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Easter Sunday Open Thread

Is anyone online today? If so, and you've got something you want to talk about, here's the place. Some things in the news that caught my eye:

Hillary and Obama are resting up for the long haul. The Chicago Tribune says in the latest Rasmussen poll, there's something for everyone.

The Rezko trial is in recess until March 31, but Rezko is facing a new lawsuit over a house.

Former business partner and son of Nation of Islam founder Elijah Muhammad is accusing Rezko of taking ownership of Muhammad's house without his consent.

The lawsuit by Jabir Muhammad accuses Rezko of persuading Muhammad and his wife to put their home into trust with Rezko. The suit goes on to say that Rezko then took legal control of the home, which is in the Kenwood neighborhood.

I also found interesting this Boston Globe profile (pdf)of Barack Obama from January, 1990 when he was made Editor of the Harvard Law Review. A reader mentioned it in comments yesterday.

Rep. Barney Frank says we should decriminalize marijuana. As Instapundit says, don't count on support any time soon from Obama, Hillary or McCain. As I wrote last week, Obama is a serious flip-flopper on the issue.

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    I've been silently reading Talk Left (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by houser13 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:36:21 PM EST
    for a while now, and I've got to say, reading some of the posts and (especially) the comments on blogs like TalkLeft and Dailykos make me physically sick. It makes my head hurt, reading horribly unfounded personal attacks against the both candidates and no one speaks out, even though in the real world, saying these things would be totally unacceptable (unless you are on Fox News.) And then there's the hypocrisy. For example, just this week, Bill Richardson endorses Obama and suddenly I hear that he sexual harasses women, he's homophobic, and that he was the worst candidate running. And it's like, `how come I never heard any of these criticisms before he endorsed Obama?' And the same goes for Bill Clinton on DK. They used to worship the ground around his feet and now he's equivalent to the antichrist. But what makes me feel like I'm going to throw up is that you just know these hardcore Hillary supports will never vote for Obama in the GE and vice versa. These people are so filled with hatred that they are willing to sacrifice all their principles and personal beliefs out of spite, just because their candidate didn't get the nomination.
             But for people who feel the same way I do, there's one thing to remember that always makes me feel better: this is the internet. I've yet to hear this kind of radical talk in the real world from friends and coworkers and strangers. The vast majority of Democrats are not like those on TL or DK. They are rational people who understand the goal of this whole nomination process is to keep a neo-con like McCain out of the White House.
             And yet, blogs have become very influential as of late, especially for Democrats. And I fear that no matter who wins the nomination, the wounds that have been opened will not heal. But hopefully after the convention, as more B.S. spews from John McCain's mouth, the anger will subside on these "progressive" blogs and Democrats (along with us registered Independents) will be able to unite behind a single candidate, whether it be Hillary or Obama. Or Gravel.


    FYI (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by waldenpond on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:39:08 PM EST
    Comparing TL to Fox (if that's what you just did) doesn't go over very well.

    Parent
    Read the disclaimer (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:45:36 PM EST
    on the right side of our home page. It's clearly stated:

    TalkLeft is not responsible for and often disagrees with material posted in the comments section. Read at your own risk.


    Parent
    What are you talking about???? (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by kenosharick on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:28:29 PM EST
    While DK and americblog(and others) are terribly nasty, it is VERY civil here at TalkLeft. No name calling and such are tolerated- please do not lump this site with those; big difference in tone.

    Parent
    Not so fast (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Sunshine on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:43:38 PM EST
    I don't know what you were reading or what you thought you were reading but they don't talk like that on TalkLeft...  You might have been on Dailykos or AmericaBlog but you get deleted for that here, just ask me, I've been deleted....

    Parent
    you made me come out of lurkerdom (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by angie on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:41:34 PM EST
    Sorry, but I can't let this pass -- I've been lurking here since almost the beginning of the campaign a year ago and to compare this place DK is just plain wrong.  BTD & Jeralyn, while certainly having personal preferences for candidates, are always fair and the comments section here is very civil.  People here, unlike on DK, are mature enough to be able to agree to disagree.  This is why this place is a haven for someone like me (a Hillary supporter who will vote for the Dem. nominee in the GE whoever that is) -- I don't mind criticism of her as long as it is fair and as long as Obama gets his fair share as well when warranted.  
    And as far as Richardson not getting dinged before-- he wasn't an issue before with what, less then 2% of the vote before he dropped out.  And he is the guy before his endorsement of Obama who said SDs should vote how their state voted -- now, with his state voting for NM he is saying SDs should vote for who each thinks is best, not how their states voted.  Sorry if calling out him out for being a hypocrite offends some, but that is what he is.

    Parent
    Honestly? (none / 0) (#122)
    by jtaylorr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:07:48 PM EST
    New Mexico was 49% to 48%. I'm pretty sure that gives Bill carte blanche.

    Parent
    Either SD's vote their district or not (none / 0) (#127)
    by DandyTIger on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:24:11 PM EST
    whether the district votes for a candidate by .00001% or here 1%. It becomes quite ridiculous for the Obama camp to keep saying the SD's should do this or that when they have Richardson, Kerry, Kennedy and others. Of course those SD's that are politicians will be wary of voting against their district if there was a landslide, but in the end they should vote how they think. That's what it was (badly) designed for.

    Parent
    I think David Wilhelm says it worst... (none / 0) (#133)
    by joc on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:00:09 PM EST
    it would appear to me you are an obama (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by hellothere on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:14:16 PM EST
    supporter coming on here to whine! i am sorry that civil discourse it too much for your easily offended ears. hmmm!

    Parent
    Whining? Hardly (none / 0) (#150)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:36:17 PM EST
    It makes my head hurt, reading horribly unfounded personal attacks against the both candidates

    I have to agree. Attacking mainstream democrats is a poor tactic, and unecessary imo, (unless it Lieberman or a Republican wannabe) Sometimes the personal attacks on Obama get deleted but since there are so many of them, some manage to stay. Guess you have not noticed that Obama is called all sorts of things here. What have you called him? Fraud, does that ring a bell?

    But what makes me feel like I'm going to throw up is that you just know these hardcore Hillary supports will never vote for Obama in the GE and vice versa. These people are so filled with hatred..

    Isn't that your position? Everyone is entitled to vote or not vote as they please, but I have to agree with the commenter, doing anything that would help McCain is a sin as far as I am concerned and hearing that kind of talk makes me want to puke as well.

    Parent

    and everyone can state their beliefs which (none / 0) (#152)
    by hellothere on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:40:42 PM EST
    is what i did. by the way you are always defending obama all the while stating you voted for hillary. i have never seen you take offense at a slur at hillary on here. maybe i just missed it.

    Parent
    I think squeaky is just (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by tree on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 06:32:41 PM EST
    a contrarian, who likes to bash other posters, so he can feel superior. The majority of his posts include name-calling or personal attacks. He probably WAS bashing Obama supporters at an earlier point when they were more of a factor here. Now there are probably more Clinton supporters, so he can only feel superior to most of the posters here now if he bashes them and not the Obama ones.

       

    Parent

    thanks for the comment but that (none / 0) (#165)
    by hellothere on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 06:35:43 PM EST
    one was way over the top.

    Parent
    Yup (1.00 / 1) (#155)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:50:53 PM EST
    You just missed it. And I am hardly always defending Obama, it just seems that way to you because you are drunk on kool aid and the nut case Obama supporters have by in large disappeared or have been banned from TL.  It sickens me to see Obama slimed by supposed Democrats who think that sort of nastiness is going to help HRC. Maybe some of you are not Democrats at all but GOPers for HRC.

    Parent
    jeralyn, please take note of (none / 0) (#161)
    by hellothere on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 06:23:16 PM EST
    this post which is way out of line and a personal attack. thanks

    Parent
    seeing the bashing of a good candidate (none / 0) (#154)
    by hellothere on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:42:44 PM EST
    like hillary makes me want to puke. and i have not seen her campaign create the kind of faux bruahaha obama is always opining about either. she tries to stick to the issues. next!

    Parent
    First (none / 0) (#126)
    by tek on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:23:11 PM EST
    if you've never heard some of the things about Richardson you should read the news more.  As for Bill Clinton, no one on this blog criticizes him.  As far as Hillary supporters voting for Obama, some will, some will not.  That's an American's right.  I read on the other blogs frequently that the Obama people are not going to vote for Hillary and even that they are going to riot if Obama is not the nominee.

    People here do not smear either candidate.

    Parent

    I heard even Michael Obama said she will have to (none / 0) (#132)
    by TalkRight on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:56:00 PM EST
    think if she could vote for Senator Clinton in General Election if Clinton is indeed the nominee.. Now that is what you call "Classy"

    In case Bill Clinton or even Chelsea would have said the same.. they would have been crucified long back!!

    Parent

    actually, the sexual harassment charges (none / 0) (#169)
    by white n az on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 07:16:19 PM EST
    were stated elsewhere quite some time ago, not that I know much about them nor am interested in using them to discredit Bill Richardson and even Bill Clinton doesn't seem concerned about them because he watched the Super Bowl with Richardson.

    Blogs tend to be uncivil - some clearly worse than others and it's best not to personalize the comments.

    BTD and Jeralyn do an extreme amount of monitoring and removal of insulting and vicious comments. This makes TL more genial but clearly not a safe haven for those who can't handle strong opinions that they don't agree with.

    Only you can decide whether you belong or not.

    Parent

    I am a Hillary supporter, ex-Edwards (none / 0) (#179)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 08:07:04 PM EST
    supporter. When he dropped out, I switched my support to Hillary Clinton. If the Democratic party goes so far as to nominate an unqualified candidate such as Barack Obama, I will vote for him. I am a Democrat, and I support my party. Even if they want to send a green kid into a firefight with a seasoned battle group like the GOP smear machine. I have yet to see anyone on TalkLeft, who supports Obama, say that they will not vote for the Democratic nominee. Of course, I haven't read all the posts. You will find plenty of people who say that at DKos. I am a Kossack who came here because the level of vitriol at DKos was literally making me ill. I find the Obama supporters to be a bit off the beam. My own sister told me that if I can't see the TRUTH then I shouldn't vote. Guess who she supports? Right, Obama. I don't want a president whose supporters denigrate, sometimes obscenely, the supporters of the opposition. But, if that is what it takes to keep the GOP out, then I will vote for him. I personally think that the GOP is doing its level best to inflate Obama and encourage cross-over voting in the primaries because they don't want to take on Hillary in the GE. Once he gets the nomination, all the "crossover" support will evaporate like it was never there. And without it, he can't win. But, I will vote for the Democratic candidate, no matter who it is. I am a Democrat.

    Parent
    Ex- Greek/Eastern Orthodox.... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:37:56 PM EST
    Like David Sedaris said, this is faux easter.  We the Greek and other eastern orthodox, will wait till April 27th this year.  We will age our peeps a bit longer, but you will be invited for lamb, spanakopita, ouzo, tsatsiki, houmous, dolma, etc..etc..etc.  

    Love spanakopita, hate ouzo, (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:43:21 PM EST
    love retsina.

    Parent
    That is my test (none / 0) (#13)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:46:54 PM EST
    Retsian...ahh, I never mention it cause so people freak out.  I knew you are awesome.  Retsina, the sea, olives, bread, tomatoes and feta.  That is heaven.  

    Parent
    That's my idea of a hand to mouth existence (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Ellie on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:21:59 PM EST
    Greek olive oil really pops. It's the secret behind the success of every dish -- well not secret, as it just explodes out of the bottle with olive scented goodness. No wonder the gods hung out at Olympus.

    I love Greek bistro style eating: fresh veggies, cheese, olive oil, lemon, herbs warm pita to mop everything up and keep everything flowing until people start passing out.

    Then everyone dance.

    Therefore, my fake Easter (LOL) message is, people, why eat fake food? (Fat free yoghurt? Lite this, cal reduced that.) What's the goal here: consuming food that's intentionally worse than it should be so you get to have more of it??

    Blech, just eat slightly less of the real stuff and dance more.

    Parent

    Kalamata, I presume. (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:18:58 PM EST
    but of course (none / 0) (#35)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:24:25 PM EST
    with some odd homemade ones thrown in.

    Parent
    I love OPA! in an all appetizers meal (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ellie on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:28:35 PM EST
    You can hang out from sunrise to sunset and just have appetizers and be happy as a Corfu clam.

    I don't have Greek characters on my keyboard but it's my understanding that saying Opa means f--k my cheese is on fire!

    Parent

    Saganaki... (none / 0) (#43)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:37:00 PM EST
    Opa is what we say when you dance.  

    All time favorite essence of dancing....life...etc.  This will make you happy...forget the ethnocentric tag on the link.
    Teach me to Dance

    Parent

    The first time I ate in a Greek restaurant.... (none / 0) (#51)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:46:48 PM EST
    ...what I loved most was the bread. It was the best bread I'd ever tasted.

    Parent
    I love that clip (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ellie on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:54:15 PM EST
    Ahhhhhhh, the food, the dancing, a hundred thousand different shades of blue in the Grecian sky and sea. It makes me want to be in Greece right now.

    Parent
    faux Easter -- love it! (none / 0) (#113)
    by angie on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:45:57 PM EST
    Greek Orthodox myself -- never heard faux Easter before but I'm using it from here on out.

    Happy faux Easter all!

    Ok-- I'm going back to lurkerdom.

    Parent

    Sitm stay! We didn't even get to the baklava yet (none / 0) (#118)
    by Ellie on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:02:57 PM EST
    4 out of 5 dentists recommend it as great for business.

    Parent
    I would kill for some tsatsiki right now (none / 0) (#149)
    by BrandingIron on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:33:48 PM EST

    I bought lemon pepper chips but I've no tsatsiki... :(

    Parent
    Passport Donor scoreboard (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by ding7777 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:23:34 PM EST
    According to Open Secrets: Obama's passort CEO and consultant gave Obama $2300 -  

    BRENNAN, JOHN THE ANALYSIS CORPORATION/PRESIDENT
    on 1/28/2008 gave $2,300 to Obama.

    I believe that HRC (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by ruthinor on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:49:06 PM EST
    made more than one stop in Bosnia.

    I did some research on Lexis Nexis last night (5.00 / 6) (#131)
    by standingup on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:45:19 PM EST
    The trip she made to Bosnia was on March 25, 1996.  I can't find anything in the press reports that supports the exact account that Hillary has recollected but Sinbad's account might be underscoring the risk too.  She did visit two outposts outside of the base camp in Tuzla without the celebrities there for the USO tour.  

    Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal "thank you, thank you, thank you" to U.S. troops.
    ...
    But this was a day of celebration and celebrities - a day for the U.S. troops helping to uphold the Bosnian peace accord. Mrs. Clinton hosted a USO show with comedian Sinbad and singer Sheryl Crow and briefly addressed the gathering.
    ...
    But the highlight of her trip were visits to two fortified posts outside the U.S. base in Tuzla. Even President Clinton, restricted to the base by bad weather in January, did not see as much of this war-wracked region as Mrs. Clinton did Monday.
    ...
    Riflemen rushed to the brush line as the helicopter landed and surrounded her as she walked into the post. Located in a "separation zone," the U.S. outpost nestles between two tree lines. Just months ago, one was Serbian territory, the other Bosnian.

    Security was tight - fighter jets accompanied her C-17 cargo plane to Tuzla - but officials said the first lady took no extraordinary risks on the trip.
    Lexis - By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press, March 25, 1996

    Another report:

    THE First Lady of the United States, Hillary Clinton, visited her country's troops at their fortified outposts in north-eastern Bosnia today and said their peacekeeping work was "extraordinary to behold".

    Mrs Clinton's helicopter flight to Camp Alicia, home of a mechanised infantry outfit and a combat engineer batallion 15 miles east of Tuzla, took her over burned out villages and farm houses whose roofs had been blown off in the fierce fighting before last December's Paris peace agreement ended the 43 -month-old war in Bosnia.

    A machine gun emplacement guarded the entrance of the outposts and marked Bosnian minefields were visible outside its perimeter.
    ...
     After lunch with the troops in a makeshift dining hall surrounded by sandbags, she flew on to Camp Bedrock south of Tuzla to visit an army field hospital.

    Mrs Clinton, who later returned to Tuzla for a show starring singer Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad, said she was "amazed at how much has been accomplished in such a short period of time" by US troops in Bosnia.
    Source - Lexis - The Herald (Glasgow), March 26, 1996

    And she did spend some time in the cockpit ;-)

    So it was probably no accident that the C-17 pilot was a woman, Capt. Cheryl Beineke of Ohio. She is among just four female C-17 pilots out of about 100 in the Air Force.

    "I'm loving every minute of this," the pilot said after Mrs. Clinton spent several minutes in the cockpit.
    Source - Lexis - By RON FOURNIER, AP International, March 25, 1996



    Parent
    Excellent digging -- and wow, those are (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by Cream City on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:17:16 PM EST
    fairly scary accounts even to read.  Interesting, too, that the great source Sinbad wasn't along on a lot of the trip.

    Parent
    Thank you (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by standingup on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 07:40:35 PM EST
    I thought it was great that they chose a female pilot for the flight too.  

    Parent
    but, but sinbad said! (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by hellothere on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:33:42 PM EST
    Sinbad said what? when? :) (5.00 / 2) (#162)
    by nycstray on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 06:23:17 PM EST
    "Singer also cited a Kansas City Star article from September 2000 that quoted Sinbad as describing the situation in Bosnia as "so tense. It was Crips and Bloods." (And that's how Sinbad continued to characterize the situation in our interview Monday. He said, "At the time, we didn't realize how crazy it was between the Bosnians and the Serbs. I didn't realize how much hate was going on.")"

    http://tinyurl.com/2ol5ob

    he's def a huge Obama supporter . . . .

    Parent

    yup, i got that impression from watching (none / 0) (#166)
    by hellothere on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 06:38:48 PM EST
    an interview. on his particular trip that might well have been true, but as was pointed out hillary was over there other and more dangerous circumstances.

    Parent
    Here's an interesting overview (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by nycstray on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 07:16:55 PM EST
    of some of her FL work:

    http://tinyurl.com/2ycf2f

    Diplomats Back Clinton's Foreign Policy
    The Clinton campaign is releasing a letter today signed by 32 former U.S. ambassadors and diplomats who served while Senator Clinton was First Lady that attests to her unique foreign policy experience.

    somewhere either above or below I also posted a NYT article of another 'trip' she took, written at the time.


    Parent

    Interesting (none / 0) (#175)
    by standingup on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 07:43:55 PM EST
    Now I'm going to have to go back to Lexis to see what articles come up with comments from Sinbad.  

    Parent
    great work! (none / 0) (#202)
    by GDKitty on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:07:52 AM EST
    That's some excellent research--I've added it to my bookmarks :)

    Parent
    Excellent. (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by BrandingIron on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:37:08 AM EST
    Also might want to add this, even though it came from a WaPo article that gave the story 4 "Pinocchios":

    UPDATE Friday 6:45 p.m.

    Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton's chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her "vivid recollections" of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below:

        I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17-- a plane capable of steep ascents and descents -- precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.

    Parent

    Thanks! Is this all? See noquarterusa.net also (none / 0) (#204)
    by 1950democrat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 03:00:34 PM EST
    Very good work and sensible approach, thanks!

    Lots of good info has come out at noquarterusa.net also, from ex-miliary people.

    I can't believe there are only a few comments right here. This should be a big feature somewhere, digging out the scraps of solid info and sorting them out and piecing them together.

    It looks like reports of the several stops were confused. People are applying the performer's word to side trips he wasn't even along on!


    Parent

    Another twist to Rezko .. (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by TalkRight on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:14:28 PM EST
    biggest bundler... (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:17:43 PM EST
    Yet, Obama did not know about his "failed buildings" in Obama's own district.  Now that is caring about your people.  Gotta love it.

    Parent
    If you are going that far back (none / 0) (#86)
    by jtaylorr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:20:11 PM EST
    then I suggest we also talk about Norman Hsu.

    Parent
    Hsu gave money to both Obama and Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:25:18 PM EST
    and, as far as I know, there was no personal relationship between Hsu and the Clintons like there was between Rezko and Obama.

    Parent
    If You Want To Talk About Norman Hsu, (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by MO Blue on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:33:32 PM EST
    maybe we we should talk about his contributions to Obama.

    Parent
    red herring (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:36:29 PM EST
    discussed and dismissed many times here. Don't bother. No personal relationship to a candidate, no involvement in politics other than raising money and donations to both campaigns.

    Parent
    Was there a point that I'm missing (none / 0) (#135)
    by dannyinla on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:04:06 PM EST
    to the mention of Rezko and Elijah Muhammed's house?  Other that a tertiary connection to Obama I can't imagine why you cited this.

    Parent
    If you think there's a point (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by BrandingIron on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:39:28 PM EST

    then there probably is one.  Obama, Rezko, Muhammed,  Wright...leads to the NOI.  Isn't that what's being "unsaid" here?  But what happens if/when it turns out to be true?  I predicted the Wright thing would lead to more talk about the NOI and a possible Obama connection (particularly because of the Wright/Farrakhan thing).  And if that ever blew up, G-d help Obama's hopes.

    Parent
    Yes... a whsipering campaign (none / 0) (#197)
    by dannyinla on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:21:15 AM EST
    that leads to the NOI.

    Answer me this. Will this country ever be allowed to have a black president? Or will all candidates now be subjected to the whsipering campaign that they or someone on their staff or someone who donated to them or someone who went to their church or sat on a panel with them is connected to the NOI (or the Weather Underground or the NBPP).  

    Because I pretty much bet that the GOP can connect any succesful black politician to the NOI... and if they cannot, then they will begin a whispering campaign in order to imply that connection.

    So yes, you are correct, when you write "If you think there's a point, then there probably is one."  I am just disappointed that it comes from the Left.

    Parent

    the point is that Obama said that his relationship (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by TalkRight on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:37:55 PM EST
    was just 1 of the thousands of contributors .. but now it seems it was more than that.. not only that he talked with almost every day during those times.

    Parent
    That far back? His current term? (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by nycstray on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:48:32 PM EST
    Uh, and how far back does the Obama campaign want to go on Clinton?

    Parent
    my thing about Rezko... (none / 0) (#106)
    by Josey on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:38:08 PM EST
    is that Sen. Obama sought his financial help knowing he was the target of a federal investigation.
    But why did he choose Rezko?
    Didn't Obama have other wealthy donors to assist him - who weren't being investigated?
    Or maybe they weren't interested in buying a garden plot just to help Obama?

    Parent
    While some suspect (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by standingup on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:03:44 PM EST
    Obama sought financial help from Rezko, hat has not been established as a matter of fact.  

    Parent
    How did the 2 team up for Obama's house? (none / 0) (#174)
    by Josey on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 07:42:02 PM EST
    reminds me of the time (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by english teacher on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:15:04 PM EST
    all the experts on typewriter technology suddenly appeared from nowhere.  

    Aww, (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by BrandingIron on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:29:12 PM EST

    but Jabir used to be really good friends with Rezko.

    Here's something that (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by sas on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 06:22:43 PM EST
    really bugs me:

    I have never heard Obama saying anything about a unified Democratic party in November if Hillary gets the nomination.

    I have heard her say that about him several times.
    Also Michelle was less than enthusiastic, very less than enthusiastic about her possible support of Hillary.

    Are these people even Democrats?  Then I read that Barack supports the partial privatization of Social Security - as Bush also did, although maybe not exactly the same way.

    Can this be true?

    I may be just an old cynic, but I think (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 10:09:13 PM EST
    that Obama is a Democrat because the GOP won't field a black candidate. I think he joined the Wright church because he wanted to get ahead in Chicago politics, and without a firm base in the African-American community he had no chance of doing that. I think Obama's entire career is not about public service, it's about his own ambition.

    He has done little to fit himself for the presidency, not even holding meetings of his own committee. Charisma won't get the job done with out the political and policy chops to back it up. He doesn't have that. He seems unable to think on his feet, the "uh" factor, he has no firm policies for any of the problems we are facing right now. All he seems to have is hopes and dreams. Well, they won't deal with the deficit, the war, the poverty problem, the environment, etc. And one thing I must say, he is the only candidate who has studiously avoided discussing policy. Makes me wonder if he has any.

    I think Obama is an opportunist who has no qualms about using the history of blacks in America as a campaign tool, even though it has nothing to do with his own familial history. I find it weird that he goes to a church that displays such anger and hate over slavery and the subsequent disenfranchisement of black people under the Jim Crow laws when no one in his family was ever a slave. The people in that church have a right to be mad, a real right to be mad, he doesn't. I doubt Barack Obama has ever been stopped for being the wrong color in the right neighborhood. I know that no one in his family was ever lynched or denied service because of their color, had to walk blocks to the nearest colored drinking fountain, or any of the other things black Americans carry in their heritage, some even to this day. He has had what is basically a free ride, thanks to his white mother and grandparents. Why he would join a church like Wright's, other than political expediency is a mystery. There are plenty of black churches in Chicago, most of them not based on hating someone for their race. He could have joined one of them, but he didn't. Of course, they weren't as well known as Wright's and did not have the same political connections. Well, now he has to live with his decision. I wonder who he is going to blame for it.

    Parent

    The Republican party fields (none / 0) (#185)
    by white n az on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:42:45 PM EST
    a few black candidates...

    Ken Blackwell
    Michael Steele

    I'm sure there's more.

    The fact that he's gotten this far without actually revealing much about who he is and what he believes is clearly an accusation of the thought and process of our candidate vetting.

    What we have allowed the main stream media do is define the rules (personality above all else), and the substance (little) and they control this by virtue of the fact that without television exposure, you can't raise money, you can't reach enough people to be viable.

    I'm not gonna touch the rest of your comment with the exception of the last sentence because CDS rules dictates who gets the blame for everything that goes wrong.

    Parent

    Should have said National GOP (none / 0) (#188)
    by FlaDemFem on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:33:27 AM EST
    they do field some black candidates in state and local elections, but few in the national ones and none in the Presidential GE.

    Parent
    The curious thing about... (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by white n az on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 07:21:22 PM EST
    Jabir Muhammad and Rezko is the circle of friends thing and the tie-in to Tim Russert's question in a debate a few weeks back.

    We were all outraged how Russert pressed Obama to renounce/reject Louis Farrakan thinking that the connection to Farrakan was via Jeremiah Wright.

    But the circle closes even tighter because of Rezko and if Rezko is so tight with this group that he finances properties for the Black Muslim's in Chicago and is so close with Obama that he buys adjoining property, then the web is much more tangled than it ever appeared.

    It also looks like Russert's questioning wasn't as over the top as it appeared to be when it happened.

    Does anyone else see 527 stuff here...Obama's Circle of Friends...

    Another AA minister speaks... (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 08:21:10 PM EST
    This is hillarious....I guess there are loads of tapes of this guy...on the generational fight in the Black community.  

    Enjoy

    video

    I'm sorry... (none / 0) (#186)
    by white n az on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:46:28 PM EST
    I didn't find it hilarious at all. I found it hopeful that there are serious people willing to seriously discuss racial issues and they don't all feature the primacy of Barack...and I agree with the speaker in your link.

    Suggesting that it's hilarious though undermines the fact that this preacher is indeed serious.

    Personally, I don't see if/how/when Barack Obama has offered anything that will substantively change the issues of race at all...except to address how it affects HIS candidacy.

    Parent

    Hillarious... (none / 0) (#187)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:11:16 AM EST
    Why Hillarious....well, cause of all the ranting about race and this man tells it in a very straight and frank fashion.  I found myself laughing out of glee of hearing him say these things.  That is the hillarious that I meant.  

    Sorry if you took if it was awkward.  

    Parent

    Hillary's "whopper" about Tuzla (3.00 / 1) (#27)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:16:30 PM EST
    This video is interesting....She is not telling the truth about her landing in Tuzla.  

    Um, not necessarily.... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by otherlisa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:21:01 PM EST
    Watch the video (3.00 / 1) (#41)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:33:07 PM EST
    She says there was no greeting and they basically ran for their cars...The video shows she and Chelsea and many others calming walking across the tarmac being greeted on T.V. by a little girl, the acting President of Bosnia and numerous other people.....

    Corksrew landing is the least of the problems with her completely fabricated account....and she wants to bring this up in a campaign against John McCain who has real video showing him a POW?

    The sheer arrogance in sticking to a lie....No explanation, no suggestion that maybe she recalled the danger differently than others....She doubles down`and continues with a fable....

     

    Parent

    I like how (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:42:09 PM EST
    Huffington post is cited as a credible source.


    Parent
    The Washington Post (3.00 / 1) (#56)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:49:48 PM EST
    gave her "four Pinnachios".....

    The Baltimore Sun said it was a "whopper."

    Parent

    I know (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:14:29 PM EST
    And Keith Olbermann scolded her on National TV.


    Parent
    Do I understand this correctly? (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by badger on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:47:27 PM EST
    You want me to get worked about what may be a lie told by a politician that's neither about a substantive policy issue or likely to affect the campaign either way? Someone padded their resume'?

    Seems like the Obama campaign is getting desperate if that's the best you have.

    Parent

    Ok...so what? (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:56:04 PM EST
    Point...she was in Bosnia and many other countries.  Maybe they told the first lady about the landing danger and did not tell the comedian cause the pants Sinbad wore at that time were not big enough to hold the outcome from his fear and she could handle it.  

    Now, whatever you guys try to say, she was in Bosnia.  Barack was not.  She was in all those other countries on state and policy visits.  Barack was not.  She is a smart and engaged person.  She learned how to behave, how to act, how to represent America.  That is experience.  

    The street urchin fabrication was revised with the goat herders son  is all part of the Obama story-- cause street urchin friends could be radical islamists, but kids who go to upper class private schools in Indonesia are not.  Same gyration with the church.  He had to prove he was Christian, then the Christian church turned out to be not so convenient.  
    (memo, choose Episcopalian next time)

    Parent

    Memo (3.00 / 1) (#71)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:04:55 PM EST
    about choosing churches....Yes, joining an old line, conservative church would be politically expedient....

    Parent
    under no conditions is attending (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by hellothere on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:30:21 PM EST
    a church that daxxx america ok when you want to be president of that country. or gushes hate for the white race which happens make up a majority of that country!

    it may be just hokey dokey with you but i don't think the "typical" american will agree.

    Parent

    The G-D sermon (none / 0) (#191)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:14:47 AM EST
    doesn't make me angry; it profoundly saddens me....In the wake of Katrina, I tend to think there is another reality out there that white America does not want to see.

    One sermon with G-D in it does not a church make....

    Parent

    Hmmmm (none / 0) (#199)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:03:45 PM EST
    What did Katrina prove beyond the fact that a bunch of people think the government is supposed to give them a place to live, and it must be where they want it.

    Parent
    You learn that in the third grade (3.00 / 2) (#75)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:10:18 PM EST
    She learned how to behave, how to act, how to represent America.  That is experience.
     

    Parent
    If that's the case (none / 0) (#178)
    by tree on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 08:01:52 PM EST
    then there are a awful lot of second graders in the MSM and on blogs these days.

    Parent
    I can't argue with that. (none / 0) (#200)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:04:13 PM EST
    So what? (2.00 / 1) (#70)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:02:40 PM EST
    That generally seems to be the response...Hillary makes up a story today to boost her foreign policy credentials....and it is so what....

    What is remarkable is that no one is really surprised--it is not news that she made something up.....

    It is central to her argument about being ready on day one....and it is based on fabrications....

    Barack wrote in 1990 about being street urchin...and that has great import?

    Parent

    You misunderstand. (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by MarkL on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:08:14 PM EST
    It's your charge of lying we don't care about, but that doesn't mean we believe you are correct.

    Parent
    You have no evidence (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:16:13 PM EST
    that she made up what you say she made up.  You pick something you gyrate, shake and bake and get all in a tizzy.  

     

    Parent

    I have posted (3.00 / 1) (#88)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:24:40 PM EST
    video of her landing in Tuzla and her comments regarding that landing.....That is evidence she made it up.....

    Parent
    Are (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by tek on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:07:32 PM EST
    you seriously saying you don't think Hillary Clinton will be ready to lead this country on day one?  Even if she's not your candidate, you should admit she is capable of being a strong leader.

    Parent
    great import? street urchin? it was a lie! (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by hellothere on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:28:23 PM EST
    biography? no! truth? only in part! i forgot he says.yeah, right, sure! at least hillary went to bosnia. obama hasn't even been to europe except for stop overs. he hasn't held one meeting an important plum committee he was given. he was "too busy". whining AGAIN!

    Parent
    Obama's Congressional Travel (none / 0) (#201)
    by AdrianLesher on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:45:00 PM EST
    According to Wikipedia:

    As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. In August 2005, he traveled to Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan. The trip focused on strategies to control the world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons, and weapons of mass destruction as a first defense against potential terrorist attacks.[63] Following meetings with U.S. military in Kuwait and Iraq in January 2006, Obama visited Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian territories. At a meeting with Palestinian students two weeks before Hamas won the legislative election, Obama warned that "the U.S. will never recognize winning Hamas candidates unless the group renounces its fundamental mission to eliminate Israel."[64] He left for his third official trip in August 2006, traveling to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad. In a nationally televised speech at the University of Nairobi, he spoke forcefully on the influence of ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.[65] The speech touched off a public debate among rival leaders, some formally challenging Obama's remarks as unfair and improper, others defending his positions.[6


    Parent
    and you know this is the particular trip (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by DandyTIger on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:04:15 PM EST
    she was referring to how? Unless you know which of the Bosnian trips she was referring too, how can you suggest this. Oh I know, given the amount of experience your candidate has (none), you can't imagine someone would have many trips to the same place.

    Parent
    Mixing up trips (3.00 / 1) (#128)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:28:00 PM EST
    would be a potential explanation....

    However, Hillary has not gone there.....She and her supporters are sticking with the story of her landing in 1996 in Tuzla....So, Hillary after having been challenged on this (as far back as Sinbad's comments), continues with a fabrication that has been fully exposed by a video.

    Parent

    is the AP lying about Hillary's trip? (none / 0) (#177)
    by Josey on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 07:53:35 PM EST
    or is the JedReport lying. Ron Fournier is a well respected AP reporter...

    http://www.talkleft.com/comments/2008/3/23/14293/1085/131#131

    Parent

    That is quite an article from the Globe (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:34:14 PM EST
    "I thought, 'This guy sounds like he's president of the country already,' " said John Owens, a former co-worker from
    Chicago, during a telephone interview. "I've never met anyone who could leave that impression after only five minutes."

    It seems that he's been having that effect on people for some time.

    the street urchin... (none / 0) (#8)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:39:40 PM EST
    I love that...

    Parent
    It was a Philly Inquirer story (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Cream City on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:08:33 PM EST
    in an earlier thread, in a comment from Exeter, that seemed truly strange -- as the story (2/27/90) had Obama calling HIMSELF a "street urchin" in Jakarta:

    "Barack Obama, former street urchin and the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review. . . .  He thinks it all goes back to the years when he was a nomad of the streets and his friends were a pack of urchins living in Jakarta, Indonesia. . . . The lessons he had learned on the streets of Jakarta kept haunting him. . . ."

    As Exeter wrote, "I don't remember ever hearing this before. It was my understanding that his step father was a wealthy oil company executive and that they had lived a large home, had servants, etc."

    How many different stories have we heard now from Obama about his most formative years?

    Parent

    I saw Obama talking about his stepdad (none / 0) (#24)
    by zyx on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:11:29 PM EST
    on teevee some time back somewhere.  I don't remember what show he was on, but I guess he was talking about any rumors that his stepdad was some kind of radical Muslim or something like that, and he said the guy was all about sipping cocktails at the country club.  

    Parent
    If we go down this road (none / 0) (#34)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:24:04 PM EST
    then certainly one should take a look at Hillary's "heroic" landing at Tuzla under "sniper fire."

    The video shows her being greeted by a large group and the acting President of Bosnia....What a big lie.....

    Parent

    Not so clear-cut (none / 0) (#37)
    by otherlisa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:27:05 PM EST
    There was only one (none / 0) (#48)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:42:49 PM EST
    landing in Tuzla....There was only one airport in Bosnia that could have taken the type of plane she was flying on....

    Sinbad was on that flight...he said it was not dangerous....

    Parent

    Remember Gore, Texax and FEMA? (none / 0) (#38)
    by MarkL on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:28:08 PM EST
    This nonsense over Hillary's lie is exactly parallel to that; a big fuss over nothing, obscuring the important fact, which is that Hillary was in Bosnia.

    Parent
    Hillary says she was (none / 0) (#45)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:39:39 PM EST
    landing under sniper fire and ran for the cars and that the greeting had been canceled.....The video shows the opposite....

    Hillary says it was about going places where it was too dangerous for Bill....Where it is too dangerous for Bill send the First Lady, she says it was said back then.

    She made up a story about being "under fire" and being in dangerous places....She made up a story of personal heroism.

    Parent

    Her last name is Clinton (5.00 / 0) (#168)
    by white n az on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 07:08:31 PM EST
    Of course you think...
    She made up a story about being "under fire" and being in dangerous places....She made up a story of personal heroism.

    How else can you claim CDS without thinking that she just makes stuff up?

    Sometimes I think Obama supporters just get on blogs to ensure that Clinton supporters fully hate their candidate so he can lose and then blame Clinton to satisfy their CDS.

    Parent

    Her signs say Hillary (none / 0) (#190)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:10:07 AM EST
    And is signs say Obama (none / 0) (#193)
    by tree on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:08:45 AM EST
    I suppose that means he's changed his name and is searching for his identity, right?  

     Oh no, that only applies to Hillary Clinton. Jeez, this is a silly season.

    Parent

    Yes, you know she "made it up" (none / 0) (#50)
    by MarkL on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:45:51 PM EST
    because it's just not possible in your universe that she could have made a mistake, and of course in your universe she NEVER was in any danger anywhere she went.
    Was she in error? Probably. Does this have any significance at all? It has less than none.

    Parent
    She was too detailed in her (none / 0) (#54)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:47:54 PM EST
    acount....Her detailed account bore no relationship to anything that occured--as shown by the video.....

    Parent
    So she probably mixed up some dates (none / 0) (#58)
    by MarkL on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:53:44 PM EST
    and/or places. At the end of the day, Obama is still unqualified.

    Parent
    That might work (none / 0) (#65)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:56:41 PM EST
    if there was more than one trip or landing.....There wasn't.....

    Parent
    i thought there were 2, 96 and 99? n/t (none / 0) (#112)
    by nycstray on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:45:27 PM EST
    Interesting (none / 0) (#120)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:04:23 PM EST
    the video is from 1996 just as peace was being, or had been, established....1999 would have been when there would have been fewer security concerns.....

    Parent
    got lost in google land, lol!~ (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by nycstray on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:32:30 PM EST
    I went to check on that, and came up with other articles that led to other reading :)

    I don't know why folks just don't google her name with a year after it. It is very interesting. Maybe instead of looking for 'bad' we can remember and appreciate what she did do as FL and also how she influenced the position for future FL's.

    http://tinyurl.com/3ygm32

    found a bunch of other articles of things I had forgotten about including the Vital Voices Democracy Initiative which I worked on a video for, lol!~ OY, my poor brain must really be on vacation.

    Parent

    There were 3 trips that day (none / 0) (#180)
    by tree on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 08:12:26 PM EST
    The first was the arrival in Tuzla and the second and third were on Blackhawk helicopters to two outward military posts. Sinbad wasn't on the other two trips. Fournier's description of the helicopter trip seems to mesh with Clinton's recollection.

    Riflemen rushed to the brush line as the helicopter landed and surrounded her as she walked into the post.

    Sounds like she mixed up the two different circumstances into one. Are you really going to do a Gore treatment on her, ala his FEMA trip, where he got called a fabricator because the FEMA head wasn't on the particular helicopter trip he remembered, but was on another one? Have we sunk so low as Democrats to be using the same cr**py tactics?

    Parent

    Do you have a link (none / 0) (#189)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:08:16 AM EST
    for this account?

    Parent
    Its from standingup's lexis search (none / 0) (#194)
    by tree on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:11:38 AM EST
    at #131.

       Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal "thank you, thank you, thank you" to U.S. troops.
        ...
        But this was a day of celebration and celebrities - a day for the U.S. troops helping to uphold the Bosnian peace accord. Mrs. Clinton hosted a USO show with comedian Sinbad and singer Sheryl Crow and briefly addressed the gathering.
        ...
        But the highlight of her trip were visits to two fortified posts outside the U.S. base in Tuzla. Even President Clinton, restricted to the base by bad weather in January, did not see as much of this war-wracked region as Mrs. Clinton did Monday.
        ...
        Riflemen rushed to the brush line as the helicopter landed and surrounded her as she walked into the post. Located in a "separation zone," the U.S. outpost nestles between two tree lines. Just months ago, one was Serbian territory, the other Bosnian.

        Security was tight - fighter jets accompanied her C-17 cargo plane to Tuzla - but officials said the first lady took no extraordinary risks on the trip.
        Lexis - By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press, March 25, 1996



    Parent
    you come on here making comments like (none / 0) (#141)
    by hellothere on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:17:34 PM EST
    that i say prove it. and don't bother with sinbad!

    Parent
    Only the ones with a huge (none / 0) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:01:19 PM EST
    lack of judgment.

    Parent
    Yes, you're so much smarter than them (5.00 / 0) (#93)
    by leonid on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:28:17 PM EST
    If you can't recognize Obama's strong charisma the one with a lack of judgement is you. I'm one of those radical Clinton supporters who most likely won't be voting for Obama if he wins the nomination but I can see the appeal.

    But I'm sure it makes you feel so good about yourself to pretend that your opinion is based on some superior intellectual skill. The problem is we all base our decisions on emotions. If Obama's speeches and public persona don't have an impact on you it's not because of your superior judgement. It's because there's something wrong with you.

    I'll use the excuse of an open thread to wander a bit here, concerning charisma -

    Clinton is doing Obama a favor by staying in and fighting. If all the negativity about Obama can come out now it will have less of an impact in the general election. Barring some major problem like the Wright matter occurring during the general election campaign Obama's charisma will likely carry him all the way to the White House.

    Parent

    Can you tell me what (1.00 / 0) (#159)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 06:04:35 PM EST
    charisma is good for?

    It certainly doesn't denote intelligence, although I don't say that he is not. It certainly doesn't denote ability, nor does it denote leadership skill or experience. He has not demonstrated either, and is very shallow in experience.

    So it appears that what it is good for is to influence an uninformed person with undefined words such as "hope," "change" and "unite."

    You write:

    The problem is we all base our decisions on emotions.

    No we don't. Those with superior intellect recognize when they are being influenced by emotions and have the ability to step outside themselves and analyze the situation.

    Obama's charm has worn thin, and the Wright story will not go away. It has too much substance and the various videos will look terrible on TV the first week of November. And the Rezko story has not even begun to get the national play that will come.

    So snark away and enjoy. It is, as the song goes, later than you think.

    Parent

    you are insulting other commenters (none / 0) (#97)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:31:11 PM EST
    which is not allowed here. Please repost your comment without insults or mocking other's views since this one deserves deletion.

    Parent
    Bill Clinton (none / 0) (#2)
    by jtaylorr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:34:33 PM EST
    has endorsed Obama! Well, sort of.

    video link

    God I love irony.

    LOL (none / 0) (#7)
    by digdugboy on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:39:12 PM EST
    Too funny!

    Parent
    thanks ddb (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:43:58 PM EST
    for the censor part. You may keep including that if you'd like.

    Parent
    Richardson backed off (none / 0) (#9)
    by waldenpond on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:42:17 PM EST
    the Clinton needs to drop out suggestion.  He has been shown saying that there are 10 contests left and the Dems need to come together at that point.  It's positive that he wants to listen to the rest of the states. (please don't mention FL/MI.

    Did anyone catch the Easter sermon of Obama's church?  I wonder if Obama will be asked about it.

    Fox News Has an Article on it (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:49:08 PM EST
    reporting the new pastor compared Wright to Jesus and said he was the victim of a lynching.  

    The Sunday services made clear that the criticism surrounding Wright has not softened the church's sermons, as the pastors defiantly defended their method of worship.

    "If I was Ice Cube I'd say it a little differently -- You picked the wrong folk to mess with," Moss said to an enthusiastic congregation, standing up during much of the sermon, titled "How to Handle a Public Lynching."



    Parent
    Personally I'm glad they are defending Wright. (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:00:24 PM EST
    They are not the hypocrites in this.

    Parent
    No uutrage over Karl Rove, the Reich Wing (none / 0) (#91)
    by Ellie on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:26:16 PM EST
    For eight years we've had conservative media -- including the ass-kissing mainstream -- crowing about Karl Rove, GENIUS.

    They call him The Architect, in an in your face, bragging way.

    Don't people know WTF that means?

    I don't agree with Wright's views of the world or remedies for its ills but I don't like selective outrage for one side doing in small fraction what the One Party jackwads do worse and egregiously every damn day.

    Planned genocide: it's the same horror, whether people are physically being loaded onto cattle cars or condemned to death by systematically denying them the life-sustaining goods and services to which they are entitled.

    Shocked yet? If not, maybe you've been listening but not paying attention.

    Sorry for throwing a dismal topic and reference this joyful day and thread, esp. after the laying out of a delish Greek food topic, but everyone should keep Wright's comments in context with his contemporaries.

    After his critics pillory the long line of worse ones ahead of him FIRST, the singling out of Wright at least passes the smell test (if not the laff one IMO.)

    Parent

    Good thing for Obama (none / 0) (#17)
    by zyx on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:58:02 PM EST
    that he was well out of town and not in the pew, I'd say.

    Parent
    not a coincidence I'll bet (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by DandyTIger on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:00:13 PM EST
    and I'll bet every time there will be a controversial sermon, Obama will conveniently not be there. Just a hunch.

    Parent
    Will he every go again to the pews of that Church (none / 0) (#46)
    by TalkRight on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:39:51 PM EST
    I just wonder... just in case he does become a president of usa will he remain an active member of that church.. does trinity have a branch in Washington DC?

    Parent
    Akaik he will (none / 0) (#73)
    by nycstray on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:09:05 PM EST
    He said he didn't need to leave the Church because there is a new pastor, iirc. I don't think it will matter that he wasn't there today. People will be looking to see if there is a difference in the 2 pastors since he didn't feel the need to leave the Church.

    The parent church may have a branch in DC, but I think Trinity is just in Chicago.

    Parent

    Trinity is part of the United Church of Christ (none / 0) (#87)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:21:43 PM EST
    There are churches part of that denomination all over....Jim Wallis is a member and it is nationally mainly a white congregation.

    Parent
    Frankly... (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:01:23 PM EST
    I think this congregation should be left alone.  It's their church, they choose the preacher.  The issue is Obama, not the church.  

    Parent
    And (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:18:19 PM EST
    they should leave Hillary and politics alone.  Until they do, their church is fair game.

    The way they've portrayed Hillary is unforgiveable.

    Parent

    until yesterday, i would have agreed (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by english teacher on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:37:17 PM EST
    with you.  but then i actually watched a video on youtube.  what that man says from the pulpit is political advocacy of the worst and most vile sort.  it is shameless, there is no excuse for it, and in my opinion there is no excuse for anyone who sits in the pews and listens to it.  

    he makes disgusting comments about hillary clinton worthy of rush limbaugh from the pulpit of his church.  it is a disgrace.

    Parent

    The Hillary comments (none / 0) (#125)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:15:08 PM EST
    were in December of last year, just a month or two short of Wright's retirement....

    So, the argument that Obama had known for 20 years....does not really apply to that comment....Obama has condemned that as well as others.....

    I still maintain that there are primarily three videos that are being played:

    1.  The 9/16/2001 sermon about 9/11 and "Americas chickens coming home to roost."  Obama says he was at home with a young infant....

    2.  A 2003 sermon about AIDs, too many blacks in jail and G-D America....

    3.  The December 2007 anti-Hillary sermon.

    There are others that are racially incendiary such as today's "lynching" comment....but the there are only 3 (so far) that have generated all the outrage....If after awhile there are still only 3 really bad videos, then Obama's assertion that he knew of "controverisal" comments but not the really bad ones, will seem more believable.

     

    Parent

    do you really believe there are only (none / 0) (#143)
    by hellothere on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:23:09 PM EST
    3 videos? oh come on! the amount of criticism and hate that pours out of that man and you think in 20 odd years that is "all" he said. more to come i assure you.

    Parent
    there were 2 different sermons with 9/11 (none / 0) (#156)
    by nycstray on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:57:45 PM EST
    and you missed the remarks he made about Bill, Monica and 'ridin' dirty' i guess . . .

    and since Obama has admitted to hearing controversial sermons from the pew but not those specific ones . . . i sure hope we aren't sitting around in the Fall defining what is considered a controversial sermon . . . i don't have enough faith in how he handled this to feel we won't be.

    Parent

    on the topic of hypocritical... (none / 0) (#172)
    by white n az on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 07:30:51 PM EST
    <If after awhile there are still only 3 really bad videos, then Obama's assertion that he knew of "controverisal" comments but not the really bad ones, will seem more believable.</blockquote>

    Obama is believable but earlier in the thread, you stated Hillary is not believable.

    Excuse me for pointing out that you don't believe Hillary but you expect us to believe BHO.

    You clearly don't get it...that you are doing far more damage to your candidate here than good.

    Parent

    Frankly *I* think (none / 0) (#42)
    by zyx on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:35:39 PM EST
    Reverend Wright will be the winning card for John McCain in November.  

    Frankly that is what I think.  I wish that Obama had lost Reverend Wright a long time back, whenever he decided that he wanted to someday be the uplifting, unifying president of all Americans.

    Parent

    I am uncomfortable (none / 0) (#44)
    by standingup on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:39:02 PM EST
    with singling out a church.  The problem is of Obama's making since he has given Wright such a prominent role in his life.  

    But then I think back to what I have read the left say and try to do with some of the religious right.  Have we gone too far with some of that at times?  

    Parent

    That's funny (none / 0) (#123)
    by jtaylorr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:12:54 PM EST
    because Hillary adviser James Carville recently compared Hillary to Jesus and Bill Richardson to Judas.

    "Mr. Richardson's endorsement came right around the anniversary of the day when Judas sold out for 30 pieces of silver, so I think the timing is appropriate, if ironic," Mr. Carville said, referring to Holy Week.

    Parent

    Mmm, how interesting (none / 0) (#158)
    by BrandingIron on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 06:03:19 PM EST
    that he would mention Cube, who is NOI.  I dunno about anyone else, but I sense a strong NOI connection in all of this Obama mess.  Not that the NOI hasn't done good things for the black community, but it's not exactly the greatest organization in terms of public opinion.

    Parent
    Maybe he will talk now (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sunshine on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:49:30 PM EST
    Rev. Jeremial Wright will deliver 3 sermons on March 30 at the Wheeler Ave. Baptist in Houston....    I thought he was on vacation and couldn't be reached....

    Wright not reached... (none / 0) (#16)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:54:20 PM EST
    SNL Jackson and Sharpton Cartoon  Now they have to add Wright.  

    Parent
    Wright was on a cruise (none / 0) (#36)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:25:59 PM EST
    on vacation.....and not all that reachable...

     

    Parent

    Reachable enough (none / 0) (#109)
    by waldenpond on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:41:38 PM EST
    to give his permission for Obama to distribute the photo of Wright and Clinton along with the invitation.  They couldn't do it without his permission yet Obama said there had been no communication.

    Parent
    We still don't know that -- as it seems (none / 0) (#139)
    by Cream City on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:15:13 PM EST
    just as or even more likely, to me, that this all was scoped out well ahead of time and the reply readied, i.e., the Clinton photo, the invitation, the thank-you letter, etc.  After all, Obama knew more than a year ago that Wright would be a problem, when Obama disinvited Wright at the last minute from speaking at the campaign kickoff event.

    Parent
    there are phones on cruise boats with (none / 0) (#144)
    by hellothere on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:24:21 PM EST
    very good access to the mainland. duh!

    Parent
    Odd comment. Isn't it possible (none / 0) (#25)
    by Cream City on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:11:45 PM EST
    that his vacation will be over then, and isn't it more than reasonable that his sermons were scheduled earlier when he was reachable?  Why be so snarky about the obvious?  

    Parent
    Snarky ? (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Sunshine on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:20:29 PM EST
    I would just like to hear him answer some questions about his connection with Obama...  Even Geraldine Ferraro answered questions... He seems to never be available when questions are asked....

    Parent
    SNL yesterday? (none / 0) (#18)
    by DandyTIger on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:58:22 PM EST
    I missed it. Did anyone catch it? Was there anything political? Any youtube links?

    Happy Easter by the way. And remember, according to South Park, the easter bunny is the head of the church. Love that episode.

    it was a repeat (none / 0) (#23)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:11:00 PM EST
    Who's most electable (none / 0) (#68)
    by leonid on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:01:11 PM EST
    I love Electoral Vote Predictor, mostly 'cause he sticks to silly things like facts and polls and mostly avoids all the gossip and mud-slinging. Anyway, as of today there are Obama-McCain and Clinton-McCain electoral college comparisons based on the latest polls. Seems as of today Obama can't beat McCain but Clinton can. We've come a long way from the exact opposite three months ago. I wonder where it will be three months from now.

    Lots of time remaining (none / 0) (#100)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:33:42 PM EST
    You can fall in love, get married and have a premie baby before election time.  

    However, one thing worth noting:  Has anyone ever seen Massachusetts in play before, I mean EVER?

    Parent

    Actually it's not. (none / 0) (#84)
    by nycstray on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:18:39 PM EST
    If you believe that his street urchin days helped shape his foreign policy beliefs. . . ;)

    Hey - (none / 0) (#102)
    by badger on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:35:41 PM EST
    I once had a layover at Tokyo-Narita (US$7 for a Coke in 1996) on the way to Shanghai.

    I'm looking forward to being Ambassador to Japan in the Obama administration. I think in comparison to being a 7 year old in Indonesia qualifying as "foreign policy experience" that I meet the qualifications. I might even be over-qualified.

    There is an upside to the Obama standards, y'know.

    Parent

    Is something skewed on Obama's fund raising? (none / 0) (#98)
    by TalkRight on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:33:05 PM EST
    If the ticker on Obama's campaign is to be believed they are gong to reach a milestone of 2million have donated !!

    That is huge no doubt.. but only now the campaign said that the ticker is flawed.. but it has been ticking like that ever since (they did not change any code).. is there more than that meets the eye???


    How can a bunch of 18 to 29 year olds come up with (none / 0) (#111)
    by 2 Cents on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:43:11 PM EST
    all that money for Obama's campaign?  Most of those young folks are probably in college and not even supporting themselves yet. Are they BIG donors?  Not likely.

    Maybe the multi-billionaire Oprah is handing out millions upon millions all across the country and those multi-millions are then donated to Obama's campaign. For an "unknown" junior Senator, being able to collect the millions he has suggests a "smell" test might be in order.

    Parent

    Sadly my adolescent nephews have more bux than I (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Ellie on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:59:46 PM EST
    Don't ask me how they have all this disposable income on part time McJobs. They don't have my overhead but do shell out for an incredible shopping list for industrial strength products that make teenagers less odious to each other. Even at minimum, what they need to stand each other even enough to consider as makeout partners is considerable IMO (and I'm no day at the beach.)

    But I digress ...

    I can see the yoots coming up with that kind of jack.

    Parent

    Talk about your conspiracy theories... (none / 0) (#121)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:05:40 PM EST
    That one seems sillier than most.

    "It's Oprah's Fault".

    By bringing thousands more young people into the process, and having them contribute $25 each, it is quite conceivable that the numbers would add up. Obviously, Obama has lots of big money as well, just like Clinton, and from many of the same industries. But to suggest there is something "smelly" about his campaign totals -- without offering proof and theorizing that Oprah had something to do with it -- well, you'll excuse me if I roll my eyes.

    Parent

    Mark L (none / 0) (#107)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:40:15 PM EST
    has had several comments deleted for insulting and mocking another commenter.

    Thank you for challenging... (5.00 / 0) (#117)
    by 2 Cents on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:01:34 PM EST
    those who are abusive. This is a great place to just write down your thoughts on any issue and have others wade in to offer their views.
    Too bad you are not in charge of the two campaigns, we'd have a chance to learn something about these candidates stand on the issues.

    Parent
    Jeralyn as the next debate moderator! (none / 0) (#142)
    by Cream City on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:20:20 PM EST
    What a great idea, 2 Cents.  Better than Couric. :-)

    Parent
    I just deleted one of your comments (none / 0) (#183)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 10:30:45 PM EST
    that repeatedly called Obama a liar. No name-calling and personal attacks, thanks.

    Parent
    Bye. (none / 0) (#110)
    by MarkL on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:41:42 PM EST
    It's getting too much like a library in here.
    Jeralyn is free to do what she pleases, and I am free to look elsewhere for conversation on politics, which I will do.

    Hopefully, after Obama crashes and burns, Orange Republic will be a tolerable place again.

    Later.

    Take a deep breath and (none / 0) (#184)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 11:09:09 PM EST
    please continue here.  My (to me) pertinent and accurate comments about Obama didn't pass the test by the powers that be today.  But I'm not leaving.  You shouldn't either.

    Parent
    There's no particular reason to stay. (none / 0) (#192)
    by MarkL on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 06:17:07 AM EST
    I don't have the illusion that my comments make a difference, but I like to have discussions.

    Parent
    I enjoy reading your comments (none / 0) (#195)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:29:17 AM EST
    [perhaps because I usually agree with them!].  I perceive Talk Left has returned to the "no discussion about a certain pastor" frame of mind over the weekend.  

    Parent
    Well, I was making fun of a certain (none / 0) (#196)
    by MarkL on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:38:35 AM EST
    commenter's obsession with what happened one day in Bosnia. As you probably read, it turns out that the helicopter trip to an army base that day matches her recollection more closely.
    Anyway, site rules ROOL, or is it the other way around? Anyway, rules are rules. That's fine by me.
    No one makes me comment here.

    Parent
    I know. (none / 0) (#198)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:26:10 AM EST
    It is a tad confusing though, when the site rules as applied shift w/o an up front explanation.  Need to read between the lines; not my speciality.

    P.S.  Was Chelsea Clinton in the helicopter?  Was Sinbad (who I just discovered is a comedian, as opposed to a rapper)?

    Parent

    Gotta Love This (none / 0) (#115)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:49:21 PM EST
    The Dutch Once Again (none / 0) (#116)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:53:23 PM EST
    Lead the way.

    AMSTERDAM, 08/03/08 - The police's National Diversity Expertise Centre (LECD) wants sex allowed in all public parks in the Netherlands. The police institute has advised the cities to follow the example of Amsterdam, De Telegraaf newspaper reported Friday.

    Nightime only and never when children are around, also no littering.


    Barney's MJ bill is pretty weak tea. (none / 0) (#130)
    by Ben Masel on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:38:22 PM EST
    Federal prosecutions for simple possession are extremely rare, only instances I can recall were at Rainbow Gatherings in the National Forest, and visitors at Federal prisons.

    His bill does not deal with the draconian sentences for cultivation or distribution, so where does that decriminalized weed come from?

    PA new voters registration... (none / 0) (#137)
    by TalkRight on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:08:17 PM EST
    Democratic enrollment is up by more than 110,000 since last year's election, an increase of roughly 3 percent, state election officials said. It is likely to surpass the record of 4 million by Monday. Republicans lost about 14,000 voters in the same period.

    More than 58,000 registered voters have changed their affiliation to Democratic, with about 10,000 changing to Republican.

    Voters must be registered in a party to vote in the state's primary.


    Gallup? (none / 0) (#163)
    by diogenes on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 06:29:40 PM EST
    The Gallup daily tracking poll for March 22 shows that Obama has jumped back ahead 48-45.  Funny how you don't hear boo about that here.

    That's funny..... (none / 0) (#167)
    by TalkRight on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 06:41:32 PM EST
    We hear Olbermann's live-in girlfriend, Katy Tur, 24, just landed a news-anchor job on CW11, allegedly with his help. Many are whispering about her qualifications, considering she once professed she didn't go to journalism school and she's simply been referred to as a "freelance cable producer" in New York and LA.


    what do you think of this AP account? (none / 0) (#176)
    by Josey on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 07:50:26 PM EST