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Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bora

By TChris, Section War on Terror
Posted on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 10:49:01 AM EST
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by TChris

John Kerry did his best to persuade the public that President Bush dropped the ball by "outsourcing" the capture of Osama bin Laden, allowing his escape from Tora Bora while the president focused on the invasion of Iraq. The president denied the charge, but new evidence belies the denial.

A commander for Osama bin Laden during Afghanistan's war with the Soviet Union who helped the al-Qaida leader escape American forces at Tora Bora is being held by U.S. authorities, a government document says. The document represents the first definitive statement from the Pentagon that bin Laden, the mastermind of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, was at Tora Bora and evaded his pursuers.

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    Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bora | 20 comments (20 topical)
    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 11:17:22 AM EST
    The reason this issue never stuck during the campaign is that even though Bush screwed up, Kerry would never have gone after him. Or at least, that's how it seemed. Which is why my wife voted Republican for the first time in her life. In a swing state no less.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#2)
    by roy on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 11:17:47 AM EST
    The president denied the charge, but new evidence belies the denial.
    IIRC, Bush said that we didn't know with much confidence whether Bin Laden was at Tora Bora. The new evidence says he was there, not that we knew he was there. Still plenty of room for criticism. Argue that we should have known. Argue that not knowing is further proof that Bush failed to fix intelligence-gathering problems. As for whether Bush lied, it's a "who knew what and when" problem.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 12:11:01 PM EST
    Roy, "As for whether Bush lied, it's a "who knew what and when" problem." Nonsense. The important issue is convergence. There are so many times, so many hundreds of times, Bush has been caught red-handed in precisely this type of structural lie. From Kenny Boy to Bin Laden Determined to Attack US, to the 16 Words, to Mission Accomplished. Over and over and over again. The National Guard. The WMD intelligence from CIA. The same basic kind of lie. Sure, every single one of them has, if you believe that Bush is a man who always act with the integrity of Saint Francis, can be explained away. Some of them barely. The problem is this: Bush is not St. Francis. Really, he's not. There are far too many of these kinds of disputes. Far too many times the explanation in favor of Bush's innocence stretches the limits of credulity. Item: The classified report from the CIA in summer '04 that Bush wildly distorted as being far more positive. When it was leaked, he dismissed objections to his false characterization as unimportant as the report was entitled Intelligence Estimate anyway. Get it? Just an "estimate." So why not accentuate the postive a little more -okay, a LOT more - than the report does? . Bush lied about what was known about UBL at Tora Bora during the '04 campaign. It's by far the simplest explanation. In the context of all the other times he's pulled this kind of he said/she said stunt, the convergence of incidents makes this all but indisputable. Legally indisputable? Who knows? But that's a wholly inappropriate standard when judging the statements a president makes to his boss, the American people. My suspicion is that Kerry, like most important congresscritters, knew about the contents of this doc, but it was classified. He stated the truth, but couldn't refer to the existence of documentary proof. Knowing he couldn't "prove" it, Bush, Cheney and their fellow gangmembers swarmed all over Kerry, pummeling him and saying "Who knows? It's just your opinion! No one knows if he was there." They will do anything for power. Anything.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 12:51:07 PM EST
    "Posted by BocaJeff: "The reason this issue never stuck during the campaign is that" most Americans still cannot think rationally about 911. The Big Lie is still in effect. " even though Bush screwed up, Kerry would never have gone after him." HIlarious. The weakest Democrat in the bunch would have caught Bin Laden on that day. Unlike Bush, John Kerry is a combat officer and no coward. The reason why the US went into Afghanistan was to install Cheney's oil pipelines from Tajikistan. Letting Bin Laden go was just gravy. Posted by roy: "IIRC, Bush said that we didn't know with much confidence whether Bin Laden was at Tora Bora." Again, hilarious. The CIA BUILT the caves at Tora Bora, and they are rife with listening devices. Letting Bin Laden go was a direct act of treason against the security of the United States, darn similar to outing Valerie Plame and hundreds of other spies, or Rice giving the NYT the name of the Al Qaeda mole turned by the British, who was reportedly in cellphone contact with terrorists IN AMERICA planning another attack. Bush's neocon pals screwed the pooch on purpose to make enough chaos for them to attack seven countries. Now it looks like they have lost the argument with Big Oil, but that doesn't mean that the treason didn't take place. 2,000 boots on the ground in Afghanistan to go after the NUMBER ONE terrorist behind 911. That's SO like our $500 billion a year military behemoth which somehow, mysteriously, managed to field TWO fighter jets on 911. Two

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 01:18:41 PM EST
    That's SO like our $500 billion a year military behemoth which somehow, mysteriously, managed to field TWO fighter jets on 911. Two
    I'm from Canada and even we have 2 fighter jets

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 01:25:28 PM EST
    The reason this issue never stuck during the campaign is that even though Bush screwed up, Kerry would never have gone after him. According to whom? Rush Limbaugh? Bush has never been anything but a career screw-up; it takes real gulliblity to suppose that Bush is a tougher customer than . . . well, anyone.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 01:47:20 PM EST
    Canuck, eh: "I'm from Canada and even we have 2 fighter jets" Can we borrow them? There isn't any aircover for the White House, no jets available to do cover for Air Force 1 on 911, no jets available to handle ordinary air emergencies in the busiest air corridor in the galaxy, and all those TENS OF THOUSANDS of fighter pilots are getting tired of playing checkers. We would also like to borrow a few prosecutors, if we might. Oh, and you got any reporters left after Conrad Black raped your newspapers? We seem to be fresh out.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 02:25:22 PM EST
    Well you know family have to help each other, bush is as good as a brother to Bin Laden he is helping him so much...did bush call bin and tell him the troops are coming? oh yes my bush guy of distinguished valor guy that is a prize athlete and ace of aces, oh my bush. and check out who really may have had some dealings with this bin laden rat just before Tora Bora, do the research and stop the bull S##T. oh so little time to do so much to us little people.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#9)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 02:38:18 PM EST
    Paul, Why scramble jets? The pres was in Florida. There was already a state of martial law there!

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 04:15:15 PM EST
    God,you military geniuses would be much more believable if you showed the slightest understanding of commercial and military aviation. In your effort to make Bush look bad you not only ignore facts, you ignore physics as well.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#11)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 05:20:39 PM EST
    Ace - Any logical,well-reasoned thoughts on the PNAC statement I referenced on the other thread? How do you stongly sense the need for something without desiring It?

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 05:37:52 PM EST
    Well, call me stubborn, but I'm still waiting for any evidence that Osama really is "the mastermind of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001". Any evidence at all. P.S. I almost forgot - testimony extracted using torture doesn't count.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 07:08:41 PM EST
    Look you guys, you know that bush would not be happy to see bin laden, just look at the connection look at the deals with BCCI, The N.A.F.T.A., Just look up and open your eyes, bush did not plan 9-11., but i think he let it happen. to: read greg, bin laden is only one of many who planed this madness. the question should be how many others and who are the others? we all know that it was not just bin laden it was not only the insane muslims and some insane christians that would love to see this kind of thing happen, because many think it would start a world war, and make the great god come back and do all people who are not "real muslims" or "real christians", that may sound insane but many nuts thinking just like that in our totally insane world. People God is not coming back because! "I never left"

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#14)
    by Johnny on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 07:16:22 PM EST
    I'll bet it was that dam Clinton what let UBL escaoe from Tora Bora. I mean, 911 falls squarely on his shoudlers anyways. Here is an example of exactly the kind of crap cons blame Clinton for-"We had him, and Clinton fiddled away" Stop apologizing for BushCo.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 10:23:29 PM EST
    "Posted by Doctor Ace: "Maybe we should have sent in outsiders, in western dress, unfamiliar with the terrain and unable to speak the local dialect? I don't think so." Dialect? The only dialect that needed speaking at Tora Bora was out of the end of a BIG gun. He was STUCK inside the cave. What kind of 'conversation' was needed? No, better to torture low-level Taliban captured there, than to DO IN the guy in the videotapes. Hilarious. Read: "Well, call me stubborn, but I'm still waiting for any evidence that Osama really is "the mastermind of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001". Any evidence at all." Moot. The issue is the military taking of the main suspect, "Dead or Alive," as Bush put it. Then he said, after he escaped, "I really don't think about him at all," which, translated means, WE REALLY SCREWED THE POOCH on catching him, so he's not important. The issue being dead or alive capture of this supposed terrorist, the only question is, WHO is responsible for not putting enough troops in to get the guy, when he is trapped in the caves. And the answer: NO ONE IS RESPONSIBLE, because responsibility is for sissies who don't know how to lie their way out of screwups. Bush is an EXPERT. He NEVER takes responsibility for anything. Can't admit to a single mistake. God tells him what to do, and that's that. Ace, your Chapstick™ bill must be enormous.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 11:34:43 PM EST
    I dont know why you guys are so interested in Bin Laden, he is just the poster boy with the money. If I were u I would focus on the Egyptian. Thats where it starts and thats where it will end. You guys dont have a clue about Islamist movements.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#17)
    by Johnny on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 01:15:49 AM EST
    enlighten us BrownPower.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 05:15:57 PM EST
    Brown, look up the word MOOT. "The issue is the military taking of the main suspect, "Dead or Alive," as Bush put it."

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 06:36:10 PM EST
    IMO, Bin Laden is living comfortably in Saudi Arabia, with the full knowledge of Saudi authorities. That is why he looks so healthy, he's getting full medical care. I believe that the nice video that was released just before the Bush election, which made so many American tremble and vote for Bush, was made in a studio in Saudi Arabia and released by the Saudis to benefit Bush, who is their buddy and does their bidding. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if they also engineered 9/11 to benefit Bush.

    Re: Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bor (none / 0) (#20)
    by Johnny on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 09:41:25 AM EST
    Follow the money and see who benefits.

    Document Shows Bin Laden Escaped from Tora Bora | 20 comments (20 topical)