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No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Case

By Jeralyn, Section War on Terror
Posted on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 07:33:08 PM EST
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On the kids from Texas busted in Michigan Friday and being held by local Michigan prosecutors for terror offenses because they bought too many cell phonesat a Wal-Mart:

The FBI said Monday it had no information to indicate that the three Texas men arrested with about 1,000 cell phones in their van had any direct connection to known terrorist groups. Also, a prosecutor in a separate Ohio case said he can't prove a terrorism link to two men arrested after buying large numbers of cell phones and will drop terrorism charges against them.

Another case of racial profiling gone wild.

Adham Abdelhamid Othman, 21, of Dallas, and Maruan Awad Muhareb, 18, and Louai Abdelhamied Othman, 23, both of Mesquite, Texas, were stopped by police Friday outside a Wal-Mart store in Caro, about 80 miles north of Detroit after employees became suspicious when they purchased about 80 cell phones.

Local prosecutors charged them with collecting or providing materials for terrorist acts and surveillance of a vulnerable target for terrorist purposes. The men told a magistrate Saturday that they were buying the phones for resale.

In Ohio:

....Authorities stopped the men on a traffic violation in Marietta, Ohio, on Aug. 8 and said they found airplane passenger lists and information on airport security checkpoints, along with $11,000 cash and 12 phones, in their car.

... Defense attorneys said the government had no evidence the phones were being used illegally and the men planned to resell the phones simply to make money. They also said the airport and airplane information were old papers left in the car by a relative who worked at an airport.

More on the FBI release:

The FBI issued a news release Monday saying there is no imminent threat to the bridge linking Michigan's upper and lower peninsulas. The release also said the FBI had no information indicating that the men, Palestinian-Americans living in Texas, had any direct links to any known terrorist groups or to the alleged plot to bomb trans-Atlantic jetliners that was announced in London last week.

Another Emily Litella "never mind" moment. Except for the traumatized kids whose reputations were smeared on national tv and in their home towns.

I'll be discussing the racial profiling aspect of the case with a conservative talk show host on KABC radio in Los Angeles at 8 am Pacific Time. Here's the listen live link.

< Sen. George Allen and the Macaca Flap | Fox News Journalist Kidnapped in Gaza >

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    No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Case | 43 comments (43 topical)
    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 07:59:40 PM EST
    What the hell WERE these kids doing with the phones? They were clearly up to no good. No there was not a DIRECT link to any terrorist group, but how about an indirect one?

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 08:10:52 PM EST
    They were buying the phones to resell them and make money for school. They are on summer vacation from college.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 09:08:45 PM EST
    Ok, but who is buying them and why?

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 09:18:20 PM EST
    Terrorists, of course. After all, who else would buy a cell phone? Only terrorists have cell phones anymore. Under your bed? That's right: a terrorist. NOW you're catching on.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#5)
    by Lww on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 09:21:12 PM EST
    NPR had a story on Michigan Arab-Americans who trade in stuff like this. They turn a quick profit. Love the egg on the face pic, but Bush makes Gotti look like the velcro Don.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#6)
    by Lww on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 09:24:37 PM EST
    Sorry, Bush does have a bigger head.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#7)
    by Gabriel Malor on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 09:58:49 PM EST
    Oh yeah, no reason at all to be suspicious.
    Sheriff's deputies stopped the men on a traffic violation Aug. 8 and found 12 cell phones, $11,000 cash and airplane passenger lists and information on airport security checkpoints in their car.
    Airplane passenger lists, airport security? Students reselling phones during summer vacation always have stuff like that lying around. $11,000 dollars? Shoot, I should quit law school and get into the cell phone re-selling business.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 10:30:32 PM EST
    There was NBO specific information on Yea but like the FBI determined -- WHEN THE LEFT AND NEVER RETURNED after the first two hour interview -- the sheriff deputies wqhere nothing more than a bunch of racist bumblers. there was a pamphlet from a seminar handed out to the guys mother who works in airport as a gate agent. There were no passenger lists. there was a simple chekoff list like tens of thousands probably floating around in airport works vehicles. not a thing supsicious in fact. $11,000 is what you would need to do this deal. after gas, taxes expenses you would end up netting about 7k or $3,400 a piece for two weeks work. Ok, but who is buying them and why? the cards are sold at gas stations, newstands and on ebay. you can find them listed by the hundreds right now,. the 300 plus card that came with this deal is worth about $28. the phone battery is worth about $8. the charger isn't worth much. Also 1) these Phones cannot be used as detonators. the cards were removed for resale. once removed minutes can be transfered to existing tracfones, but the phone can never be activated with out the orignal card the first time. 2) the bridge they took the picture on is one of the most photographed in the world. everyone who vists there takes a picture! Arab Ameircans are the one group of moslems LEAST likely to attack America. White Americans like Timn McVeigh are who we need to profile. Five years after 911 and not one Al Queda attack by Arab americans. Two subway bombings in Lodon and Madrid by UK and Spanish citizens and no simlar event in the US.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 10:56:04 PM EST
    There was an interesting article about this on boingboing earlier today.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#10)
    by Gabriel Malor on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 11:15:29 PM EST
    Arab Ameircans are the one group of moslems LEAST likely to attack America. White Americans like Timn McVeigh are who we need to profile.
    Um, wha? March 6, 1973: Car bombs are discovered outside the El Al terminal at JFK, First Israel Bank and Trust, and the Israel Discount Bank. An Iraqi member of the Palestinian Liberation Authority was captured in Italy and tried in New York in 1993. October 8, 1982: Bomb explodes outside the Jewish Defense League. Responsibility claimed on behalf of the Palestinian people. November 5, 1990: Rabbi and founder of the Jewish Defense League is assassinated by El Sayyid A Nosair. He was a naturalized American of Egyptian origin. February 26, 1993: The World Trade Center is bombed. In all 10 men, some Palestinian, some from Saudi Arabia, and some from Egypt, are tried and convicted. April 1, 1993: Four members of Abu Nadal's extremist Palestinian organization are arrested for plotting to bomb the Israeli Embassy in Washington DC. All four had been living in the US for almost a decade. June 1993: The New York City landmark bomb plot. Meant as a follow-up to the WTC bombing, 10 men--all followers of the same Muslim cleric who directed the February WTC bombing-- were arrested and convicted. March 1, 1994: A Lebanese Druze naturalized American fired on a bus full of Jewish students in New York City. He killed one and injured three. February 23, 1997: Palestinian Ali Hassan Abu Kamal shoots up the observation deck on the Empire State Building. One death, five wounded. Claimed that the US used Israel as a weapon against the Palestinians. July 31, 1997: Two Palestinians, ostensibly seeking asylum, have a shoot out with police in New York. They had constructed bombs and planned to carry out suicide attacks if the 1993 WTC bombers were not released from prison. [Boy that WTC bombing kept coming back to haunt us...] September 11th: Um, yeah. July 4, 2002: Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, a 41-year-old Egyptian national shoots up the El Al terminal at LAX. Two dead, four wounded. So, there's a handy list. The larger point is that of course white anarchists are being watched by the government. What ever made you think that they weren't?

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 11:16:55 PM EST
    Gabe, you missed this:
    They also said the airport and airplane information were old papers left in the car by a relative who worked at an airport.
    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#12)
    by Gabriel Malor on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 11:25:56 PM EST
    From the article:
    Defense lawyers have said the flight information consisted of old papers left in the car by a relative who worked at an airport.
    1. I expect the defense lawyers to make a vigorous defense for their clients. 2. I also expect that the truth will be discovered. 3. This is a case where everyone should be rejoicing because the system worked. Pretextual stops have long been legal and the suspects did consent to the search of the car. It is not unreasonable that police, finding the materials that they found, would have greater suspicions.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 12:54:22 AM EST
    Gabe, you forgot to mention the scary Arabs that frightened an old lady in a Georgia diner and of course the paranoid ditz who was freaked out by the Syrian Wayne Newton. But hey at least these kids didn't get shot, so maybe they should be thankful.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 06:55:17 AM EST
    TL.... They were buying the phones to resell them and make money for school. And you believe that BS? How much can they make per phone...? And why take them apart and throw away the chargers? Something very fishy there... but no DIRECT link could be found so they go free. Isn't America wonderful? BTW the egg on the face pic was not necessary. He's only trying to do his job. We all expect that don't we? The real egg would be if he ignored them and they ended up blowing something up. Gabriel... Airplane passenger lists, airport security? Now now..let's not jump to conclusions. These are nice sweat 'innocent' lads here.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#15)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 06:58:00 AM EST
    Why buy retail if you want to make money on cell phones? This makes no sense. You should get a better price on a 1000 phone purchase from a wholesaler. But there would be a record that you bought. It seems these lads went out of their way and accepted higher cost to have untraceable phones. Is that a crime? No. But neither is taking flight lessons. This may be a case of tax evasion.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 07:13:18 AM EST
    Arab Ameircans are the one group of moslems LEAST likely to attack America. White Americans like Timn McVeigh are who we need to profile. I'm 5 years old and my parents let me stay up late to watch the primary election of their boy, Bobby Kennedy, in Los Angeles where we lived. I was so excited. He was going to be the president! Imagine the excitement of a 5 year old boy! Imagine the horror of his mother crying and father screaming at the t.v. when an Arab-American snuffed out their hopes with a gun. His name is Sirhan Sirhan. He is an Arab-American. Every single one of us profiles. It's late at night and you have to stop at an ATM. An old lady is behind you or two men with tattoos and doo rags. Which one do you feel most afraid of? While there's some irrationality to racial profiling, there is also some logic to it as well. To limit investigations to racial profiling is just as stupid (and evil) as not considering it.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 07:32:42 AM EST
    Abdul Abulbul Amir-
    Why buy retail if you want to make money on cell phones? This makes no sense. You should get a better price on a 1000 phone purchase from a wholesaler.
    Maybe you could offer to be their business consultant. Together, with their ambition and your know how you would all be millionaires in no time. BTW-There are some kids down the street selling lemonade and I think that they need some help too. I am afraid, since they are brown skinned that they will be picked up as terrorists because they are not making money, Liquid explosives and all....

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 07:55:12 AM EST
    Airplane passenger lists, airport security? Students reselling phones during summer vacation always have stuff like that lying around.
    Read the article for an explanation, and if you don't believe the explanation ask yourself why the fbi and cops wouldn't crow to the moon if they found an alternative explanation. Making $18,000 driving around the country buying and selling phones for the summer sounds like a fun way to earm money for college.
    Shoot, I should quit law school and get into the cell phone re-selling business.
    I certainly agree with the quit law school part.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 08:15:30 AM EST
    Gabe you are confused. You cited fighting between the terrorist JDL and people they attacked. You forgot to mention the criminal convictions of JDL people. Are you saying Jewish terrorism was rampant at the time? The rest of your example are imported Moslems, not Moslem Americans. bocajeff: Hate is hate and one could point out the fact that the American immigrant group most likey to commit outright treason to the US, are Jews. The Rosenbergs put the US in more danger than any citizens in history. Pollard gave information that ended up in Soviet hands that resulting in the deaths of many of our key agents, and huge compromise of US security. The ethnic group most over represented in suppoort of communism after the Soviets emerged as our biggest threat were Jews. Given those facts, are you supporting mass suspicion of Jewish Americans? If I bought 100 cell phones would you jail and slander me? would you express outright anti-semitism? But it is funny how many people are willing to do it to another population. If you subscribe to group blame, group suspicion and racial profiling that is the camp you are in. We know thesde guys are completely innocent yet some are contuing with the hate speech. As to your contention that racial profiling, as was the case here, is helpful, sorry even in practical terms it is harmful. Timothy McVeigh was caught by accident, stopped on a completely rural road by an officer who IGNORED the profiling and the mass of pundits and experts who were certain the bombing was done by Arabs. Policing derives from finite resources. If a the cop were profiling we might still be blaming the Moslems and never know who McVeigh was. By the way you know Sirhan Sirhan was a Maronite Christian, right?

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 08:23:19 AM EST
    Why buy retail if you want to make money on cell phones? This makes no sense. You should get a better price on a 1000 phone purchase from a wholesaler. But there would be a record that you bought. It seems these lads went out of their way and accepted higher cost to have untraceable phones. Is that a crime? No. But neither is taking flight lessons. This may be a case of tax evasion. fake name abdullah. You did not read any of the coverage. Cell phones which everyone on the planet has and flight lessons have nothing in common. The flight lessons you refer to include no Moslem Ameircans. NOT ONE. You don't buy loss leaders from the wholesaler!LOL you would fail business 101. You buy loss leaders at the retail level and resell. Back to school. Also if you are going to use the terrorism laws for petty tax evasion (which is actually very unlikly in this case) you are urging a use specifically refuted by all the backers of the patriot act and other anti terrorism laws.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#21)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 08:25:45 AM EST
    Maybe you could offer to be their business consultant. Together, with their ambition and your know how you would all be millionaires in no time. BTW-There are some kids down the street selling lemonade and I think that they need some help too. I am afraid, since they are brown skinned that they will be picked up as terrorists because they are not making money, Liquid explosives and all....
    Skin color has nothing to do with suspicious behavior. If the goal was to make money, then there has been no explanation for accepting higher cost than necessary. You don't need a business consultant to know that.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 08:33:47 AM EST
    Illegal to buy phones now? Freedom's dead baby. At least the official state-sanctioned version. Dead as a door nail.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#23)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 10:03:51 AM EST
    At least one of the guys is married and has a child - at what point does such a person stop being described as a "kid?" One of articles I googled described how the guys went to the Wal-Marts in the early AM hours successfully finding inexperienced or unknowledgable staff such they could exceed (mightily) Wal-Mart's policy of selling only three of these phones/customer. They also were stopped earlier in the summer and questioned by the FBI for this exact activity. Why are the phones restricted in this way? Why was a married father, 1000's of miles away from his family, involved with something he knew was so sketchy? Who knows what will be found on the laptop? The airport list was left in the car by a relative?! "You're under arrest for the heroine in your pocket." "B-b-but officer, it's not mine! Really! It's my uncle's!" Lastly, tying in with another TL pet peeve, it looks like one of the "kids" is also a Texas registered sex offender, victim age: 5 years old. (I know, I know, the guy below has a different middle name. I can't explain it except that several of the articles I googled said he was a Texas RSO, and the pics of the RSO below are almost assuredly the same guy arrested for the cell phones.) OTHMAN,ADHAM JACOB DPS Number DOB Risk Level Sex Race 04788936 11/25/1984 NOT AVAILABLE MALE White Height Weight Eye Color Hair Color Shoe Size 504 090 BRO BLK 007 Sex Offender Photo Photo(s) This is the Current Photo 06-29-2006 Click to view all 9 photo(s) Alias Names Name OTHMAN,ADHAM OTHMAN,ADHAM J Sex Offender Registration Record Date Agency 11/12/1999 TX0571800 MESQUITE PD Sex Offender Verification Record Date Agency 06/27/2006 TX0571800 MESQUITE PD Sex Offender Address Current Address Street 2119 HIllcrest St Apartment 267 City Mesquite County DALLAS State TX Zip Code 75149 Offense Data Sex Offender Offense Offense 36010001 Indecency w/child Sexual Contact General Offense Code Counts 1 Victim's Sex Female Victim's Age 5.0 Disposition Date 11/10/1999 Time 2Y Status JPO

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#24)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 10:09:54 AM EST
    At least one of the guys is married and has a child - at what point does such a person stop being described as a "kid?" One of articles I googled described how the guys went to the Wal-Marts in the early AM hours successfully finding inexperienced or unknowledgable staff such they could exceed (mightily) Wal-Mart's policy of selling only three of these phones/customer. They also were stopped earlier in the summer and questioned by the FBI for this exact activity. Why are the phones restricted in this way? Why was a married father, 1000's of miles away from his family, involved with something he knew was so sketchy? Who knows what will be found on the laptop? The airport list was left in the car by a relative?! "You're under arrest for the heroine in your pocket." "B-b-but officer, it's not mine! Really! It's my uncle's!" Lastly, tying in with another TL pet peeve, it looks like one of the "kids" is also a Texas registered sex offender, victim age: 5 years old. (I know, I know, the guy below has a different middle name. I can't explain it except that several of the articles I googled said he was a Texas RSO, and the pics of the RSO below are almost assuredly the same guy arrested for the cell phones.) OTHMAN,ADHAM JACOB DPS Number DOB Risk Level Sex Race 04788936 11/25/1984 NOT AVAILABLE MALE White Height Weight Eye Color Hair Color Shoe Size 504 090 BRO BLK 007 Sex Offender Photo Photo(s) This is the Current Photo 06-29-2006 Click to view all 9 photo(s) Alias Names Name OTHMAN,ADHAM OTHMAN,ADHAM J Sex Offender Registration Record Date Agency 11/12/1999 TX0571800 MESQUITE PD Sex Offender Verification Record Date Agency 06/27/2006 TX0571800 MESQUITE PD Sex Offender Address Current Address Street 2119 HIllcrest St Apartment 267 City Mesquite County DALLAS State TX Zip Code 75149 Offense Data Sex Offender Offense Offense 36010001 Indecency w/child Sexual Contact General Offense Code Counts 1 Victim's Sex Female Victim's Age 5.0 Disposition Date 11/10/1999 Time 2Y Status JPO

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 10:39:51 AM EST
    Abdul Abulbul Amir -
    If the goal was to make money, then there has been no explanation for accepting higher cost than necessary. You don't need a business consultant to know that.
    Really? Do you ever see people buying things that you have seen for less money elswhere? I have. I still think that with your business smarts and their ambition you all could make millions. You would have to get a makeover though. I have heard that people that look like terrorists and have arabic sounding names get arrested these days, you know racial profiling and all.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#26)
    by roy on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 10:48:06 AM EST
    SUO, AAA, BB, Gabriel, Granola, Yeah, the large quanity of cash and airline info is fishy. The prosecutor had the opportunity to look for real evidence and found none, so why are you still stuck on the merely fishy? Why focus on the initial impressions, to the exclusion of the followup? After a thorough investigation by The Man, it looks like the only thing these guys did wrong was have a wonky business plan. If that's the dumbest thing they do while in college, they're going to set the curve.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#27)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 10:56:28 AM EST
    roy, is the investigation finished? It may well be and I missed that, but I was under the impression that it was ongoing... For example, have they decided the laptop has nothing incriminating on it?

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#28)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 11:09:39 AM EST
    Oh for heaven's sake, I completely skimmed over the first sentance...
    The FBI said Monday it had no information to indicate that the three Texas men arrested with about 1,000 cell phones in their van had any direct connection to known terrorist groups.
    ...I thought TL's headline was their construct, not a matter of fact. Sorry to all!

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 12:26:32 PM EST
    I guess these guys don't make national news and get labelled potential terrorists or that they have "ties to al qeada" because their names aren't Hassan or Mohammed. House full of improvised explosives Rocket enthusiast collects military weapons But these people are white and would make a silly national headline about terrorism. If they were Middle Eastern, then they'd probably be interrogated endlessly by the FBI and put on the national news to scare everyone.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#30)
    by ltgesq on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 08:41:54 PM EST
    You are not supposed to arrest people unless there is probable cause to beleive a crime has been committed. A hunch, or supposition is not supposed to be what we base incarceration on. The investigation should precede the arrest, not follow the arrest. We sure live in strange times.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 08:53:49 PM EST
    The egg on the face is ridiculous. He just can't prove a DIRECT terror connection. What do you think the end users were going to do with these phones and why didn't they just go to Walmart and buy them themselves?

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#32)
    by Sailor on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 09:27:53 PM EST
    What do you think the end users were going to do with these phones
    Make phone calls. [muttering under breath(we obviously need more clorox in the gene pool)] I'm sorry, did I say that out loud!?

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 09:33:55 PM EST
    I knew one of you geniuses would say that, but why can't you answer the second question? That was a real A- hole remark sailor!

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#34)
    by roy on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 07:13:04 AM EST
    ...and why didn't they just go to Walmart and buy them themselves?
    'cuz the local Wal-Mart was more expensive, and it's not cost-effective to drive cross-country to buy just one phone for a few bucks less. From what I've read, the students planned to buy phones in bulk, much cheaper per phone than what was available in Texas. Then resell them in Texas for more than they had paid, but less than Texas retailers charge, for a profit. Really, really, extremely ordinary business proposition. They should have contacted a wholesaler, and they should have used something safer than cash to pay, but it's not a complicated story. Now, would you care to address my question from yesterday morning? Why are you still focused on the initial reports, while disregarding the results of the more detailed investigation?

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#35)
    by roy on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 07:32:12 AM EST
    It's like the police found a box labeled "anthrax". Understandably, the police are concerned, and they investigate. Inside the box is a bunny rabbit. Lab results reveal that the bunny rabbit is not infected by anthrax. The cops decide to release the bunny rabbit (or maybe grill it, it depends on how much influence Texas has in the investigation), but some people object only because the box said "anthrax". "Turns out it isn't anthrax after all. It's a bunny rabbit." "But, it said 'anthrax'." "We should treat it though it is a bunny rabbit." "Why aren't you taking the anthrax threat seriously?" "Dude, bunny rabbit." "Think how many people could be killed by a box full of anthrax."

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 10:00:42 AM EST
    et al - Here is a link to the Marietta case. Here is the chilling part:
    The two men acknowledged buying more than 600 phones within the past month at stores in southeast Ohio, according to authorities. Investigators said they sold the phones to someone in Dearborn, a Detroit suburb. Schneider said he is aware of cases where TracFones are being modified to make untraceable international calls and also in the production of roadside bombs. But, he said his office has learned of other groups that are buying and selling the phones for seemingly legitimate purposes. "We're going to wait and see where this investigation leads us," Schneider said.
    Let me see, someone (a person) is buying 600 or so cell phones, for more money than that person could buy them from WalMart and/or Radio Shack? Who in the &^&^$%$ is going to believe that? We can thank the NYTimes for telling your garden variety terrorist that their telephones are being watched, so now the are using Trackphones. The others are used as detonators in IAD's and carbombs...

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#37)
    by Sailor on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 10:49:47 AM EST
    The men had been held on $200,000 bond, but when the charges were dismissed Tuesday, the amount was reduced to $1,000 each, which was posted.
    Hey, I know of cases where people used plumbing supplies to make pipe bombs, therefore any brown skinned person buying plumbing supplies is a terrerist.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#38)
    by Dark Avenger on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 10:54:36 AM EST
    The release also said the FBI had no information indicating that the men, Palestinian-Americans living in Texas, had any direct links to any known terrorist groups Forgot that part, PPJ? As for buying them for more than they would've spent at Wal-Mart, Radio Shack, etc., that only proves they're good business men, who are able to turn a profit despite not having perhaps the greatest purchasing skills in the world. They made money while not being the swiftest tools in the shed at the same time. You should be able to relate to their situation, PPJ :>)

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 12:28:48 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - Leaving aside your typical BS, I note that I provided a link... And you fail, as usual, to get the point, which is simply this. According to an investigator, they claim to have sold 600 of these cellphones to "someone" in Detroit/Dearborn. Now "someone" means "ONE." Now it is possible that they have a fool in Detroit that has bought over 600 cellphones from them AT A HIGHER PRICE THAN HE/SHE COULD HAVE PAID FOR AT WALMART OR RADIOSHACK, BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. But, even if they found a fool in Detroit to do this, why are they buying them in Marietta, OH, some 300 miles fro Detroit? Were there no tracphones in Detroit for them to purchase? My guess? They're gonna cut'em loose and see where they run. This story just doesn't add up.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 01:14:22 PM EST
    roy - First, I doubt that a TracPhone is any cheaper in Texas than in Detroit. Secondy, they weren't buying them in Texas, but in Marietta, Ohio. So I really doubt they were cheaper. From 100 Main St in Marrietta, OH to 100 Main St in Detroit is 413 miles. That's 826 miles round trip, at 20 miles per gallon that's 42 gallons of gas or $126, plus expenses for a two day trip of, let's say $150. So with expenses of $276, they would have to make $5.00 per phone and sell 56 to break even... Doesn't make sense. It aint a bunny rabbit.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#41)
    by Dark Avenger on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 01:25:52 PM EST
    and you fail, as usual, to get the point Well, you needn't be so jealous, you'll get a chance to fail soon, PPJ.
    Now "someone" means "ONE." Now it is possible that they have a fool in Detroit that has bought over 600 cellphones from them AT A HIGHER PRICE THAN HE/SHE COULD HAVE PAID FOR AT WALMART OR RADIOSHACK, BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
    PPJ, I don't see any basis in the article for your assertion about the price of the cell phones vis-a-vis WalMart, Radio Shack, etc. Also, the 'truthiness' of your assertions doesn't increase when you type something in all caps, but the probability of you reaching or having achieved wingnut escape velocity(out of this world) is increased by 75.367%, FYI. But, even if they found a fool in Detroit to do this, why are they buying them in Marietta, OH, some 300 miles fro Detroit Perhaps they found that they could obtain them cheaper in OH than in MI. Did you ever think of that? No? I'm not surprised. Were there no tracphones in Detroit for them to purchase? I dunno. Anyone here from Detroit and owns a tracphone? This story just doesn't add up. As Sigmund Freud once remarked
    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#42)
    by Sailor on Wed Aug 16, 2006 at 02:19:46 PM EST
    First, I doubt that a TracPhone is any cheaper in Texas than in Detroit.
    come back when you actually have some facts instead of just your hatred of all muslims.

    Re: No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Ca (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 24, 2006 at 09:08:46 AM EST
    I too deal in these phones. Here are the facts of why buy them... 1st, they are a loss-leader. For those of you who don't know what that means...it is when a vendor sells a product at a loss in the hope it will generate more business. A great example of this is when Coke is on sale at the grocery for 5-12 packs for $2 each. The grocery hopes to recoup with the loss on Coke by other items you buy while you are in the store. In this case, the cellular provider hopes to sell you other minutes for your phone. It should be pointed out that the carriers that sell the phones at the lowest prices, in fact also have the highest priced airtime cards to refill the phones. Tracfone takes a loss on the phone, or so they claim. They hope to make up for it on future airtime purchases that customer would make. The problem is that you are under no contract to purchase any airtime. So Tracfone and others take a loss if you don't buy airtime. So what? It is not the consumer who came up with this business model...it is the carrier. It should also be pointed out that if they did raise the price of the phone, they would also have to lower the price of airtime. Afterall who would buy a phone of the same price and pay 3 or 4 times the airtime cost per minute. Nobody. This business model works fine to hook people with a low cost phone. Folks are impulsive and tight fisted by nature. Afterall when they buy the phone it comes with minutes...so why worry about the cost of operating it till later. $20 is a cheap way to pick up a new phone, right? So buy it. Later you'll worry about .20-.33 cents per minute. OK so nothing illegal about buying and not using. Still remember who is upset here. Not the retailer...they profitted. But the vendor is way ticked if you don't buy those cards. 2)Next, why limit them? Who wants to? Again not the store selling them. The vendor pushes not to sell it in bulk, because they know that nobody can buy direct even from the manufacturer at this price. The $20 is claimed to cost Tracfone in reports between $50-$70 per. 3)Which bright person thinks terrorists purchased 800,000 phones from america? My next question is do you truly believe they need to buy from America and expose themselves in this fashion? Do they need to buy at all? Couldn't they simply steal a couple of phones in their own country? Contrary to popular opinion, they sort of like to remain anonimous till they take the big journey to Allah, don't they? Duh. 4)So now you can see why cellular providers hate resellers. You should also ask yourself this very question...who spreads the 'terrorism gossip about cellular phones' in the first place? If we were concerned about every item terrorists twist into weapons, we would have to show ID just to buy dishsoap, boxcutters, shoes, plastic bags, chapstick...the list is endless. And whenever you feel comfy with your 'watch list' of products...they will discover even more ways to harm us. The fear some companies push is proof of that. The only way to truly defeat terrorism is either sacrafice each and every one of the peoples, good and bad, of the group who is terrorizing...or find out why they are so mad to do this, and fix it. 5)The government is now claiming that it is counterfeiting phones to erase software in a cellphone, and resell it. That is what they are charging in the case of the michigan men. It is no longer a Nokia phone if you erase the carrier, Tracfone's software. Kind of like saying that an HP computer that came with windows...you delete windows...it is no longer an HP computer. And whatever you do don't install Linux and resell the computer to china. It really isn't an HP then. It is a counterfeit HP. HP somehow quit being the manufacturer and you did. 6)Also the issue at hand is locking of cellular phones. Is it legal to make a consumer who purchased a product outright, to be forced to use their future goods because of software that locks anyone else from providing you that good? That is exactly what cellular service providers do. The US Circourt Court from all across the land said no way...you can't enslave a buyer to buy only from you. It is not trademark or copyright infringement for them to use the competition. Begin your study with the Lexmark case history, you will find many others as well. 7)So if we are not foolish enough to take on a company's business model as federal law. If we understand that the phone sells readily here cheaply. If we also know where is sells for more money. If the phone is a Nokia phone here or anyplace else in the world. If companies shouldn't be allowed to twist the DCMA act. Then what crime was committed? In America, when a product is sold legally across a counter to anyone with the money, and you can sell your new property for more...that is called free enterprise. The true terrorism comes when we allow others, companies stirring the pot to protect their billion dollar collective butts and poor business model, to instill fear in us, for the priviledges we enjoy.

    No Terror Connection in Michigan Cell Phone Case | 43 comments (43 topical)