Marriage and Religion: Where Did You Get Married

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 10:13:16 PM EST
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Update: More on the New Jersey decision at the New York Times and Washington Post.

*****

Big Tent Democrat wrote about the decision today by the New Jersey Supreme Court (opinion here, pdf). Several commenters weighed in with where they got married, in a civil ceremony or a religious one.

I got married twice in one weekend. The first ceremony was conducted on Friday by the Mayor at City Hall. The second was a religious ceremony that Sunday, at the home of friends of my parents. (I had cast the marriage date astrologically -- it was the '70's after all -- and it wasn't possible to do a religious ceremony on a Friday night.)

The marriage that was recognized by the state was the civil union on Friday. The religious one made no difference.

Is marriage inextricably intertwined with religion? I'd say no, nor should it be.

How about you? Where did you get married?

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Marriage and Religion: Where Did You Get Married | 29 comments (29 topical)

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What could have been (none / 0) (#1)
by roy on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 10:35:32 PM EST

As an atheist, I was planning a civil ceremony at a park. As a Methodist, my financée was planning a church wedding.

It didn't work out.

I think it's a bad idea to allow religion to have a say in marriage laws anyway. It's a slippery slope towards polygamy.

Also an atheist (none / 0) (#2)
by Repack Rider on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 10:43:12 PM EST

We got married down at the courthouse, standing in front of a desk. (My joke is that there were two pairs of yellow footprints on the floor, one large, one small, and a stenciled notice to stand here.)

The woman in a pantsuit who conducted the brief ceremony ended it by saying, "And now, through the authority vested in me as Deputy Commissioner of Marriages, I pronounce you husband and wife."

Still single (none / 0) (#3)
by Zeno on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 10:52:42 PM EST

I never got married, but all of my family members have been dutifully married in Roman Catholic ceremonies. All of the weddings were, I believe, on Saturday afternoons. Either that is the time slot especially favored of God, or that's when the church is available.

I've long believed that it would be good to have a clean separation between civil union and matrimony. The former can provide legal rights and the latter can provide religious rites. No need to get them all mixed together. I wouldn't even care if people preferred polygamy and polyandry.

Neither (none / 0) (#4)
by Quaker in a Basement on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 11:07:56 PM EST

Neither the church nor the state has anything to do with marriage in the spirit:

"For the right joining in marriage is the work of the Lord only, and not the priests or magistrates; for it is God's ordinance and not man's. And therefore Friends cannot consent that they should join them together. For we marry none; it is the Lord's work, and we are but witnesses."--George Fox

My wife and I were married at the Friends' Meeting House. There was no minister or civil officer. We married ourselves with our friends (and Friends) as witnesses.

As an institution of civil law, I believe the state has the obligation to recognize marriages solemnized under the care of any spiritual organization. To do otherwise is to practice religious discrimination.

astrological date (none / 0) (#5)
by ding7777 on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 12:01:44 AM EST

TL, you said you have an ex-. Did you miscast the astrological date?

: Date was correct (none / 0) (#7)
by Jeralyn on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 02:16:18 AM EST

The date was also Friday the 13th. I thought the cast date was on the money. The mostly happy marriage lasted 8 years and produced an incredible son, now 25 and finishing up law school. I'm sure not complaining.

no religion here (none / 0) (#6)
by chemoelectric on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 02:00:15 AM EST

Marriage is regulation of social arrangements. It's essentially governmental. It is one governmental matter in which we continue to tolerate the involvement of religions, although we ought to ease our way out of that, if we are serious about separating church and government. That would make matters much clearer and simpler.

My wife and I got married at the Hennepin County Gov't Center in Minneapolis, after hours in judge's chambers. The one friend who was invited and a court employee served as the two witnesses. Afterwards we informed people of our marriage. We got rings about a year later. Religion had nothing to do with it.

We're married now - deal with it. (none / 0) (#8)
by Edger on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 02:43:13 AM EST

Married in civil ceremony at judge's chambers, divorced 3 years later in the coutroom... about 35 years ago... I don't remember if it was the same judge for both occassions.

Other than the fact that marriage ceremonies provide ritual and societal approval, I don't see why two people shouldn't be able to simply fill out some type of declaration form, sign it, date it, and be done with it. It could be a form attached to their tax returns. Have a party if they want to provide for the "ceremony". Essentially marriage is an agreement based on emotional bond between two people. Seems to me it's them telling the world "we're married now - deal with it", not the other way around. No?

Why should marriage require government or church sanction? I have very little respect for either one and grant neither any power over me. One has guns and makes me pay taxes, the other is devoid of any meaning or power in my life other that I have to chase away their zombies occassionally.

Marriage (none / 0) (#9)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 06:49:21 AM EST

Base Chapel, NAS Pensacola.

Religion should not be a factor in the wedding at all if the couple chooses so.

in Bethesda MD (none / 0) (#10)
by teacherken on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 07:26:22 AM EST

even though we both live (and did then as well) in Arlington VA. It was where we attended church. Oh, and I am no longer a member of that religion - gee, does that mean my marriage is no longer valid? hmmmm

oh btw I don't think state should be involved in deciding what is or isn't a marriage. Leave that to any religion, and if the Metropolitan community church wants to marry gays, so be it.

There should be no discrimination on the basis of civil union.

But that's just me.

Marriage (none / 0) (#11)
by jazzcattg1 on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 07:41:50 AM EST

Was married by a Episcopalian cleric, a former Roman Catholic priest in a nice, peaceful meadow in Evergreen, Colorado - this was after a Catholic priest stated that the ceremony could not be held outdoors, let's see outdoors a product of God, Church a product of man...hmmmmm

Marriage... (none / 0) (#12)
by RAM on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 08:09:12 AM EST

We got married in our local Presbyterian Church lo these many years ago--41 next month.

It might be well to note that the Pilgrim Fathers didn't believe in church weddings at all. They considered marriage a civil and legal contract and didn't feel churches ought to have been sullied with such things.

So how about we all just follow the good old Puritan ethic and be done with it.

Marriage (none / 0) (#13)
by Emily on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 08:28:39 AM EST

I got married in 1971 at the Unitarian Church in Santa Barbara. I was 21 and my husband was only 20 and needed to get a note from his parents so we could buy the license. Someone asked me once, "weren't you awfully young?" The answer is "yes, but we didn't know it at the time."

Heaven Forbid (none / 0) (#14)
by kdog on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 08:33:45 AM EST

I got married in a frozen-over hell with pigs flying all around....oops, that's what has to occur for me to get married:)

My older bro tried to get married in the Catholic church, but they turned him away because his bride was pregnant. So they went to the local Protestant church as god-fearing free agents.

got married twice......................... (none / 0) (#15)
by cpinva on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 09:07:17 AM EST

to the same woman, in two different churches. fortunately, we only needed one license.

first, we got married in my wife's church, the local methodist one. than, several years later, we were married again, in the catholic church. this was more to make my father happy. but, what the heck, it was an excuse to have a party!

the funniest part about the second wedding was that we had to meet with the priest, prior to the ceremony, for "pre-marital" counseling, though we'd been married for 4 years, with one child, at that point.

he was a young guy, and pretty laid back. as we were preparing to leave, i made the comment that "remember, jesus was a jew". he responded, with a grin, "yeah, but he converted on the cross!"

couldn't help but like the guy!

Marriage belongs in a church (none / 0) (#16)
by Jen M on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 09:26:28 AM EST

I believe the catholic church considers it a sacrament.

Government performs a civil union. That is the way it should be kept, named, and considered.

If the church doesnt want to marry two people for whatever reason (and I have heard some petty ones) then they don't. The couples then go to another church or simply remain with the civil ceremony.

I don't think the religious right realizes the nasty can of worms they are opening. When they start letting the government dictate what is a religious matter (marriage as opposed to a civil union)

Take a seat... (none / 0) (#17)
by Che's Lounge on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 09:30:20 AM EST

First marriage 6/5/76 by a judge in front of the Milwaukee County courthouse at age 21. I forgot any money and my best man had to pay. $20 bucks I think. Her parents refused to attend. Small reception in Grant Park. She split 6 months after she got her PhD, and I got my sex life back, so we both did OK.

Second marraige was VEGAS, BABY!!! I won $250 in a slot that night on one dollar. I thought it was a good omen. We're divorced. She's in rehab. But I got her kid and he's late for school, so life is relatively normal.

Outrageous, I say... (none / 0) (#18)
by desertswine on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 09:58:44 AM EST

We got married in a fever,
Hotter than a pepper sprout.

We were, of course, crazy.

Marriage by Any Other Name (none / 0) (#19)
by digaman on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 10:29:26 AM EST

I married my same-sex partner, Keith, in a beautiful restaurant in San Francisco. We were married in the presence of our families -- who were totally supportive, including Keith's Republican relatives -- and friends. The whole story is here:

Our Traditional Non-Traditional Wedding

As far as we're concerned, we're married, whether or not the state and the law recognizes that living fact.

marriage (none / 0) (#20)
by scribe on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 10:52:45 AM EST

Never got married....

Married twice (none / 0) (#21)
by aw on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 11:29:04 AM EST

Married twice in church. Lotta good that did. Maybe I'm just not good at marriage, but like Jeralyn, I have a terrific kid.

I was married in a (none / 0) (#22)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 11:41:05 AM EST

civil ceremony by a gay JP/old college friend in a First Congregational Church 12 years ago.

Still making whoopee (none / 0) (#23)
by weezie on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 12:53:46 PM EST

St Louis Cathedral, New Orleans. Big Catholic to do. 1978. Lots of eyelet ruffles and a hat.

But civil unions fine and dandy by me, whatever makes people happy. Although I hope weezie jr decides to have a formal ceremony so I can cry!

I forgot (none / 0) (#24)
by Che's Lounge on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 01:01:13 PM EST

The first time I got married, we BOTH changed our names. It was a demonstration against the loss of identity for the woman. We used letters from both of our "maiden" names to form the new one. The ironic thing is, all SHE had to do was change her driver's license. Yet when I went up to change mine, the DMV freaked, and I had to go to court. My brother keeps our family name and has passed it onto 2 sons.

Shame on them for not buying hats (none / 0) (#25)
by HK on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 01:08:53 PM EST

I got married in a Registry Office aged 22. We had only been dating 3 weeks when I proposed. I may not know much about men, but I know one thing: if you wait long enough for a man to do something, you'll wait long enough ;0)

We had been together for 9 months on our wedding day. Everybody was shocked to find I wasn't pregnant. Hardly anyone bought new outfits for the occasion - I don't think anyone took us seriously. Nobody expected us to last...but in fairness, I don't know if we even expected it to ourselves! But we are very happy and on the 1st of November we celebrate our 9th wedding anniversary. On our last anniversary, I wrote in my husband's card 'Shame on them for not buying hats!'

Incidentally, my Grandmother refused to attend our wedding because it wasn't in a Catholic church; 43 years earlier, her own mother-in-law had refused to attend her wedding because it wasn't in a Protestant church. And so the madness continues...

It is interesting what Jeralyn and aw have said about their marriages not being in vain due to having great kids. I too have great kids and am very thankful for them, but I feel that even unsuccessful childless marriages are something to be celebrated. Every marriage is an expreience and but for the few very unpleasant ones, they add something to our lives and are a part of a process of learning about ourselves and others.

Legal Marriage vs. Church Marriage (none / 0) (#26)
by JefferyK on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 02:40:41 PM EST

A church marriage is not a legal marriage. The fight for gay marriage is a fight for legal marriage, not church marriage. The Metropolitan Community Church already performs marriage ceremonies for gay couples and has done so for decades.

Once you focus on legal marriage, all of the emotional nonsense surrounding the issue of gay marriage evaporates. I mean, you don't have to be a Christian to get a legal marriage. You don't have to be in love. You don't even have to be straight. You just have to be the opposite sex.

Media coverage of gay marriage never, ever seems to make these distinctions. Why?

Emotional nonsense (none / 0) (#28)
by roy on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 04:26:52 PM EST

Once you focus on legal marriage, all of the emotional nonsense surrounding the issue of gay marriage evaporates.

Emotional nonsense has a way of sticking around.

Marriages, civil unions, and the like give the couple legal privileges not offered to individuals or unwhatevered couples. So we taxpayers are being asked to support the relationship. That's unacceptable to some people, even if it's a purely secular relationship, regardless of what it's called.

(Random aside, this automatic spell checker is my new favorite thing)


: Taxpayers? (none / 0) (#29)
by JefferyK on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 05:51:51 PM EST

Well, you seem to be forgetting that gay people pay taxes, too.

I got married... (none / 0) (#27)
by John Mann on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 04:05:25 PM EST

...twice, both times in a church, but not for any particularly religious reason - it was just what you did.

Both my former wives are wonderful women, and we have four grown children, all of whom have turned out to be good human beings.

I'm just not convinced that people are meant to be monogamous, although I truly admire folks who stay happily married for pretty much all their lives.