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Coming to a Border Near You

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Wed Sep 14, 2005 at 10:38:42 AM EST
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This weekend, another Minuteman-style group is gearing up to “patrol” the California-Mexico border at various points between the Pacific Ocean and the Arizona state line. As they head to the South Bay and drive past Chicano Park on I-5, this group will see the above 50 × 10 foot canvass painted to resemble a movie billboard.

Cazamigrantes is Spanish for migrant hunters. The billboard was designed by local artist Susan Yamagata and painted by Southwestern College’s Border Arts Workshop. It was commissioned by Latino organizations in San Diego.

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    Coming to a Border Near You | 22 comments (22 topical)
    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:48 PM EST
    Interesting to note, Southwestern College is now at the front door of sprawling southeast San Diego county, spreading out with seemingly endless tract home developments. Nice, but a tad surreal. Also, Chicano Park in Barrio Logan is a stone's throw from the Ballpark District, a heavily publicly funded baseball stadium and surrounding high-rise condo development. Amazing what we can spend money on. As for the Menudomen, let them eat tripe. If money can cross borders freely and suck profit from a native population, then a human being must be free to take his labor where he wishes. Especially in a region with as much dysfunctional history and wretched inequality as the US/Mexican border.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:48 PM EST
    so when the illegal gets a job over a NO "evacuee", who is the good leftist supposed to feel sympathy for? those legal immigrants sure are morons.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#3)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:48 PM EST
    Oh no! Maybe this group will "assault" another alien by giving him food, water, money, and a pithy t-shirt.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:48 PM EST
    Charley, You raise a difficult irony. My response is, good for you, very liberal. Difficult ironies abound in life, and aren't the arena of easy answers. But I doubt the centuries old realities of Alta/Baja California are going to be solved by using hurrcane victims as pawns in the debate. If evacuated New Orleans residents want to make less than minimum wage and live in substandard housing, tho, I suppose you could be right.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:48 PM EST
    the difficult irony is that now you have to put your money where your mouth is. after post after post decrying our indifference to impoverished americans, you have a concrete way to help their lot by opposing illegal immigration which drives down the wages for those lowest on the food chain. the big corporations despised here love them for that very reason.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#6)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:50 PM EST
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush issued an executive order Thursday allowing federal contractors rebuilding in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to pay below the prevailing wage.
    Now who was it that was driving down the wages of those lowest on the food chain. Oh yes.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#7)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:50 PM EST
    "allowing federal contractors rebuilding in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to pay below the prevailing wage." It will be interesting to see, with this small experiment in free-market wages, what the wages are and who does the work.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#8)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:50 PM EST
    It's only an "experiment" if we have a control against which to compare. Lacking that, Republicans will say "look how quickly and fairly we rebuilt" and Democrats will say "look how slowly and corruptly we rebuilt".

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#9)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:50 PM EST
    roy, true. I was considering the existing "prevailing wage" and the skilled local craftsmen who received it as the control.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#10)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:50 PM EST
    Oh, roy, and since the rebuilding will continue on long into probably several of our next president's terms, it'll be fun and ludicrous to see who blames whom for what over the years.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:50 PM EST
    dadler - One of the arguments against FEMA is that the feds are supposed to protect the citizens of the US. Now, if the Feds let in illegals who work for less that US citizens, including the NO refugees, are they doing their job? Want it both ways, eh? Doesn't work, though.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:50 PM EST
    Let's take a look at who the "liberals" end up supporting: - those "Americans" who think the Southwestern U.S. belongs to Mexico... - the Mexican government... - the Bush administration... - those illegal aliens that are taking rebuilding jobs that could go to victims of the Hurricane... Perhaps the real liberals should decide which side they want to be on.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#13)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:50 PM EST
    "allowing federal contractors rebuilding in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to pay below the prevailing wage." "If evacuated New Orleans residents want to make less than minimum wage"...dadler Wow. Just to be clear, don't confuse the "prevailing wages" of NO construction workers with minimum wage. The prevailing wages are higher than minimum wages. Significantly higher depending on worker skill levels. Workers MAY be paid less than "prevailing wages," depending on supply/demand of labor. They MAY also be paid more, depending on supply/demand of labor. Hence, an interesting experiment. Regardless, Bush did not say that MINIMUM wage laws may be ignored.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#14)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:50 PM EST
    BMB-you mean jobs like these: Bait-n-switch Katrina volunteers treated like slaves (AP-Nola) robot wisdom

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#15)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:50 PM EST
    This movie...is it a tragedy or a comedy? Hey, if Bush has a cameo then I guess it could be both.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:50 PM EST
    Posted by charley: "who is the good leftist supposed to feel sympathy for? The thousands of (US) American TRUCKERS, displaced by the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Mexican trucks that Bush has opened our borders to. Those trucks can be driven ANYWHERE in the US, and under five percent will be inspected in any way. Feel sympathy for the lost GOOD jobs because of Bush's policies (and NAFTA). By the way, Charley admitted there are good leftists.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#17)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:51 PM EST
    The only people who "drive down" wages are employers who feel it is acceptable to pay people less than necessary to lived adequately. The issue of Mexican illegal immigration is not going to be solved with a Berlin Wall. If you think it is, well, have a nice day. I'll repeat, as long as capital can flow across borders freely and exploit labor to extract more capital in profits, then a worker should havet the right to take his labor across those borders. And if you want to deny that history will always tie that border to our present, again, have a nice day. As for any "prevailing wage" being paid to people to reconstruct N.O, that wasn't my point, my point was illegals are only taking jobs if N.O. evacuees want to work for below poverty wages with no protections. Regarding that below prevailing wage to reconstruct N.O., the assumption that companies (since we KNOW there are contractors licking their chops to profit off this tragedy) will pay any more they they absolutely have to -- whether it is adequate in terms of rebuilding the city socially and economically for those who need it most -- I just don't have any reason or history to believe it. Unless we're talking a real program to get things moving, like was done by Roosevelt during the Depression.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#18)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:51 PM EST
    preview, Preview, PREVIEW DAMMIT!! misspellings, missing words, f'd up tenses, i got it all. and the opinion, too, sayeth the right. i giveth that one away.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#19)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:51 PM EST
    dadler, your last post beat me to it - I think you're responding to me about "prevailing wages" but I can't decipher just what in heck you are trying to say...

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#20)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:51 PM EST
    sarc, my point about jobs being taken by illegals from N.O. evacuees was that, sure, if those from N.O. want to make less than a livable wage, forget prevailing, and have no protections, live in overcrowded, crime-ridden, poverty-ridden, socially forgotten neighborhoods. oh wait, many already do. i will be surprised if the "rebuilding" of new orleans isn't just a money-grab of the highest order. and the biggest grabbers are contractors and corporations already in the pockets of the administration and/or it's socio-economic mindset -- that is, pay as little as you have to to make the most amount of profit. the issue is whether or not there are certain times in history, certain natural disasters, that require a deeper, more generous, socially responsible imperitive related to how much profit and what expense to wages. wages needed more desperately than ever -- to get people back home AND bring the city back to economic life. illegals are a big sideshow in this equation. an issue that overlaps, obviously, but one that can't simply be excised with a snap of the fingers. thinking it can is the same thinking that got us into iraq. focus on paying the local citizen-rebuilders enough so that they can rebuild more than buildings, but their own lives, their own neighborhoods' lives. Enough so they can live and rebuild with the kind of economic dignity a genuinely self-interested and self-critical capitalist society would seem to require for stability and increased prosperity across the neediest population.

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#21)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:51 PM EST
    "I'm glad they're allowing contractors to pay below the prevailing wage b/c the government is paying for it with my tax dollars and they're saving me money...which I need because it's starting to get hard to swim in my gold coins" - Righty McRighterson "How can they allow them to pay below the prevailing wages for these people? The government is contracting out this rebuilding effort and they have a neverending money stack. They should just tax the rich at 90% and the poor at 1% and never give a tax cut to anyone" - Lefty Von Leftenstein

    Re: Coming to a Border Near You (none / 0) (#22)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:52 PM EST
    Dadler, Honestly, your first sentence still leaves me scratching my head. And I'm not being snarky. But I think your fundamental premise is that workers will be paid poorly - however you define that. After being a direct beneficiary, as a laborer, of the rebuilding of LA after the Northridge earthquake, I disagree with your premise. Despite often being the only english speaking laborer of several work crews (indicating how many illegals were employed) I certainly made decent wages, and I was at the bottom of the skill-level in the labor pool. Although I had done some construction work, back in the day, I was pretty green. And yes, the wages paid, were, especially for the skilled workers, significantly higher than teh "prevailing wages" before the quake, and there was much, much more work and more consistent work available. Simply, supply of labor was less than the demand for it. If NO is anything like LA, contractors will be desperate for workers, especially skilled workers, and pay suprisingly good wages. Anyway, "that is, pay as little as you have to to make the most amount of profit." The contract is "cost plus." This means, essentially, that the contractors are reimbursed for their costs and then paid a percentage of those costs for their "profit." Therefore, the contractors make more profit with higher costs, so paying higher wages makes the contractors more money. "certain times in history, certain natural disasters, that require a deeper, more generous, socially responsible imperitive related to how much profit and what expense to wages. wages needed more desperately than ever -- to get people back home AND bring the city back to economic life." Again, if LA after the Northridge earthquake is any indication, there is going to be so much rebuild money floating NO in the years to come that the city may well become a relative boom town - from the top to the bottom of the economic strata. You are aware that there are many who have concluded that money in LA after the quake is what broke our recession? Any evacuee who's thinking, that wants to return to NO, and who owns an a saw or two, ought to be working on getting his contractor license right now, because there are years of good work and good money ahead.

    Coming to a Border Near You | 22 comments (22 topical)