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Obama vs. Bill Clinton?

As Jeralyn wrote up previously, Bill Clinton discussed the Presidential race last night. Obama responds in Iowa:

In response Obama told a press conference Saturday that Clinton himself had said in 1992 when he ran for president that a candidate can “have the right kind of experience or the wrong kind of experience.” But unlike Obama, Clinton had been a governor for more than ten years, a reporter reminded Obama.

Obama cites 'over a decade' of experience
“And I’ve be involved in government for over a decade,” replied Obama. The Illinois senator said he had the right kind of experience to “bring people together.”

. . . He added, “I understand there’s a history of politics being all about slash and burn…. I recall what the Clintons themselves called the ‘politics of personal destruction’ -- which they decried. My suspicion is that that’s just not where the country is at right now. They are not interested in politics as a blood sport; they’re interested in governance and solving problems” such as job creation and product safety.

I think this response is a mistake by Barack Obama. First and foremost, I can not imagine why Obama wants to get into a direct tit for tat with the most recent Democratic President, overwhelmingly approved by Democrats everywhere. Second, Obama has just allowed the discussion to be returned to the issue of "experience," a conversation that Hillary Clinton would prefer to have.

For once, Obama's general instincts to avoid political combat would have served him well. One final thought, the reference to "politics as bloodsport" may be appreciated by the Beltway Media, but base Democrats remember what the VRWC was and is. Silly of Obama to play to it. All in all, round to "the Clintons."

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  • Display: Sort:
    regardless (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Jgarza on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 02:39:46 PM EST
    of your feelings about Obama personally, you have always thought Clinton's campaign was doing a better job, yet look where we are now.

    The bloggers will never like Obama's style of campaigning, they want everything cast in partisan terms.  Obama just doesn't do that.

    I think (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 02:44:35 PM EST
    Edwards attacks, coupled with Hillary's errors on the DL issue, followed by inept campaign decisions (the kindergarten thing ESPECIALLY) are what have us here.

    Now Obama has been riding the wave quite well no doubt.

    This is a misstep.

    Parent

    I dont think Edwards (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jgarza on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 02:58:56 PM EST
    attack didn't help(excuse my double negative), but ponder for a minute, what people say when you ask them what they don't like about Clinton, they are what Obama has been criticizing her on, not Edwards.

    His death by 1,000 paper cuts attacks, which have been in his rhetoric since he started campaigning, are almost impossible to respond to.  I think Dana Milbank summed up Obamas sly way of being negative here

    Something about your article: It parses a response to Obamas response.  He brought up that there were questions about Bills experience when he ran in '92.  i doubt many people will get this information with the retort that the article you cited has. So i think its pretty smart to bring up that Clinton faced questions about his experience in '92.  Also the rest of the quote, which your article doesn't have has Obama esq language, about "real people" experience.

    Parent

    I parsed I admit (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:00:13 PM EST
    to the parts I thought were a mistake.

    The rest was fine.

    Parent

    ha (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jgarza on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:03:29 PM EST
    what will people think?
    you just took my point and moved on.... and scroll down... i took yours and moved on.

    It's a miricle.. i think it is a sign we are going to  have our first black president.

    Parent

    I feel confident today (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:05:35 PM EST
    that we will either have our first A-A or femal President next year.

    Either way, a proud day for us all.

    Parent

    yeah i tell my self that too (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Jgarza on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:07:36 PM EST
    I also have to remind myself i don't hate Hillary, its just Mark Penn that gets under my skin.  You counting JE out?

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:18:35 PM EST
    I think Obama is going to win Iowa BTW.

    This is a real horse race now.

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jgarza on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:22:09 PM EST
    but jeez 20 days feels like 20 years!

    Parent
    I second that (none / 0) (#24)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 04:00:34 PM EST
    For all the depressing lack of spine in this race and in my party, I feel quite good about that aspect of it.  Long overdue for this dysfunctional stewpot.  

    Parent
    Welcome back Big Tent (5.00 / 8) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 02:41:17 PM EST
    You were missed.

    Ditto! (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Jgarza on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 02:43:07 PM EST
    BTD, you're back. (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Plutonium Page on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 02:48:26 PM EST
    Cool.  Not that I didn't enjoy Jeralyn's posts, of course!

    All I have to say is that if you watch the interview, it's one of the few times I've seen the Big Dog not be smooth.  If it's supposed to be a hit job of any kind, it's a really, really bad one.

    Hm.  Should Obama have responded?  I'd say maybe with one sentence.  More than that is out of proportion to the so-called "attack".  It isn't worth the time.

    In my inexpert opinion, anyway.

    It's all subjective I guess (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 02:52:07 PM EST
    I thought Bill was quite good. Fantastic even.

    You see my explanation for why I think Obama makes a mistake on this.

    Parent

    Yes, and I agree with it, absolutely (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Plutonium Page on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 02:53:28 PM EST
    It makes more sense than anything I could have come up with.

    Parent
    It was time for him to be (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 02:58:50 PM EST
    above the fray.

    The MO was all in his direction. Heck, the Media agreed weith your take on Clinton's appearance. The story might have spun that way.

    This response, especially on the "EXPERIENCE" issue, directly to BILL, just seems like a bad move to me.

    I expect we will be hearing about Obama's experience now this week.

    Not the storyline the Obama folks would have wanted imo.

    Parent

    That maybe the (none / 0) (#11)
    by Jgarza on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:00:42 PM EST
    case.  you may be right, if the media take was going to be negative it might have been smart for him not to respond.  But who knows

    Parent
    Wait a day? (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:04:16 PM EST
    Or 2?

    there was time to see how it played out.

    Responding INSURES it becomes a continuing story.

    I really think this was a misstep. Obama will lose at least half a week on this now.

    With 3 to go, not what you want.

    Parent

    I have to (none / 0) (#16)
    by Jgarza on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:06:27 PM EST
    wonder if anything Bill says will ever just disappear in a day, but if the media was going to spin it as panic, he didn't need to respond.

    Parent
    Not so far (none / 0) (#18)
    by magster on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:11:29 PM EST
    Amdinger says scared

    ABC News linked on Huff PO says that Clinton's reasons for not running in 1988 were much less noble.

    Obama's implication that Bill (and Hillary) are hypocrites because Bill had limited experience in 1992 is a good comeback.  

    And I doubt that the press is going to quit taking Obama's side on every issue.

    Obama should start acting like a frontrunner and acting "above it all" soon, but probably not until Christmas.

    Parent

    Good points (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jgarza on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:16:30 PM EST
    But i think it will be impossible for us to know until Jan 4.

    Parent
    Ambinder is not reacting to Obama's response (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:17:18 PM EST
    Those stories are now OFFICIALLY old news.

    Thanks to Obama's response.

    Experience is an issue again.

    Parent

    Now I have to watch. . . (none / 0) (#12)
    by andgarden on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:02:30 PM EST
    One good thing about Clinton's interview (none / 0) (#23)
    by magster on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 03:25:33 PM EST
    is that it's made for a fun interesting lazy Saturday of blog-reading.

    Well.... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Lora on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 04:28:12 PM EST
    ...the most recent Democratic President, overwhelmingly approved by Democrats everywhere.

    That's just a tad bit exaggerated, don't you think?

    No (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by andgarden on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 05:27:18 PM EST
    Listen, andgarden, let the big guy (none / 0) (#27)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 07:16:50 PM EST
    speak for himself.  I agree with Lora; BTD is trying to stir things up.

    Parent
    You'd be wrong (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 09:07:01 PM EST
    Bill Clinton is the most admired figure in the Democratic Party by DEMS.

    No doubt about it at all.

    Parent

    I can't be that unique (none / 0) (#30)
    by Lora on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 09:32:17 PM EST
    I and several dems of my acquaintance have a lot of problems with ole Bill, friend of big corporate interests.  I cannot believe we are alone in this.

    Parent
    you represnt about 12% of Dems (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 10:21:34 PM EST
    The other 88% disagree with you.

    Parent
    OT: I had a conversation with (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 07:18:16 PM EST
    a woman in my office last night.  She is African American.  She has a great deal of respect for Andrew Young and believes what he sd. about Obama.

    always fight back (none / 0) (#32)
    by along on Sun Dec 16, 2007 at 01:42:08 AM EST
    ignoring the Clinton campaign's biggest attack dog is idiotic, no matter who it is. How long would you have Obama ignore him for? One week? Two weeks?

    I agree it wasn't the most sure-footed response, but you don't just roll over.

    I also agree that the "blood sport" reference was weak, but I think the "politics of personal destruction" reminder was strong parry.

    Can you cite a modern example of someone "staying above the fray" when they were directly attacked turning out to have been a successful strategy? I can't.

    The politics of fear = Americans fleeing for Haiti (none / 0) (#33)
    by Aaron on Sun Dec 16, 2007 at 02:35:24 AM EST
    Just another continuation of the politics of fear, don't vote for us because our ideas are better, vote for us because you're afraid of what could happen with Obama. It's a pathetic argument, born out of desperation, that unfortunately the Clinton campaign decided to lead with from the very beginning.  And now they're in the end game with the fear mongering.  Are they out of cards to play already?  Perhaps they didn't have much of a hand to begin with.

    The truth is that Hillary Clinton is a complete unknown, as president.  But of course we do know exactly what she did in the Senate, capitulate to the Republicans at almost every opportunity apparently thinking it would give her a lock on the nomination, and four years ago perhaps it would have.  She should've run her campaign in 2004, but apparently she wasn't interested in a real challenge, she preferred to wait for the easy win.  

    Excuse me for taking satisfaction in watching her bleed a little, because she left us with that stiff John Kerry, perhaps counting on him to lose.  I see what's happening to her campaign now as rather well-deserved.  And now that she's under real pressure, she doesn't look quite so good, now does she?  I'd be willing to bet that Clinton's advisers told her that if she ran in 2004, her government experience would've been brought into question by the Republicans, in much the same way she's done with Obama.  Sorry Hillary, it's too late to use the tactics out of the Karl Rove handbook.

      And Hillary has the nerve to tell us that her perpetual acquiescence in the Senate was a sign of strength and stability, please!  I see her tactical approach as very similar to those used by her husband and it seems likely that she would govern the same way.  

    In my opinion the William Jefferson Clinton presidency was hardly more than a slowdown of the conservative movement.  Bill did little more than stave off the nightmare we have now.  We lost the Congress because the Democrats were weak, their ideas were badly lacking, poorly articulated and even more poorly executed.  And the only reason the Democrats regained the majority in the House and Senate in 2006 is because we have an incompetent moron in the White House, who usurped the People's sovereignty, crapped on the Constitution, and started a war with a country who was no threat to us, damaging this country and our economy immeasurably.  With the money we've blown, and are going to blow, we could already had national health care for everyone.

    (This thought continues after a short two paragraph trip into bizarro world, and the undeniable fact that the incompetence of George W. Bush has become the savior of the Democratic Party)

    Just imagine what this political race would look like if George Bush had listened to the right people from the start, and been able to create some kind of corporate capitalist paradise in Iraq, and the price of gas was back to $.89 a gallon with the help of cheaply acquired Iraqi oil, and the economy was humming along and growing nicely.  The Republicans would still have the majority in Congress, and the Democrats would have little or no chance of winning this election.  Hillary wouldn't be running, and neither would Obama, they'd both be waiting for a better opportunity to go for the gold.  Al Gore would be running for president, along with John Kerry again.  Gore would get the nomination, and then lose badly in the general election, even with his Nobel prize.  Thankfully we don't live in that bizarro world, but if Bush had been a competent administrator like his brother Jeb, the Democrats could very easily have found themselves in that situation.

    The truth is George W. Bush has done more to help the Democratic party than any president since Nixon.  It seems the Democrats need Republican screw ups to make them look good. It's just too bad that our country and its people have to pay the price for their gains.  Now I understand why those who once claimed to be progressives, crossover and become conservatives Republicans, apparently it's about being able to wake up and respect yourself in the morning.

    (Continuing my original thought)

    After the Bush debacle of course the people switched over to a party that they hoped would remember who they work for, unfortunately we now know that pretty much both parties in Congress have sold us all down the river like slaves on this corporate plantation. In a sense, the people/slaves are like a giant sleeping Leviathan, and our representatives just do the absolute minimum that is required to keep us sleeping and placated.  The only time they even think about really paying attention to us is when we are roused from our slumber. Then our representatives begin acting out of the fear of losing their jobs, so it's no wonder that they continually resort to similar tactics when dealing with us.

    I'm sorry, but I just don't see Hillary Clinton doing much more than continuing this appeasement of the minority Republican Party, and the all-powerful forces of mutated mercantile capitalism, where the government works for the corporations, and the people are just an afterthought.  With the Clintons in the White House, before you know it, they'll be telling the American people that the the sow's ear were being sold is in fact a silk purse, and we should be damned grateful for it.  

    And of course we'll get a guaranteed continuation of the partisan games we've all come to know and love.  The Republicans will do everything in their power to undermine the Clinton presidency in the hopes of regaining the House and Senate, which they will probably do, without the war issue and a rapidly failing economy weighing them down like a loadstone the way it is today.  Instead it'll be hanging around Hillary's neck, and it will drag her down along with the Democrats in Congress.  Bill will be doing damage control, as he is now, and the Clintons will be lucky to get one term in the White House because the American people will not tolerate Iraq going on endlessly, and inflation spiraling out of control while people lose their houses and can't find anything but crappy service jobs, servicing a shrinking middle-class who will watch as the buying power of their dollars shrinks as well.  They'll be marching on the White House with pitchforks and torches, calling for the head of the monster.

    I don't need some half assed journey back to the 90s, minus the economic growth and relative peace, and neither do the American people.  But the Republicans would love it because it will once again give them the opportunity to show how weak the Democrats are, and before you know it we'll see yet another resurgence of Reaganomics, privatization, deregulation, and the American people left to swing in the breeze while our elected representatives keep this sick little game going until the United States really is a third-rate power, the mere remnants of a once proud empire, just another failed Republic waiting for its imminent collapse. In the end we'll find ourselves begging help from China, India and perhaps even -- tucking our tail between our legs -- Venezuela.  :-)

    And maybe in a hundred years or so, Americans will find themselves getting on boats to flee this failed state, to become skulking illegal aliens in Africa.  Just imagine, white folks working in the kitchens and produce fields of an emerging prosperous United Africa, desperately afraid that they'll be discovered and deported back to the abject poverty and squalor of the US. Even better, I'd really love to see Americans killing themselves to reach the shores of Haiti, in the hopes of providing a better future for their children (okay well not really, but you take my meaning).  Now that would be a real measure of karmic justice.

    I'll tell you what, Obama's inexperience doesn't frighten me, but the thought of such scenarios terrifies me, and it should terrify all of you as well.

    So be afraid, be very afraid, of Hillary and all such pretenders who would pressure you into supporting them out of fear.

    sheesh (none / 0) (#34)
    by Jgarza on Sun Dec 16, 2007 at 02:42:44 AM EST
    now thats a post phew.  If my memory serves me correct, she was a liability for Clinton, in the white house.

    Parent