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Open Thread

I see lots of news out there, but I'll be offline most of the day. Here's a place to talk about it.

Update: In the coincidence department: Has anyone noticed that the name of the father of one of the accused in the Duke Lacrosse case is Kevin Finnerty, the same name as the guy who switched identites with Tony Soprano in the dream sequences in episodes 1 and 2 of the Sopranos? You gotta feel for the guy.

Second, does anyone want to take bets on when Gloria Allred will step in to represent the accuser in the Duke case purportedly pro bono (but of course for the book rights)?

On a completely unrelated topic, Crooks and Liars reports on a new Fox News poll showing Bush's approval ratings have slipped to 33%.

"President Bush's job approval rating slipped this week and stands at a new low of 33 percent approve, down from 36 percent two weeks ago and 39 percent in mid-March."

Also, Wendy Murphy and I will do another of our shout-fests on the Alan Colmes radio show tonight while we debate whether the accuser's name in the Duke case should be public. I think it's at 10:30 ET. My views are here.

Update: How Appealing has moved, update your bookmarks so you don't miss out on a great blog with news of appellate court decisions and related items.

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    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 12:02:44 PM EST
    Juan Cole has been offered a position at Yale. Daniel Pipes is doing his darndest to derail the appointment. These guys are disgusting. They blackmail liberal jews and others with tar and feather charges of anti-semitism if they do not support the ultra right wing policy of Likud. Translation: kill all Palestinians and take their land. If they want to relocate to Africa or China all the better, but get off the land. Cole puts the whole stinking thing into words, it is worth a read as these garbagebags have the biggest influence on American Foreign Policy today. Juan Cole

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Peaches on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 12:04:23 PM EST
    ppj has been quiet for awhile. We had better give him something to talk about. There is a review in the New York Times on a film called Sir! No Sir!. From the review:
    On one level the film serves as a corrective to the rah-rah rhetoric about Vietnam in such schlock entertainments as the 1980's "Rambo" franchise, in which Sylvester Stallone's veteran turned mercenary ritualistically wipes away the spit lobbed at him by a phantom antiwar protester. The image of the spat-upon Vietnam veteran, explains Jerry Lembcke, himself a Vietnam veteran and one of the persuasive talking heads who appears in the new film, helped maintain the important fiction that opposition to the war came strictly from outside the military.
    Interesting. Jim? I know its a review in the Times. But how bout this?
    John Kerry's bid for president proved that long after fighting in Vietnam came to an end, a war of words continues to rage. It's a war of words that finds Jane Fonda -- who performed for tens of thousands of troops in an antiwar revue, "Free the Army," and makes a passionate appearance in the film -- still labeled Hanoi Jane. "Remembered as a war that was lost because of betrayal at home," Mr. Lembcke has written, "Vietnam becomes a modern-day Alamo that must be avenged, a pretext for more war and generations of more veterans." In "Sir! No Sir!," Mr. Zeiger remembers that war and the veterans whose struggles against it are too often forgotten.
    Well, I know what Jim will say, but I need to spice up my day a bit.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 12:17:40 PM EST
    Today may be your lucky day peaches. PPJ loves Daniel Pipes. Let's watch him really debase himself and defend the creep.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by scribe on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 12:22:53 PM EST
    I note today's NYT gives one and one-half column inches deep on an interior page to the decision of the appeals court in Texas on Spray-boy DeLay's indictment. Short version - they affirmed the decision of the trial court to dismiss one of the conspiracy charges against the Squirt. The remaining charges, not dismissed in the trial court, continue to stand.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by desertswine on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 12:24:23 PM EST
    Thanks for that link, Squeaky. I see that Cole actually wrote that piece in Dec 04 so this is nothing new to him. Cole is still one of the best sources of Mid-east analysis on the web. I hope he goes to Yale, if he wants to.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 12:41:37 PM EST
    I agree desertwine, that Cole is a huge and unparalleled resource for the goings on in the mid-east and muslim world. In terms of Cole's article being a re-write from 2004 he answers that succinctly:
    You really only have to write the reply once; the smears don't change over time.


    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 12:49:30 PM EST
    FOX News Poll: Bush 33%
    Crooks & Liars The gravitational effects on slime's downward slither should come as no surprise.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 12:57:31 PM EST
    Peaches... helped maintain the important fiction that opposition to the war came strictly from outside the military. As a Viet Nam combat veteran I can assure you that nobody I knew believed (or ever said) that opposition to the war was only outside the military. Not sure where that "important fiction" BS came from? Not many people actually involed in combat are 'for' a war... however, once you are in the military, it's your duty to follow orders. I protested the war, but once I was drafted, I went and did my duty. We all 'protested' the war in our own little ways once in... fragging our commanding officers wasn't one of them however. Athough I'm sure that did happen, this article (movie) makes it sound very common place and I can assure you it wasn't. As far as being harrased (spit at), that was more common than I'd like to admit and for the first time in history, we were allowed to travel in civilian clothes in order to minimize that potential. Bottom line though... this current war and the one in Viet Nam have very little in common, even though many libs would love to band them together.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Peaches on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:17:53 PM EST
    bb, I didn't see the movie, I only read the review. But, the article mentions fraggings once, mentioning they were on the rise.
    Desertions were on the rise, as were fraggings, named for the fragmentation grenades lobbed at superiors by their own men.
    I am sure it wasn't commonplace, but as you say, it happened. I won't go over the similarities between the two wars, because both the similarities and differences have been well documented. But one big difference is that we now have a volunteer force instead of a draft. Thus, there might be less of a resistance to the war within the military now than there was then. That is just speculation though. Anyway, bb, thanks for doing your duty. Now go back to being a wingnut. ;)

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by scribe on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:18:21 PM EST
    TL: Yeah, I noticed the Finnerty thing but didn't want to say anything. OT a little, deadspin reports someone's selling tasteless T-shirts on EBay busting on the DA (rarely if ever a smart move), (b) another newspaper in the Duke area says they can't confirm the taxicab story, and (c) both Finnerty and Seligman got bailed out by posting $400k cash each. One of them couldn't leave the police station until 9:30 am because they had to wait for the bank to open to issue the cashier's check. I think I screwed up the linking bit... [You did but I fixed it, thanks for letting me know.]

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:22:46 PM EST
    What's everybody paying for gasoline? I paid 3.17 for regular this morning...ouch. The Daily News reported yesterday on a station in Brooklyn selling premium for 4.50 a gallon. Today they reported the same station dropped the price to 3.90....interesting. TL...guess who the Finnerty's neighbor is...soap star Susan Lucci. Can we get from Lucci to Gandolfini in 6 steps?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by eric on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:28:02 PM EST
    http://www.kevinfinnerty.com/

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Peaches on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:35:22 PM EST
    KDOG, Oil rose to over $72 per barrell today.
    Oil prices settled at a record high for the third straight day on Wednesday after weekly government data showed a drop in U.S. gasoline stocks, raising worries that refiners don't have an adequate inventory cushion ahead of the peak summer season.
    I drive an Echo and get a little over 40 mpg, so my pocketbook isn't feeling it too bad. But, this is going to hurt our economy and soon. Can't figure out why the boys on Wall street are all giddy over the Feds indications that rate increases are about to end. There are still strong indications of inflation, oil producing nations are looking for other places to put there money than US assets, and oil is about to shoot through the roof. When it is a choice between inflation and the economy (growth) the fed always chooses inflation. Once inflation rises, the feds will raise rates agian. Bondholders will demand it. We're in for a big economic hurt and it is going to start this summer.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:44:53 PM EST
    I can't help but wonder if all of Iran's nuke bluster is just a ruse to make oil prices skyrocket.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:45:23 PM EST
    Here goes: Susan Lucci was in Ebbie with Taran Noah Smith. Taran Noah Smith was in Home Improvement with Tim Allen. Tim Allen was in Who is Cletis Tout? with Christian Slater. Christian Slater is in (one of my all time favorites, btw) True Romance with James Gandolfini

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:49:04 PM EST
    Peaches - Glad you're thinking of me, and illustrating, again, your lack of knowledge about the invasion of communist North Vietnam into South Vietnam. If you are intersted, we have this from Bui Tin of North Vietnam's General Staff.
    And the left: "Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9AM to follow the growth of the antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and would struggle along with us .... those people represented the conscience of America .... part of it's war- making capability, and we turning that power in our favor." Bui Tin went on to serve as the editor of the People's Daily, the official newspaper of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. Disillusioned with the reality of Vietnamese communism Bui Tin now lives in Paris.
    Now I know that the above won't slow down your usual blathering, but perhaps some youngster will pick it up and decide to do some reading. And after awhile maybe that youngster will say, "Holy BS, Left Wingers. The Left actually lost the lost war by putting enough political pressire on some weak politicans to pull out." There now. You may return to your usual snarking.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by scribe on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:49:43 PM EST
    re: Gloria Allred. Interesting confluence of events - Bashman* has a link today to a law.com story about two lawyers who took a pro bono case of an innocent convicted and won after about 15 years of litigation. They recently sold their story to Hollywood, they're to be played by Damon and Affleck. The article spends a lot of time, in that lawyer-newspaper way, on the ins and outs of selling one's story and the pitfalls and such. Allred is likely already on the scene... maybe even running that end of the show. All I can say is: if this is the summer's big show trial, I hope whichever "reporter" CourtTV puts on the case packs cool clothing. North Carolina in the summer is the hottest place on earth. * He's updated his blog and it looks really good.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:54:22 PM EST
    Well done jess...well done. True Romance was on Cinemax last night....great flick. "Floyd smoked the second page of the letter!"

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Peaches on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:55:15 PM EST
    Not a bad speculation KDOG, The question is who would be responsible for the ruse. Iran? The US? or both. Its a tangled web. When Oil prices rise, profits for oil companies go up. The price is set by demand and supply and not by the cost of pumping and shipping oil to consumers. World Demand is high and rising and Supply can't keep up because suppley is limited. Taking Iraq and Iran off the market limits supply even more. PRofits rise for the remaining countries. Perhaps Iran wants part of those profits too. So, they concoct a ruse with the US. ahhh, conspiracies. But, there is some rationale. And, if you think about it, we've been told. "It's the profit motive. Nothing wrong with going after a little more profit. There is nothing immoral about that. Why are you so mad at people making money? You must be envious." So, if you let profit be your moral guide, why not concoct such a scheme to make a little more money.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:57:34 PM EST
    I wouldn't doubt the possibility peaches. Not for a second.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Peaches on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:59:29 PM EST
    Thanks ppj, I was worried. I thought you might have had a stroke or something. But, you never disappoint. Thanks for being you.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 02:07:00 PM EST
    I have been thinking a lot about our war on terror and how much safer we were to become by fighting the imported terrorists in Iraq and it sickens me to no end that our troop commitment in Iraq puts us in a precarious position with Iran. Recent history demonstrates that garnering military support to strategically bomb potential nuclear sites in Iran would not include the UK nor the rest of Europe. We knew this 3 years ago when the decision was made to attack Iraq. Historically speaking, most countries defer to the UN to seek sanctions prior to any military actions and the only country with active sanctions against Iran is the US (to the best of my knowledge). Securing the votes for sanctions would be very difficult and even if they were obtained we are looking at 2-5 years before they have any meaningful effects. In that time Iran will have at least one nuclear warhead if not several. This administration in my opinion put this nation at serious risk with the invasion of Iraq as it allowed North Korea to build a nuclear weapon as well as providing Iran with the opportunity to do so as well based on the quagmire we have in Iraq. Iraq was devastated by our selective bombing and sanctions and were incapable of producing WMD on any vast scale, let alone a nuclear weapon. Iran has made several overtures as to the destruction of Israel as well as inflicting pain on US (their current military is incapable of inflicting much damage over here). Ahmedanijad is far more dangerous than Hussein ever was and based on Russia/Chinas desire to leve the playing field in the ME my guess is that they will turn a blind eye to uranium enrichment. Many on the left predicted we would become less safe, and I for one feel a hell of a lot less safe for South Korea and Israel than I did 5 years ago. We have not strengthened our relationships with our allies in the past 4 years and it is becoming all the more evident every day. I would say the decision to invade Iraq was one of the more costlier decisions in the past century based on the threat of nuclear development in Iran and the actual development in Iraq. Our ability to conduct strategic strikes in Iran is severely hampered by the past few years of poor foreign policy specific to strengthening relationships with allies and an unnecessary war. It is more than just saying "we are not safer" as a result of the policies and decisions, our overseas allies and US are in more peril. Sad.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 02:08:19 PM EST
    kdog, TR is my favorite movie of all time. "and some cleaning products....."

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 02:16:39 PM EST
    kdog: I can't help but wonder if all of Iran's nuke bluster is just a ruse to make oil prices skyrocket. That might be part of it, but there are some whose concerns run towards some parallels between bushco's blustering and the old legend of Nixon wanting to appear crazy to Hanoi as a negotiating tactic. Playing nuclear chicken games with all of us as the expendable pawns in the game. Steve Clemons at TWN had an interesting post on this titled Comments and Uncertainty about "The Iran Plans" the other day in which he notes that:
    I spent significant time with Mossad officials in Israel and also the equivalent of Iran-watching State Department INR types -- who work in Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. They simply aren't as nervous about Iran as we are -- not because they don't think that Iran won't be a threat down the road but because they know the problem is not imminent and because they seem to have confidence that Ahmadinejad is being deserted by many on the Iranian right who are embarrassed by his brand of populism. The right strategy might be to act as if the Bush administration is getting wound up for a hot war with Iran -- and perhaps a dynamic will be triggered that helps get things on a more rational track. In other words, some irrationality could help. I just think it's important to note that there is a split among insiders, whereas most of these same people were on the same page about Bush's plans before the Iraq invasion.


    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 02:24:19 PM EST
    Iran's military capability:
    Iran's military also includes holdings of 1,613 main battle tanks, 21,600 other armored fighting vehicles, 3,200 artillery weapons, 306 combat aircraft, 60 attack helicopters, 3 submarines, 59 surface combatants, and 10 amphibious ships."
    http://www.milnet.com/Iranian-Military.html How many compat aircrafts do you think the US has? Subs? Tanks etc? their military is not a threat but their intentions are.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 02:39:57 PM EST
    Jlvngstn... This administration in my opinion put this nation at serious risk .... providing Iran with the opportunity to do so as well You got the wrong guy...Jimmy Carter is to blame for the Iran situation now. BTW ...impressive list of Iranian military might, but all that could be gone in about 30 mins.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 02:55:32 PM EST
    BB..is it getting worse or better? More or less dangerous? I think jlv is on the mark. As to oil, we all know Exxon made more profit that any corporation ever in the history of planet earth last year. More than the rest of the top 4 on the Fortune list combined. What happened at Cheney's energy meetings? Is Exxon somehow oblivious to the common practice of sharing the cost of raw material increases with the customer when possible, like when you're making record profits? I'm on board with the Exxon brand boycott. It's a start.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 03:05:27 PM EST
    B.B - "Jimmy Carter is to blame.." There you go blaming the U.S again. Why is the U.S always evil to you evil to you libs? Actually, you might want to go back a little further to when the C.I.A and British intelligence helped engineer a coup to overthrow the democratically elected Mosaddeq in order to help install the Shah in 1953. Like it or not when you meddle too much with another countries right to self-determination, after awhile they're going to start meddling back.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 03:07:55 PM EST
    That shoulda been why is the U.S always evil to you libs? Brain stutter. Thats what I get for being snarky.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 03:08:26 PM EST
    I hear that jondee...those in our history who saw the world as their personal chess board really screwed the pooch, eh? It may be too screwed to fix.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 03:10:12 PM EST
    Jimmy Carter. Gimme a break.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 03:18:07 PM EST
    BB, I see the density in your fecal matter is as rich as the density in your brain matter. Perhaps you missed the comment questioning the size of our combat apparati versus theirs. The amount of tanks, planes etc is a tiny fraction of ours. Again, I do not believe their military poses much threat, their nuclear intentions do.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 03:19:05 PM EST
    ppj - It was their war not ours. FDR promised them the independence they'd been trying to get for 50 years and then Truman went back on it when the French and British raised hell. And like I've said before, if you thought the fate of the world hung in the balance, you should have gone.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 03:24:28 PM EST
    "The Left lost the war." The left was against fighting the war. Are we supposed to forget about democracy and embrace dictatorship every time your M.I.C massas decide its time to go to war again? Apparently.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by roxtar on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 03:27:38 PM EST
    Gloria Allred's appearance at a courthouse is the legal equivalent of Fonzie jumping over the shark. That's when you know it's all over but the posturing.....

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 04:11:02 PM EST
    BB, I thought you were in the USAF. Kdog, et al, The scene in TR with Dennis Hopper and Chris Walken is unforgettable.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by Sailor on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 04:18:48 PM EST
    On another note, Scott Crossfield has died at age 84 ... in a plane crash. For you youngsters; Crossfield was the fastest man alive for many years. Even more notable, he flew the fastest and slowest planes ever invented. He flew the X-15, and a replica of the Wright brothers 1st plane. My favorite quote:
    The brain can process nine billion binary units with instant response, which is beyond any silicon chip. That's what the Wright brothers used to build their airplane. My attitude is that flight is a human endeavor -- so if it isn't manned, the hell with it.
    Hero is an overused word, but it applies in its unsullied state to this man. He spent his life 'slipping the surly bonds of earth', now may he touch the face of god. Rest in peace.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 05:35:34 PM EST
    On the Pardon thread, Libby Sosume laid out a plan for what (I'm assuming he/she meant Democrats) should do regarding Bush & Co. I figured I would reply here, since I have no opinion about Bush's pardons or lackthereof. Libby writes...
    "I think our strategy must be: 1. Regain control of the Congress. 2. Impeach Cheney or force him out...etc.."
    Here's my updated personal strategy, having been let down by both politicians and my fellow Uhmerrikans over the past decade or so... 1. Understand that Corporate Interests trump all else (that's true of ANY social interest, by the by). 2. Abstain from any election where the candidate doesn't share my values. 3. Watch Corporatists win elections, whether labeled Democrat or Republican. Watch those victories happen through fraud, the collective stupidity of my fellow Uhmerrikans, or both. 4. Watch Corporate/Neoliberal forces enrich a worldwide minority of Multinational elitists and Corrupt Government leaders. 5. Openly call out, berate, and embarass Conservatives in any forum they express their disgusting world view in my presence. Americans are striking in their ambition to collect a never-ending string of victories against the powerless. Keep your Passport handy and keep an eye out for signs of the Apocalypse. I predict we're in for much, much more of the same. One day they'll take it too far and Karma will catch up to all these Lemmings, Bird-Flu style. Until then, stay brave, stay aware, and stay with Fox.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by azbballfan on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 06:03:16 PM EST
    TL The Kevin Finnerty thing was too comical. You know often scriptwriters use names of people they know to add a little spice in the live of their friends. I wonder if that's the case here. BTW - It looks like both fathers might be high ranking Wall Street analysts. There's a Philip Seligman who covers health services for S&P and a Kevin Finnerty over at Morningstar.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 06:48:37 PM EST
    Peaches - Your welcome. I am always happy to demonstrate the denial and ignorance of the Left when it comes to Vietnam. What I can figure out is why supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that our enemies see internal strife as bad for us and good for them. Then and now. Perhaps you can explain that to me. Stroke? No. 81mg a day keeps the stroke away... along with reasonable blood pressure, exercise and good attitude...my gene pool says I live to 90 plus and die of a gun shot wound administered by an outraged husband. Oh well, if he can't take care of his home business, why should he complain? My absence is simple.... I have been putting in my garden. 15 cabbage plants set out a week a part so they can be harvested staggered. In addition to fresh, maybe 20 quarts of kraut...30 tomato plants for enough to eat and also make/freeze some great sauce. Four bell peppers, three banana peppers for roasting on the deck on those chilly fall nights and one that will melt your teeth and fry your tongue. A row of potatoes is next week. If I'm lucky I can get 15 bushels for the root cellar.. 60 strawberry plants for strawberry shortcake and 15 or so pints of jam. And enough okra to insure it lasts until the first frost. Fried okra is wonderful stuff. I hope damnyankees never find out about it. I used to do peas, green beans and corn, but they are readily available as "you pick and pay." The apple and peach trees look great and the possum grapes look plentiful this year. If I can keep the birds away I can see some fine wine... I may miss some things tomorrow. I'm on my way to LA for some games of chance. But it won't be long because I'm going non-stop. First Class, of course. Take care and if you ever go out west, let me know and I'll pick us a nice restaurant for you to buy lunch at. You know us seasoned citizens have to watch our spending!

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 08:43:47 PM EST
    Jim, your garden sounds great. I envy you.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by Johnny on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 03:44:51 AM EST
    I hope damnyankees never find out about it.
    So, seriously, how does that fit with the new, kinder gentler TL? Jim, great garden, good principles for living a long and healthy life. Probably watch the potato intake-spikey blood sugar can be difficult for the elderly to deal with... ;)

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by Johnny on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 03:46:09 AM EST
    Oh, fried okra is alright... but try some chislic sometime if you want a good fried appetizer...

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 06:37:30 AM EST
    ppj, Yeah, the garden is the secret for a long life. I've been putting in overtime on my own these days. Up here in the Northland, we're not ready to plant yet. SO I have just been preparing the beds with compost and putting up the fence to keep the deer out. I hope you aren't using chemicals in your garden. You are growing organic, aren't you? Making sure the soil is in good shape year after year. May I suggest you read some of Wendell Berry's stuff. He will put you in the right frame of mind for gardening and you won't have to head west anymore for your games of chance. Maybe, live to see 120 this way. And if you really get into the organic method check out Sir Albert Howard's the Agricultural Testament. btw, did you see that I suggested to Soccerdad that he should grow a garden a while back. I hope he does cause it would be nice if he stuck around as long as you, if only to keep you honest. I have a brother living in Utah. Perhaps, I'll let you know when I'm heading out that way and I'll bring you some of my organic vegetable so you can really we your palate.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 07:03:11 AM EST
    Peaches - I couldnt agree more; theres few things as satisfying to the body and soul as parenting a great garden. Btw, Have you ever looked into biodynamics? Or, do you think its alot of hocus pocus?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 07:30:21 AM EST
    Jondee, I've read some on biodynamics and I incorporate what makes sense to me. I don't think it is anymore hokus-pokus than the beleif that we can continue feeding the population through artificial manures and NPK mentality. WE have neglected our rural areas and rely on industrial agriculture for a food supply that is not sustainable. When the oil runs out, out goes the fire and we will be left with fields and agricultural regions where the top soil has been eroded to an infertile state and without adequate labor to rebuild them. Biodynamics has some interesting ideas. Some I have a hard time with. But their emphasis is in the right place. I send my son to a waldorf school, because I trust that the morality behind this schooling and education is more sustainable than our current public school system, even if, at times, some of the teachings appear to be a lot of hokus-pokus to the scientific-trained mind. Any school of thought that places humans and our economy within nature and part of a larger system, instead of placing nature as just another resource for the human economy has its emphasis in the proper place in terms of sustainability, in my view.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 07:39:23 AM EST
    Kdog....sez BB..is it getting worse or better? More or less dangerous? It's definately more dangerous now. I'm all for a boycott of Exxon. In fact I'd like to boycott the lot of them! Jondee....sez B.B - "Jimmy Carter is to blame.." There you go blaming the U.S again. LOL... What I meant was Carter was instrumental in getting the Iatolla Kromani back out of exile.. thus overthrowing the Shah... and we all know what happened after that. Jlvngstn.... sez Perhaps you missed the comment questioning the size of our combat apparati versus theirs. No I didn't miss it. I was simply saying it doesn't really matter what they got. Che'...sez BB, I thought you were in the USAF. Good catch. Yes, I was I was in the USAF. Once I got my draft notice, I decided I'd rather go there then the Army. It turned out to be a great (maybe life saving) decision. Sailor....sez He spent his life 'slipping the surly bonds of earth', now may he touch the face of god. Rest in peace. Amen! He truly had "the right stuff"!

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 08:09:39 AM EST
    check out this Scott Ritter clip on Iran's nuclear capability Crooks & Liars via FDL More here via Crooks & Liars Also if you want to see a lying SOB in action check out Rummy invoking Henney Penny Crooks & Liars

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 09:26:30 AM EST
    PPJ-
    What I can figure out is why supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that our enemies see internal strife as bad for us and good for them. Then and now. Perhaps you can explain that to me.
    General Odum explains:
    ...The invasion wasn't in our interests, it was in Iran's interest, Al Qaida's interest. Seeing America invade must have made Iranian leaders ecstatic. Iran's hostility to Saddam was hard to exaggerate. Iraq is now open to Al Qaida, which it never was before - it's easier for terrorists to kill Americans there than in the US....
    This may be hard for you to understand as it refutes your most oft repeated meme that criticizing the war helps our enemies. That notion is a** backwards. Apart from the fact that protest/dissent is something quintessentially American, supporting this war is supporting our enemies. The Iraq war and its supporters is showering them with gifts...the best thing that they could have hoped for. Nice to see such a staunch conservative as General Odum advise you and your powerline crowd that you have it backwards. digby

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 09:34:12 AM EST
    What is more dangerous, criticism and transparency of our elected leaders or idiotic foreign policy and war against a nation that posed no threat whilst two other rogue nations built nucular weapons? We said it 3 years ago and it is proving accurate. That is the beauty of this blog. PPJ and many on the right stated emphatically that this war would make us more safe. Allowing N. Korea and Iran the opportunity to get nucular seems to me to be one of the greatest blunders of the past 100 years. I believe Madeline Albright is speaking about Iran in this Sundays NYT, I wonder how far off I am from her thinking?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 09:46:38 AM EST
    jvl, Check out Squeaks link to Ritter. He doesn't think there is much of a threat from Iran.
    The fact that the IAEA safeguard inspections are at play in Iran may in itself come as a surprise to most observers of the ongoing Iranian nuclear saga. Iran is still very much a member, in good standing, of the non-proliferation treaty, and all of its nuclear activities continue to be under the stringent monitoring of the IAEA safeguard inspectors... It takes an extraordinary stretch of the imagination to have Iran fabricating a nuclear weapon right under the nose of IAEA inspectors who today manage an inspection process that is not only technologically advanced, but seasoned after years of sleuthing after nuclear weapons programs in Iraq, North Korea, South Africa and Iran. To liken these professionals, as is the habit of many in the Bush administration today, to "keystone cops" is like comparing the US Marine Corps to the Boy Scouts. The IAEA inspectors are the best in the world at what they do. The fact that they have not found a "smoking gun" to back up what has been to date nothing more than irresponsible speculation concerning the existence of an Iranian nuclear weapons program should ease the fears of those politicians and pundits prone to panic. Unfortunately, this has not been the case, and as a result the world finds itself inching ever closer to a tragically unnecessary war between the United States and Iran.


    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 12:57:58 PM EST
    Here is the Quote of the Day from one of my favorite sites:
    "NEVER BELIEVE ANYTHING UNTIL IT HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY DENIED." --Muckracker Claud Cockburn; cited in John Pilger, "The Real Casualty of War" (antiwar.com, April 20)
    JOHN BROWN'S PD REVIEW

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 01:05:15 PM EST
    Bush is "No Longer Sitting Pretty" (The Nation). He's "in the toilet" (as it were) as wittily depicted on the cover of current issue with this take on his plummeting in the polls:
    Bush's approval ratings in recent polls have dropped into the mid-30s--twenty to thirty points lower than Bill Clinton's ratings during his tawdry Monica scandal. Bush may say he doesn't care about the polls, but other Republicans do, fearing that Bush has become a pair of concrete shoes for Congressional candidates running in November--some of whom are running away from joint appearances with Bush. Accompanying Bush's decline is a drop in Republicans' overall numbers. A recent Washington Post/ABC News poll found that registered voters favor a House Democratic candidate over a Republican by 55 to 40 percent--the biggest Democratic edge since the mid-1980s. Given the gerrymandering of House districts and the GOP's ability to raise a tremendous amount of money and to demagogue Democrats on national security issues, Republicans don't need to panic yet. But any party would rather be swimming with the current than staring at an incoming wave. The only good news for Bush, poll-wise, is that he's ahead of Dick Cheney.


    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by kdog on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 01:19:53 PM EST
    I gotta give props to the Falun Gong lady who heckled Bush and the Chinese president at the WH the other day. I'm no Falun Gong fan, too cultish for me, but I am a fan of freedom and human rights...so you go girl!

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 05:15:04 PM EST
    TL - Thanks - Try raising some tomato plants in containers. The nursey on Santa Fe just south of C470 always had nice ones. Jondee writes:
    Peaches - I couldnt agree more; theres few things as satisfying to the body and soul as parenting a great garden.
    Parenting a garden? Now that is funny. I mean really funny. Peaches - I use lots of mulch, most of it made from material harvested on the palatial retirement compound... But I don't hesitate to nuke the bugs if it looks like they have me vastly outnumbered.. Kinda like we may have to do in the ME. BTW - When I say west I mean southern CA or Vegas... Utah is a beautiful state but they are not known for such things as poker playing... Johnny - Had some a few times. Try some made from chicken livers soaked in vinegar/jalapeno for an interesting variation. Down here okra is sliced, rolled in egg/corn meal batter and deep fried as one of the four or so vegetables, say okra, navy beans (boiled with a chunk of ham), boiled potatoes (skin on) and blanched carrots. Salad is sliced tomatoes and onions, maybe some peppers. Meat is optional for most meals. Fish, fowl and pork favored over beef. Beverage is the Wine of the South, Ice Tea. Squeaky and friends - That's old criticisms. Perhaps you can tell me why we couldn't do both? As for Odum, the fact that he may be a conservative has nothing to do with his miliary expertise in this matter. Fact is, sometimes you must fight. He wanted to contain. That worked well in the Cold War, in which neither side wanted to die. Containment doesn't work well with irrational people who think that the best thing for them is to die killing the enemy. Odum was fighting the last war. You can also ask why they were attacking us BEFORE we invaded Iraq. Say on 9/11, USS Cole. etc. Perhaps this will refresh you memory.
    (OBL - From his interview on 3/97 with CNN's Peter Arnett) So, the driving-away jihad against the US does not stop with its withdrawal from the Arabian peninsula, but rather it must desist from aggressive intervention against Muslims in the whole world.
    I am also reminded that the Demo Left, hard to tell the difference, was screaming about unilateral action in Iraq, despite multi UN appeals, and, at the same time, criticizing mulilateral talks with North Korea and now because we let the ever so nunaced Europeans try to work a deal with Iraq. You can't pet rattle snakes boys and girls.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 05:31:40 PM EST
    ppj-pretty weak. You are egging on the rattlesnakes who are now breeding like crazy. You are responsible for giving al Quiada hope. A rattlesnake will bite when provoked. When calmed it is docile as a tired puppy. Ever hear of the hopi snake dance? As far as 9/11 and the cole are concerned they have nothing to do with iraq except for one thing: Because we have created such ill will in Iraq we can expect much more along the lines of 9/11 and the Cole. You have it backwards as usual.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 05:58:07 PM EST
    The FDA has spoken:
    The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has concluded that "no sound scientific studies" support the medical use of marijuana, contradicting a 1999 review by a panel of highly regarded scientists.
    [snip]
    But scientists studying marijuana said in interviews that the federal government has actively discouraged research into marijuana's benefits.
    link

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#58)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 06:15:20 PM EST
    Squeaky - You have this inability to understand that OBL was speaking in March of '97, and the question was:
    REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, will the end of the United States' presence in Saudi Arabia, their withdrawal, will that end your call for jihad against the United States and against the US ?
    And what did he say? No, only if Moslems get to do what they want without interference. They don't need an excuse, and giving them anything is silly. All they want to do is destroy western civilization. And is becoming vefry clear that our hope that the so-called "moderate" moslems would somehow take control and wipe out the radicals will not happen. It really is that simple.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 06:39:35 PM EST
    ppj- OK, so what does that have to do with Iraq?

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#60)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 07:22:50 PM EST
    You quoted Odum. I pointed out that he wanted to fight a war of containment and then the old "make new terrorists" argument was wheeled out. It is hard to fight a war of containtment when the enemy says:
    but rather it must desist from aggressive intervention against Muslims in the whole world.
    You do understand the concept of "whole" don't you? So Iraq was a battlefield that needed to be taken. Without Iraq we have no close in bases to bomb Iran from. Remember, Bush named Iran as a charter member of the "Axis of Evil."

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#61)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 07:27:13 PM EST
    ppj - Its called a metaphor. You might want to look that up in the dictionary. Check the M section. Another thing thats funny is how you continue to whine about the result of a war that you obviously did your damndedest to stay as far away from as possible. Although that goes a long way toward explaining your obvious identification with a certain simian-in-chief."Birds" of a feather and all that..

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#62)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 07:39:20 PM EST
    Or, chickenhawks of a feather, if you prefer.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#63)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 09:01:17 PM EST
    PPJ- So Iraq, is a stepping stone to Iran. nice. How will we ever repay the Iraqi people for affording us that luxury. The civil war was all planned from the beginning as well. ppj. Is that it? Because chaos, death and destruction, not to mention the environmental disaster from depleted Uranium that will radiate for centuries to come, are all trivial compared to the good we will do for the international community, not to mention the national interest, by conquering and controlling Iran to block against China. Is that the script, huh ppj? Think its gonna work? Are we talking end world scenarios, like in the bible? Is that why ID is so popular: to get us ready for embracing some god? Bad idea, Those guys are nuts.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#64)
    by glanton on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 09:11:14 PM EST
    Thank you, Tampa, for inserting truth into this otherwise struggling Open Thread, as opposed to either the faux sentimentality of Gardening with Neocon 101; or , what's worse, the delusory prognostications, hopes, and dreams of those posters, and Americans everywhere, who continue to believe that the Democratic Party, as it currently stands today, is something worth even one iota of praise or enthusiasm. In slightly other news, the end of tonight's installment of Real Time convinced me that Bill Maher is a hero. He has so much more integrity and decency in him, and so much more BALLS, than any high profile Democratic politician--period! it's unbelieveable. Stay alert, and unless you want to risk a repeat of that terrible day when Janet Jackson's breast popped out for a quarter of a second and the only way anyone could tell was to download it and slow it down which makes it no different from visiting porn anyway, and stay with Fox.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#65)
    by glanton on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 09:54:54 PM EST
    Kinda like we may have to do in the ME.
    Yeah, I meant to get to this above, too. Just remember boys and girls, that if some isolated corporate blight of skin sitting in Washington decides to drop a nuke on someone, it doesn't mean "we had to do it." It only means that blight of skin choseto do it. Kinda like Iraq. But already Jim the Rethug has the rhetorical ball rolling. Behold, Rethugs: Take Jim's "it had to happen" foreign policy, then just add some gay bashing, an "illegitimate" black baby, and a flag-burning speech, and you've got yourself quite a campaign.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#66)
    by Edger on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 10:51:32 PM EST

    From time to time one statement that bin ladin made at one time is taken it out of context to try to support the theory that the only useful response is more of the same actions that are causing the problem in the first place.

    They'd rather the problems continue, to help sell the fictional WOT, justify Bush's existence, and the support of him.

    There are other statements made by bin Ladin, and there are also statements and actions of others that are important to be aware of...



    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#67)
    by Edger on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 11:01:14 PM EST
    Policy Analysis
    "Ancient History": U.S. Conduct in the Middle East Since World War II and the Folly Of Intervention

    After 70 years of broken Western promises regarding Arab independence, it should not be surprising that the West is viewed with suspicion and hostility by the populations (as opposed to some of the political regimes) of the Middle East.(3) The United States, as the heir to British imperialism in the region, has been a frequent object of suspicion. Since the end of World War II, the United States, like the European colonial powers before it, has been unable to resist becoming entangled in the region's political conflicts. Driven by a desire to keep the vast oil reserves in hands friendly to the United States, a wish to keep out potential rivals (such as the Soviet Union), opposition to neutrality in the cold war, and domestic political considerations, the United States has compiled a record of tragedy in the Middle East. The most recent part of that record, which includes U.S. alliances with Iraq to counter Iran and then with Iran and Syria to counter Iraq, illustrates a theme that has been played in Washington for the last 45 years.

    An examination of the details and consequences of that theme provides a startling object lesson in the pitfalls and conceit of an interventionist foreign policy.



    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#68)
    by Johnny on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 01:41:46 AM EST
    Chislic cannot be made from fried livers... must be red meat.

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#69)
    by squeaky on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 11:03:26 AM EST
    Here is a really good description of 'net neutrality' and why you should be writing to congress in support of legislating net neutrality. link via atrios

    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#70)
    by squeaky on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 11:33:50 AM EST
    And the Dems are to blame as well for handing over to big business the 'keys' to the internet.
    Telephone and cable companies own 98% of the high-speed broadband networks the public uses to go online for reading news, shopping, listening to music, posting videos or any of the thousands of other uses developed for the Internet. But that isn't enough. They want to control what you read, see or hear online. The companies say that they will create premium lanes on the Internet for higher fees, and give preferential access to their own services and those who can afford extra charges. The rest of us will be left to use an inferior version of the Internet.
    TPM Cafe
    Re: Open Thread (none / 0) (#71)
    by glanton on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 11:38:35 AM EST
    Good link, Squeak. "Trusting" the Internet, as it were. God, I never thought I'd say this, but things are starting to make Teddy Roosevelt look less and less repugnant. Ugh. Reason #12567 to be thoroughly embarrassed by what this nation has become and is becoming.