Serious Apple Blues Time

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 07:17:00 AM EST
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(Written Sunday night.) What a lousy day. Last night, out of nowhere, my Powerbook G4 just went and died. No matter how many times I tried to boot it up, I never got past the gray screen with the Apple logo. I spent most of the night on Apple's website, doing all the things they said, pressing control-option this and command-option that, resetting things called PRAM and PNU, all to no avail.

Today I called the local Apple Store that has a "Genius Bar" and got a 3:45 pm appointment. It was 100 degrees outside, but off to the mall I went. The geniuses hooked it up to their equipment and confirmed the hard drive failed and the data can't be read.

For $150, they would remove the hard drive so I could take it to a data recovery specialist who would charge hundreds more to try and recover stuff. For $400, I could get a new hard drive put in, but my data would be lost.

To make things worse, it turns out that even if I buy a MacBook or MacBook Pro as a replacement, I won't be able to transfer my music and video(other than that purchased from the iTunes store) to the new computer. Apple licensing prohibits it. iTunes only allows the downloading of music from iTunes on your computer to iPod, not from iPod to iTunes.

This totally sucks.

More...

I'm primarily a PC user. But when I got the Powerbook three years ago, I bought a ton of applications for it, a 20 23" Apple monitor, external speakers, keyboard, mouse, the whole 9 yards. A TalkLeft reader got me the i-Sight camera. My iPod and camcorder are set for the Mac. So I've got a pretty big investment in it.

Aside from the iPod problem, which I'll come back to, the biggest loss for me is use of the 20" Apple monitor I bought. It's awesome. I have it set up on the kitchen counter. It's my first stop when I walk in the door from work and the first place I go after getting up in the morning. I use it constantly, whether I'm waiting for the coffee to brew, cooking, watching tv, on the phone or just killing time.

If I don't get a new Mac, I may as well throw the monitor away with the failed Powerbook, since it won't work with the PCs I have (no mini-dvi or dvi ports on them.)

If I do get a new Mac, it's $1300 for the Macbook. And I'm not positive I can get the music from my iPod onto its iTunes library despite Apple's policy. The Apple geniuses said they've heard people have figured out how to do it but they're not allowed to give out their names out or tell how they did it.

My first question is: Have any of you used any of the programs that claim to be able to copy music from your iPod to a new computer? Do they work? Is it hard? And which one do you recommend?

What lousy timing. With the expense of going to Yearly Kos next week, I really can't afford a new computer now.

I'm so mad at my Powerbook I feel like taking everything Apple in my house and throwing it in the dumpster outside. But I need to get the music and video on my iPod back onto a computer or disk drive somehow so if the iPod fails, as I'm sure it will someday, my entire library won't be gone forever. The bottom line is, I need a new Mac.

If any of you reading would like to buy me a Macbook, I've put it on my Amazon Wishlist.

Cash is also welcome.

If you'd rather donate anonymously, please use Amazon here.

[I'll be bumping this up to the top tomorrow.]

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Serious Apple Blues Time | 71 comments (71 topical)

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Itunes/Apple support will probably (5.00 / 2) (#1)
by andgarden on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:24:05 PM EST

give you one chance to to re-download all of your purchased music. You should contact them about that. Thereafter, BACKUP.

It sucks when a HD failure happens, but you should know that, in the lifetime of your computer, it is a virtual certainty, especially with a laptop.

As to your non-purchased music (none / 0) (#2)
by andgarden on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:26:59 PM EST

go read this!

[ Parent ]

It sounds hopeless (none / 0) (#5)
by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:37:01 PM EST

I read it and it just confirms what I wrote. It mentions third party applications, and I've found a few on google, but I don't know if they really work.

So if any of you have had success(or failure) with them, please let me know.

[ Parent ]

: I've never used any (none / 0) (#9)
by andgarden on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:46:26 PM EST

Your main complication is going to be that the ipod is Mac formatted.
BTW: no reason to buy a new computer just because of a HD crash. Apple, or a 3rd party like iresq, should be able to get you back and running with a new disk in no time. (Minus your files. . .)

[ Parent ]
: don't panic!! (none / 0) (#43)
by selise on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 05:46:28 AM EST

if all you've had is a HD failure, don't panic!
first, you don't need a new macbook, just get a new HD put in. and watch the S.M.A.R.T. status!
second, do consider paying the extra to get the data from your old HD. don't destroy it until you are satisfied with your recovery.
and in the future, start doing backups! it doesn't matter if you use pcs or macs - do regular backups! an ipod is NOT a backup!!!
for your backups need three things:
an extra HD (here's a 2.5in hd) an enclosure and backup software (i use superduper)
oh, and apple care is worth the money.

[ Parent ]
: Senuti (none / 0) (#51)
by brklyngrl on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 09:40:29 AM EST

I used it to get the music off my ipod when I switched from Windows to Mac a few months ago. It was super-easy to use, worked perfectly, and hasn't caused any problems at all for me since then.

[ Parent ]

I just assumed (none / 0) (#3)
by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:30:58 PM EST

the iPod was the backup. Everything else on the Powerbook like photos and documents are also on my PC's or on TalkLeft's server. And I never used the Powerbook for work. But of course, you're right, backing up is essential.

[ Parent ]

: A crash course (none / 0) (#4)
by andgarden on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:36:21 PM EST

Your ipod is even more vulnerable than your PowerBook, unless it's a flash-based model (nano).
Would you take your PowerBook with you to the gym and shake it around as you use the treadmill? It uses the same hard drive as what you'd find in an ipod.

[ Parent ]

How many of us would accept (none / 0) (#61)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:44:05 PM EST

that kind of instability in our car's engine? Our TV? Our microwave?

Hopefully sooner, rather than later, when the industry matures more, competition among soft and hardware manufacturers will have to compete more based on quality of product.

Sorry to hear of your troubles, J.

[ Parent ]

Poor Analogy (none / 0) (#62)
by squeaky on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:53:05 PM EST

HD failure is a non issue or at the most a minor irritation, if one has a bootable backup (Clone) on an external (or internal for desktop) HD, that is up to date mirror of the failed drive.

Given that situation, which is not Jeralyn's, you do not even have to repair the dead HD but can run the laptop from the external HD. One does have to get another HD external drive though to create another clone/backup.

No lost time involved, or lost data with that method. Most who have lost a drive learn the lesson the hard way, (me included)

[ Parent ]

Sigh. And most people who drove a car - (none / 0) (#64)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 02:14:50 PM EST

back in the day - carried with them tools, parts, etc., that they used to fix the car when it, inevitably, broke down. Likewise, you (wisely) "carry" a spare HD.

Personally, I hope that sooner, rather than later, soft and hardware manufacturers will have to compete more based on quality of product.

Again, sorry to hear of your troubles, J.

[ Parent ]

: Whatever.... (none / 0) (#67)
by squeaky on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 02:20:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]

This (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by Edger on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:40:35 PM EST

is cheaper than "If I do get a new Mac, it's $1300 for the Macbook"

No?

If it was NOT a head crash, but just something like a burned out drive motor in the hard drive, then all of your data is recoverable. If it was a head crash the probably a good part, if not most, of your data is still recoverable, I think.

Mike Ditto might have some ideas too.

Not cheaper (none / 0) (#8)
by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:46:07 PM EST

Because data recovery, when they can do it, runs around $1000 or more. The new hard drive cost doesn't include the cost of data recovery.

They said if the data was readily recoverable, the files would have shown up on their equipment.

The Powerbook is three or four years old, it doesn't make sense to throw more money into it.

[ Parent ]

Even a broken PowerBook has value (none / 0) (#10)
by andgarden on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:47:05 PM EST

You'd be amazed at what people will pay for old Apple equipment.

[ Parent ]

Ahhh, ok. (none / 0) (#12)
by Edger on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:00:31 PM EST

It sounds like it was ahead crash then.

Andgarden's suggestion is a good one then.

[ Parent ]

This company is in Madison, WI (none / 0) (#16)
by Edger on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:10:44 PM EST

$379 Hard Drive Recovery
Rapid recovery of your lost data.
No service fees unless successful!
www dot gillware dot com

Toll-Free:      877 624 7206
Local:     608 829 2533
Fax:     608 827 3061

Gillware Inc.
8417 Excelsior Drive
Suite 175
Madison, WI 53717

I found them by googling Powerbook G4 hard drive failure recovery

Maybe there is someone in Denver with a similar deal?

[ Parent ]

Bad link above (none / 0) (#17)
by Edger on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:14:39 PM EST

www dot gillware dot com

[ Parent ]

Maybe there is a dat recovery biz (none / 0) (#18)
by Edger on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:20:53 PM EST

that needs a defense lawyers' advice?

;-)

[ Parent ]

There are (none / 0) (#19)
by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:21:54 PM EST

But if its recoverable, like I said, the cost is usually $1k or more. I had to do it for a PC about 2 years ago and it cost me $1,700 and the recovered files are not in folders and don't have the same names I saved them as, so searching for something is very time consuming. Also, I had to buy an external hard drive for them to put the recovered files onto. And not all the files were recoverable.

I'm really just trying to recover my iTunes library. To do that, even using the third party applications, it seems I need to have a Mac because my iPod is Mac formatted. While there is a way to change the formatting on the iPod to PC from Mac, I've been reading a lot of the various forums on this and many wrote in that these programs didn't work well on a re-formatted Ipod.

I also want to be able to keep using the Apple Monitor I have, which again, requires a Mac.

But keep your suggestions coming, I'm reading them all.

[ Parent ]

: $1700? Ouch!!! (none / 0) (#20)
by Edger on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:23:25 PM EST

Do any of your (happy) past clients have experience in data recovery?

[ Parent ]
: Crossed replies (none / 0) (#32)
by mattd on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:02:10 AM EST

You do not need a Mac to keep using a DVI monitor; see comment #15.

[ Parent ]

My advice (none / 0) (#41)
by Goldfish on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 02:48:22 AM EST

For your next computer: Don't buy another Mac. At least not one under one of their warranties.

I have a Compaq notebook computer that went through the same thing your computer's going through (whatever you do, do not by an HP/Compaq computer, I've had one of each, and both the hardisks self-destructed; however both machines worked fine with third party disks). Luckily I had the 3 year warranty sold by CompUSA where I bought my computer. They offered to try and recover the data, just like your Mac "Geniuses." But the price they quoted was $20 to try and $40 to back the data up if they were able to recover it (and this was done by the same people who would do all the other repairs).

They disk ended up being a total lose, but they put in a new hard drive that has given me no problems (knock on wood), and all I was charged for was the $20 for their attempt to recover my data.

I don't know if they offer the same warranty for Macs (I would assume so, but don't know for sure), but I would highly recommend buying a computer from CompUSA that comes with the warranty (as long as it's not a Compaq).

[ Parent ]

the powerbook is not under warranty (none / 0) (#42)
by Jeralyn on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 03:13:06 AM EST

They want $150 to remove it and $350 to put a new one in. The new one would have none of my software and none of my files. It's also very outdated. Too much money to put into an aged, failing machine.

[ Parent ]

: failing machine? (none / 0) (#45)
by selise on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 05:57:01 AM EST

is there anything wrong with your powerbook - other than the HD?

[ Parent ]

HDs are cheap! (none / 0) (#44)
by selise on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 05:54:19 AM EST

you can get a new 160GB HD for less than $140.

seems to me that $140 to fix your powerbook, makes a lot more sense than buying a new macbook (i recently replaced the HD on my g4 ibook - which is almost 3 years old).

[ Parent ]

We went through this with (none / 0) (#13)
by Militarytracy on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:02:08 PM EST

all of the curriculum for my husband's class that he rewrote being lost like this. We were told it was either going to be a piece of cake or a pancake. Ours was a pancake and unrecoverable but he had bits of stuff all over the place in different small drives so he survived after one nervous break down.

[ Parent ]

Backing up is key to everyone anymore. (5.00 / 3) (#15)
by mattd on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:09:04 PM EST

In fact, in MDJ, we now describe it as the #1 security precaution to take, more important even than anti-virus software or quarantining downloads. This is why.

When you get your Mac up and running, go here and pay $10 and read it. If you assumed the iPod was somehow a backup of something, you need this E-book.

Now, as for specifics, I doubt it's as dire as it sounds. DVI and Mini-DVI are industry standards, even if you don't have a PC that uses them. If you replace the PowerBook, you will; otherwise you can get inexpensive adapters to use them on just about kind of computer. Google is your friend; a DVI to VGA adapter can cost as little as $5.

Hard drive death is never as black and white as "It's dead, Jim" or "He's alive, Jim." As Edger noted, unless something physically crashed into the magnetic platters of the drive, the data is there, but the hard drive cannot read it. Sometimes, believe it or not, you can get it working temporarily by holding the computer on its side - a stuck spindle might spin more freely in a different orientation. It's weird, but I've seen it with my own two eyes, and it costs nothing to try. If you can get it working, run to get an external hard drive and copy everything off it using a valid backup tool. Don't just try a drag-copy because you won't get everything due to Unix privileges.

Data recovery beyond that costs so much because they take the drive apart in a clean room and put the platters in a new mechanism to try to read them. A speck of dust can ruin the entire thing, so it's not exactly a kitchen-sink operation.

Plenty of programs can get your music back off your iPod, and presuming you own a license to the music (as in, you ripped it from CDs you own or similar), it's perfectly legal. Head to www.versiontracker.com and search for "iPod music" and you'll find a bunch. Just be sure not to erase your iPod before you salvage the music. If you told iTunes to keep "full resolution" photos on your iPod, then all those are there too and can be copied back. You may have to re-create playlists or photo albums, but the music is definitely on your iPod and the photos might be.

You can have the PowerBook running in about an hour if you get an external hard drive - you'll just have to get the DVD that came with it and install the OS on the external hard drive, then boot from it. If your internal hard drive has gone south, you can still boot from the DVD and use other disks. You won't be able to access anything from the PowerBook drive until it's repaired or recovered, but you can use the computer.

BTW, "Apple licensing" has absolutely no say on whether or not you can transfer data from one computer to another if Apple didn't license it to you. Apple licenses purchased iTunes music and video to you, and they'll let you deauthorize the old computer and authorize the new one (even cross-platform). Stuff you didn't buy from iTunes belongs to you, and neither the OS nor Apple does or will try to stop you from copying it. If a "genius" told you otherwise, he's misinformed or didn't understand the question.

Hopefully that'll give you some starter points about what to do next.

Apple Blues (5.00 / 3) (#21)
by Reasonable on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:27:04 PM EST

1) First hook up a Firewire Hard drive with a system and boot off of it then try using Techtools/ Disk Warrior or even Carbon Copy Cloner often you may get a chance for backing it up. It may take several reboots before you see your harddrive but it does work about 30% of the time.
You are right that sending it to a professional disk recovery service would probably be prohibitive.

I have used 2 or 3 different programs to transfer from iPod to New Mac ( my niece had one stolen and this is how I recovered her music) I used it as a chance to try the different programs. They have all worked with varying degrees of hassle but they work.
I always carry a backup Pocket hard drive with Firewire port cheaper to make them with a laptop drive and 3rd party case.

I do this for a living contact me if I can be of help.

Clone (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by squeaky on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:38:43 PM EST

I always carry a backup Pocket hard drive with Firewire port cheaper to make them with a laptop drive and 3rd party case.

The great thing of a MAc is that you can have a clone on an extermal firewire drive.

If your hard drive fails you can not miss a beat if you were backing up. Or if not at least you would have your operating system availabe with data up to your last backup. The backups are easy and can be automated.

Hard drives go regardless of what machine they are on that is why it is essential to have a clone and do regular backups.

The Other Thing I WOuld Do (none / 0) (#24)
by squeaky on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:50:30 PM EST

Is attach your computer to another Mac by firewire. While the other computer is on, restart (or start) your laptop while holding down the T key on your laptp[ keyboard.

That may work to put you in Target disk mode. You will see an orange firewire icon on the screen if it is working.

If it works you will be able to do is see your hard drive files from another MAc in a finder window. Chances are that the files are easily recoverable.

[ Parent ]

: I doubt it (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by mattd on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:11:44 AM EST

Everything Jeralyn describes sounds like physical drive failure, so it's unlikely to work in target disk mode if it can't work natively. It's worth a try if it's easy, but I don't think she has another computer with a FireWire port that could read HFS Plus disk format, so it might be a lot of work just to try it for no gain.
That would work if just a few boot-related files were corrupted, though, but the failed remedies so far don't fit that situation.

[ Parent ]

Did you recently upgrade Flash? (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by lawstudent on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:45:27 PM EST

Jeralyn,

I, too, have a Mac Powerbook G4, and it died on me in the exact same way as yours just a few days ago...it froze, and then when I rebooted I couldn't get past the gray screen. I also went through all the motions that I'm assuming you did (zapping p-ram, pmu, etc.) but to no avail. I suspected it had something to do with Flash 9 which was recently released, and I recently installed on my computer.

I managed to dig up the CD that came with my computer, popped it in, and rebooted while holding down the "C" key. My CPU booted off the CD and I was able to run the disk utility program and utilized the "repair disk" function. Then I rebooted. It took literally an hour, but it eventually booted up. I then immediately uninstalled flash 9 and backed up all my files to an external drive. Then, I rebooted and reinstalled flash. I've since had a working computer, but it's a bit spotty--restarts take forever. I think Flash 9 has some issues that are messing with Macs. Unfortunately, once they upgraded to 9, Flash 8 is no longer available!!

I'm no tech support guy, but this worked for me, and our problems sounded similar, so it's worth a shot. And if all else fails, I've had success with a program called iPodrip to get stuff OFF my ipod and ONTO my CPU.

And as an aside, I'm taking the NY bar exam on Tues-Wed., and when my computer died a week before (even though I'm handwriting the exam), I just about lost it!!

Definately worth a try (none / 0) (#25)
by squeaky on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:57:07 PM EST

Definitely worth a try before going into target disk mode.

After restarting with operating system disk and holding down the C key

The menu bar at the top of the screen go to disk utility.

[ Parent ]

Great advice (none / 0) (#26)
by Jeralyn on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:10:22 AM EST

I'm going to try all that. But, the powerbook came with Panther which I later upgraded to Tiger. Which install disk do I use?

Good luck on the bar exam, the TL kid is taking it too in NY this week. I tried some more practice questions last night with him on the phone -- try the Bonnie and Clyde one if you haven't already, it's a doozie. Are you at Javits?

Good luck and thanks for taking time out to answer this post.

[ Parent ]

Found the original install disk (none / 0) (#27)
by Jeralyn on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:16:44 AM EST

Never mind the panther/tiger question, I found the original install disk, still sealed in plastic. Going to give it a try.

[ Parent ]

Use Tiger!!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by andgarden on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:20:23 AM EST

It will boot your system just fine.

[ Parent ]

Yes I Saw MASH (none / 0) (#29)
by squeaky on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:24:51 AM EST

Definitely use Tiger!

[ Parent ]

Mash (none / 0) (#30)
by squeaky on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:26:08 AM EST

Has nothing to do with it. It was a typo from autofill

[ Parent ]

no go (none / 0) (#31)
by Jeralyn on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:37:59 AM EST

tried the original disk, got to disk utility, it said it would gather files but never gathered any. thats what happened at the genius bar and why they said the disk died. Plus, the disk sowed up in red as "failed".

Then stuck in the tiger installation disk, again holding down the c key. it's not going past the apple logo screen.

i'm giving up, time for a macbook and then i'll worry about getting the ipod files transferred to it.

[ Parent ]

Hmm, OK (5.00 / 1) (#34)
by mattd on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:09:54 AM EST

Disk Utility isn't going to help you; if the drive isn't readable, it's just going to try a few times and tell you the same thing. The problem doesn't sound like bad data structures on the drive, the problem sounds like physical difficulty reading the data. Did you try running it sideways? (I swear it sounds stupid but I've seen it work...)

If you see the gray Apple logo screen, the computer has decided what drive it's trying to boot from and is attempting to boot from it. If you have a bootable DVD in the drive, hold down the "C" key during reboot/power-on, and see the gray logo and the spinning indicator (honest to god, it's called "chasing arrows" because it replaced two arrows in a circle that used to chase each other), you can release the key - it's already chosen the boot disk and is trying it.

This happened around here in...early 2006? with a PowerBook G4, and when I tried running it on its side (with the left edge of the screen/powerbook on the ground and the right edge up in the air), it worked well enough to back everything up, so no data was lost. Then it got sent in for AppleCare repairs and a new hard drive, and we just restored it when it came back. It still amazes me that it worked, or that I even tried it, since it's literally one step away from "not holding your tongue right," but there ya go.

As for boot DVDs, it shouldn't make a difference - both the Panther disk that came with it and the Tiger one you bought should boot it just fine. It can take a long time to boot from DVD, though, so once you see the spinning indicator, release the "c" key and have a nice beverage. (Plus, every time the boot DVD tries to read the hard drive, it'll take about 10 seconds before it fails, so it can take a very long time to boot.)

Anyway, that's what I'd try next. I'm not just whistling dixie, either; Jeralyn can see my E-mail address and know I've been doing this for a while. :-)

[ Parent ]

: Just tried turning it on its side (none / 0) (#37)
by Jeralyn on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:15:09 AM EST

And still wouldn't go past the gray logo screen. The spinning indicator stays there for a while and then the screen goes black and the machine shuts down.

[ Parent ]

oh well... (none / 0) (#49)
by lawstudent on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 08:44:17 AM EST

Too bad booting off the CD didn't work. It was definitely worth a shot. Sorry it didn't work out...I know EXACTLY how you feel! Hopefully you can revive your music somehow.

I'm taking the bar at the Armory on 168th st. No Javits for me. Looking forward to Wednesday night! Good luck to the TL kid and anyone else who has endured this long summer...

[ Parent ]

A lesson to take heart. (5.00 / 1) (#48)
by Fritz on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 08:23:04 AM EST

Jeralyn wrote: "I'm so mad at my Powerbook I feel like taking everything Apple in my house and throwing it in the dumpster outside."

That statement is ridiculous. The manufacturer of the hard drive is not Apple. Apple is a software company that also designs devices that use it's software. I can empathize with your predicament, but it has nothing to do with Apple. Use this as a learning experience. You will love your new Macbook, your experience with Tiger will be enhanced, plus you will be ready for Leopard this fall. The best suggestion in the thread, have an external back-up device to protect you from non-Apple hardware issues. Chances are, the manufacturer of the hard drive on your PC is the same, back-up your PC too.

Don't blame the Mac (5.00 / 1) (#52)
by Mark on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 09:54:23 AM EST

Sorry to hear about your problems, but it's a learning experience that it seems all computer owners have to go through--once.

Hard drives, whether Mac or PC, last about a year on average (running constantly). MTBF = mean time before failure.

On the Mac the easiest thing to do is to use SuperDuper, which you set to create and maintain a bootable backup disk. You just need to buy an external drive that is the same capacity of your Mac's hard drive, set up the schedule, and it automatically updates the backup, taking about 15 minutes a day, during which time you can still use the computer.

Then when (not if) your drive fails, you boot from the backup. Only a part of a day's work will be lost. When you get a replacement drive installed, you can mirror the backup back to the Mac's drive.

: A very good point to make. (none / 0) (#53)
by fafnir on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 10:24:31 AM EST

Apple cultivated high brand loyalty by making quality, reliable products people enjoy using.
Component failure is brand agnostic and a fact of computing technology. Hard drive failure occurs on PCs as well as Macs. Personally, I've been very fortunate thus far, but drive failure will occur.
I've owned five Macs (PowerBook, 2-PowerMacs, iMac, iBook) and one Mac clone, purchased between 1994 and 2006, and haven't experienced any component failures. All machines are operational today. On the other hand, I've had one Dell notebook issued by my employer that experienced a head-banging hard drive of death.
The lesson that can't be over emphasized here is to backup early and often.

[ Parent ]

Senuti (none / 0) (#7)
by mindfulmission on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:44:35 PM EST

Jeralyn... try Senuti. I used it after I bought my mac to import my songs from iPod to the new computer, and it worked great.

http://www.fadingred.org/senuti/

apple blues (none / 0) (#11)
by olie on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 10:47:41 PM EST

I accidentally erased my itunes library-
i found a download for podutil on previously mentioned ilounge
worked great, loading everything from ipod to PC

: They both look good (none / 0) (#14)
by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:07:41 PM EST

Sensuti and podutil (which has been renamed Music Rescue.) I'll check them out.

[ Parent ]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions (none / 0) (#33)
by Jeralyn on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:06:24 AM EST

I've read and considered them all and checked out all the sites you've linked to.

Bottom line: I need a new Macbook, and after I get it, I can use a third party program to download the music and video from my iPod to the new computer.

If you can contribute a few bucks for the new Macbook, that would be great and very much appreciated. If you'd like to buy it for me, just click on my wishlist link.

There are a few other things you can try... (none / 0) (#36)
by mattd on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:13:03 AM EST

...if you want to read the other comments.

BTW, why is TalkLeft's server clock ten minutes fast? This partially explains why I'm so confused about posting before/after you. ;-)

[ Parent ]

: no idea about the server clock (none / 0) (#38)
by Jeralyn on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:16:44 AM EST

but you are right. It's midnight and my comments are posting 15 minutes ahead. I'll ask TL's webmaster to check it out. Thanks for pointing it out.

[ Parent ]

Google (none / 0) (#39)
by jarober on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:17:21 AM EST

I don't recall what I bought, but I bougt a $29 application that did what you want. Just use Google.

Copying your iTunes music (none / 0) (#46)
by fafnir on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 06:33:20 AM EST

Jeralyn

You can place your iTunes music onto your new machine. Every song you buy from iTunes contains your iTunes signature (login name), and Apple allows you to copy your music on up to five computers you own.

For example, I just bought my daughter a new MacBook Pro (LED backlit screen) for college. I used Apple's instructions to migrate her iTunes music easily from the family iMac onto her MacBook. Works great.

If your all of your music is synced to your iPod, you can use iTunes 7 to copy your music from your iPod to your iTunes (Apple calls it "reverse sync") without using third-party software.

Good luck.

Yowch (none / 0) (#47)
by scarshapedstar on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 07:38:12 AM EST

For $150, they would remove the hard drive

Now that's service!

Back up (none / 0) (#50)
by Reasonable on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 09:18:12 AM EST

When the hard drive goes down whenever you try to reboot make sure you are ready to backup You may only get one chance and the more often you start it up the less possibility you may get that chance.

Another possibility is that if you have that Hard Drive removed put it in an external case and tap it on boot up. Stiction is always a possibility. But this can sometimes get it going one last time.

If your iPod has the extra space go to it's preferences ( inside iTunes while it is hooked up) and choose to use it in disk mode as well then copy your Music folder to it. This makes a copy in a format that can readily and easily be moved.

Another thing is if you are just using this as your "kitchen" machine you might want to consider a Mac Mini.

doorstop (none / 0) (#54)
by smiley on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 10:44:09 AM EST

sorry to hear about your loss. We come to depend on fragile technology, and its death is often crippling if we're unprepared to deal with it.

That said, in a world where you can buy 500 GB external IDE drives for $110, there is no excuse for not having backups. It's just irresponsible. As other posters have noted, your hard drive WILL die. All of them do. It's only a matter of time.

And if you had read anything Cory Doctorow has written for the past four years, you should have known that Apple-formatted music on the iPod itself does not belong to you. those files are DRM-restricted, and Apple doesn't really care how much you spent to acquire that music because they can just force you to buy it all again. Rip music from cd's or buy it in MP3 format (preferably from the russians). Don't buy WMA or AAC-encoded music.

Open formats and redundant backups are they key to any long-term data preservation. I hope you can save the files on your mac, but I also hope you'll learn from the experience so that when your NEXT hard drive dies, you know that you haven't lost anything.

: Protected music and backups (none / 0) (#56)
by msweston on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 11:13:03 AM EST

The question of whether you "own" your iTunes-bought music is irrelevant if it is backed up. If your drive fails, you restore it, and it works.

[ Parent ]

Having and using a backup program is essential (none / 0) (#55)
by msweston on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 11:09:13 AM EST

Most of the questions of which drive to buy, should you keep the computer or buy a new one, etc. are not addressing the most important point:

Buy a backup program you are comfortable with and use it regularly. Make two backups- one that is conveniently located, and a duplicate of that which you keep in a safe deposit box (which you update every few months or at a frequency that is comfortable for you) so that your backup system can't be easily thwarted by fire or theft.

I have been the victim of both theft and HD failure, but neither one left me in an uncomfortable position thanks to insurance and my backup system. I have nearly a TB of music ripped painstakingly over the course of a year from a large music collection and a huge collection of family photos which exist only as digital data. The disappearance of either of these would be a crushing loss, but the failure of hardware is something I expect and plan around.

Finally, your backup may fail, too. For your backup storage, buy a plain internal drive like a Seagate and an enclosure to put it in. Seagate has a five-year warranty, last I looked- if it fails, you just mail the drive to them and they send you another. No consumer pre-fabricated external drive has a warranty anywhere near this. Taking the time to put together your own drive is well worth it.

change the harddrive (none / 0) (#57)
by dmh on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 11:48:43 AM EST

If you can recover the lost iTunes, and the iTunes store recently allowed me to recover the music lost when my daughter's HD died, then you might want to consider changing the harddrive yourself. It isn't as easy as installing RAM but with a little patience you can do it. It essentially involves removing the bottom portion of the case (7 or 8 screws) and a few things on the inside of the computer but I have done it twice with my PB and I claim no particular expertise. If you google it you will find fairly clear instructions.

LapTop Hard Drives (none / 0) (#58)
by squeaky on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:14:24 PM EST

Here

Powerbook 15" aluminum HD replacement guide

[ Parent ]

: second that! (none / 0) (#66)
by selise on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 02:19:43 PM EST

i replaced my g4 ibook's HD when it failed a couple of months ago - using the ifixit instructions linked to above.
got a 160GB HD for less than 140$
works great.
just follow the instructions, and keep track of the screws (i used double sticky tape on printouts of the pictures in the instructions).

[ Parent ]

iPod to CPU copying... (none / 0) (#59)
by lawstudent on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:36:23 PM EST

It seems to me that Apple should allow copying from ipods to computers. I would assume that Apple blocks this so that you can't go over to your friend's house with your ipod and give him all your music. Ok. But since any music on your iPod is presumably on your CPU, couldn't you just burn a CD or a DVD or transfer files to an external drive to share them with friends? Plus, there are plenty of programs that allow you to hack Apple's protection and download off your ipod. Their major concern is probably the stuff you buy at the Apple store, but those songs will only play where authorized anyway, so it seems to be a moot point.

In light of Jeralyn's experience as well as others who fear they have lost all their music when a hard drive dies, it would be nice if Apple could allow iPods to serve as effectively backing up all of one's music. Everyone I know who has ever had their computer drive die--the first thing out of their mouth is: "What about all of my music?" It seems ridiculous that all of your music is sitting on this "computer"--the ipod--yet you can't get any of it off of there with Apple's help. At the very least, you should be able to go to the Genius Bar and have them do it for you using some "top secret" software. Come on Apple! Lead the charge here...

: Not Apple (none / 0) (#60)
by squeaky on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:43:22 PM EST

But the RIAA and the MPAA who would let Apple sell music and have a DVD player only if they played by their rules.

[ Parent ]

Jeralyn (none / 0) (#63)
by Slado on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:54:20 PM EST

That totally sucks.

On a lighter note this brings to mind the episode of Sex in the City where her apple crashes and everyone repeatedly asks her...

"You backed your hardrvie didn't you"

to which Carrie eventually responds...

"Why does everyone keep asking me that?"

Possible save advice (none / 0) (#65)
by azureblue on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 02:15:54 PM EST

I am a Mac consultant, and have had several Apple laptops pass through my hands with your problem. here are some things to think about:

Your drive data may be recoverable, but the drive will have to be taken out.

That said, you need to decide which path to take, since the laptop is now open: drop in a drive & sell it, or try to save it.

Back to #1: very often, a drive can be revived by freezing it, if it has not had a head crash: Put the drive in a plastic bag, squeeze as much air out of it as you can, then leave it in the freezer overnight, or until you are ready to deal with it. You can try putting the drive back in the laptop, and firing it up with the guts all hanging out, but you have to be real careful doing this. Since you have just learned a lesson on backing up, the better thing to do is to go get a USB 2.0 / firewire 2.5" drive case and put the drive in the case. But wait until the next step before you do- by the time you put the cold drive in the case, it will have warmed up enough to run.

Get a replacement internal drive- I prefer a 7200 rpm as they will improve performance, and put it in the laptop. Put the laptop back together again, find your SW install CD and fire it up, then install & update everything. Then hook up the external drive and see if the Mac sees it. You have a good chance it will, and you haven't lost anything by trying.

If you have gotten this far without a problem, then find your user file on the external drive & drag it over to the desktop on the laptop. Then drag the user file on the laptop drive into the trash (don't empty the trash, the move the user file from the desktop to replace it. Look for any other file data that is not int he user file, like fonts, etc, move that, then restart the laptop. You should have all your preferences back and your files.
If you go to macfixit, you will find instructions on how to take out the old drive. it is not easy and the instructions must be followed exactly, all the way down to putting the screws back in the holes they came out of. Especially the three screws over the DVD/CD drive.

look at spending six hours to do this, maybe more, then decide what your time is worth. Then add in maybe $200 for replacement drive & external case, and there is your bottom line. there are shops like macfixit, that will pull the drive for about $200 or so- look through the macsurfer website for more info.

Good Luck...

PS iTunes (none / 0) (#68)
by azureblue on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 02:20:57 PM EST

If you name your new HD has the same as the old, you might be able to avoid having to reauthorize your iTunes music. But the tunes can be reauthorized for the new drive without expense. If you get a new laptop, you will still be allowed to move them and authorize- Apple thought of this drive fail scenario long ago.

Make sure you have moved your iTunes music folder (& iPhoto, too) before you restart with your moved user folder. Certainly do not start iTunes until you have everything in place

some good news (none / 0) (#69)
by Jeralyn on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 03:21:23 PM EST

the mac repair place here said they can move the music and video from my iPod to the new laptop using the third party applications -- (or to the old one if I purchase a new hard drive for it.)

Since my itunes library is the only thing on the failed hard drive that I care about preserving, that takes care of a big part of the problem.

: What A Relief (none / 0) (#70)
by squeaky on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 03:27:06 PM EST

That must be, cause we all know how much you love your music..
Still a drag, but not unusual in the world of laptops.

[ Parent ]

Are you absolutely SURE the hard drive (none / 0) (#71)
by bronte17 on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 10:35:25 PM EST

is gone?

I'm not the biggest geek in the world, but IF you plug the hard drive in and it SPINS, then you can still recover the data.

Might want to try out a Vantec adapter from newegg.com. I bought one for $18.99 when my hard drive got fried while we were gone out of state. It's called a SATA/IDE to USB 2.0 Adapter and it has MANY cables and a power supply and it supports 2.5", 3.5" & 5.25" IDE and SATA drives. See if your hard drive will run on it.

Or, do you have an external enclosure to test your hard drive? See what you can find at newegg. Some of the external enclosures come with software (CD) that can read hard drives that people thought were gone.

Just a suggestion. And, you might want to check the prices AND REBATE SPECIALS for a laptop at newegg. Many times shipping is free or only $4.00 or so.

One more quick way to save it --get KNOPPIX (none / 0) (#72)
by bronte17 on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 10:14:36 PM EST

Do a google search and you will find Knoppix...it's a bootable CD version of Linux.

Before starting your computer, put in that Knoppix CD, then start your computer and BOOT FROM CD DRIVE. You should be able to read your hard drive IF THERE IS ANY CHANCE TO READ IT.

Just a second thought here to help you save your work and data on that hard drive.