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Poll: Americans Favor Guest Worker Plan

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 10:50:13 PM EST
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Not all Americans are xenophobic. That's the good news from the latest Quinnepac poll, in which 59% of Americans say they favor some sort of guest worker plan for undocumented residents.

Most of those polled also favor more stringent attempts to close the border. But at least they recognize that those who are here, working and lawfully paying taxes, should be allowed to stay here.

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    Poll: Americans Favor Guest Worker Plan | 14 comments (14 topical)

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    that's not a good analogy because... (4.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Deconstructionist on Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 07:49:44 AM EST
     Robbing and killing are "malum in se" (meaning they are criminalized because they are bad or wrong) but immigrating without authorizattion is "malum prohibitum" (meaning it is considered wrong because it has been criminalized).

      The condemnation of robbing and killing predates the the existence of the concept of nations and borders. Immigration as a concept is a result of the establishment of nations and borders.

      A better analogy would be to a  law forgiving people for past violations of a malum prohibitum law committed prior to the repeal of that law.

       For example, if marijuana cultivation for personal use were to be decriminalized and the new law included a provision that no future prosecutions would be permitted for acts committed prior to the repeal.

    pretty arrogant of you, jeralyn....... (2.50 / 2) (#4)
    by cpinva on Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 01:53:11 AM EST
    to accuse, with no substantive basis in fact, those of us opposed to this plan, of being xenophobic.

    how about we call it what it is: "fruit of the poisonous tree". what you propose is to reward illegal acts.

    let's take this concept to its next logical progression: i rob a bank, killing a guard in the process. afterwards, i settle down, spending my ill gotten gains peacefully, and in a law abiding manner. i even report some of the stolen funds on my income tax return.

    using your logic, i should be left alone, because i'm now leading a law abiding life, paying taxes, etc. gee, i probably even keep a nice yard. :)

    granted, this is an extreme example, but a legitimate analogy nonetheless.

    i might also add that the "guest worker" plan is a fraud, perpetrated on the american public, by businesses seeking cheap labor. there are more than enough unemployed citizens, in this country who, for a reasonable wage (meaning livable) will do pretty much any job available.

    the "guest worker" program wasn't created due to a lack of sufficient labor, it was created to provide cheap labor, and undercut unions.

    is that what you want?

    And classist, too (1.00 / 1) (#8)
    by fafnir on Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 09:41:49 AM EST
    Amen!

    Indeed, according to Jeralyn's Neo-BushManichaeism logic, people who oppose open borders and amnesty for illegals are xenophobes. It's no wonder the nation can't have an open, honest debate about our immigration problem, which could yield real solutions that protect our environment, manages our growth for sustainable living, our ability to provide adequate community services, and economic security for working-class people.

    Self-serving poll results like this one are not surprising given that open-border and pro-amnesty advocates are afforded a disproportionately large portion of the corporate media bandwidth to frame the debate to their advantage. Consequently, the public accepts the false dilemma commonly espoused by these advocates that, "now that they're here, we just can't round them up and deport them...," or the classist, corporate lie that illegals "are here doing work that Americans won't do."

    The truth is that no one is talking about rounding people up and deporting them anywhere. The hidden option of attrition through enforcement is rarely proffered in the public debate.  Also, there are NO jobs Americans won't do if they are given an opportunity, a fair wage, and humane workplace conditions. Anything less is cheap labor exploitation -- bordering on slavery -- by any other name.

    Parent

    So why did the rethuglican congress... (none / 0) (#10)
    by Bill Arnett on Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 01:12:40 PM EST
    ...vote to make them FELONS? Just so they could allow 11,000,000 FELONS runs around the country without facing arrest, prosecution, and deportations? So much for law and order, eh? So this claim:

    The truth is that no one is talking about rounding people up and deporting them anywhere.
    is absolutely incorrect.

    Parent
    Let's turn to the poll (1.00 / 1) (#1)
    by LonewackoDotCom on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 11:49:05 PM EST
    I discuss this poll in more depth here. If they told people the ramifications of that "guest" worker program, I'm sure they would have gotten a much different result. Most people are not aware of the political power inside the U.S. that massive immigration has given the Mexican government, and most are not familiar with chain migration. Most may not realize that the planned amnesty would be as poorly enforced as the 1986 amnesty, leading to even more illegal immigration.

    The proof's in the pudding, and if another amnesty is passed I think the vast majority of Americans are going to see they were lied to and they aren't going to like it in the least.

    Still confused (1.00 / 1) (#3)
    by jarober on Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 12:51:01 AM EST
    I see that the "illegal" part of "illegal alien" continues to elude TL.

    The problem with unchecked immigration (1.00 / 1) (#6)
    by jarober on Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 09:07:47 AM EST
    There are a number of issues with just "letting it all hang out"

    1. Health implications.  With no idea who's coming in, we also have no idea what diseases they might be bringing in

    2. Security.  With no idea who's crossing the southern border, we have no idea whether bad actors are mixing into that flood tide

    TL is not being fair on this debate - opposition to illegal entry is classified as xenophobia and/or racism.  I don't have a problem with legal entry to the US, from South/Central America or elsewhere.  I'd like to see the immigration process made simpler, but with some basic security and health checks.  TL simply wants to throw the doors open.

    Here's a question - at home, do you not only leave your doors unlocked, but open?  Do you leave your keys in the ignition?

    decon, it's a legitimate analogy..... (1.00 / 1) (#9)
    by cpinva on Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 10:12:58 AM EST
    because, in both instances, you are profiting from your illegal act. whether that illegal act is crossing the border without proper authorization, or robbing a bank, is irrelevant.

    presumptively, any act, in violation of standing law, is considered wrong. that some acts are inherently wrong (robbing & killing), is not dispositive, as people have been pardoned for both.

    however, if it will make you happy, change my example to profiting from insider trading. :)

    the real issue here, the "800lb gorilla" that everyone avoids, is the abject failure, on the part of the mexican gov't, to create an economy which provides sufficient jobs for its citizens. and really, why should it? after all, it has the united states acting as an economic escape valve.

    until such time as pressure is brought to bear, on pres. fox and his administration, or any mexican gov't, illegal immigration will always be a problem for us.

    Guest Worker Plan is Not Amnesty (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 12:01:02 AM EST
    You are spinning the Republican conservative line....a guest worker plan is nowhere near the equivalent of amnesty.  I wish it were.

    Guest worker plan is amnesty. (1.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Gabriel Malor on Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 09:26:02 AM EST
    Actually, a guest worker program for those illegals already here is amnesty. Pro-illegal advocates have started to think that amnesty must take the shape of citizenship. That is incorrect. Amnesty is simply a mass pardon for a certain crime. It does not confer automatic citizenship. So, a guest worker program whereby current illegals get legal recognition and forgiveness for their crime is the very definition of amnesty.

    Oh, and it's a lousy cheap shot to call anyone opposed to open borders xenophobic. Shame on you.

    Parent

    It's an even cheaper shot to accuse ... (none / 0) (#11)
    by Bill Arnett on Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 01:39:56 PM EST
    ...someone of saying something they did not say or intend to say. Jeralyn said:

    Not all Americans are xenophobic.

    That is a very simple statement made with very plain words, the meaning of which are self-evident.

    Anyone leaping to find offense at this statement should read it again and again until they understand what it plainly says: NOT ALL AMERICANS ARE XENOPHOBIC, which, as I read it means: NOT ALL AMERICANS ARE XENOPHOBIC.

    Furthermore, Jeralyn did not allege that every or any American opposed to illegal immigration IS xenophobic and I defy you to point out where in this post she did.

    To leap to the conclusion that this impugns the character of anyone else is plain silly, constitutes a strawman argument, and exposes a sensitivity to imagined insults.

    Kinda like taking offense because someone says: NOT ALL APPLES ARE RED. That's a basic statement of a well-known fact and does not in any way allege that any apple that is not red tastes any less delicious. Or if you prefer, find insult in these statements:

    Not all Americans are Hispanic.
    Not all Americans are black.
    Not all Americans are WASPS.
    Not all Americans are tall.
    Not all Americans fancy they have been insulted by being told they AREN'T this-or-that.

    Lighten up.

    Parent

    Down the rabbit hole again (4.00 / 1) (#12)
    by aw on Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 02:01:21 PM EST
    All I know is something comes at me
    Like a Jack-in-the-box
    And I go up like a Sky Rocket!

    Parent
    Yes, it most certainly is (none / 0) (#13)
    by LonewackoDotCom on Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 07:13:34 PM EST
    Under the Senate bill or McCain-Kennedy, our "guests" would be here for at least three years, and in that time they'd have U.S. citizen children. That would make it very difficult to deport them. Plus, they could apply for a three year extension, and at four years they could apply for permanent resident status.

    Obviously, our "guests" would never go home.

    And, anything like the Senate bill will be perceived as an amnesty by millions of prospective illegal aliens around the world. It doesn't matter what it's called, it will be seen as a massive amnesty and a clarion call to come to the U.S. illegally in hopes of receiving the next amnesty.

    Parent

    Poll by time magazine (none / 0) (#14)
    by laplace on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:46:35 PM EST
    Americans polled by TIME magazine show strong support for a guest-worker program and a process for undocumented workers to become citizens, but they take a tough stance on securing the borders.
    Americans' biggest concerns about illegal immigration appear to be economic: 61% of those polled say they are very concerned about the cost of providing health care and education to illegal immigrants. A substantial majority, 75%, say they should not be allowed to have government services, such as health care or food stamps, and 69% say they shouldn't be able to get a driver's license. A slight majority, 51%, think public schools ought to be off-limits.

    =========
    LAPLACE
    =    ========
    New York Immigration Lawyer Marina Shepelsky,
    located in Brooklyn, assists clients from the
    New York metro area and across the United States
    in all immigration and naturalization matters
    http://www.e-us-visa.com

    Poll: Americans Favor Guest Worker Plan | 14 comments (14 topical)

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