Yesterday we had a question about the true author of the famous line, "Military justice is to justice what military music is to music." We thought it was George Clemenceau while Ernie the Attorney thought it was Groucho Marx.

Update: Tonight we heard from MadKane, currently a humor columnist, who wrote:

"I've worked as a musician (oboist) and as a lawyer, so your question got me curious. While not definitive, these two sources attribute the quote to Groucho Marx:"

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/
quotes/g/q100232.html

http://www.musicthoughts.com/t/514

"Of course the comparison isn't quite fair, since I can think of some good examples of military music -- Chopin's Military Polonaise, for instance. And even Beethoven wrote some military music. But as for good examples of military justice, I'm at a loss. Still, it's an amusing line and sure sounds like Groucho."

Ok, but we still aren't convinced because a google search had at least 70 attributions of the line to Clemenceau. Including, The New York Review of Books, 2/14/2002, Military Tribunals on Trial by Aryeh Neier, who wrote (about President Bush's tribunals order) "As written, the order violates, in different ways, the rights of all four categories; it recalls Clemenceau's famous comment about the Dreyfus case that "military justice is to justice as military music is to music."

Some others: The Introduction to a book called Military Law in Canada and a 1997 International Herald Tribune article by Mary Blume ("Military music bears the same relation to music as military justice does to justice, Georges Clemenceau famously remarked, weary perhaps of the sound of cunningly plangent regimental brass."

On the other hand, we also found a site that attributed the quote to Groucho while attributing this to Clemenceau: "War is much too serious a matter to be entrusted to the military."

Someone must know the answer to this. Please, clue us in.

We have a difference of opinion as to who coined the phrase, "Military justice is to justice what military music is to music."

We think it was George Clemenceau. Ernie the Attorney says it's Groucho Marx.

If anybody knows, let us know. We've had it attributed to Clemenceau on our Terrorism Trial Page ("Military Tribunals, Courts and Detainees" section) for months.

Law Professor L.H. LaRue says in footnote #2 to an article "What Is the Text in Constitutional Law: Does it Include Thoreau?", 20 Ga. L.Rev. 1137 (1986),

"'Military Justice is to Justice, as Military Music is to Music.' This saying is commonly attributed to Georges Clemenceau, but there is no proof that he actually said it. "

Thanks to Vodka Pundit for overcoming its reluctance to give us a link. TalkLeft is settling in quite nicely on VP as a "Cosmopolitan" - we couldn't have picked a better category! As the VP points out, we bought our link with our offer (see below under "Reluctant Link?") of a martini or a brew at his choice of pub on his next trip to Denver.

Welcome, VP--your link is up now on TalkLeft as well.

PS Our link on VP is in the name of the author of this weblog, rather than TalkLeft, so don't get confused.

We got a mention today from Vodka Pundit, but so far, no link. Seems that the VP, while agreeing with our position on matters concerning the Bill of Rights, objects to our mention this past weekend of an LA Weekly interview with Gore Vidal.

VP complains we are taking Mr. Vidal seriously. Actually, what we called the interview with Vidal was "an interesting read." We stand by that. Mr. Vidal certainly has a different take on September 11 and Oklahoma City than the rest of the world.

We hope VP keeps reading TalkLeft and decides we do deserve a link--like Altercation and Maxspeak have given us. As soon as he does, we'll buy him a martini or a brew at his pub of choice on his next trip to Denver from his home town of Colorado Springs. And, of course we will set up a nice link to him here.

Following Maxspeak's lead yesterday, Talkleft is proud to become today's site of the day at The People's Republic of Seabrook. We were advised to take it in stride as most of the readers over there "tend to be heavily medicated and/or deeply disturbed." That's okay, if they can read, we'll take them and we appreciate the recognition.

TalkLeft is finally going mainstream and creating a blog on its perennially "under construction" chat page. The intent is to create a home for thoughts, as opposed to links, on crime, politics and injustice.

We don't like Attorney General John Ashcroft's May 30 guidelines on warrantless monitoring of conversations (it shouldn't be allowed at all); on the use of confidential informants; on undercover FBI operations; and on crimes in general and RICO (organized crime) and Terrorism in particular.

If you're interested in reading them, you can find direct links on the CrimeLynx Research Page under "US Attorney's Manual and Other Documents"

It has become readily apparent that this Administration is not interested in preserving our rights, only in convincing a fearful public that it is fighting terrorism.

We really like the way the ACLU has jumped on Mr. Ashcroft and the administration since Sept. 11.

We think the FBI has no business engaging in domestic spying. Not after all its past abuses.

It seems like progressive and liberal websites and blogs are sprouting daily. Hopefully it will be in time to cause a major defeat for the Republicans in the 2002 elections.