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The Double Standard

Ezra Klein writes:
Barack Obama did not step into the Senate and seek leadership in the anti-war movement. When Elizabeth Edwards said Obama's Senate record showed "a relatively complacent and go-along Senator," she wasn't necessarily wrong. But . . . [i]'s a "Meet the Press" attack. The issue isn't the issue -- about which Obama was correct -- it's his consistency on the issue. Barack Obama was right on Iraq, and Hillary Clinton was wrong. Obama could have made a couple more speeches, but there really wasn't much he could do to divert the course of the war as a lone Senator. . . . Clinton, who routinely promises to end the war once in office, [could have] exercised political leadership in the Senate, using either her media power or parliamentary pull to sustain a brave stand against the conflict. Instead, she has spoken of her desire to end it and, in reality, gone along with the cowed, ineffectual approach of the Senate Democrats: Register opposition, vote against bills, eventually pass spending measures that continue the war.
What a classic case of double standards. You could write the word OBAMA for Clinton and the sentences apply EXACTLY. THAT is the point of the critique. Ezra provides a classic double standard here that would be hard to top.

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    I think his point is that Clinton had a LOT more (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Geekesque on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 10:50:47 PM EST
    clout inside the party and in the media than did Obama.

    Indeed, Obama's clout has come to appear in the same order of magnitude as hers because he's running for President.  Without that candidacy, he would be a potential star, but not one who could move members within the caucus.

    Obama Enjoyed A Great Deal Of Attention From (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:12:40 PM EST
    the media 04 - 06 before he became a presidential candidate. Don't remember him using it as a bully pulpit to end the occupation.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#10)
    by Jgarza on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:15:57 PM EST
    seeing as how he gets hammered now if he says anything that can be construed as attacking fellow Democrats, i doubt it would have been looked kindly upon if he had criticized our presidential candidate in 2004.

    That was one of her arguments, that it was a political consideration not to speak up.  Well I'm sorry but getting JFK elected is the kind of political consideration i want him and other dems to make.

    Parent

    Hammered by who? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:24:22 PM EST
    You surely can notbe referring to THIS SITE.

    Parent
    Where Are The Media Quotes or Passionate Speeches (none / 0) (#17)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:24:36 PM EST
    against the occupation in 05 and 06. The election was over then and would not have impacted our 04 presidential candidate.

    Parent
    Just What I Thought - Crickets n/t (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:39:33 PM EST
    In 2005 and 2006? (none / 0) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 10:59:48 PM EST
    BS.

    And what has Obama done as a Presidential candidate? I recall a diary by someone on the subject. Name started witha G and ended with an E.

    Double standards.

    BTW, who had more clout, Obama or Dodd?


    Parent

    Good point on Dodd (none / 0) (#6)
    by scalibur on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:08:06 PM EST
    although you are comparing media clout to legislative clout. Dodd won out against Reid with the latter, and with his years in the Senate most certainly possesses more than Obama.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:25:03 PM EST
    There is no evidence at all that that is so.

    Indeed Dodd's hold was IGNORED.

    Parent

    Dodd, by a mile. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Geekesque on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:58:05 AM EST
    Seniority, not media coverage, matters in the Senate.

    Parent
    You mean hasn't been a media star (none / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:00:07 PM EST
    for longer than the Democrats have controlled Congress?

    Parent
    John Kerry selects Barck Obama (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:33:09 PM EST
    to deliver keynote speech at Dem. convention=Barack Obama is now a media star, IMO.

    Parent
    The basic fact remains (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Jgarza on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:11:27 PM EST
    if the Clintons had made speeches against the Iraq war, and she had voted against authorization, which is what Obama did (although he was not in senate so couldn't vote).  A lot more Dems would have voted against it, maybe enough to stop it.  

    AS far has his current votes, she is criticizing him for having a record similar to hers. The quote about him saying he agreed with George Bush is misleading.

    How is that a double standard?  I think if her criticism is accepted it is a double standard.  BY her definition she has supported the war till this year.  That is troublesome

    I think if you follow her rational only Kucinich can criticize her on Iraq, because he is the only one purely anti war enough.

    Obama's Senate Votes Are Exactly The Same As (none / 0) (#13)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:19:26 PM EST
    Clinton's on Iraq. Obama said he was against it in 02 but he has by his votes supported the war until this year.

    Obama is presenting himself as the anti-war candidate when he never voted against the occupation until he became a presidential candidate.

    Parent

    Many Democrats (none / 0) (#15)
    by Jgarza on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:23:45 PM EST
    that voted against the war, have since funded it.  I don't think that diminishes initial opposition to the war.

    Asking people to cut of funding to the military while it is in combat, is a big deal, that is why it was so important to exercise caution before authorizing it.

    Parent

    Of course it diminishes it (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:26:26 PM EST
    And Many Who Voted Against The War (none / 0) (#25)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:28:36 PM EST
    have had the courage and the consistency to vote against funding time after time. They are anti-war Dems. IMO Obama is not.

    Parent
    And many who voted for it (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:30:07 PM EST
    came to oppose it and MEAN it by voting against funding - see Dodd, Chris.

    Parent
    Good Point (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:34:27 PM EST
    Dodd showed real leadership. He spoke out against it and voted against it. His actions on FISA were also commendable.

    Leadership was lacking by both Clinton and Obama IMO.

    Parent

    HRC made a great speech at the (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:37:09 PM EST
    Petraeus hrgs., but then she voted for further funding w/o withdrawal date.  

    Parent
    Think HRC Has Been Horrible On Iraq (none / 0) (#33)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:45:39 PM EST
    but Obama has been just as bad since becoming a Senator. He has moved in lockstep with her on Iraq. That is the whole point IMO.

    Parent
    I know. Squandered opportunities. (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:56:48 PM EST
    Who sd. I want either one of them to represent me?

    Parent
    You're so full of it (none / 0) (#37)
    by joejoejoe on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:59:25 PM EST
    Show us one vote where Dodd voted differently than Obama on Iraq. You can't. Yet to you, Dodd is a leader and Obama is AWOL.

    Parent
    because Dodd LED on it (none / 0) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:02:26 AM EST
    and Obana followed.

    You are really unbelievable when it comes to Obama.

    This is freaking documented right here at this freaking site.

    You are a piec eof work when it comes to Obama.

    Kool aid drinker.

    Parent

    You admit there is zero difference in the votes (none / 0) (#41)
    by joejoejoe on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:09:02 AM EST
    I swear you're like an old baseball manager who like ballplayers who are "gritty" and have "guts". You just 'know' it even it if it doesn't show up in the boxscore.

    Chris Dodd led on FISA.

    On Iraq he was a bunch of sound and fury signifying nothing.

    Parent

    The reason he could only speak (none / 0) (#42)
    by andgarden on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:11:02 AM EST
    was because he was undermined by other Democrats--especially Obama, who claimed that cutting off funding would endanger the troops.

    Parent
    And Obama was not even (none / 0) (#46)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 06:50:13 AM EST
    sound and certainly not fury.

    Parent
    Obama's strategy was clearly different (none / 0) (#39)
    by andgarden on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:03:13 AM EST
    and worse. Dodd wanted to confront Bush in the spring, and Obama wanted to wait until magical September.

    Some of us were paying attention.

    Parent

    Started to read what Ezra sd. and (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by oculus on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:26:21 PM EST
    was getting really angry, but nevermind, that was your point.

    It is an absurd post (none / 0) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:27:48 PM EST
    Apples and oranges, maybe? (none / 0) (#4)
    by scalibur on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:01:32 PM EST
    Wouldn't you have to assume that the two senators both possessed roughly equivalent national stature/political capital at the time?

    Even presently, I think that would be difficult to argue.

    Obama's far weaker stature doesn't excuse him for not taking a more principled stand. But I don't believe it's unfair or a double standard for Ezra to have expected more out of Clinton, whose enhanced capital (he argues) would have given her a much greater chance of succeeding.

    Nevermind (none / 0) (#5)
    by scalibur on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:02:55 PM EST
    I see the subject has been broached already.

    Parent
    Ezra's main (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jgarza on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:13:19 PM EST
    argument is that if she had done what Obama did, it might have stopped the war.

    Parent
    If that is his point (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:25:47 PM EST
    he is full of it.

    It passed 77-23.

    Parent

    I do not accept that premise at all (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:23:20 PM EST
    especially in 2007.

    Parent
    Bottom line is (none / 0) (#11)
    by athyrio on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:16:16 PM EST
    She is the only one that can beat McCain...So I will suck it up and vote for a winner so we can get the white house back...Nothing else matters at this point considering all that we would lose otherwise, like supreme court nominations....

    what evidence do you have of that? (none / 0) (#12)
    by Jgarza on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:17:52 PM EST
    She is the only one that can beat McCain...


    Parent
    I'm not sure she can beat McCain. (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:25:44 PM EST
    How do you undermine a war hero on issues of war?

    Parent
    Obama Will Have The Same Problem With McCain (none / 0) (#35)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:55:22 PM EST
    and will definitely be at a disadvantage when it comes to experience. I think that Clinton (real or not) is perceived by the general public as much more experienced than Obama.

    BTW I'm not a Clinton supporter or an Obama supporter. I'm back to definitely undecided.

    Parent

    Is that comparable to a (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:04:14 AM EST
    definite atheist?

    Parent
    Probably (none / 0) (#43)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:30:36 AM EST
    I am definitely a political non-believer right about now. IMO this last year has been a real disappointment and neither of our front runners have done anything to change that.;

    Parent
    I'm "on the verge" of checking out (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 12:34:35 AM EST
    of blog world.  Just read Bob Johnon's "recommended" diary at DK.  

    Parent
    Ask Karl Rove (none / 0) (#47)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 07:51:03 AM EST
    all of the polls to date nationally show it (none / 0) (#23)
    by athyrio on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:26:58 PM EST


    that is not accurate (none / 0) (#34)
    by Jgarza on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:51:59 PM EST
    here is the real clear politics average

    RCP Average 12/12 - 01/10-JM48.3 HC44.3 und. 9.7    McCain +4.0

    compare that to BO average:

    RCP Average 12/12 to 01/10- JM 45.0% BO 45.3%    Obama +0.3%

    I think these polls are meaningless, I think his best electability argument would be that Obama has proved he appeals to Ind.

    Parent

    Obama had a chance to change DC (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:29:02 PM EST
    He did not.

    Well, if one plans to run as (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:38:04 PM EST
    an outsider, best to keep a low profile.

    Parent
    Didn't need leadership from either, (none / 0) (#45)
    by Ben Masel on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:14:19 AM EST
    that was already coming from Feingold. He needed backup.

    Yup, zero leadership from either one of them (none / 0) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:38:41 AM EST
    after we were in Iraq!  And that's that end of story.  Not very promisingly presidential in either case.

    Double Standard (none / 0) (#49)
    by auntmo on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:44:09 AM EST
    Except  for  the  2002  vote,  Obama's  votes   do  not  differ  from  Clinton's   at  all.    In  fact,  in  2004,  Obama  said  his  stand  on  Iraq   was  the  same  as  George  Bush's.  

    But  here's  the  tipping point  for  me:  

    Hillary Clinton   supported  and  donated  to  the  progressive   candidate  Ned  Lamont  in  Connecticut   against  warmonger  Lieberman in  2006.  

    Obama   supported  Lieberman,   and   campaigned  for  him.    Such a   choice  speaks  volumes  about his   so-called  "anti-war"  stance,  eh?  

    If I am not mistaken (none / 0) (#50)
    by Saul on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:52:19 AM EST
    correct me if I am wrong, but when congress voted for the war wasn't that a midterm election year for congress?  Since Bush and his neocons took advantage  of 9-11 to implement their old plan to invade Iraq, using the highly public lynch mob mentality that permeated the air at the time,and did not that make all those who were running for congress almost impossible for them to vote against the invasion of Iraq for fear of not being elected and looking unpartriotic even if they had strong convictions not to vote for it? Would the vote have been different if it were not an election year?