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14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Tue May 24, 2005 at 07:34:36 PM EST
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The number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq is on the rise again - 14 in the past three days, 18 in the last week, 58 in the last month. These are big numbers. Insurgents may now be targeting U.S. troops instead of only Shiite Muslims.

In the northern city of Tal Afar, the insurgents are said to be in control and the police chief says a civil war has erupted. Journalists are not being granted access to the city.

The AP reports the current total military personnel death toll is 1,643 since the March, 2003 invasion of Iraq. The U.S. seized more than 400 more detainees in Baghdad in the past two days. Here's more on the new detainee roundup.

This doesn't sound promising for an exit strategy:

It could take at least five years before Iraqi forces are strong enough to impose law and order on the country, the International Institute of Strategic Studies warned yesterday.

The thinktank's report said that Iraq had become a valuable recruiting ground for al-Qaida, and Iraqi forces were nowhere near close to matching the insurgency.

Democracy Now reports that the press has sanitized the war in Iraq. Has anyone seen any comments from President Bush on the latest violence?

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    14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days | 27 comments (27 topical)
    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#8)
    by John Mann on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:55 PM EST
    Remember this guy? People scoffed when he said: "Let our cities be our swamps, and our buildings our jungles" ~ Tariq Aziz, 11 September 2002, comparing Iraq to Vietnam

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:55 PM EST
    "And let our Holy Shi'ites be the Sout Vietnamese...and let the Sunnis be the Viet-Cong..." Sounds accurate to Blagh right about now... Good find, Mannwell...

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:55 PM EST
    "We've turned a corner..."
    They've turned so many corners already they are crawling up their own asses.

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:56 PM EST
    More f#*king corners than a carnival house-of-mirrors, dude...you got that right... And when you turn three corners (fall of Baghdad, capture of Saddam, free-elections), you find yourself back where you started- in a world of hurt and fading fast... Blaghdaddy is the last person to hope that the U.S. fails in Iraq...but how much worse is this going to get? If the Middle-East history is any indication, much, much more... Blagh's married to an Arab, and he'll tell you right now that Arab culture respects strength (hence the history of strong-men) and attacks perceived weakness with blind fury...that's the culture, like it or not... And when the Arabs have a burr under their saddle, you'll kill'em all before they back down... So it's going to get much worse...Blagh called it here...

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#12)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:56 PM EST
    JR, Fill me in. When did Iraq formally surrender? Oh yeah, I forgot. This "war" was never declared.

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:56 PM EST
    Don't bother JR with details...he's too busy sniffing at American troop deaths (not high enough, and they call liberals traitors) in Iraq...

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#1)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:54:18 PM EST
    It appears that the US is withdrawing its troops from the Al Anbar prvince which is one of the main locations for insurgents.
    Some U.S. military officers in Al Anbar province say that commanders in Baghdad and the Pentagon have denied their repeated requests for more troops. "[Commanders] can't use the word, but we're withdrawing," said one U.S. military official in Al Anbar province, who asked not to be identified because it is the Pentagon that usually speaks publicly about troop levels. "Slowly, that's what we're doing."
    also
    Yet U.S. troops and military officials in the embattled province said in recent interviews that they have neither enough combat power nor enough Iraqi military support to mount an effective counterinsurgency against an increasingly sophisticated enemy.
    So whats the strategy? Hunker down in a few of their bases and let the Iraqis fight it our among themselves? FUBAR

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#2)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:54:18 PM EST
    We're still in Germany and Japan, over 60 years later. I guess WWII was a failure. And as to 58 dead in a month being high - sheesh TL, go do some basic research on casualty rates in past wars the US has fought. By your reckoning, the Civil War was an unwinnable quagmire after First Bull Run.

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#3)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:54:18 PM EST
    James Robertson...how many casualties from hostile action have we taken in Germany and Japan since WWII?
    And as to 58 dead in a month being high - sheesh TL, go do some basic research on casualty rates in past wars the US has fought. By your reckoning, the Civil War was an unwinnable quagmire after First Bull Run.
    Yeah and if we leave Iraq now the Confederacy may rise again. What planet are you from anyway?

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#4)
    by Johnny on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:54:18 PM EST
    I just KNEW some wrong-winger would come in here and say "it's not as bad as..." Come come my good man, walk over to the grieving widow/wife/son/daughter and say "at least your loved one didn't die around as many corpses as your grandfather" I am sure s/he would look up to that picture of Shrub, and with tears streaming down his/her face, offer up their apologies for ever feeling remorse at the loss of their loved one. The point of this post, in case you missed it 9and judging by your response, you were in the next county), is that it is escalating. Again. Despite all the wrong wing BS about democracy getting a foothold, blah blah blah... By the way, I LOVE the line "impose peace". When this stupid war started, I remember remarking to a friend, "liberate them if we have to kill every one of them".

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#5)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:54:19 PM EST
    World War II is to Iraq as... Atlantis is to the Cosmic Grappler.

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#6)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:54:19 PM EST
    James, Important point about WWII. They attacked us first. There are many substantive differences between our occupations too. Here are two good articles: We Aren't Close to Doing for Iraq What We Did in Japan and So You Want to Build a Democracy.

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:54:19 PM EST
    Funny the U.S. military had "no time" to count captured, wounded and killed insurgents and civilians a couple of years ago... Now, when things couldn't be any more hectic and disastrous for the military effort in Iraq, the U.S. military is able to tell the world how many hundreds of insurgents they've killed and captured, how many bloody noses they've dished out, how many children they've spanked for giving U.S. soldiers the finger...such detail all of a sudden... With 2 soldiers a day dying in Iraq now, Blaghdaddy wonders who they're catching and killing and why it's getting worse as they say "We've turned a corner..." Is the corner on a street in Sarejevo?

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#14)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:18 PM EST
    Ernesto: "James Robertson...how many casualties from hostile action have we taken in Germany and Japan since WWII?" The better question is, how many did we take in order to subdue them? The war in Iraq is not over, because we aren't fighting a government. It's actually got a lot more in common with the Guerilla war we fought in the Phillipines between 1901 - 1904 (which we won). As to "they attacked us first" The die was cast for a future conflict with Iraq after the resolution of the 1991 war. When we decided to go with a grand coalition, we tied our hands, and ensured that we would leave a wounded hostile in power. That's never a good idea. Iraq had violated the terms of the 1991 cease fire repeatedly, including during Clinton's presidency (there were numerous small flareups during the 90s). To avoid this war, we would have had to use a like minded coalition in 1991, or not fought then at all. Once we left things the way they were post Gulf War I, a new war was inevitable.

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#15)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:18 PM EST
    JR, We won the Phillipines? Tell that to all the scuba divers taken hostage (constantly)

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#16)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:18 PM EST
    Once we left things the way they were post Gulf War I, a new war was inevitable
    No it was not. He had no WMDs and his army & airforce was in disrepair. Do you guys just make this stuff up to make yourselves feel better?

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#17)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:18 PM EST
    It's actually got a lot more in common with the Guerilla war we fought in the Phillipines between 1901 - 1904 (which we won).
    Ooooh yeah....and how many have we won since? Actually, I think this one has much more in common with Ronnie Reagan's attempt at intervention in Lebanon.

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:18 PM EST
    No, Reagan was much smarter than the neocons, he'd NEVER have stepped onto a landmine such as the Iraq invasion...simply because Reagan was anti-communist but pro-every-other-bastard to ever oppress their people, and Reagan wouldn't have given two hoots what Saddam was doing as long as it wasn't Pink-Tinged...

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#19)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:18 PM EST
    Yeah I hit the return button before I added the caveat that Reagan declared victory and hauled ass outta there right quick. Oh..after smacking down the little spice island of Grenada to restore our manhood, that is.

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#20)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:20 PM EST
    "No it was not. He had no WMDs and his army & airforce was in disrepair. Do you guys just make this stuff up to make yourselves feel better?" So you would have been in favor of leaving the military constantly on air patrol and tripwire duty in Saudi Arabia then? I seem to recall the entire left advocating for a withdrawal from that duty and an end to the sanctions regime. War was inevitable because Hussein was going to play our failure to take him out as victory. As soon as we withdrew, and the sanctions ended, his military would have again grown strong enough to threaten Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:20 PM EST
    Blagh's fifth-grade ball-hockey team would threaten Kuwait and Saudi Arabia... And it's always amusing to hear "compassionate culture of life" conservatives state that war, death and destruction were the only options...not very imaginitive...let's go to war and kill people so Saddam doesn't get to brag....

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#22)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:20 PM EST
    JR - thats a complete straw man and you know it. There are other possibilities, e.g. ending the sanctions but keeping the inspections. However, eliminating the sanctions would have allowed China and Russia to honor their contracts and start rebuilding Iraq's oil infrastructure something Bush was not going to allow. The military was in SA anyway so whats your point?

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#23)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:20 PM EST
    James, It is you that made the comparison between postwar Japan and Germany and our current occupation of Iraq. However, when Ernesto asks a reasonable question about how many casualties American suffered in postwar Japan and Germany, you all of a sudden want to change the subject. The comparison is no longer relevant when examined against hard facts. Since you either don't know or won't say, let me answer Ernesto's question, at least as it relates to postwar Japan. According to Mark Selden (see link above) "In six years of occupation (1945-51), not a single member of the occupying forces was killed and issues of security were quickly turned over to Japanese police, allowing the occupation authorities to concentrate on political and social reform, economic restructuring, reconstruction, and development." (emphasis mine).

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#24)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:20 PM EST
    According to my friend James, war with Iraq was "inevitable". I wish Republicans would tell us what other wars they feel are inevitable. This would save their leaders from having to lie to us in order to establish a pretext for invasion. By the way, if the war with Iraq was "inevitable" in 2003, then it was also inevitable in 2000. Somehow I don't seem to recall George Bush advocating an invasion of Iraq during the 2000 campaign. I believe that invading a country that has resulted (so far) in 1643 deaths would have been something that voters might be interested in knowing.

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#25)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:21 PM EST
    soccerdad: "JR - thats a complete straw man and you know it. There are other possibilities, e.g. ending the sanctions but keeping the inspections." Sure. Please explain how the inspections regime would have worked without a large, credible threat of force. In your explantion, make sure you address the fact that inspectors were thrown out in 1998, and only allowed back in after US forces built up in large numbers. While you're at it, explain your support for a large, ongoing deployment in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia to pressure continued inspections. John Horse: "According to Mark Selden (see link above) "In six years of occupation (1945-51), not a single member of the occupying forces was killed and issues of security were quickly turned over to Japanese police, allowing the occupation authorities to concentrate on political and social reform, economic restructuring, reconstruction, and development." Well, that's what happens after you flatten an opponent - they submit. I rather suspect that we would have less violence in Iraq today had we flattened it in the same way that Germany and Japan were in 1945. In 1945, both those nations - like the south in 1865 - knew that they had been defeated. We went into Iraq with a lighter tread. As to Bush not stating that war with Iraq was inevitable in 2000 - he likely didn't think it was. For that matter, the elites across Europe didn't think WWI was inevitable either. The basic problem is radical Islam, and it's ideology that allows for - and celebrates - killing of non-Muslims. That's fairly unique to Islam. Sure, there are whack job Christians (abortion clinic bombers) and whack job Jews (the guy who assassinated Rabin) - but there aren't Christian ministers or Jewish rabbis exhorting the faithful to kill. Nor is the Dalai Lama, nor are Hindu holy men. Islamic preachers on the other hand - their calls for death are now so common that they aren't news. What the war in Iraq is about is this - it's an attempt to reset the table in the middle east. IMHO, it's the Islamic world's last, best chance to become reasonable. Right now, the West is being extremely forbearing (asleep, even - witness the Italian attempts to prosecute Fallaci for blasphemy - curious that TL hasn't noticed that). If there's a large scale attack on the West using either WMD, or something on the scale of WMD, I suspect that things will take a very ugly turn - for the Islamic world. After we have used leveling violence - Fallujah last year - violence in that specific area has been reduced. When your enemy isn't clear on who lost, they still have hope. And not to put too fine a point on it, but the carping from the left helps them in that regard. Which is not to say that you have no right to complain - clearly, you do. You should recognize the consequences of that speech though.

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#26)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:22 PM EST
    James, I used to think that the only thing that was inevitable was death and taxes, but according to you we can add wars to that list. All I am asking is for you to tell me what the next inevitable war that the Republicans will start is. Or are wars inevitable so long as Republicans remain in power? Its amazing how you Republicans have everything figured out. Too bad you didn't figure out a way to have fewer casualties.

    Re: 14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days (none / 0) (#27)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:22 PM EST
    Sure. Please explain how the inspections regime would have worked without a large, credible threat of force. In your explantion, make sure you address the fact that inspectors were thrown out in 1998, and only allowed back in after US forces built up in large numbers. While you're at it, explain your support for a large, ongoing deployment in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia to pressure continued inspections.
    God did you get a special on straw men and revisionist history today. and Your chronology is wrong.

    14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Past 3 Days | 27 comments (27 topical)