Trump Says He Will Be Arrested Tuesday

Last week, former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen testified twice before the state grand jury (free link) and Stormy Daniels, the former adult film star, met with state prosecutors in New York. The grand jury is investigating Trump over a payment Cohen allegedly paid Daniels to keep quiet about a one-night sexcapade Daniels claims she had with Trump in 2006. (Trump married Melania in 2005 and Barron Trump was born in 2006).

Today, Donald Trump announced on his social media site that he expects to be arrested on Tuesday. He called on his supporters to protest and "take our nation back." [More...]

Of course, no one is coming to Trump's house at Mar-a-Lago or NY apartment to arrest him. His lawyers will be told in advance to surrender him inside the courthouse after the Indictment is returned and security arrangements have been made. There will be no perp walk.

As for saying it will happen Tuesday, even his spokesman today said that was a guess. One of his lawyers suggested the source of his tweet was news reports.

A Trump spokesman later on Saturday said the former president hasn’t been notified that he will be arrested and charged. “President Trump is rightfully highlighting his innocence and the weaponization of our injustice system,” the spokesman said.

I think the issue will be whether the state can prove the felony crime of falsifying business records versus the misdemeanor version of the same offense.

To elevate the crime to a felony charge, Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors must show that Mr. Trump’s “intent to defraud” included an intent to commit or conceal a second crime.

That second crime could be an illegal attempt to violate New York campaign laws by authorizing Cohen to make the payment to Daniels on his behalf and then re-paying Cohen in monthly installments disguised as a retainer for legal work that was never performed or intended to be performed or at a time when no retainer was in place. Or maybe it would just be approving the false categorization of the reimbursements as legal expenses in his financial records.

Daniels never met with Cohen or Trump during the time period of the payments. Her lawyer negotiated the details. Cohen made the payment to Daniel's lawyer from his his personal line of credit on his home mortgage. Why? He has said that because two payment dates to Daniels had come and gone, and Trump was on the campaign trail and he couldn't find him, she was canceling her agreement to stay silent. So at the last minute, Cohen made the decision to personally pay her. After Trump took office, Trump paid Cohen back in monthly installments of $35,000. The payments included a bonus and an amount for the taxes Cohen would likely have to pay.

There were 8 checks altogether. Six were written by Trump and one each by Don, Jr. and Alan Weisselberg.

Altogether, Mr. Trump or his trust paid Mr. Cohen $420,000, according to federal prosecutors. Of that, $130,000 was to reimburse payments made shortly before the 2016 election to Ms. Daniels, whose legal name is Stephanie Clifford, so she would not tell her story. Another $50,000 was for Mr. Cohen’s effort to manipulate online polls to inflate Mr. Trump’s reputation as a businessman.

That $180,000 was then “grossed up” with another $180,000 to offset taxes that Mr. Cohen would have to pay on the original money since it was being treated as income. Another $60,000 was added as a “bonus,” prosecutors have said.

Trump's defense team and several Republicans have opined that this is not a strong case against Trump. Republicans of course say indicting Trump will be bad for the country and democracy. That's ridiculous, in my opinion. I believe Trump reduced our global standing in the world for decades to come and is the source of any threat to our democracy. I don't think the nation will be any worse off if he is charged. I think foreign governments will cheer that Americans are taking back their country and freeing themselves from the man who never deserved to have a desk in the oval office to begin with.

I also don't think Trump's actual supporters will riot (as opposed to unhinged people who just want to riot and will do so in his name as an excuse). On the other hand, should he be indicted and his lawyers successfully get the charge dismissed before trial, his claims to be a persecuted victim may resonate with more Republicans, and that could affect the 2024 election.

The issue is likely to come down to Trump's intent in making the payments to Cohen. What if Trump's reason for silencing Stormy was to keep Melania from being publicly embarrassed rather than influencing the election?

It wasn't to keep Melania from finding out since Daniels claim was published in the media back in 2011. If he were trying to keep her from finding out, he would have made the payment then.

A witness is scheduled to testify Monday before the grand jury. It attorney Robert Costello, who Trump's legal team has offered as a rebuttal witness to attack Cohen's credibility. (In addition to targets of the grand jury getting notice of their right to testify, they can submit the name of someone to testify on their behalf. It's up to the grand jury whether they want to hear from the person.) Cohen long ago waived his right to confidentially with Costello, whom Cohen has sought out as a bridge to communicate with Rudy Giuliani and Trump prior to his decision to cooperate with the Government.

Not surprisingly, according to the Wall St. Journal (link above), if Trump is indicted in New York, he intends to continue seeking the Republican nomination. Of course he does. Only if he reclaims his desk in the oval office does he have the ability to stall the myriad of other and more serious criminal investigations into his conduct, under the rubric that a sitting president cannot be indicted. There is the criminal investigation by a state grand jury in Georgia, and federal grand jury investigations into the January 6 riots and his alleged mishandling of classified evidence.

It seems to me if all of these investigations were politically motivated to prevent him from having power, New York, Georgia and the federal government could coordinate the unsealing of indictments in New York, Georgia and Washington, DC to occur on the same date, so that Trump had to fly to all three courts on the same or sequential days to surrender. I can only imagine what the network nightly news shows would look like on those days. The public isn't stupid. Show them Trump's limo at the courthouse in NY, they shrug it off. But show them Trump's limos going to courthouses in three different jurisdictions to respond to totally separate sets of charges in rapid succession and they'll react like they typically do: "He wouldn't be there if he didn't do something wrong." It's fallout from the 1990's era of cable news crime show hosts: Guilt sells in America while the presumption of innocence is given lip service.

I will be clear, however, that even Donald Trump is presumed innocent until and unless he's proven guilty in a court of law (not your living room).

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  • Display: Sort:
    While (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by FlJoe on Wed Mar 22, 2023 at 05:35:08 AM EST
    we are waiting for the main course, heres a little karmic appetizer
    The former Florida lawmaker who sponsored the controversial law critics call "Don't Say Gay" pleaded guilty Tuesday to committing $150,000 in COVID-19 relief fraud.

    Joseph Harding, a 35-year-old Republican, pleaded guilty in Gainesville federal court to wire fraud, money laundering, and making false statements in connection with COVID-19 relief fraud, according to court records. He faces up to 35 years in prison at a hearing scheduled for July 25.

     Would it be wrong to wish him a "gay old time" for the next several decades?

    Small correction (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 22, 2023 at 08:27:50 AM EST
    D Kos says he "sponsored" the bill. It probably had many sponsees.  
    The guy actually wrote it.

    Joe Harding, the now-former Florida Republican lawmaker who authored the extremist "Don't Say Gay" bill could face up to 35 years in prison after pleading guilty Tuesday afternoon to federal felony fraud charges

    A gay ole time indeed


    I hope they (none / 0) (#15)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 22, 2023 at 08:57:39 AM EST
    checked his crawl space.

    Watching Trump crumble politically and mentally (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 24, 2023 at 05:22:03 PM EST
    is so ugly it's almost hard to enjoy.

    Al the (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by KeysDan on Fri Mar 24, 2023 at 06:10:29 PM EST
    more fitting to be the leader of the Republican Party.  He is just keeping up with them.

    Ugly (none / 0) (#36)
    by FlJoe on Fri Mar 24, 2023 at 06:21:53 PM EST
    is as ugly does, the perfect adjective to describe today's GOP and the whole right wing apparatus.

    And desperate (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 24, 2023 at 06:46:02 PM EST
    Trump is just losing his mind on his Truth thing.

    A lot of which seems like it might be evidence at some point.

    Ugly is inadequate.


    But (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 24, 2023 at 06:46:55 PM EST
    I still think he could be the nominee.

    At (none / 0) (#39)
    by FlJoe on Fri Mar 24, 2023 at 07:20:42 PM EST
    this point he is probably better than even odds to do so, the base loves them some ugly. Indictments will only rile them up more.

    Starting to think DeSanctimonious (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Mar 25, 2023 at 05:37:49 PM EST
    might not even run.  He's young.  There is plenty of time.  Why dive into the sewer.  

    Unless, you know, he just likes the sewer.

    Even if he wins the nomination Trump will destroy any chance of winning.


    If you read (none / 0) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 25, 2023 at 07:17:33 PM EST
    in places like politico he is assembling a presidential team abeit a ton of losers. I wish I could remember the names.

    I just don't see him going very far. Maybe he is hoping the indictments take Trump out. Indictments IMO actually make it worse for everybody running against Trump because they are all going to be forced to either defend him or throw him under the bus.


    Meatball Mussolini (none / 0) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Sun Mar 26, 2023 at 12:12:43 PM EST
    seems to be heading into Scott Walker ignominy. The Republican high rollers and the Republican foreign policy establishment seem willing and able to abide his domestic pogroms but have reservations about being ready for prime time. Rhonda's Russia/Ukraine "territorial dispute" didn't ride well.

    Why go for an ersatz Trump when the real thing is available and ready to go? And, one that doesn't wear white boots.   Sure, Trump is a Russian asset, but you can't have everything. Ted Nugent kicked off the wacko Waco rally with "Zelensky is a homosexual weirdo" to cheers---a twofer, foreign and domestic.

    Rhonda may be gearing up for a stab at the primary ( he hired a speechwriter who is an associate of the fascist Fuentes, the guy who accompanied Kanye West to Mar a Lago).  However, in my view, he has, figuratively, the same chance of surviving the primary as a Putin critic has of passing an open window unscathed.


    JebSantis (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Mar 26, 2023 at 12:38:49 PM EST

    Some of DeSantis's critics in Tallahassee have taken to calling him `JebSantis,' according to lobbyists and former lawmakers familiar with the comments

    I (none / 0) (#42)
    by FlJoe on Sat Mar 25, 2023 at 07:50:29 PM EST
    dunno, his version of the culture war sthick might be at peak value right now.

    If the facists win without him, in 6 years his ideas will seem "quaint", if they are beaten back his ideas will be seen aa the horrors that they are.


    CNN (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by FlJoe on Thu Mar 30, 2023 at 04:25:22 PM EST
    reporting the deed is done!

    The indictment will be unsealed when (none / 0) (#47)
    by Peter G on Thu Mar 30, 2023 at 06:52:21 PM EST
    an arrangement is made for Tr*mp to surrender in court in NYC for arraignment. Very curious to see whether there is more than one charge.
        I am quite sure there will be no "arrest," no handcuffs and certainly no "perp walk."
        I will be very interested to see what conditions the judge puts on Tr*mp's release, in terms of obstructive behavior and encouraging violence against the D.A.  Also, will there be restrictions on travel? Will the judge require that Tr*mp surrender his passport (as judges often do, when there is any risk of international flight)? And I will be equally curious to see whether Tr*mp can actually adhere to any conditions that are set, and what then?  

    Supposedly (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 30, 2023 at 07:07:03 PM EST
    Bragg is going to tell us what the charges are this week so maybe arrangements have been made? Rhonda says he won't help with extradition but hopefully it doesn't come to that and Trump's attorney has him turn himself in.

    I would think the judge would have him surrender his passport as he has a plane and could fly to anywhere to hide.


    Do you think DeSantis has a clue (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Peter G on Thu Mar 30, 2023 at 09:02:05 PM EST
    that "cooperation in extradition" between states is mandatory, not a matter of the demanded governor's discretion?

    And (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by FlJoe on Fri Mar 31, 2023 at 05:31:12 AM EST
    he is supposed to be the "smart" one, it's a low bar for the Republicans obviously.

    Disney sure took him to school.


    If that's the law, (none / 0) (#62)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Apr 03, 2023 at 11:17:58 AM EST
    how is it that Governor Jerry Brown was able to give sanctuary to Dennis Banks (of AIM) in California in the 1970s? Brown refused to extradite Banks to South Dakota.

    The U.S. Supreme Court decision (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Peter G on Mon Apr 03, 2023 at 01:27:56 PM EST
    declaring the duty of the asylum state's governor to be mandatory and judicially enforceable was not rendered until 1987. Read the Wikipedia article I linked. The political history of this clause is definitely fraught, given the Fugitive Slave Law as well as the notorious and well-deserved reputations of many states for engrained injustice, racial and otherwise.

    Thank you for the clarification Peter. (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Apr 03, 2023 at 04:41:17 PM EST
    It Might Be More than Stormy (none / 0) (#53)
    by RickyJim on Thu Mar 30, 2023 at 09:08:35 PM EST
    Donald Trump faces more than 30 counts related to business fraud in an indictment from a Manhattan grand jury, according to two sources familiar with the case - the first time in American history that a current or former president has faced criminal charges.

    I still think (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 31, 2023 at 06:43:49 AM EST
    we might find a conspiracy charge when it's unsealed.  They were working hard on the other playboy model so it's about women.  Not just Stormy.

    I genuinely feel sorry for his New York (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Peter G on Fri Mar 31, 2023 at 04:46:31 PM EST
    criminal defense counsel, one of whom I worked with on a case. It is no fun at all to have a client who will not even listen to you, much less take your advice, on the issue of how not to make things worse for themself. Such as by gratuitously, publicly and personally attacking the judge -- who I am 100% sure will treat Tr*mp with every courtesy and consideration, and then some -- before you have even appeared before him.

    I would imagine (none / 0) (#57)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 31, 2023 at 07:44:17 PM EST
    that what you stated is one of the reasons why Trump has such a problem getting attorneya along with the fact that his attorneys have a problem getting paid and tend to get into legal trouble themselves.

    Tr*mp's attorneys only get into their own (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Peter G on Sat Apr 01, 2023 at 10:52:21 AM EST
    legal trouble when they stop acting like professionals and start acting like PR flaks. Or when they start taking direction from the client without regard to the well-established rules that put important ethical limits on what you can do. Like all criminal defense lawyers, I have represented many narcissists, sociopaths and fools. (And many, many more good folks who made bad choices and/or were unable to overcome terrible childhoods, brain injuries, and/or addictions.) But like the great majority of my colleagues, I have never engaged in prohibited conduct when carrying out my responsibilities. Sometimes, it comes down to saying, "Look, do you want me to be your lawyer or don't you? Because if you do, then you are not going to be able to insist that I [X] or [Y]. It will not be better for you if I did, and anyway I'm not going to do that, no matter what." Never is the lawyer put in a position of having no choice but to act unethically, as long as they are willing to walk away if necessary.

    If you watch and listen carefully to (none / 0) (#59)
    by Peter G on Sat Apr 01, 2023 at 10:56:09 AM EST
    Joe Tacopina's public comments, you can get a master class in how a good lawyer walks that line. Not that I would choose to go on television or make so many public comments. But if the client and I did decide to speak outside of court, that's how it can be done under the rules.

    Why do you think (none / 0) (#60)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Apr 02, 2023 at 04:11:55 PM EST
    causes those to let their boundaries down?

    Being unable to resist being overpaid, or (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Peter G on Sun Apr 02, 2023 at 06:39:25 PM EST
    getting enamored of the publicity, or both. Definitely interested in our other lawyer-commenters' thoughts on this question.

    If Daniel's Claim Was in the Media in 2011, (none / 0) (#1)
    by RickyJim on Sun Mar 19, 2023 at 05:13:04 PM EST
    why care about what she would say in 2016?

    Because (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 20, 2023 at 08:57:07 AM EST
    it would yet be another story on top of about 25 others. Apparently he thought Stormy's interviews would be the straw that broke the camel's back and the Kremlin already used up it's last batch of "emails" with the Access Hollywood tape.

    I have two thoughts on this situation (none / 0) (#2)
    by Peter G on Sun Mar 19, 2023 at 09:13:31 PM EST
    1. I agree w/ J that it is very unlikely that Tr*mp will be "arrested" in the usual sense of the word. If charged in NY, I expect that he will appear and be released on conditions (bond). He will not be placed in custody or restrained at any time, would be my guess, even though another defendant, in like circumstances (other than his undeserved status as ex-President) might well be. Nor do I think he will be denied bond, although another defendant with Tr*mp's track record -- of disregard of legal process, such as subpoenas, and of violating his own promises to comply with legal obligations (such as to return all classified documents), and of publishing threats to those who might testify against him, and of public demonstrations of disrespect for the authority of the courts -- might well be denied bail. Many J6 defendants were detained before trial for less compelling reasons.
    2. The tactic of putting attorney Costello before the grand jury as a defense witness to attack Cohen's credibility is very risky. Costello is the very person who was the intermediary in seeking to secure Cohen's silence in exchange for a promise of a pardon. Costello's testimony could backfire and provide a basis for an additional charge of attempted obstruction of justice.

    I also (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 20, 2023 at 08:58:34 AM EST
    have read that Costello could initiate a witness tampering charge since he apparently tried to shut Cohen down.

    IMO this smacks of Bragg having an airtight case.


    Quite of the day (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Mar 20, 2023 at 08:29:18 AM EST

    'I'm a fan of RICO'

                     -Fani Willis

    More (none / 0) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 20, 2023 at 09:14:01 AM EST
    is in the news about RICO & conspiracy charges that are going to come out of the GJ here. Honestly, I'm not all that interested in the Trump indictment here because I think that is a gimme but in who else goes down with these charges. We also have fake electors one of which was elected LG last fall.

    Quite the quote (none / 0) (#7)
    by Peter G on Mon Mar 20, 2023 at 09:55:40 AM EST
    Don't quit and don't be quiet.

    It wasn't worth (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Mar 20, 2023 at 10:11:58 AM EST
    If that's true, then one word will suffice: (none / 0) (#9)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Mar 20, 2023 at 06:01:05 PM EST

    Rhonda speaks (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 21, 2023 at 08:47:06 AM EST
    Sure he took a swipe at Soros but it was an afterthought.

    Many Trump voters will not vote for a guy who says this about Orange Jesus

    "I don't know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star to secure silence over some type of alleged affair, I just, I can't speak to that," DeSantis said, to laughter in the background

    what went into it was (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 21, 2023 at 02:13:51 PM EST
    Trump verbally okaying the payment to Cohen but not coming through with the money fast enough for Stormy's liking, so Cohen paid with his own money to keep her silent at the end of October, right before the election, and then Trump paid him back in 2017 after he got a desk in the oval office. Weisselberg told Cohen how the money would be paid back. 6 of the 8 checks were paid by trump, and 2 were signed by Don. Jr and Weisselberg. Weisselberg testified before this grand jury.

    But the resultant falsification of Trump Organization business records to record as a legal expense the reimbursement to Michael Cohen for the $130,000 plus expenses paid to Stormy Daniels is a misdemeanor per New York state law.

    Further, that misdemeanor can be bumped up to felony status if the falsification of said records was done to cover up another crime, which in this instance might be the federal campaign spending violation cited in Michael Cohen's plea agreement.

    Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we endeavor to deceive. We'll have to wait and see what's filed by the Manhattan D.A.'s office.

    Personally, I think the greater legal threat to Trump in D.A. Alvin Bragg's hands is actually the former's alleged overvaluation and devaluation of various Trump-owned properties to secure business loans, lower tax rates, etc.

    I'll say it again. The worst single business decision Donald Trump ever made was declaring himself a candidate for the GOP presidential nomination in 2015. He could have lived quietly with his p0rn stars and Playboy models and laundered Russian money. Instead, he was a slave to his own ego and now, it's going to cost him.



    Is each payment (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 21, 2023 at 02:23:04 PM EST
    a separate count?

    Why Bragg and not Garland? (none / 0) (#16)
    by RickyJim on Wed Mar 22, 2023 at 10:15:59 AM EST
    From an opinion piece in yesterday's NY Times:
    Mr. Bragg, however, has had to pick up the slack, since federal prosecutors have not pursued such charges, for reasons that were clear under the corrupt influence of William Barr. Barr is reported to have shut down any follow-up investigation of Mr. Trump, but it remains murky as to why a criminal investigation or indictment of Mr. Trump has not been pursued under the current administration (Attorney General Merrick Garland has not explained publicly any reason for not pursuing this investigation).

    A guess is that the hush money case is slim pickings compared with the other stuff Garland has on Trump.

    Now (none / 0) (#17)
    by FlJoe on Wed Mar 22, 2023 at 03:04:39 PM EST
    it appears Bragg is dragging his feet and/or tRump was lying about the timeline.

    Per CNN

    A federal appeals court is refusing to block Donald Trump's defense lawyer, Evan Corcoran, from testifying and turning over documents about the former president as part of the criminal investigation into possible mishandling of classified documents.
    My understanding this was a lightning quick deciscion and all about crime fraud exception.

    The D.C. Circuit has denied a stay (none / 0) (#18)
    by Peter G on Wed Mar 22, 2023 at 03:35:06 PM EST
    of the order from D.C. District Chief Judge Howell that Tr*mp attorney Evan Corcoran must turn over documents relating to (non)compliance with directives to return all classified and other National Archives documents from Mar-a-Lago. Howell ruled that a sufficient showing had been made that Tr*mp used his attorney(s) to perpetrate a continuing crime, thus overriding the attorney-client privilege. She further ruled that Tr*mp's counter-arguments were too weak to justify a stay pending appeal. One day later, that is, today, a D.C. Circuit panel ruled that they agreed; no stay is warranted. So unless Chief Justice Roberts (or a majority of the entire Supreme Court) grants an emergency stay, the documents must be turned over and any full-blown appeal of the order will then be moot.

    Either Tr*mp was lying or he was (none / 0) (#19)
    by Peter G on Wed Mar 22, 2023 at 03:40:35 PM EST
    speaking in ignorance. Either is equally probable.  But Bragg is not "dragging his feet." I would guess he and his team are taking another day to make sure that the indictment properly charges all the offenses for which the D.A. has probable cause. That may take another day of editing. Of course, I don't know, but that's my guess.

    I'll take (none / 0) (#20)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 22, 2023 at 04:28:50 PM EST
    lying.   Trump has not lost his touch at leading the Media by the nose.  Trump gets out with the "arrest" story first and his "victim hood" justifies the marshaling of his Storm Trumpers.  DA Bragg may be allowing Trump's inflammatory provocation to cool down and keep the STs on their heels.

    The (none / 0) (#21)
    by FlJoe on Wed Mar 22, 2023 at 04:59:02 PM EST
    fact they are only getting around to the Stormy case after all this time tells me that someone has been dragging something.

    Many or most of the details have been public knowledge for years and yet they are still trying to tie up loose ends?


    I think it's a testament (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 22, 2023 at 05:33:09 PM EST
    to Trump and his lawyers ability to run out the clock.  
    This thing they just filed in the Fulton Co case, to bar Fani from prosecuting him and a dozen other silly pointless things that the bobbleheads say are only to get "some kind of ruling" they can then appeal and delay everything, is a good example.

    All these cases are finally coming to a head for the same reasons.  Trump is reaching the ends of his ability to delay.

    Still, I look at him and think even with all that's coming he will never see a day in jail.

    He drag it out till he's dead.  And live forever because you can't even make the shite up that he got away with.


    I (none / 0) (#23)
    by FlJoe on Wed Mar 22, 2023 at 05:45:30 PM EST
    saw no long drawn out court battles over the Stormy case, it appeared to be gone and forgotten. It surprised the hell out of me when Bragg revived it.

    I kind of agree with the Republicans, "is that all you got?"


    I've long thought that ... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 22, 2023 at 08:34:18 PM EST
    ... when indictments became inevitable, Trump would flee the country. Frankly, now would be a good time to have those bags packed if he was. If he doesn't, it may well be because he really doesn't have anywhere to flee other than to Russia, Saudi Arabia or the United Arab Emirates, and I can't imagine that the leaders of those countries would appreciate Trump showing up on their doorstep at this particular moment.

    Putin (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 23, 2023 at 08:16:15 AM EST
    might welcome him to hold him hostage over Ukraine. He might also be shocked that we would say keep him.

    Or he might send him to live with his BFF (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 23, 2023 at 09:38:08 AM EST
    Kim.  It's what I would do.

    I think (none / 0) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 23, 2023 at 08:15:29 AM EST
    he may end up in Club Fed eventually but he's not going to spend time in state prison.

    Considering his health and the timeline on these cases it could be he dies before sentencing. He's no spring chicken.


    Let me predict (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 23, 2023 at 09:40:37 AM EST
    that when the shite really starts hitting the fan he will begin having health problems.

    Real or imagined either would not surprise me.


    Who was it (none / 0) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 23, 2023 at 09:55:14 AM EST
    Which crony was claiming health problems? Manafort maybe?

    So yeah, that very well could be the MO of Trump also.


    Maybe Pres. Biden can dispose of Trump ... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 23, 2023 at 09:55:16 PM EST
    ... in a manner similar to how President Lincoln dealt with Rep. Clement Vallandigham (D-OH), a pro-slavery Democrat who was the all-too-vocal leader of the anti-war Copperhead faction in the North during the U.S. Civil War.

    Following Vallandigham's arrest, trial and conviction by military tribunal on charges of sedition against the United States by aiding and abetting the Confederate war effort, he was expelled from the Union and sent through enemy lines into Virginia.

    Historical postcript: After the war ended in a Union triumph, Clement Vallandigham returned to Ohio and made a few abortive attempts to regain public office before giving up and resuming his law practice. In June 1871, while representing a defendant in a murder case for killing a man in a barroom brawl, Vallandigham physically demonstrated to the judge how the deceased victim had caused his own demise by attempting to pull a gun from his pocket.

    Unfortunately, the pistol in Vallandigham's own pocket was loaded, and he accidentally shot himself in the abdomen. While he had proved his point and gotten his client acquitted as a result, he died of his wounds the following day. (Ironically, his just-exonerated client would be shot to death himself four years later in yet another saloon fight.)

    American history can be perversely but delightfully macabre.


    I am adding that one to my personal (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Peter G on Thu Mar 23, 2023 at 10:07:02 PM EST
    "Great Moments in Criminal Defense." Along with the Battle of Fort Wilson. (Much longer explanation here.)

    Unfortunately, U.S. history is littered with such mob-driven spasms, with ultimate being the New York City Draft Riots of July 13-16, 1863, in which hundreds of people were killed and federal troops had to be deployed to finally quell the violence.

    As much as we loath such uprisings, it's often only in retrospect that we realize upon investigation and reflection that public dissent and disgruntlement were a long time in brewing. All that was needed was an immediate spark to set everything ablaze.



    Will the indictment be unsealed (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 30, 2023 at 06:50:51 PM EST
    when he is arraigned?

    At the latest. (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Peter G on Thu Mar 30, 2023 at 06:54:44 PM EST
    It could be unsealed when the D.A. and the defense team reach agreement on his appearance to answer the charge(s).

    I read he is refusing to say (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 30, 2023 at 06:57:30 PM EST
    if he will surrender himself.  

    Yes (none / 0) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 30, 2023 at 07:08:22 PM EST
    and Rhonda says he won't help with extradition. Maybe some non-crazy person can convince him to turn himself in.