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Evening Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat

Speaking for me only

I realize that I have not watched Keith Olbermann's show for a while now. I wonder if it is still the same anti-Hillary fest? I also wonder what people who have not been watching him lately who used to be regular watchers (like I once was) are watching now, if anything. Let me know what you are watching now.

This is an Open thread.

Update (TL):Comments now closed, a new open thread is up for you to continue your discussions.

< The Demographics Of The Dem Contest | Seating Delegates Not Enough, Their Votes Must Count >
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  • Display: Sort:
    If not Olbermann, what? (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:08:17 PM EST
    Not watching nuthin'.  Hanging out at TalkLeft until Jon Stewart comes on instead...

    Not watching him at all since he joined (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by athyrio on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:12:27 PM EST
    the Obama love fest...Tweety today asked the crowd who was voting for Hillary and they booed (college crowd) like a football game...It was disgusting...

    I gave up. (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by lansing quaker on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:12:55 PM EST
    I gave up on KO a long time ago.

    Then I got rid of Cable!

    I get to save money and stop pre-mature balding at the same time!

    Cable is just such a waste, and the crazy that's been going on in the cable news networks just made me stop my TV altogether.  I'd much prefer to watch a Drew Barrymore RomCom on DVD, anyhow.

    Pony joke (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by waldenpond on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:14:38 PM EST
    KO just showed Clinton doing the pony joke....

    A man walks by and sees a small boy digging in manure.  The man says 'boy, what are you doing digging in manure?' The boy says... with all the manure, I figure there must be a PONY. Obama's campaign is a new paradigm, blah, blah, blah.
    I then changed the channel as 30 seconds of positive coverage is all she gets on MSNBC in one week.  Obama's campaign is a new paradigm, blah, blah, blah.

    Ran over to Fox.  Dick Morris says Clinton can't leave because her superdelegates would go to Obama and that she's lost?  He thinks she will never be a power player, she's like Kennedy a symbol of the 'good cause' and will have difficulty getting reelected in NY if they put an AA up against her.

    OK, I did my part, now somebody cough up what was going on in places like Kos.

    For Immediate release (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by athyrio on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:17:49 PM EST
    Immediate Release: April 2, 2008 Contact: Michal Regunberg
    617-547-9525
    DEMOCRATIC WOMEN FOR VOTER PARTICIPATION
    LAUNCH SUPERDELEGATE CAMPAIGN
    TO "COUNT ALL THE VOTES"

    this is good!!!!!

    I never watched KO (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:19:07 PM EST
    because I always thought what he was doing was just as dangerous as what Limbaugh and Hannity were doing.  I don't want to sound arrogant (though I did give a speech against zealous, one-sided punditry in 2002...note to self: put that back up on my website....) but I knew that it would come back and bite us all in the butt eventually.  We always turn into the thing we most despise.

    As to what I am watching, two words: Battlestar, Baby!  Two more frackin' days!!!

    Once, I liked (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by nemo52 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:19:50 PM EST
    Olbermann's righteous anger at the Bush administration's excesses and outrages, but the schtick wore thin after 3 or 4 repetitions.  The anti-Hillary stuff turned me off so much (along with the rest of MiSogenNyBC) that I left and have never looked back.

    not watching (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by bjorn on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:20:00 PM EST
    stopped watching KO and watch local news or nothing or come here and read the great posts, like the previous one on the exit poll data. Fascinating, way better than anything Keith ever had to say.

    I also like to scan the news online. I guess I am here because KO pissed me off so bad I went looking for news in other places.  When I was watching his show I was never surfing blogs or the news online. I am still a big John Stewart fan too!


    Nope, no Olbermann (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by otherlisa on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:21:04 PM EST
    It's sad, but I'm boycotting for the duration, as I am many blogs. I don't need to name them at this point.

    I don't watch any of it anymore (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:22:03 PM EST
    I tried to switch from Olbermann to CNN, but it was only marginally less horrible so I stopped watching all cable TV news. It's so bizarre what passes for political analysis anymore. Olbermann used to try to be above the fray but he's now just the lefty mirror-image of Fox News - irrational, dishonest, biased, etc.

    I also don't read many blogs anymore. Last time I went to DKos, I ended up reading some comments that said that it would be OK to sacrifice older democrats and have them leave the party because new young ones would then take their place. This was about the anger of some democrats re: the FL/MI voters. I just can't read that naive and immature stuff anymore.

    I'm on the West Coast (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by vigkat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:22:36 PM EST
    Where Olbermann comes on at 5:00 pm and 7:00 pm.  I watch the local news.  Today, I flipped the channel and watched about two minutes of Olbermann to see if it was as bad as I recalled. Either it has continued to degrade or I have forgotten how bad it is, because it seemed worse.  He and Fineman, smugly dissing Hillary's campaign on some ground or other.  I flipped back to the local news.

    You (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:23:10 PM EST
    I am watching what you and Jeralyn are reporting. I loved Keith, but no more.

    On the lighter side, got my usual DNC call, nope nope nope. Got my DNC your membership has lapsed card in the mail. Gee, they have a self addressed stamped envelope. I will have to send my 2 cents worth in with usual remarks. A nice lady called to ask if I was planning on voting for Hillary. She was happy to hear yes. A Britany type called and wanted me to support Barrack. Nope on that. I mean, who needs Keith when you have a phone around election time in Penna.

    no more KO (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Kensdad on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:24:50 PM EST
    i'm done with olbermann...  i used to watch him every night, but never again.

    thank goodness it's baseball season!  go Mets!

    Stopped watching Olbermann (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by kenoshaMarge on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:30:40 PM EST
    a long time ago. Someone with a giant head sitting there making adolescent insults about another giant head is not my idea of something worthy of my time.

    I spend more time reading. Working my way through Marion Zimmer Bradley for about the fourth time with Anne McCaffrey waiting in the wings and Katherine Kerr to follow.

    I Stopped Watching MSNBC a While Ago (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by NOBAMA08 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:30:45 PM EST
    I rarely watch cable news anymore. If I do it is FOX but still rarely, probably once or twice each week. I have stopped reading NYTimes political caucs blog and their columnists except for Paul Krugman.

    Now I get my political news on blogs: Talk Left, Taylor Marsh, No Quarter, Anglachel's Journal, The Confluence, etc. And the Colbert Report and the Daily Show is still good to watch.

    old politics (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by hughman on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:31:29 PM EST
    now i'm an old man (i'm 46) but have always been interested in politics.

    this may come as a shock to some of the obamaites ( and some of the clintonites) but there was a time when NOONE knew the outcome of the nomination before the convention, watching it on TV was like watching the Miss America Pagent where the outcome was a mystery until the states announced their delegate count.

    no one was panicking. no one was all atwitter, it was the way a campaign was held. people were allowed to make a choice when they made it.

    the election is held in November, not now. we should all be allowed to weigh our decision until we actually step in a booth and vote.

    I haven't watched (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Coldblue on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:32:40 PM EST
    Olbermann since his 'special comment' on Hillary.

    Let me guess: he has Fineman, Wolffe, and Milbank on, right?

    Only KO's I'm looking at these days (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:33:14 PM EST
    belong in baseball. Heard there was a game or 2 on  ;)

    I no longer watch MSNBC (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by IKE on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:34:42 PM EST
    Their ratings must be taken a nose dive because I don't know why anyone would watch that network anymore. Chris Matthews, Keith Olberman, Idiot shuster and the rest are so anti-hillary that I get sick every time I watch that channel. If they were to come out and publicly endorse Obama instead of pretending as if they are neutral than perhaps I might watch them. Craig Crawford the only fair guy on that network no longer appears. Maybe he's sick of MSNBC crap just like every body else.

    Olbermann (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by disappointed on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:40:11 PM EST
    I agree with Dr. Molly above.  I do not watch anymore.  I stopped watching after New Hampshire.  I have stopped reading most of the opinion section of the NY Times for the same reason.  I had liked Altercation, but many of his respondents make digs at Hillary.  Yesterday,  with great disappointment I  read Digby lauding some female blogger who likens Hillary to Nixon.  Today, Atrios/Eshaton was my sorrow as he buys in to Josh Marshall's belief that Hillary is unelectable.  As I wrote once before, I feel abandoned by the left and center-left that I have supported since McGovern.

    used to be addicted. never watch it (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by neilario on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:40:16 PM EST
    He just disgusts me now. I had high hopes that his show would have been a place where issues could be discussed. but when he started the mad obama love it just got embarrassing.
    so - i went from religious daily dvr-ing to never.. and sometimes just to really kill his ratings i pop up billo on mute.

    i feel truly sorry for him in his newfound egotism and obama-mania

    I too quit KO (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by xrayvision on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:40:58 PM EST
    I thought I was all alone. I have all but given up on MSNBC. As much as it pains me, I actually now watch more FOX News than anything. MSNBC and KO are ridiculous!

    I, too, have taken KO off the (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by leis on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:41:46 PM EST
    DVR. No more, can't stomach the leading questions and smirk.  The television is usually on Comedy Central or Discovery, Nat Geo.  All my news is from the blogs and Charlie Rose.  I don't see myself returning either.

    Used to be one of KOs biggest fans (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by rockinrocknroll on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:42:44 PM EST
    But I quit watching Countdown for obvious reasons in late Feb. I watched again for the first time on Sunday night, but it was the same old "Clinton sucks! Obama is a saint!" stuff. I don't think I even made it through the full hour. I will not be watching anything KO does indefinitely.

    Don't watch Keith (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:44:31 PM EST
    or any other cable news, talking head, yada-yada.  I save 'teh teevee' for my mental comfort food/mindless entertainment (DWTS, American Idol).  History, Discovery, National Geographic Channel... Or I toss the ball for the dogs for their exercise, discipline,  affection (thanks, Cesar).

    I got a kick out of this article in TVByTheNumbers regarding Olbermann's Sunday night NETWORK special.  

    Link

    Apparently, not only did 60 Minutes beat him, America's Top Model and a repeat of King of the Hill also beat him in the 18-49 demo!  LOL! (although Keith beat the two in total numbers).  Keith always talks about how the demo is more important than the total numbers, so this should have left him scurrying off with pompous tail betwixt legs.

    • Ha by litigatormom, 04/02/2008 07:47:13 PM EST (5.00 / 1)
    I actually went through withdrawal (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Lil on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:44:32 PM EST
    when I deleted KO from DVR. Thankfully the Mets are back, but on the news front I try to catch a little of Rachel Maddow, even though she's on MSNBC. I think she's in Obama's camp, but I can take it from her because she's not nuts, and extremely well informed. Hard to know when she is on, however. Her radio show is good too.

    I appear to be the only person (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:46:02 PM EST
    actually watching KO.  He's still paying tribute to himself, by running more prior commentary.  I've learned two things: KO used to be thinner, and he used to be better.

    I am now returning control of my teevee to me.  Almost time to watch American Idol results with my 14 year old (hey, a mom will do almost anything to be able to curl up with her teenager on the sofa).  

    All of you with little ones -- do not miss any opportunity to curl up with them now.  Later on it becomes a rare treat.  Not because they no longer love you.  It's just that parents become...embarassing.

    Problems with Olbermann (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by lentinel on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:51:25 PM EST
    I of course enjoyed when Keith would go after Bush.

    My reservations about him stemmed from:

    1.  He uses Edward R. Murrow's sign off without crediting him.
    2.  When he does an impression of O'Reilly, it is really of the character "Ted Baxter" created by Ted Knight - and sounds nothing like O'Reilly.

    3.  He uses "Sir" when addressing his criticisms to Bush.
    4.  He is very scripted and rarely speaks spontaneously. Edward R. Murrow spoke in a manner that was much more direct.

    So now all the love and money that was laid on him has gone to his head. The flaws that were apparent before all the money and recognition poured in have now blossomed into one gigantic enormous ego in full bloom.

    It's always best to pay attention to red flags.

    Olbermann Jumped the Shark (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by Garbo on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:52:01 PM EST
    Olbermann jumped the shark the day he attacked Hillary with one of his special comments.  

    My evening routine for the past several years was to come home from work and watch Countdown which I taped each day on my DVR.  I'd been a fan of Keith's since his show debuted (although I never liked the fluffy stuff and I especially didn't like the "Keeping Tabs", gossip, waste of time segment).

    I couldn't even bring myself to listen to his Hillary bashing special comment.  I stopped taping his show the night of the comment, went through about a week of withdrawals and now I take my pooch for a walk each night instead and I feel great!

    I was also a devoted DKos and TPM reader and I've kicked those habits as well.  

    Thank goodness for Talk Left, My DD, No Quarter, Taylor Marsh, etc. - I love you guys!

       

    • MyDD NG (mostly) by pluege, 04/02/2008 08:20:24 PM EST (none / 0)
      • Banned by waldenpond, 04/02/2008 08:41:17 PM EST (none / 0)
      • You're right ... by Garbo, 04/02/2008 08:59:13 PM EST (none / 0)
    Even before the primary, when he was (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by WillBFair on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:55:51 PM EST
    trashing Bush, I thought his talks were weak, full of insults and shallow perspectives. I think NBC is owned by GE and other defense contractors. So of course they're promoting public ignorance. Bottom line: Olberman is not a liberal, but he plays one on TV. There's really nowhere to go these days. The war and oil industries have put a hammerlock on pretty much the entire media. Even The New Yorker slams Hillary and does puff pieces on Obama. It use to be so charming and refined. No more. Now the writing is dumber than a box of rocks, and so vulgar you think it's published from Orange County. So I'm back on Tolkien. The spinmeisters can't ruin the classics.
    http://a-civilife.blogspot.com

    I've been watching Food Network (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by macwiz12 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:05:08 PM EST
    When the Food Network changed their schedule to put "Good Eats" in the same slot as "Countdown" I was sad. My two favorites were up against each other. I never did like the focus on celebrities and "American Idol" but lived with it. When KO went off on Clinton, I stopped watching. I was reading his book which I did finish. While it was interesting to read some of the special comments I had missed, I found "The Assault on Reason" by Al Gore more penetrating,

    Tonight there were two "Good Eats" in the 8-9 time slot, an interesting one on pasta and another on ravioli.

    what is sad is the untrue propaganda being (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by athyrio on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:14:35 PM EST
    spread by Olberman and others now, and that will always make Obama an illegit nominee to me...He hasn't won fair and square and I would bet alot of this country feels the same way if he wins...

    TiVoed Stewart and Colbert (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:19:43 PM EST
    from the previous night.  I used to watch those after Olbermann.  Now I can get to bed an hour earlier.  It's all for the best.  I only half-enjoyed Olbermann's show anyway, even when I watched it.

    I would say (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by Oje on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:22:48 PM EST
    The three hours of tweety, Olbermann, and Abrams is increasingly lamentable imho (though, tweety is more execrable than lamentable after 10+ years on MSNBC).

    I also tuned into the Stephanie Miller show for 5 minutes yesterday--for the first time in over one month. The first caller she took wanted to share the sudden realization she had about Clinton's distinction between big states and little states: that "ignores half the voters," the caller marveled. This of course has been an Obama talking point since February, so apparently this caller hibernates during the winter months.

    I turned off the radio and enjoyed the soft sounds of wind rushing over the windshield--and pondered how long a community of people can persist by repeating the same three lines about unity ponies, monsters, and red states before they collectively lapse into a catatonic state...

    Fox Commentary (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:31:15 PM EST
    A small preview of what the Fox/Right wing has planned for Obama.  Hillary had nothing to do with this, it's all Obama's doing.  

    What I find interesting is the "good guy" and "new politics" persona is falling apart.  

    I've KO'd KO (5.00 / 1) (#234)
    by scorbs on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:32:43 PM EST
    Turned him off three months ago and have been boycotting NBC and MSNBC.  Refuse to turn them on.  This is roughly about when he began taking sides in the race; it is not his place to take sides.  He's supposed to be a journalist.  Turned off to Matthews long before that -- won't watch him at all.  Unfortunately it's spilled over to my NBC watching.  I used to religiously watch NBC news local and national.  Now can't stomach that whole network.

    oops - it's newsvips.com and follow directions to (5.00 / 1) (#237)
    by suzieg on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:40:24 AM EST
    become one of their news vips.

    If I were feeling masochistic. . . (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:20:06 PM EST
    Or I could read more WWTSBQ at dkos.

    • What does this acronym mean? by litigatormom, 04/02/2008 07:23:06 PM EST (5.00 / 1)
      • ummm by andgarden, 04/02/2008 07:29:44 PM EST (5.00 / 4)
        • Ah by litigatormom, 04/02/2008 07:36:22 PM EST (5.00 / 2)
    Hillary is great - but Obama is winning! (none / 0) (#11)
    by MSS on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:21:25 PM EST
    I like Hillary Clinton a lot. But I do not agree that she's being trashed (any more than Barack Obama is being trashed); and I do not agree that she is the better or more qualified candidate.

    This is not about race or gender, in my opinion:  I think that Barack Obama is winning because he is the better candidate for the times!

    Hillary is very smart; Barack is very smart. Hillary has great positions (some better than others); Barack has great positions (some better than others). Hillary is better on health care; Barack is better on getting out of Iraq. Hillary is running a decent campaign; Barack is running a better campaign (50 state focus, ground-up organizing, very good email campaign, terriffic fundraising).

    But the clincher is that Barack Obama is inspiring. He can inspire us to think about the world in a different way, and to take the difficult steps to make changes in the next administration.

    Will it be hard for him to win? Sure. Same with Hillary.

    I'm ready to fight for Barack (and for Hillary if she should win). But I'm inspired to work for Barack and for change.

    I was dutifully observing (none / 0) (#12)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:22:01 PM EST
    my nightly KO boycott, but when I saw this open thread I figured, maybe I can get through it with company.  Earlier, when I had turned the teevee on, Softballs had come up with Tweety fawning all over Obama. "Sen. Barata, er, Obama [yes, he really made that mistake], do you think the Clinton campaignis playing dog whistle politics by constanting referring to your former pastor."  Obama, to his credit, said no, because what Rev. Wright said was offensive.  But when Tweety said, how come you never left, Obama went back to his stock "I never heard him say the stuff on that tape...endless loop of the worst things he's said over a 30 year career..."  Tweety didn't challenge him on that.

    So, like I said, after a little channel flipping, I turned off the teevee to observe the nightly KO boycott.  By the time I turned KO on in response to this open thread, Howard Fineman was just winding up something about how Clinton can't get more superdelegates.  Then they segued into a dump on McCain.  How refreshing!  Dumping on the Rethugs!  Aw'right!  

    I wonder if the next segment will go back to harrumphing about Hillary's refusal to crawl under a rock and die.

    Yankees! (none / 0) (#18)
    by AmyinSC on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:23:59 PM EST
    Right now, I'm watching the Yanks play!  And I was a very faithful KO watcher until abt 2 months ago.  Then, he and Rachel Maddow drank the Kool Aide, and I took him off my DVR.  So, college basketball for a while, now baseball, fill that slot (except for the very funny shows on CBS on Mon., especially Big Bang Theory - freakin' hilarious!).

    KO tolerable at the moment (none / 0) (#26)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:29:15 PM EST
    We're on the "Bushed!" segment.

    Domestic infiltration of U.S. activist groups finally discontinued.

    Lincoln Chafee's new book quotes Vice President Cheney saying in 2000 that the new administration was not bound by stuff they had to say to get elected.

    Study shows that most dangerous nation in the Middle East is...Saudi Arabia.

    Well, at least it was a few minutes of no Clinton-dumping.

    I was never a regular viewer (none / 0) (#37)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:33:43 PM EST
    of KO.  Even when I agreed with his opinions, I always found him hard to watch.  Countdown is too much of an echo chamber.  It must be at least six or eight months since I've tuned in.  

    For a couple of years, from 2005 up till this election season, I watched a lot of CNN, particularly AC360, but no more.  I've watched all of the debates and much of the primary coverage, but I avoid the pundits like the plague.    

    Now I mostly watch Netflix rentals as I wait for my favorite TV shows to come back after the writers' strike.  Oh, and I sometimes watch TDS and TCR.  But most of the time, I'm checking out my favorite blogs, like this one.  ;)  Needless to say, my bookmarks are a lot different than they were a few months ago.

    law and order reruns (none / 0) (#41)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:34:06 PM EST


    Can't figure out why so many (none / 0) (#77)
    by oculus on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:51:00 PM EST
    who purport to detest Olbermann always seem to watch him.  

    I don't have cable. (none / 0) (#115)
    by honora on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:03:34 PM EST
    Not having cable, I never watched MSNBC or CNN.  I did watch Comedy Central on line, but not anymore.  My problem is that I like to have a 'news' homepage.  I started w/ CNN, then MSNBC, ABC...now I am on CBS and I hate it.  Any suggestions on a homepage that will not drive my to drink??

    • Go Beeb. by andgarden, 04/02/2008 08:05:58 PM EST (none / 0)
    • good homepage by Kathy, 04/02/2008 08:08:53 PM EST (none / 0)
    My most favorite thread all week (none / 0) (#125)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:08:31 PM EST
    Awhile back Jeralyn posted a thread about what people were doing when there wasn't anything on to watch.  I had been making jewelry, just for myself.  I threw all the jewelry making stuff into a roughtote yesterday morning.  The HBO series John Adams started and I missed one episode last week.  I needed to catch up on Sunday night so that meant two episodes totaling up to three hours.  But Showtime's The Tudors was starting it's new season as well on Sunday night and I felt I needed to watch the last episode of last season to remember where I left off. They played it before the new season episode and that meant two hours.  At 1:00 am on Monday morning I'm still sitting in the livingroom peering at the screen.  Anybody else watching John Adams and laughing their butt off too that when it comes to being a licentious pig Bill Clinton couldn't even  hold a candle to Benjamin Franklin?  Benjamin Franklin won France over using only his glands ;)  When Dexter starts I pray that John Adams is over or on Monday morning at dawn I'll still be sitting there peering at the screen and looking pretty stale.

    I really like Campbell Brown doing (none / 0) (#143)
    by halstoon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:15:52 PM EST
    "Election Center." She does a good job of getting at the real issues without wearing her ideology on her sleeve. Right now it seems MSNBC=Obama, FOX=GOP and CNN is for those who really enjoy an honest debate. Anderson Cooper is pretty vanilla, and Brown and Erica Hill are quality reporters, imo.

    Technically not an Obama campaign event (none / 0) (#149)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:18:54 PM EST
    Tweety was doing his "College Tour" thing and had Obama for his whole hour at a college in Penn.

    What I'm watching instead of KO (none / 0) (#167)
    by pedagog on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:28:17 PM EST
    Frankly, I'm watching NY Yankees baseball--much more entertaining!

    No longer watch MSNBC (none / 0) (#182)
    by riverbird on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:37:20 PM EST
    I never turn to MSNBC anymore -- too many bags of toxic gas, including Keith Olbermann.  For cable news I watch CNN. Sadly, even FoxNews is less biased than MSNBC these days.

    I figure if the MSM is trying so hard to sell me (none / 0) (#185)
    by athyrio on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:37:48 PM EST
    Obama, I won't buy it because they are owned by the corporations....Makes ya wonder why they are trying so hard to push Obama.....LOL....

    Strategic Voting for Republicans (none / 0) (#204)
    by foobar417 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:52:02 PM EST
    I was asked on an earlier thread and told I could discuss it here:

    dk asked:
    I'm curious.  You say that voting in the Republican primary was a "reasonable strategy at the time."  What strategy are you talking about?  I mean, I can see how refusing to vote in the Democratic primary would have been a reasonable option for an Obama or Edwards supporter, but in what way did voting in the Republican primary help either one of them?

    My response:
    I'm a liberal Democrat. I live in Ann Arbor, with lots of other liberal Democrats. Every other house in the neighborhood (exaggerating only somewhat) has an Impeach Bush/Cheney sign. My point being that this was an area with lots of likely Democratic voters come November who are politically engaged and committed to ending the Republican dominance of our national politics.

    I found there was a lot of discussion at work, with other parents, etc. about what to do in the election in January. Among those Democrats I talked to, I heard seven common strategies before the primary election:

    1. I'm voting for Clinton because I prefer her as a candidate.
    2. I'm voting for Clinton because she's the only Democratic candidate named on the ballot, I always vote, and I could never vote for a Republican. (I also heard folks saying that they didn't want to vote undecided because they disliked Obama / or Edwards and didn't want the undecideds choosing if the election came down to Obama vs. Edwards.)
    3. I'm voting undecided because I favor Obama or Edwards.
    4. I'm voting for Undecided, even though I favor Clinton, because this election is a crock and I want to send a message to the state Democratic party.
    5. I'm not voting because this election is a crock and I want to send a message to the state Democratic party.
    6. I'm voting for Romney because my vote in the Democratic primary doesn't count. I'm picking Romney to get the weakest Republican candidate in November / to maximize the chance of the Democratic candidate winning the presidency. (I'd call this the tactical Democrat strategy.)
    7. I'm voting for McCain because my vote in the Democratic primary doesn't count. I'm picking McCain because he's the least bad of the viable Republican candidates and, if the Democratic candidate loses in November, I'd like the most palatable Republican president for the next 4 years. (I'd call this the loyal American strategy.)

    While I've since read on many blogs (pro-Clinton and pro-Obama) that "everyone knew that the delegation would be counted", I certainly didn't find that to be the case. Most people were just upset that the election was an apparent crock.

    Likewise, I heard absolutely ZERO discussion of the possibility that "you should not vote Republican because there might be a revote in the Democratic party and then you couldn't participate in the revote."

    Sure, you could argue that a truly smart voter would have thought through these contingencies, made a decision, and must now suffer the consequences. However, I certainly saw a lot of Democrats coming to different decisions, and I'd hesitate strongly before disenfranchising any of them. Note, most of the voting strategies might seem to favor proponents of one of the three Democrats, but there were folks drawn from all 3 camps for every strategy but #1 and #3.

    So, returning to the original question, why vote in the Republican primary?

    If you felt like the Democratic vote was a waste and if you had no idea there could be a revote, then there were two good reasons to vote Republican in the primary, even if you had every intention of voting for the Democratic candidate in November. The two strategies were at odds with each other, but both had merits. A reasonable percentage of the "loyal Democrats" (10%? I'm not sure if I actually read that somewhere or am confusing it with another factoid) chose to vote in the Democratic primary. I would think it likely that most were Obama or Edwards supporters, but we don't know that for sure.

    The problem is that there is no way to figure out where these people would have voted given a full slate of choices. You can't distinguish them from true Republicans without giving those true Republicans the ability to make mischief in a Democratic primary.

    Basically, there's no way to fix it now that isn't unfair to some fraction of the likely Democratic voters in November. So, saying that "Michigan voters will be upset if their preference isn't represented at the convention" is true. However, this does not lead to the conclusion we should either ratify the existing election as if it represented the real view of the voters or revote with participants in the Republican party included / excluded. In fact, any of the proposed solutions that purport to represent the will of the electorate will disenfranchise some fraction of the Democratic electorate. They are all unfair to someone. Not allowing the Michigan Democratic delegation to vote has the advantage of being fair (or equally unfair) to all candidates. All of the other solutions are unfair to some subset of the candidates, IMO.

    Hope that answers the question.

    My faves have been off for months (none / 0) (#207)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:54:55 PM EST
    I want Cane, Shark, 24, Gray's Anatomy and Brothers & Sisters back. Even Desperate Housewives. Medium is okay.  I even watched Cashmere Mafia and just as I started getting into they pulled it. I tried Lipstick Jungle but couldn't get into it.

    I watched Gone Baby Gone this week, that was actually pretty good.

    I wonder how David Gregory's new MSNBC show will be.  He used to guest host for Geraldo when he had Rivera Live and it was always fun to be a guest on the show with him hosting. He's a very nice guy. He was in Denver to cover the McVeigh trial and ended up marrying one of the lead prosecutors on the case. They have 3 kids now, I'll bet she's glad he'll be off the campaign trail and home in DC a lot more.

    Question- is there going to be another (none / 0) (#218)
    by kenosharick on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:04:53 PM EST
    debate? I have not heard anything and I thought there would be one soon.

    No KO anymore. pretty much no English TV at all (none / 0) (#221)
    by LCaution on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:06:57 PM EST
    I discovered KO early in his anti-Bush phase & was impressed (also liked the "Worst Person in the World"), but then he got addicted to his Special Comments - so they weren't so special anymore & deteriorated in quality. Then he joined the Hillary Haters.

    So: no KO, no MSNBC, no CNN, no ABC, CBS, or NBC.

    I've also had to stop reading my so-called liberal mags. Newsweek has turned into a combo of Christian Monthly & ObamaWeek. So, I get the basic news from NPR and the WSJ's front page (not yet touched too much by Murdoch).

    As for TV: 5 Spanish language networks, RAI and TV5. If there is anything earth shattering, it will be on one of those (often before it hits English-language news).

    Stewart on the 'Clinton should quit' theme (none / 0) (#226)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:16:08 PM EST
    Just watched last night's 'Daily Show' and they have a great montage of all the 'Clinton should get out', and 'she's destroying the party' clips from the news shows.  Glad to see he makes them look very silly

    So...BTD (none / 0) (#231)
    by kredwyn on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:27:26 PM EST
    How was Keith?
    "Wit has truth in it; wisecracking is simply calisthenics with words." Dorothy Parker