home

Obama Wins the Ignatius Primary By Getting Punked On Iraq

Obama supporters have complained bitterly about Left Blog criticism of Obama being punked by Bush on Iraq. Do you think they are going to complain about David Ignatius taking the same "AP falsehood" and pouring some love on Obama for it?

A glimmer of hope that U.S. politicians haven't all lost their minds was a statement this week by Barack Obama challenging his party's extreme wing. "I think that nobody wants to play chicken with our troops on the ground," he said in an interview with the Associated Press. "I don't think that we will see a majority of the Senate vote to cut off funding at this stage."

Well Obama supporters, any outrage at Ignatius? He reaches the same factual conclusion on the AP story, but likes Obama getting punked. Some of us do not like it. Ignatius thinksa this is a good time for pushback not against Bush but against the Left:

If Obama is in fact ready to challenge his party's most partisan activists, perhaps he is a man who can meet Hamilton's test [of Beltway Broderism BS "Bipartisanship.]

Ignatius is a Beltway Idiot of longstanding. That he thinks these ridiculous things is not new. Is this now Obama's target audience?

< What is the "Progressive Netroots"? | Obama Bags $25 Million >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    i think i'm confused (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by cpinva on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 09:34:03 AM EST
    wanting to get our troops out of harm's way now constitutes "playing chicken" with them? it must be the "new english".

    ignatius is, and has been for some time, an idiot. of course, if that's truly obama's target audience, then he should win by a landslide. no one ever lost money or elections, by underestimating the intelligence of the american voting public.

    I'm afraid it is his target audience (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Same As It Ever Was on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 09:54:48 AM EST
    Obama has proven himself more than a lightweight, but a purveyor of tired old approached to Democratic politics which lead only to defeat.  I hoped he would be different.  Disappointing.

    Reid chose a good week (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by andgarden on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 09:59:30 AM EST
    to change the parameters of the debate. It isn't too difficult to wish that he'd started before the Supplemental battle started, though.

    What part of this is difficult (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Elise on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 10:05:46 AM EST
    to understand?

    AP article, April 2, 2007:

       The House and Senate recently passed Iraq war spending bills that include timetables for withdrawing troops from Iraq but President Bush has promised to veto the measure. While rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton challenged Bush to work with Congress instead of vetoing the bill, Obama appeared to consider the veto a done deal.

        "When he vetoes that bill, we are going to have to go back and say what are the other ways we can ratchet up the pressure on the president," he said. "There are a whole range of options. We could say, OK, we're going to fund the war in three-month increments and keep you on a shorter leash, or we're going to try to constrain you and let you veto the bill again."

    How is this a position that bows to Bush exactly? Making Bush come back for funding votes every three months? Seems like a smart move to me. Make the Republicans own this war, make them own it every three months. Make Bush attempt to justify that things are "on the right track" in Iraq...over and over again.

    And...why in the world would you imply that Obama is attempting to impress a moron. We wouldn't agree with Ignatius's reading of any other event in a given week, why would we agree with this one?

    Hi Elise (none / 0) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 10:09:34 AM EST
    David Ignatius quoted some other portion.

    I have quoted Obama on this from two separate months.

    But here is the4 question, hbow come Obama is so susceptible to being misinterpreted by Kos AND Ignatius?

    Why is that possible?

    I challenge you to do something. I challenge you to ask Obama to denounce what Ignatius wrote.

    If Ignatius is wrong why won;t Obama say so?

    IS it possible that YOU are misunderstanding him?

    Parent

    Can you explain this (none / 0) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 10:11:52 AM EST
    this?

    I have concerns about cutting off funding . . . I think there is a possibility, given how obstinate the Administration is, that if we try to cut off funding, Bush is hellbent on doing what he is doing . . . he may decide to play chicken and say 'you guys do whatever you want [I'm keeping the troops there]' .


    Parent
    Hi BTD...sorry this is long... (none / 0) (#7)
    by Elise on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 10:53:42 AM EST
    I can explain...or I can offer my interpretation at least:

    I believe what Obama and Webb are attempting to do here is offer a "middle position" that centrists can be comfortable with on the surface. And despite the fact that I'm not always pleased with the attempt to do that, I understand that that's what needs to be done if we're going to move the majority of Americans to our side and to a more "left" position on Iraq.

    Here's how I view the situation--

    We have the symbolic "left" position represented by Feingold in the Senate and by the Progressive caucus in the House...those who stood their ground and voted against the Supplemental.

    We have the Blue Dogs who are the "right" position (within our party) who are hesitant to set a date to cut funding for several reasons...one reason is that they live in districts where they won by less than 2% of the vote and many of those districts are VERY conservative- with a PVI of up to R+17. Moving any further to the left (without HUGE support for that move in their districts) will paint them as anti-war liberals and we will lose those districts...and with them, most of our majority. I'd prefer to build on that instead of losing it. So I'd prefer we work to convince those voters in their districts to move to the left.

    In between we have a center. A group that is hesitant to withdraw troops now for fear of the consequences (what will be left behind in Iraq), but who also knows that we MUST withdraw the troops because what's happening now in Iraq is unacceptable and it isn't going to get any better. This is where the vast majority of Americans are. There is great nervousness when we talk here in the "Heartland" (I'm in Southern Illinois...45 minutes from Missouri, 45 minutes from Kentucky, and an hour or so from Indiana) about pulling out the troops right away. The automatic response is one of fear. Not just for the troops as they leave, but for the Iraqi people, and fear of terrorism- fear of Al Qaeda. We've talked about pulling out troops for their safety. People are on board with that. Everyone wants their kids home. What they aren't on board with is leaving Iraq a disaster and having Al Qaeda come in and use it as a breeding/training ground for more terrorism.

    Obama (and Webb here) are attempting to fill this position, I believe. But while they attempt to fill this position, all three groups on the Democratic spectrum, left, right, and center-- have one specific agenda in common and that it to make Bush own this war. To make him OWN how he treats the troops. To show that he's willing, regardless of what the vast majority of Americans want...even if Congress has acted incredibly thoughtfully (i.e. the Obama position, we can call it)...that Bush will continue to jeopardize the lives of our troops. That he will attempt to leave them there without funding.

    This doesn't reflect badly on Obama...or on any Democrat. The goal of this statement is to show how thoroughly thoughtless and careless Bush is with the lives of our soldiers. The more we show that to those folks in conservative areas, the more likely they will be to distrust Bush...the more likely they start to see that Blue Dog position, or even that Obama position, or hey, maybe even that "left" position as a viable option.

    Does this please me 100%? No. But I understand the strategy...and I think it's a good one. And if it works we not only get our troops home, we add to the number of people who firmly believe that Democrats are better on National Security...and we prove that the Republican party doesn't care about our troops. Period.


    Parent

    The strategy is utterly stupid (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 04:09:35 PM EST
    not to mention morally bereft:

    Obama (and Webb here) are attempting to fill this position, I believe. But while they attempt to fill this position, all three groups on the Democratic spectrum, left, right, and center-- have one specific agenda in common and that it to make Bush own this war. To make him OWN how he treats the troops. To show that he's willing, regardless of what the vast majority of Americans want...even if Congress has acted incredibly thoughtfully (i.e. the Obama position, we can call it)...that Bush will continue to jeopardize the lives of our troops.

    Barack Obama will own this war as this rate.

    Frankly, if that is what he is thinking then he is a political idiot. I'm beginning to suspect that is so.


    Parent

    Well, you can think it's stupid (none / 0) (#11)
    by Elise on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 06:33:40 PM EST
    all you want, but I've talked to about 6 Republicans in the last 3 days that would vote for the man if he wins the nomination...despite the fact that he's pro-choice and votes the opposite of what they'd like him to vote 95% of the time. And a few of these folks are die-hards about staying in Iraq until we've "won"...and in the last two weeks they've started to move to the Blue Dog position.

    Honestly, I'm left...and I can count the number of times on one hand that Obama has voted a way I wouldn't have liked him to...so the fact that there are Republicans willing to vote for him shows me that his strategy, like it or not, is apparently working.

    And sure...these are anecdotal examples, but I hear more of them all the time...eventually they start adding up.

    Parent

    Obama Trails Giuliani and McCain (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 07:41:47 PM EST
    in every poll.

    These anecdotes are just such nonsense.

    Parent

    Neither of whom (none / 0) (#15)
    by Elise on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 07:58:46 PM EST
    will win the Republican nomination... both of whom Obama trounced in fundraising this quarter.

    Obama is quickly becoming the "bipartisan" candidate...and frankly, I'm happy with that because he's liberal, and as a result I think this will move everyone to the left.

    I get that you don't like him...I can't change that.

    Parent

    His polling gets weaker (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 08:07:49 PM EST
    as his fundraising matches Hillary.

    Peas ina pod.

    Parent

    Hillary...who added 10 million (none / 0) (#17)
    by Elise on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 08:16:23 PM EST
    of her Senate money in order to match Obama's numbers? Had fewer donors, and has less money for the primary?

    Sorry A...I think it's clear that Obama is going places...

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 08:27:39 PM EST
    Hillary adds 11 to get to 36 million Elise. Obama is at 25.

    Obama is weaker in the polls. These are facts.

    You want to ignore the facts, that's on you.

    Parent

    Were these three examples in So. IL? (none / 0) (#13)
    by oculus on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 07:44:39 PM EST
    asdf (none / 0) (#14)
    by Elise on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 07:56:38 PM EST
    Two of these folks are Southern Illinoisans...2 are from Kentucky and 2 are from Missouri. In other words, not just the Illinois factor. And one of the guys who is from Illinois didn't vote for Obama when he ran for Senate...but DID vote for Keyes...I think that says a lot.

    Parent
    Interesting. My mother grew up in Metropolis, IL. (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 12:28:06 PM EST
    I cannot imagine her ever voting for an African-American.  Times have surely changed.

    Parent
    That's April 2 backtracking from the April 1 (none / 0) (#19)
    by fairleft on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 02:59:08 AM EST
    foot in the mouth stuff.

    Parent
    Elise, isn't there some kind of word limit here? (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by oculus on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 02:50:19 PM EST


    I may be the only one (none / 0) (#9)
    by Alien Abductee on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 03:11:10 PM EST
    but I don't think that Obama statement on the weekend was too much to get upset about. I think he has a (bad) habit of occasionally musing out loud about what he's seeing as the lay of the land, but without it having any significance for his personal position. It's a habit he'd better cure himself of, with all the entrail readers poring over his every word. He's got to be strategic and on point with what he says publicly all the time now. It's a matter of his still-not-quite-there political maturity and experience rather than his non-progressiveness, IMO.