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Obama Attacks Hillary for Having a "Shot and A Beer"

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:56:45 PM EST
Tags: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, 2008 (all tags)
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Obama on the campaign trail today:

“Around election time, the candidates can’t do enough. They'll promise you anything, give you a long list of proposals and even come around, with TV crews in tow, to throw back a shot and a beer,” Obama said, stirring laughter from an audience of steelworkers and steel industry executives.

First he mocks her as Annie Oakley, now he goes after her having a drink on a Saturday night (video here) -- something she's done with reporters in tow before.

Hillary hits back:

“With all due respect, this is the same politician who spent six days posing for clichéd camera shots that included bowling gutterballs, walking around a sports bar, feeding a baby cow, and buying a ham at the Philly market (albeit one that cost $99.99 a pound). Sen. Obama's speeches won’t hide his condescending views of Americans living in small towns," Clinton spokesman Phil Singer said in the statement.

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    Obama Attacks Hillary for Having a "Shot and A Beer" | 133 comments (133 topical)

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    Angry Obama (5.00 / 8) (#1)
    by Athena on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:59:19 PM EST
    His mockery of Clinton is unbecoming and will backfire.  It reflects his deep anger at getting caught denigrating the working folks of PA.

    This is Obama in full-resentment mode; it reminds me of Bush at his most dismissive and sarcastic.  Not a flattering comparison.

    It reminds me of Obama saying that (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Joelarama on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:03:51 PM EST
    Hillary is "likable enough."

    Parent
    Bad enough to call voters "bitter" (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:05:13 PM EST
    but worse for him to become bitter.  Messes with the shiny unity pony image.

    Not that he's avoided bitters and brewski (as we call it here in the city that it made famous)  himself.  So stupid of Obama.  This just begs for the photos, youtubes, etc., of him swilling down a brew with Casey at the bowling alley.

    And that brings back the bowling alley photos and score and more again -- including his bitterness in blaming his bad score on a boy at the bowling alley.

    It's looking like a snarky, effete, Obamaplosion.

    Parent

    bitter irony (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by diplomatic on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:11:17 PM EST
    That he was talking about bitter people clinging to religion having attend Rev. Wright's church for 20 years.

    Parent
    Amen! LOL (none / 0) (#137)
    by STLDeb on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:19:10 AM EST
    Agree very much.  You sit in the pew for 20 years listening to the "bitter" rhetoric from your pastor and you have the audacity (pun intended yes) to say PA voters are "bitter"?  

    Parent
    Btw, if she had dropped the shotglass (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:20:54 PM EST
    still full, in the beer mug and then swilled it down -- she would have shown that she really knew how to put away the brew around the Great Lakes.  She must have missed out on that by being a good girl in high school and then leaving Chicago for Wellesley.

    C'mon back to your Midwest, Senator Clinton, and we'll catch you up on what you missed in those formative years in the Midwestern social graces.

    Parent

    Isn't that (none / 0) (#52)
    by rooge04 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:49:43 PM EST
    what we call and Irish car bomb?  Tasty.

    Parent
    That's guiness with a shot of bailey's (none / 0) (#53)
    by MarkL on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:52:11 PM EST
    dropped in it.. check out my comment from a few minutes ago:)


    Parent
    Just saw it. (none / 0) (#55)
    by rooge04 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:54:16 PM EST
    ;)  Guinness sounds pretty great, too, though.

    Parent
    When I lived in Texas... (none / 0) (#60)
    by cmugirl on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:58:58 PM EST
    a shot of Jagermeister, lit on fire, dropped in a beer was a Flaming Dr. Pepper! :)

    Parent
    I think I could hurt (none / 0) (#71)
    by rooge04 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:12:30 PM EST
    myself with that one!

    Parent
    Same in NOLA (none / 0) (#103)
    by angie on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:21:34 PM EST
    where I'm originally from -- Dr. Pepper shots -- we poured a tiny bit of Everclear on top to light it. I haven't thought of those in a long while . . . good times!

    Parent
    Boilermaker (none / 0) (#63)
    by mm on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:02:03 PM EST
    At least that's what we called it back in the day.

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#67)
    by chrisvee on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:03:41 PM EST
    That's what this PA gal calls them, too. :-)

    Parent
    Boilermaker (none / 0) (#90)
    by nemo52 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:01:04 PM EST
    in Buffalo, too.

    Parent
    Yep, boilermaker's the name (none / 0) (#107)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:31:12 PM EST
    in Wisconsin, too -- shows the shared Great Lakes  culture with Pennsylvania, Ohio, so possibly German? but also upstate New York, which sent many a future Wisconsinite west upon opening the Erie Canal.

    Btw, a wintertime version for football tailgating calls for peppermint schnapps, mmmm, and that's definitely Teutonic.

    Of course, we'd be better caught dead before calling this or anything else part of "cullcher" here.  It's just the way it's done and has been done and whodoyouthinkyouare to do it any different -- like the cullcheral types in Madison who put their brats (bratwurst) on croissants.  And don't even marinate 'em first in a clean garbage can full of brewski.  Well, pretty clean.

    Parent

    I thought a Boilermaker (none / 0) (#113)
    by white n az on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:40:07 PM EST
    was when you dropped the whiskey shot into the beer mug so you get both when you chug it down.

    Parent
    Exacly; see up (none / 0) (#131)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:06:34 PM EST
    but I like mine to be Jameson's in Guinness, once a year, and I bet you know what day that would be.

    And the very thought would make my Irisher ancestors roll over in their graves.  They would approve that I refuse to have my Jameson's on the rocks, ugh.

    Parent

    What I love about Wisconsin (none / 0) (#126)
    by zyx on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:34:13 PM EST
    and the boozing is that they call bars "taverns".

    I love that word.

    Parent

    Bars (and now clubs) are where (none / 0) (#130)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:05:09 PM EST
    the youn'uns go, and it will be too noisy to have a conversation.  Young'uns don't want conversations; they text those to each other a few feet away in the bars -- I know this not because I go but because I have young'uns.  They want really noisy bars because then, to say anything at all to each other, they have to lean in real close to hear even a few words.

    Past about 30 or so, and/or on softball or bowling or beach volleyball or buckets nights with our teams or just movie nights, we go to taverns.  We want to hear each other, and we definitely do not want to have to lean in close to do so, because then we can see each other's wrinkles.  Kills the romance of the pick-up chance, huh?

    Seriously, there are distinctions here (and in other towns I've seen it, such as Baltimore) between these terms.  But here, they all have great fattening food.  Mmmmm, cheese curds. :-)

    Parent

    Wow that is a great description (none / 0) (#133)
    by zyx on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 01:24:37 AM EST
    but my relatives are from those smaller towns (but they are almost NEVER bitter!), and I think their towns mostly have the smaller establishments.  I never heard the relatives refer to any drinking-type establishment as anything other than a "tavern".

    Parent
    This thread is a bit old (none / 0) (#138)
    by eric on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:34:47 AM EST
    but I hope those in the know, namely Cream City, see this and can answer this question:  do you guys serve a small shot of beer as a "chaser" with a bloody mary?

    Here in Minnesota, we do, at least usually.  In Chicago, they don't seem to.  I think I have seen this done in the UP but I am not sure.  It is fascinating reading about this common Great Lakes culture of drinking...

    Parent

    Boilermaker (none / 0) (#65)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:03:05 PM EST
    Disgusting imo. Don't know how people do it.

    Parent
    In VA we call it illegal! Isn't that (none / 0) (#66)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:03:32 PM EST
    a scream? Illegal to mix hard liquor with beer-some throwback to an earlier time but VA is called The Old Dominion and lives up to it's name.

    Parent
    But that can't be true in Richmond (none / 0) (#98)
    by Trickster on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:06:34 PM EST
    Or else that little bar on Franklin and Shafer is a criminal enterprise. . . .  And I'm an accomplice.

    Parent
    Ah, yes, the boilermaker memories (none / 0) (#81)
    by caseyOR on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:27:07 PM EST
    In the part of central Illinois where I grew up it was usually Jim Beam, not Crown Royal , but I respect the regional preferences. And the trick is to not chip a tooth when swigging down the whiskey and beer.

    Parent
    Also smacks of (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by Firefly4625 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:16:44 PM EST
    the high level of "acceptable" sexism in this election season - by the Obama campaign, by the Obama blogs and by the media.

    "Ladies" don't do shots with the "boys" - "ladies" don't carry or approve of guns - "ladies" don't have the temerity to run for President of the United States!

    "Ladies" who don't know their place deserve mocking and derision, doncha know...

    Hoping lots of other women start seeing this for what it is...

    Parent

    Oh, you had me way back (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Kathy on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:20:58 PM EST
    with "unseemly" after FL.

    Parent
    He's got "Bitter Beer Face" (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by myiq2xu on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:33:42 PM EST
    Keystone beer comes from . . . the "Keystone" state.

    Parent
    Nice!! (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by diplomatic on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:40:15 PM EST


    Parent
    Buy a ham? That's not how I heard it.... (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by lambert on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 12:24:57 AM EST
    I heard Obama cured a ham.

    [wait for it]














    His first miracle!!!!!

    Parent

    "Give you a long list of proposals." (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by Joelarama on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:00:12 PM EST
    How awful!  How dare she have policies?

    Politics, not policies, are important.  God help the Democratic Party come November.

    I Loved That Part (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:05:29 PM EST
    I just refer you to my website, but she insists on discussing her policy proposals in detail.  Ha!

    Parent
    Can Someone Explain To Me (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:04:39 PM EST
    Why it's good for Obama to defend himself by essentially claiming Hillary is an elitist, too?  I understand it might help him in the short term defeat her, but doesn't he want to win in November?  And even against Hillary isn't he basically complaining that she's campaigning?  He's done the same thing.  All politicians do.  How does this help him?

    Not to mention that Hillary looked pretty darned comfortable drinking that beer and a shot in this video (I love that she goes back and picks up the beer, no one-sip and done photo op for her).

    Obama highlighting Hillary drinking beer (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by diplomatic on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:07:38 PM EST
    Maybe a lot of people hadn't heard about that... Now they can contrast his recent "elite" comments with what Hillary was doing on the weekend.

    For example, until this thread I had not yet seen the video of Hillary chugging that thing down.  But now I just saw it and like her even more.

    Thanks Obama!

    Parent

    If I Have My Way (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:09:56 PM EST
    that video will be everywhere. It's awesome.  It cannot be linked to or shown enough as far as I'm concerned.

    Parent
    And there's the vid of her on the plane (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:15:17 PM EST
    having a beer, wearing a big baggy sweatshirt, heading back to talk with the press -- and when they offer her a beer, she shows that's what she's got in her big plastic working-class beer cup . . . and she gives that chuckle.  It's great; it's on Youtube.

    Parent
    And Don't Forget (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:20:12 PM EST
    This story.

    I'll give Obama that Hillary Clinton has not spent much of her adult life firing guns (not that she has claimed otherwise), but I think it's foolish to question the sincerity of this woman's drinking.  

    Cue all the pundits asking if Hillary is an alcoholic.  Or more likely, "Did Bill drive Hil to drink?"

    Parent

    CNN used the Obama beer-swilling video (none / 0) (#108)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:32:53 PM EST
    tonight.  Toldja so, Senator O.  

    Parent
    In a good or bad way? (none / 0) (#110)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:38:10 PM EST


    Parent
    In a fair way -- saying he went after her (none / 0) (#129)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:00:18 PM EST
    and yet he sucks brewski, too -- so, without saying it, they were saying he was being, y'know, a pol.

    But that means media saying he was not being a bright shiny hope pony.  

    Parent

    I missed an op to do so in Milwaukee (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:13:14 PM EST
    where Clinton made a bar famous that poured her beer that made my city famous.  During the primary, she  came by to thank her workers -- but by then, because of weather, I had to head out of town to give a speech . . . which ended up cancelled, anyway, because of the blizzard and ice (that also ended up cancelling all her events on that crucial day, her main day, in the disastrous Wisconsin campaign.

    When I got back to town and found out that I had missed lifting a brewski with Clinton . . . well, it still breaks my heart.  Thus the need for her to be the nominee, so she would swing through town again and throw down a few with us again, if I have to camp out in the corner tavern to be sure to be there. :-)

    (Well, I did sip a glass of wine at a garden party with her here in the '90s, too, but I then was only a few hundred folks and lots of shrubs and mulch and more away from her.)

    Parent

    It's a standard right-wing meme (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by myiq2xu on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:30:46 PM EST
    they use when they get in trouble

    "Clinton did it too!"

    Obama loves right-wing memes

    Parent

    Obama went real low (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Josey on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:12:31 PM EST
    saying something about her toasting in the bar - just think of the fat cats she'll be toasting in the White House. (something like that)
    Mr. Purity also gave the impression that he had never voted for a free trade agreement!


    Parent
    Yep. Now if she had been sipping a latte (none / 0) (#10)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:06:59 PM EST
    or asking for oj instead of coffee straight, that would be different.  This does not hurt Hill, it only hurts him.  

    This guy cannot win the general election, if he can't even handle the primary season.

    Parent

    Yeah, she drank it like, well, we do (none / 0) (#21)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:17:55 PM EST
    I loved her throw her head back. It was always tradition that at sport events tailgating, the girls (25-50) always had a bottle of Tequila Gold, lemons, and salt. We all would do it in unison and the guys would all applaud. And we didn't share with them either. Maybe it was not to impress the men. Maybe she did it to remind us girls we are all in this together. Why would Obama pick on her for this unless he is very worried. I thought he was above this kind of criticism. It actually makes him look petty. BTW, I do not want her to quit. It would be a blow to me and my love of politics that a woman had to give in because the men wanted her to for the good of the party.

    Parent
    Nice dig with the ham price (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by diplomatic on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:04:47 PM EST


    Hillary 99.9, Obama, 0. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by MarkL on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:06:35 PM EST
    I think Obama has gotten the better of a lot of these little exchanges---but not this time.

    And let's help him out before (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:26:42 PM EST
    he blows it again and muddle his metaphors that he thinks will hurt Clinton.  Senator Obama, do not now suggest that Phoebe Ann "Annie Oakley" Mosely put away the likker, too; she was said to be a teetotaler, among her many sterling virtues.

    Still researching whether Annie Oakley did bowl -- but at least she, like Clinton, knew that you don't use six-shooters to take down li'l duckies for dinner.  Annie always was photographed with a rifle, from what I see.

    (Obama seriously needs someone on staff who can do decent historical research, and especially in women's history.  I can hardly wait for the next gaffe, to help me write my final exam.:-)

    Parent

    Annie Oakley was also a (none / 0) (#111)
    by FlaDemFem on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:39:08 PM EST
    champion pistol shot. She could take the middle thingy right out of the ace of cards with a pistol. And if I remember my bio of her correctly, she used to shoot cigarettes out of her husband's mouth with a pistol at exhibitions. Shorter distance than she did it with a rifle, a pistol not being accurate at a distance.

    Parent
    He Must Really Be Worried (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:07:35 PM EST
    Having thought a bit more about it, this attack seems particularly lame.  

    And if he's talking about this still, then he must not think he's managed to put the issue to rest. Because I have to think if he had his druthers, he wouldn't be talking about this anymore.  

    Worried, or cranky (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by zyx on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:15:27 PM EST
    Maybe he's on the stick-of-Nicorette-as-three-course-meal diet as made famous by Maureen Dowd.  It would make ME cranky.

    Parent
    Yeah, he's worried... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by IzikLA on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:24:21 PM EST
    And obviously not thinking clearly -- didn't he literally just do a photo op in PA drinking a yuengling and bragging about it?  

    Parent
    How long can he keep mudslinging (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by stillife on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:13:34 PM EST
    before it tarnishes his Hopey Changey New Kind of Politics image?

    If this is how he behaves (5.00 / 8) (#29)
    by Kathy on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:24:00 PM EST
    when he thinks he's winning, what's gonna happen when he realizes he's losing?

    Did he just lose the beer-drinkers' vote? (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:30:32 PM EST
    We need the data on numbers of beer drinkers vs. latte sippers.  

    Seriously -- I was a student of former LBJ press secretary George Reedy during the first Reagan campaign, and 'way before anyone else saw it as Reagan's year, Reedy had us research weird stuff for his call to WaPo to call it for Reagan.

    He had us research sales of cowboy hats and cowboy boots, and sales were 'way up that summer, so he saw the trend and said the country would go for the ol' cowboy they had seen on tv on "Death Valley Days."


    Parent

    Well, in my neck of the woods, they (none / 0) (#114)
    by FlaDemFem on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:42:06 PM EST
    are still trying to figure out why anyone would call a "coffee light" a latte. LOL

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#122)
    by chrisvee on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:05:24 PM EST
    He's obviously got some scary internal polling numbers, hence the renewed attack (which I think will backfire).

    Parent
    Okay (5.00 / 5) (#41)
    by chrisvee on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:35:11 PM EST
    I've had it with both campaigns.  I could care less if they (while visiting with locals on campaign stops) drink orange juice, slam back a shot, eat expensive ham, tell stories about hunting with their grandparents as children, pose for photos, kiss babies, fly in stylists to cut their hair, or discuss the price of arugula.  This is what politicians do.  They visit places and they do things of local interest while discussing their policy proposals.  The campaigns need to stop making normal things into character issues.  As long as they stay out of tanks and don't windsurf, I'm happy.  Extra demerits to the Obama campaign for the mockery and sarcasm that I perceive in their remarks.  I find it mean-spirited and hypocritical.

    However, I do care if a candidate goes off to exclusive fund-raising events with big money donors and starts making observations about segments of the voting population that are at best ill-advised and at worst derogatory.  It's bad sociology and it's worse politics. I also resent said candidate trying to distract me with 'Hey, forget that I may have called rural voters bigots, there's Hillary pretending to like beer!'

    Someone please save me from this primary season.

    My mom just called. She is pi**ed at Obama (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Teresa on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:36:51 PM EST
    now. He's putting down Hillary and she does not like it one bit.

    BTW, my daddy taught me how to shoot tin cans with a pistol on an island at the lake. I haven't shot a gun since and don't own one, but it is a nice memory. I was as good as my brothers.

    Increasingly (5.00 / 9) (#44)
    by stillife on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:38:01 PM EST
    Obama is beginning to look like an unfortunate cross between Kerry (effete and out-of-touch) and Bush (arrogant bad sport).

    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by chrisvee on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:38:26 PM EST
    That's an unfortunate (and IMO likely) interpretation of his remark.  'Look at the girl trying to act like one of the boys by drinking a boilermaker.'  He needs to stop digging.  The hole is getting deeper.

    She Pulled Her Claws Back... (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Exeter on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:39:46 PM EST
    ...in and decided to play nice with the locals, but don't be fooled America, those claws will come right back out... when you LEAST EXPECT IT!

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by chrisvee on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:41:48 PM EST
    Probably when somebody tries to steal her beer. :-)

    Parent
    I hope so . . . (none / 0) (#73)
    by abfabdem on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:12:42 PM EST
    I want her to use those claws on Republicans!!

    Parent
    He should recall from the 2000 election (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by alsace on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:55:11 PM EST
    that there are those who base their vote on who they'd most like to have a beer with.  Not smart to add even more folks to the "bitter list."

    This Bud's for you Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:39:22 PM EST
    If ever a politician deserved a drink, it is you.

    Clinton (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by lilburro on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:41:56 PM EST
    has made a commercial on the subject.  Where it's being shown though I don't know...of course I'm guessing PA.  I saw it on Lou Dobbs' show...other highlight - Dobbs saying:  "do we really need another elitist knucklehead?"  So it begins.  Welcome to Al Gore World.  If you get through alive, you can collect your Peace Prize at the door.

    I just saw it too (none / 0) (#89)
    by stillife on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:50:37 PM EST
    Lou Dobbs played it twice - free airtime for Hillary!

    Of course, I always tune him out when he starts ranting about immigration, but he made some great points about the Dem race.  He pointed out that most of the MSM is claiming that Obama apologized for his gaffe, when in fact he has not.  He got Ben Smith to admit that the "progressives" who want Hillary to drop out are Obama supporters.  And he got in a dig about MI and FL.

    Parent

    Dobbs made Ben Smith look like (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:39:38 PM EST
    a biased idjit, and Dobbs blasted him but good for trying the "Democratic activists say Clinton is hurting us" crap -- Dobbs kept hammering at him, when Smith tried it again, that these are Obama activists.  And that there would be Clinton activists who would say the opposite, and had Ben been asking them?  Uh, no, it didn't appear so.

    I switch off Dobbs, too, on the immigration stuff -- but I'm watching him these days for the campaign coverage, because he is calling out the biased boyz (and grrlz aka "Democratic activist" Donna Brazile).

    Parent

    Attacking HRC reinforces the elitism (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Terry M on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:46:42 PM EST
    I thought BO's pushback didn't help at all.  Annie Oakley?  HRC's beer and shot?  These sorts of criticism only make him look like more of snob and elitist.  Doesn't he realize that the problem is not what Hillary is doing in PA?  The problem is is how HE appears, and he is doing nothing to deflect the very negative appearance of elitism.   Making fun another does not make one look less elite - just the opposite, in fact!

    I think the "bitter clinging to God, guns & xenophobia" comment is the equivalent of Jesse Jackson's "hymie town" gaffe.  People who run as post-racial and then make harsh jabs at "rural" voters (which is code for white voters in many people's minds) look like the worst kind of hypocrites.  

    Hypocrisy is like flip-flopping. It is toxic. The Republicans will be all over this forever.

    Next he'll say she dances the polka (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:47:05 PM EST
    at weddings in church basements, like it's a bad thing, and then watch him lose the rest of western Pennsylvania and the proud descendants of many an immigrant in the Midwest.

    Obama is getting about that silly, and it sure doesn't accord with being the guy who can bring us all together blah blah blah.
     

    Parent

    Having seen the video (none / 0) (#92)
    by lilburro on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:27:58 PM EST
    the whole Annie Oakley thing rubs me the wrong way.  Like, "a woman?  with a gun?  Give me a break!"  Listening to the crowd laugh and Obama go along.

    And also, you can't hunt on Sunday in Pennsylvania.

    Parent

    The acid test will be on Wednesday (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by Dawn Davenport on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:41:17 PM EST
    Even when Obama and Edwards were tag-teaming Hillary in the debates, she managed to act non-plussed and even had a sense of humor about it. On the other hand, Obama has trouble hiding his negative feelings toward Hillary, and the toll this story's taken will likely rear its head during the debate on Wednesday.

    Although he may not act overtly churlish to her during the debate, I doubt he'll be able to hide his body-language anger about her taking advantage of his "elitist" remarks.

    Hillary is Morally Repugnant (1.00 / 9) (#95)
    by RosaLuxemburg on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:52:59 PM EST
    Since she cannot possibly win, it is clear that she is just damaging Barack's image so irreparably that McCain will win in the general and she can run again in 2012.

    This nation - our constitution, our soldiers, our image in the world, and our economy - cannot handle four more years of Republican rule. But Hillary will give it to us because of her selfish, overweening ambition.

    I wouldn't piss on her if she were on fire.

    off to a bad start (5.00 / 4) (#100)
    by diplomatic on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:15:44 PM EST
    your comment fell apart right here: "Since she cannot possibly win"

    If she cannot possibly win, why doesn't Obama just go on vacation now and wait for the concession phone call from Clinton?

    For someone who cannot possibly lose, he sure is throwing a lot of money away in ads.

    This assertion that Clinton cannot possibly win is the #1 most illogical argument coming from Obama supporters.  The actions from your candidate do not match up.  An inevitable frontrunner would not nor should not be acting in this manner.

    Parent

    Obama (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by Coldblue on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:19:45 PM EST
    might not win the general election even if he had ran unopposed in the primaries, so please stop with your Hillary hate screed OK

    Your last sentence is absolutely disgusting.

    Parent

    That is an offensive comment. (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by leis on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:20:32 PM EST


    Parent
    AND any person who would say such a (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by leis on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:24:17 PM EST
    disgusting thing doesn't really have the high ground to call anybody else "morally repugnant".  

    Parent
    No, you with your last comment are (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Florida Resident on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:25:18 PM EST
    Morally repugnant.

    Parent
    Unity 101. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:42:18 PM EST


    Parent
    And Obama has been all sweetness and (none / 0) (#97)
    by Teresa on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:54:50 PM EST
    light? Get real here. You want her to not campaign and just quit and let him have it?

    Parent
    Please don't feed the trolls (none / 0) (#106)
    by Marvin42 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:29:00 PM EST
    This whole thread is probably about to go poof (right?)

    Parent
    Get a little gasoline (none / 0) (#124)
    by RalphB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:12:49 PM EST
    and light yourself up, I need to go.

    Parent
    Obama's contempt for all women (1.00 / 1) (#117)
    by dem08 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:46:00 PM EST
    Part Two:

    Speakinbg as a resident of a New York State City with a high murder rate:

    Alas! sometimes the bad people from cities go to small town and gun shows and DagNabbit!! as real Americans would say, we have a very high murder rate. Hard to believe but some non hunters get guns.

    :(

    But, on a happier note, it must have been such a Hallmark Moment when Baby Hillary killed her first duck. A person in a small town never forgets how thrilling it is to shoot something and see it fall dead.

    Hillary: authentic, small town. Obama: effete, San Francisco.

    99.99$ A Pound (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:11:45 PM EST
    For a ham? That is more than even the best Iberico Jamon (mmmm) is only $96/lb., although maybe the savings is for preordering.

    BTW-Is there a link to Hillary's comeback?

    It Was Iberico Jamon (none / 0) (#18)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:14:19 PM EST


    Parent
    Did he also ask about (none / 0) (#23)
    by echinopsia on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:19:45 PM EST
    the price of arugula?

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:22:47 PM EST
    But, IIRC, he was talking to organic farmers in Iowa, some of who grow arugula.  I thought the coverage of his comments was crap.

    Parent
    Well, if he wants my vote for (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by MarkL on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:31:16 PM EST
    esoteric farm issues, can he PLEASE lift the restriction on unpasteurized cheese imports?

    Parent
    Yeah! (none / 0) (#84)
    by Fabian on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:34:45 PM EST
    This particular elite food snob wants her French Sancerre aged goat cheese.  My cheesemonger says that the paperwork on unpasteurized aged cheeses is a PITA and as a result, many importers just won't bother.

    (I get a little 6 ouncer about every 2-3 months.  I appreciate the good stuff, I just can't afford it.  I usually get local and domestic, but we haven't got any good aged goat cheeses here.)

    Parent

    Damn The Sinking Dollar (none / 0) (#30)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:24:28 PM EST
    Not Obama, for his good taste.

    Although, back on topic, I agree that this kind of attack is a bad idea. Best for both of them to leave the mocking caricatures to the GOP.

    Parent

    same link (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:19:15 PM EST
    both were in the same story by the Swamp.

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#31)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:24:57 PM EST


    Parent
    Ridiculous! (none / 0) (#24)
    by dutchfox on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:20:10 PM EST
    It's all getting pretty damned tiresome... on both sides. Sheesh.

    Didn't you know? (none / 0) (#34)
    by cmugirl on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:26:50 PM EST
    This is silly season!

    Parent
    It will be bitter indeed (none / 0) (#32)
    by blogtopus on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:25:43 PM EST
    watching mr. lightweight get his a** handed to him in the GE.

    I'm not a glutton for punishment, folks. I don't want to see Obama lose the election if he's the nominee. BUT that means he has to be able to actually roll with the hits... he's as stiff as a bamboo pole.

    C'mon Obama! Don't you realize if you are the nominee we want you to actually try to win? I don't see what it is in his life that gave him the idea that he was going to skate to victory in this election.

    Squeaky, seriously? Let's leave the 'Hillary is destroying Obama's chances in the GE' blather behind and tell me, honestly, does this come across as a person who can handle the heat in the kitchen? If not now, when? I WANT a dem pres, dammit; if Obama's momentum is too much for Hillary to overcome (or for the Super D's to overcome, that is), why won't he just brush these things off and attack McCain?

    Ugh. Hillary, hand me that beer. No, THAT one, yeah the big one. [gurgle gurgle]

    Not Me (none / 0) (#74)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:12:59 PM EST
    Squeaky, seriously? Let's leave the 'Hillary is destroying Obama's chances in the GE' blather behind and tell me

    You must be confusing me with a Obamamaniac, because I never said anything like it. What I said is that this stuff is better left to the GOP, and imo, it backfires, in that the dem mudslinger, be it Obama or Clinton,  will lose voters, rather than gain by resorting to obvious mudslinging.

    But the whole elitist thing was bad for Clinton to use, because I think most, apart from the Clinton fan blog sites,  do not see Obama as an elitist. Voters are sick of that sh*t especially used on their own.

    And I believe that McCain and the GOP will also lose if they try to label Obama as an elitist, because it is a worn out meme, and to most obviously is a stretch to put that label on Obama.

    Parent

    What evidence is there? (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by diplomatic on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:19:25 PM EST
    There is no evidence whatsoever that it's a worn-out meme.

    Let's wait for the votes.

    Parent

    The Evidence (none / 0) (#82)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:27:18 PM EST
    Is that Obama is not a stiff rich white guy. You can't have your Rev Wright and elitist at the same time. Obama is too complex to stereotype as elitist, and have anyone but the most ardent democrat hater or racist believe it, imo.

    Parent
    your reponse misses badly (none / 0) (#93)
    by diplomatic on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:31:28 PM EST
    Did you see my question?  Your comment centered on the premise that the overall meme of elitist Dems was played out, but I have yet to see any evidence of what you are asserting.  What national election has taken place where some Democrat overcame a substantial elitist narrative against them?

    Parent
    It will be applied to Senator Clinton... (none / 0) (#96)
    by Alec82 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:54:20 PM EST
    ...if she wins the nomination.  I don't think it is necessarily bad politics on her part, but a lot of so-called "Middle America" listens to slurs against "elitist" Northeasterners on conservative radio and in the press.  It is a brilliant meme, really.  It turned the GOP into the party of the common man overnight.  Too bad it is just a code word for bigotry and anti-intellectualism.

    Parent
    the Clinton family has been in the spotlight (none / 0) (#99)
    by diplomatic on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:11:58 PM EST
    they've been hit hard by the GOP and the media for over 20 years but calling them elitist has neither ever been much of a narrative nor has it been effective in any way against them.

    They called Bill "Bubba" afterall.

    Parent

    Well, we gotta laugh here (none / 0) (#120)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:51:45 PM EST
    whent the coastal folks do stuff like the NY Times' map of Milwaukee that put it in Minnesota.

    All those multisyllabic m-words from our first people, so pesky for the coastal folks.  And we're so unejjikated that they figured we'd never notice.

    And don't get us started on the Hollywood depictions of us Heartlanders in so many sitcoms. . . .

    Parent

    Elitist As A Meme (none / 0) (#134)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 01:43:10 AM EST
    For Obama will expose the GOP trick on its head. Worn out because trying to wrap it around Obama will remind those weary of BushCo how the GOP is FOS.

    Parent
    Huh? It's odd and almost racist (none / 0) (#115)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:42:58 PM EST
    to suggest that those in Rev. Wright's congregation could not be elitist, i.e., in the elites -- never heard of the "black elite"?  It's centered in the churches, just as in any other older community, where you can tell who's who by who's in which pew.

    Parent
    Almost? (none / 0) (#135)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 01:52:21 AM EST
    Sorry, nothing about Rev Wright is elitist. He is against elitism and quite vocal about it. It is hilarious that you attack Obama for being an out of touch elitist, clearly a negative while at the same time you ascribe a positive value to being elite by suggesting that I am racist to say Obama or other Rev Wright followers are not elite.

    Thanks for the laugh. I would lay off the kool aid if I were you.

    Parent

    He is a Harvard suit, (none / 0) (#123)
    by FlaDemFem on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:07:16 PM EST
    albeit with a tan. He condescends, he makes derogatory statements, he acts like he is above it all, he is a snob. That makes him an elitist, whether it is the stereotypical elitist or not. Barack Obama thinks he is so much better than everyone around him, and it shows. That alone will lose him the GE. He can't talk intelligently about policy, he confuses demeaning people with making political points, he does not have either the political skills or the strength of character to be the President of the United States. He is a rank amateur who has managed to get where he is without actually winning an election on his own merits. The primary he won for the state Senate he got by getting rid of the competition. When he ran for US Senate, he ran on a falsified political resume, courtesy of Emil Jones. His opponents in that race self-imploded due to scandals. So, this is the first REAL election he has had to actually win. He is not showing at all well. Expecting your opponent to drop out because you have a lead at the beginning of the primary race shows an unwillingness to hear what the voters have to say. He seems to think he is entitled to be the candidate rather than that he has to earn the privilege. Elitist?? You don't get more elitist than being so arrogant that you think you have the right to be President just because you are you. Obama is that arrogant. And he is an elitist.

    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#136)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 02:08:25 AM EST
    You have quite a distorted view, imo. Sounds downright hateful if you ask me. I will take the opinion of the Harvard Law Review over your kool aid distortions any day.

    You sound just as bitter as a Clinton hater to me, they have just about the same take with slight varialtion. Weird because even though both are more to the right than I would prefer there is little difference in their positions,  aptitude in bridging difficult partisan divides and experience as persons considered as other by the dominant powerstructure we live in.

    Parent

    I am going to have an (none / 0) (#40)
    by MarkL on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:33:53 PM EST
    Irish car bomb tonight, in Hillary's honor.

    Do we get the Bottle of wine video now? (none / 0) (#49)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:42:42 PM EST
    N/T

    Clever (none / 0) (#50)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:42:46 PM EST
    "Around election time, the candidates can't do enough. They'll promise you anything, give you a long list of proposals.....

    He phrased it in a way to make fun of himself as well, imo. Too bad he caved to the same old attack mode in the end. It would have been really smart included McCain's and his own pandering as examples of what "the candidates can't do enough" of. He would have left Clinton empty handed and diffused quite a bit of hostility.

    Blah (none / 0) (#51)
    by kayla on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:48:20 PM EST
    I didn't like Obama's comments, but gosh, this is getting tiresome and stupid.  This is the most annoying non-issue yet.  Neither campaign is getting anywhere with this (although I did think Hillary's response was pretty funny).  Hillary, get back to those policy proposals!

    She is goading him.. I have thoughtf (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by MarkL on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:57:14 PM EST
    for months that Obama's facility with zingers was a potential weakness, because he's too fast  on the trigger. Now I believe my theory is being borne out.

    Parent
    Oh, I agree (5.00 / 4) (#70)
    by kayla on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:09:56 PM EST
    that she's trying to goad him.  I actually think that's the reasoning behind some of Bill's more controversial statements, but I still think it's silly and really annoying.

    "You're elitist!"
    "No, you are!"
    "No. You!  I saw you eating expensive ham!!"
    "Nu-uh... I only eat bologna!  You're the one pretending!  You don't really drink beer or shoot guns, you... you... you Annie Oakley!"
    "Gasp!  I'm telling the Superdelegates on you!"

    Parent

    LOL (none / 0) (#78)
    by carrienae on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:16:01 PM EST
    LOL  


    Parent
    The Clinton machine knows what they're doing (none / 0) (#57)
    by diplomatic on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:55:29 PM EST
    Any other candidate/campaign would have already folded under this media environment.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#54)
    by kayla on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:52:42 PM EST
    That would have been a much better response.  And it would have made him look ridiculous and drew a better contrast between them and end this.  Honestly, one could argue that they're both elitist, at this point.  But I think we all know which one is the policy wonk and she could have highlighted it as a good thing...

    Not Hillary's Response (none / 0) (#58)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:57:09 PM EST
    Her campaign's.  Which she's responsible for, but it's not the same, in terms of potential opportunities, for her to sell her proposals.

    I Thought Hitting Back Was Good (3.66 / 3) (#69)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:09:23 PM EST
    Only to discourage Obama from trying it again.  This was twice in two days he's tried the "she's elitist, too" crap.  Given today's zinger, I'm not sure Obama will try it again or at least not in the same way.  

    But then I thought today's attack was particularly lame.  Accusing a politician of campaigning?  The horror!

    Parent

    Aaaaawwwww.... (none / 0) (#62)
    by carrienae on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:00:49 PM EST
    Obama just wanna have some drinks too after this weekend's chaos on his campaign. He is just bitterly jealous.
    Chug up tonight, bro.

    my grandfather (none / 0) (#68)
    by isaac on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:08:01 PM EST
    taught me how to shoot too, and i did find his remarks offensive

    I read a story about Hillary and (none / 0) (#75)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:15:19 PM EST
    John McCain and some others going out for some bipartisan cocktails after a hard day at the salt pits. They ended up doing vodka shots and Hillary drank everyone under the table. She showed no signs of inebriation, either. So, Sen. Obama, whatever you do, don't challenge her to a drink-off!

    Yes (none / 0) (#83)
    by stillife on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:28:48 PM EST
    on a trip to Estonia in 2004.  Supposedly, Hillary challenged him to a drinking contest.

    Parent
    Attack??? (none / 0) (#77)
    by robrecht on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:15:34 PM EST
    Just seems like some mild humor to me.

    Nope. look at the video (none / 0) (#86)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:39:53 PM EST
    He's dead serious.

    Parent
    stirring laughter from an audience of steelworkers (none / 0) (#121)
    by robrecht on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:52:56 PM EST
    If you post a link, I'll look at the video, but it seems like the audience understood it to be a humorous remark:

    "... stirring laughter from an audience of steelworkers ..."

    Parent

    Okay to be fair (none / 0) (#91)
    by standingup on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:13:18 PM EST
    Someone needs to tell Phil Singer the correct term is calf, not baby cow.

    Obama simply misses the point again and again... (none / 0) (#109)
    by white n az on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:38:06 PM EST
    His ego has gotten the best of him.

    His Annie Oakley commentary may have been popular with the faithful but a certain dud for everyone else. He would be wise not to reprise that.

    So then he morphs to ragging on her for doing exactly what he should be doing...getting out with the boys and chugging a beer...like an every day person and try to reel in that image of elitism that is killing him so.

    I wonder if he considered the hard work (none / 0) (#128)
    by nycstray on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:48:18 PM EST
    that women engage in. Especially the ones on the farms there? Is he really that clueless about women outside of his life?

    Parent
    Why does Obama (none / 0) (#116)
    by dem08 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:43:37 PM EST
    hate America?

    Obama's contempt for small town and the great gun lover-happy non-living wage residents contrasts so severely with Small Town champions like Hillary & Senator McCain.

    Hillary is just so authentic, and as you fans say you know where she stands: she loves guns.

    P.S. Hillary must win the nomination/presidency.

    In Western New York, where she is our Junior Senator, we remember her as an eloquent spokesperson for Gun Control. (Shshss! Don't tell the people in Pennsylvania, but it was one of her winning issues here.)

    She made clear she's for gun control (none / 0) (#119)
    by Cream City on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:48:57 PM EST
    but not gun eradication.  A commenter here from PA said they're fine with banning the guns that clearly are not meant for hunting but for mowing down humans by the dozens a minute.

    Parent
    I guess Bowling for Votes doesn't count (none / 0) (#125)
    by stefystef on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:18:15 PM EST
    And didn't I see him swilling back some beers in a Sports Bar during the Obama Magical Mystery Tour 2 weeks ago?  Are we supposed to believe that Obama loves going to the local gin joint and hang with the local yocals?  Now who is being patronizing?

    The more I see Obama, the more I dislike him.

    Obama Attacks Hillary for Having a "Shot and A Beer" | 133 comments (133 topical)

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