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By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:32:36 PM EST
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By Big Tent Democrat

Speaking for me only

This is offensive:

Rep. Geoff Davis (R-KY) on Obama: "I'm going to tell you something: That boy's finger does not need to be on the button. He could not make a decision in that simulation that related to a nuclear threat to this country."

Davis apologizes.

< SUSA IN Poll: Clinton By 16 | Obama Attacks Hillary for Having a "Shot and A Beer" >

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    Offensive | 198 comments (198 topical)

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    "That boy?" (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by madamab on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:34:34 PM EST
    A racist Republican. How...unusual.

    Meanwhile, I don't want McCain's finger within 4,000 miles of that button. At least Obama doesn't want to "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran."

    While I reject and denounce Obama's nasty tactics (none / 0) (#172)
    by dotcommodity on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:08:31 PM EST
    (I'm a dailykos refugee like some I see here) in this primary...., Woah!!!!

    the thought of McCrazy with that rage problem with his finger on the nuclear trigger when rousted at 3AM, is enough to drive ME right into the Obama camp, pronto!

    Give me calm cool and collected over the nutball anyday. That backfires, bigtime!

    [ Parent ]

    Anyone asked McCain. . . (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by LarryInNYC on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:36:37 PM EST
    to defend his supporter?

    Bingo (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:36:58 PM EST
    McCain must reject and denounce him.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, Adgarden, it really doesn't seem (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Joelarama on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:49:18 PM EST
    so bad after all of the racist things Hillary and her surrogates have done to Obama.

    Does it?  (Set your sarcasm meters to 11.)

    [ Parent ]

    Isn't it interesting (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:52:53 PM EST
    that some Obama supporters seem not to know real racism when they see it?

    [ Parent ]
    You are joking? (none / 0) (#46)
    by Marvin42 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:56:24 PM EST
    Right?

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, joking. (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Fabian on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:09:46 PM EST
    I've read seemingly hundreds of assertions that Clinton and her surrogates runs a blatantly racist and race baiting campaign.  Obama supporters seem to find racism/race baiting everwhere they look sometimes.  I half expect someone, somewhere to announce "CDIT!" - that's how jaundiced I am.

    Yes, it's offensive.  Yes, I am outraged.  Yes, I will send a politely worded email to the responsible party.  I'll do it because it's the right thing to do.

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry if I was being dense N/T (none / 0) (#107)
    by Marvin42 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:24:20 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    See my comment later in the thread. (none / 0) (#85)
    by Joelarama on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:14:06 PM EST
    You will see that I am joking.

    My point is that I'm afraid Obama's campaign and the big blogs (and all Democrats by extension, if he is our nominee) will reap what they have sewn by crying wolf over comments that were not racist, by fellow Democrats.

    Crying "racism" at every turn diminishes one's credibility when something truly racist comes along.

    [ Parent ]

    Blame the victim? (1.00 / 1) (#181)
    by debrazza on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:09:14 PM EST
    Are you sure that is the route you want to take?  Why not just take the high road and say that his comments are repugnant and leave it at that?

    [ Parent ]
    you have a point, but so does Joelarama. (none / 0) (#186)
    by kangeroo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 12:24:52 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    If you look closely you will see I am (none / 0) (#203)
    by Joelarama on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 04:18:22 PM EST
    not blaming Obama/the "victim" for the racist remark.

    I resent that.

    [ Parent ]

    Don't hold your breath... (none / 0) (#25)
    by madamab on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:43:59 PM EST
    AFAIC, he never denounced the supporter who asked him on videotape, "How do we beat the b**ch?"

    [ Parent ]
    He laughed at it (none / 0) (#53)
    by Jgarza on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:00:00 PM EST
    but after learning that he called his wife the "c" word, he prolly thinks the b word is a compliment.

    [ Parent ]
    One thing I've learned from Obama supporters (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:06:36 PM EST
    during this campaign, is that calling a woman the b word is perfectly understandable. Sad.

    [ Parent ]
    Very true (none / 0) (#93)
    by Josey on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:18:27 PM EST
    Great article - Sexism in the Primaries:

    >>>It happens when the news media dissect Sen. Clinton's every gesture, comment and mood. For example, journalists trade comments on her likability -- is she unemotional ("cold") or too emotional? They talk about the unacceptability of her laugh ("cackle") or the tone of her voice ("shrill").
    Yet, these same journalists overlook the physical aspects of the male candidates. For example, no one ever comments on Sen. Obama's widely placed ears or how he cocks his chin up in an arrogant sort of way when he talks. They never mention that one side of McCain's face is larger than the other or that he must read his favorite quote by George Washington from a card because he can't remember it. No, that would be cruel.

    http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=291138

    [ Parent ]

    I love it (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by mbuchel on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:26:00 PM EST
    A post about how a racist republican calls Obama "boy" and you manage to turn it into a slam against Obama.  Brilliant!

    [ Parent ]
    I didn't turn it into a slam against Obama (none / 0) (#167)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:03:23 PM EST
    I responded to a comment that decried McCain's approval of the b word used against Hillary, and pointed out that I've been shocked to see Obama supporters repeatedly approve of the use of that word, or use it themselves. So, if anything, I turned it into a slam against Obama's supporters, not Obama, many of whom I find to be hypocritical in their simultaneous outrage against racism and approval of sexism. Just to be accurate:)

    I also decried the racist comments made against Obama above. So, personally, I prefer to stand up and speak out against ALL forms of bigotry consistently. If you don't like that, then tough for you.

    [ Parent ]

    That is extremely offensive (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:36:40 PM EST
    I would be calling on Mr. Davis to resign, frankly.

    Yes, I find it very offensive (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:39:39 PM EST
    Referring to a U.S. senator running for president as 'that boy' is offensive.

    Not to mention (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:40:58 PM EST
    that 'that boy' is way smarter than that man.

    [ Parent ]
    What is really interesting... (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by dianem on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:42:02 PM EST
    ...is that this is the first time I've seen a blatantly racist statement about Obama in this campaign. I suppose that there is a slim possibility that he meant "boy" as "young man", and that he would have used the same phrasing if Obama were not black, but it's highly unlikely that a man from Kentucky would not be aware of the implications of calling a black man "boy".

    I take it for exactly what it sounds like (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:43:19 PM EST
    It's racist to the core.

    [ Parent ]
    No Doubt for Me (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by chrisvee on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:58:48 PM EST
    Davis's comment has to be the most blatantly racist remark I've heard this campaign.  I find it disgusting in the extreme.  I hope the Clinton and the Obama campaigns both come out hard against it.

    [ Parent ]
    The guy's an idiot (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by frankly0 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:42:29 PM EST
    and I just looked up his age: he's only 49 himself.

    49? (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by Kathy on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:48:48 PM EST
    Holy crap, there's no sugar-coating that.  I was thinking about my grandpa, who uses that word all the time, but at 49...that's just stupid.

    What a disgusting man.

    [ Parent ]

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t (none / 0) (#170)
    by Faust on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:14:01 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Here's that Congresscritter's (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by scribe on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:42:29 PM EST
    website, with a contact box (it looks like he uses a set of form "re" lines, and maybe a form letter.

    And here are the phone numbers:

    Washington:  phone  202-225-3465

    fax:  202-225-0003

    Washington office address:
    1108 Longworth House Office Building
    Washington, DC 20515

    District Offices
    Fort Mitchell District Office
    277 Buttermilk Pike
    Fort Mitchell, KY 41017
    (859) 426-0080 phone
    (859) 426-0061 fax

    Ashland District Office
    1405 Greenup Ave., Suite 236
    Ashland, KY 41101
    (606) 324-9898 phone
    (606) 325-9866 fax

    La Grange District Office
    108 W. Jefferson Street
    La Grange, KY 40031
    (502) 222-2233 phone
    (502) 222-4060 fax

    Maysville District Office
    Kenton Commonwealth Center
    201 Government Street, Suite 102
    Maysville, KY  41056
    (606) 564-6004 phone
    (606) 564-9355 fax

    Williamstown District Office
    City Building, Suite 145
    400 N. Main Street
    Williamstown, KY 41097
    (859) 824-3320 phone
    (859) 824-3340 fax

    You know what to do.

    I just called and a real (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by bjorn on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:54:59 PM EST
    young man answered.  I think everyone should call, I don't think his office is going to know what hit them!  He was very polite but also clueless.

    [ Parent ]
    Likely an intern (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:00:26 PM EST
    be nice and use this as a teaching moment for a young Republican.

    [ Parent ]
    I called, too (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Kathy on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:02:55 PM EST
    and the guy sounded really annoyed, so maybe other folks have called by now, too.  I complained about both attacks, by the way.  I'll probably be one of the very few doing that as sexism seems to go unpunished.

    [ Parent ]
    What did he say about (none / 0) (#63)
    by bjorn on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:05:53 PM EST
    Clinton?

    [ Parent ]
    About Clinton (none / 0) (#117)
    by Grey on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:29:23 PM EST
    Rep. Davis said this:

    "I hear she hasn't been this worried since a new Hooters opened" near her home with former President Bill Clinton, McConnell said, prompting laughs from the 400 Northern Kentucky Republicans.


    [ Parent ]
    how do (none / 0) (#124)
    by Jgarza on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:37:11 PM EST
    republicans find this stuff funny, it's so classless.

    [ Parent ]
    Correction (none / 0) (#150)
    by Grey on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:08:28 PM EST
    I attributed the comments made about Clinton to Rep Davis, but it was Sen. Mitch McConnell who made them.

    [ Parent ]
    I joined you in complaining about (none / 0) (#81)
    by RalphB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:13:17 PM EST
    both remarks.  Did sound a little annoyed so the phone must be ringing off the wall.   :-)

    [ Parent ]
    I think you need to call McConnell re sexism (none / 0) (#95)
    by fuzzyone on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:18:42 PM EST
    Unless I'm reading it wrong he is the one who made the Hooters comment (which seems less sexist than an insult to Bill Clinton, but whatever).

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, and be sure to (none / 0) (#38)
    by scribe on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:49:45 PM EST
    (1) be polite - after all, it's a staffer you'll get, and after the hundredth call, they will have heard all the variations everyone can think of as to why Congresscritter Davis' was out of line;  and

    (2) be grateful - Congresscritter Davis' being an a**h*ole and a closet-klukker at once is one of the greatest gifts the Rethuglicans could have given the Democrats.  He's gonna help unify us like our own party leadership never could have.  Remember, we might fight among ourselves, but we all get together to go after the guy from outside the family, who goes after someone in the family.

    [ Parent ]

    i agree with what you said, except (none / 0) (#187)
    by kangeroo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 12:33:03 AM EST
    for this: "He's gonna help unify us like our own party leadership never could have.  Remember, we might fight among ourselves, but we all get together to go after the guy from outside the family, who goes after someone in the family."

    obama is not family, because he treats hillary and her supporters like garbage.  this is not just a little family squabble.  to me it feels like somebody who i thought was my brother, but who instead turned out to be a complete stranger, gleefully kicking the crap out of me and then expecting my unconditional love in return.  no thanks.

    [ Parent ]

    Racism and sexism (5.00 / 5) (#22)
    by madamab on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:42:50 PM EST
    should be decried by both parties.

    No, Obama has not earned my respect, but he should not be the target of racist attacks either.

    Very offensive (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Foxx on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:44:36 PM EST
    And I expect all those who said nothing about the many misogynist attacks onh Clinton, to demand that she object.

    Click thru, McConnell got in a nice dig at (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Teresa on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:47:16 PM EST
    Hillary and Bill, too. What a disgusting group of Republicans at that gathering.

    [ Parent ]
    i'm sure NO obama supporters will (none / 0) (#188)
    by kangeroo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 12:36:38 AM EST
    step up to the plate to decry the attacks on hillary and bill.  after all, they joyfully launched them on their own.

    [ Parent ]
    Extremely (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by chrisvee on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:46:11 PM EST
    Yes, that's extremely offensive.  Let's see what McCain does.  He should immediately denounce him.

    Please click on the link.  It looks like BKJM missed this comment:

    As for Obama's Democratic rival, McConnell said U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York seems to be "teetering on the brink."

    "I hear she hasn't been this worried since a new Hooters opened" near her home with former President Bill Clinton, McConnell said, prompting laughs from the 400 Northern Kentucky Republicans.



    OMG (none / 0) (#49)
    by angie on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:56:56 PM EST
    this guy is an elected official.  What a joke.

    [ Parent ]
    One thing I've noticed when watching C-SPAN (none / 0) (#71)
    by madamab on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:09:38 PM EST
    is that the Republican Congresscritters are, for the most part, incredibly stupid.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, that is an example of a racist (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Joelarama on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:46:40 PM EST
    comment.  I notice that it comes from a Republican.

    If Obama is the Democratic nominee, it's unfortunate that the Obama camp and especially his supporters at the big blogs have cried wolf so many times on allegedly racist comments, from Bill Clinton to Ed Rendell.

    Yes this is racism, folks.  I'm sure the "bitter" rural voters, Northern "Archie Bunkers" and misguided, "diva-loving" women and queens, and miscellaneous Democrats-who-must-be-racists-because-they-do-not-support-Obama, all would agree.

    But, comments like these come off as just background noise after the big boy blogs' shrill accusations of racism against Democrats in the past few months.

    And, "boy" might seem a bit mild, after Kos and Aravosis' baseless and destructive accusations that Hillary's campaign blackened and widened Obama's face in a poltical video.

    Sorry, but there is nothing "mild" (none / 0) (#182)
    by debrazza on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:16:34 PM EST
    ...about calling a grown Black man a "boy".

    Why the need to equivocate and say that Obama deserves it?  Just rise above it for once.  Not everything needs to be viewed through the lens of the campaign.  I think your comments venture into blaming the victim territory.

    The comments are just awful, same with McConnell's.

    [ Parent ]

    i don't think you understand the (none / 0) (#190)
    by kangeroo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 12:45:08 AM EST
    extent of damage wreaked by the obama campaign.  as i said above, i think you have a point, but so does joelarama.  both racism and sexism have to be condemned--but for obama's supporters, it's only been a one-way street; they want our support in the face of adversity, but give none--and indeed, seem to relish inflicting pain and jumping in with other attackers.  so please don't be surprised when some of us are not in an eager mood to come to your defense.  with that said, it is an offensive statement and yes, davis should be condemned for it.

    [ Parent ]
    Ah. (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Kathy on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:50:45 PM EST
    Clinton was insulted, too.  Let's see where the outrage will be: over the racism or over the sexism.

    I'm taking bets.  Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?

    (what a great opportunity for contrast as to how one campaign handles a slur over another, though.)

    So he insulted both of them... (none / 0) (#52)
    by americanincanada on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:59:07 PM EST
    hmmm...if you denounce it then you have to denounce the sexism as well. If Obama can't do that then he should keep his mouth shut.

    [ Parent ]
    And Obama misses the point... (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by americanincanada on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:02:53 PM EST
    I really wish Obama would have made a different, even stronger statement, against this bigoted tool's remarks about both he and Senator Clinton. Oh well...

    "It's hard to tell what is more outrageous - Representative Davis' condescending and personal attack, or his absurd and offensive claim that Barack Obama is not prepared to defend America. Geoff Davis may hide behind offensive tough talk, but he has marched in lock-step with Bush-McCain policies that have devastated our national security while Barack Obama has stood up against a misguided war in Iraq and worked with respected Republicans like Dick Lugar and Chuck Hagel to secure loose weapons and nuclear materials from terrorists," said Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton.


    [ Parent ]

    lord, and there I was riding the unity pony (none / 0) (#133)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:48:23 PM EST
    So it is hard to tell which is worse, the racism or...the stuff Clinton has also been saying about me.  Nice pivot, Barack.

    [ Parent ]
    Unfortunately (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by CognitiveDissonance on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:52:39 PM EST
    Obama has been crying "wolf" so often in this primary at things the Clinton's have said that are supposedly racist - that it has gotten old. People are going to start yawning at these claims. Even worse, they're going to think that 8 years of having everything everyone says misinterpreted to be racist would just be too much to bear.
    I don't know about that (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by kayla on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:58:53 PM EST
    this is pretty bad.  This isn't race-baiting... this is racist.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, (none / 0) (#161)
    by nemo52 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:47:35 PM EST
    Undeniably, old-school racist.  And even though I am not currently supporting Obama, I decry this kind of language.  (The sexist remarks should be decried as well. QED

    [ Parent ]
    it is racist. but obama's supporters have (none / 0) (#192)
    by kangeroo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 12:50:38 AM EST
    wreaked unprecedented damages on the dem party.  i don't think you can underestimate how bad the damage is.

    [ Parent ]
    Good News (5.00 / 5) (#55)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:00:58 PM EST
    This jerk has a democratic challenger for November, Dr. Michael Kelly.  His website is a little thin, but he does talk about getting out of Iraq and fixing the healthcare system.  

    This Clinton supporter, who grew up in Kentucky, is going to throw $25 towards the Democratic nominee for KY-04 tonight to help Kelley or whoever is running against this racist tool in November.  

    I'm going to join you in that donation. (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Teresa on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:20:43 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Glad To Hear It (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by BDB on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:29:37 PM EST
    It's always nice when these creeps surface to help me decide exactly where to direct my limited resources.  

    And that apology was weak.  

    [ Parent ]

    Excellant idea (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:40:28 PM EST
    This is the best way to fight these guys.  Give them real consequences.

    [ Parent ]
    Horrifying (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Grey on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:01:13 PM EST
    What a disgusting, racist, ignoble thing to say.

    Absolutely offensive. (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by gmo on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:02:57 PM EST
    Referring to Obama, the african american front running democratic candidate for president, as "boy" is deeply offensive and racist.  Period.

    Whatever the spin some may try to put on this statement, sometimes the racist words that fall too easily from some people's mouths, words that are clearly historical markers of racism, are clearly indicative of who they are as people.  

    There's no room for spin on this one -- referring to Obama as "boy" has no wiggle room for a difference of age -- Davis is all of three years older than Obama!

    Unfortunately, Davis comes from the 4th District of KY, and I fear that this comment will be attributed not just to Davis, but to all the people of KY and the people he represents.   For that reason, I think Davis should step down immediately.  

    I don't need to know (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:08:10 PM EST
    what Obama has said about sexism towards Clinton to know that this is a racist comment.

    But no outrage by TPM or any Obama supporter (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:10:52 PM EST
    about this statement via the same article from McConnell

    "I hear she hasn't been this worried since a new Hooters opened" near her home with former President Bill Clinton

    Just the crickets.

    I'm sorry, but if they want outrage from me, they need to be equally outraged about the sexism as they are about the racism.

    Yes, it was sheer unadultered racism, but sheer unadultered sexism happens every single day, often via the 'librul media,' often at the hands of the same folks who are screaming bloody murder about this -- can you say "gelding, TPM?".

    This is disgusting (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by bjorn on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:14:39 PM EST
    Now I have to call him back and complain again...how did you miss this BTD?

    [ Parent ]
    That is offensive too (none / 0) (#80)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:12:49 PM EST
    Buuut, it is not nearly as bad imo.

    [ Parent ]
    Why BTD? (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by miriam on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:33:21 PM EST
    Why is mysognism not as bad?  It negatively impacts 50% of the population and Hillary Clinton has received worse specific comments on her gender than "boy" everyday.  Note, too, the number of males who say they will never vote for a female--how many women say they will never vote for a male?

    It will be a good thing when we recognize both sexism and racism as unacceptable.  

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah (none / 0) (#87)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:15:47 PM EST
    But it's not just that ONE.  The sexism happens every. single. freaking. day.  One comment on one day, no matter how bad is worse than the daily drip of utter misogynistic bullcrap that comes out.

    Grow a uterus, you'll then understand.

    [ Parent ]

    With all respect, I suppose us ladies (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Kathy on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:21:01 PM EST
    might make a case for calling it offensive that you only pulled the quote about Obama but left off the one about Clinton; however, we know you (inasmuch as you can on the internet), we have read your very fair posting history and we understand that you are a good guy and we cut you slack because of that.

    If you find it offensive that us women, after listening to Clinton being denigrated and nearly destroyed by false accusations of racism, are simply pointing out that Obama has cried wolf so many times that now, when there has really been a horrible slur by someone who is obviously racist, the charge carries less weight, then I guess we need to ask the same thing of you that we allow in return: cut us some slack.

    [ Parent ]

    Oops, meant to say (none / 0) (#99)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:21:10 PM EST
    Is NOT worse than the daily drip...one comment no matter how bad is not worse than the daily drip.

    [ Parent ]
    I have one... (none / 0) (#105)
    by CST on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:23:12 PM EST
    I find that comment offensive, tasteless, belittling.  Sexist?  I just don't see it.  Calling Hillary the b word is sexist, calling Bill a womanizer... not so much.  Although, I have noticed a significant generation gap (at least in my family) when it comes to views on gender relations, so maybe I am missing something.

    [ Parent ]
    When was the last time (none / 0) (#113)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:27:03 PM EST
    you saw the same kind of statement uttered about a man.

    It's misogynistic, disrespectful, and sexist.

    [ Parent ]

    That seems like a tenous comparison (none / 0) (#127)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:39:50 PM EST
    Bill Clinton's infidelity has been the butt end of a joke for 10 years.  He nearly was kicked out of the White House because of his infidelity.  

    There are a lot of Americans who find it a weakness to "allow" your spouse to cheat on you.  Doesn't matter which gender you are talking about.

    [ Parent ]

    Would he have said that (none / 0) (#114)
    by Kathy on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:27:47 PM EST
    to a man whose wife had cheated on him?  It would be considered the highest insult--just as it is when it is said about Clinton.

    For men, the word is "cuckold."  I don't know the word for women.  Probably best I don't.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree (none / 0) (#119)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:31:18 PM EST
    It didn't hit me as sexist. There have been worse things than that joke said about Hillary.  

    I choose to concentrate on this incident with Obama as if it happened on the first day of the campaign.  That way I can gauge my reaction without the interference of the last few months.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree - it's not sexist (none / 0) (#157)
    by dianem on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:28:42 PM EST
    It's demeaning to Clinton and quite tasteless, but I don't think it's sexist.

    [ Parent ]
    Just curious (none / 0) (#101)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:22:45 PM EST
    but why is that comment sexist?  It is a fairly obnoxious thing to say and crude but why sexist?

    Seems like he was attacking Bill by calling him a cad.

    [ Parent ]

    I guess what happened (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Kathy on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:42:31 PM EST
    with the Clintons is so much a part of our national psyche that it doesn't resonate anymore, but let's look at them as real human beings for a moment.

    She was absolutely humiliated by the affair and had all the salacious details thrown in her face when it happened, and now she is having them thrown back again.  Her daughter will hear this remark.  

    The only reason this a-hole brought it out was to humiliate Hillary Clinton.  He would not have done that to a man.  There are certain levels of deep disrespect that men like that only save for women.

    [ Parent ]

    It is hard for me (none / 0) (#138)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:54:06 PM EST
    to accept the notion that he would not have done that to a man when, just a few sentences earlier, he tried to belittle a man.

    I can see disgraceful.  I can see contemptuous.  I can't see sexist.

    There ARE fundamental differences in how we treat both genders.  But that doesn't mean that treating men and women differently equates to sexism.  

    We can never live in a society in which men and women are treated exactly the same nor would I want to.  

    [ Parent ]

    Wow (none / 0) (#144)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:58:23 PM EST
    Can I paraphrase you?

    We can never live in a society in which black people white people are treated exactly the same nor would I want to.

    No. I probaby can't.

    Do you see now?

    [ Parent ]

    Wow indeed (none / 0) (#158)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:29:31 PM EST
    skin color is a physical attribute that does not impact who you are in any way, other than the biases a society imposes upon you.  There is nothing a white person can do that a black person cannot.

    From birth your gender defines you.  Your entire upbringing is based on gender roles.  You are genetically predisposed to certain characteristics.  

    Perhaps you would prefer to live in an androgynous society but I do not.  


    [ Parent ]

    Turning that around.... again (none / 0) (#160)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:37:09 PM EST
    Sex is a physical attribute that does not impact who you are in any way, other than the biases a society imposes upon you.  There is nothing a man can do that a woman cannot.

    From birth your skin color defines you.  Your entire upbringing is based on racial roles.  You are genetically predisposed to certain characteristics.  

    Perhaps you would prefer to live in a post-racial society but I do not.  

    Do you see yet?

    [ Parent ]

    Are you being serious? (none / 0) (#166)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:45:15 PM EST
    Does anyone else agree with this?  

    [ Parent ]
    I certainly don't... (none / 0) (#171)
    by independent voter on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:44:40 PM EST
    racism and sexism are not the same thing.
    And I totally agree with you, I completely enjoy the differences between men and women. The spice of life

    [ Parent ]
    Yes (none / 0) (#180)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:37:55 PM EST
    I'm being serious about showing what your ingnorant statements look like when they're made about an issue you care about instead of an issue you don't care about.

    [ Parent ]
    LOL (none / 0) (#189)
    by flyerhawk on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 12:40:50 AM EST
    You think it's about what I care about?  Pretty funny stuff.

    If identifying the fact that men and women are not the same is ignorant, clearly I am an ignorant fool.  I'll just go on lusting after women anyway.  You can continue to claim there is no difference between the sexes if you like.  I for one find some pretty dramatic differences.  But that's just me.

    [ Parent ]

    There are some differences (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 12:50:17 AM EST
    Between black people and white people, too, aren't there?

    The question is how we allow those differences to devolve into prejudice and discrimination.

    And on that count, sir, what you fail to realize is that both women and black people face obstacles that white men don't face.

    By maintaining this "racism is worse than sexism" argument, you embrace a zero sum game, make people make a false choice.

    The primary never should have been about fighting over who gets discriminated against more -- black people or women -- but I do know that if it was about issues Obama never would have had a chance.


    [ Parent ]

    Hmmm... (none / 0) (#199)
    by Alec82 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 02:18:00 AM EST
    ...maybe as a gay man I would accept this meme if it didn't mean that other forms of open bigotry gets a pass while subtle forms are condemned (regularly) by candidates embracing identity politics.

     Both sides of the gender/racial media-created divide can follow this trail to a loss in November.

    [ Parent ]

    Actually no (none / 0) (#201)
    by flyerhawk on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 08:18:37 AM EST
    I made no qualitative judgments on which was worse, racism or sexism.  

    What I said was the fact that men and women are treated differently doesn't necessarily equate to sexism although it may.  

    There are some reasons why we treat the genders differently that innate to being human.  There are some reasons that are based on nothing but prejudice and bigotry.  We shouldn't conflate the two, which you seem to be doing.

    [ Parent ]

    You are davaluing one (none / 0) (#202)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 11:57:18 AM EST
    Against the other.

    [ Parent ]
    IMO it was an attack on both (none / 0) (#139)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:55:20 PM EST
    It was more overt with Bill; but it was also a dig at Hillary.

    [ Parent ]
    Certainly (none / 0) (#143)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:57:27 PM EST
    it was a jab at both of them, with Bill being the main target.  But I still don't see the sexism.

    [ Parent ]
    Seems To Me (none / 0) (#132)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:46:34 PM EST
    That the real sexism in the quote was the synechdoche 'Hooters'.

    [ Parent ]
    Any statement from Hillary yet about 'boy'? (none / 0) (#135)
    by Alien Abductee on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:50:24 PM EST
    I'm waiting.

    [ Parent ]
    She would be smart to strongly denounce it (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:56:49 PM EST
    Immediately.

    [ Parent ]
    Glad to see you did (none / 0) (#148)
    by Alien Abductee on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:07:21 PM EST
    But then I expect no less.

    [ Parent ]
    Why? (none / 0) (#137)
    by CST on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:52:49 PM EST
    She didn't say it.  She shouldn't have to comment.  It has nothing to do with her.  If she wants to respond to the attacks made at her thats fine.  It isn't her job to defend Obama, or comment on every stupid thing republicans say.

    [ Parent ]
    I agree with this (none / 0) (#140)
    by flyerhawk on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:55:41 PM EST
    she shouldn't obligated to make a comment about this.  However I suspect she will, since it costs her nothing.

    I would say that there were several people on this site condemning Obama because he wasn't vocal in condemning others for their words and deeds.

    [ Parent ]

    Isn't that what people here (none / 0) (#147)
    by Alien Abductee on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:05:45 PM EST
    are always demanding - that Obama should denounce every cr*ppy thing anyone says about HRC...and then excoriating him when he doesn't?

    I'll probably skip the excoriating part though if she fails to step up and denounce it. :)

    [ Parent ]

    are you kidding me? (none / 0) (#193)
    by kangeroo on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 01:00:17 AM EST
    i felt LUCKY when obama didn't milk bosnia for everything it was worth, because i've grown so accustomed to his jumping in and launching the attacks himself.  never, not for one second in my wildest dreams, do i ever imagine him coming to HRC's defense against an independent attack.  NEVER.

    [ Parent ]
    Hey, come join us (none / 0) (#149)
    by tree on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:07:42 PM EST
    on the Group W bench while we wait for Obama to comment on "pimp". I'm betting you won't have to wait anywhere near as long as we've been waiting.

    [ Parent ]
    Isn't that sweet? (none / 0) (#163)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:55:07 PM EST
    I love how Hillary is derided by men who ridicule her for putting up with Bill's womanizing. As if it's her fault. As if a huge percentage of men aren't unfaithful anyway.

    And before I get all the sanctimonious comments about how she should have left him, I simply will not listen to that stuff anymore. As if many, many marriages and relationships are not riddled with infidelity. People who get on their high horses and mock her for staying with him are so insensitive. Relationships are highly complex for the vast majority of people. Despite the pain of infidelity, some women stay, and apparently for a whole host of reasons:  extended families, children, persistent love despite the pain, and so on.  How can we know?

    Where is the compassion for a wife and daughter who were so hurt and so humiliated?

    [ Parent ]

    Not Just Men (none / 0) (#164)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:21:25 PM EST
    I know some otherwise very intelligent women who would not vote for Hillary because she stayed with Bill. The argument, which I do not understand, is that she was publicly humiliated by defending him while he clearly lying to her.

    I have had this argument against this position several times and at best the woman said, hmm,  I had not thought of that, but voted Obama anyway.

    [ Parent ]

    I know (none / 0) (#168)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:07:01 PM EST
    I don't understand it. Surely, everyone has either experienced the pain of infidelity or been close to someone who has. People handle it in all manner of ways. It's just none of our business, and certainly not up to us to humiliate Hillary and Chelsea even more. Thanks for your comment.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes (none / 0) (#197)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 01:36:12 AM EST
    It always seemed to me that couples that are able to move on after something like this are much stronger and wiser as a result. Forgiveness is something a leader needs to be comfortable with imo. It is a big positive for Clinton.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:11:06 PM EST
    That's bad.  Very offensive - no other way to take it.

    Racism is never OK no matter (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by athyrio on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:12:09 PM EST
    where it comes from....Glad to see all Democrats comdemning it....

    Stomach - turning (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by ruffian on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:13:57 PM EST
    I'm sure we'll get nothing but his excuses, but he needs to get out of my Congress.

    This reminds me why I'm a Democrat. (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Teresa on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:18:32 PM EST


    I cringe when I remember (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:22:53 PM EST
    that guys like this USED to be Democrats.

    [ Parent ]
    Unfortunately, we still have a few too. (none / 0) (#130)
    by Teresa on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:44:32 PM EST
    When I did phone banking for Harold Ford, everyone volunteered right up front that they were voting for Bredesen for governor but some wouldn't vote for Ford and would not tell me why. I figured if it was his family's reputation, they'd just say so, but they wouldn't give me any reason at all and would just hang up.

    It wasn't too many, but this was a list of Democratic primary voters, not Republicans. Really disappointing. Of course, I'm in the redneck part of Tennessee (I can say that since I'm from here).

    [ Parent ]

    IIRC, you're from the part (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:49:34 PM EST
    of TN where the white Republicans have always been Republicans. That's a rarity in the South. Were you perhaps calling west TN?

    [ Parent ]
    Nope, calling here in Knoxville. (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Teresa on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:21:12 PM EST
    This area has some quite moderate Republicans but also several areas where a black person wouldn't dare go. Some of the people from those two or three counties must have moved here. I didn't have anyone say they wouldn't vote for Ford because of his race but that was my impression. He did as well as any Democrat has done lately in East TN so maybe I'm wrong.

    [ Parent ]
    Is Wikipedia wrong when it says (none / 0) (#156)
    by andgarden on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:27:51 PM EST
    Historically, Republicans had their greatest strength in East Tennessee prior to the 1960s. It was one of the few areas of the South with a Republican voting history
    ?

    In any case, I'm sure there are plenty of racists throughout, as there are everywhere.

    [ Parent ]

    No, they're right. We fought on the Union side (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Teresa on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:53:08 PM EST
    too. It's one of the most Republican areas anywhere. We haven't had a Democratic congressman in about two hundred years. Most local offices don't even field a candidate against the Republican.

    I will say, many of the Republicans here are fairly moderate and not anymore racist than your average Democrat in this area. A black Republican could easily get elected in this area.

    I didn't mean to imply that East TN is racist because it is probably the least racist area of TN as far as I can tell. But we do have some. And we have the hillbillies galore. I have to call the UK some at work and even those folks know I'm from the south. I talked to a man in California last week and my accent made his day. I just can't get rid of it.

    [ Parent ]

    I was touring (wish I could link) (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by Molly Pitcher on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:40:43 PM EST
    the Tower of London and the Beefeater nearby interrupted the conversation and said, "You're from East Tennessee."  My family arrived in East Tenn. in 1792.  And my accent is still here after 47 years away, durn it!

    Confederates attacked Union soldiers at Fort Sanders in Knoxville, but Johnny Reb stayed out of the mountain area mostly--neither group was welcome because they took all the food.  Interesting tales about Gov. Ben Hooper, Repub., at Snopes, plus
    tennesseeencyclopedia.net/imagegallery.php?EntryID=K018

    [ Parent ]

    I didn't know you were in East TN. (none / 0) (#175)
    by Teresa on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:49:42 PM EST
    What part if you don't mind saying?

    [ Parent ]
    Tenn home (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by Molly Pitcher on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:02:09 PM EST
    I am over the mountains in South Carolina, where I have been stuck for 46 or so years--Ancestors are buried off highway 66 (?) near I-40.  But I grew up near Sharps Ridge (Whittle Springs).

    [ Parent ]
    Ah, so! (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Molly Pitcher on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:57:00 PM EST
    Ever hear of the Crumps down at the other end of Tennessee?  I'll take the rednecks and the hillbillies any day.  

    [ Parent ]
    lol, Molly, I've heard of them. (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Teresa on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:23:38 PM EST
    You should read the local papers about the political mess in Knoxville this past year. We even made the New York Times!

    I do prefer the mountains and people of East TN, I just wish there were more Democrats.

    [ Parent ]

    <