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Supreme Court Hears Search Case Involving Passengers

The Supreme Court today heard oral argument in a case that will decide whether a passenger, as well as the driver, has been seized for 4th Amendment purposes during a traffic stop.

The question of whether a “reasonable” passenger would feel free to leave was significant because that perception is a principal part of the court’s test for whether a “seizure” has taken place within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures.

If a reasonable person would not feel constrained, then he or she has not been “seized” and has no basis for complaining that the police have violated the Fourth Amendment. The converse is also true: a person who reasonably feels detained by the police is entitled to challenge the validity of the police action and perhaps to keep illegally seized evidence out of court.

Thanks to Justice Souter for pointing this out:

More...

When [Deputy Attorney General]Zall referred to “the pervasiveness and commonplace nature of a routine traffic stop,” Justice David H. Souter interrupted him in an incredulous tone. “Have you ever been subject to a traffic stop?” Justice Souter asked.

“Tell the truth now,” Justice Antonin Scalia interjected.

“Yes, yes I have,” Mr. Zall replied.

“O.K.,” Justice Souter said. “The heart rate went up. The blood pressure went up.”

According to the Times,

A majority of the justices indicated their belief that the passenger as well as the driver was seized.

You can read the entire oral argument transcript here (pdf).

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  • Display: Sort:
    If the court really wants (none / 0) (#1)
    by Deconstructionist on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 08:51:16 AM EST
    a "bright line" rule, I think it has to be that a passenger is seized when the vehicle is stopped.  
    "Reasonable person" tests are as Breyer alluded often "fancying up" of what a justice thinks.  Despite the problems with that such analysis, I think it's a sure thing the supposedly objective "reasonable person" analysis will continue to be followed as neither side is even suggesting it should be otherwise.

      the problem with having both a "bright line" rule and "reasonable person" analysis is they don't always mesh. One could hypothesize situations where  a passenger would feel free to leave (e.g., the car is stopped right in front of the passenger's house and the cop says "leave.") but in the vast majority of cases a person riding in a car clearly does not feel free to leave. Of course, it is more complicated than just that, because does the person not feel free to leave because of the perception  governmental compulsion or just because leaving is often not a practical alternative?

      This particular case seems an odd choice for the Court to take up the issue because it is factually multifaceted  both because of the arguably independent justification for the search (an outstanding warrant which arguably would make the search of his person a legal search incident to arrest) and because if the passenger has hidden contraband in someone else's car he probably has no standing to challenge that seizure even if his person has been seized illegally.

      It would seem to me that he can only successfully argue that anye contraband taken from his person must be suppressed and even that only if he can convince the court that what would otherwise be a legal search of his person incident to arrest is so tainted by the illegal initial stop (assuming it is held to be an illegal seizure of his person) and the lack of attenuation between the stop and the arrest requires suppression under the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine.

     

    double-edged sword? (none / 0) (#2)
    by lawstudent on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 09:02:19 AM EST
    Considering the Court only hears so many cases a year, I really cannot believe they have actually found this issue important enough to speak on.  (One can only hope that they have granted cert here to clarify for the lower courts who have suggested a passenger is not seized that they are indeed wrong.)  

    Here's what I see to be the major flaw in any court's reasoning that a passenger is not seized.  If a police officer pulls over a car and the passenger (supposedly) feels free to leave, what do you think would happen if he went on his merry way?  Imagine this scenario: a police officer gets a call that a red Honda with two passengers just executed a drug deal and is driving south on the freeway.  The officer spots a red Honda with two passengers heading south on the freeway.  The car is stopped, and the passenger says, "I'm not seized, just the driver.  See ya!"  I would think an officer might have new grounds for a Terry frisk of the passenger in that situation.  So even if you're technically in the clear at the time of the stop, once you TRY to leave, you may arouse new suspicions in the officer that rise to the level of Terry.

    There is also the problem of what happens when a car is stopped on the highway in the middle of the night (not an uncommon occurrence).  Does the passenger really feel free to leave?  Where does he go?

    The issue is important (none / 0) (#3)
    by Deconstructionist on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 09:13:37 AM EST
     although I too  wonder why this case was chosen to decide it.

      I don't think your scenario holds water. Simply  leaving when it is lawful to do so would not standing alone be a reasonably articulable suspicion to justify even a brief Terry stop. Unless the RAS existed prior to the passenger attempting to leave I think any detention, however brief, based on the justification he sought to leave  would be found unreasonable and unlawful. I think the product of any search would have to be suppressed.

     

    Parent

    Having actually been in this situation ... (none / 0) (#4)
    by Sailor on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 09:25:57 AM EST
    ... I can tell you the cops do not allow you to leave. and they get very upset if you try to.

    Parent
    Yes, but ... (none / 0) (#5)
    by Deconstructionist on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 09:29:42 AM EST
     that would settle the question. If a person tries to leave and is prevented then there is no question that he was in fact not free to leave and we need not even resort to divining the perceptions of the mythical "reasonable person."

      Then,  unless a court found the cops did have reasonable grounds to detain and search you, the fruits of any search would have to be suppressed.

    Parent

    this is why the rule makes no sense (none / 0) (#6)
    by lawstudent on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 09:44:46 AM EST
    There was a reason that I titled my previous post "Double-edged sword."  As the argument for the state in this case goes, you are free to leave as the passenger until the officer asserts his authority over you (which would then constitute a seizure).  When the car is stopped, the authority is only asserted over the car and the driver.  But, as "Sailor" has stated, if you try to leave, you will find that you are, indeed, not free to leave.  At this point, the officer will assert his/her authority over you.  Therefore, the argument falls apart.  You are free to leave, but once you try to leave, you are no longer free to leave!  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    And to top it all off, there are so many different factual scenarios under which this could play out.  Stopping a car in the middle of the night on the highway vs. stopping the car in broad daylight near the passenger's house.  Stopping the car on the basis of a traffic violation vs. stopping the car on a (corroborated) tip that the passenger is a drug dealer.  Stopping a school bus vs. stopping a car where the passenger is actually the owner of the car.  The list goes on, but at the end of the day, the passenger is seized, in my opinion; both actually and constitutionally (and should there be any difference?)

    Parent

    but, the legal point is (none / 0) (#7)
    by Deconstructionist on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 09:48:48 AM EST
     that if the officer asserts his authority to stop you then we unquestionably have a seizure of you and the government will then bear the burden of establishing it was a reasonable seizure and if it can not do so then the evidence seized must be suppressed.

      From a "street" perspective of simply hassling folks cops will do what cops will do, but this does have great bearing on what can happen in court if the people are actually charged with crimes.

    Parent

    The cops will do what the cops will do (none / 0) (#8)
    by Jim Strain on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 12:51:50 PM EST
    ... and sometimes what the cops will do is lie.  Even (gasp) in court.

    Parent
    true (none / 0) (#9)
    by Deconstructionist on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 01:57:36 PM EST
      but, those cops so disposed  can and will lie regardless of whether or not the court finds a passenger is seized at the moment of the stop.

      So, if we have a bright line rule that there is a seizure at that moment, the cops lies about subsequent events will be less significant in court--gasp!

    Parent

    questioning the police (none / 0) (#10)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 10:45:43 PM EST
    When I was up in Washington state, at some fairs and festivals, the local ACLU gave out some pamphlets about dealing with the police.  I forget what was in them and haven't been to law school.  I just read some here and there.

    If the police says you are not free to leave, can you ask if you are under arrest, and if so, for what charge?

    I guess there is also something that amounts to
    an interrogative detention, which is seemingly not the same thing as an arrest.  Is that correct?

    By the way, on the subject of an "interrogative detention," tell me about the following scenario which took place in 2003 with me the sometimes nudist--

    Between the mid-90s and 2003, the Wash state leg changed the Wa state definition of indecent exposure in way that should have and in fact does permit more public nudity.

    In the summer of 2003, on seven occasions I was sunbathing nude at Greenlake, a public park.  On the 7th occasion, I was accosted by a policeperson
    who had had a complaint about my being nude.  After he instructed me to put on my shorts and I did so, he handcuffed me and led me to the vehicle and the local jail.  At no point in this procedure was I told that I was under arrest and the police repeatedly questioned me about my being nude.  From the very first few sentences, I referred police to the Wash state law as written,
    and explained that my conduct did not violate it.
    The police didn't seem to familiar with the law, though I had a copy with me at the time of the handcuffing.

    After about 3 hours in detention, the policeperson opened my cell door and said, "you are under arrest," and gave me the equivalent of a Miranda warning.

    Not that I felt my comments earlier to the police were coerced, but in retrospect, this doesn't seem like proper constitutional procedure to me.

    Police seem to think they can handcuff a person for "detention" and ask them questions without a Miranda warning.  (Something similar happened to me 1 year later, in California.)  Then, at some later point, and after having asked a bunch of questions and observed answers or the lack thereof, decide to release or charge a "suspect."  What gives?

    Parent

    "detention " (none / 0) (#11)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 07:34:18 AM EST
     is not synonymous with "arrest."

      All people arrested are detained but not all people detained are arrestd. Arrest refers to a formal legal event while detention refers to a condition.

       If you are not free to leave, or a reasonable person in YOUR position would not feel free to leave regardless of the subjective belief of the officer as to your freedom,  you are "detained."

      For most 4th amendment purposes "detention is the key factor not arrest and this is also true of 5th amendement (right against self incrimination) and 6th (right to counsel) issues.

      Once you are in detention, for example you must be given Miranda warnings before being interrogated or your statements will be inadmissible against you  in court. The key issue is whether the police conduct a "custodial interrogation" and an "arrest" is not necessary.

      Police may (and very often do) detaine people without making an arrest. To be lawful such detentions must be no longer than necessary to conduct a reasonable investigation where the police have a reasonably articulable suspiciion of criminal activity. Police may conduct a cursory pat down search at this point for weapons to ensure safety of officers and bystanders. (Often known as a Terry stop or stop and frisk).

     Then (you can see the huge potential for abuse here -- and abuse that is often very hard to establish in court) if the patdown reveals something the police consider to feel  suspicious -- like a weapon the police are allowed to conduct a further search on the theory the patdown has now established probable cause for a more thorough search. If the patdown merely reveals something suspicious but doesn't seem to be a weapon the officer can either seek a warrant claiming probable cause based on the suspicious concealed object and other circumstances-- or more commmonly simply ask the person to empty his pockest or to submit to a consent search (you'd be amazed at the number of people who do).

      A person is detained from the intitiation of the stop and might be further detained after the patdown based on the alleged probable cause but may not be formally arrested for a considerable period of time.

     

    As for your specific case (none / 0) (#12)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 07:54:26 AM EST
      MY opinion is that you were detained as you would heve been reasonable not to feel free to leave. Therefore  if you were "interrogated" (which encompasses both being asked questins or subjected to police behavior designed to elicit responses), you should have been given the Miranda warnings prior to the interrogation. If you were not then if you had challenged the admissibility of THOSE statement you should have "won" and had those statements ruled inadmissible against you.

      Of course, in that particular scenario your statements might not have been  crucial to the prosecution. The police could still testify to your state of undress that they observed or the prosecution could call other witnesses. Your statements might have actually been more helpful to you than to the State:  "I thought it was legal; (not a "true" defense but often persuasive to some jurors)" I was just changing clothes and i didn't think anyone could see me;" I had no intent to offens anyone or provide myself or others with sexual gratification." on the other hand, if you said something like "God made us this way. The human body is beautiful and the laws are based on prudish morals I reject;" then your statements might have been helpful to negate any defense of mistake, accident or lackmof criminal intent.

    I'd also add (none / 0) (#13)
    by Deconstructionist on Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 08:00:33 AM EST
      That your "detention" sounds tio me as if it was longer than reasonably necessary and that possibly even if the police had give you miranda but not "arrested" you that you may have been able to suppress your statement for violation of the prompt presentment rule.

      On the final hand, it sounds very much as if you wanted to be arrested, wanted to make the statements and wanted to use them in court so this is somewhat an academic exercise.

    passenger (none / 0) (#14)
    by fwilliams972 on Wed May 02, 2007 at 09:37:58 PM EST
    just make the officer give u a order u r seized
    or Just say no the rule will be U r seized .. ??????????????????//