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Weds. Afternoon Open Thread: San Quentin

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:39:14 PM EST
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I'm on a lunch break and due back in court this afternoon. Here's an open thread, led by Johnny Cash singing at San Quentin, home to more than 600 death row inmates. More on life and waiting for death at San Quentin here.

You can read how they kill inmates here. How unfortunate the Supreme Court didn't agree, You wouldn't do a dog this way.

A quote from today's Supreme Court opinion in Baze v. Rees is below.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome. I'll be back for tonight's Hilllary-Obama debate.

Moreover, 23 States, including Kentucky, bar veterinarians from using a neuromuscular paralytic agent like pancuronium bromide, either expressly or, like Kentucky, by specifically directing the use of a drug like sodium pentobarbital....If pancuronium is too cruel for animals, the argument goes, then it must be too cruel for the condemned inmate. Whatever rhetorical force the argument carries, ... it overlooks the States’ legitimate interest in providing for a quick, certain death....[V]eterinary practice for animals is not an appropriate guide to humane practices for humans.

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    Weds. Afternoon Open Thread: San Quentin | 240 comments (240 topical)
    The Daily Show (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by cannondaddy on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:52:22 PM EST
    I know a lot of you have sworn off The Daily Show.  Here's their take on "Bittergate" if you are interested.  

    Funny (none / 0) (#116)
    by magster on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:01:37 PM EST
    "Just what we need, a President who caves in to peer pressure."

    I'd call it responsive to her constituency.

    [ Parent ]

    It think Jon Stewart has been relatively (none / 0) (#160)
    by Joelarama on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:31:12 PM EST
    unbiased as between Hillary and Obama, so I haven't sworn off The Daily Show.

    Unlike Air America, Stephanie Miller, and Keith Olbermann.

    Note to Hillary folks: even if you've been excommunicated from the Big Orange, consider going over there at least to update your personal blogrolls to include all the pro-Hillary and fair-to-Hillary blogs that we've grown to love.

    [ Parent ]

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by lambert on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:38:17 PM EST
    Not a bad idea.

    While I'm at it, I might carry through on my plan to delete all my content, which was all cross-posted anyhow, and replace it with as many links to the original as are needed for the system not to complain...

    [ Parent ]

    Better to let them remember (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:41:25 PM EST
    that someone who was a productive member of the community is gone.

    [ Parent ]
    Then I'd have to log on (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:46:34 PM EST
    I actually wrote a GBCW diary just so that I'd be too embarrassed to ever post there again. It was my most commented diary (out of 4 I'd written in 5 years). That place is poison for the soul.  I look back at my time there and think of it like a formerly good relationship that went on way too long after it went bad. You can't go back. Or, at least, sometimes you shouldn't.

    [ Parent ]
    I just faded away (5.00 / 2) (#191)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:51:41 PM EST
    but yes, I agree that it has all the hallmarks of a bad relationship.

    [ Parent ]
    I wrote a TTFN diary... (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by kredwyn on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:52:43 PM EST
    then never published it. It just seemed easier to wander off into the wilds for a while...and maybe wander back sometime after Denver.

    I do miss some of the people over there...but I don't need the headaches I was getting.
    "Wit has truth in it; wisecracking is simply calisthenics with words." Dorothy Parker
    [ Parent ]

    I think I won't be going back (5.00 / 3) (#196)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:57:43 PM EST
    No matter what happens, I just don't respect a lot of people there anymore. I have no desire to chat with them anymore.

    [ Parent ]
    I Won't Be Going Back (5.00 / 3) (#207)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:05:50 PM EST
    Lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned when the FP posts (including Kos) started making stuff up just to feed the frenzy of Hillary hatred. It is hard to distinguish it from Little Green Footballs.

    [ Parent ]
    It's easy to distinguish them. (none / 0) (#210)
    by MarkL on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:10:38 PM EST
    The LGF guy is tons smarter than Kos.

    [ Parent ]
    Actually, what really (none / 0) (#212)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:11:00 PM EST
    convinced me to leave was when one FPer tried to tell me that there was some difference between dkos and Free Republic. As soon as it sunk in that there really wasn't, I was gone.

    [ Parent ]
    Wow (none / 0) (#227)
    by Joelarama on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:25:30 PM EST
    Now that is hilarious/sad.

    Daily Kos is Free Republic with fancy graphics.  And McJoan.  I miss her.

    [ Parent ]

    I really miss mcjoan too (5.00 / 1) (#230)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:28:20 PM EST
    but she's on a very short list. . .

    [ Parent ]
    She did an interview with G Greenwald (5.00 / 1) (#233)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:32:15 PM EST
    You can check his site to find the link.

    [ Parent ]
    I Agree On McJoan (5.00 / 1) (#243)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:53:04 PM EST
    I will miss her and a few others but not enough to go back and support the site even with occasional hits. Once I can't trust what is said, it no longer has value to me.

    [ Parent ]
    I like the community diaries. (none / 0) (#213)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:11:28 PM EST
    And go back specifically for them.

    But campaign diaries and the commenters in them are just too much.  People taking Unity and Change as certainties instead of campaign rhetoric AND being deliberately nasty to Clinton at every opportunity -  there is just nothing to discuss with them except how awful Hillary is and how totally awesome Barack is.

    There used to be positive fluff diaries like Edwards Evening News Roundup that made the rec list every day.  Now, at least one dKos SMASH Clinton! diary makes the rec list every day.    

    [ Parent ]

    If it were just a few diaries or people (5.00 / 1) (#218)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:14:53 PM EST
    I wouldn't mind. But now the problem is with people I used to respect. No more.

    [ Parent ]
    I can't separate that much (5.00 / 1) (#220)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:17:19 PM EST
    Going to Daily Kos the way it is right now is like visiting a party where everybody is standing around with a drink in their hand chatting while a crowd of people defecate in the middle of the floor.

    [ Parent ]
    I despised the candidate fluff diaries on the rec (none / 0) (#221)
    by Joelarama on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:17:30 PM EST
    list.  Waste of valuable space.

    But that's just me.  The inaccurate and infammatory attack diaries on the rec list are the real abomination.  It used to be a Democratic site.

    As for the community diaries, I stopped going.  Back when MSOC kept talking about Kos benefiting from others' genius, I thought it was just whining.  I'm shocked that I agree with her now.

    He gets no hits from me.  The blogroll thing is my one exception.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, remember (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:20:10 PM EST
    on a site like Daily Kos, you are the product.

    I think of it as a radio station that changed formats.

    [ Parent ]

    Format change - very apropos. (5.00 / 1) (#232)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:31:16 PM EST
    There's a cycle in our regional radio.  Every X many months, all the minor stations shift formats to try to grab another 0.5% of the market share.  I'll hit a preset station and suddenly I'll be listening to romantic pop instead of country.

    Not sure how long the blogs can hold onto this new format with their market shares drying up.

    [ Parent ]

    I was planning to wander and then come back. (5.00 / 3) (#201)
    by Joelarama on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:00:05 PM EST
    That changed when many front page posters went over the edge, and then finally when Kos made it quite clear he felt that Hillary was entitled to no fairness or accuracy, and that her supporters were entitled to no respect.

    [ Parent ]
    You mean when he decided that... (5.00 / 1) (#217)
    by dianem on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:14:05 PM EST
    ...fellow Democrats and former friends were entitled to no fairness or accuracy, don't you? It wasn't just Clinton he trashed. Everybody who supported her, or even just didn't join in ridiculing her, was treated like dirt. He did nothing to control it, in fact he threw gas on the flames. He could have set standards for decency, but he chose a different path. His site is now a magnet for overgrown adolescents who simply want to talk trash. A few grown-ups hang around, either because they are blindly loyal, totally oblivious or think they look cool and hip hanging around with the kids (they don't - the kids make fun of them behind their backs). Markos will make a fortune in ad revenue - that high impact 18-30 demographic. Integrity be damned. He has a family to feed.  

    [ Parent ]
    Wonder 'bout that demo, post-election (5.00 / 3) (#244)
    by rghojai on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:57:51 PM EST
    A passing curiosity about how many of the relatively new and young will stick around after the election. On some not-my-better-self level, there's a hope that they don't stick around and the adults don't come back....

     Several months ago, a not-trivial number of us over there were expressing concerns about the tone, approach, etc., relative to Clinton and otherwise. Am far from the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I've some experience with online communities and it didn't feel hard to see where things looked to be going. Heck (ironically enough), Obama told people to chill; Olbermann told people to chill.

    At the time, it felt cynical to think there might be a desire to go down the ugly road for pageviews, attracting people/those who fit a demographic. Now, given that those thoughts and concerns were roundly ignored and at times dismissed in a way that was far from pleasant, it feels naive to have thought otherwise.

    I do wander by once in while to glance at the FP, but what ended any significant interaction was Markos relating that it was open season on HRC because the race was over, she was damaging the party, etc. Felt like that was simply insulting people's intelligence. It was abundantly clear that, for many a month, that tone and approach had been there in a pretty big way. Felt like the justification was far from honest.

    [ Parent ]

    I understand. It's been good for me, (none / 0) (#194)
    by Joelarama on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:56:54 PM EST
    because it made me discover how many great blogs there are out there.  DKos is a one-note time suck.

    It might be worth it just to log in and change your blog entries -- it at least increases the chances they will be displayed on the randomized front-page user blogroll.

    Anglachel, Corrente, NYCweboy, Riverdaughter, Shakesville, Mad Kane, Howling Latina, Tom Watson, Suburban Guerrilla, No More Apples, Reclusive Leftist, Blue Lyon, Sugar & Spice, EENR Blog . . . not all of these are new by any stretch, but I ignored them before and have come to appreciate them, especially the diversity of perspective.

    Any others?


    [ Parent ]

    Hillary Clinton at Wake Forest Friday (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:53:34 PM EST
    I think I'm gonna live-blog her stop here at Wake on Friday night at 6. It's supposed to be a major campaign stop, and it's first come first serve for us students, so I'll get there around 2PM just to get a good seat. Surprisingly, our campus is not very abuzz about this yet. Obama has had a student group here since last August, and he's still the only one with a student group.

    In other news, I think I'm starting to see Obama's PA strategy unfold, and that is in one word, Pittsburgh. I've gotten three campaign emails in the last two days asking me to call voters in Pittsburgh, come to Pittsburgh, apply for student staff in Pittsburgh, etc. It seems like Obama thinks he has a lot to gain there since he isn't polling well in Pitt, and it's a major metropolitan area. Springsteen endorsed him today, which, if it's gonna help anywhere, will probably help in Pittsburgh--a place Springsteen has helped specifically through charity over the past two decades. Anyone else think he has anything to gain there?

    There are a lot of big colleges in Pittsburgh.... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:08:16 PM EST
    ...he's probably hoping for big turnouts from Pitt, Carnegie Mellon, and Duquesne.

    [ Parent ]
    Pittsburgh (none / 0) (#29)
    by CST on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:26:21 PM EST
    This city is a bit of an anomaly.  It's in Pennsylvania, so people out west consider it the "east coast".  However, it's also 30 min from West Virginia and about 45 from Ohio.  Lots of colleges, hospitals, and a fledgling tech industry.  Also a ton of blue-collar former steel workers.  I say it's a toss up, but I expect Hillary to pull out of it.  I hate to say it, but having lived there, in this case I may agree with Ed Rendell that they aren't ready to elect a black president.  That's not the reason Hillary will win, but it will play a part in the spread.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree. (none / 0) (#33)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:32:25 PM EST
    And I think that Pittsburgh and the turnout in Philadelphia will decide the winner of this race. Clinton certainly does have the upper hand here, but if Obama can make in-roads in Pittsburgh between now and April 22, then I think he has a shot. He set himself back in that part of the state more than anywhere else, but it also seems to be where he has the most to gain. I think the city as a whole might go for Obama by a few points, but it probably won't be enough for him to carry the state.

    [ Parent ]
    BREAKING!! (none / 0) (#226)
    by Josey on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:25:05 PM EST
    I just read an ABC News transcript and Obama won the debate tonight!
    Just giving you a heads up.
    ;>

    [ Parent ]
    He was brilliant!!!! (none / 0) (#231)
    by Marvin42 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:28:48 PM EST
    He was forced to go on the attack by that vicious other candidate, what's her name, and he did it while uniting the audience. And his plans, they were so brilliant the republicans in house and senate changed parties!

    And red states, they are now all adopting gay marriage laws.

    He is neat! :)

    [ Parent ]

    subtle texting.. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by TalkRight on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 01:58:57 PM EST
    Obama's just announced new delegate supporter joined Obama campaign manager David Plouffe on a media call to announce their support.
    Price: "He is in the strongest position to announce to the world and to execute a new day in American diplomacy"

    Obama himself with Philly Jewish Community and said:
    "That kind of blunt talk is something I can deliver with more credibility than some other presidents might."

    In the media I hear it, Oh!! he can bring the world together, or close the racial divide better than anyone else...

    Well.. can anyone of them tell us why? I understand that he CAN, but I don't understand his WHY he is in better position THAN anyone ELSE .. because all the ones who attempted to tell why are either banished or stereotyped as racist!!

    A Question I Have (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Athena on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:22:52 PM EST
    The Auchi party at Rezko's:

    Why is Obama - the Senate candidate - going to ANY party for a convicted criminal? (Auchi's conviction in November, 2003 - party in April, 2004).

    [ Parent ]

    It was a staff mistake.... (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:46:42 PM EST
    ...they forgot to tell him. They also forgot to tell him that he went.

    [ Parent ]
    Except wheen the pronouncers are from his camp (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Just another person on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:46:56 PM EST
    Remember Kerry and McCaskill? Their comments were by far the most embarrassingly racial comments I've heard this campaign (after Geoff Davis') - but apparently it was ok, coz they're on Obama's side.

    [ Parent ]
    Kerry endorsed Obama because he's black (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Josey on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:10:37 PM EST
    "He has the ability to help us bridge the divide of religious extremism," Kerry said. "To maybe even give power to moderate Islam to be able to stand up against this radical misinterpretation of a legitimate religion."

    Kerry was asked what gives Obama that credibility.

    "Because he's African-American. Because he's a black man. Who has come from a place of oppression and repression through the years in our own country."
    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/kerry-obama-cou.html

    [ Parent ]

    But (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Just another person on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:11:37 PM EST
    we're not allowed to imply that that's why he won in SC. Whatever.

    [ Parent ]
    Hawaii, where Obama came from (none / 0) (#195)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:57:30 PM EST
    is a place of oppression?  Always looked multicultural and lovely to me.  

    Who knew?  Well, scratch Honolulu, too.  Another racist he**hole and not a paradise, after all.

    [ Parent ]

    Over Confidence? (none / 0) (#143)
    by TalkRight on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:20:08 PM EST
    Obama's Over Confidence?
    He said this today to Jewish community:

    And let me make one last point about the comparison to McGovern and Dukakis, both excellent men, but I'm a pretty darn good politician.

    Went further and said:

    "I can give a pretty good speech, and I can connect and inspire the American people in ways that have become apparent. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't pretty good at mixing it up...."


    [ Parent ]
    That's odd (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:59:03 PM EST
    isn't he running against politics as usual and now suddenly he is saying:

    but I'm a pretty darn good politician.

    Never mind it comes off a little elitist and arrogant as well to set himself above George McGovern who had a long and illstrious Senate career. I'll give him Dukakis but McGovern?

    As for if I wasn't pretty good at mixing it up.

    Yup there is that long track record of wreckage Obama now has to his credit. It's called the corpse of the Democratic Party.


    [ Parent ]

    Yeah, when you're (none / 0) (#188)
    by frankly0 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:50:31 PM EST
    the most overrated politician in living memory, it really must seem to you that you are pretty good at just about everything.

    Because, you see, that's what everybody's telling you, and you don't have the inherent modesty and skepticism to question it.

    [ Parent ]

    No one can mix it up like Obama (none / 0) (#200)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:59:47 PM EST
    and especially with a bunch of rabbis in the room.  I wish they had challenged hom to a scripture-off.

    [ Parent ]
    Spector was on c-span (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by magisterludi on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:11:17 PM EST
    a few minutes ago taking BO to task (to reporters) for "shirking his constitutional responsibilities" by delegating his judicial votes to Reid and Leahy. He was pretty steamed and said he can contacted George and Charlie to question BO about that during the debate tonite. Who knows if they'll bite.

    Makes you wonder how many other votes have been "delegated".

    A lot; Obama has one of the worst (none / 0) (#202)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:00:32 PM EST
    attendance records on voting in the Senate.

    [ Parent ]
    And What Does That Mean? (1.00 / 1) (#235)
    by squeaky on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:34:52 PM EST
    That he is lazy? Have you looked at his record? The absent votes are almost all for bills that were either passing or failing by large majority.

    Do you think that he had no idea how the votes he missed would turn out? It is never surprising, as the math is worked out in advance.

    It is an empty talking point meant to imply that Obama is a lazy man.

    Here is the record.

    Any content that you want to discuss regarding absent, yes, or no votes?  No?  I thought so.


    [ Parent ]

    Stop it. "Lazy" is your word (none / 0) (#245)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:24:48 PM EST
    which is revealing again about you, that you would jump to that conclusion.

    I never used the term, and I didn't "imply" anything.  Now, if you want to be civil and ask what my take is on this and what it means to me, I might.

    Shame on you, Squeaky.  Shame on you.

    [ Parent ]

    Wow! shocking USAToday article on Obama (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Josey on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:13:06 PM EST
    Shocking that they would tell the Truth about Obama's ties to lobbyists.
    http://tinyurl.com/6fhjfo
    Amazing indeed. (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:28:21 PM EST
    From the link:

    Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor said that while Obama's refusal to take money from lobbyists "isn't a perfect solution or symbol, it does reflect Obama's record of trying to change the way that Washington does business." He declined to elaborate.

    TRYING to change the way that Washington does business, while sneakily doing things exactly the same way.

    No wonder he "declined to elaborate."


    [ Parent ]

    Interesting. (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by felizarte on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:46:48 PM EST
    This issue could come up in tonight's debate.  USA Today is affiliated with ABC News.

    [ Parent ]
    OMFG!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by digdugboy on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:13:36 PM EST
    DKos is going crazy about George Stephanopolous being a moderator of tonight's debate. The hysteria is a riot!

    Why? (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:19:00 PM EST
    Stephanapolis turned his back on the Clintons a long time ago. They have nothing to worry about.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, I know (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by digdugboy on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:20:11 PM EST
    It's crazy talk.

    [ Parent ]
    OMG (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:22:39 PM EST
    conspiring with Hannity to actually ask the Precious a real question.
    horrors! wheres the fainting couch?

    [ Parent ]
    I sent it to the cleaners.... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by kredwyn on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:25:30 PM EST
    it should be back in an hour or so.

    Someone spilt hysteria goo on it from the last outrage.
    "Wit has truth in it; wisecracking is simply calisthenics with words." Dorothy Parker
    [ Parent ]

    There are two Daily Kosses (none / 0) (#69)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:03:39 PM EST
    The quiet thoughtful types - which I'm surprised by every time I find them still there.

    The Shouters who appear to want to be the loudest, most outraged posters on the blog.

    It's a strange place.

    [ Parent ]

    Tweety Graces Cover of NYT Magazine (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:18:57 PM EST
    Media Matters (Eric Boehlert) has a great piece today about the NYT Magazine cover story on Chris Matthews.

    Here's the Media Matters link: For Chris Matthews Misogyny Pays.

    How does the NYT story characterize Matthews hideous attitudes toward Hillary and women in general? Here's how: "Matthews is a sexist in the same benign way your grandfather is, but at least he tells the truth".

    Boehlert asks: "Benign sexism...Is that sort of like "benign" racism?".

    It's a great read; but depressing as hell, as Boehlert repeatedly states.

    been reading around the web today (none / 0) (#31)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:28:33 PM EST
    that he plans to run for the senate.
    at least cable would be rid of him.  I assume.

    [ Parent ]
    Not so, Captain! (none / 0) (#36)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:38:20 PM EST
    We would be subjected to endless Tweety campaign commercials and (the horror, the horror) perhaps committee hearings, starring Senator Tweety!

    [ Parent ]
    Whichever Democrat runs against him (none / 0) (#37)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:38:57 PM EST
    will kick his crazy behind.

    He has no idea how obnoxiously he comes across.

    [ Parent ]

    he's a democrat believe it or not (n/t) (none / 0) (#39)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:44:41 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Perhaps madamab (none / 0) (#49)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:47:36 PM EST
    was talking about the primary.
    It would be fascinating to see Matthews subjected to the same kind of abuse from the cable guys that Chris dishes out daily.
    I suppose that's too much to hope for, though.

    [ Parent ]
    Actually (none / 0) (#59)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:56:35 PM EST
    I know he worked for Tip O'Neill and all that, but I don't believe he'll run as a Democrat. He may go "Independent" to pretend he's not a Republican, but it will be for show only.

    Did you know he used to be a William F. Buckley conservative?

    But if he does run as a D, I am pretty sure he will be destroyed in the primary. :-)

    [ Parent ]

    Arlen Specter (none / 0) (#81)
    by cmugirl on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:20:37 PM EST
    said he's running again.  If Tweety is his opponent, I think I will send some money to old Arlen!

    [ Parent ]
    his brother is a republican (none / 0) (#82)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:21:05 PM EST
    elected pol

    [ Parent ]
    Tweety would set a record (none / 0) (#204)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:03:17 PM EST
    for how fast he would have a Senate page problem, based on his behavior toward grown women on tv.

    Mothers, don't let your daughters be Senate pages if Tweety is elected.  We have some video for you. . . .

    [ Parent ]

    Absolutely (none / 0) (#86)
    by CST on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:24:14 PM EST
    I am an Obama supporter but I have to say Chris Matthews is a disgrace and watching him makes me cringe.  He is offensive, disgusting, and totally out of touch with anything resembling reality.  I hope he gets killed in the Primary (figuratively) since I would never condone voting republican.

    [ Parent ]
    He really takes offensive to a new level (none / 0) (#92)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:28:05 PM EST
    I would sit there just dumbfounded with the crap coming out of his mouth. Do NOT miss watching him AT ALL.

    Cable free for 3 weeks now! {except for sports and food shows!}

    [ Parent ]

    its really sort of liberating (none / 0) (#105)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:42:55 PM EST
    isnt it?


    [ Parent ]
    The New Obama ad (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by Chimster on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:46:42 PM EST
    Perhaps it's just me, but something seems very strange with Obama's new ad that showcases Hillary bringing up Bittergate and getting booed for it.

    The first time i saw the Hillary-being-booed incident on video, I honestly thought the audience was booing Obama's recent comments she was referencing-not her digs at him.

    So when the ad came out, I watched to see which snippet they'd use. When I listened to the "booing" part, the audience seemed truly negative and angry torwards her. But I didn't remember hearing it like that when I first saw her speech.

    So I went back and compared the two videos. The campaign had obviously raised or manipulated the volume of the dissenters. Normally, fiddling with volume isn't a big deal. But when the actual booing is the main purpose for being included in a campaign ad, you have to question how deceptive is messing with volume or manipulation to make your point.

    Yes! (5.00 / 4) (#57)
    by Athena on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:54:57 PM EST
    I noticed that also - the audio was manipulated to raise the volume of the dissenters.

    This is one for Dan Abrams or Factcheck to investigate.

    [ Parent ]

    Well if you like Hillary even one teeny bit.... (none / 0) (#140)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:19:11 PM EST
    ...having the booing so loud really rubs you the right way and it makes his supporters seem rude.

    [ Parent ]
    ... oops meant rubs you the wrong way.... (none / 0) (#144)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:20:10 PM EST
    ...of course if you are a committed Obama supporter it rubs you the right way.

    [ Parent ]
    either they raised the levels (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by libfighter on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:03:53 PM EST
    or got hold of another audio feed.

    Either way I think it will be pretty effective at painting Hillary as playing petty politics instead of focussing on the issues. It makes her "bitter" ads look negative and perhaps even a bit misleading.

    I have heard that in most of PA Hillary is only running the "bitter' ad. Big mistake not to runs some issues ads as well. Negative ads can be effective, but you need offer something other than anger.

    My opinion of course.

    [ Parent ]

    I think raising (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by kmblue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:21:51 PM EST
    the audio levels is dishonest
    and not worthy of Obama, the chosen one.
    If that is, in fact, the case.

    But hey, what do I know?  
    I'm just a bitter little person.

    (A prize to anyone who picks up on
    the TV show reference here.  I'll check back. :)  )

    [ Parent ]

    Her skin looked darker too (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Practically Lactating on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:31:33 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    At last! (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by nellre on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:14:50 PM EST
    I've been posting here trying to get somebody to back me up on my perceptions.
    It's more than just altering the volume, they moved it. The only groaning I could hear (don't hear that well, but I turned up my speakers) was when she mentioned Obama's earlier attacks on her.


    [ Parent ]
    Yeah well always come here if you want to... (none / 0) (#149)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:21:48 PM EST
    ...get away from the sound of crickets.

    [ Parent ]
    There's more of us than shows. (none / 0) (#164)
    by felizarte on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:33:19 PM EST
    Let's just surprise them.  I still remember your touching post in another thread.  Come, visit often.

    [ Parent ]
    Definitely amped the audio (none / 0) (#206)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:04:59 PM EST
    said I here, first thing I heard it yesterday.  Glad to know I wasn't hearing things.  

    Not yet, anyway.  

    [ Parent ]

    Worth Reading (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by badger on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 02:47:08 PM EST
    Goodbye to All That (#2) by Robin Morgan.

    I would like to add (none / 0) (#76)
    by CST on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:12:19 PM EST
    Goodbye to treating everyone who didn't vote for candidate "X" as a non-thinking, kool-aid drinking, Oprah-worshiping, woman-hating hack.

    Hello to allowing people personal choice without calling them sexist, racist, naive, out-of-touch, etc...

    "As for the "woman thing"?

    Me, I'm voting for Hillary not because she's a woman--but because I am."

    And I'm voting for Obama because I like his policy better, and I think he has better ideas about how to lead the country.  Not because my boyfriend told me to, or because feminism is "icky".

    [ Parent ]

    clapping (none / 0) (#108)
    by libfighter on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:47:45 PM EST
    as I type this.

    There are two good dems duking it out. They both wear white hats.

    [ Parent ]

    Meet Obama's Other Mentor: Bill Ayers (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Exeter on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:22:40 PM EST
    This is a guy that, as a leader of the Weatherman bombed the U.S. Capitol and other federal buildings then afterward said "I don't regret setting bombs; I feel we didn't do enough."  He also said "Kill all the rich people." and the "Revolution starts at home. Kill your parents."  

    This is a guy that Alexelrod has described as a friend of Obama, that Obama has repeatedly gone to his home for fundraisers, who Obama has repeatedly done joint public appearences with, and who Obama served alongside on a nonprofit board.

    It would be one thing if Ayers was repentant and was now, like a reformed former gang member preaching a new way of life, or in his case preaching against terrorism, but just the opposite. He recently said, "Terrorists destroy randomly, while our actions bore... the precise stamp of a cut diamond. Terrorists intimidate, while we aimed only to educate."

    Reason number 1,729 of why Obama is unelectable in the fall.  Can you imagine the GOP ad splicing together Wright and Ayers?

     

    Hannity? (none / 0) (#98)
    by cannondaddy on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:35:00 PM EST
    Is that you?  You forgot to mention it was on Sept. 11 2001 that Ayers said "he wished he had done more".  

    [ Parent ]
    What's your point? (none / 0) (#115)
    by Exeter on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:00:35 PM EST
    That ignoring vulnerabities in the primary will make them go away in the general, especially when the GOP opponent is running on national secutity?

    [ Parent ]
    McCain's national security position (none / 0) (#119)
    by libfighter on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:03:27 PM EST
    can be tied to Bush's which is not a GE winner.


    [ Parent ]
    That sounds alot like 2004 (none / 0) (#126)
    by Exeter on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:07:06 PM EST
    and that was running AGAINST Bush. McCain will be more difficult and, let's face it, 9/11 will still be a strong force in the election.  Not as strong as 2004, but its still in the back of peoples' minds.

    [ Parent ]
    And did Obama actually toast Auchi? (none / 0) (#236)
    by Cream City on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:36:34 PM EST
    So it is said at Taylor Marsh -- Obama can't recall even being at the Rezko party for the convicted Auchi, but others recall Obama actually giving toasts to him.  That is just too weird.

    [ Parent ]
    But everybody else at the party is a crook... (none / 0) (#241)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:45:18 PM EST
    ...so how can you believe them? </snark>

    [ Parent ]
    Surprise: Stewart agrees with BO's take on PA (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:25:44 PM EST
    Stewart was more shrill than funny last night. He was so obviously bent out of shape by Obama's bad press over 'bitter-gate'.

    Stewart went one further than Obama to say: "Those people do not turn to guns and god and mistrust of foreigners because of a downturn in the economy: those are the very foundations those towns are built on!".

    Stewart followed up with a riff about a guy and his best friend working in a factory and desperately wanting to get out of there but then: "his friend falls into a vat of molten steel. That's Western PA". There was a hearty round of warm applause for that one. I guess, industrial accidents seldom fail to amuse a Daily Show audience.

    Somebody upstream said Stewart didn't have to use any "tricks" to make Clinton look bad when she was drinking with the guys in the PA bar. Well, the footage was repeatedly looped, so it looked like she was a chug-a-lug booze-hound. Looping is the oldest "trick" in the book - it's too tired to ever be funny (at least to me).

    A good time was not had by all who were watching Stewart last night.

    I'm not surprised (none / 0) (#101)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:39:01 PM EST
    I haven't been watching TDS lately, but a couple of months ago, Stewart was quite nasty to Hillary, mocking her for her "win" in Florida.  I thought it was a byproduct of the writers' strike; he was starved for material and he knew he could get a big cheer from the audience every time he bashed Hillary or mentioned Obama's name.  

    I think Colbert is funnier anyway.

    [ Parent ]

    Calm down (1.00 / 1) (#103)
    by CST on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:42:34 PM EST
    He mocks Obama too.  He is a comedian, he makes fun of everyone.  When he had Hillary on the show he was nothing but respectful.  Of course he goes overboard for a laugh now and then, but the man isn't working for cnn, it's called comedy central.

    [ Parent ]
    Gee thanks (none / 0) (#109)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:49:01 PM EST
    for explaining the obvious.

    [ Parent ]
    He goes on CNN (none / 0) (#240)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:44:21 PM EST
    And tells people they are hurting America, and he won't be their monkey and say something funny.

    Turns out every time someone criticizes him, he has nothing to say about anything, and he's just being someone's monkey and saying something funny.

    So we shouldn't criticize him.

    It's a typical passive aggressive A-list blogging mentality.  You know why bloggers will never be held accountable for what they say.  Well duh!

    They're JUST bloggers.  What?  You expected insight from a blog?


    [ Parent ]

    I thought so too (none / 0) (#123)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:05:55 PM EST
    but I am a tad oversensitive these days.  I did notice he did not get many laughs on his long bit about the shot and a beer.

    [ Parent ]
    A to D is spamming (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:29:01 PM EST
    but it's all TalkLeft's fault!

    :-)

    I'm struck (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by facta non verba on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:31:37 PM EST
    by this line:

    the States' legitimate interest in providing for a quick, certain death

    That can only be said of very few countries around the world: the Islamic world, China, Cuba, some of sub-Saharan Africa, Belarus, Taiwan, Singapore and the United States. Apart from the US, only the Bahamas, Guatemala, El Salvador and Cuba have a death penalty in this hemisphere.

    In the rest of the world, the States' legitimate interest in providing for a long and healthy life.

    For the United States to rank #37 in terms of overall health metrics (though we are first in overall health costs and administrative health costs) and for the United States to rank #3 in executions only behind China and the DR of the Congo is something that rakes my conscience.

    Yes, it is shameful. I don't understand (none / 0) (#130)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:10:51 PM EST
    why it isn't a bigger issue to Americans.

    [ Parent ]
    Superdelegate update (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by magster on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:35:11 PM EST
    Obama gets three today.

    Clinton gets two tomorrow.

    Clinton will have a 25 superdelegate lead this time tomorrow.

    Not a surprise to me! (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by TalkRight on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 03:39:24 PM EST
    as per Ben Smith Popular vote popular

    While there's some doubt as to the value of the popular vote as a reliable metric in the Democratic primary,  the new ABC News/Washington Post poll shows the electorate  -- as of now -- thinks otherwise:

    Those superdelegates are free to back any candidate, and many of them remain uncommitted. When asked how superdelegates should decide which candidate to support, nearly half of Democrats said they should follow the overall popular vote, while just one in eight said the number of delegates won in primaries and caucuses should be the deciding factor. Nearly four in 10 said superdelegates should choose the candidate they think is the best.

    So just 1 in 10 says what Obama surrogates have been saying!~

    Obama does take Lobbyist Money (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by stefystef on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:01:42 PM EST
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-04-15-obama_N.htm

    The mask is cracking...

    But But (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Josmt on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:30:00 PM EST
    He said he doesn't take money... How can this be...

    btw, you won't see this in the MSM, but if it was Hillary, all hell would let loose.

    [ Parent ]

    Actually (none / 0) (#165)
    by CST on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:35:31 PM EST
    I read about that on MSN.  Also, Lawyers employed by Lobbyists aren't lobbyists.  Neither are former Lobbyists.

    I agree he isn't perfect, but he didn't lie about that either.

    [ Parent ]

    And lobbyist's wives aren't lobbyists....... (none / 0) (#172)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:44:06 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Political Psychology (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:09:11 PM EST
    Interesting take on the last 4 months.  

    Warning: Obama supporters will blow a gasket

    (as his theory predicts, by the way)

    Link

    Not much there (1.00 / 1) (#156)
    by libfighter on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:28:10 PM EST
    just a heavily pro Clinton supporter, repeating Hillary campaign talking points about electability, sprinkled with passive agressive shots at Obama supporters. Very longwinded, very partisan.

    Gasket not blown.

    [ Parent ]

    Nice try (none / 0) (#171)
    by lambert on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:43:44 PM EST
    but no cigar (gentleman)....

    [ Parent ]
    that is what I read (none / 0) (#209)
    by libfighter on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:10:16 PM EST
    and read and read and read. lots of words, fewpoints, all opinion, all partisan.

    [ Parent ]
    Just what I have been thinking. (none / 0) (#184)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:48:38 PM EST
    We permissive Moms of the 80' and on have created self-esteem monsters who must have their way.

    [ Parent ]
    Tavis Smiley, anyone following this? (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:21:18 PM EST
    Tavis Smiley Seeks Relief from Crazed Obamites
    thanks (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:27:45 PM EST
    I hadn't seen this, but I have read about it on Sugar's blog.  It must be tough to be an AA who doesn't support Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    Tavis The New Dixie Chicks? (5.00 / 2) (#237)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:36:56 PM EST
    From the article:

    Poor Tavis, who had labored so long and hard to become a Black media darling, suddenly found himself condemned as "a hater, sellout and traitor," he told inquiring bloggers. "They are harassing my momma, harassing my brother. It's getting to be crazy."

    Eight years of people being labeled a traitor and worse if they dared to question W is enough. Don't want to repeat that pattern even if the president has a D after his name.

    [ Parent ]

    The phenomena IS familiar. (none / 0) (#242)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:46:36 PM EST
    Too bad we didn't call Bush and his crew a bunch of kool-aid drinking, war mongering cultists way back when.  Neocon sounds too respectable.

    [ Parent ]
    Never seen a photo before. (none / 0) (#167)
    by Fabian on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:37:51 PM EST
    Tavis is a handsome gentleman!  I like his show.  It went from weekdays to Fridays only here.  I don't like the show that replaced it - it's too conservative for me.

    Thanks for the link.

    [ Parent ]

    FYI (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 04:31:57 PM EST