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Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 09:39:23 AM EST
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I've got miles to go before I blog today, so here's a round-up and space to discuss. Tomorrow the Senate begins debating dastardly changes to our immigration laws. We are a nation of immigrants and it would be great if every blogger wrote a post today or tomorrow about how their ancesters, grandparents or parents, whatever the case may be, got here. We could get a great meme going on this, especially if readers added their stories in the comments. I intend to write mine tonight -- I'm going to the office to now to try and locate a picture of my great-grandfather.

Ok, first news, then blogs:

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And lastly, this is the final request for year to vote in the Koufax liberal blogging wards. You can vote for TalkLeft here, and for all the other categories here.

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    Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround | 45 comments (45 topical)
    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#1)
    by roxtar on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 10:50:09 AM EST
    I posted this on BlackSkyTheory for St. Patrick's Day, but it's appropriate in light of the pending anti-immigrant legislation. July 30, 1863 My Dear Bridget, I hope these lines will find you and the children in good health as this leaves me in at present thanks be to God. Thus begins a letter from my great-great-great grandfather Patrick Griffith to his wife, Bridget. He had crossed over from Ireland ca. 1860, after having grown up through the potato famine of Black '47. Patt and Bridget and millions of other fearless Irish immigrants, men and women and children, are why we celebrate St. Patrick's Day in this country. They, and others similarly situated, did most of the working and sweating and dying necessary to make and protect this country. H.R. 4437 is an insult to their memory, and to the memory of your immigrant ancestors as well. My Dear Bridget, I hope you have received your Passage Certificate before this. I have paid your fare on a steamer on the 25th day of July. It cost me $137 dollars. I would not have you come on a sailing ship you will be no more than 12 or 15 days on sea. You will have to get some sort of a bed for the voige and that is all you will want. Bridget, if you have not the Passage Certificate before this do not delay one day without writing me until I see after it, if you have received it you need not write until you get another letter that will be in a week or two. I will send you what money as I can, you must manage it as well as you can. You need not buy any expensive clothes, but come as clean as you can, and when you reach me I will be able to dress you in the fashion of this country. Bridget, you must have courage and if this journey was over you, I think with the help of God that the hardships of your life will be at an end. Bridget you must see which is it cheaper to go through Waterford to Liverpool or by Dublin. If it is not much dearer I would sooner have you come through Dublin. Bridget you must be wide awake now and not to let anybody fool you. When you are starting from home you will get Matty and Johney for half fare on the train and by you taking Thomas on your arms when you're getting tickets I expect you will get him for free and you must act the same way when you are paying your fare on the steamer to Liverpool. ("Old Tom" Griffith was my great-great grandfather.) If it is by Dublin you come when you get out of the train you will get a carriage it will take you and whatever you may have to where you will meet the steamer for free. (Illegible) one shilling William Hoher will tell you the rules of that place. Bridget you would want a sweet loaf or something nice on the steamer to Liverpool it is very little will do you. I think that a drop of wine would be very good for you in case that you got sick. When you land in Liverpool inquire for Wm. Riley. He keeps a boarding house. He is an honest man he will see you all right. If you have a bag do not let anybody take it without you know what they charge and don't give them half what they ask. Bridget as soon as you receive this next letter write that moment supposing you were not to start for a fortnight after so as I can have your fare paid from New York to Wheeling. Because when you start from Liverpool you will come as fast as the letters do. I would want to have your letter a week before you land in New York. Bridget, I am about 30 miles from sister Judy. You will write direct to her and she will get it without delay. Bridget it is Johna that will write you the next letter. She will let you know all about the journey from New York to Wheeling and where I will meet you. Bridget this is all I have to say to you. May God send you a speedy voige. If you were here tomorrow how happy I would feel and never more to be separate until death. I remain your loving husband while life do remain. Patt Griffith

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 10:51:19 AM EST
    My fathers parents both emigrated from Romania and met each other after they arrived. I have no idea whether they arrived legally or illegally. I never asked them. I never cared. Neither did anyone else who ever met them. It just plain didn't matter. My grandmother was a Romanian Jew who hid her Jewish background because of her memory and terror of the Romanian Holocaust. We did not know she was Jewish till her death. We found a letter after she died that she had written to her family and hid explaining that she did not want anyone to know she was Jewish, for fear that her children and their families would be persecuted. But they got here, walked a hundred miles into the woods, picked a spot they liked, built a shelter in a riverbank, rode out the winter there, and in the spring walked back that hundred miles to get some horses, led the horses back that same hundred miles, then built the farm where my father was born. They were true pioneers. They didn't come here to support laws that would have blocked or made it more difficult for them to get here or criminalized anyone else for coming here. If my grandmother was alive now I suspect she would be, and probably is now in spirit, marching with the demonstrators in L.A., Chicago and elsewhere, and calling not for censure or impeachment of Bush, but for impalement. She was one who could see and smell a seig heil coming from a hundred miles... and if you gave her any crap she would mercilessly smack you down so fast you'd never see it coming.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#3)
    by roy on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 11:07:18 AM EST
    Some of my ancestors came over on the Bering Straits Land Bridge. Then some of my other ancestors came from Europe on ships in Colonial days and helped conquer those first ancestors I mentioned. The same story applies to almost everyone who's family has been in Oklahoma for at least a generation or two. Family reunions can get stressful. But if we're going to start reading significance into our ancestry, shouldn't we all be African American?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#4)
    by MikeDitto on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 11:10:50 AM EST
    I took some great pictures of the Phelps klan at my church this morning, and FOX News interviewed me for it. Should be on KDVR-31 tonight at 5 and 9. I'll post a link to the pictures once I get them resized and figure out where I want to put them.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 11:16:31 AM EST
    Mike, that's great. I'll write about it over at 5280. Why don't you post the photos at flickr and link to them?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 11:19:59 AM EST
    I never cease to be amazed at the sanctimonious sacks o'goo that seem to fancy themselves descendants of some royal lineage or the like. This Country has always been built with cheap, immigrant labor. The cheaper, the better. Nobody seemed to mind abusin' Chinamen to build the railroads or Slavs to work in Steel mills or Coal Mines with the Irish. Rock of Ages has their Headquarters not ten miles from my door. Barre, VT bills itself as the Granite Capital of the World. First came the Scots. Then came the Italians. The only thing they could agree on was that they both hated the French Canadians. This myth about illegal immigration being new is total nonsense. Just another repo fairy tale.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 11:34:15 AM EST
    Edgar, my paternal grandmother came from Romania as well -- probably between 1900 and 1915. Here's a note on early Romanian immigrants to the U.S.
    The first major wave of Romanian immigration to the United States took place between 1895 and 1920, during which 145,000 Romanians entered the country. They came from various regions, including Wallachia and Moldavia. The majority of these immigrants - particularly those from Transylvania and Banat - were unskilled laborers who left their native regions because of economic depression and forced assimilation, a policy practiced by Hungarian rulers. They were attracted to the economic stability of the United States which promised better wages and improved working conditions.
    The more times change.....

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#8)
    by jondee on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 12:04:02 PM EST
    My ancestors came from star dust and the primordial ooze and Im d*mn proud . Wanna make somethin out of it? Btw, these colors dont run.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 12:13:59 PM EST
    I was outraged this month by elected officials who were given incredibly light sentences (1 yr for a governor, 8 years for a congressman) after being convicted of trading political favors for goodies. And I'm still outraged that the entire executive staff at Enron aren't doing hard labor somewhere. It seems to me that the person who willfully abuses the trust of investors or voters or clients -- the CEO or the Senator, the doctor or the broker -- does a great deal more damage to a much larger number of people than the person who robs a 7-11 at gunpoint. I think the person from the 7-11 should go to prison, too. I just don't see why the person who betrayed the trust of so many shouldn't go to prison for at least as long, and preferably longer. All of which is introductory to this: does anyone know of an organization working to get tougher penalties for "white-collar" crime, particularly the sorts I've outlined above? I've run a number of google searches, and just can't find what I'm looking for. I'd appreciate any help anyone could give me.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#10)
    by BigTex on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 01:21:35 PM EST
    My ancestors are untraceable. Even the Mormon/LDS geneology database doesn't provide any hits on my ancestory. I've been attempting to trace it off and on, sometimes with the help of those who are geneology hobbiest, for about 10 years now. In a different vein, I owe those who talk about a taliban wing of the GOP an apology. You are correct, I was not corrent in my assertion they were insignificant. I tried to push through two different resolutions regarding modifying the sex offender registry to make it more fair yesterday at our county convention. The taliban wing of the party couldn't get past the sex offender. They heard that and shut their minds down. They prattled on about the party of pro family and right to life. So I tested their sincerity and brought forth a resolution saying that there should be no wrongful life cause of action. Made it very clear this was a pro family pro life resolution. The same taliban corner of the convention voted against taht resolution. Realy opened my eyes to how they weren't for morality, but their specific brand of morality.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 01:46:34 PM EST
    Best I can tell my ancestor's ancestors came through Charleston up through NC and into what would become Kentucky. Not an unusual path for Scot-Irish types. There was a Chickasaw woman later on and a Great Grandfather that, legend says, killed a damnyankee carpetbagger who was also the High Sheriff who had the bad judgment to call him a horse thief. And one of my Grandmother's was supposedly Hungarian; although I have since learned that she was a Gypsy, though why she left the group is not known. We Americans are a mongrel lot, but the question now being put in front of us has nothing to do with what we were, and are now, but what our children will be. Diversity ran wild has led to what may become the Balkanization and the splintering of the country.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#12)
    by jen on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 01:47:49 PM EST
    I'm adopted. *deep sigh* I guess I'm going to have to stick with being proud of being descended from stardust and primordial ooze. But I refuse to wear a t-shirt with those unfortunate words when they dye proves them a lie.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 01:51:26 PM EST
    Big Tex writes:
    In a different vein, I owe those who talk about a taliban wing of the GOP an apology
    Tex, it appears that you have caught the dreaded Leftie disease of overstatement. I say that guardedly, assuming that those you were in disagreenent with haven't shot a woman in the back of the head for being accused of adultery, and that most of their female children are being educated.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#14)
    by jondee on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 02:02:46 PM EST
    ..Or died during a church service from a snake bite, or, beat a child to death during a failed excorsism.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 02:26:30 PM EST
    Or watched, attended or contributed to a Justice Sunday-type event or organization.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#16)
    by MikeDitto on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 02:29:42 PM EST
    Excellent idea J. I've been meaning to fiddle with that Flickr thing. Here they are. I'll upload some more I imagine. But those are the best ones I think just because they're kids.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#17)
    by BigTex on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 02:32:40 PM EST
    Tex, it appears that you have caught the dreaded Leftie disease of dverstatement.
    They aren't that bad Poker, but not far from it. They are similar in nature, though as you suggest, not in degree. They don't want morality imposed, they want their particular brand of morality imposed on all. This isn't just a case of where they can say we disagree, but it's a case of where they say you must conform to our wishes. One example is they they voted in support of turning our nonbinding referrendum system into a binding referrendum system. Then they call for repeal of the lottery (which passed by referrendum) because it goes against their version of morality. The vote to repeal the lottery was 28-2 in favor of repealing (me and my gambling partner the two in opposition.) If it isn't their brand of morality it's evil, despite any Biblical argument to the contrary you bring against them. I grant you they are different in degree, but not in nature.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#18)
    by Edger on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 03:22:41 PM EST
    TalkLeft: my paternal grandmother came from Romania as well Interesting. Thanks for sharing that. They grow hardworking adventurous inquisitive and open-minded people there I guess. :-) those from Transylvania and Banat - were unskilled laborers who left their native regions because of economic depression and forced assimilation They came for the same reasons, I think, that people do almost everything else in their lives; to better themselves and their circumstances. 'Find their fortune' so to speak. It's very unfortunate that some people are so insecure that they somewhere along the road of their lives adopt the 'I got mine, screw everyone else' attitude, and want to deny others the same opportunities they had; which I think is maybe the root of the fear of immigration. Peoples geographic backgrounds and ethnic ancestry are interesting and sometimes tell us quite a bit about their attitudes towards life and towards others. One of my biggest interests is how these attitudes and mindsets develop; how 'consensual reality' comes about, if you will. I think it would be really interesting one day to have a thread about how and when people began (or didn't) questioning not just authority, but the fundamental memes that comprise the consensual reality in this society, and how they arrived at the attitudes towards others and worldviews and predjudices they hold.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 03:26:16 PM EST
    Tex, it appears that you have caught the dreaded Leftie disease of overstatement. I say that guardedly, assuming that those you were in disagreenent with haven't shot a woman in the back of the head for being accused of adultery, and that most of their female children are being educated
    Or lied about links to 9/11, al qaida, mushroom clouds or wmd.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 05:41:34 PM EST
    Tex - No, not even in nature. Really. Think about it. charlie - Well we've nailed the connection between Saddam and OBL, and by extension to 9/11. WMD's, next.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 05:52:32 PM EST
    You have, eh? Ya still clingin' to that 3 year-old ABC thing? Christ, Jim, did it ever occur to ya, that if it had any evidentiary value whatsoever, horsebrithume and every shrubshillpsycho would've crawled outta the woodwork a long time ago, not to mention the illegitimate trash in the WH, the pentagon and on Capitol Hill? Get a grip, fella.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#22)
    by BigTex on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 07:24:17 PM EST
    No, not even in nature. Really. Think about it.
    I have, and come to the same conclusion. They are not persuaded by facts, poining out where their reasoning is flawed, or how their moral code is inconsistent. However, I am still persuaded by facts, and if you can address how they are different in nature, not degree, I might change my mind.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 09:02:35 PM EST
    charlie writes:
    You have, eh? Ya still clingin' to that 3 year-old ABC thing?
    Your own words prove that you have no idea of what is being discussed. Tex - I can't prove a negative, and won't try. I would add that the actions of the Taliban are so far apart from whatever these people did, then the natures can not be connected. They hold their positions dearly, but they don't kill people. To claim they are therefore "Taliban" is a huge stretch, and one the Left tries to use in attacking the Right. Fallwell says something stupid and he is immediately the same as OBL.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#24)
    by janinsanfran on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 09:34:15 PM EST
    I've just put up what I know of the story of one of my ancestors. Mostly I wanted to share the accompanying pictures as they show such a contrast between the new arrival and the respectable gent he became.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 11:00:36 PM EST
    My mothers' people were in Shanghai from the middle of the 19th Century to 1946. They came as immigrants to their homeland, as my grandfather was an American citizen, and my grandmother and her sister had to have special bills passed to get them past the Chinese restrictions then in place, along with the questions on the citizenship exam which were much more demanding then they are at the present time. Mom had money sewn inside her coat, as the abolishment of Extraterritoriality meant that Chiang-kai Shek could execute anyone who held gold or American money(except for his guys 'friends' in the Green Dragon tong, so a change in location was advisible for 'reasons of health' :)> Mom, grandmom and my greataunt had some troubles with the differences between British and American English: greataunt once asked for a 'hamburger sandwich' and was asked what she wanted to east, and Mom developed a bit of an East Coast accent so that she sounded 'American'. I once asked her why she said coffee like she was born on Long Island(cawfee), and it was then that I learned that her American accent wasn't her original voice, as it was mine. Professor Avenger was born third or 4th generation Texan out of Tennessee and Virginia and the family name is obviously Germanic in origin, although I think that the first Avenger on these shores changed his name deliberately, although that's based on a hunch. Grandmother Avengers' family came from Arkansas about 3 generations back, and she always said that there was likely some African-American or Native American in the family as well because of how far back the family roots extended, back to a time when European ladies weren't that common in that part of the world. Many origins, but it all blended together in America.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#26)
    by MikeDitto on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 12:30:44 AM EST
    I haven't traced all of the branches of my family, but the Ditto's came from France via England in 1820 or so, and the Sellons (Mom's dad's line) came from England around 1670, with another wave in 1710. Those lines were easiest to trace because they are unusual names. Farther up the tree are names like Sharp and Smart which are much more common, and therefore harder to piece together. An interesting one is my great great grandmother. I have a photo of a bunch of women, and on the back it is labeled with the names. For her, it's labeled "Frances Fager - JEW" (and the JEW is also underlined as if all caps weren't enough to get the point across). So in the immortal words of Monty Python, "I'm a kike, a yid, a heebee, a hook-nose! I'm a red sea pedestrian, mum, and proud of it!" The photo was annotated by my great grandmother Alice, also pictured, who was Frances's daughter-in-law. In her own autobiography she describes herself as a "good Christian woman." My grandmother, Alice's daughter-in-law, had a different description for her. It rhymes with "itch." I tend to agree.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 04:27:33 AM EST
    Posted by JimakaPPJ March 26, 2006 10:02 PM charlie writes: You have, eh? Ya still clingin' to that 3 year-old ABC thing?
    Your own words prove that you have no idea of what is being discussed.
    And your own words prove that you don't know what day it is, Jim. Always a pleasure.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 05:37:18 AM EST
    charlie - Show us the three year old ABC thing you are speaking of that I am "clinging to." It doesn't exist charlie. Repeat after me. It doesn't exist. So, you either don't know what you are talking about. Or else you are just making something up. That is called lying, charlie. Which is it?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 06:09:57 AM EST
    What's that crap you were offering up the other day as proof of a connection between Saddam and Osama, Jim? It's not worth my time or effort to dredge up the nitwit nonsense dreck you try to pass off as evidence. It's your evidence, produce it.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 07:58:01 AM EST
    charlie - So you don't know what you're talking about, do you? Thought so. You know charlie, if someone posts something I like/dislike/find interesting, I save it in my favorites file. Of course you talk so fast that you can't keep up with what's going on. No need to trouble yourself with details, eh? After all, you are here not to discuss, but to attack. That's why you never link to any back up information. So look it up yourself, charlie. It's in the archives. In the meantime, we now know you didn't know what you were talking about. And when you don't, you just make things up. In court that's called perjury charlie.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#31)
    by desertswine on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 08:16:22 AM EST
    TalkLeft: my paternal grandmother came from Romania as well
    And my maternal grandfather was Romanian, too, arriving just before WWI. He never drank... vine.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 08:21:44 AM EST
    See in ya in Court, Jim. I'm more than happy to roll the dice with the likes o'you, sport. You're the only one around here who hangs on your every word, so I knew it was a safe bet you had it. I also knew it was bupkis when it came to evidence. Why should I do the heavy liftin' when all I've gotta do is tweak ya just a bit and you're damned ego will move heaven and earth if I want it to. Of course, that just makes me another dues payin' member of the Rank and File - Puppeteer's Union - Local 509

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 08:28:40 AM EST
    My Dad's side (Scottish) got here in the 1600's. (before the USA was the USA) I have a book about it all and it's very interesting. My Mom's side (Italian) got here in the early 1900's through Ellis Island (legally)... My mom is a first generation born American. For all the anti immigration talk going on... let me restate ....that none of us are against immigration... we all agree that immigrants built this country. But it's no longer the 18th century... with just a couple of million people in the US.... Our borders can't stay open & unguarded with an uncontrolled influx of aliens. We now have upwards of 300 million people here. We also have an enemy that wants us to fall. It's the 21st century....Illegal immigration has to stop! This is a 'no brainer' people.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#34)
    by Achaetes on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 09:01:47 AM EST
    On one side of the family there are German immigrants arriving in Galveston, TX in 1847 with a group of other "Free Thinkers" seeking democracy, equality and opportunity. One of their decendants eventually married a nice Scottish girl from Missouri, and her lines go back to Kentucky, North Carolina and Virginia (all Scottish/Irish). Most lines taken back to at least the early to mid 1700's and no 1st generations found yet. The other side of the family hails from West Virginia where they have farmed and mined coal since the 1600's -still no point of entry found for the main branch, but other arrivals in the 16 & 1700's from Belgium, England, Scottland and France... so far). I really enjoy reading about all our ancestors here... and how it celebrates our American melting pot!

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 09:05:35 AM EST
    charlie - Like I said, you aren't interested in the debate, just in making off the wall attacks with no backup, almost always using made up inaccurate information, and now bragging about playing head games. So how are other things in "Insecure City?"

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 09:50:08 AM EST
    All my great grandparents showed up at Ellis Island unannounced, one set from Lebanon, one from Scotland, one from Ireland, one from Germany...luckily they all got in and I grew up in one of the most prosperous and safe places on Earth....Queens NY USA. I am forever grateful for all their courage. I find it difficult to say no to others wanting that same better life for their kids that I was lucky enough to receive.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 09:54:03 AM EST
    just in making off the wall attacks with no backup, Like this commentor describes?
    Poker Player--Maybe your writing is ambiguous, rambling, incoherent, filled with abusive attacks, and therefore, difficult to follow.
    Link Is this what you're talking about, PPJ? As for collective (sp)intelligece, and based on many of the above comments, I would say this audience would not look good compared to them. Link Oh, and Hillary making sure that Bill clears all his statements with her is the beginning of her inevitable march toward victory in 2008, you heard it here first. Oh, and so you don't feel left out PPJ:
    Karl Rove Boolah Boolah Karl Rove Boolah Boolah
    TTFN

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 10:05:10 AM EST
    People talk about how moral and wonderful the past was, but my mom has traced my family tree on both sides and we were a bunch of bastards - literally. We had an ancestor that fought in the Revolutionary War, but he was not married to our female ancestor. They lived close to each other. My great-great grandfather, "married" three different women and came to Missouri with just the offspring of these "marriages". He became a Baptist minister and "married" my female ancestor telling her that his past wives were dead. My grandmother wondered why when the man died our female ancestor did not get his pension and she was mad at my mother for finding out the reason. We had an ancestor that fought in the Civil War, but of course he was not married to our female ancestor. Our female ancestor was supposedly the family maid. I've seen pictures of the family home - they didn't need a maid. When he died, he told his wife and real daughter to take care of the bastard kids, and they did - my grandmother called the daughter aunt. Neighbors knew that he had fathered my ancestors, because, when my mother went to Nebraska to get information on these people, a neighbor had a box containing this man's baby shoes, Civil War gun and sword, and pictures that she freely gave to my mother.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 10:40:05 AM EST
    Kdog... I find it difficult to say no to others wanting that same better life for their kids that I was lucky enough to receive. Nobody is saying 'no' to immigration...just "illegal" immigration. My question is this.... Why are so many of us willing to so freely disregard our laws on this? ....and why are we so eager turn a blind eye and welcome people into our country that have no regard for this law? What other laws will they choose to ignore once they get here?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#40)
    by Slado on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 11:07:23 AM EST
    Hey TL where's our Saprono's post? I'm dying to talk about Tony waking up. Carmela becoming 2nd in command. Boyfreind coming back to face the homoxesual wise guy. Great shootout. Etc...

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 11:32:04 AM EST
    Dark Avenger - And your point is? BTW - Are you "survelling" again?

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 12:01:36 PM EST
    Slado, just for you, here it is.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 12:25:24 PM EST
    I dunno, PPJ, some people prefer my version of things:
    PPJ-Ironic, that even with DA's inventive and obsolete spelling, his posts are far more coherent and insightful than yours, even with your spell checker software at work. It aint the box, it is the gift that is meaningful.
    Link

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 12:27:25 PM EST
    Why are so many of us willing to so freely disregard our laws on this?
    As for me BB, I see people before I see lawbreakers. And as long as an immigrant isn't directly hurting anybody, committing violent crimes and such, I say leave them alone. Live and let live. Possesion of marijuana was criminalized and nobody stopped using it. Making illegal immigration a felony won't stop anybody either...it justs puts a lot of non-violent people in chains, just like the war on drugs...not cool in my book. I don't want to see my neighbors dragged from their home in chains. They are good people.

    Re: Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround (none / 0) (#45)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 12:37:09 PM EST
    My mom's side all came from Ireland to escape the potato famine aboard de-commissioned slave ships. W/in a generation or two, they were all doctors and lawyers. My dad's mom immigrated from Ireland and his dad from Northern Italy, both through Ellis Island. My dad's dad was the Italian version of a share-cropper, and came with 4 of his brothers. After a year or two the Italian landowner sent all the brothers a letter demanding that they return to Italy, to the farm. All did, except my grandfather. He was illiterate when he landed here. He worked as a driver/mechanic for a rich dude in Kennebunkport, ME, where he met my grandmother, who was the rich dude's maid. Both of their children have master's degrees. My mother's parents thought she married down, I disagree. Outside of my immediate family (parents, my brother's families, my wife and kids) no one in the US shares our surname. When I went to Romania just after their revolution, I was told my surname is Italianized Romanian. I welcome all to come here as long as our laws are respected.

    Sunday Open Thread and Blogaround | 45 comments (45 topical)