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CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 08:39:35 PM EST
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Due to death threats to students and to Ward Churchill, his talk in Boulder tomorrow has been canceled. The right-wing fringe wins again.

[comments now closed, you can comment at the new thread which reports his speech has been reinstated.]

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    CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk | 57 comments (57 topical)
    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 08:54:18 PM EST
    I can't, in good faith, defend Ward Churchill's views, but it does say something about where our society is at that his right-wing equivalents draw crowds and the worst that happens to them is that they get a pie thrown at them.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 09:01:41 PM EST
    This is so disappointing. I didn't go to CU, but my little sister did. I swear, everytime I think that Colorado might be an okay place to live again (Colorado Springs practically native here), something reactionary happens, and I suddenly am very glad I moved to Illinois.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 09:07:59 PM EST
    I'm not about to defend death threats, but does it surprise you that much that a nut job like Churchill gets them?

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 09:18:34 PM EST
    I don't know why it is controversial to dismiss serious consideration of a hack who poses as an Indian. He can say whateverhe wants he just should not have a platform as a serious scholar.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 09:22:36 PM EST
    He can say whateverhe wants he just should not have a platform as a serious scholar. I agree with this, but I feel the same way about Ann Coulter, and she's a best-selling writer.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 09:47:29 PM EST
    But Coulter's salary isn't paid by taxpayers and her audience isn't a captive one.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 09:57:11 PM EST
    Since when is inciting hate, defaming the dead, maligning the country (not just policies, but its very existence) and spewing hatred considered Academic Freedom? He could well have taken the scholarly approach and made reasoned arguments to express his views on Blowback, I would have loved to heard them. But he didn't. He used his platform to sprread venom and now is cowering being his position. Fire the bum. If he wants to be the Left's Ann Coulter, more power to him- at least he won't be confused as an educator anymore.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 10:00:51 PM EST
    But Coulter's salary isn't paid by taxpayers and her audience isn't a captive one. That's irrelevant to the issue. Churchill is a tenured professor. He has expertise in "ethnic studies". I have no idea whether or not he's a good professor, but that's still entirely separate from him writing assinine essays. If he's a terrible professor, I'd be upset that he can continue to get paid with public funds, but it's important that money spent on public education is not used as a filter to encourage certain opinions.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#9)
    by roy on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 10:03:26 PM EST
    I like these:
    The right-wing fringe wins again.
    and
    ...right-wing equivalents draw crowds and the worst that happens to them is that they get a pie thrown at them.
    Death threats, sadly, aren't rare. Conservatives get them too. Rush Limbaugh used to read his occasionally on his show. Right- and left-leaning presidents all get threats by the thousands. So please, don't pretend the right has a monopoly on irresponsible fringes.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 10:11:48 PM EST
    Right- and left-leaning presidents all get threats by the thousands. They do? Since that's illegal, I'm sure there are statistics for that. I have a strange suspicion that it's not in the "thousands" So please, don't pretend the right has a monopoly on irresponsible fringes. That's not quite the point. The point is that the left fringe is some insane professor from Boulder that no one has ever heard of, while the right fringe has grown to become a very large segment of our national discourse.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 10:18:19 PM EST
    "but it's important that money spent on public education is not used as a filter to encourage certain opinions." I whole heartedly agree- But there is no reasoned academic point to his essays. He tosses out a couple of unsubstantiated points then uses them to back up his villification of anything he disagrees with. If that is the future of academic discourse, than we are in big big trouble. Fire the heritge confused Prof and be done with it- As a right winger who knows my fellow brethren on this side of the aisle, I will say be watchful for someone using this as precedent to go after someone somewhere that actually makes an academic argument, but fight the battle there. Not here.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 10:28:43 PM EST
    Roy, the point is that the most virulent critics of Churchill and his supporters have been those on the far right. On the left, you hear about the First Amendment and academic freedom. The right hasn't even bothered to read his essays or his explanations of them. The left, while not defending his views, defends his right to express them and students' rights to hear them. It's not the left making the death threats here.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#13)
    by roy on Mon Feb 07, 2005 at 11:11:40 PM EST
    Thehim, my "thousands" number was a hunch, so it was bad form for me to throw it out there. But according to the DOJ (see table 2.2) there were over 100 suspects suspects for "threats against the president" (Bush) in one calendar year. Obviously not all death threats. Probably mostly not from loyal Republicans. So I goofed, but it should be clear the left doesn't have a monopoly on recieving death threats.
    The point is that the left fringe is some insane professor from Boulder that no one has ever heard of, while the right fringe has grown to become a very large segment of our national discourse.
    He's the left fringe? There's no Animal and Earth Liberation Fronts? No Communist party? Nobody saying "ban all handguns"? I concede there is a significant right fringe. I'm arguing that there's a comparably large left fringe. I also argue that you shouldn't demonize the right for having a fringe, too.
    It's not the left making the death threats here.
    The article doesn't support that assumption. It may be a true statement, but not interesting. This is one issue. I'll pull two out of a hat: here and here
    Roy, the point is that the most virulent critics of Churchill and his supporters have been those on the far right. On the left, you hear about the First Amendment and academic freedom.
    The its-all-our-fault mentality is a leftist idea. Not every leftist believes it, but it's there. So I'm not surprised or impressed that the left is moderate in its response to Churchill. It's the correct response, but not impressive. The left will defend the defend to say things that don't greatly upset the left. The right will defends the freedom to say things that don't greatly upset the right. I'm burning space on somebody else's drive, so I'll be quiet now.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 12:27:19 AM EST
    I say let him say whatever he wants to say. I'm personally of the belief that CU should never have given him tenure--they knew he was a crackpot the last time the regents investigated him in 1994. How somebody with an MA in communications (as opposed to something more qualifying such as history, sociology, or ethnic studies) can become the chairman of an ethnic studies department for $100k a year is baffling. He doesn't have a Ph.D.. As far as I can tell searching over 300 databases, he has been published exactly once in a scholarly journal (U.S. MERCENARIES IN AFRICA: THE RECRUITMENT NETWORK AND U.S. POLICY. 1980 Africa Today, Vol. 27, No. 2, pp. 21 (ISSN: 0001-9887)), but I can't find any reference in the citation as to whether the article was peer-reviewed or not. His only apparent qualification is that he claimed he was an Indian, which turns out not to be true. It makes me wonder how many other unqualified, fraudulent tenured professors and department chairs are financially benefitting from tax dollars and our ever-rising tuition. This is CU's hornet's nest to deal with. Man am I glad I go to Metro.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 12:42:31 AM EST
    Oh yes, you got to love Freedom? and never say anything that makes someone mad. soon we will be asking what prison churchill, was murdered in? and maybe churchill is one of bush's Budget cuts?

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 01:57:31 AM EST
    Oh come on. Daniel Pipes gets meetings canceled too. It just goes to show that the fringes on both sides have enough power to cause a ruckus.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 04:06:22 AM EST
    this was not even an issue until it was brought up by the talking heads on the right. this statement by Churchill was made several years ago. If you on the right were so outraged by what happened where was your outrage after the statements were made? Do you only get angry when you are told?

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 05:01:44 AM EST
    GregZ - It was brought up by the folks from Hamilton College after the was invited to speak there. Evidently someone there didn't think he was qualified, and didn't want to be a platform. If he has freedom to speak, don't they have the right to complain? thehim - If the fact is that Ann Coulter is not employed by a public institution, and is not paid with public dollars is not important..... Why did you bring her name up? I would guess you couldn't come up with an extreme right wing professor, so you just tossed her name out hoping no one would notice. That's what happens when you listen only to your buddies and have no criticism on a regular basis. Churchill is a tenured professor. Churchill does have, and should have, freedom of speech. That does not mean he can say and do anything he wants to. CU has a published list of dismissable offenses, and they are reviewing them versus his actions. As for the numbers of wingnuts and moonbats, I would say the numbers are about even. A majority of the latter are engaged in some type of public position, for the simple reason you get fired for making outrageous statements in the private business world. Think of it as thinning the herd.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 05:14:24 AM EST
    Freedom of speech is a wonderful theoretical concept. Gets a little uncomfortable when we don't like the speech. But if the concept means anything, people must protect the speech of folks whose speech is abhorrent to them. It's not rocket science.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 05:38:52 AM EST
    CA, how come that logic didn't apply to Larry Summers? TL, I'm here to call attention to the mi;;ioms of conservatives who DIDN'T make threats to the gasbag "professor". Furthermore, how do you know these threats weren't cooked up by people on the left? It does happen. The left is just as guilty as the right when it comes to hanging the sheep with the goats (Christian metaphor). Maybe even more so.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 05:39:38 AM EST
    that's "millions"

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#22)
    by theologicus on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 05:42:19 AM EST
    Although I find words like "fascism" and "theocracy" to be alarmist in our current context, and imprecise, I think we need to see death-threat tactics for what they are: brown-shirts redivivus.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 06:46:51 AM EST
    I agree with Poker Player. Churchill has the right to say whatever he wants. However, he does represent a publicly funded institution. Churchill does does present an interesting opportunity. I read his article. Horrible, disgusting and absurd. However, it probably comes closest to actually replicating the thought process and driving motivations of those who have attacked the U.S. He may be disgusting but we may actually learn something about our enemies from him.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 06:46:57 AM EST
    So far there has still been no report to the local police about "death threats" at the Hamilton campus (Kirkland NY)involving Churchill so it is starting to sound like an excuse rather than a legitmate reason for cancellation. As far as false reports go, there was an incident on the Hamilton campus a few years back about a woman being physically attacked on campus for being a lesbian. There were huge local headlines, marches and rallies to support her and a police report was made. Guess what? She admitted to making the whole thing up to prove there was anti-Gay sentiment in the campus/local community. Some folks are just as capable of making this crap up in the Churchill case as well. Sounds fishy to me.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#25)
    by Discovery on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 07:21:36 AM EST
    Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from accountability. Your words always have accountability to those that pay your bills. A rude waiter or a disgusting store clerk; don’t go back. Insulting musician; don't go to the concert. "Changing the Channel" is commercial accountability; through the wallet. Try to force Berkley to pay for Michelle Malkin or Ann Coulter. No freedom of speech violations there. Santorum and Lott were held accountable ~ the left didn’t defend them with freedom of speech. Churchill is still free to say what he likes; the public doesn't have to pay for his next speech. Tell your boss his dead daughter deserved to die, declare free speech and demand a paycheck for your next speech. Accountability exists. Freedom of speech does not mean free reign. He may be disgusting but we may actually learn something about our enemies from him. Yea, that will stop a terrorist.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 08:20:13 AM EST
    right-wing equivalents? who is churchil's right-wing equivalent. Ann Coulter? Give me a break.... His right-wing equivalent is some klansman, and that guy would have lost his tennored position at CU a long time ago. The only double standard here is that this hate monger gets to keep his job, because he preaches his hate against white business people. This is total crap. He should be fired.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 08:22:48 AM EST
    Interesting that we didn't hear about the "left fringe" that disrupted the earlier meeting at CU? Of course, since they were Churchill supporters perhaps that gives them a pass. -C

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 08:25:21 AM EST
    He deserves to be fired for incompetence. Anyone who says the 9/11 victims deserved it (they were a bunch of people going to work, like you or me) and that we need to have more 9/11's should not be an educator. Comparing Ward Churchill to Ann Coulter is like comparing Michael Moore to the Swift Boat Vets and POW's for truth.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 08:54:38 AM EST
    Posted by Michael Ditto at February 8, 2005 01:27 AM It makes me wonder how many other unqualified, fraudulent tenured professors and department chairs are financially benefitting from tax dollars and our ever-rising tuition. therein lies my interest in all of this. is this something that seriously needs reviewing. GregZ at February 8, 2005 05:06 AM ...Do you only get angry when you are told? we don't do anything until were told, or our strings are tugged!

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 09:25:02 AM EST
    What did Churchill say anyway? Oh yeah, he said we're hypocrites: We reserve the right to call a 'military target' anything we like. If the bad guys could call a 'military target' according to our definition, it's a given that both the WTC and Pentagon would qualify. That's what he said! And damn, he's right! God, how we hate it when people point out our hypocrisy!

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 09:28:38 AM EST
    And, no Churchill never said that the 911 victims deserved to die. He said that our definition of what constitutes a military target would legitimize their deaths. Churchill made it quite clear that he thought that was disgusting. But put whatever words you like in his mouth, it makes you feel righteous -- and that's all that matters...to you.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#32)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 09:31:37 AM EST
    The new budget allows 12 times this guy's yearly salary to upgrade the airstrip at Dick Cheney's favorite hunting spot. Wingers, please spare us the lectures of fiscal responsibility. The faux indignation of money poorly spent. This is just recreational character assassination. And a heaping dose of guilt by association for the left. And they sit and take it. The right has a 24/7/365 "news" channel to funnel their bile, calling their opponents insane, anti-american, communists, wackos. But let one obscure prof makes some outlandish statement and the brown shirts are out in force, invading our institutions of learning, silencing any voice of dissent, and threatening the public at large.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 09:38:03 AM EST
    Che - Well, that's an interesting assertion and, if true, a bad use of public money. You got a link for that? -C PS - You are so off topic. I was going to say "off the reservation" but thought it might be misconstrued.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#34)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 09:48:43 AM EST
    -C, For your perusal. And the last two thirds of my comment were on topic. Don't ignore it. Read it.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 09:49:26 AM EST
    "silencing any voice of dissent, and threatening the public at large..." silencing any voice of dissent? Give me a break. There is absolutely no shortage or "voices of dissent" in this country. Stop chalking up Churchill's comments to some legitimate academic expression issue. Hate speech people. You do not revel in the deaths of Americans (particularly because of their occupation) and keep your job at an American taxpayer- paid institution. We have to draw the line.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#36)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 09:50:14 AM EST
    Sorry. My mistake. It's only 10 times Churchill's yearly salary.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#37)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 09:56:41 AM EST
    Anon, Trying HARD to get him fired is trying to silence him. They did the same thing to M. Moore at Cal State San Marcos in Oct. 2004. So where were you chickenhawks three years ago when Churchill actually made these statements? There is absolutely no shortage or "voices of dissent" in this country. Having control of the major "news" network, talk radio and war-cheerleading print media really can put you at a disadvantage. Poor baby.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 10:00:02 AM EST
    Having control of the major "news" network, talk radio and war-cheerleading print media really can put you at a disadvantage. Poor baby. A) that's ridiculous. From the NY Times,LA Times, Wash Post, Boston Globe, etc., there is not shortage of dissent. I would include every major news network as well. B) none of that has anything to do with the fact this hateful biggot should be fired by the taxpayers.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 11:12:42 AM EST
    Hey, Che-- I'm a card-carrying lefty liberal Democrat. You can't pin criticism of Churchill entirely on the right. And I really despise Nazi metaphors such as your brownshirt reference. They cheapen the memory of the holocaust, and they should only be used to describe the horror of the holocaust. When we diminish the memory of the holocaust by throwing terms like that around willy-nilly, we tacitly endorse those on the extreme right who deny it ever happened. The brownshirts were a gang of paramilitary thugs who went around imposing Hitler's rule with guns, clubs, and bats. Nobody could say that the harsh criticism of Churchill even approaches the horror of Kristallnacht. As far as death threats go, those only come from people who are seriously deranged. Normal people, whatever their political stripe, realize that they'll get sent to jail for threatening a life.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 11:31:01 AM EST
    It's very obvious the people above calling Churchill a "bigot", and putting words in his mouth have never read the essay they are supposedly so upset over. He never said anybody "deserved to die". Make up your own mind AFTER reading the essay, don't let O'Reilly tell you what it says.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 12:10:45 PM EST
    Churchill must suffer the consequences of what he said just like the Dixie Chicks. The Dixie Chicks are accountable to the people who buy their CDs and go to their concerts. Churchill is accountable to the people of Colorado. He is trusted to educate their children and when he says things like the US needs more 9/11 attacks to get the message, he is incompetent. I heard him on a radio interview along with the father of one of the WTC victims. He told the father that his son was a little Eichmann. Churchill can stand on a box on the sidewalk and preach whatever he wants, free speech. He is not being paid by the gov't. He does not have a captive audience. If someone walks up and punches him in the face, they must suffer the consequences of their actions. Excerpts from Churchill's essay: "As to those in the World Trade Center . . . Well, really. Let's get a grip here, shall we? True enough, they were civilians of a sort. But innocent? Gimme a break. They formed a technocratic corps at the very heart of America's global financial empire – the "mighty engine of profit" to which the military dimension of U.S. policy has always been enslaved – and they did so both willingly and knowingly." "If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it." I could have sworn they were people like you and me, going to work, trying to earn a living. I don't know about you, but I went to college to earn a better living for my family and me. Do you think the people in the WTC were trying to do the best they could for themselves and there family, or were they secretly hoping that their profiteering was oppressing someone, somewhere in the world? Thumbs, are you a little Eichmann? I quickly read over the essay and I could be wrong, but I didn't see anywhere in there where he put ANY of the blame of the dead Iraqi children on Saddam's actions. If Churchill knew then what we do now about the oil for food scandal, do you think he still would blame the US for the dead Iraqi children? Oh, wait a minute he just said he stands behind his essay.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 01:15:22 PM EST
    As to those in the World Trade Center . . . Well, really. Let's get a grip here, shall we? True enough, they were civilians of a sort. But innocent? Gimme a break. They formed a technocratic corps at the very heart of America's global financial empire – the "mighty engine of profit" to which the military dimension of U.S. policy has always been enslaved – and they did so both willingly and knowingly." "If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it." All the non-innocent little Eichmanns of Colorado should push this bigot out of their paid employment.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 02:08:57 PM EST
    as I said in my post to the article posted here late last week, Churchill anticipated the future with his "little Eichmanns" comment they administer the CU system last week, they refused to have a public comment period for students and others to speak in Churchill's defense now, they've cancelled Churchill's speech at CU meanwhile, they are "reviewing his speeches and writings", like the Nazi legal system did in an effort to root out degenerate thought, or the Maoists did during the Cultural Revolution to expose "class enemies" yes, as someone posted here earlier today, "a line has to be drawn somewhere", and, based upon recent events, it permits the athletic department at Boulder to shield sexual predators while denying the right of its faculty to speak

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 02:28:29 PM EST
    I wonder if anyone remembers committed Holocaust revisionist Arthur Butz, engineering prof at Northwestern and author of a book, "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century." He was deeply unpopular on campus when I was there in the 80s. His case was often contrasted with that of Barbara Foley, an outspoken Marxist professor who got mixed up in an ugly protest of a speech by contra figure Adolfo Calero in 1986 and was subsequently denied tenure. But since Butz has kept a low profile, unlike the activist Foley, he has been able to promote his views unmolested (see http://pubweb.nwu.edu/~abutz/) for decades. Is academic freedom great or what?

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 02:30:29 PM EST
    "while denying the right of its faculty to speak..." Once again, he's not being denied the right to speak. But his speach will have conssequences if it insults the sensibilities of the vast number of people who pay his salary (the Colorado taxpayers), as it should.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 02:45:39 PM EST
    I just hope when he cleans out his teachers closet, he takes with him all of his anti WTO propaganda, his well scarred motor helmet, his black ski mask, piss bombs and all the other paraphernalia that freaks like him surround their "intellectual" lives with. What a troubled man. And it serves no good to have the media clamoring for interviews with this, this......such and such.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 02:59:19 PM EST
    He is incompetent, and he blames America first. He didn't put any blame on Saddam actions or the oil for food scandal for the "500,000 dead Iraqi children"(I understand the oil for food corruption just came to light, but he could have corrected himself after he knew about it). But he could actually insinuate American civilians deserved to be murdered for going to work in our capitalist economy? The reasoning isn't even logical UNLESS your agenda is to blame America.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 03:14:34 PM EST
    mayhe if "Colorado taxpayers" had a little more maturity about political discourse, "their sensibilities" would be so sensitive that they couldn't tolerate the speech and scholarship of one faculty member at CU that they don't like but as Clint Talbott notes in today's Daily Camera, it seems that the more things change, the more they stay the same back in the early 1950s, CU purged a lot of suspected communists now the Churchill debacle UPDATE: looks like CU administrators relented, and allowed Churchill's speech to go forward at least for today, the thugocracy and their enablers on the CU Board of Regents lost

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 03:17:42 PM EST
    back in the early 1950s, CU purged a lot of suspected communists Ok, so absurd for anybody to defend this a-hole by trying to compare it to some McCarthy style witch hunt. Please.....

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 03:48:26 PM EST
    Hey Ward, See ya, Wouldn't wanna be ya!!!!

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 03:53:13 PM EST
    Well, it's now in the federal court system in Denver: Colorado Prof Challenges Speech Cancellation
    In his filing Tuesday in Denver federal court, Churchill asked a judge to prohibit CU from canceling the speech, calling the last-minute decision to do so "nothing but an effort to stifle me and not let me speak on a matter of public and personal concern." [para] "I was intending to explain my meaning to the audience, in particular the CU student body," Churchill said in an affidavit. His lawsuit alleges the university violated his rights and those of the people who hoped to hear him speak. [para.] A hearing on the matter was scheduled for Tuesday afternoon, three hours before Churchill was to speak. A university spokeswoman did not immediately return calls, but campus police spokesman Lt. Tim McGraw said authorities are prepared to provide security if the judge clears the way for the speech.
    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#53)
    by jimcee on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 04:09:28 PM EST
    Churchill has made his bed and now he must lie in it, not because of his indefensable comments but because of his limited academic creds. Publish or perish is the byword in academia and he has failed to publish anything worth reading, trust me I've tried to find it, it ain't there. The real question, as has been stated here before; how did this joker get his gig in the first place? It certainly isn't because of his scholarship was it? How does someone who majors in communucations become head of the Ethnic studies department at a large university? By lying about his enthnicity? Or by appealing to the radical sentiments of his peers? Grade inflation anyone? More to the point how does someone who writes so poorly even get a degree in "communications". Crikey, even Paula Zahn put a beating on him last Friday! I mean c'mon, we're talking Paula Zahn here not Alan Dershowitcz. He is a intellectual fraud and it appears there is a chill running through others in academe who are the same. Time to close the window on this joker and those such as he.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 04:21:15 PM EST
    So Thumbs, if he isn't a little Eichmann and he stands behind his essay, does that make him a little behind?

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 04:42:50 PM EST
    On Ward Churchill's publications vis-a-vis peer review issues: Those making accusations about whether or not Churchill's essays and books have been peer-reviewed really need to do some more research themselves. How do you know whether or not he is an "intellectual fraud?" Check out his publishers and their particular criteria for publication, for a start. If one explores the web site of South End Press (Boston, MA) for example, starting with their "authors" link to Churchill's works, and looks at the other authors whose works they publish, as connected to the Institution for Cultural and Social Change (organization establishing that press), one can get a better idea of the social and academic contexts of his publications. Their own press mission espouses (openly) a social activist agenda. In America, that is their prerogative as a press. It would be interesting to know who decides what gets published by that press (individuals, one or more exec. editors, an editorial committee affiliated with their Institute, including "peer review" by two or more outside readers?). One needs to know whether or not mss. get sent out to "outside readers" at all, and what kind of fact-checking or verification they do of sources being cited/documented in such manuscripts (if any). If this press is more of an "in-house" operation (and I don't know whether or not it is), how "rigorous" or "vigilant" is their peer review process? Is the audience of this press's works generally those who already agree with their writers' points of view? (preaching to the choir, e.g.?) Z-Magazine (online) is also a project of this group. I have read a number of essays by Noam Chomsky, Harold Pinter (a longtime research interest of mine, and others from sites like Z-Magazine and occasionally through transcripts from programs on Alternative Radio and other progressive radio networks, so I'm roughly familiar with the perspectives of this Institute via those outlets. Generally, in leftist circles, it would be considered a "cachet" to be published among these other authors like Chomsky, while, obviously, from the perspective of conservatives, neo-cons, and right-wing people, it would be considered the "kiss of death." So who is evaluating who publishes whom matters too. Though people do attempt to be "objective" and to apply criteria for promotion and tenure "objectively," it's relative: A lot of subjectivity exists in matters such as these, esp. when political fires have already been enflamed by rhetoric on both sides of these debates.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 05:20:13 PM EST
    what's all this nonsense about subjecting Churchill to some kind of jerry-rigged, after the fact peer review? I hate to disappoint, but creating a separate, unique system of judging Churchill as opposed to the approach taken to the rest of the faculty for years is undoubtedly illegal anyway, I thought it was common knowledge that CU was considered one of the best, if not the best, party schools in America, with the recruitment and retention of football players based upon providing sexual access, not always willing, to female students so describing CU as some kind of academic bastion that has been tarnished by Churchill is pretty hilarious but that's not what it's really about, anyway, as it turns out that neo-conservative front groups are organizing people behind the scenes to disrupt Churchill's appearances run Kurt Nimmo through a search engine, and you will find his article about it on his website another troubling parallel with the practices of fascistic countries of the past, who relied upon their Blue Shirts, Brown Shirts and Red Guards to drive people from public view

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 05:27:32 PM EST
    Sorry--I should have typed "Institute for Social and Cultural Change" earlier; here are the South End Press's "writer's guidelines". That it takes approx. "a year" from submission to publication implies that there is some kind of review process occurring. Those interested in the precise nature of the kind of "peer review" that a submitted manuscript undergoes would need to query that press. (That's the sort of query that a promotion and tenure committee would need to do to be able to determine and evaluate the nature of the review process a professor's works is undergoing there.) In academic publishing, generally, the identity of outside press ("peer") readers is confidential and they remain anonymous to the author him or herself. Many reputable academic journals require blind (anonymous) submissions, wherein the identity of the author whose work a peer reviewer is evaluating is not disclosed, and authors are not to identify themselves in the references in their works to other of their own publications and paper.

    Re: CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk (none / 0) (#58)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 05:39:47 PM EST
    There is a difference between "subjectivity" and flat out falsehoods. Even if you believe America's actions caused 9/11, saying the victims of 9/11 deserved what they got is flat out incorrect. Does anyone here think of themself as "a little Eichmann", advancing the US military machine when they go to work? Therefore he is incompetent and should be fired. "so describing CU as some kind of academic bastion that has been tarnished by Churchill is pretty hilarious" I don't know if you try to alter the issue on accident or not. The issue is whether the state should pay this man, who is obviously incompetent, to educate its children. Should the state pay a lunatic to rant? What if a white seperatist with a degree gets tenure at CU and wants to teach the destruction of civilization because of whites mingling with mongral races. Is that OK with you?

    CU Cancels Ward Churchill Talk | 57 comments (57 topical)