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Friday Open Thread

Scotland voted to stay in the U.K. "With 31 of 32 constituencies declared, unionists had won 55 percent of the vote while separatists were on 45 percent."

The bill to arm and train "moderate" Syrian rebels has now passed in the Senate.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Sad but true Scotland lost the vote (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:16:59 AM EST
    but Cameron promises reform with taxes, welfare and more.  Unfortunately the English have made these very promises before and not kept them.  They even grumble in the pubs if you pay for a pint with a Scottish pound.  We gave them a scare and if the promises are not kept well, remember the film Braveheart.

    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 07:54:51 AM EST
    people were saying last "see ya in a couple of years when the promises are not kept"

    It must have been a bit gratifying to see the Brits so panicked

    Parent

    I know Longshanks' (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:55:42 AM EST
    notion of promises, one of those and 3 quid will buy you a pint.

    Parent
    fiscamp: "We gave them a scare and if the promises are not kept well, remember the film Braveheart."

    ... of 21st century Scottish nationalism to the American public, than a gratuitously overwrought film about a 13th century nationalist-turned-action superhero, starring an anti-Semitic Australian neo-Catholic in the title role.

    (Bah-DUM-Bum-Bumm.)

    I'm sorry, dude, but I really couldn't help myself. I was simply walking by and minding my own business, when I suddenly glanced to my left and saw that statement all teed up, winking at me suggestively and handing me a 2-wood, all the while begging me to drive it down the fairway.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Where in the HeII... (none / 0) (#86)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:26:10 PM EST
    ...did that statement find a 2-wood ?

    I have hear rumors and I have 7 & 9 woods, even a 1 iron, but I have never seen a 2 wood.  Just wondering why you metaphorically grabbed an elusive club to tee of with.

    Parent

    A 2-wood is what my high school coach ... (none / 0) (#97)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:43:26 PM EST
    ... used to call a baseball bat. When you were in the dugout and he told you to pick up a 2-wood, that meant he was about to send you in to pinch-hit.

    But yes, there are indeed 2-woods, some with prices that are simply too low to advertise. I suppose that they're to be used in those instances when you need to drive the ball deep into the adjoining county.

    ;-D

    Parent

    Well if Prices are Too Low to Advertize... (none / 0) (#111)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:20:24 PM EST
    ...then I must have one.  It's like the prices are so low they are illegal.

    I like that, calling a bat a 2 wood.

    Parent

    Donald regardless of your obdurate (none / 0) (#98)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:44:21 PM EST
    opinions of the movie Braveheart you amazingly grazed the truth by relating it to the game of golf which the Scots invented.

    Parent
    Yes, they most certainly did. (none / 0) (#107)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:04:11 PM EST
    And thus, the Scots can also lay claim for having invented the underlying rationale for Palm Springs. And for the record, I'm actually not a golfer, although I've occasionally mimicked one while on the fairways.

    Parent
    Donald I can truthfully say (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:11:53 PM EST
    you completely fulfill the ideas and shoes of a politician. :)

    Parent
    Reliably, (none / 0) (#2)
    by lentinel on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:23:22 AM EST
    Cameron, Obama and the Queen all came out against the movement for independence.

    Obama's reason was my favorite.
    He needs a "strong" partner...presumably for his military escapades.

    Parent

    And no rioting (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:09:30 AM EST
    the union jack@ffs must be disappointed

    Parent
    Do you see this coming up for (none / 0) (#9)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:21:11 AM EST
    another vote some time in the not too distant future?

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 09:19:47 AM EST
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 09:30:35 AM EST
    Maybe so! (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 09:54:53 AM EST
    One more comment (none / 0) (#27)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 09:59:54 AM EST
    and we'll have the perfect range of opinions :)

    Parent
    I think, (none / 0) (#35)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 10:51:16 AM EST
    maybe?

    Parent
    I am still trying to forget that pathetic movie. (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 10:43:05 AM EST
    Oculus I'm sorry to have reminded (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:34:59 PM EST
    you of a movie or an actor you dislike.  My point was more about the fierce determination of the Scots. ;)

    Parent
    How can you not like Braveheart? (none / 0) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 10:45:19 AM EST
    Not a fan of Mel. Loved "Rob Roy.". (none / 0) (#34)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 10:51:13 AM EST
    I enjoyed Rob Roy too (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 11:31:16 AM EST
    Getting ready to watch 'Belle' On Demand because I'll be roasting in the stands tonight :). It might be a little cooler than last week though.

    Parent
    Doyou have a chiller scarf? (none / 0) (#45)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 11:52:34 AM EST
    Aye Lassie... (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 10:55:07 AM EST
    Whatever you think of Mel, that's a f*ckin' awesome movie.

    Who knew our pal Oc was the definition of a hipster...hating a universally adored film like that;)

    Parent

    In it's day, I thought it was pretty terrific (none / 0) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 11:34:57 AM EST
    Things have picked up since though in Hollywood and Broadway.  Braveheart doesn't quite hold up as well as say The Godfather or Jurassic Park.

    Parent
    Ya think? (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 11:43:56 AM EST
    I must beg to differ, it's on my short list of films where if I stumble upon it channel surfing, I'm stuck for the duration.  Timeless classic.

    Parent
    I always say (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:21:55 PM EST
    if you don't have anything good to say
    Come sit next to me.

    Parent
    It's actually quite easy. (none / 0) (#144)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:51:55 PM EST
    Before seeing Braveheart, I never knew that King Edward "Longshanks" of England was the inspiration for the character of Snideley Whiplash in the Dudley Do-Right cartoons.

    But admittedly, Braveheart did have some wonderfully choreographed battle scenes, even if the film itself did take considerable license with some of the film's actual historical events, by salaciously coating them with lots of blood and gore.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Donald how do you know (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:34:59 PM EST
    they took considerable license with some of the film's actual historical events, by salaciously coating them with lots of blood and gore?  In truth it was even worse and could never have been shown on the screen... bra...

    Parent
    I liked seeing Mel (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:56:06 PM EST
    disemboweled

    Parent
    Question. (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 01:09:04 PM EST
    Why are all of you folks lining up behind Scotland being independent, like Canada, but you opposed CA voters voting to split the state into six separate states?????

    I mean if the issue is representation and a distinct culture then your CA position doesn't make sense.

    In fact, since I am sure all of you just love diversity then it really doesn't make sense!

    I mean I don't care if Scotland becomes independent or not although being mostly Scot Irish many times removed I guess I have a tiny weenie dog in the fight.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Ah yes.. (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:29:33 PM EST
    the hated and feared "diversity"..

    The ultimate threat to the five or six allowable conservative thoughts; orbiting around God, the Flag, Free Markets, and the eternal superiority of white northern European culture..

    Parent

    jondee you can twist and turn (2.00 / 1) (#115)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:28:53 PM EST
    but if you are for smaller groups needing their own culture then you can't be for diversity. (all hail diversity!!!!)

    You're just pulling a Humpty Dumpty and making up definitions to suit yourself.

    Parent

    I don't recall.... (none / 0) (#66)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 01:33:38 PM EST
    opposing the Six State thingy...power to the people baby!

    Parent
    Actually kdog (none / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 01:44:18 PM EST
    I don't put you in that group...

    ;-)

    Parent

    What say ye... (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:06:20 PM EST
    about breaking the USA up into smaller nations where citizens are better represented by their federal governments.

    Rough proposal...

    Northeast United States...Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Mass., Rhode Island, Connecticut, Penn., New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland.

    Southeast United States...Virginia, W. Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee,  Arkansas, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, N. Carolina, S. Carolina.

    United States of the Great Lakes...Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota.

    Central United States...Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, N. Dakota, S. Dakota.

    United States of The Rockies...Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Nevada, Montana.

    Southwest United States...Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arizona.

    Pacific United States...California, Oregon, Washington, Hawaii, & Alaska.  

    Parent

    Hey kdog the Florida Keys (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:59:05 PM EST
    have been trying to separate for years and we even have flags and T shirts depicting the "Conch Republic".

    Parent
    The Conch Republic Succeded (none / 0) (#114)
    by ragebot on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:27:47 PM EST
    where others have failed.

    Conch Republic

    Parent

    Very good ragebot, you're hip to the happenings. (none / 0) (#133)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:17:39 PM EST
    It will be a short lived nation (none / 0) (#119)
    by Palli on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:43:08 PM EST
    Soon they will be underwater

    Parent
    Well, as long as Maryland is (none / 0) (#95)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:35:20 PM EST
    With the Northeast US, and not the Southeast!
    ;-)


    Parent
    Why??? (none / 0) (#71)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 02:12:57 PM EST
    Why are all of you folks ... opposed CA voters voting to split the state into six separate states???

    Because they would rather live in a country with 1 Jerry Brown rather than a country  with 3 Jerry Browns and 3 Pete Wilsons.

    Parent

    I'd say that California voters ... (none / 0) (#91)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:31:18 PM EST
    ... made their wishes known loud and clear on the subject of "Six Californias," given the fact that its proponents couldn't even gather enough valid signatures to qualify the measure as a 2016 ballot initiative.

    Even though professional signature gatherers got paid over $2 per John Hancock, alas, I'm afraid that Mr. Hancock, his girlfriend Helena Montana, and their fellow signatories Belle Zaringen, Donnatella Yamada, and Oliver Clozoff are not legally registered to vote in the State of California.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Hooey (none / 0) (#112)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:21:03 PM EST
    We have no idea if the signatures are valid. This is a classic "fox guarding the hen house."

    But tell me. How would have voted if you were living there and it came to a vote??

    Parent

    What fox guarding what hen house? (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:45:51 PM EST
    Oh yeah, and if it made the ballot, it would have gone down in flames, just like the Republicans in the state . . . .

    Some things in CA just can't be bought, ask Meg Whitman :P

    Parent

    Actually, it's probably because (none / 0) (#164)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:31:59 PM EST
    the effort to get signatures wasn't what it should be.

    Let's hear from someone who studies these things for a living and what they have to say about it, James:

    Thad Kousser, a UC San Diego political expert, said that the effort's failure doesn't say anything about the merits of the proposal. Instead, he said, "I think it says everything about a lack of organizational savvy by its proponents."

    Sound kinda fishy to me, anyway:

    In July, several voters from different parts of California told this newspaper that paid signature gatherers for Draper's measure had lied to them, claiming the measure did the exact opposite of what it really does. Michael Arno, owner of the political consulting firm, downplayed the reports at the time and contended that past allegations of skulduggery by his firm in other campaigns had been trumped up by politica, several voters from different parts of California told this newspaper that paid signature gatherers for Draper's measure had lied to them, claiming the measure did the exact opposite of what it really does. Michael Arno, owner of the political consulting firm, downplayed the reports at the time and contended that past allegations of skulduggery by his firm in other campaigns had been trumped up by politica




    Parent
    What do you mean, "Hooey"? (none / 0) (#169)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:41:12 PM EST
    What makes you think that you, as a resident of the South, would somehow know more about this particular issue than would, say, the staff of the California Secretary of State's office?

    Were I still a CA resident and this silly proposal had actually made the ballot, I'd be only too proud to vote "Nay" on that demented brainchild of a self-absorbed Silicon Valley venture capital who has way too much time on his hands.

    The "Six Californias" measure required 807,615 valid voter signatures to qualify for the March 2016 ballot, and proponents turned in nearly 1.14 million to the Secretary of State last July. But after months of examination and sampling, state election officials determined that only 752,685 signatures were actually valid -- which of course means that approximately one out of every three signatures submitted by "Six Californias" was invalid.

    Tim Draper, the aforementioned venture capitalist, spent an estimated $5.6 million in pursuit of this nonsense. If there was any fraud committed, I'd say it was on the part of the firms that contracted to collect signatures at $2 to $3 per, and further that it came at Draper's own expense.

    Then again, what is it they say about a fool and his money?

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Jim the main reason Scotland (none / 0) (#90)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:30:55 PM EST
    wanted to separate from England is for centuries they have been persecuted, tortured, and killed until recently, but mostly because they have been denied their equal rights.  I think you know this.

    Parent
    Yes indeed but the key phrase is (none / 0) (#113)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:23:39 PM EST
    "until recently."

    And the Scots gave as good as they got in many cases.

    Having said that, should we unearth all old grudges?? I mean down here "Dam Yankee" just became two words.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Jim you're a wee bit off with the truth (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:43:45 PM EST
    in regards to the Scots giving as good as they got.  Try reading the massive eight books of the "Outlander" series and the truth will be revealed my friend.  Finally finished book five "The Fiery Cross" and find it necessary to read a simple spy thriller before tackling the 1483 pages of "A Breath of Snow and Ashes" by Diana Gabaldon.  Not sure how a wee lass from Scottsdale, Arizona knows all these fabulous Scottish stories.

    Parent
    Just because the Scots (5.00 / 3) (#145)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:55:11 PM EST
    "gave as good as they got" doesn't nullify the fact of what fishcamp wrote, or that to this day the English still look down on the Scottish people as inferior to them in many cases.

    If I hit you in the nose unprovoked, and you hit me back in the eye as hard, does that somehow justify the original punch?  That's what you seem to be saying here.

    So it's not an old grudge, it's an ongoing problem that the English need to address if they truly want them to be part of a "United Kingdom".

    Anyway, if Southerners can still do the stinkeye like what I received in TX a few years ago from a clerk in store there, they don't need to remember to say "Damn Yankee".  And no, I didn't provoke him by saying that Darwin was right or that GWB wasn't the best thing since sliced bread.

    Parent

    One thing (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by lentinel on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:32:53 AM EST
    that interested everyone was the size of voter registration, and the size of the turnout. Up near 90% .

    It made me think that people will turn out to vote if they can feel that their vote has an actual bearing on the quality of their lives.

    That is something I haven't felt in quite awhile - despite the exhortations of some people posting here whose opinions I respect, but cannot feel at this juncture.

    Example: Obama v/s McCain. What could be clearer?
    And yet, the fact that Obama actually campaigned for Joe Lieberman against Lamont in 2006 - a time when the entire country was revolted by the war in Iraq - turned my stomach to such a degree that I could not feel anything positive about him - no matter how fkd up McCain appeared to be.

    I suspect others may feel as put off as I - and that would have something to do with the dismal turnouts here in the US.

    Another positive note in the Scottish vote: they have enfranchised voters from the age of 16.

    I believe that should happen here too.
    16 and 17 year olds have a great stake in the policies of our government and should have the right to express themselves at the ballot box.

    HAve to admit (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:05:05 AM EST
    the Lieberman/Lamont thing really pi$$ed me off.  And the idea of LIEberman as mentor thing made me shudder.

    Parent
    That whole (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:26:06 AM EST
    Lieberman thing should have been a tip off to a lot of people that Obama was just saying what they wanted to hear.

    Parent
    It also made me think that (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:13:19 PM EST
    with turnout that high, the results have so much more legitimacy. With our elections, the winning side is really the opinion of such a low proportion of the population. We have to do better - I hope this show people here a good example.

    Parent
    In a bit of a spot (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:19:12 AM EST
    during the Lamont thing I called and emailed Mark Pryor and said if he backed LIEberman  (which he did) I would never vote for him again.   Looks like I may have to.


    Parent
    Good to be Flexible (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:26:26 AM EST
    Things change..

    Parent
    Hobby Lobby must be so proud (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:36:05 AM EST
    Polygamous religious sect dodges subpoena with Hobby Lobby ruling

    This summer's Supreme Court ruling on Hobby Lobby is having a cascading effect of unintended consequences, this time potentially impacting a radical religious sect facing allegations of breaking child labor laws.

    A federal judge in Utah ruled last week that a member of a Mormon offshoot known as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS) was exempted from testifying in a federal child labor investigation, claiming that sharing information on the inter-workings of the church violated his religious vows.



    So Help Me.... (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:39:55 AM EST
    Praise The Lord :) (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 10:07:55 AM EST
    General Welsh is a General!

    Parent
    Yay (none / 0) (#16)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:52:44 AM EST
    Hope the guy survives the wrath of god.

    Parent
    Why the military is needed (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 09:06:38 AM EST
    A spokesman for the government in Guinea said on Thursday that eight bodies were found two days after a group of health workers and journalists went missing in the country.

    The journalists and officials came under attack near the southern city of Nzerekore, close to the Liberian border. One journalist was able to escape and later told reporters that she could hear villagers looking for her.

    The Associated Press said that the group "was doing disinfection and education on prevention methods" when it went missing.

    Doctors and researchers trying to contain the Ebola outbreak, which is deadlier than all previous outbreaks combined, have run up against a population deeply suspicious of medical personnel. Last month, riots broke out in the same Guinean city over rumors that health care workers were infecting people with the virus.



    Going to get worse (none / 0) (#23)
    by Slado on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 09:36:29 AM EST
    before it gets better.

    Frontline had an excellent story on the Ebola outbreak and they showed people in the cities saying that the government was lying about the outbreak and all sorts of other propaganda that will lead to more infections.

    Then in the small villages were the outbreak is worst people were scared to talk to health workers and keep infecting their families and neighbors because they're scared to go to the temporary hospitals.

    It's very sad and more support is needed if the outbreak is going to get better anytime soon.  The local governments and services aren't anywhere near enough to deal with it.

    In fact many of the hospitals are shut down because doctors and nurses have died treating the outbreak.  If the international community doesn't step in it will get worse before it gets better.

    Parent

    I think we are past that (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 09:51:35 AM EST
    and at the "How much worse" stage

    Parent
    Maybe we should let them (none / 0) (#117)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:30:29 PM EST
    self educate.

    Parent
    Please (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:35:22 PM EST
    please please don't respond to this sick pathetic racist baiting.  Just let it lie there.  


    Parent
    What does he even mean? (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:10:03 PM EST
    If only the wingers could "self educate" ...

    Parent
    We know what it means (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:13:42 PM EST
    pure trolling.  And IMO despicable.

    Parent
    Looks like we are, once again, (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 10:53:03 AM EST
    off to the races to see if we can't resolve the sectarian hatreds and power struggles of the Middle East. And, indeed, to curb terror in Europe (Italian ISIS) or at home, terror in Topeka and before they kill all of us.   The senate stood up and voted to authorize the arming of those trusted, moderate Syrian rebels under the rubric of the spending bill, and now can sit down.  When the polls turn, they can stand up again and say that they were always opposed, or they were wrong (that does not seem to matter)  but the only option was to vote for funding these moderates or shutting the government down.

    But, this is only part of the ISIS, Syrian, Iraq strategy: we have assisted in the re-organization of the Iraqi government with a new leader. Hopefully this will not be a re-arrangement of the deck chairs on this Titanic.   In large measure, the same people will be seated across from one another at their meetings, so it could reasonably be described as a challenge.

    Our coalition is in action with a French airstrike and our strong Arab allies, UAE and Saudi Arabia are doing their fair share--of talking.  In fairness, the Saudis will be training those Syrian moderates.  I do hope that the Senior Administration officials have looked at a map so they know where to send these moderates for their anti-ISIS training.

    If not, this will give us all a chance to pitch in this new war effort,  young and old.   It will make us feel better than just sitting back watching Fox news and committing our young military with or without their boots. And, how expensive can a spinning globe be?  

     I refer, of course, to the assurances of an unnamed "Senior Administration Official"  who was briefing  selected media prior to the president's address (Sept 10, 2014) who explained : "ISIL has been I think a galvanizing threat around the Sunni partners in the region.  They view it as an existential threat to them.  Saudi Arabia has an extensive border with Syria.(sic).  The Jordanians....."  Of course, the other Senior Officials present and none of the media on the phone noted the geography problem, but the media did thank "the guys" for the briefing.  Link (toward the end).

    But, the good news is that we "are doing something."  Miss Lindsey can relax with a couple of mint juleps and Cheney has probably never been so relieved since Speaker Pelosi took impeachment off the table.  

    This guy is a train wreck (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 11:32:08 AM EST
    He has always been a trainwreck (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by sj on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 11:59:24 AM EST
    It boggles my mind (5.00 / 4) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:20:01 PM EST
    that people think he should run for president.

    Parent
    I know, right? (none / 0) (#57)
    by sj on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:30:29 PM EST
    I can't believe even he thinks he should run for President.

    Parent
    Oh, (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 02:55:18 PM EST
    no, it's worse than that. They think he's a better candidate than Hillary. The same people who used to always say Joe Biden D-MBNA now think he would be a great candidate.

    Parent
    Just one more thing I can put on the list (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:26:48 PM EST
    of "things I just don't get."

    Maybe someone should buy the rights to "The Daily Biden," because if he runs, there's going to be at least one gaffe per day.

    It's like he has some kind of disorder that compels him to insult the race, gender, ethnicity or religion of any group on any given day.


    Parent

    Beyond (none / 0) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:31:28 PM EST
    not "getting" is he's run a number of times before. I have decided they only think he's great now because Obama picked him for VP.

    Parent
    He would never be elected (none / 0) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:33:03 PM EST
    thank God probably, but if he did he would make Ford look like a philosopher acrobat.

    Parent
    Let's not get carried away (none / 0) (#152)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:11:48 PM EST
    Biden is currently the choice of only 10% of the Dems. That's pretty damn low as VP's go. Hillary has no competition.

    Parent
    Gosh (none / 0) (#162)
    by sj on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:27:10 PM EST
    I hope I didn't imply that he was a viable candidate. I hope I only implied that it boggled my mind that anyone considered him any sort of candidate at all. Which apparently 10% if Dems do :)

    Parent
    All the above so noted, ... (none / 0) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:49:37 PM EST
    ... Joe Biden still kicked Paul Ryan's smarmy a$$ all around that stage during the 2012 VP debate -- and Ryan is supposedly the poster boy of GOP intellectualism and Republican policy development.

    Parent
    Biden can (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by sj on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:53:40 PM EST
    say things that make this bleeding heart liberal stand up and cheer.

    Then he keeps talking.

    Parent

    I cAn do that (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:20:21 PM EST
    Doesn't mean I should run for President.

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by sj on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:34:55 PM EST
    True. Also, he doesn't make me laugh nearly as often as you do.

    Parent
    And talking, and talking, and ... (none / 0) (#172)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:47:20 PM EST
    talking.

    Parent
    Low bar (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:58:16 PM EST
    For an encore does he plan (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:30:57 PM EST
    to praise Clarence Thomas?t

    Parent
    Good News from the Rice Scandal (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:39:19 PM EST
    When the video of Ray Rice punching his now-wife Janay in the face in a casino elevator was leaked on Sept. 8, the spike in call volume to the National Domestic Violence Hotline was so intense -- up as much as 84 percent in the first few days -- the hotline was overwhelmed. Nearly half of the daily calls went unanswered.
    ...
    The notorious video involving Ravens running back Rice, this week's arrest of another NFL player Jonathan Dwyer for "head-butting" his wife -- along with Meredith Vieira's stunning revelation of a past abusive relationship, and the popularity of Twitter hashtags #WhyIStayed and #WhyILeft are all encouraging advocates who hope the ongoing publicity may save women who are still in abusive relationships.

    "Callers were saying they saw the [Rice] video and didn't want that to happen to them," Ray-Jones said. "Women said 'I'm worried he will kill me next time. I need help.'" On Friday, the hotline said the NFL will provide financial and promotional support to the organization over the next five years, which will help hire more advocates to answer calls, chats and texts from domestic violence victims.LINK



    And Some NFL Teams 'Still' Have Hearts (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:01:37 PM EST
    Read about what the Bengle's management did to help a man whose daughter was diagnosed with cancer.

    Basically, Devon Still's daughter was diagnosed with cancer, his head was not in the game, they cut him, but met with him to let him know they would keep him on the practice squad, which ensured he kept his insurance and did not have to travel.

    He's since been moved to active roster, but the Bengles organization went above and beyond to ensure his daughter gets the treatment she needs.  Going as far as donating all the money from his jersey sales to related charities.

    Just a touching story about a team that realizes a person has bigger priorities in life than football and how that team dealt with it a compassionate way.

    LINK

    Apple (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:17:34 PM EST
    I could not help but laugh at watching the news this morning.  It's been seriously raining in Houston since early yesterday, but the line for the iPhone was immense as usual.

    The streets are flooding, people getting stranded, schools cancelled, with more and more rain predicted, and yet there are people who will wait in line, even in the pouring rain for a day, to get their phone a day or two before everyone else.  Insanity.

    I will never understand it, but HERE is a guy in Australia who drops his phone before he even touches it.  I feel for him as I doubt he would have done without the cameras.  I bet he was mad as he11.

    I asked two guys in the (none / 0) (#126)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:53:28 PM EST
    pre-order, pick-up at store late this morning when was the window for selecting that option. Neither of them could answer my question, as they stated their English wasn't good enough. Most likely Eastern Europeans. I didn't ask if they came to CA to get the new phones ASAP.

    Parent
    Johnny Cash & FDR (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:46:41 PM EST
    last nights Roosevelts was great.  All about the depression.  It was interesting because I just recently went to that benefit concert for renovation of Cashs childhood home which happened to be one of those government built houses.  

    Dyess is a town in Mississippi County, Arkansas, United States. The population was 515 according to the 2000 census. Dyess was founded in 1934. Johnny Cash's biography "Man in Black" describes Dyess as a planned community built as part of President Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal program, with streets laid out in a wheel pattern. According to Dyess history, the town, which is actually a colony, was originally built as an Agricultural Cooperative Project. It was named after W.R. Dyess, who was the first Works Progress Administrator in the state of Arkansas. The main purpose of the town's administration was to give poor families a chance to start over with land that they could work toward owning.

    Cash home photos

    Also (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:07:06 PM EST
    it was great to see what government can do to help people when it wants to.  Also interesting that FDR was hated, called a communist, socialist, dictator etc etc.  
    if he had been black I'm sure he would have been Muslim and Kenyan.

    Parent
    Speaking of FDR haters, I had no idea, (none / 0) (#155)
    by caseyOR on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:14:47 PM EST
    before I started watching The Roosevelts, that Theodore Roosevelt's children harbored such intense resentment, and well, envy, toward FDR.

    I have read quite a bit about all the Roosevelts (one-time history major), and this is the first I have heard of this animosity toward FDR. Teddy's kids were pretty nasty about it, too.

    Parent

    FDR changed his will (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:42:48 PM EST
    so that his former secretary, Marguerite(Missy) LeHand, would have the support she would need as an invalid with no job or other source of income after she had a stroke in 1941, even at the cost of most of his estate going to her as a result.  As she died before he did, the issue became moot and forgotten about after he had passed away.

    I've always liked him for that.

    Parent

    I'm learning a lot (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:17:30 PM EST
    from that series

    Parent
    No one captures inanity like Colbert (5.00 / 3) (#160)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:24:21 PM EST
    Union Jacks (none / 0) (#5)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 07:55:52 AM EST
    A lot of Union Jacks around the world are happy today.

    Lieberman is a pious hypocrite (none / 0) (#13)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:37:06 AM EST
    Who now is a lobbyist even though he had stated previously that he wouldn't be.  

    At least he still takes Saturdays off........."

    His sabbath is friom (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:47:46 AM EST
    Friday evening until Saturday evening.

    Other than that, I agree with you that he is a hypocrite playing the part of a pious person.

    Parent

    Really? (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 08:58:37 AM EST
    He was a politician. Politicians represent their constituents, and change their positions as needed. And now he is a salesman not much different... telling people what they want to hear is the trade.

    All politicians are hypocrites by definition. Hypocrisy is really not relevant, imo. as disgusting as he is as a human being.


    Parent

    He made a promise about his post-Senate (none / 0) (#143)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:44:39 PM EST
    activities and broke it, pure and simple.  I guess I expect my politicians not to be so blatant about it as Holy Joe.

    Parent
    Promise? (none / 0) (#148)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:58:42 PM EST
    Well a reporter asked him and he said he was not going to do that.

    I would hardly call that a promise, and even if he did promise, why would anyone ever believe a politician, and particularly a politician who is going to be out of politics in less than two months.

    If you believe politicians promises you are going to be very disappointed on a regular basis.

    Parent

    Better liars, pls! (none / 0) (#165)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:33:46 PM EST
    110% Effort (none / 0) (#20)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 09:09:03 AM EST
    Well atleast the Scots left it all on the field -- giving a full 110% effort:

    CNN math geniuses report

    iOS 8 users .... (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 09:54:38 AM EST
    are you finding it's slower ?

    In a word...no (none / 0) (#29)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 10:26:45 AM EST
    since my computers are 10.9.5 and my iPhone is 7.1.2.  You must be speaking about the iPads which I don't have.

    Parent
    I'm hoping it gets better (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 10:31:59 AM EST
    but definitely slower iPad.  Especially, but not only, FaceBook
    I like some of the features.

    Parent
    How do you like the predictive typing? (none / 0) (#55)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:24:24 PM EST
    I like it, but it can be a little annoying seeing the words jumping around in the top of my field of vision. I'll see if the advantages are worth it, and hide it if not.

    Parent
    I like it (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:33:44 PM EST
    and I like the added security.  I keep hoping it will settle down and get better.  Will wait a day or so.

    Parent
    I heard the older devices (none / 0) (#48)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:15:04 PM EST
    are definitely having a hard time. The blog I read recommended that if you are not at least on an iPhone 5, do not do the upgrade. I am fine on my i5.

    Parent
    Only using it on my iPad (none / 0) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:18:36 PM EST
    which is only a few months old.  It's really pi$$ing me off.
    About half the time I try to access FaceBook it just freezes up for about 5 minutes.

    Parent
    I think that is a Facebook issue. I have (none / 0) (#54)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:22:06 PM EST
    always had that happen with Facebook on my phone. Super slow.

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:28:09 PM EST
    googling it's all over the web.  They are saying roll back while you still can.  Just found a link with instructions and links

    Parent
    PSA (none / 0) (#52)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:21:18 PM EST
    A question about iOS 8. (none / 0) (#65)
    by caseyOR on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 01:33:36 PM EST
    About this new encryption-- if I understood the comments in the last Open Thread, people were saying that the encryption only works if you store your info on Apple's cloud.

    But. . . I read somewhere, and I cannot find it right now, that the encryption does not protect the phone's user from a police search if your info is on the Cloud, only if you keep the info on your phone alone.

    And the reason is that once it is on the Cloud the info is on Apple servers which they must make available to law enforcement.

    So, which is it? Store your stuff on the Cloud or keep everything on the iPhone only?

    Parent

    If you back up your phone/pad, etc. on iCloud (none / 0) (#73)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 02:23:29 PM EST
    the information will be accessible by Apple because it is on their servers.  If you do not back up on iCloud it will not be acccessible.

    Parent
    Howdy is there a maintenance app (none / 0) (#85)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:25:00 PM EST
    on iPads like the Apple computers have?  On the computers it's called Disc Utility and it performs a variety of services including the proper way to burn video DVD's which is the main reason I don't have an iPad.  Also your iPad could be full of info unless you have one with a large GHz capability.  You may need to delete stored info in order to speed things up.  If iPads have cookies delete them and at first, at least with computers, things will be a bit slow until the cookies you really need reappear.  Just this morning the NYT said I had used my ten free editions for the month so I dumped all my cookies and can now read ten more articles.  Hope this helps.

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:30:22 PM EST
    But no.  None of that.   Have to say this is approaching a Microsoft level clusterf@ck.  it eventually got, after I downloaded a FaceBook "update", that I could not access FB at all.  Crash crash crash. So I tried accessing it through the browser instead of the app and it would not take my password.
    So
    After changing my password and accessing it through the browser it seems to be ok now.   It no longer seems to lock up on trying to access FB.

    Hopes this helps someone else.

    Parent

    Just So you know I'm not alone (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:01:27 PM EST
     bob Keenan
    Level 1 Level 1
    (25 points)
    bob Keenan
    Sep 18, 2014 8:46 AM
    Just loaded iOS 8 on my iPad 3. I like the new features. But it's really slowing down my iPad. I really notice it on webpages. But applications are slow to load as well.anyone have any ideas on how to improve this other than buying the most recent iPad.

    iPad (3rd gen) Wi-Fi, iOS 6.1.4
    I have this question too Show 22 Likes (22)
     tom.goecke
    Level 1 Level 1
    (0 points)
    tom.goecke
    Sep 18, 2014 11:20 AM
    Re: iOS 8 is slow on my iPad 3
    in response to bob Keenan
    even double clicking on the home button delays approx  1.5 secs.
    Totally disappointing,!!
    Like Show 1 Like (1)
     olteanra
    Level 1 Level 1
    (0 points)
    olteanra
    Sep 18, 2014 1:52 PM
    Re: iOS 8 is slow on my iPad 3
    in response to bob Keenan
    Rollback to iOS 7.1.2 while you still can! Just did it myself and I'm very happy to be back. Won't update to iOS 8 again, either on my iPad 3 or on my iPhone 5, until I have confirmation that it works flawlessly and it's not any slower than iOS 7. I can do without all those new features in iOS 8. What I can't deal with is a laggy OS that will drive me crazy all the time. It's a shame what has become of Apple since Steve passed away. You wouldn't have seen crappy releases like these back in the day. He would have whip lashed anyone who would have even thought about releasing something that wasn't perfect. Now every time a new major version is released, everyone expects it not to work properly on anything else but the latest devices. And only after three other minor releases does it become acceptable. Best of luck!
    Like Show 0 Likes (0)

    Parent

    Darren Wilson Grand Jury (none / 0) (#33)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 10:50:23 AM EST
    Lisa Bloom interview

    What's going on???

    Charlie Pierce on McCullough's handling of GJ (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 01:48:12 PM EST
    This sounds very much like a document dump, the way a government agency can drown reporters on paperwork on Friday so the haystack gets higher as the needle shrinks. The grand jury here essentially is working without the kind of direction it would normally get from a prosecutor's office. You can believe that this is an accident. Or you can decide not to believe it's an accident. I choose the latter course. So, to an extent, does Dana Milbank, who's crackling a bit with outrage, and good for him. The local prosecutor, Bob McCulloch, is so fairly bristling with conflicts of interest that his entire office should be recused in favor of a special prosecutor. He's got a long and sordid history of burying police misconduct. He's got a personal history that would lead you to doubt his credibility in such matters. And now, he's running a grand jury that doesn't have an index or a table of contents to guide it through a mass of evidence.

    What does McCulloch suppose will happen if he stays on the job, and if the grand jury no-bills Wilson on his watch? What does McCulloch suppose will happen if he presides over a process that is so riven with special exceptions that it looks as though it were rigged from jump? Even if the Feds step in, the community isn't going to buy a local investigation that ends up like that. It's almost as though somebody down there is operating from a playbook written in 1917. If you don't want violence, then you don't let a grand jury like this run on automatic pilot. Can people down there please stop making simple mistakes that have such complicated consequences? link



    Parent
    Either the prosecutor (none / 0) (#104)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:00:03 PM EST
    is cherry-picking which evidence to present to the grand jury. Or the prosecutor is not guiding the grand jury but, instead, leaving the grand jurors to their own devices. McCullough is in a lose-lose situation here.

    Parent
    Lose-lose? (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:29:49 PM EST
    just an idea but he might consider doing the right thing in that case

    Parent
    Is the only "right choice" (none / 0) (#123)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:47:43 PM EST
    In this particular case, in your opinion, for the elected prosecutor for St. Louis County to recuse his office entirely?

    Parent
    That would have been (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:50:14 PM EST
    one right choice.  Personally it seems to me if he had any interest at all in the process appearing fair, it was the only choice.  


    Parent
    I don't really believe (none / 0) (#127)
    by sj on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:56:46 PM EST
    in binary choices (outside of software development) but at this point maybe that is the only way to recover some credibility. He could have done the right thing from the beginning but that doesn't really fit with his history, and anything else would be too little too late.

    I concede that my imagination as to his possible next steps is limited so he could possibly surprise me. I am dubious that it would be a pleasant surprise.

    Parent

    Wilson will walk (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:01:37 PM EST
    STL will explode.  Clearly everyone expect it, is resigned to and prepared for it.

    Parent
    Very short-sghted if that happens b/4 the public (none / 0) (#168)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:36:23 PM EST
    is privy to tjphe officer-involved shooting investigation.

    Parent
    Don't see it as an either or situation (5.00 / 3) (#149)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:59:44 PM EST
    IMO he is doing both. Cherry picking the information so that it supports Wilson's version of events and then refusing to make a recommendation after the jury has been guided in the direction he wants it to go.

    Parent
    Agreed (none / 0) (#109)
    by sj on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:13:32 PM EST
    but it is a lose-lose situation of his own making.

    Parent
    We knew they were rotten to the core. (none / 0) (#38)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 11:02:15 AM EST
    But, to not even try, and, come up with a pretext of doing justice is just mind boggling.

    Parent
    Interview with tree worker (none / 0) (#42)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 11:35:32 AM EST
    At the 1:00 mark he says 3 officers are on the scene as Brown turns around and says OK OK OK and then one of the officers fires at him

    FPD says the 2nd unit arrived 8 seconds after final shot but they have never released the police dispatch or 911 tapes and have lied throughout.

    Were these other 2 officers already on the scene and Wilson knew it and thus he had nothing to fear from Brown just before he shot him???

    Is this what they are hiding here???

    The yellow tape went up pretty fast after the shooting.

    Parent

    Hey, maybe, just maybe, there were 2 other (none / 0) (#43)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 11:42:12 AM EST
    po po on the scene and one of ThEM shot Brown. Maybe THAT is what they are hiding here???!!!

    Parent
    I guess the first question I would ask is, (none / 0) (#49)
    by leftwig on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:15:36 PM EST
    how reliable is this witness?  I am not suggesting he is any more or any less reliable than others, but I've not seen another witness state that there were 3 officers chasing Brown and present when any of the shots were fired.  My guess is that he's mistaken and probaly the other officers were there quickly enough that he is assuming they were all invovled in the chase, but unless all other witnesses are wrong, Wilson was the only officer present when the shooting occurred.

    Not sure I agree with the statement that other officers being present would mean Wilson had nothing to fear.  

    Parent

    The reason you haven't seen any (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:42:41 PM EST
    witness state that there were 3 officers chasing Brown is because "already on the scene" does not have to equate to "chasing Brown."

    I don't know whether you see words that aren't there, or just change them so you can make the response you want, but I have to say that it's beyond annoying the way you keep doing it.


    Parent

    Let's face it, Anne (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 01:06:32 PM EST
    He (or she) is not the only one around here who routinely "responds" to what they want to respond to, rather than the actual content of the comment.
    And I think we can all name the others who do this.   ;-)

    Parent
    To be fair, of the many witnesses who have (none / 0) (#64)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 01:32:05 PM EST
    come forth into the public eye, did any of them say there were other officers "already on the scene" when Wilson shot Brown?

    Parent
    It wasn't my intention to support or (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 02:15:07 PM EST
    refute whether other officers were already on the scene, but to make clear that being on the scene does not necessarily translate to chasing Michael Brown,k which is what leftwig did with Uncle Chip's comment.

    If I write about apples, and you choose to make it about oranges in order to make a point, we're probably not talking about the same thing, are we?

    That tends to be lefwig's MO, and it's annoying.

    Parent

    Fair enough. (none / 0) (#80)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:02:58 PM EST
    For me what is important is separating facts from conjecture and/or wild-a$$ redonkulous claims.

    My interest is mostly in discussing the facts.

    So, as it appears this claim of two other officers being on the scene when Wilson shot Brown is not factual, I'll bow out now.

    Parent

    How reliable is this witness? (none / 0) (#67)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 01:38:45 PM EST
    Well thanks to the Conservative Treehouse we have this picture of the vantage point the workers had from the trees that they were working on at the time:

    trees workers were cutting down relative to scene of the crime

    And they were indeed within 50 feet --  

    Parent

    DON'T listen to Lisa Bloom (none / 0) (#61)
    by RickyJim on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 01:06:13 PM EST
    She wrote a garbage book on the Zimmerman case claiming that the latter was guilty of murder and in the Brown case she is is all, "Rah. Rah Rah, let's indict Wilson".  She makes the assumption that if the DA chose to go by preliminary hearing route, after filing charges himself, the judge would rubber stamp the indictment in a day and they could arrest Wilson and go to trial.  Preliminary hearings can take weeks if the defense lawyer contests the validity of presented evidence.  I am sure that Alan Dershowitz would not agree with her that the district attorney should act as a "victim's advocate", not a truth seeker.

    Parent
    I live in a city that is adjacent to Ferguson (none / 0) (#70)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 02:07:24 PM EST
    During the Mayor's Breakfast yesterday, our police chief fairly obviously indicated that they expect the Gj not to indict and they anticipate more violence not just in Ferguson but throughout the north county area and in Clayton where the the Grand Jury hearings are held.

    He did a splendid job of preconditioning the audience to support whatever force the police decide to use if this occurs by leading off with the stories of two residents of our city who were shot in sometime in the past by black people. Of course neither of these people were shot by Michael Brown, shot in the City of Ferguson or by anyone living in Ferguson.

    He followed by stories on how violent the protesters were and how the police restrained themselves admirably.    

     

    Parent

    I Don't That it's Worth Discussing... (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 02:52:57 PM EST
    ...in that there is no way in he11, no matter what happened that day, Wilson will never be convicted or plead to anything more than a misdemeanor.  And even that would surprise me.

    When Wilson's statement about what happened has not been released, yet half the country has decided he did nothing wrong, well there isn't much chance of a conviction. IMO.

    You always here notion about a prosecutor being able to indict a ham sandwich, well I wonder if that also means they can ensure a man/woman in blue walks every time.

    Parent

    Frankly, I am sadden by the assumption (none / 0) (#135)
    by Palli on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:21:15 PM EST
    from most people here that there will be no indictment. The energetic message we should all be screaming is: There must be an indictment.  Missouri is part of the US, all American residents have an imperative to message this to St. Louis County. The Fergusons of our nation have been ignore and overlooked for too long. We are all Fergusons.

    If St. Louis County and their municipalities think we are caring: tell them differently. And if your assumptions become reality, then the Missouri demonstrators should be joined by legions of us from everywhere in the nation.  See what the police tanks will do a crowd of thousands. We need more Rachel Corries.

    Parent

    You know what (none / 0) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:28:53 PM EST
    your "passion" is admirable I guess.  But you condescension to those of us who have a more realistic view is tiresome.

    Parent
    This is exactly what I fear (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Palli on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:07:21 PM EST
    this heady talk about riots-even from liberals enraged by police killings-threatening riots. Demonstrations (which will no doubt occur if the Grand Jury does not indict) are not riots. Demonstrations become riots when cops abuse peoples right to assemble...when cops decide that order is only their order which comes from total subjugation to their power.

    Parent
    You can call it what you like (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:11:41 PM EST
    it won't change what happens to people who attend.  The police are preparing for riots.  So of course there will be riots.  That's not "heady talk".  It's a fact.

    Parent
    The word is important (none / 0) (#138)
    by Palli on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:30:34 PM EST
    people don't assemble together to riot.  Cops know it too. But because the constitution prohibits "interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances" they have to make a riot.

    If you fall into cop talk and begin with "riot" you disrespect the people's purpose.  

    Parent

    What the hell are you talking about (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:35:23 PM EST
    you were the first person to use the word riot.

    Parent
    No, you said first: (none / 0) (#153)
    by Palli on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:13:23 PM EST
    " STL will explode." [is that code for riot?]  Clearly everyone expect it, is resigned to and prepared for it."

    I know a lot of people who are not resigned to it.

    ...Your flat pronouncement about other peoples' behavior isn't talk from a high horse?
    Sorry, I've had enough, this angle is not productive.  

    Wish us good hope at least.

    Parent

    So (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:15:13 PM EST
    no trip to Ferguson then.

    Parent
    I think you are both saying (none / 0) (#141)
    by sj on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:37:23 PM EST
    essentially the same thing.

    Parent
    Except I am not (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:38:48 PM EST
    condescending from a high horse

    Parent
    Oh, ugh. (none / 0) (#74)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 02:41:12 PM EST
    Not surprising, though.
    I grew up in North St. Louis County, still occasionally visit relatives in the general area, and this attitude does not surprise me.
    Sadly.   :-(

    Parent
    Well it's time to go beyond (none / 0) (#79)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:01:27 PM EST
    just protesting and VOTE in the upcoming election.

    Since McCulloch is running unopposed for PA then write in Mike Brown's name if nothing else just for effect.

    And since Stenger is attached at the hip with McCulloch, then vote for his opponent for County Supervisor -- Rick Stream.

    I heard Stream say that he has submitted legislation in the Missouri Capitol that would require a Special Prosecutor be appointed in the event of a police officer involved shooting. That's what needs to happen.

    The votes of the people of Ferguson might make all the difference in that election.

    Parent

    Could not agree more. (none / 0) (#81)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:04:21 PM EST
    MO, you gotta get outta' that place (none / 0) (#128)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:57:00 PM EST
    if it's the last thing you ever do and come down here and catch some fish.  It's finally starting to cool a bit...I think.  It's all the way down to 85 degrees today.

    Parent
    Not much on catching fish (5.00 / 3) (#158)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:15:57 PM EST
     but I'm extremely talented at riding on a boat, any type of boat. ;o) Probably could make up some fish stories but nothing quite as good as your fins on the plane.

    Parent
    Well good MO since (none / 0) (#173)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:50:25 PM EST
    there are at least five tropical restaurants that I visit by boat.

    Parent
    Just finished watching the Bill Clinton... (none / 0) (#60)
    by magster on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 12:57:39 PM EST
    extended interview on TDS last night. He might not have been our best modern president, but he's the smartest.

    I wish he had thought enough (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 02:53:24 PM EST
    of himself to know he was smarter than Greenspan, Rubin, Summers, and the rest of their henchmen..

    That was a case, to paraphrase Dante, when the cold-blooded were allowed overrule the warm-hearted.

    Parent

    What did Quint say... (none / 0) (#83)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:08:20 PM EST
    about the shark?  "He's either very very smart or very very dumb."

    Parent
    Not Sure About... (none / 0) (#78)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 02:59:49 PM EST
    ...best modern President, but so far best in my lifetime, by far.

    But that is not exactly a high bar when you consider the competition, Reagan, two Bushs, and an Obama.

    Reagan took office when I was 10.

    Parent

    not exactly a high bar indeed.. (none / 0) (#99)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 03:45:07 PM EST
    and they still practically worship Reagan..

    Personally, I don't think Clinton was even the smartest Dem running for President that year. Mario Cuomo was.

    Parent

    If he's so smart (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 04:47:47 PM EST
    why didn't he run?  Humm?

    Parent
    Speaking of running (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:24:06 PM EST
    I gotta' go the Rev is on and next Tweety Bird.  Yep just a couple of secrets of my fount of knowledge.

    Parent
    CaptHowdy...and fatalism is tiresome too. (none / 0) (#147)
    by Palli on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 05:56:26 PM EST
    Condescension is a strong word to attach to my plea.

    "Passion" is what Ferguson demonstrators have and will continue to have.  Passion is what all civil rights demonstrations grow from and nurture. If African Americans can still believe and insist on just change, despite 360 years of life in this troubled land, then so should others, especially those who have enjoyed the privileges of America longer.
    If a no bill comes down...can't you imagine the cops facing hundreds of Americans holding signs from the 4 corners of America joining together in Ferguson proclaiming the right to demonstrate and redress?
    Passion does not preclude reality...but that reality has not happened yet.  

    So (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:01:03 PM EST
    are you planning a trip to Ferguson?

    Parent
    YES (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Palli on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:15:26 PM EST
    To celebrate (none / 0) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:25:20 PM EST
    since we are expecting an indictment?

    Look I'm not interested in fighting with you.  I probably agree with you most of the time.  But I lived in STL for many years.  moBlue lives there now.  Discussing what is almost certainly going to happen is not wishing it would happen.  If that offends your sensibilities you won't find much happiness here.  It's a pretty realistic place.

    As D says

    Aloha

    Parent

    Don't want to argue either (none / 0) (#166)
    by Palli on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:34:16 PM EST
    But, I helped to integrate Houston public schools so I'm tempered...and I'm tired of this shit and need to do something, believe something.  The nation is going to crap just when minorities are getting a crack at the possibilities...that stinks.

    Parent
    I'm sure no one here would say (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 at 06:46:22 PM EST
    i am tempered.  I have great difficulty defending positions.
    (Snark)
    I also lived on Hoiston for several years.  IMO STL is in a far worse place when it comes to race relations.
    I believe that even more because of recent events.
    I was horrified at the denial and projection of many people in the area - I am in touch with many in that area, I still live a couple of hours away - when this broke.  I shed several FB friends and probably sadly lost some real ones.  People I have know since the 70s.
    I am very concerned about what happens next.
    I join you in hoping for the best but I am not optimistic.  

    Fwiw I may take a road trip myself.  Lots of friends there to stay with.

    Parent