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Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use

By TChris, Section Crime Policy
Posted on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 07:07:49 AM EST
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by TChris

Finally realizing that Taser weapons aren't as safe as their manufacturer claims them to be, the International Association of Chiefs of Police "recommended Sunday that law enforcement agencies closely monitor their use and avoid issuing them to every officer." The organization's decision to study Taser use is reported here.

The strategy also asks agencies to add conditions for use of the weapons to their policies governing the use of force. Those policies generally govern when officers are permitted to use firearms and less-than-lethal options such as batons and pepper spray.

Police agencies may have a financial motive to limit the use of Tasers in light of successful litigation arising out of the weapon's abuse.

Mesa paid $2.2 million to a man who fell out of a tree onto his head last year after he was hit with a Taser stun gun fired by a police officer. The city paid another $200,000 to the hospital where Bruce Bellemore, 43, was treated after the Feb. 11, 2004, incident. Bellemore, a West Valley resident, became a quadriplegic after he was shot twice with a Taser stun gun by Officer Maxwell Van Natter and fell about 10 feet from a citrus tree in front of a house.

TalkLeft's background on the controversy surrounding Taser use is collected here.

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    Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use | 20 comments (20 topical)
    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 09:00:30 AM EST
    I do think, however, that tasers should be issued to cocktail waitresses who work in crowded nightclubs. A former co-worker (law student/cocktail waitress) had her armpit licked as she was shlepping drinks, tray above head, in a packed crowd.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 09:10:03 AM EST
    Here we go folks Ban Tasers, Who cares they'll just swap out Tasers for "Body wraps"! ban Body wraps and they'll just swap to the next "Non Violent", Killer Gadget!

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 09:31:36 AM EST
    I'm afraid we can't put the cat back in the bag. Tasers are here to stay, prepare for endless stories of their misuse.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 09:37:54 AM EST
    Shocking!

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 12:14:15 PM EST
    Ed B - And how would you handle people who do not respond to lawful commands? BIOR, pretty please doesn't always work.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 12:17:52 PM EST
    mfox - At long last, something we agree on. As someone who tended bar once upong a time in a galaxay far, far away, I saw sights that would make the critters in Star Wars I's bar scene cring in fear.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 12:44:31 PM EST
    Just away to do murder and say it was a "No Fault killing"

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 01:06:23 PM EST
    And how would you handle people who do not respond to lawful commands?
    Handcuffs used to work, and still will for unarmed perps. There is no reason to elctro-shock (and sometimes kill) unarmed persons, unless you get a kick out of such things.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#9)
    by Patrick on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 01:31:17 PM EST
    Kdog, I guarantee you could not get handcuffs on me unless I let you, or you had lots of help. Now how would you do it without lots of help and without me letting you?

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 03:48:55 PM EST
    Patrick - You will never convince people who have never had to subdue someone that all you have to do is place a secret two finger trick judo hold on the secret surrender spot just behind the left ear.... "I fought the law and the law won..." Still one of the sillest song lyrics ever written.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#11)
    by Johnny on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 05:28:56 PM EST
    Actually, subduing someone is relatively easy if one knows what one is doing. Three hours of hand-to-hand training followed by years of sitting in a car eating donuts does nothing to create people capable of handling themselves in a physical confrontation. I however am a realist (for real!) and advocate throwing nets on rowdy drunks.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#12)
    by Patrick on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 10:40:36 PM EST
    Years of watching old kung-fu reruns doesn't eaither Johnny boy.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 07:17:26 AM EST
    I'd call for help before administering high voltage.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 08:26:46 AM EST
    kdog - Just how many police do you think society should pay for to make one person do what they should do? 10? 20? How about 100? There is a cost associated with police work, sooner or later we run right up against that. For every extra person having to waste time on something like this, you have one less person on patrol, visibile and available. Johnny - How many people have you ever restrained? And I mean real situations. Not games, not traiing. But the real thing, when the other person is absolutely determined to put you down and to get away. If I remember correctly, you've brought up the judo stuff before. Let me tell you, in a street fight, it doesn't work.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#15)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 08:44:26 AM EST
    Kdog, I would too, if I had the time, sometimes you don't have that luxory. Of course I wouldn't abuse a taser either and unfortunately some cops will, which will give people like you all the ammunition you want to try to hamstring people like me. Johnny, A net? I should have read all of your post....my partners are still laughing. How old are you anyway? 8 or 9? Clearly you've been watching too many cartoons. But thanks for the laugh.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 08:53:32 AM EST
    So Jim, you are pro-taser because it is cost effective? We have lots of rights that make police work more difficult or cumbersome, should we do away with them all so we can save money? Great logic. Patrick, the potential for abuse outweighs the benefits to me, I know you feel otherwise.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 04:30:45 PM EST
    kdog - That's not the point, and you know it. We have lots of rights. How about a little responsibility to our fellow citizens? If the police say you are under arrest, just comply. You will anyway, sooner or later, and you will have the opportunity to prove your case. And I promise you. The chances of your being hurt will be a lot less. The most obvious and obnoxious case was Rodney King. Did you ever think about how much he cost LA? All he had to do was stay down. His passenger did, and wasn't hurt. But Rodney wouldn't, and the rest is history. Tell me, do you defend his right to NOT obey a lawful command? You know, some police are as*holes. No doubt. But my belief is that there are more as*hole perps than cops. I'll just take those odds.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 07:46:24 AM EST
    kdog - So your buddy had his civil rights violated. That was bad. Question is, after the stitches and series of plastic surgery work, did he finally figure out it would have been better to leave and then file a complaint? I hope so. And who paid for the medical costs? Insurance? That's society. PD? That's society. BTW - Who called the police? Some neighbor who thought their rights to peace and quiet in their home were being violated? As for King, he didn't get hit until he decided to get up. How about the policeman's right to defend himself against a very large man who appears to be getting ready to fight? Are you into channeling? Is the police? The king situation was a travesty of justice. Lives were ruined. Maybe if they had a taser they could have just taken him down, cuffed him and it would have been over. Tell us kdog, how would you have restrained King? Just let him get up and walk away? And btw - remember they had been chasing him at high speed for miles and miles.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 08:32:41 AM EST
    A complaint? Yeah...those work. No, I'm sure he would stick up for himself and demand repect for his freedom if the situation arose again. Most people cower in fear and let the police trample their rights, I suppose that's what you prefer. And if someone does defend their rights, now they have the added pleasure of high voltage instead of the standard beating. How would I have restrained King? Well, there were several cops present, one or two shots with the club would get him to the ground, followed by holding him down until the cuffs were on. Nothing close to the hellacious beating he got. But then again, I would never enter such a proffesion.

    Re: Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use (none / 0) (#21)
    by Patrick on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 09:46:10 AM EST
    PPJ, IIRC King was tasered and fought through it or it wasn't property deployed. If he fought through it, that's pretty amazing. Kdog, Complaints work, I take them, I investigate them. The reason many people think they don't work is because peace officers have the same protections as everyone else. There has to be a finding that there is proof the complaint is founded. If the complaint is serious enough, and the discipline imposed more than a letter or reprimand, then the finding may have to withstand court review. Many times, without corroborating evidence, complaints and even criminal cases can't be prosecuted. Also, if the police use unlawful force, it is lawful for the person to resist. At least that's the law in California. See 148 of the California Penal Code. The key is you'll have to prove the police used unlawful force, not vice versa. As for taser abuse, most taser companies that I know of install memory in the taser that makes a record of every time the tazer is used. That record would be recoverable in a civil or criminal trial of a peace officer charged or accused of misuse. As to your other points, most people I contact don't cower in fear. Some get nervous to one degree or another, but so far I don't think I've seen too many people cowering. Of course, I don't knowlingly violate their rights either, nor do I see it done. I certainly don't trample them either. I have however been shot at, 3 times, been choked to the ground once, jumped on and kicked while I was on the ground twice, and would have liked the opportunity to have more force options available to me. I began work at a time when there were relatively few force options. You could tell someone to do something, you could fight with them, or hit them with a stick. There was chemical mace, which was basically worthless and a firearm. That was all we had. With the advent of less lethal technologies, there are more options and hopefully those options will result in less use of lethal force. That's the point afterall right? I think we all agree to that.

    Report Recommends Limits on Taser Use | 20 comments (20 topical)