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Friday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Jun 17, 2005 at 08:28:11 AM EST
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Your turn....what's on your mind?

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    Friday Open Thread | 27 comments (27 topical)
    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    Jeb Bush opens an investigation of Micael Schiavo and Terri's initial collapse. The game's not over yet.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    I guess Jeb needs a win in this considering the fact that he believed she was following a balloon when she was blind and a cucumber. Again, who wants to take the bet for a $50 donation to TL that the parents will attempt to profit from her death via a made for tv movie?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    I want no part of that bet J. After all is said and done, I think we will find it was the parents/siblings who will cash in on this whole sad ordeal.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    I just hope the made for TV movie that will undoubtedly be in the works doesn't go up against the Runaway Bride movie. I don't know what I would do if both of these were to appear on the same night.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    Nice one Sherm. Actually, that ties into the war on terror. The terrorists hate us for our TIVO. We are fighting them in Iraq so we can TIVO made for tv movies here at home.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    Nicely done Sherm.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    Jeb Bush=necrophilia

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    Bush Admin wants to lift restrictions on military aid to Indonesia.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    Gotta give another plug to my buddy in LA, who's running his 2005 VW Passat Diesel on pure vegtable oil. He's getting 30 mpg average, and creating infinitely less pollution. Give it a look, anyone can do it.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    That vegetable oil car link was supposed to be.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    whatever, i suck. i cannot get that link to display!! getoffoil.blogspot.com

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    Why can't Jeb Bush leave the Schiavo family alone? They can't grieve in peace, or what? I think it's time to lay this tragedy to rest. The biggest story on my mind is the leak of the Downing Street Memo. There is a very good possiblity that "impeachment" will pepper the news soon.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    I want to make a suggestion to start a chain reaction effort to begin calling BushBag our "UN-POPULAR" Pres. After all, it's true he is UN-Popular! So lets start using the term from NOW on! Let the Librul echo chamber begin here at TL.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    Tax Policy Let us see what we need to do in this country that all have not only the ability, but also the economic resources to do the best that they can. A different tax policy needs to be enacted. The tax cuts in this administration have not only been advantageous to the wealthy, but have shifted the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle class. Since spending goes up or remains the same, the federal deficit rises dramatically. A quick look at what has been done under this administration is in order. Let us take a nurse who works 50 to 60 hours a week and made $80,000 in 2004. She is taxed at the 28% rate, pays 6.2% for social security and 1.45% Medicare. The total tax rate is almost 36%. Now the rate a person who makes an $80,000 profit from selling stock has gone from 28% to 15% and pays no social security or Medicare. This rate goes down in the future. Almost the exact same lower tax rate applies to dividend income. These people should pay at least the same rate the nurse pays. In fact they should pay more!! Taxation is being shifted from passive income, capital gains and dividends, to working Americans. Republicans think this is the fair way to go. Do you? [remainder deleted due to length]

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    Dennis the...writes: "
    Now the rate a person who makes an $80,000 profit from selling stock has gone from 28% to 15% and pays no social security or Medicare."
    A couple of questions. First, how many dollars in taxes were paid on the money used to buy the stock? If he has made $80K he probably has around $2,000,000 invested, so he paid around 36%, or $720,000 to come up with the $1,300,000 he used to buy the stock he has now made $80,000 on. Which he will now have to pay tax on. Secondly, how many dollats did the nurse invest? Zero. Thirdly how much money did the investor put at risk? $2,000,000. How much did the nurse put a risk? Zero. Back to the drawing boards Dennis. You need help.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    Dennis, I'm not trying to shout you down, but some of your points are imprecise.
    She is taxed at the 28% rate, pays 6.2% for social security and 1.45% Medicare....Now the rate a person who makes an $80,000 profit from selling stock has gone from 28% to 15% and pays no social security or Medicare.
    Tax brackets don't work that way. If she's single, only income over $71,950 is taxed at the 28% rate. The rest is at a lower rate. Also, the nurse probably has a few tax deductions. I think there are no tax deductions for long-term capital gains. If there are, please let me know so I can shirk my own tax burden. The expenses the nurse paid to achieve her $80K income are probably deductible. I think tuition, books, and her uniform would all be deductible. If she spent $200K getting her education, she didn't pay tax on all of that $200K. Whereas your rich person had to buy stock to sell it later at a profit, and stock costs aren't usually deductible. If he sold stock for a $80K profit, he likely bought it for $800K and paid $120K or more on that income in previous years. In other words, your rich person pays tax on what he uses to make his living, but your nurse doesn't. At least not to the same extent. Maybe your rich person owned the stock because he started the company, in which case he got lots of deductions. But that's real work, and very risky, so maybe it's outside the scope of your argument. Finally, the fact that your rich person doesn't pay into SS shouldn't matter. He doesn't increase his SS benefits either.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    To make up for my redundancy WRT to PPJ's comment, I'll do this...
    If he has made $80K he probably has around $2,000,000 invested
    That's a 4% return, which is not so hot. With a diverse portfolio (which costs a lot to start up), 10% is feasible.
    Thirdly how much money did the investor put at risk? $2,000,000
    Capital losses can be used to offset capital gains for tax purposes. So if he actually lost the $2M, he'd pay less in taxes on his other investments.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    I'm just curious...why is there an anti-nuclear ad to the left of this column? The tag line: "Don't let George Bush waste billions to bring back nuclear power." I mean, environmentally friendly, removed from oil interests, supported by liberal poster-children like Clinton...? Is this actually becoming a liberal position that most here would agree with? Or is it just some ad that has nothing to do with the site's ideology? I'm genuinely curious, this is not a rhetorical question.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    Bush needs to be questioned on what he did on 9-11 and he needs to be sent to prison for helping bin laden. why is bush helping the laden family with big government contracts and agreements that will cost you 2 billion, do you want to know more? i will say no more i do not want to be beaten to death by the local police for not stopping at some corner.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    TL has done several threads in support of sex offenders and against the requirement that they register, ala Megan's Law. Clearly there are some SO's who are little threat to society - like the 18 year old who got "busted" for having a 17 year old girlfriend, for example. But here's a cheery little story of a 63 year old SO with perhaps HUNDREDS of victims over the course of his lifetime. Link He did not register as Megan's Law requires so he did not show up in any databases. In 1987, thanks to our friends in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, his 1981 conviction was overturned and the 25 year sentance he was serving was vacated, and our SO was freed, whereupon he continued to molest. I wonder, had TL existed in 1987, would they have called for some sort of restitution for the previous 6 years he had spent in prison? OK, that's a cheap shot, hindsight is 20-20. Still...

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:11 PM EST
    Dennis the Progressive: Excellent post and excellent point.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:11 PM EST
    In addition, I've been steadily losing money in my 401K mutual funds since the middle of last year (besides matching). The only investments I've seen any appreciation in have been the less risky investments. But I'm sure that Millionaires still have access to Bonds/Funds that pay high interest at a steady clip - with massive minimums and expense loads that ensure only the mega rich can afford them. That, PPJ, was kind of the whole point of Dennis' middle class scenario - but you purposely ignored it.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:11 PM EST
    TS - Dennis was trying to say the rich have an unfair advantage and pay less in taxes. He didn't get there.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:11 PM EST
    Dennis,
    Almost the exact same lower tax rate applies to dividend income.
    Dividends are taxed twice. Once when the company gets the income, and again when that income is distributed as dividends. I don't know how to figure corporate tax rates, but the 15% maximum only applies to the second taxation.
    The tax cuts ... have shifted the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle class.
    The wealthy have less of the burden than the used to, but they still have more than the middle class. At least I think so, I can't find up-to-date numbers. But you can see 1995 numbers here. Most interesting blurb: "The Top 1% of income earners (comprising about 1 million families) earn about 15% of the total income earned by all wage earners in the United States, yet they pay almost 30% of all individual income taxes." Like I said, that's outdated, but were Bush's cuts so huge as to cut their burden in half?
    These people should pay at least the same rate the nurse pays. In fact they should pay more!
    Are you bothered by low rates on people who earn middle-class incomes without doing real work, or low rates on people who earn upper-class incomes from any source? As the article above shows, the upper class does pay a higher rate than the middle class overall, even if some of their income sources have a mere 15% tax rate. The cuts made our tax system less progressive, but didn't make it non-progressive.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:12 PM EST
    "But I'm sure that Millionaires still have access to Bonds/Funds that pay high interest at a steady clip" TS - don't be a crybaby. You're in Fla for cripe's sake. Go flip some lots in the Coral Gables area. Us non-millionaires have been making 20-40% in a couple months on each lot there for over a year now. Quit wasting your time on TL and go make something happen for you.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    Go flip some lots in the Coral Gables area. Us non-millionaires have been making 20-40% in a couple months on each lot there for over a year now.
    Sorry, I have no interest in artificially driving up the costs of housing for those below or on par with my income level with the help of lying Real Estate appraisers. I have no interest in supporting suburban sprawl, gentrification, discriminatory zoning practices that create artificial housing shortages/surpluses and enriching wealthy land developers while destroying our wetlands, etc. But I'm sure someone like you would put returns over principles any day. My time spent here is time well spent. I take care of the rest between 7 and 7, 6 days a week. Putting in an honest day's work, as Dean said, unlike most Capitol Hill Neocons.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    I realize this thread is dead, but I'd like to correct myself for posterity. I said:
    Capital losses can be used to offset capital gains for tax purposes. So if he actually lost the $2M, he'd pay less in taxes on his other investments.
    But as this reminds me, you can only deduct $3000 in losses per year, not the whole amount like I thought.

    Friday Open Thread | 27 comments (27 topical)