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Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to Interspecies Marriage

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 11:10:39 PM EST
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This should be an April Fool's joke, but it's not. Colorado state Representative Jim Welker of Loveland, Colorado (same neck of the woods as U.S. Congresswoman Marilyn Musgrave, chief proponent of the Federal Marriage Amendment that would ban gay marriage) warned his fellow legislators, with a straight face, that if we allow gay marriage today, we'll be inviting marriages between humans and animals tomorrow.

"Where do you draw the line?" Rep. Jim Welker asked. "A year ago in India, a woman married her dog."..."A guy in Boulder tried to marry his horse a couple years ago," Welker said.

These weren't even back-room comments....he made them at a press conference supporting a state constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

And people think Ward Churchill is dangerous?

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    Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to Interspecies Marriage | 44 comments (44 topical)
    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 10:26:49 PM EST
    It is true that anyone demented enough to advocate one abomination has the potential to promote the other.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 11:39:37 PM EST
    Musgrave is fixated on gay marriage. She has made Northern Colorado the laughing stock of the US. The area she represents has serious problems: a high rate of illegitimate pregnancies (caused, no doubt, by gay marriage),the highest rate of suicide in Colorado, the highest automobile accident rate in Colorado, poor health care services, poor education, low wages, and the loss of high-tech industries. But she is worried about gays getting married, and by gum, her supporters would rather worry about that than the decay of the area around them.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 12:24:09 AM EST
    Opposite thinking there Bendito.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 12:45:01 AM EST
    We've seen these kinds of scare tactics from the people on the right before. One very relevant example helped defeat the "Equal Rights Amendment" from way back in the mid-70s. The opponents challenged that if the ERA were to pass, then it'd open the door for such things as "legalization of homosexual marriages", among other things. The liberals, naturally, cried foul: Absurd!!! Obviously no one would ever support such a thing, even if the ERA does pass! Unfortunately, this right-wing scare tactic ruled the day, in spite of the abjectly fatuous nature of the claim. "Homosexual marriages" indeed. PFFFFFTTTT! Give us a break, Republicans...it's getting old. Really, really old.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 02:06:02 AM EST
    I don't have a problem with a guy marrying his horse. Provided, of course, that the horse is female.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#6)
    by cp on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 03:54:38 AM EST
    well, only if the horse were of legal age tristero. also, it would have to be able to sign the marriage license, difficult to do under the best of circumstances with hooves. add to that, the natural nervousness one encounters upon committment to marriage, and you have a prescription for writing disaster. i've been trying for years to get my cats to sign contracts regarding their use of the litter box, and other aspects of use of the house. no go so far. if i recall correctly, many legislators were concerned that the ERA would require common public rest-rooms as well. no doubt, that would have been the beginning of the end of western civilization. i believe this was true of civil rights legislation also. one must remember, any idiot can run for public office, and usually does.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 05:21:50 AM EST
    I think you might change your minds if you met my Horsie his name is Wellhung. Don't get all out of shape it's a joke :)

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 06:07:51 AM EST
    Yeah, uh, at first I thought all this "Man Marries Barnyard Animal!" stuff was just a cynical ploy, but these people seem to actually believe it's a possibility. Now I'm beginning to suspect the problem is that the whole concept of consent is so foreign to them, they can't grasp the notion that in civilized societies marriage requires actual consent of both parties. That is, if you are cool with the idea of forcing yourself on other people, then I suppose the idea of forcing yourself on a horse seems perfectly, um, natural. No wonder they fear it could happen. Me, I don't recall ever wanting to marry a horse, but if I ever did want to, I would certainly require its informed consent. As soon as somebody figures out how to accomplish that little feat, then maybe we could talk about all this as a real possibility. But then of course you have the whole problem of the pre-nup.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#9)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 06:23:58 AM EST
    “And people think Ward Churchill is dangerous?” Dangerous to the left? Anyway, I welcome these kinds of outrageous nonsensical comments. For right or wrong it discredits all those on the gay marriage opposition simply through association. Good stuff. Folks on the fence will see these histrionics and get freaked out. Rally the entrenched radical minority and alienate the swing vote, sound familiar?

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 06:25:56 AM EST
    minor apology in advance Opposed to nterspecies marrying why doesn't he want Mariyn Musgrave and Tom Tancredo to be happy

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 06:32:50 AM EST
    Scalia made the same argument in Lawrence v. Texas.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#12)
    by Rich on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 06:40:56 AM EST
    Homosexuality is illegal in India. If the Indian example is real, it isn't a good example of "the slippery slope". Churchill is a state university employee protected by tenure. You could argue that Welker is equally outside the pale and on the public take, although as a Rep, the public makes "tenure" decisions.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#13)
    by theologicus on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 06:46:41 AM EST
    Let Congresswoman Musgrave be the first! If she hooked up with Scalia, would it be interspecies marriage?

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 06:55:54 AM EST
    and the lion will lie down with the lamb... but the lamb won't get any sleep.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 07:18:55 AM EST
    Maybe we progressives can learn from these right wing nuts. What they have done is cast every argument into the extreme thereby creating huge fear in their audience. Then they basically say the only ones who can protect us are the conservatives. So, they create a bogeyman and then say they will save us. Should we start saying that Bush wants to militarize the country and create a military/theocractic state? Then the only ones who can stop it will be progressives. The Command T.O.C.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 07:20:02 AM EST
    Or, as we used to say "Colorado, where the men are men and the sheep are nervous."

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 07:50:43 AM EST
    I guess in this case you'd call it the "straw _____ (fill in with animal of choice)" fallacy. For a representative of the US government to make such a stupid, ignorant and offensive remark about another country is shameful.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#18)
    by john horse on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 08:19:09 AM EST
    theologicus re:"If she hooked up with Scalia, would it be interspecies marriage?" Maybe you are on to something. Don't some of these politicians act like they are from another planet? I'm thinking Invasion Of The Body Snatchers. Pod people. Human on the outside, but all humanity sucked out of them on the inside.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#19)
    by roy on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 08:43:30 AM EST
    The dog example might be real, but it's not real impressive. It was a ritualistic thing, not sexual.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 08:57:07 AM EST
    In trying to come up with another thoughtful response to this important topic, my mind suddenly filled with lurid images of Daryn Kagan enjoying carnal relations with Rush Limbaugh. Interspecies sex is one thing. But that's truly disgusting. I for one would support one of those special one time only laws (a la Schiavo) banning Limbaugh from having sex with anything, even a doorknob.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 09:30:27 AM EST
    Welcome to my world. I live in PA where Santorum has been preachin' agin' "Man on Dog Sex," since Lawrence v. Texas was being argued in SCOTUS. The sad part is that normal people get used to the absurdity of the statement and do nothing, while nut jobs believe it will happen and organize.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 10:26:25 AM EST
    You haven't answered the basic question: What is wrong with a person being married to an animal? Why not, since it doesn't hurt anyone (or thing). You can have a marriage without sex. So, what's the problem? Seriously. The real question is where do you draw the line. I personally don't think the government should be in the marriage business at all so polygamy, gay marriage, interspecies, whatever. Don't care. My marriage is hard enough without having to worry about others. Why is Ward Connely more dangerous?Because he incites, spreads lies and innuendos to advocate the overthrow of government, and is a teacher - not a representative. The guy in Colorado is just preaching to the choir while Ward is writing the music, conducting, and grading.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#23)
    by theologicus on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 10:56:19 AM EST
    I hope somebody can recommend a man/dog dating service to BocaJeff.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 11:04:21 AM EST
    I saw a picture of the guy in Boulder's horse. Cutest little filly West of the Rockies.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#25)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 11:21:14 AM EST
    “You haven't answered the basic question: What is wrong with a person being married to an animal?” Marriage is in essence a contract. A contract requires parties capable of informed consent and likewise capable of fulfilling the obligations dictated by the contract. No animal could provide fully informed consent or fulfill the obligation of marriage. Show me the horse capable of end of life medical decisions or financial planning, or the man that can make this horse fully aware of this obligation required under marriage.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 11:24:37 AM EST
    "Show me the horse capable of end of life medical decisions or financial planning, or the man that can make this horse fully aware of this obligation required under marriage." Mr. Ed. Of course, of course.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#27)
    by theologicus on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 11:28:46 AM EST
    And let's not fotget the immortal words of Kierkegaard, which take on new meaning in this context. "if you marry, you will regret it, If you do not marry, you will regret it. Whether you marry or do not marry, you will regret it." Dogs and horses, take note!

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 11:33:19 AM EST
    That is a joke right?, sad world, really sad world. Be happy in your new one world bush/fox/laden order.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 12:17:21 PM EST
    now i'm beginning to suspect the problem is that the whole concept of consent is so foreign to them, they can't grasp the notion that in civilized societies marriage requires actual consent of both parties. i know this is not the concept you are talking about, but your comment makes me realize just the opposite. unfortunately, like the closet cases who are homophobic because that's what they secretly want, i wonder if the folks who are afraid of people marrying barnyard animals have any actual experience with that phenom out there in no colo? i can say that, i am a proud alumnus of colo state u, in fort collins, just a few miles north of loveland, number one in large animals and number two in small (great veterinary school there). as tom lehrer said, i majored in animal husbandry til they caught me at it.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    as tom lehrer said, i majored in animal husbandry til they caught me at it. The word "husbandry" has always summoned up for me an image of the American family as a kind of barnyard with the husband as Old MacDonald. Which, I think, is what a lot of these people who invoke fears of Animal Husbandry and Wifery wish for. "I own the wife and kids", the Animal Husbandrist says. Sadly, the attitude of many Americans, and some laws, are in agreement with him.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 02:38:55 PM EST
    I grew up in small town. We only had the one doctor, but once they caught him having sex with his patients they ran him out on a rail. I still miss that vet;-)

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 02:42:31 PM EST
    Rocker - A good'un.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 03:31:12 PM EST
    VC: "The liberals, naturally, cried foul: Absurd!!! Obviously no one would ever support such a thing, even if the ERA does pass!" Ah, the simple pleasures of the ridiculous red herring. The liberals! Those damn hundred million people who spoke with ONE voice against this outrage. I talk to liberals all the time, even back then. And I didn't hear this bit of 'liberal' illiberality. "Posted by Rich: "Homosexuality is illegal in India." That's true...but misleading. The law against homosexuality was put on the books under British rule. It is utterly out of sync with Indian tradition. You can probably marry a rock in India, and no one will mind. It is, shall we say, HIGHLY diverse. Posted by BocaJeff: "You haven't answered the basic question: What is wrong with a person being married to an animal?" That's not a basic question. Do YOU want to marry an animal? When has this ever happened? Is there any reason to bring up such red herrings in the hope of derailling discussion? THOSE are basic questions. "The real question is where do you draw the line." No, the real question is what rights do human beings have. And the Ninth amendment says, every right that isn't specifically proscribed. Including the right of association, and the right of sexual privacy. "I personally don't think the government should be in the marriage business at all so polygamy, gay marriage, interspecies, whatever. Don't care." Then why do you profer these fake questions? Why not just get out of the way, and let people pursue their normal desires that hurt no one? "Why is Ward Connely more dangerous?Because he incites, spreads lies" No, here YOU are spreading a lie. What lies has WC told? Give examples, or it is you who are lying. The fact, demonstrated last week again, is that the rightwing couldn't care less about right and wrong, and couldn't care less about human freedom. They want a specific, medieval concept of human being, and no other, and they are willing to threaten to kill anyone who doesn't agree. Those are the facts in evidence, Mouth. Why don't the mouth of Jeff talk with evidence, instead of lies?

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#34)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 05:14:52 PM EST
    "Cutest little filly West of the Rockies." Ha. But Boulder is east of the Rockies.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#35)
    by cp on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 07:34:22 PM EST
    paul, in india, it's quite possible that rock was a prince in a previous life. let's be realistic. the people that actually give credence to the nonsense spouted by the likes of rep. welker aren't likely to be swayed by actual rational discussion. best thing is to just write them off, have them sterilized, and be done with it. eventually, they'll die off, and won't be replaced, leaving the rest of us to run the country. it's the only way to be sure.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 08:28:11 AM EST
    Even better, cp, would be a well planned reason to present when the inevitable occasion arises and someone argues that if any human can marry any other, aren't you being "speciesist" telling them they can't marry another living (non-human) being? And before you gird up to hurl your vitriol, remember, I'm just the messenger. You have only to answer the question.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 08:59:29 AM EST
    cp - Your cure works only when you are in charge. Otherwise you will be shouting "equal rights." Quaker - Not really. Boulder is in Boulder. The Corpuscle - Dictionaries are free: " archaic : the care of a household 2 : the control or judicious use of resources : CONSERVATION 3 a : the cultivation or production of plants and animals : AGRICULTURE b : the scientific control and management of a branch of farming and especially of domestic animals" tristero - Your position is noted. ;-)

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 09:03:31 AM EST
    "I'm just the messenger." That's the problem -- all of you schizos think you're John the Baptist. "The real question is what rights do human beings have. And the Ninth amendment says, every right that isn't specifically proscribed. Including the right of association, and the right of sexual privacy."

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 10:09:01 AM EST
    Dr. Ace says: ...aren't you being "speciesist" telling them they can't marry another living (non-human) being? ... And before you gird up to hurl your vitriol, remember, I'm just the messenger. You have only to answer the question. As soon as a member of another species demonstrates the ability to render informed consent, I'll revisit the question. Until then, it's just people asking silly questions and a waste of time.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 10:20:29 AM EST
    PPJ says: The Corpuscle - Dictionaries are free... Fortunately, I already own a couple of them. As soon as I feel the need to post something on the subject of the dictionary definition of "husbandry", I'll be sure to make use of them. Or I will rely on you, since you were kind enough to post some definitions. Why, I don't know, but never mind.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 11:31:48 AM EST
    The Corpuscle: Need I remind you that Mr. Ed was perfectly capable of informed consent? Need I remind you that wasting time arguing in a serious fashion with deliberately malicious opponents is, well, a waste of time? There is no one, left right or center with a shred of intelligence who seriously believes the insane reductio ad absurdum that letting anyone marry the person they love will lead to interspecies marriage. Not even Santorum, who rivals the late Theresa Schiavo in suffering from an irreparably damaged cerebral cortex. Therefore, one needs to analyse why the crazy right is advancing this idiocy. And that is the proper rhetorical battlefield where they must be fought. You're just wasting your time if you pretend they are serious and should be answered seriously.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 11:46:55 AM EST
    tristero says: There is no one, left right or center with a shred of intelligence who seriously believes the insane reductio ad absurdum that letting anyone marry the person they love will lead to interspecies marriage. I actually don't think you are right. I think enough people actually do believe this, whether they have a shred of intelligence I can't say, but they do have the vote. I think it's a mistake to think that they don't think this absurdity is possible. I think it's important to set forth in as simple a manner as possible exactly why it is absurd -- if not for the benefit of those who actually believe the absurdity, then at least for the use of those who care to point out the absurdity to those who believe it. However, I'll be glad to shut up about it since it seems to annoy you. The point is simple and I've made it, so there's no need to go on with it.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 04:16:45 PM EST
    The Corpuscle: Please, never "shut up" about something because I'm annoyed. All I was trying to do was make a point about where the real issue is here. My annoyance is of no importance (and I wasn't annoyed, btw). I'll concede that there are a few Australopithecines running about our fair land who actually are alarmed about men marrying their dogs. As PT Barnum once said, No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. But I find it impossible to imagine that anyone can get elected to the Senate and really, really believe such trash. Sure, Santorum's mentation capability is closer to Schiavo's than Hillary Clinton's, but even he knows he's lying and exaggerating about this. So what is he up to? I think one important aspect is to create a rhetorical association between certain kinds of partnering for sexual acts and intense disgust. NOTE: It's not the particular sex acts but the partnering. For in truth there is precious little two men can do in an intimate encounter that hasn't been enjoyed by a man/woman couple or two women. If gay sexuality is increasingly recognized as absolutely normal by more and more Americans (and it is), then it becomes increasingly difficult to get people that upset about providing marriage rights to any two people who love each other. On the hand, if, even in an absurd way, you can make an association between gay acts and disgusting behavior - such as bestiality - then you weaken the rhetorical sense of normalcy that's begun to accumulate around same sex households. Now "gay marrriage = man on dog next" may be an obvious rhetorical fallacy, but the disgusting association remains. And that association is the real point of this tactic. Accordingly, rather than challenging the logic -which simply legitimates the argument as a reasonable one for considered discussion - I suggest mockery of those who advance it or pretend to take it seriously. Savage mockery. Take no prisoners mockery. Liberals seem to have forgotten that some of the most effective cultural commentators - Voltaire, Twain, Will Rogers, Lenny Bruce, Philip Roth, Frank Zappa - had extremely sharp tongues. They did not suffer fools. Those who pretend that man on dog is as a serious subject for discussion as gay rights are the most insufferable of fools. So let 'em have it, my friend. They've rolled over and asked for it, on all four paws.

    Re: Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 05:22:25 PM EST
    tristero: I think your analysis is smart and your strategy is useful, but I also think it is incomplete. I think there are plenty of people who don't require a man/dog association to find the notion of two men "going at it" disgusting. In that group, there are those who actually believe a man/dog thing is possible and so they will never give in on gay marriage. Also in that group, however, there are people who, while disgusted by the man/man thing, are persuadable assuming you can put their minds at ease on the whole "slippery slope" question. That is, they are disgusted by the thought of same sex marriage, but they can also see that if it doesn't really hurt anybody, it's none of their damned business. If only it wasn't for this whole "slippery slope" bidness.... I don't actually care if Santorum or the blog trolls in here or anybody else like that really believes in the slippery slope. They are public figures and should be mocked as you say. The assumption should be that they are in it for precisely the spurious reasons you describe. But there are a lot of people who are not U.S. Senators, and who have never heard of blogs, and I think we have to pay more attention to them. There are a lot of people out there who are basically decent people who find the notion of homosexuality disgusting. And you know what? That's all right. Nobody is required to not find it disgusting. They are required, however, at least in my book, to justify the withholding of legit rights from their fellow citizens. These are the people who need the little handle of, in this case, the "informed consent" argument, or something like it, so they can say to themselves, well, ok, it still turns my stomach, but this man/dog thing is just a stupid ploy, and since I guess I don't have the right to stick my nose into other people's beeswax, I guess maybe it will be okay. All those people have votes. We need everyone we can get. I think you have to tune your tactics to your audience, and I think a lot of people out there in the real world need more than just being witness to the mocking of idiots like Santorum.

    Colorado Legislator: Gay Marriage Will Lead to Interspecies Marriage | 44 comments (44 topical)