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< Can Clinton Win The Popular Vote? | Open Thread >
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    is it my imagination (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 12:53:46 PM EST
    or is a lot more thread being chewed up here lately?

    it's the new Obama folk (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Kathy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 12:56:12 PM EST
    determined to set the record straight.

    Parent
    Pre-fab. (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 12:56:56 PM EST
    Totally! (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Virginian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:37:36 PM EST
    Hot off the fax/e-mail fundraiser

    Parent
    Rather than (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by PlayInPeoria on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:05:59 PM EST
    looking at past post that present the facts, they keep bringing up old discussions.

    Then the whole discussion starts again with the same results.

    Parent

    Isn't that the definition of insanity? (5.00 / 1) (#254)
    by ricosuave on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:21:14 PM EST
    Repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#259)
    by PlayInPeoria on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:25:13 PM EST
    we are stuck in "insanity"! LOL!

    Parent
    Framing of the Obama Strategy (5.00 / 7) (#6)
    by Athena on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 12:58:03 PM EST
    The MSM has it backwards.

    Obama has decided to seek a nomination with the aid of superdelegates, rather than elected delegates.  His refusal to participate in Florida and Michigan enfranchisement means that he would rather rely on getting a nomination with superdelegates, rather than those elected by the voters.

    Obama is pursuing an anti-democratic path to the nomination.  Contrary to the prevailing MSM narrative, it is Obama who is trying to ride the superdelegates to a nomination and avoid a full evaluation by the voters, not Clinton.

    you may be right (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:11:08 PM EST
    but he'll be sorrrrrrry.

    Parent
    Throwing so much junk out there (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by felizarte on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:19:55 PM EST
    hoping that people will get distracted from Rezko, Rev. Wright, NaftaGate/Powergate.

    The desperation is so obvvious.  They can sense that Hillary has the momentum.  There are no new converts and perhaps even a peeling away.

    Parent

    so, obama is unpatriotic, a muslim, (1.00 / 4) (#21)
    by cy street on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:12:01 PM EST
    anti-democratic and thief.  maybe it would be easier to throw the satan narrative out there.  keeping up with all of his flaws is becoming tiresome.

    Parent
    Can you not read or comprehend? No one has (5.00 / 6) (#22)
    by Angel on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:13:40 PM EST
    said that in this thread.  Go someplace else if you want to start a fight.  This is Good Friday, let us have some fun.  

    Parent
    I think we shouldn't answer these posts... (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:31:56 PM EST
    ...for two reasons, 1)they are sucking up the open thread and 2) they are really just trying to provoke us.

    Parent
    I agree. (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by Fabian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:35:47 PM EST
    Due to the "Stay On Topic." rule, I find it easy to OT ignore comments, especially if they are apparently baiting, instigating or picking a fight.

    Parent
    fight? (1.00 / 4) (#34)
    by cy street on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:19:05 PM EST
    i do not fight with democrats.  i vote for them and the last time i checked, obama is still a democrat.

    wait for it.

    just in:  obama is a card carrying hezbollah member.

    Parent

    He is?! Oh my, that's not good. (none / 0) (#54)
    by nycstray on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:33:35 PM EST
    /s

    Parent
    You did not see all those claims (5.00 / 5) (#26)
    by Cream City on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:14:37 PM EST
    in this comment -- or on this blog.

    Apologize.

    Parent

    desperation (5.00 / 6) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:16:32 PM EST
    its going to get worse

    Parent
    After Pa (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by PlayInPeoria on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:44:43 PM EST
    primary it is going to get worse! Looks like she is going to get delegates and popular vote by large %.


    Parent
    think (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:48:07 PM EST
    viscous cornered wounded animal

    Parent
    let's hope (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by diplomatic on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:32:24 PM EST
    But Obama also knows that if he could win Pennsylvania he gets the nomination right then and there.  He might try to "do anything to win"

    Unlike Hillary he has an entire TV network dedicated to making this happen. (NBC/MSNBC)

    Parent

    Obama has zero chance of winning PA (none / 0) (#258)
    by OxyCon on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:25:12 PM EST
    Obama outspent Hillary 4-1 in Texas and Ohio and still lost.
    He can spend all the money he wants in PA and all he is doing is wasting all the money his contributors gave him.

    Parent
    I don't think he's trying to win PA (none / 0) (#265)
    by Rigelian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:28:40 PM EST
    I think he's trying to keep the margin reasonable and beat expectations and he can afford to make that investment.  Needless to say if Clinton competed across the board in earlier in the contest, she would not be in such a difficult position.  

    Parent
    well he needs to WIN Pennsylvania (none / 0) (#283)
    by diplomatic on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:55:44 PM EST
    to end the primary right then and there.  Cutting the margin of defeat won't be enough to take away Clinton's argument that she wins the big swing states and he once again failed to do so.

    Parent
    Also, when you realize (5.00 / 5) (#104)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:54:26 PM EST
    That on some blogs you no long have the Hillary supporters and so you have to go looking for them somewhere else to keep up the bickering.

    Parent
    I hadn't thought of that (5.00 / 6) (#147)
    by Joan in VA on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:16:23 PM EST
    but you are so right! They must be getting bored with agreeing with themselves!

    Parent
    Or bored with telling Whoppers (4.00 / 1) (#187)
    by ding7777 on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:37:09 PM EST
    Yes this is going on all over the Intertubes (none / 0) (#253)
    by OxyCon on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:20:44 PM EST
    Obama's supporters are fanning out and, dare I say it, trolling blogs with very obnoxious and confrontational postings.
    They say Obama attracts the "youth vote", and unfortunately it seems they are out to prove it.

    Parent
    Obama's Superdelegate Reliance (5.00 / 6) (#29)
    by Athena on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:17:07 PM EST
    Basic political analysis here.  Pointing out that Obama will now place more reliance on the superdelegates to get a nomination is a necessary corrective to the prevailing meme that tarnished Clinton for using superdelegates.

    The tables have turned.  Obama is now willing to plead his case to superdelegates rather than submit to FL and MI voters.  It's very clear.

    Parent

    that narrative is already out there (none / 0) (#25)
    by diplomatic on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:14:32 PM EST
    or maybe you haven't Googled antichrist + Obama.

    You might be surprised at how many hits you get, lol.

    Parent

    Obama is afraid to (5.00 / 0) (#109)
    by sas on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:59:10 PM EST
    have Democrats vote in Michigan and Florida.  He knows he'll lose them.

    I made a decision today not to vote for Obama, because in my view instead of doing it the right way, with all states in play, he wants to tap dance around it.  He's afraid.

    Not s leader for me.

    Parent

    actually as a voter it is your job to keep (none / 0) (#141)
    by hellothere on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:13:22 PM EST
    up with his negatives especially since you are a supporter. you are concerned with that right? i mean beyond rushing to refute it blindly.

    Parent
    Very good point. Obama and his campaign are (none / 0) (#124)
    by DemBillC on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:07:50 PM EST
    really the biggest Hypocrite's since George Bush and his posse. I did not trust George Bush and I do not trust Obama. His choice of friends such as
    slumlord Rezco and the wingut Rev Wright are very troubling. I do not feel I could back Obama in the
    general election.

    Parent
    Ditto, (none / 0) (#149)
    by felizarte on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:16:50 PM EST
    "a rose by any other name . . ."
    inexperience is a fact;
    inspirational? It is in the eye of the beholder.
    Talk plus $4.00 will get you a gallon of gas.

    Parent
    I disagree (none / 0) (#236)
    by Rigelian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:07:20 PM EST
    the reality of this primary is and has been that super delegates were going to ultimately decide this notwithstanding Florida or Michigan.  This would be true if Clinton ends up the nominee or Obama ends up the nominee.  

    Parent
    So true.... (none / 0) (#276)
    by Oje on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:41:58 PM EST
    And, there seems to be a new push to end the primary now to complement that strategy. From politico to atrios to TPM, the drumbeat for withdrawal once again resounds. And now that a childhood actress has denounced Clinton and Bill Richardson endorsed Obama, there seems to be no further point to the Democratic, and democratic, process. All those pesky women and Hispanics are now spoken for: Obama Roolz!

    Parent
    Local Philly Coverage (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by andgarden on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:03:29 PM EST
    funny, how many (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:09:50 PM EST
    times was "move on" in those comments.
    translation - you got me and I dont want to talk about this any more
    (Bill - even a stopped clock is right twice a day - O'Reilly)

    Parent
    What he meant was... (5.00 / 1) (#268)
    by ricosuave on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:30:44 PM EST
    How many of us are sick of having a president where the advisors have to come out and clarify what he really meant?  Seems to be another Obama-Bush similarity.  Do we need four more years of that?  From the article linked above:

    In an update, the blog quoted a clarification from Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt: "Barack Obama said specifically that he didn't believe his grandmother harbored any racial animosity but that her fears were understandable and typical of those often shared by her generation."

    According to this, it is not all white people who are racists, just old ones?

    Parent

    I noted that earlier (none / 0) (#280)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:47:25 PM EST
    He was just reassuring his youth vote his doesn't hold their parents views against them?  He already lost the closed minded old lady vote...

    Parent
    Obama, Clinton, NAFTA, and Iraq (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Manuel on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:04:26 PM EST
    Let's see.  Hillary made some public comments in support of the Clinton's administration's NAFTA position.  Obama downplayed his support for the war when Kerry was running.  Where is the difference?

    Axelrod and Penn and all other campaign operatives are disgusting.

    I would make a different comparison (5.00 / 1) (#285)
    by ricosuave on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:56:52 PM EST
    Hillary was part of a team working on policy issues.  She disagreed on NAFTA and worked to ensure that her concerns were heard and understood.  She lost the argument with the rest of the group, and supported the administration in their efforts.  Nobody who keeps bringing up NAFTA honestly believes that she should have stormed out of the whitehouse, left Bill, railed against him on national TV, and killed his efforts in every other political area because they didn't take her side.  She pressed her argument, she lost, and she moved on to fight another day (hopefully Jan 22 of next year!).

    Contrast that with Obama and his recent travails.  He says he is disturbed by Wrights comments.  He had to be concerned about and know about the direct and personal insults his preacher gave to both Clintons, even in the unlikely case that he didn't know about the awards for Farrakhan, trips to Libya, vague statements that blacks should stop being afraid to mention Israel, US of KKK A, etc.  There is no evidence that Obama did anything about this.  He didn't leave the church (which would have been an odd first reaction anyway), but he also does not seem to have approached Rev. Wright about the matter, he doesn't seem to have given a speech in the church about why words matter and how we can better communicate our grievances (or even one similar to his speech the other day).  He has never written about the fact that this language troubled him, has never brought black and white ministers together to discuss race issues, has never attempted to shield his family from words he says he considers hateful.

    Hillary's words now and all accounts of her actions surrounding NAFTA (and everything else, really) are very consistent and tell the story of someone who felt strongly about an issue and let everyone know, but was mature enough to recognize that she lost without having to slash and burn everything around her.

    Obama's words now and his complete lack of action on race issues (and Iraq and healthcare and financial issues, etc) show a serious disconnect between his words and his actions.  This is further exacerbated in the case of NAFTA by his advisor's assurances to the Canadians or in the case of Iraq by his other (now former) advisor's backtracking on his whole Iraq plan.  His lack of leadership on all of these issues when he had the opportunties to deal with them (sending universal health care to death by committee in Illinois, silence before the racism in his church, complete lack of any action on Iraq between his 2002 speech and his 2007 start of the presidential run) speaks volumes beyond the soaring speeches he has given and the vague plans he has presented in this campaign.

    Parent

    Look at JMM's precious indulgence (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:11:54 PM EST
    Sadly, I must tell you that Hillary has no chance.

    I have respect left for the site, and for David Kurtz, but Marshall? What a sad decline.

    Your link doesn't appeat to be correct (none / 0) (#27)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:15:24 PM EST
    Oops. (none / 0) (#31)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:17:25 PM EST
    this one will be hard for BTD to resist (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by diplomatic on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:19:42 PM EST
    he has been holding back on taking JMM to the woodshed.

    Parent
    you have to wonder what these folks (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:22:26 PM EST
    think is going to happen to their meal ticket blogs when this is over, Hillary is in the white house and all their current readers go back to the coffee shops and skateboard parks.

    Parent
    Their current readers will stay (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by diplomatic on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:32:57 PM EST
    I have no doubt in my mind that the majority will continue to continue to spew their Clinton hatred even if Hillary is our President and it will be hard pressed to distinguish the so-called progressive kool kids from right wing bloggers.

    Actually if you pay attention... at this moment the conservative bloggers treat Hillary with more respect and reality-based analysis than the left!

    Parent

    its true (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:36:55 PM EST
    its absolutely stunning.

    Parent
    Agreed (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:48:15 PM EST
    Just like "big libs" Maureen Dowd and Frank Rich spent much of the '90s beating up on the Clintons and Gore, if Hillary wins, the "big blogs" will do the same.  Best way to get on MTP afterall.

    Parent
    I also (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by sas on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:03:11 PM EST
    decided today that the Democratic left can go to hell, and I was a member before this.  I have never seen such hateful people.  I realized they are just as rigid as the conservative right.

    From now on it's the Independent center for me.

    The Democratic party has taken women for granted for too long.

    Parent

    There are good Democrats (5.00 / 1) (#267)
    by dianem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:30:27 PM EST
    Every time I feel like abandoning the party, I think about Bill Clinton's Global Initiative, and Jimmy Carter's promotion of Habitat for Humanity. I could list a dozen Democrats off the top of my head who work hard to make a difference in the world, not to make a profit for themselves and their friends like so many Republican leaders. Don't let the Obamabots get you down - I suspect most of the Obama supporters who truly fit into that category are trolls who are using this campaign to feed their need for conflict.

    Parent
    I've had that epiphany myself (5.00 / 1) (#273)
    by OxyCon on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:37:55 PM EST
    What always motivated me politically was my utter revulsion of the far right wing agenda in this country. I could always tolerate the extreme far left.
    But after reading and seeing what has been going on in the Liberal blogoshpere on sights I used to frequent, such as Americablog, Kos, TPM, DU, Huffpo, and other smaller blogs, I can honestly say I agree with you. These far leftist aren't a whole lot better than the ignorant right wingers I've been battling for so long.
    If my candidate Hillary loses, I think I will be cured of politics. I know I will never, EVER have anything to do with those aforementioned blogs again. I'll most likely move on and drop out of the discussion.

    Parent
    Irony (none / 0) (#282)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:55:11 PM EST
    More irony, I find them not to be real lefties.  They have diluted left politics to the politics of coolness.  They choose the left issues they like and dump others.  They have no class identity or solidarity.  

    Parent
    who was it that said (none / 0) (#286)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:58:34 PM EST
    you become what you hate?

    Parent
    Um (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:43:16 PM EST
    Not vote for Obama for president because he is clearly unqualified.

    Parent
    One other thing (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:44:08 PM EST
    I am supposedly the educated creative class.

    I am still not voting for him.

    Parent

    I am of the educated creative class, no supposed (none / 0) (#110)
    by nycstray on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:59:20 PM EST
    about it ;) I suddenly have the urge to put it on a T-shirt to stop my personal confusion over the stereotypes the media and Obama have pinned on me.

    Parent
    Obama (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:51:14 PM EST
    Is not qualified. End of story. I'm not voting for American Idol and I'm not voting for John McCain. I don't however, OWE Barack Obama my vote.

    Further, I don't even think he is a democrat.

    If I am hated in blogosphere so be it. I spend most of my time in war zones and I'm not voting for someone who clearly has serious judgment problems.

    And I am not alone.

    Parent

    no (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:53:49 PM EST
    you are not
    I have said I will vote for Obama but believe it or not the "typical white person" thing could be the deal killer for me.
    that is an unacceptable statement.  from anyone.  about anyone.
    period.  end of story.


    Parent
    Well, if it's Obama vs. McCain, the (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:51:36 PM EST
    choice is between someone dangerously unqualified, or just plain dangerous. Yuck.

    Parent
    In a war zone (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:54:16 PM EST
    They are equally dangerous my friend.

    Parent
    If Obama didn't exude such confidence (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:56:27 PM EST
    about what the military could accomplish in Afghanistan and Pakistan, I'd be less worried.

    Parent
    I think its his "exuding" (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:00:10 PM EST
    about Pakistan that has a lot of people worried.

    Parent
    Don't worry, he'll have good advisers. (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:08:20 PM EST
    In fact, he promises to use people from the Bush I administration. I'm sure Bush's Sec Def. would be happy to give Obama advice.

    Parent
    Exactly why one should worry (none / 0) (#169)
    by felizarte on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:26:45 PM EST
    he can't seem to keep away people like Rezko and Wright in his inner circle. That's what they said about Bush when he was cheered for having Cheney as his mentor in foreign policy.

    Parent
    His Israel statement shocked me. (none / 0) (#145)
    by Fabian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:15:20 PM EST
    I'll agree that Israel is an ally, but we need to deal with many Islamic powers in the region about the P/I conflict and Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan.

    The Middle East is a whole lot bigger than Israel.

    Parent

    Can you tell me which statement you (none / 0) (#148)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:16:26 PM EST
    are referring to?

    Parent
    Daman, can't find the quote. (none / 0) (#203)
    by Fabian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:42:40 PM EST
    But looking over the google results, I think Obama has wavered on the whole Israel/ME question.

    It all depends who he is talking to as to what he says and how he phrases it.

    Parent

    Ok, if you find it any time later, let (none / 0) (#205)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:44:11 PM EST
    me know, thanks!


    Parent
    I can't get the whole article. (none / 0) (#241)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:10:20 PM EST
    There is an article in the WaPo by Dana Milbank on 03/17 covering a meeting of Clinton's Eagleburger, McCain's Lewis and Obama's last minute pick Kurtzer.  

    My link to the archive isn't working and I can only get one page...  Here are a couple of clips.

    [The skepticism continued through the question time. Daroff said he had "heard in the hallways here" that Obama "doesn't see the U.S.-Israel relationship as much of the mainstream of the Senate or the Jewish community sees it."

    Kurtzer blamed such sentiment on "attack dogs" and writers of scurrilous e-mails. "He's right within the mainstream of American society and Jewish community concerns," TBA said.]

    [Next question to Kurtzer: Obama's assertion that he needn't have a 'Likud'view" -- that of Israel's right-wing party -- to be pro-Israel. Kurtzer explained that Obama wanted to see a "plurality of views." Silence in the room.
    To that, Lewis retorted: "The role of the president of the United States is to support the decisions that are made by the people of Israel. It is not up to us to pick and choose from among the political parties." The audience members applauded.

    Eagleburger piled on. "There's a distinction between those you do talk to," he said, "and those who declare themselves as intent on the destruction of the state of Israel. And if that's their policy, I think we ought not talk to them." More applause.

    A conference attendee from Richmond pressed Kurtzer on Obama's "judgment about not disavowing Reverend Wright's views earlier." Another question prompted a back-and-forth about whether Obama had been advised by Brzezinski, who won the enmity of pro-Israel groups for, among other things, accusing Israel of the "killing of hostages" in Lebanon.

    "I'm not Brzezinski's spokesperson," Kurtzer demurred. And after yesterday, he may think twice before being Obama's TBA again.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#214)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:50:01 PM EST
    At one point he appeared to be more sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians than the usual US policy, but now he is as mainstream as HRC, in that the defense of Israel (our major allies) is priority above all.

    Parent
    That was the gist. (none / 0) (#218)
    by Fabian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:54:21 PM EST
    Israel is our #1 bestest buddy!  Their security is our top priority!

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#232)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:05:13 PM EST
    HRC is down with that sentiment as well.

    Parent
    been there done that (none / 0) (#59)
    by diplomatic on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:34:49 PM EST
    knock yerself out (none / 0) (#67)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:39:07 PM EST
    I have been stereotyped by professionals.
    lets see. poor stupid old white trailer trash low brow low information hicks.
    missing anything?

     

    Parent

    a fair number (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:45:45 PM EST
    beer drinker (none / 0) (#135)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:11:03 PM EST
    ......    :)

    Parent
    you forgot (none / 0) (#191)
    by wasabi on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:38:50 PM EST
    old bag or hag.  Take your pick.

    Parent
    You left out bitter old woman (none / 0) (#247)
    by echinopsia on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:16:39 PM EST
    You'll have to just trust me (none / 0) (#74)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:42:37 PM EST
    When I say I waited until the 20th time I was called "low-info" before I started stereotyping Obama supporters.

    Parent
    So many "low-info" Ph.D's here who (5.00 / 0) (#101)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:53:37 PM EST
    support Hillary.
    Sad.

    Parent
    I have a masters (none / 0) (#287)
    by ricosuave on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:09:16 PM EST
    I must be "low info" compared to all you PhD's (though don't get me started on making fun of PhD folks!).

    If "low info" is what keeps me supporting Hillary, then I don't want to be "high info."  Is there a special chip they would install for us to make us high-info?  Is this like a Dr. Who episode?

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#111)
    by Virginian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:59:33 PM EST
    Visceral = high info

    Parent
    That's a good (none / 0) (#78)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:43:38 PM EST
    One.  Can I use it?

    Parent
    Now that (none / 0) (#94)
    by PlayInPeoria on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:50:15 PM EST
    is the way to influence people... insult them.

    This is a HUGE problem within the Dem Party.

    Sen Obama and his supporters will HAVE TO reach out to unite the party. Comments like this are just not going to unite.

    The Uniters must be from the winning nmominee... since you are convinced Sen Obama will be that nominee... maybe you sould start practicing.

    I will vote for the Dem nominee... but not everyone will. Look for alot of HIllary write-ins or votes for McCain.


    Parent

    dont forget Nader (none / 0) (#96)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:51:08 PM EST
    This is a good point (none / 0) (#193)
    by Rigelian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:38:58 PM EST
    however, I haven't heard any words about united the party from Hilary Clinton supporters either.  Does this mean that they've already decided that she is not going to be the nominee or that they believe that insulting Barack Obama supporters doesn't matter.

    Frankly the sniping is counter productive and the exageration about the flaws of both of our candidates has reached the level of toxicity that it has lost all connection to reality.

    Parent

    Then you weren't listening in every debate (none / 0) (#202)
    by Cream City on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:42:19 PM EST
    and every post-primary speech, whether acceptance or concession speech, when Clinton consistently calls for party unity.  Even when she lost, she said it was a good day for Dems.  She has said this over and over. . . .

    So the question would be why you can't hear her.

    Parent

    Sorry I've listened to the debates (none / 0) (#207)
    by Rigelian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:45:42 PM EST
    and I've listened to what was said on the campaign trail.  Suggesting that Barack Obama is talk and nothing else, the suggestion that he is unqualified to be the CiC, comparing him unfavorably to John McCain speaks far louder than the throw away lines in a debate.  But the point of the matter I didn't say Clinton, I said this about "Clinton supporters", and the Clinton supporters I have seen here, and on other blogs have been no less insulting that Obama supporters.  Or haven't you been paying attention?

    Parent
    You must not (none / 0) (#238)
    by PlayInPeoria on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:08:44 PM EST
    of read some of the posts around here. This site supports UNITY of the Dems for the GE! This site encourages voting Dem!!!

    That said... we do not have the illusion that Sen Obama or Sen Clinton are the perfect pols.

    I'm not sure hwo "they" are? But I know that Hillary odds are not that good.

    I can assure you that I will challenge insults from Obama supporters.... for the good of the party.

    For myself, I watch how I frame my comments about Sen Obama. So please do not stereotype me.

    Parent

    Well That Is Great (none / 0) (#246)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:16:01 PM EST
    And a theme I have not seen here very much. Please trumpet it loudly, because your fellows here do not seem to be on board with you. At best I have heard some hrc commenters, under duress, admit that they will hold their nose and vote for BHO if he is the nominee. But mostly here it is slam and slime BHO at every possible opportunity.

    That you would not notice that fact is telling.

    Parent

    I will (none / 0) (#270)
    by PlayInPeoria on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:32:55 PM EST
    still hold my nose and vote for BHO.

    I do not want a repub in the WH. We will lose so much if the repubs win the GE.

    My concerns with BHO is his ability to get in WH. There are times when I hear him saysomething I just want to beat my head on my desk!

    Like BTD... I can see the flaws in both candidates. At this time I just believe HRC has a better chance to get in the WH... flaws and all.

    I'm VERY concerned that Sen Obama has painted himself into a corner on race. My concern is not "blaming" but for electiblity.

    Parent

    I have been saying the same thing (none / 0) (#274)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:38:48 PM EST
    but I am not sure now.
    the more I think about the "typical white person" thing the more it bugs and me

    Parent
    we are a varied group of people. (none / 0) (#155)
    by hellothere on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:19:57 PM EST
    instead of coming on here looking for a fight, i suggest you engage in conversation. but that might be asking too much. you seemed interested in insults and commercials for obama.

    Parent
    Wine drinking, sushi eating (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by otherlisa on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:38:33 PM EST
    entertainment industry bureaucrat here!

    Parent
    Excuse me (none / 0) (#163)
    by standingup on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:24:35 PM EST
    There are plenty of blogs where your attitude is well received but this is not one of them.  Enough of the derogatory comments.    

    Parent
    That's nice. Lump everyone in together (none / 0) (#182)
    by shoephone on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:35:41 PM EST
    in your overly generalized view.

    As an Edwards supporter turned Hillary supporter, I will vote for whoever gets the nomination. Because I am a Democrat. If it's Obama in November, then he'll get my vote. Doesn't mean I have to shut my eyes and ears and mouth when I am confronted with his never-ending gaffes.

    I did hope we could have a new president who wouldn't have to rely on scripted speeches and teleprompters.

    Parent

    10-Year-Old dying of cancer; daughter's last wish (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by jerry on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:33:49 PM EST
    I wanted to ask people to read my diary, detailing a 10 year old girl dying of cancer whose father is in a Federal Prison on a non-violent drug charge....

    A funny per Marc Ambinder (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:08:11 PM EST
    Per Marc Ambinder.....

    The Obama campaign distributed Gov. Bill Richardson's endorsement speech...note the stage direction:

    I know Senator Obama well.
    I first got to know him when I chaired the last Democratic National Convention, where he gave that wonderful keynote address.

    And then, last year, as we campaigned against each other for the Presidency, I came to fully appreciate his steadfast patriotism and remarkable talents.

    I also felt a kinship with him because we both had one foreign-born parent and we both lived abroad as children.

    In part because of these experiences, Barack and I share a deep sense of our nation's special responsibilities in the world.

    [Turn toward Obama and smile]

    Barack Obama, you are an extraordinary leader who has shown courage, sound judgment and wisdom throughout your career.

    You understand the security challenges of the 21st century, and you will be an outstanding Commander in Chief.


    this is so good (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:14:41 PM EST
    that it might deserve to be used as a web address and new blog site: turntowardobamaandsmile.com. I'm not going to do it, but someone should. It's just too funny.

    Parent
    so (none / 0) (#157)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:20:31 PM EST
    if Hillary is Ralph and Obama is Jack and Richardson is Piggy who is Simon?  Ferrarro?

    Parent
    Wright of course (n/t) (none / 0) (#171)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:29:57 PM EST
    Heck, the first version was really weird (none / 0) (#172)
    by Cream City on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:30:31 PM EST
    so be glad for the editing as above.  This was the first draft:

    In part because of these experiences, Barack and I share a deep sense of our nation's special responsibilities in the world.

    [Turn toward Obama and, as the heavens open above, and the all-encompassing epiphany hits, smile]

    Parent

    Aaah, thanks I needed that :) (none / 0) (#179)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:34:58 PM EST
    They published (none / 0) (#133)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:10:33 PM EST
    The script?

    Singer's right.

    It's amateur hour.

    Do you have a link?

    Parent

    Marc Ambinder (none / 0) (#190)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:38:48 PM EST
    at the Atlantic or check out Politico.  I like Politico (and RCP.)  Note.. just don't read the comments at Ben Smith.  Interesting items on both sides but the posters are.. a little extreme.

    Parent
    LOL (n/t) (none / 0) (#134)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:11:01 PM EST
    I'm sure (none / 0) (#140)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:12:32 PM EST
    that will bring great relief to all Americans sharing in the "romantic" war experience.

    Parent
    Perfect Union (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:12:10 PM EST
    The speech has drawn out a lot of discussion about race here at work.  Some echo the O'Reily line about being scared to talk about race for fear of being called a racist.  My position is that anyone honestly expressing all their views and feelings on race is likely to offend at least someone.  But if you approaching it in a sincere and earnest effort it is likely to be forgiven.  You should also make the effort to forgive those who have offended you.

    Good, (none / 0) (#158)
    by abfabdem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:21:56 PM EST
    Geraldine Ferraro will be glad to hear this!

    Parent
    It tends to work better (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:36:26 PM EST
    if you say you're sorry for offending.

    To me her point would have been less offending if she had said a component of his popularity is his race rather than the only reason he is even here.  But even that would offended someone.

    She took the position of saying I don't care if anyone is offended by what I say.  That's where things break down.

    Parent

    I have a feeling there is a need (none / 0) (#192)
    by jes on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:38:54 PM EST
    for the call for forgiveness after Obama (typical white person), Kerry (he can heal Islam because he is black), and McCaskil (on non-victim black candidate).

    I'm pretty sure, however, the forgiveness will flow only in one direction.

    Parent

    You're really only responsible for yourself (none / 0) (#211)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:47:54 PM EST
    and it's about more than politics.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#197)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:40:49 PM EST
    Obama's invitation was to open up discussion about race, not close it down. I hope that the recent wave of new TL commenters (single issue HRC supporters) are not typical Americans, because if they are the topic of racism in America will turn ugly and become all about attacking the messenger.

    Parent
    It was a desperate attempt to help himself (none / 0) (#208)
    by Angel on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:45:55 PM EST
    politically.  Nothing more than that.  And besides that, who gives him the right to be the moderator for racial relations?  

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#226)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:00:12 PM EST
    if that's all it was then it's having some unintended positive results.  At least where I am.

    Parent
    You Are The One (none / 0) (#229)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:02:27 PM EST
    Appearing desperate.  And as far as claiming the right to moderate discussions you are once again attacking the messenger. He never suggested that it would, could or should be his position to be any such thing. He in effect opened discussion and said 'the ball is in your court'.

    One of his main themes, whether you like him or not, is to invite others to become active and take the ball. This clearly reflects back to his Alinsky influence, an influence he shares with HRC.

    Parent

    I have one question? (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by ajain on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:16:59 PM EST
    Why is the Obama camp going crazy attacking Hillary's character so directly and pointedly. I mean, I get it, he wants to change the subject and point fingers at her, but if he is the nominee, which a lot of people believe he will be, why do that to her and her supporters? Does he think this will draw her supporters to him.

    Also if you want to her to get out of the race does anyone really think attacking her character and denigrating her character will be something that will motivate her to drop out? I mean I would want to gut him with a knife further if I were Hillary Clinton. I mean I'm sure she wants a Dem to win, but certainly this kind of blatant insult will not make her want to do anything to help him out, given that she really does like John McCain.

    Hum (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:20:06 PM EST
    Desperation and Delusional come to mind. This is not a long term thinking guy. He is short term cuz it has always worked for him.He is going to find out, it doesn't on the big stage.

    Parent
    he is doing it (5.00 / 2) (#162)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:23:57 PM EST
    because he sees the nomination slipping through his fingers.

    Parent
    Because (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:24:47 PM EST
    Because he's a different kind of candidate running a different kind of campaign?

    Seriously though, the annoying thing is that many members of the media will still say things like, "he doesn't attack, it's hard for him to respond to attacks because he's above that" even after recent actions.  Because he's "different" and "transcendent".  Despite evidence to the contrary.

    Just like McCain is still a "straight talker" after shifting his positions on a million issues and being caught in outright lies like the Iran/Al Qeada thing.  

    Once something is repeated by the media enough, it becomes gospel.  Even if it isn't true.

    Parent

    One big reason (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Virginian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:36:43 PM EST
    Obama has topped out on support

    His campaign has determined that the people who support him in these states already will not-not support him should he turn negative...but chipping away at the late deciders is what negative campaigns are good at...hence...negative campaigning

    Parent

    the campaigns are to the media, not people (none / 0) (#161)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:23:28 PM EST
    so yes, this is about attempting a distraction and to get the sharks to focus on her for a while instead of him. It's all about short attention spans, insipid media bots (MSM), and childish media bots (bloggers) and what they focus on day to day.

    Is that cynical or what. Jeez. Well, that's what it seems like.

    So no, I don't think it about wining votes directly, or influencing Hillary, or any of that. It's simply about the daily news feed and what it pays attention too.

    Parent

    hypocrite comes to mind. think about this. (none / 0) (#168)
    by hellothere on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:26:04 PM EST
    in the now famous tapes it is always someone else who is at fault. the rev is certainly no bill cosby! maybe that translates and maybe not, but it came to mind. the it is always that awful woman's fault mantra.

    Parent
    Because (none / 0) (#266)
    by nemo52 on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:30:07 PM EST
    his campaign is all about "a new kind of politics."

    Parent
    Richardson, so much for sticking by your delegates (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:40:59 PM EST
    So what happened to Richardson's statement earlier that the SD's should stick by their constituents? I guess he's on the Kerry/Kennedy hypocrisy train.

    Do you think (none / 0) (#204)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:42:56 PM EST
    They will fly him to PA, WV and IN so he can talk about NAFTA lol? I'm thinking this endorsement is going to backfire

    Parent
    You're not seriously going to suggest that the (none / 0) (#216)
    by Rigelian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:51:16 PM EST
    close vote in New Mexico gives a clear indication where New Mexico's delegates would go are you?  The razor thin differential doesn't tell anyone anything or suggest that any super delegate should be pushed to support one candidate or the other.  

    But more to the point, I agree that superdelegates should be free to take into account "all" of the variables present before them, including but not limited to the way their constituencies voted, the popular vote and the ultimate impact on the party of chosing one candiate over the other.  

    So from my perspective, not Bill Richardson's or Hilary Clinton's or Barack Obama's superdelegates should respect the delegate process and the delegate count but they should not be bound to it.

    Parent

    glad to see you agree with (none / 0) (#222)
    by jes on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:56:13 PM EST
    us. And glad to see that Richardson has now come around to our view as well.

    Parent
    I don't know if Richardson has or has not come (none / 0) (#233)
    by Rigelian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:05:34 PM EST
    around to "our" view.  New Mexico is a poor example, a toss up, logically leaving him the leeway to decide either which way.  Rather than suggesting that Richardson is a hypocrite or has changed his mind, take into account what the New Mexico election really was...a tie.

    Parent
    nope, being sarcastic (none / 0) (#224)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:58:54 PM EST
    I agree that the SD's should do whatever they think is right. I was just pointing out some hypocrisy in a snarky way of course. :-)

    Parent
    Bill Clinton strikes again! (1.00 / 1) (#173)
    by magster on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:31:05 PM EST
    Said essentially that McCain and Clinton love this country and Obama doesn't.

    Way to stay classy.

    Here is todays' Obama smear: (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:35:52 PM EST

    "We believe that this is a really important issue as super-delegates decide who will be electable in the fall," Plouffe said. "The American people are not going to elect someone who isn't seen as honest and trustworthy."

    Uh-huh, Obama's running such a positive campaign.

    Parent

    Link Please. (none / 0) (#181)
    by sweetthings on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:35:27 PM EST
    nt

    Parent
    No linky (1.00 / 1) (#195)
    by magster on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:39:09 PM EST
    Just summarizing a "breaking" from Norah O'D when she was talking to Chuck Todd.

    Parent
    Right... (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:41:34 PM EST
    How about context or an exact quote. This isn't Kos

    Parent
    It's already covered at DailyObama (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:48:26 PM EST
    Obama?  Godlier than god? At Daily Obama, we decide, you listen

    leting the veterans know (and I paraphrase as I cannot find the actual quote yet) that when we have the campaign this fall, either McCain or Hillary would bring about pride in the military, and has a history of pro-Military without "all that other stuff messing it up".

    How dreadful.. and accurate.


    Parent

    I'll wait for the exact quote... (5.00 / 1) (#221)
    by sweetthings on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:56:02 PM EST
    Before getting outraged.

    That said, neither Clinton nor Obama has ANY business putting McCain above the other. If that actually occurred (and I'm not taking DK's word for it that it did) then Clinton deserves to be chastised for it.

    I know the primary is hard on everyone, but there's still a GE to win afterwards. Let's not forget who the real bad guys are.

    Parent

    I think you are wrong (5.00 / 2) (#225)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:59:36 PM EST
    Apparently you can't talk about race without being a racist and now you can't point out the obvious on the military. Exactly what can we talk about or have we all entered Stalin land?

    I'm so sick of this. The truth is McCain is better on military issues than Obama. If you don't like it, get over it. It is the truth.

    Parent

    It's not about what I like. (5.00 / 1) (#239)
    by sweetthings on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:08:58 PM EST
    It's about making sure a Democrat wins in November.

    It's not that I think we all need to join hands and sing kumbaya together. I don't mind Hillary pointing out Obama's inexperience, just as I don't mind Obama pointing out that large numbers of voters don't trust Hillary. (I'm not exactly thrilled to see that sort of thing from either camp, but I understand it and accept it.) This is politics, after all. If Clinton wants to come out and say "Obama is weaker that I am on military matters," fine, go for it. Where you cross the line is when you say "Obama is weaker than John McCain on military matters." Building yourself up, even at the expense of the other guy in the race, is fine. Building up the opposing party's candidate? Tainto.

    The GE is larger than the personal ambitions of either candidate. More important than getting Hillary or Obama into the White House is making sure a Democrat gets into the White House. I realize there's no way to prevent Obama and Hillary from bloodying each other up a bit, and that's fine, but when you start talking up Republicans, you've gone too far.

    Let's not forget who the bad guys are.

    Parent

    Nope (none / 0) (#249)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:17:19 PM EST
    When you are sitting in a war zone it isn't about republicans and democrats. It is about who has your back. The fact is, Obama will be a disaster and as a person who has spent two years in war zone, I care more about my life and the lives of my friends than Democratic party politics....especially when I don't think Obama is actually a real democrat to begin with.

    Obama isn't qualified. McCain is a disaster. Obama will be a bigger one from where I have been sitting. It is all about your perspective.

    Parent

    Bull (1.00 / 1) (#234)
    by magster on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:06:42 PM EST
    Bomb Iran
    100 years

    C'mon!

    Parent

    Atrios (5.00 / 3) (#228)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:00:36 PM EST
    Put this up on his blog.  Says he transcribed it from the TV.  I can only assume this is what they are freaking about, although I'm not sure how anyone could disagree with the sentiments:

    It'd be a great thing if we had an election where you had two people who love this country, who were devoted to the interest of the country and people could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues instead of all this other stuff which always seems to intrude on our politics.

    Please note that the words "Obama" and "McCain" don't appear.  (Nor does "Clinton.")

    Parent

    So then they think Obama is un-American (5.00 / 2) (#230)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:03:20 PM EST
    since they're reading into this statement. Snark. :-)

    Parent
    Is this Bill (none / 0) (#260)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:25:54 PM EST
    talking about Hillary running against McCain?  If so, what is so odd about having a discussion of a Clinton versus McCain campaign?  Oh well, MSNBC is trying to help Obama out, that's their job.

    Parent
    Turn on MSNBC right now (1.00 / 1) (#206)
    by magster on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:45:01 PM EST
    Not everyone is at home (none / 0) (#210)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:47:16 PM EST
    to turn on their television. If you are going to report something, do it. Completely.

    Parent
    A. Consider your source, and (5.00 / 1) (#209)
    by Cream City on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:46:47 PM EST
    B. You now cannot be considered a credible source, either.  That's a "summary"?  And okay to no link, but no facts -- place, time, etc. -- to back it up.

    Bottom line: It's just attack chatter using up bandwidth.

    Parent

    I officially don't care.... (5.00 / 2) (#217)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:51:24 PM EST
    Obama camp has just made me jump over the edge. I don't care what Bill or Hillary Clinton say about him anymore after all the crap that they've been saying about them for the past few days. There, I said it.

    Parent
    Me Neither (5.00 / 2) (#223)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:58:02 PM EST
    And neither will the military. They saw those Wright videos about a week before the general US population. They like McCain and Clinton. They weren't thrilled with the idea of Obama to begin with but after those videos they are cursing him.

    Parent
    yup (5.00 / 1) (#255)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:22:10 PM EST
    You can't get the white woman (5.00 / 1) (#263)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:27:59 PM EST
    vote anyplace by telling them they sort of suck.  You can't get their husband's vote or their brother's vote or their grandpa's vote that way either.  You can't get the military vote by telling them that what they've been doing for five years was a mistake after you funded it for five years and they didn't get a choice in the matter.  You will never get their support by telling them you can't straighten anything out without mercs because they aren't enough.  They are enough and they know it, and one of them is worth at least five mercs even if he or she is the most loser soldier out there when it comes to deeds done for the day, and they cost five times less and they've taken an oath and made a commitment...oh, I just bather on..sorry

    Parent
    more than a week (none / 0) (#262)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:27:36 PM EST
    Except (none / 0) (#227)
    by standingup on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:00:32 PM EST
    you conveniently left out the part where Chuck Todd said that there was something odd about the comment and they really needed to review the video for the full context of the comment.  At least Todd is trying to be objective.  

    Parent
    Link: a real character gap (none / 0) (#219)
    by TalkRight on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:54:36 PM EST
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Whos_unelectable_now.html

    Plouffe cited "a real character gap" and "real issues if she's going to be our nominee."

    "Sen. Clinton will have a narrow playing field, in terms of the states she can put in play, and she does have this issue around trustworthiness that will give her no margin for error," he said. "It's hard to alleviate that if you continually engage in this misleading of voters."


    Parent
    When, where, etc. -- y'know, facts? (nt) (none / 0) (#194)
    by Cream City on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:39:04 PM EST
    Double dare on the link, buddy. (none / 0) (#199)
    by Angel on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:41:25 PM EST
    Yeah for Geraldine Ferraro. She (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 12:55:58 PM EST
    didn't appreciate being included in The Speech.

    I saw that! (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Kathy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 12:57:07 PM EST
    And mentioned it earlier.  Said she was appalled to be compared to a bigoted racist, or something like that.

    Actually, I think it's a gift that Obama did this, because now she has a reason to make the talk show circuit and bash Obama some more.  The "typical white woman" is an angry white woman, it seems.

    Parent

    using that reasoning (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:20:16 PM EST
    Hillary should give Wright a cabinet post.

    Parent
    secretary of inflamation (none / 0) (#50)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:32:02 PM EST
    that sounds good

    Parent
    Thats right (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Virginian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:51:04 PM EST
    Hillary is pushing this story hard by not commenting on it at all!

    Crafty media manipulator that Hillary Clinton is!

    Parent

    The way she breached (none / 0) (#143)
    by Daryl24 on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:13:49 PM EST
    Obama's passport then covered up by breaching her own and McCain's while getting Condi to cover for her was a master stroke.

    She's Phyllis Dietrichson's big sisiter.  

     

    Parent

    Yeah Clinton made Obama (none / 0) (#53)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:33:17 PM EST
    send out the photo of Wright with Clinton.  That was yet another gaffe.

    Parent
    but that was at least a funny one (none / 0) (#57)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:34:10 PM EST
    Not funny ha ha though (none / 0) (#64)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:36:11 PM EST
    well (none / 0) (#73)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:42:12 PM EST
    I laughed but I may not be the best barometer.


    Parent
    I did too. (none / 0) (#180)
    by nycstray on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:35:13 PM EST
    I also laughed when they started pushing the NAFTA BS based on her schedule.

    Did they really want to go there? Hello? Ohio?

    Parent

    CNNs going with the Obama (none / 0) (#220)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:55:17 PM EST
    Nafta spin.  Lou Dobbs debunked it yesterday although Jessica Yellin tried as hard as she could to lean Obama's way.  CNN has jumped back on the Obama line today though.  It's annoying.

    Parent
    Hasn't her part in NAFTAgate (none / 0) (#269)
    by nycstray on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:31:41 PM EST
    been totally debunked by the Canadian Government?

    She and her surrogates can remind voters of his, ummm, duplicity on the issue since he put it back out there. She has several people that remember how she felt about it during the Clinton admin. I think one on CNN, MSNBC and Fox.

    Parent

    A woman of a certain generation (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:25:31 PM EST
    too.  Obama's camp tried to cover by saying his grandmother's attitude was that of a certain generation.  

    Parent
    really? (none / 0) (#38)
    by diplomatic on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:20:47 PM EST
    I think that taking on Ferraro led directly to a backlash and unloading on Obama by FOX News.

    Parent
    not only that (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:25:05 PM EST
    i get the distinct impression that she is not ready to shut up yet.


    Parent
    not to intrude with facts (none / 0) (#47)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:31:07 PM EST
    but she resigned

    Parent
    man (none / 0) (#76)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:43:17 PM EST
    "even worse" for you must Hydra like terrifying.


    Parent
    No...Hillary dumped her because (none / 0) (#99)
    by Virginian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:52:34 PM EST
    her comments weren't in line with the campaign...

    Something Obama did with Samantha Powers too...

    Parent

    I think the hit on Ferraro came not (5.00 / 0) (#58)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:34:32 PM EST
    because her remarks were so offensive, but because they were so obviously true, and dangerous to his campaign.

    Parent
    Exactly, Obama said he would not (none / 0) (#178)
    by ding7777 on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:33:48 PM EST
    be in this position unless he was black

    If he were white, [Obama] once bluntly noted, he would simply be one of nine freshmen senators, almost certainly without a multimillion-dollar book deal and a shred of celebrity. Or would he have been elected at all
    ?

    Parent
    She should appreciate it... (none / 0) (#8)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 12:58:47 PM EST
    ...it gives her an opportunity to be a part of history. LOL.

    Parent
    What did Obama (none / 0) (#7)
    by talkingpoint on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 12:58:15 PM EST
    promised Richardson? A VP spot? What would make this man join such a viotile presidential run? Where is Howard Dean? He needs to be replaced. Have the Democratic party gone mad?

    a doughnut? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 12:59:59 PM EST
    Oh, that's mean (none / 0) (#11)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:03:11 PM EST
    (But I smiled.) No, maybe he thinks Obama is going to win and wants to be on the winning side. Or maybe he really does prefer Obama. He wouldn't be the first person.

    That said, Richardson is a likely choice for Obama for VP, whereas I don't think he would be Clinton's choice. I think he would be asked to serve in a Clinton administration, but not as VP.

    Parent

    It is his only choice (none / 0) (#14)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:04:51 PM EST
    Once he wrote off Florida and Ohio. They think they are going to win it through the southwest strategy but that is a delusional plan. He might get NM that way but he won't get CO and I have serious doubts about NV.

    Parent
    I think he has a good shot at CO (none / 0) (#16)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:06:01 PM EST
    but I don't know the state all that well.  Why don't you think he can take it?

    Parent
    he was given more than one (none / 0) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    slot in the former clinton administration and  this is the thanks they get.
    I dont see it happening again.
    he knew this was his only chance at a cabinet job.

    Parent
    wasnt exactly my point (none / 0) (#30)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:17:15 PM EST
    it didnt suggest it it said it (none / 0) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:26:05 PM EST
    you are not a cabinet member (none / 0) (#51)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:32:51 PM EST
    right?

    Parent
    that won't get you any promotions. (none / 0) (#159)
    by hellothere on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:22:15 PM EST
    you show a shocking lack of understanding of business culture.

    Parent
    He "turned the page". (none / 0) (#174)
    by Fabian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:31:27 PM EST
    He "moved on".

    Parent
    Richardson tipped his hand (none / 0) (#69)
    by MKS on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:40:58 PM EST
    long ago.....When he first dropped out, he said that he had gotten to know the candidates on the campaign trail and was impressed.....He had known Hillary for years....He could only have been talking about Obama....

    When Richardson was watching the Super Bowl with Bill, Bill looked deflated--as if Richardson had told him whom he would endorse and it wasn't going to be Hillary.....

    Bill just kept Richardson on the sidelines longer....  

    Parent

    Question: has Talk Left (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 12:58:48 PM EST
    ever been invited to participate in an Obama campaign conference call?  

    I have brain mush (none / 0) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:29:12 PM EST
    And you just keep insisting on asking pertinent questions.  Give my neuron a break man ;)  My husband just bought me a new laptop, my first laptop actually.  I may go blog by the lake because blogging next to the kitchen sink is not inspiring neural firing.

    Parent
    Just don't throw that sink at your new laptop!! nt (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:35:02 PM EST
    I don't want a turn (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:21:04 PM EST
    I want you to figure out this online blogomess and write that all-encompassing sensical fully healing diary NOW.  With the 5th anniversary of the Iraq War here it is personal for me and I'm in a fugue.  I'm scheduled to write a diary at Docudharma tommorow and my husband was kind enough to send me a very fact based declassified 5 year Iraq War report yesterday and I have brain mush, severe brain mush.

    A Fugue (none / 0) (#92)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:48:53 PM EST
    Wow, I hope it is a five part double fugue. Good to hear that your brain is getting a serious workout..  why am I not surprised?  

    Parent
    I'll give it a hell of a go (none / 0) (#118)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:05:27 PM EST
    but Beethoven I'm not, unless we are talking about the dog.

    Parent
    I've been working on Beethoven's (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by MarkL on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:19:53 PM EST
    fugue from op. 106 for quite a while now.  That's a great piece.

    Parent
    Gallup (none / 0) (#60)
    by magster on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:34:54 PM EST
    Obama within 2, +5 in overall margin in two days since "the speech" (not to be confused with "the drive" or "the fumble")

    and first upset in the tourney happening to Gonzaga.

    Natl polls don't matter (none / 0) (#70)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:41:18 PM EST
    Have you looked at PA and WV? He is getting his clock cleaned by double digits.

    Parent
    Funny (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by magster on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:08:22 PM EST
    It mattered a couple of days ago.

    Parent
    Still surprising (none / 0) (#93)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:49:58 PM EST
    he numbers didn't drop more. I don't think I've ever seen a worse week in the press for a candidate.

    Parent
    Yeah, just a president so far ;) (none / 0) (#121)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:06:38 PM EST
    Go Davidson (none / 0) (#87)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:47:16 PM EST
    And Rassmussen (none / 0) (#213)
    by standingup on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:49:18 PM EST
    is showing the trend is still going the other direction with Obama now only one point over Clinton, 45% to 44%, from an 8 pt lead prior to the Wright story.  

    Parent
    Richardson (none / 0) (#62)
    by Lil on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:35:16 PM EST
    keeps the race story moving, as he claims one of the reasons for supporting O was because of his "speech". Not sure that was so smart.  Also, Richardson was one of the worst candidates I ever saw, often coming off as not that smart, IMO.  I kept wondering what all the hype was about him early on. After a day of listening to snippets of his endorsement, people will remeber why he's not running anymore either. Did Murtha's endorsement get this much attention?

    He somehow heard something in that speech... (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:41:42 PM EST
    ...that inspired him regarding immigration? I believe that's what he said. And then apparently in his endorsement he said in spanish....this is a man that understands us, this is a man that respects us.  So maybe now we are going to get the same good Latino/bad Latino distinctions that were implied about whites in The Speech. Good = support Obama. Bad = support anybody else. Egads, I guess I am in the bad Latino camp.

    Parent
    Our perhaps simply Richardson believes this. (5.00 / 1) (#261)
    by Rigelian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:26:33 PM EST
    This has nothing to do with good Latino bad Latino it may have to do with believing what Obama said was true.  A lot of people thought the speech was good, perhaps Richardson believed so as well, perhaps, just perhaps it resonated with him, as it did not resonate with you.

    Parent
    Excellent point (none / 0) (#106)
    by Lil on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:56:31 PM EST
    Disclaimer from me: I am not Latino. I think Richardson's endorsement is stupid timing. As wrong as it may be, white folks afraid of scary brown people will just see this as teaming up against whites. It would have been better if he endorsed him without using the speech as part of his reasoning. I actually believe in most of what Barrack said in his speech, but I know a lot of white folks who don't or can't or won't. That does not bode well for the GE

    Parent
    I am also Latino and had a similar thought (none / 0) (#242)
    by diplomatic on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:11:10 PM EST
    and don't forget - people choose to be gay (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Josey on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:43:23 PM EST
    Amazing that Richardson believes that.


    Parent
    Believe me there were times... (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:47:40 PM EST
    ...when I wished that were true.

    Parent
    It hurts my heart to read such things (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:09:11 PM EST
    but I know that surely in this country and this culture it is true.

    Parent
    The opposite of disclaimer (none / 0) (#108)
    by Lil on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:58:57 PM EST
    I am gay. I just think Richardson was a terrible candidate. Together they make the opposite case for so called, unity.

    Parent
    No wonder he endorsed (none / 0) (#245)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:14:31 PM EST
    Obama.  See McClurkin.

    Parent
    Whenever I hear Richardson's name (none / 0) (#86)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:46:31 PM EST
    I immed. recall his claim he was drafted by MLB.  

    Parent
    Oof - Richardson talked about (none / 0) (#166)
    by Fabian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:25:04 PM EST
    piping the Great Lakes water to the arid states.  Last year, IIRC.

    First of all, it won't happen because the Great Lakes will scream bloody murder.
    Second of all, it won't happen because Canada will scream bloody murder.
    Third of all, it won't happen because by the time any water got to the destination, it would be too expensive to use for anything but bottled water.  Logistically it would be difficult.
    Economically, it wouldn't be feasible.

    If you want to be president, try not to say idiotic things that also piss off multiple states, especially states with serious economic problems.

    Parent

    Thanks, yes, writing from the shoreline (5.00 / 1) (#279)
    by Cream City on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:43:20 PM EST
    (okay, a few blocks away) of one of the lovely Great Lakes . . . Richardson made a fool of himself here with that line, showing that he knows nothing about our ever-lower lake levels (among the factors may be . . . the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers again, the folks who brought you NOLA's levees?).  And it is an international issue which he complicated; a fourth of this country's population as well as much of Canada relies on the Great Lakes for our very lives as well as our livelihoods.  (In my state, where tourism is the number-one industry, the lowered lake levels are contributing to a depressed economy.)

    Richardson on the ticket with Obama would not be a boon in a lot of the Great Lakes region, where that stupid quote of his would be dredged up again and again like those blasted zebra mussels that came in from the ore carriers on the locks of the St. Lawrence Seaway.

    And if you don't know what that means -- well, all politics are local politics.

    Parent

    the smell of inevitability Mr. Anderson (none / 0) (#68)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:40:21 PM EST
    The Obama campaign conference today was apparently all nasty on HIllary time. Given that, and the pathetic picture released to the NY times, all these gaffs (typical white person, etc.), the ongoing Wright and Rezco fun, and of course the polls, my instinct tells me it's all over for Obama. Oh, he may steal the primary from Hillary (via x-ing out MI and FL). But it's over for him. He can no more win the GE than Richarson. Stick a fork in him.

    So what will the DLC and SD's do. We're all watching. I suspect they've bought into Obamamania too much to back out now. I think there's even a psychology label for that when you've invested emotionally into something, it's very hard to change even as the facts change.

    So the Obamabots like Agent Smith tell us the Obama win is inevitable.  Perhaps it is. And Hillary certainly isn't a Neo that can pull a rabbit out of the hat. The only thing that can make this fair is if MI and FL can be counted in some way. I don't think that will happen in a reasonable way. But perhaps a miracle can happen.

    Oooh, maybe a better analogy given the youth of the blogs and Obamabots would be the kids in the Lord of the Flies. They've gone a bit crazy, and made a horrible mess of things. Except in this case I don't think the adults are going to show up just at the end to save them. You know, I never liked the ending of that, I never thought the adults should have rescued them. Hmm.

    Just a suggestion, I always hated (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by jes on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:52:54 PM EST
    being called a Hillbot over at Big O, can we please dispense with the Obamabot slur?

    Parent
    That's cool with me.... (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:02:49 PM EST
    ...cause I've got obama supporters in my family and they are not cultists, only one of them likes Kool Aid, and none of them go on the Internet to anonymously bash clinton supporters, at least not that I know of.

    Parent
    they (none / 0) (#82)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:44:15 PM EST
    didnt rescue all of them

    Parent
    I wonder if the new Gallop poll (none / 0) (#79)
    by NJDem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 01:43:47 PM EST
    will hold after the "typical white person" comment gets around.  And, yeah, the state polls matter now and they look great for HRC.  

    Does Hillary (none / 0) (#117)
    by Lil on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:03:31 PM EST
    have to run the table at this point? I don't think she can do that.

    Parent
    this isn't going to be about the math (none / 0) (#138)
    by diplomatic on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:12:14 PM EST
    Either the party will decide Obama is electable or they won't.  Neither can win without a wave of superdelegates going one way or the other.

    Parent
    Obama's old spreadsheet (none / 0) (#151)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:17:23 PM EST
    would be useful right now.  He predicted he would loose Penn by 4 or 5.  I wonder what the rest of the states are like.

    Parent
    Air America just now (none / 0) (#113)
    by abfabdem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:01:46 PM EST
    had a caller on the Ed Schulz show who lamented that the Clintons weren't doing more to support Obama in the Wright flap.  He agreed and stated that they "played it safe" while also sounding sorrowful that she did not step up in this matter.  After the Obama camp called them racists, why should they?  Anything they would say would just be twisted.  Then another caller brought up that Wright helped counsel Bill during the Lewinsky scandal so they have a relationship with him too!  Is this true?  PS - Is Chris Matthews stepping down for suggesting Obama is where he is because he is black?

    wow (none / 0) (#119)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:05:42 PM EST
    a lot of stuff in there
    the Obama campaign absurdly put out a pic of Bill shaking hands with Wright in the Oval office as if that was the same as calling him your personal sprirtual adviser and sitting in a pew and listening to him for 20 years.
    it was total wash that got laughs and derision from the MSM.
    god I HOPE Tweety is stepping down.  and I hope someone slips a cowpie under him when he does.


    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#126)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:08:13 PM EST
    And they claim it is HRC who will do anything to win. These people are delusional because at the very root....they don't understand why he is unelectable. That scares the hell out of me.

    They screw up in Afghanistan and they will blame in on the Fijians or something.

    Parent

    Many of these people began lobbying (none / 0) (#152)
    by Virginian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:19:45 PM EST
    for him to run in 2004 after his convention speech.

    His entire candidacy branched from that speech...in many regards his campaign and candidacy is completely rhetorically based and rooted...nothing there but words...what does happen when a speech won't fix a problem?

    Parent

    I assume Schultz took that ball (none / 0) (#215)
    by shoephone on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:50:53 PM EST
    and ran with it.

    Schultz = Obnoxious and Clueless rolled into one.

    Parent

    Obama: "Be a Dem for a day" (none / 0) (#120)
    by Josey on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:06:14 PM EST
    Will Limbaugh be indicted for voter fraud?
    >>>On Thursday, March 20, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported that the "Cuyahoga County Board of Election has launched an investigation that could lead to criminal charges against voters who maliciously switched parties for the March 4 presidential primary." According to the report, "One voter scribbled the following addendum to his pledge as a new Democrat: "For one day only."
    http://www.alternet.org/democracy/80392

    don't think that's voter fraud (none / 0) (#132)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:10:08 PM EST
    If the rules allow you to switch parties easily, how is that voter fraud.

    Parent
    Allegiance (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by waldenpond on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:31:46 PM EST
    Apparently you sign a pledge card.  You aren't supposed to smucking around in elections.  When you join the party it is with the intent of supporting the party in the future blah, blah, blah.  Signing dem for a day on your form was not too bright.

    Parent
    Gold Bars Luskin Speaks (none / 0) (#142)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:13:40 PM EST
    "If the government gets a Suspicious Activity Report about a high-ranking public official, they would be negligent not to pursue it, if only to determine whether there was bribery or extortion involved," said Robert D. Luskin, a defense lawyer and former federal prosecutor. Mr. Luskin said that as the case proceeds, the more difficult questions could well involve how the information about Mr. Spitzer became public and whether the government "will prosecute Spitzer if it doesn't prosecute others in the same situation."

    but IOKIYAR because:

    Mr. Simon said it was unusual for the department to bring criminal charges in a prostitution case in which there was no allegation of the exploitation of children, human trafficking or some far more serious crime.

    He said that in his eight years in the Brooklyn office in the 1990s, he could not recall a single major criminal case that centered on prostitution charges. "There were a lot of serious crimes -- organized crime, narcotics cases, major financial crime investigations," he said in an interview. "Prostitution was not a high priority."

    [snip]

    And for years, they [the FBI] acknowledge, the department has rarely, if ever, prosecuted or even identified the clients of a prostitution ring.

    NYT via war and piece

    On CNN Anderson Cooper Blog it is writen (none / 0) (#160)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:22:32 PM EST
    About looking at that the Chickens come home to roost comment. The blogger, Roland Martin, dissects the 911 sermon. At the end he says "By the way, nowhere in this sermon did he said "God damn America." I'm not sure which sermon that came from." And that is the kind of ignorance of facts that we are delivered on a major website. He speaks of looking at other sermons, but he should have investigated all the sermons before he made it look as if it was all made up. Maybe if he looked at the UTube video, he would hear the words himself with visuals to boot and scoot.

    GDA all made up by the Hillary campaign (none / 0) (#170)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:27:57 PM EST
    didn't you know. We all just thought we heard it. We were all put in a state of temporary hypnosis by the wizards in the Hillary camp to make us think we heard that. They will do anything to win.

    Parent
    Turn toward Obama and Smile: (none / 0) (#165)
    by NJDem on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:24:50 PM EST
    LINK

    Come on, this is too funny!!!

    see #125 above for all the fun on this topic (n/t) (none / 0) (#177)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:33:33 PM EST
    God darn it! (none / 0) (#167)
    by Virginian on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:25:15 PM EST
    I am a man too! Why did I choose this pseudonym?!

    Everyone thinks "Virginian = Virginia = girls name"

    My intent was to just keep my comments free of any future job interviews and instead I have an online female persona...ohwell :)

    It's a masculine name (none / 0) (#196)
    by MKS on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 02:39:52 PM EST
    as in the old T.V. series with James Drury....

    Parent
    being gay it makes no real difference (none / 0) (#237)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:07:46 PM EST
    I will still probably screw up the pronouns.

    Parent
    Democratic principles more important than the demo (none / 0) (#235)
    by TalkRight on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:06:57 PM EST
    Democratic principles more important than the democratic party

    I would not have said the following but given the above fact let me say...

    FL/MI debacle should prompt Hillary to float a new party : "People's Voice" .. I am sure she will not only attract the votes from the core populous of the democratic party but may well take votes from Independents and Republican base who believe in the real democracy.

     

    cafferty has spoken..it's over for Hillary... (none / 0) (#240)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:09:35 PM EST
    ..because Richardson's endorsement is JUST THAT IMPORTANT. ha. And also it's over because Dick Morris said it was, and according to Cafferty, he's a former Clinton supporter too. daytime cable news is the comedy hour.

    cafferty always (5.00 / 1) (#243)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:11:13 PM EST
    reminds me of Sam.  the eagle on the muppets.

    Parent
    Someone should compile a list (none / 0) (#250)
    by diplomatic on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:17:39 PM EST
    Let's find all the instances where the media pundits and bloggers declared that it was all over for Hillary.

    They were even saying it the day BEFORE Iowa.

    Parent

    The biggest winner is Fox ... (5.00 / 1) (#272)
    by TalkRight on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:34:57 PM EST
    I am spending more time watching Fox than I have ever been.... I cannot stand my old pals in MSNBC and CNN..

    Parent
    There's a hush over the lefty blogosphere (none / 0) (#248)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:17:02 PM EST
    the market tanking sparked bundles of diaries but Obama's electibility tanking sparks not much but hush or baloney that doesn't address the tanking and only hopes to ignore it.  Was the lefty blogoshpere ever about principles or was it only what I wanted to see that I found ;)  The general populace of the United States isn't impressed with Obama's comments but in the blogosphere we are going to pretend that those losers don't matter.

    Yeah. (5.00 / 1) (#271)
    by hitchhiker on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:34:55 PM EST
    Was the lefty blogoshpere ever about principles or was it only what I wanted to see that I found

    I started asking myself that in December, when 2 of my favorite sites began to be riddled with half-truths and outright lies.  I'd been so positive that these sites were "self-correcting" -- that the users would not put up with misinformation.

    Wrong.  There was never a difference between halves of the sphere; DK and Freerepublic are populated by kindred souls.

    Parent

    God Richardson is kind of full of it.... (none / 0) (#251)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:18:34 PM EST
    He's saying it was a personal decision but it was nothing personal and yet he resents the Clintons but he loves the Clintons. I guess they gave him a real strong glass of kool aid. It's really all just cause there's something special about the guy. He's about a month too late in the messaging. Poor guy.

    God he is so going for Veep. (none / 0) (#252)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:20:18 PM EST
    Oh I think it would be so hilarious if Obama has promised that slot to a bunch of people.

    Parent
    Oh he has (none / 0) (#257)
    by dissenter on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:24:36 PM EST
    There is only way Richardson makes that endorsement.

    Obama needs to get people to think his sw strategy will work and to do that they think Richardson can get it for him. It is hilarious. They can't get CO and probably not NV and that is the key to the strategy.

    The only way Richardson sticks his neck out like that is to be promised a slot at VP. He isn't interested in a cabinet post. Been there done that.

    This endorsement is all about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

    Parent

    There are other reasons behind this (none / 0) (#256)
    by diplomatic on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:24:26 PM EST
    I am aware of some connections that Richardson has to a private organization in California that could put his decision not to endorse Hillary in perspective.

    Parent
    W, come on, spill it. (none / 0) (#277)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:42:13 PM EST
    it's out there (none / 0) (#281)
    by diplomatic on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:53:28 PM EST
    cue X files music...

    look to Northern California... lol

    Parent

    over ay MyDD (none / 0) (#284)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 03:56:35 PM EST
    they are trumpeting the comments of some anonymous "high placed clinton campaign official"
    saying Hillary only has 10% chance of taking the nomination.
    think it was Dick Morris?