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Late Night Election News

Here's an late-night roundup:

  • NY Times: Al Gore and John Edwards are holding back on endorsements. Gore, in particular, is waiting in the wings to play mediator if the race doesn't tip soon towards Hillary or Obama.
  • AP: Hillary says she can beat Obama and McCain. For her, it's not "Yes, we can" but "Yes, we will."
  • AP: Obama on Hillary: "I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she's feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal," he told reporters." Here's the video. Sexist? Very, says Lambert at Corrente Wire. [More...]

’Cause you know how women are….

Driven by feelings…. Worried about their [sex] appeal… Prone to tears… The whole phases of the moon thing…

And did you catch the dogwhistle in “periodically”?

NOTE Apparently, Andrea Mitchell and Norah O’Donnell noticed as well. Even if the boys on the bus didn’t — or approved.

I'm not going to top that one (or touch it) so I think I'll end here.

Update: Comments over 200, thread now closed. Thanks for your thoughts.

< Lightening Up: Hillary and Obama and a Little You Tube | Another Unfounded Media Attack on Bill Clinton >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Wow, I guess Obama must be really (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:53:25 PM EST
    feeling down based on the rate he's putting out nasty mailers. Does he really think he's run a negative free campaign?

    Don't know about him, but (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:56:14 PM EST
    his supporters at DK certainly do, according to an endorsement diary I just read.  

    [ Parent ]
    His DK Supporters Think He Is Going (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by MO Blue on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:01:53 AM EST
    to win the GE 65% to 35% and bring in a 60 seat Senate on his coattails too.

    [ Parent ]
    Plus enact a solid program by (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:05:27 AM EST
    reaching across the aisle.

    [ Parent ]
    Ok...I will be kind (none / 0) (#97)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:06:59 AM EST
    and go to the corner.

    [ Parent ]
    Feels like the campaign (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:57:26 PM EST
    of a spoiled child.  Just a vibe I get, you know, "woman's intuition".  I must be feeling down. ;-).

    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Steve M on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:57:32 PM EST
    It takes quite a bit for the "girls on the bus" to take Hillary's side on anything.

    Did we really need yet *another* reminder . . . (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by GV on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:58:17 PM EST
    . . . that the best democratic candidate for this election would have been Al Gore?  

    ironic (none / 0) (#183)
    by ghost2 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:18:22 AM EST
    what is Al Gore going to feel about seating or not seating Florida delegates at the convention?

    Maybe, the world is really coming to an end.  Maybe I am in a strange dream and shall wake up.  Al Gore may definitely feel he has been in a really, really strange dream the last 8 years.

    [ Parent ]

    Super Delegates Loyaltly trumps race (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Saul on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:04:57 PM EST
    Read or listen to Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, a super delegate on NPR All Things Considered who says how many black super delegates have been threatened at home that if you do not switch to Obama you will regret your reelection.  Cleaver says " You do not abandon your friends".

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=19096400&ft=1&f=1001

    That was an incredible piece. . . (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:11:52 PM EST
    Reverend Cleaver is quite an interviewee.

    Did you notice that he specifically mentioned that John Lewis was politically threatened?  Or the parable he told about holding a seat for his friend at the State of the Union address?

    Oh -- and just before the Cleaver interview?  David Falkenflick on the Clinton / MSNBC imbroglio.

    [ Parent ]

    I wonder if Lewis (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:21:49 PM EST
    seeing how DIVISIVE this would be, backed off as a result.

    [ Parent ]
    Cleaver expressing the importance (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by standingup on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:53:03 AM EST
    of loyalty is not surprising.  He made it clear in an article in The Hill last April that Obama was not guaranteed the endorsement of all members of the CBC.  The CBC asked Obama to do a fundraiser for them and he failed to find time for them.  On the other hand, Hillary and Bill held events to raise money for them.  

    Cleaver said that some caucus members would overlook Obama's failure so far to hold a fundraiser for them but added that others would be disappointed. He predicted many CBC members would end up endorsing Clinton.

    "Mrs. Clinton, as we expected her to, definitely stepped up," he said. "I think you're going to see a sizeable number of CBC members joining her campaign, not just because of the fundraiser, [but] because of her history of stepping up, not just with money but on issues."

    Loyalty may trump with good reason in this case.    

    [ Parent ]

    Wow (none / 0) (#47)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:36:59 PM EST
    Made my day. That was just brilliant interview. I wish everyone would listen to this and learn about core values.

    [ Parent ]
    Undoubtedly sexist (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:05:23 PM EST
    An outrageous comment from Obama.

    About that comment... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Firefly4625 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:15:00 PM EST
    A reader at Taylor Marsh transcribed this exchange between Norah O'Donnell and Andrea Mitchell of MSNBC today:

    Nora O'Donnell: "He said, 'I understand when she's down (emphasis hers), that she makes these kinds of attacks. It's getting a little personal."

    Andrea Mitchell: "It's getting a little personal and, very frankly, you know how deeply we interpreted every comment to look for some sort of racial motivation before South Carolina. A lot of people said it was there. But, you know, when you start describing a female (emphasis hers) candidate as being "down" and "striking back." I don't know, that's a little edgy, don't you think?"

    Nora O'Donnell: "Yeah. And I think there's gonna be a lot more comments about that."

    [ Parent ]

    Good for them (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:18:02 PM EST
    Maybe they have gotten sick of the sexism finally.

    [ Parent ]
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Steve M on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:22:27 AM EST
    I really didn't think those two media creatures had it in them.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks, Lambert (none / 0) (#17)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:16:19 PM EST
    was looking for links on their comments.

    [ Parent ]
    IF Obama should loose Wisconsin (none / 0) (#65)
    by felizarte on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:50:23 PM EST
    it might cause him to make more comments that would eventually lead to his implosion.  He would have proven that he is indeed arrogant  (I would use petulant) as some posters have suggested. And Hillary would look poised, steady and tough!

    I wonder if the MSM will again give him a pass on this.

    [ Parent ]

    huh? sexist? (1.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Tano on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:12:50 PM EST
    could you explain?

    [ Parent ]
    Corrente did (none / 0) (#16)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:15:35 PM EST
    read the post.

    [ Parent ]
    touche' (1.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Tano on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:24:22 PM EST
    sorry, I really should have done so.

    This is hilarious.

    PERIODically! Woo woo - dog whistle!
    Aw sweet jeezus....
    the man said the word periodically. Its back to the kitchen to bake cookies for half the population!!!

    And he used the word "feeling".
    Sexist????

    Are you guys on drugs or something?

    Yeah, its sexist alright. Men don't have feelings?  Obama has never said a word about his own feelings?

    Please, tell me this is a joke.

    [ Parent ]

    Please go away (none / 0) (#39)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:28:03 PM EST
    Your embrace of obvious sexism is not appreciated tonight.

    Seriously, you will start a  flame war, WITH ME.

    I ask you in the most polite terms, please leave this thread.

    [ Parent ]

    You won;t mind (none / 0) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:19:03 PM EST
    if I write about that comment tomorrow I hope.

    I want to cool off first.

    [ Parent ]

    Sure, go right ahead (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:29:39 PM EST
    It's pretty incredible.

    I was wondering if it somehow ties into his own relationships..does he resent that his wife is "the boss"?

    Here's another good article from December by Marc Ambinder in The Atlantic on Obama and Hillary's relationship, Teacher and Apprentice.

    [ Parent ]

    I am no fan of that type of (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:32:29 PM EST
    armchair psychoanalysis but it would be absurd to deny that within every man there are sexist tendencies just as there are racist tendencies in all of us.

    We battle against them as much as we can.

    I am flabbergasted by the comment.

    [ Parent ]

    Kathy? (none / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:40:09 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I (none / 0) (#202)
    by tek on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 09:24:33 AM EST
    just watched the clip of Obama making the sexist comment. No wonder this guy loves Ronald Reagan, he's doing a great acting job! And then I love where he says people aren't interested in Hillary's attacks they're interested in sending their kids to college, getting jobs, etc. Right, and Hillary has no ideas on how to help them do that.

    Anyone else think it's interesting that the silver-tongued wonder has trouble using good English and enunciation when he's not speechifying? "folks are lookin' for" the girls are upstairs "doin' what de do." That I really couldn't believe.

    Folks? Folks? Obama plagiarized that one from Dubya.

    [ Parent ]

    No (none / 0) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:16:44 PM EST
    Because your stubbornness will piss me off.

    I attribute it to your candidate support.

    It is funny how racism was attributed to Hillary's comments in response to a question about LBJ/MLK but an OBVIOUS, and I mean OBVIOUS, sexist remark emits blank stares from the Media, the A-List make bloggers and people like you.

    I am getting pissed off just writing this comment to you.

    [ Parent ]

    i was very very clear, mutliple times (none / 0) (#38)
    by Tano on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:27:12 PM EST
    that the Clintons, in my opinion, do not have a racist bone in their body.

    It was not racism that they were engaged in. They tried to make Obama the black candidate. I wont bore everyone  with my explanation of that, but it was not racism.

    [ Parent ]

    Please leave this thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:29:29 PM EST
    I really can not take another round of apologias for sexism tonight.

    [ Parent ]
    I saw this before, and I am puzzled (none / 0) (#211)
    by slr51 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 09:45:27 AM EST
    .. this 56 yo white woman never even thought "sexist". It amazes me that anyone would.

    The word periodically is the an excellent fit for the nature of the negative attack ads by both sides. Unless you could think of a word that says: just after negative news is made public relative to the one campaign and/or just before another "must win" primary or just after another loss.

    I don't know what word would cover all of that - but periodically works well.

    Pouting and demanding that there be absolutely NO reasonable discussion of the interpretation of words is childish and diminishes your ability to influence. I expect it will only serve to drive away readers who are on the fence and trying to hear both sides, thereby decreasing any potential influence you might have had on their decisions.

    [ Parent ]

    I didn't catch it. . . (none / 0) (#9)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:08:57 PM EST
    when I read it first, but bullet-pointed like that -- wow.

    [ Parent ]
    I am sure that (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:14:31 PM EST
    Tweety, John Aravoss, Josh Marshall and the rest of the male dominated A-List of bloggers will be telling us that Obama is right

    IF one thing has become painfully clear in this campaign, it is that sexism and misogyny of the most overt kind is perfectly acceptable.

    IT is shocking and disappointing.

    Lucky for them I do not get to do pure vents here or the balst force of my critiques would be nuclear sized.

    [ Parent ]

    Darn it! (none / 0) (#40)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:28:17 PM EST
    Could use the entertainment. Big bowl of popcorn, a 12 pack of Coca-Cola and a nuclear blast post.

    :gimmee:

    [ Parent ]

    same (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by Nasarius on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:46:25 AM EST
    My initial reaction was "that's insultingly personal, stupid, and nasty". Frankly, it's revolting enough even without the sexism. Has Hillary said anything close to that about Obama?

    You know, it wouldn't even be so bad if it weren't for the continuing flagrant hypocrisy. *That* more than anything else is what truly bothers me about Obama. He's somehow convinced massive numbers of people that he's some kind of transformative figure, while playing the same old dirty games. Incredible.

    [ Parent ]
    Bloomberg News (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:10:21 PM EST
    brings up another attack Obama can expect, about his ties to a former member of the Weather Underground, William Ayers.  That's one attack I won't support.

    A ridiculous line of attack (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:20:45 PM EST
    Makes Rezko seem positively substance filled.

    [ Parent ]
    If Lee Atwater were alive (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by badger on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:52:36 PM EST
    he could turn Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers into Obama's Willy Horton ("While John McCain was in a North Vietnamese Prison and Obama was in diapers, Obama's friends were declaring war on America and blowing up the Pentagon" - their mugshots are easy to find on the web, and are from the Chicago PD too)

    I'd agree the connection is virtually meaningless (so was Willy Horton), but it's an easy, cheap shot and not that easy to defend.

    I just think the people who believe Obama is rubber and Hillary is glue are deluding themselves.

    [ Parent ]

    Does McCain have your number? (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by blogtopus on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:30:03 AM EST
    You could make a million off that. Or, like Mark Penn, several. :-D

    [ Parent ]
    Totally (none / 0) (#49)
    by blogtopus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:39:49 PM EST
    ... but it will fill 3 months of news cycles in the McCain Media.

    [ Parent ]
    Yep, if the media (none / 0) (#114)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:27:05 AM EST
    can kill Gore's campaign with the "invented the internet" meme, there should be a lot of pseudotraction with Rezko....

    it all falls under my "I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused" attitude.

    [ Parent ]

    Me neither. (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:43:17 PM EST
    But talk about rehab.  The man now teaches in the Education Dept. of Univ. of IL, Chicago campus.

    [ Parent ]
    Amazing (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Steve M on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:25:02 AM EST
    A far leftist, now given safe refuge in academia!  Unheard of.

    [ Parent ]
    Huh (none / 0) (#66)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:51:06 PM EST
    Such a dweeb, does not even know at our age, we are not periodically mad, we are mad all the time. HUH.

    [ Parent ]
    I was thinking the same thing. (none / 0) (#72)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:53:17 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    LOL LOL LOL (none / 0) (#76)
    by andreww on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:54:10 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    And you know why? (none / 0) (#154)
    by echinopsia on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:28:32 AM EST
    Because past menopause, our hormones are like men's were all along.

    [ Parent ]
    Ahhh,,, (none / 0) (#190)
    by kenoshaMarge on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 06:59:11 AM EST
    Now I finally understand why the post-menopausal me seems at such odds with the really nice premenopausal me. Except, periodically of course. Thanks for explaining.

    [ Parent ]
    Aha, I wondered when that (none / 0) (#186)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 04:47:24 AM EST
    would go national from Illinois blogs.  See earlier posts here when I heard it was going to go national.

    It is a stupid attack.  That doesn't matter -- it will make quite a McCain attack ad, as a voice intones the anarchic words of Ayers and Dorn, emblems of the "excesses of the '60s" that they are.

    [ Parent ]

    Have to really wonder (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:12:54 PM EST
    if he cares about women's rights (e.g. to choose) with such a lousy attitude toward women.

    This is my no. 1 concern. (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:12:16 AM EST
    "Present" doesn't paint a clear enough picture for me, despite the explanations.  

    [ Parent ]
    Present (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:22:58 AM EST
    doesn't paint a clear picture of anything he plans to do, in any context.  He spreads his beliefs out so thinly.

    We really don't know anything about this man, pertaining to who he REALLY is.  We only know the fantasy.

    [ Parent ]

    don't worry... (none / 0) (#24)
    by jor on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:21:05 PM EST
    .. hillary already sent out a flier questioning his stance on his right to choose -- event after Planned Parenthood said Obama was 100% behind a woman's right to choose.

    [ Parent ]
    He has a history (none / 0) (#96)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:06:45 AM EST
    of saying one thing, doing another.  So we don't know how he'll behave in the presidency.

    [ Parent ]
    man... (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by andreww on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:32:45 PM EST
    I have to admit, it didn't jump out at me at first.  But after reading it again - j&$%s, he might as well have said she attacks when aunt flo is in town.

    I'd have given him the benefit of the doubt thinking down meant behind.  But periodically.....sort of takes that benefit away.

    HIllary's 60 (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by echinopsia on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:01:57 AM EST
    She is well past the age of PMS. Not that that is any excuse - next thing you know it'll be "mood swings."

    [ Parent ]
    or (none / 0) (#109)
    by reynwrap582 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:23:42 AM EST
    "hot flashes"

    [ Parent ]
    I like this nice quote in the Baltimore Sun. (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:46:46 PM EST
    Then, the always confident senator, couldn't help but offer himself some more praise: "It's true. I give a good speech. What can I do? Nothing wrong with that," he said.

    I've read about how his dad had a huge ego according to his classmates and I'm beginning to thing Obama took after him.

    Reminds me of Mitt Romney saying (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:49:27 PM EST
    how pleased he was at having the opportunity to vote for himself.

    [ Parent ]
    Everyone running (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by andreww on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:49:39 PM EST
    or who has ever run for President has a huge ego.  This is a given.

    [ Parent ]
    Yup (none / 0) (#81)
    by blogtopus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:57:23 PM EST
    I'm sure the GOP will have this in their list:

    Hillary: "Ambitious"
    or Obama: "Articulate"
    ----------
    McCain: "Hero"

    What was that Alien vs Predator slogan? Whoever wins, we lose.

    [ Parent ]

    Well (none / 0) (#62)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:48:48 PM EST
    I think he has a point though.

    [ Parent ]
    I know, he gives a terrfic speech. I just like (none / 0) (#91)
    by Teresa on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:02:36 AM EST
    people to at least pretend to have a little modesty. Like andreww says below, anyone running for President has a decent sized ego.

    [ Parent ]
    Huge Ego a necessity (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by kenoshaMarge on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 07:03:55 AM EST
    But isn't patting oneself on the back so arrogantly just a little tacky? Or is it just that at this point I dislike the man so much I can't be fair anymore? Probably.

    This latest comment, that does seem overtly sexist to me combined with the one just recently about Hillary's "claws" coming out just screams misogyny to me. And I make no apologies for disliking that!

    [ Parent ]

    Video Link to "Feeling Down" Comment (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by diplomatic on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:26:25 AM EST
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qNpeGPdhEw

    This would make a good update... It's a very clear video that comes across just as bad as you'd imagine from the quoted text.

    ugh. (none / 0) (#116)
    by mindfulmission on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:28:27 AM EST
    Yea - that is not good.  At all.

    [ Parent ]
    Reminds me of "Likeable Enough" (none / 0) (#118)
    by diplomatic on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:29:51 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Darn! (none / 0) (#166)
    by echinopsia on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:50:45 AM EST
    I forgot that one. Add it to my list upthread.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh wow, that was (none / 0) (#122)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:36:19 AM EST
    on Olbermann?  I missed that (cuz I don't watch Olbermann anymore <sigh>).

    Does anyone know if they turned it into an "Obama, great guy? or greatEST guy?" spiel?

    Or did they talk about what he really said.

    [ Parent ]

    I don't get this (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:33:29 AM EST
    I guess I'm just an unrepentant sexist because I don't see these comments as being sexist at all.  I consider them.

    1.  Patronizing
    2.  Condescending
    3.  Flippant

    Why is it that every time that Obama makes any sort of personal jab, it is sexist?  This was a political jab.  It was vetted by his team.  It was snarky but I find it extremely hard to believe that they were trying to be sexist.

    I'm so tired of the secret code stuff.  I remember a few years ago some politician used the word niggardly. It took several days for some people to realize that the word niggardly was unrelated to the racial slur.

    If Norah O'Donnell can see it... (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by diplomatic on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:48:58 AM EST
    you know there's something there, there.

    watch the video and trust the women on this one.

    [ Parent ]

    It plays on the old meme (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:52:46 AM EST
    that a woman can't be president because she might be on the r?? and push the nuke button.

    Slightly different words, same meaning.

    [ Parent ]

    And who is he trying to (none / 0) (#199)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 09:11:44 AM EST
    convey this message to?  

    As I said to begin, the comment was patronizing and perhaps condescending.  That doesn't make it sexist.  If he becomes the nominee you can be certain he will suggest that McCain is too emotional to be trusted with the keys to the nukes.

    This isn't paddycake.  It's politics.  And right now it seems that a large number of Clinton supporters want to talk about being fair and nice and that just isn't how the game is played.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, you are. (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by echinopsia on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:55:54 AM EST
    Seek enlightenment. I suggest a women's studies course at your local community college.

    You will be amazed. And you will be a better person afterwards.

    [ Parent ]

    Right (none / 0) (#192)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 07:34:58 AM EST
    That's what I need.  A class to tell me how to act.

    It's funny how in 40 years of living I have never once been called a sexist.  Not by my friends, co-workers, or girlfriends.  

    Thanks for telling me I would be a better person by taking a women's studies class.  Clearly your knowledge of me as a person helps you to make that claim.

    When I first heard this comment I thought it was just a zinger in response to a petty TV ad.  Now I realize that he was secretly being sexist.  Because the way for him to neutralize support for Hillary is clearly to be sexist.  No way her support would react negatively to sexism.

    It amazes how people can find outrage in so many minor issues in life.  Just like accusations of racism by the Clinton is silly outrage, so is this.

    [ Parent ]

    Heh (none / 0) (#203)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 09:25:08 AM EST
    What a comment.

    [ Parent ]
    Have you ever heard or sd. to (none / 0) (#125)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:41:22 AM EST
    a male he was "down" periodically, and thus reacted in a certain way?  

    [ Parent ]
    actually, it is part of (none / 0) (#136)
    by Tano on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:54:58 AM EST
    his standard speech to refer to his campaign being up, then being down (the same message when we are...). Seems perfectly understandable that, when referring to her camapign, he would say, when she is down...she attacks. And yes, given the dynamics of this race, it has happened periodically.

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    [ Parent ]

    you know, Michelle Obama stated (none / 0) (#137)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:57:06 AM EST
    she didn't care for HRC's "tone."  I'm having the same problem with yours.  

    [ Parent ]
    you comparing me to Hillary now? (none / 0) (#138)
    by Tano on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:58:24 AM EST
    :)

    [ Parent ]
    We know Hillary (none / 0) (#142)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:00:22 AM EST
    and Tano, you are no Hillary in this incarnation and possibly the next 5-10, so keep working on enlightenment.

    [ Parent ]
    I wrote three responses to him (none / 0) (#141)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:59:16 AM EST
    and deleted...thanks for responding to him.

    [ Parent ]
    Me too (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by katiebird on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:05:05 AM EST
    I also erased several replies

    After seeing the video, it's clear that Obama was speaking very deliberately.  He knew what he was saying.

    [ Parent ]

    It is a total waste of time, but (none / 0) (#143)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:01:09 AM EST
    I am really pissed at present.

    [ Parent ]
    The League Of Women Voters Came Down (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by MO Blue on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:02:46 AM EST
    hard on Obama changing his tune on public financing.

    Gave him chapter and verse on how what he is saying NOW is not what he committed to in the past.

    Fainting spells (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:05:36 AM EST
    I don't know if you'all have seen this, but I was over at NoQuarter.net and it pointed me toward the following web site....apparently people near the front row at Obama rallies tend to faint.  I'm linking you to a Dori Munson page.  He gives the location where you can find the fainting spells.....

    Link

    I report, you decide.

    Yes I've been hearing about that (none / 0) (#152)
    by diplomatic on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:22:14 AM EST
    I watched all those videos and it started to remind me of one of those televangelists...

    Hard to prove that it's on purpose.  People do faint at rallies (for any candidate) and maybe Obama is just very predictable in how he responds and grandstands in those situations.

    [ Parent ]

    Always seems to be (none / 0) (#157)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:40:45 AM EST
    right there kind of in the front few rows of his 18,000 person rallies.

    Guess it's just a coincidence. ;-)

    [ Parent ]

    But he says (none / 0) (#160)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:43:46 AM EST
    the exact same things...

    [ Parent ]
    Ahhh (none / 0) (#159)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:42:50 AM EST
    This is really creepy. What in the heavens name? I tell you he really scares me. From Jesus Christ Superstar
    I don't know how to love him. What to do, how to move him. I've been changed, yes really changed. In these past few days, when I've seen myself, I seem like someone else. I don't know how to take this. I don't see why he moves me. He's a man. He's just a man. And I've had so many men before, In very many ways, He's just one more. Should I bring him down? Should I scream and shout? Should I speak of love, Let my feelings out? I never thought I'd come to this. What's it all about? Don't you think it's rather funny, I should be in this position. I'm the one who's always been So calm, so cool, no lover's fool, Running every show. He scares me so. I never thought I'd come to this. What's it all about?


    [ Parent ]
    Now I'm getting worried about you! (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:49:42 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    But he scares me so... (none / 0) (#171)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:58:31 AM EST
    now that really says it. I wish I could do a video of his speech spliced to the old movie: JC Superstar. Thanks for the concern. Will be going to Germany for 3 weeks so I will miss the TL, will just have to read at other time zone.

    [ Parent ]
    Hey, if I could find a cheap internet (none / 0) (#173)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 02:00:52 AM EST
    cafe in Dublin whilst doing my motherly duty, I expect you to follow suit!

    [ Parent ]
    I love Dublin (none / 0) (#175)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 02:07:19 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Me too. (none / 0) (#176)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 02:08:37 AM EST
    Not exactly a hardship to visit an adult daughter there.

    [ Parent ]
    feelings (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by CathyinLa on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:52:18 AM EST
    Nothing more than feelings whoa oh oh feeel ings.

    He can't say it's about being 'down' in the polls, not when he blames it on her feelings.

    I wish she could confront him directly on this in one of the debates, that there is this disconnect about his being relentlessly positive while portraying her so dismissively as part of the past, where a polarizing woman who lashes out when she's feeling down, periodically, whose husband's administration should be compared with Richard Nixon namely when speaking of inconsequential presidents in interviews about the party of ideas republicans.

    I didn't start disliking Obama until he started this.

    No one has ever spoken out against about Jesse Jackson Jr.'s remarks about "Mrs. Clinton's"
    tears not being for things that matter like Katrina but just another one of those woman thangs, her appearance.  Which, of course, was not what made her choke up at all.

    Obama supporters had the most ridiculous list of non-offensive things, right there with the legitimate offenses as to make them seem mentally ill.  Like Hillary said in that choke up moment, "I just don't want us to go backwards."  Like this is the same kind of "backwards" Trent Lott had in mind when he praised Strom Thurmond.  It's likely that Hillary in New Hampshire in that moment and even now believed and believes that only she can beat the Republicans , that's who she doesn't want taking us "backwards."  

    If we compilled a list of the sexist thing said by surrogates, the candidate the media and on and on, I think we'd easily have a similar list in size and breath that the Obama supporters had on the wretched Clinton campaign.

    I've been watching politics a long time and I have never seen this kind of protective instinct about a candidate to the point that all sense of what's fair or normal and perfectly legitimate in campaigns is a new fangled gadget to them.  Can't question a candidate of hope?  Oh no, can't do it.

    Andrea Mitchell and O'Donnell had a lot to say (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Grey on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 06:55:25 AM EST
    AP: Obama on Hillary: "I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she's feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal," he told reporters." Here's the video. Sexist? Very, says Lambert at Corrente Wire.

    Andrea Mitchell and Norah O'Donnell said far more than I ever thought they'd say, which is why I backed up my DVR and transcribed it.

    Norah O'Donnell: "He said, 'I understand when she's down (emphasis hers), that she makes these kinds of attacks. It's getting a little personal."

    Andrea Mitchell: "It's getting a little personal and, very frankly, you know how deeply we interpreted every comment to look for some sort of racial motivation before South Carolina. A lot of people said it was there. But, you know, when you start describing a female (emphasis hers) candidate as being "down" and "striking back." I don't know, that's a little edgy, don't you think?"

    Norah O'Donnell: "Yeah. And I think there's gonna be a lot more comments about that."

    Down and claws and likeable enough LOL (none / 0) (#194)
    by Salt on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 08:43:37 AM EST
    ..what I find amazing is that Dems or maybe Obama followers believe he will be able to rally the Dems to him later if he became the nominee, it wont happen many will peel off for many reason.  I am hoping Hillary with this new campaign leadership sweeps as many of the remaining States as she can so Dems dont loose the WH in 08.  A back room full of White Males like Gore and Black Males like Clyburn deciding for an Obama nominee is a no brainier kiss the biggest demographic in the Party at least some large chunk of it goodbye.  And if McCain is smart enough to put his own first on the ticket a moderate from the NE a former Governor say who is no Bush groupies, that will be a Powerful draw, after all the offense heap on women during this Primary.  And where are the Women those not of color that are in the DNC Leadership are there any is that maybe the problem? Look we have ballots out in my State and one of my women friends yesterday voted for other than the Party endorsed white male and for the unendorsed women.  Her choice of course, maybe it's the right thing to pull people back to the center split completely to rebalance the respect of the individual demographics, and see if you can rejoin together, or split quietly in the ballot both.

    I believe Clyburn spoke on this yesterday he is alarmed that it is pitting a black progressive coalition against the majority of the remaining base who believe them to be unfairly marginalized and that they will retaliate against black and male candidates.  I believe he is correct in his assessment from what I am hearing its personal now for many.

    I believe Clyburn spoke on this yesterday he is alarmed it is now perceived that the identity groups a black progressive coalition is now pitted against the majority of the remaining base who believe themselves to have been unfairly marginalized and that they will retaliate against black and male candidates.  I believe he is correct in his assessment.

    [ Parent ]

    Huh? (none / 0) (#198)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 09:08:16 AM EST
    And where are the Women those not of color that are in the DNC Leadership are there any is that maybe the problem?

    So you specifically want white women in the DNC leadership?  Black women aren't good enough?  

    [ Parent ]

    Yes specifically (none / 0) (#206)
    by Salt on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 09:35:23 AM EST
    one expects to see diversity in Political Leadership that reflects the base, white women are the largest demographic the absence of someone who looks like them, represents their intrest also, is surprising for a Party that touts a big tent.  

    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 0) (#209)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 09:42:13 AM EST
    according to the DNC website Kathleen Sebelius is the chairwoman of the Democratic Governors Association and a key organizer for the DNC.  

    Unfortunately for you, she supports Barack Obama.  

    [ Parent ]

    Look (none / 0) (#212)
    by Salt on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 09:49:24 AM EST
    shes allowed to have poor judgment her father was a great beloved governor for Ohio, well a least there is one out of how many do you know?

    [ Parent ]
    How many that I know what? (none / 0) (#213)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 09:54:38 AM EST
    I don't understand your question.  Women that support Barack Obama?  

    [ Parent ]
    Al Gore and John Edwards (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 09:12:57 AM EST
    awaiting to mediate brings a smile to my face.  I'd really rather have either one of them as my candidate but I must settle for them being my mediator ;)  Oh Well!

    Let Hillary send him an equal missive (none / 0) (#5)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:02:08 PM EST
    about men with small...well, you get my drift. ;)

    They'll come back with a "Femi-Nazi" comeback, but there's no pleasure than to see them nervously cross their legs when she shows up. :evil grin:

    Sometimes with men you have to speak a language that's universally understood. For where ever there's capital B's, there's guys who were docked limping without a third leg.

    :sssss:

    Is a mailer not an ad? (none / 0) (#6)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:02:16 PM EST
    Hollering at Republicans and engaging in petty partisan politics didn't help health care get done," he said. "The American people don't want to play the same games. They don't want the cheap shots. They don't want the negative ads. What they are looking for are solutions and bringing people together."

    As an accountant at a decent-sized retailer in the past, mailers were a big part of our advertising budget.

    He can come across as so arrogant sometimes.

    have y'all seen Hillary's latest (none / 0) (#20)
    by Tano on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:18:05 PM EST
    attack ad in Wisconsin?

    Claims Obama wants to cut SS benefits and raise retirement age?!?!?!

    Claims her health insurance "covers" everyone while his leaves out 15 million - and no, she does not explain that those last 15 million are covered by being forced to be covered, under penalty of law.

    Claims he is using "false attack ads" when he responded to her call for debates by pointing out that they had 18 debates already.

    ...gettin' ugly out there...

    After that comment form Obama (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:20:04 PM EST
    the LAST thing I want to hear from Obama supporters is complaints about the "tone" of the campaign.

    [ Parent ]
    uh... (2.00 / 1) (#27)
    by jor on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:22:20 PM EST
    ... hillary is the one attacking. She almost always attacks first. Seriously you guys are whiners.

    So much for hillary being vetted and being able to stand up to the right-wing-noise machine. IF you are going to get worked up over this, god pray what happens when the repubs come after her.

    [ Parent ]

    Seiously (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:23:34 PM EST
    Your condoning of that obvious sexist remark tells me all I need to  know.

    I would rather not hear from you in repsonse to me anymore tonight.

    I am seeing red right now.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh c'mon. (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by ajain on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:36:09 PM EST
    Please. Dont kid yourself. Barack and Michelle Obama have been calling Hillary "divisive" and "polarizing" - two tags that republicans put on her to bring her down, since like last august or something.
    www.attacktimeline.com
    All the candidates have been attacking her since god knows when. So now that she is fighting back, somehow she is the one who is attacking first. What nonsense.

    [ Parent ]
    so I do not think it is fair to not allow hi to respond to your comment.

    If you are still around Tano, please return. I am calmer now.

    [ Parent ]

    jor I mean (none / 0) (#74)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:53:59 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    thank you BTD (none / 0) (#100)
    by Tano on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:11:48 AM EST
    I am very sorry to have made you upset. I did not mean my comments in a trollish manner. They were a sincere reaction. I take racism and sexism very seriously, which is why I defend the Clintons on the racism charge, while trying to explain at length what I feel are legitimate criticisms. I would do the same for sexism, or sexual stereotyping. I just honestly felt that these instances were simply the use of everyday words - that all of us use all the time, and not in the least sexist.

    Anyway, as to ads. My objection, when posting the comment about the ad, was not to its negtivity per se. But to the dishonest characterizations. We all know, and have argued endlessly, about Obama's thoughts on SS. He proposed to raise the tax cap. He did not propose the things Hillary said.

    And I find it disingenuous at best to claim her health insurance covers everyone, as opposed to his, when the completeness of the coverage is arrived at through governmental coercion.

    [ Parent ]

    Not trying to be snarky or anything (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by blogtopus on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:24:19 AM EST
    But what are your feelings on Social Security and Medicare?

    Yeah, it's a moldy argument, but we have a lot of forced programs on us right now, and I think Healthcare is such an important aspect of a healthy economic climate (no pun intended) that it behooves the government to enact it, especially with the coming downturn. My 2 cents.

    Sorry if this strays a bit off topic.

    [ Parent ]

    There Is No Crisis (5.00 / 3) (#130)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:47:41 AM EST
    Next to crime issues, Social Security is one of my most important issues, since I'm less than a decade off from reaching that age. I want Al Gore's lockbox. I've been paying in since I was 16 years old and I want my benefits. I earned them.

    There is no crisis. We can pay the benefits. Obama last year made comments feeding into the "crisis" scenario of the Republicans. It's been a black mark against him for me.

    For links, here's a start. Check out the old Move On ad (pdf) explaining there is no crisis.

    Obama has been a disappointment on social security. Hillary has been firm. There is no crisis.

    [ Parent ]

    i love 'em (none / 0) (#120)
    by Tano on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 12:30:06 AM EST
    I would prefer a single payer system.

    I do not really spend much time on the mandates issue except for the fact that the Clinton people are always raising it, and making it out to be such a drastic difference.

    As Obama has said, maybe some day, for the efficiency of the system, mandates may be the way to go. Wouldnt bother me - I would certainly buy affordable insurance if it were available.

    My issue is with the politics of it. I think it makes little sense to roll out mandates when the affordable insurance is still only a promise. It will make th