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Thursday Night Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Colorado News
Posted on Thu Jun 02, 2022 at 08:15:24 PM EST
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Our last open thread is full. Here is a new one.

Thanks to all of you who have pointed out "site violator" comments. I am working to delete them. When I delete them, I also deleted the comment referring to them, to maintain the flow of the overall thread of comments, if that makes sense. But I do count on readers to point them out, soe please keep doing so.

I am working on a post about the Johnny Depp trial and verdict which should be up sometime tonight. Shorter version: I'm very happy for Depp, as having watched hours and hours of the trial testimony, I didn't believe Heard at all. I hope he will be able to get movie roles again. I'm not a fan of his music, but I love his movies.

< Tulsa Shooter Targeted his Surgeon Over Excessive Pain | Johnny Depp Finally Clears His Name >

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    Thursday Night Open Thread | 184 comments (184 topical)

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    The Ozark finale (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 07:31:27 PM EST
    Would have blown my socks off if I was wearing socks.

    Amazing perfect flawless.  

    Sure, it sucked.  Like life.  The people who deserve to be punished are never the ones punished.

    That was the message of the series from the first episode.  Amazing.

    Meadows and Scavino will not be indicted (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 07:45:21 PM EST
    For contempt, the DOJ just released a statement saying this.  

    Parent
    Personally (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 05, 2022 at 05:21:04 AM EST
    I think Meadows is cooperating since a lot of his text messages etc. have made their way to the press. Maybe Scavino is cooperating too. Navarro however was indicted.

    Parent
    But you gotta love (none / 0) (#23)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 09:26:14 AM EST
    Ruthie....

    Parent
    Sure (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 10:28:41 AM EST
    She owned it right to the end.  

    I knew, in spite of trying hard to not know, her end.  Idiot bloggers put the spoiler in titles.  It was unavoidable and unfortunate

    That said, if I had not known I certainly would have expected it.  All the building up to a spectacularly happy ending for Ruth was like a tease.  You just knew she was not going to have that ending.  

    But the path was perfect.

    The major car accident.  Brilliant.  You think, ah, someone, at least Wendy is going to pay the piper.

    Then they survive.  And Wendy grabbing the priest guy and saying, "NO it's a sign we are going to make it"

    I thought, omfg it really is.

    The perfect cherry on top was the kid.  His total corruption by the dark side wasa brilliant twist of the knife.

    Parent

    Laura Linney (none / 0) (#29)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 01:35:07 PM EST
    became thoroughly detestable.  And I am a big Laura Linney fan.  But after a while, her character lacked any warmth or humanity....

    Ruthie's expression on her face at the end was just perfect and memorable.

    Jason Bateman's approach to physical crisis and threats....was very interesting.  A modern day Odysseus, always thinking and slipping the punch.....

    Yeah, the kid turned creepy in the end....    

    Parent

    Linney (none / 0) (#30)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 01:53:28 PM EST
    Graduated from Brown and is just lovely.  

    But I can still hear her say "Marty" on the show in that gawd awful tone of voice....Lady McBeth had more charm....

    Parent

    EMMY (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 05:24:21 PM EST
    nominations at least in their future.

    Parent
    I didn't enjoy the finale as much as you (none / 0) (#24)
    by McBain on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 09:32:59 AM EST
    but I found the final season overall to be a satisfying end to a quality show, highlighted by three very strong performances (Bateman, Linney, Garner).

    Parent
    Lisa Emery also shined as Darlene Snell (none / 0) (#26)
    by McBain on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 09:48:27 AM EST


    Parent
    Sort of an (none / 0) (#34)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 03:31:55 PM EST
    Agatha Christie ending in which a character of the past, gone away or previously thought to be  killed,  re-appears. And, here that character, Mel, brings the family together. Not to his liking, to be sure.   Ruth's departure paved the way for that unification in a very sad way, but she left on her own terms despite Camila's motherly revenge and firepower.

    Parent
    So, what I want to know is ... (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 08:10:24 PM EST
    ... after Javi killed Darlene and Wyatt at her farmhouse, and the cops were all over her property, how did they NOT find that shed full of heroin?

    Parent
    Different location (none / 0) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 08:24:22 PM EST
    I think

    Parent
    It's Oz (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 07:49:29 PM EST
    I think thats good

    McCormick concedes to Oz in Pennsylvania GOP Senate primary

    Pennsylvania GOP is now officially running (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 09:09:48 PM EST
    an all-crackpot ticket. An unabashed christofascist for governor, and a carney-barker level con-man for Senate. It is terrifying to think it could even be a real race; but it could.

    Parent
    Don't look upon it as 'terrifying.' (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 01:29:07 AM EST
    Look instead upon Dr. Oz's nomination as a golden opportunity to pick up a GOP-held Senate seat. We need to stop playing defense and go on offense. Don't worry about what Republicans think. Let them be afraid of what we're thinking. And I'm thinking a lot of us are ready to kick some GOP a$$.

    Parent
    Fetterman on (none / 0) (#25)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 09:41:40 AM EST
    style points alone should do well--especially in Pittsburgh area.  I went to junior high and high school in Youngstown, Ohio just across the state-line from Pittsburgh--when the steel mills were still king and Mean Joe Greene and Jack Lambert were playing. The fans of those guys would just love Fetterman....And the high tec, modern day, steel-less Pittsburgh would vote for him too.  

    And Oz is so not Pennsylvania....The Steel Curtain, South Philly, he is not.

    But who knows.

    Your Gubernatorial candidate should do just fine.   No less an august politico (sarcasm, here) than Hugh Hewitt fears your AG--who is running for Governor.  Thinks he could be strong candidate in 2024 for POTUS.  

    Parent

    AG Josh Shapiro is from my county (none / 0) (#31)
    by Peter G on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 02:29:08 PM EST
    His first public office was as chair of our county board of commissioners. When I first heard him speak at a local Demo fundraising dinner, he stood out head and shoulders over anyone else in the room in multiple dimensions:  bright, handsome, charming, articulate, smooth, genuine liberal (in both the good and bad ways, that is, solidly just-left-of-the-logical-center of almost any issue, and always in the mainstream). Could be our first Jewish president?

    Parent
    Sounds good to me (none / 0) (#33)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 02:37:42 PM EST
    Is 2024 too soon if Biden does not run?

    A Pa. guy, who is smart?  But taking on Kamala would be tough.

    Parent

    Peter, Shapiro has all your qualities. (none / 0) (#35)
    by fishcamp on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 04:48:00 PM EST
    Why don't you run for President?  

    Parent
    Ha, ha (none / 0) (#36)
    by Peter G on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 04:58:40 PM EST
    Not handsome/photogenic. Too old. (Yes, I know, younger than Biden or Tr*mp. Yet, all of us are too old for the job, imho.) And not liberal, on a lot of issues (as I defined that position in my comment).

    Parent
    On the Senate race (none / 0) (#32)
    by Peter G on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 02:34:15 PM EST
    I can't help wondering whether a significant number of Republican voters just won't pull the lever for a Muslim, when Oz's religious affiliation becomes better known. And who has not severed his political ties with Turkey (or "Türkiye"), having served in their military and voted in their elections, even though he is obviously a U.S. citizen (albeit a resident in truth of New Jersey, not Pennsylvania). That's a lot of baggage.

    Parent
    I would (none / 0) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 05, 2022 at 06:58:42 AM EST
    think the Muslim issue would be a problem for the GOP base. How do you think the recent news about Fetterman is going to affect the race?

    Parent
    Mr. Fetterman's (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jun 05, 2022 at 09:52:01 AM EST
    Heath condition is serious, but manageable.  His heath care team reported that he had a pacemaker and ICD (implantable cardioverter defibrillator) procedure. The ICD can send a shock that converts an arrhythmia to sinus rhythm.

    His team also reported that his overall treatment regime e,g., drug, diet, exercise, will permit return to the campaign and to serve in the senate, if elected. Mr. Fetterman has relative youth (age 52) on his side as well.

    Not in a good position to assess political ramifications, but it did not appear to affect the primary vote, albeit close to his heath event and the absentee balloting, but my guess is it will not impact    In a major manner, the vote.  After Mr. Fetterman is back on the campaign trail any lingering concerns should be abated. And, then there is the disreputable Dr. Oz.

    Parent

    Dick Cheney has an ICD (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Jack E Lope on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 12:13:11 PM EST
    ...and it didn't seem like a big deal when he was Pres..., um, Vice-President. The cardiovascular and electrophysiology labs refer to an ICD as a "boom box".

    Cheney's got a boom box
    He wears in his chest

    Parent

    I doubt many will vote (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 05, 2022 at 12:42:32 PM EST
    with his health as an issue against Ozzie.

    But I guess I had not been paying attention but I was a little shocked how overweight and unhealthy he looks - looked - when the stories about his health started, compared to a thinner healthier person I remembered from what seemed like just a few months ago.

    Parent

    Fetterman's first ads (none / 0) (#59)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 09:23:22 AM EST
    Not so subtle hints...I'm one of you...not a carpetbagger.

    source

    First ad:

    Braxton White, an Army veteran and local school board member, says in the spot that for years "Washington, D.C. attacked towns like" Braddock -- a struggling steel town in southwestern Pennsylvania where Fetterman previously served as mayor -- by writing "bad deals that sent away our jobs" and approving "the drugs that kill our kids."

    The ad then draws a contrast in Fetterman, saying that "for 20 years, he's lived in a place like this, building, pushing, fighting." It highlights his support for a $15 minimum wage, revitalizing the manufacturing industry, and "good American jobs."

    Second ad:

    This is a race for the future of every community across Pennsylvania," Fetterman says, as he talks about factories closing, prices rising, and small towns being left behind. "Those decisions were made for us, by people that don't know us. And that's exactly who we're running against. Pennsylvania is our home, and it's worth fighting for."

    I like them. Hopefully, there are enough sane people in PA for them to work.


    Parent

    I have come to the conclusion (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 08:52:54 AM EST
    that the GQPs drive to outlaw abortion and do nothing about the slaughter of children in schools is connected. They feel there is no reason to do anything about guns and/or weapons designed for war because, with the outlaw of abortion, there will be plenty of replacements coming for the slaughtered children.

    That's dark (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 09:10:03 AM EST
    I think they are connected tho.  It's all about chaos and control

    Parent
    I'm calling out their BS that all life is (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 11:46:43 AM EST
    "precious." It's unadulterated BS. George Carlin nailed it back in 1996.

    "Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to 9 months. After that, they don't wanna know about you."

    If all life is "precious", then these a-holes would falling all over themselves to stop this carnage. But obviously the ability to own an AR-15 is more precious than kids no longer in the womb.

    It may be a dark message, but it's the one Democrats should be driving home every effing day. These people don't give two shites about anyone's life but their own.

     

    Parent

    Wasn't really disagreeing (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 12:57:29 PM EST


    Parent
    I know, Capt., I know. (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 01:34:58 PM EST
    I am admittedly worked up these days over the bile being spewed daily by the reprehensible, gutless blowhards that comprise the GQP.


    Parent
    You might have a point (none / 0) (#60)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 09:29:25 AM EST
    Evidently, their emphasis on "replacement theory" is just another political ploy.

    All available data indicates that increasing the births in the US, will reduce the number of years for white people being the majority population. Of course, I guess that allows them to promote their agenda even stronger.


    Parent

    Hazard pay (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 03:11:57 PM EST
    CNN

    "It is sobering that in 2017, there were 144 police officers who died in the line of duty and about 1,000 active duty military throughout the world who died, whereas 2,462 school-age children were killed by firearms," said Dr. Charles Hennekens, the study's senior author and an academic adviser at the medical college.

    The study, to be published in the American Journal of Medicine, found that children are being gunned down in staggering numbers, with the death rate six to nine times higher than other developed nations.

    The gun deaths included 6,464 children between the ages of 5 and 14 years old (an average of 340 deaths per year), and 32,478 deaths in children between 15 and 18 years old (an average of 2,050 deaths per year), according to the study
    Of the 2000 gun deaths per year of (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Peter G on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 03:30:35 PM EST
    high schoolers, about how many were suicides, how many accidents, how many killed by friends and family members, and how many by strangers or in other criminal episodes, I wonder? The grade schoolers, I figure, are nearly all accidents (careless storage at home) and killing by distraught parents, dontcha figger?

    Parent
    Peter, as of June 6, 2022, ... (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 08:36:19 PM EST
    ... there were 18,979 firearms-related deaths so far this year, of which 10,494 were suicide.

    The number of children ages 11 and younger killed by firearms was 155, with 324 wounded. 563 older children between 12 and 18 years of age have been killed and another 1,489 wounded.

    25 police officers have been killed and another 162 wounded by firearms in the line of duty this year, while the number of people shot to death by officers is 616, and the number wounded by officers is 378.

    Here's the link to Gun Violence Archive, which updates its data daily, and per its name, keeps an archive of past years. If you click on that link tomorrow or Friday, you'll see that all those numbers I cited will have increased. It's a good site, and I think you'll find it interesting and useful.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    The majority of (none / 0) (#89)
    by BGinCA on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 04:15:41 PM EST
    firearms deaths were assaults.
    Among children and adolescents aged 5 to 14 years, intents associated with firearm fatalities were classified as accidents (830 deaths; 12.8%); suicides (1912 deaths; 29.6%), assaults (3545 deaths; 54.8%) and undetermined causes (177 deaths; 2.7%).5

    Among adolescents aged 15 to 18 years, causes of death were classified as accidents (1121 deaths; 3.5%), suicides (10,688 deaths, 32.9%) assaults (20,247 62.3%), and undetermined causes (422 deaths; 1.3).5 No deaths were classified as terrorism.

    Not reported was the motivation of the killers.


    Parent

    Am I naive to be shocked (none / 0) (#103)
    by Peter G on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 07:23:24 PM EST
    that the percentage of suicides among shooting deaths of 5-14 yr olds is not that much lower than the percentage among 15-18 yr olds?

    Parent
    Greatest country in the world (none / 0) (#87)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 03:25:56 PM EST
    Strike up the band.

    No it isn't. Not even close.

    Parent

    A 26-year old (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 05:32:15 PM EST
    Simi Valley, CA. man has been arrested for the attempted murder of Justice Kavanaugh.

    Good police work: acting on a tip from the man arrested, the police met the man at the location where the man said he would be---on public space near the Justice's home, and arrested him.

    The attempted murder charge seems curious given the facts presented by law enforcement. Attempted murder would involve intent as well as taking a substantial step beyond preparation.  Although, his firearm, gear and travel from CA to MD, probably counts as such.

    Awaiting the Supreme Court decision that may strike down NYC ban on concealed carry of firearms.  Maybe, as a good Republican, Kavanaugh will brick-in all but one door in his house and arm his wife and children.

    Lesson: What goes around, comes around, as in the words of Kavanaugh.

    Attempted murder? (none / 0) (#104)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 07:41:27 PM EST
    Roske was found in front of Kavanaugh's home with a gun and other weapons after he called emergency personnel threatening to kill the Supreme Court justice and himself.
    "Roske stated that he began thinking about how to give his life a purpose and decided that he would kill the Supreme Court justice after finding the justice's Montgomery County address on the internet," according to the affidavit.

    The Simi man told police he purchased the pistol and other items "for the purpose of breaking into the justice's residence and killing the justice as well as himself," according to the affidavit.

    He repeated the death threats to an FBI agent before he was arrested.



    Parent
    An attempted crime requires (none / 0) (#105)
    by Peter G on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 07:50:31 PM EST
    a "substantial step" toward completion of the offense, beyond "mere preparation." Not necessarily the "last step," particularly where the perp is intercepted by police action. Although I must say it does sound like we may have a significant mental illness issue here, as in many if not most cases of threats to kill public officials.

    Parent
    Speaking as a county public official who ... (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 08:50:00 PM EST
    ... was the recipient of four separate death threats in 2021 because I wanted to get people vaccinated against COVID, I have to agree with you. These people are off their rocker.

    Investigators subsequently determined that all four threats to me came from the U.S. mainland, so it was probably more the result of ideological bluster than anything else. Why they'd want to harass a guy in Hawaii, I have no idea.

    But it has taken its toll on me because my guard is always up. Honestly, I didn't sign up for any of this when I agreed to take the position in 2018. We live in such ugly times right now.

    Take care.

    Parent

    An argument (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 09:12:38 PM EST
    for a Red Flag register.

    Parent
    A very strong argument (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 09:56:32 PM EST
    that makes a lot of sense. Which, is precisely why I doubt it will happen.

    If nothing else, intensive mental health treatment is warranted. With all of the Republicans' rhetoric about the gun violence being a mental health problem and not a gun problem, it will be interesting to see where they come down on this occurrence. Door #1: Recommend mental health treatment. Door #2: Lock him up and throw away the key.  Door #: Execute him.

    IMO, it will be a toss up between 2 and 3.

    Parent

    From what I read, (none / 0) (#111)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 08:50:14 PM EST
    he called the police and turned himself in.

    I'm definitely not a lawyer, yet, under the circumstances, I can't understand how the charge of attempted murder could apply.

    Parent

    What I read is that he called 911 and (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Peter G on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 09:02:06 AM EST
    said he was feeling suicidal and thinking of killing the Justice. Instead of arranging a mental health anti-suicide intervention, it seems, they got him to meet up with US Marshals around the corner from K's house, where he was duped into a conversation sufficient to constitute an admission/confession of the more serious crime (attempted murder) and then arrested.

    Parent
    If the MD authorities (none / 0) (#113)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 09:14:58 PM EST
    stick with this charge he is likely to walk.

    Parent
    What I've noticed in all (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 09:08:54 AM EST
    the write ups I've read, is that there is no discussion of mental illness being blamed. A lot of pounding of chests, condemnations from Republicans and Democrats alike, loud demands for increased protection of the justices but no mention of mental illness or recommendations for prayers as a solution to keep them safe.

    Now I'm confused. I thought it was not a gun problem but a mental health issue or lack of prayers.

    Parent

    He was charged (none / 0) (#116)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 08:05:35 AM EST
    by the DOJ under the Judicial Protection Act and , according to CNN, has agreed to stay in jail until his hearing June23.  He told the judge he thinks he understands the charges. He took some drugs that day but it was not indicated as to what drugs.  His gun  and other gear were, apparently, not on his person when arrested, but in his suitcase and backpack.

    Parent
    He was charged (none / 0) (#117)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 08:05:53 AM EST
    by the DOJ under the Judicial Protection Act and , according to CNN, has agreed to stay in jail until his hearing June23.  He told the judge he thinks he understands the charges. He took some drugs that day but it was not indicated as to what drugs.  His gun  and other gear were, apparently, not on his person when arrested, but in his suitcase and backpack.

    Parent
    He was charged (none / 0) (#118)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 08:05:54 AM EST
    by the DOJ under the Judicial Protection Act and , according to CNN, has agreed to stay in jail until his hearing June23.  He told the judge he thinks he understands the charges. He took some drugs that day but it was not indicated as to what drugs.  His gun  and other gear were, apparently, not on his person when arrested, but in his suitcase and backpack.

    Parent
    He was charged (none / 0) (#119)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 08:05:54 AM EST
    by the DOJ under the Judicial Protection Act and , according to CNN, has agreed to stay in jail until his hearing June23.  He told the judge he thinks he understands the charges. He took some drugs that day but it was not indicated as to what drugs.  His gun  and other gear were, apparently, not on his person when arrested, but in his suitcase and backpack.

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 08:24:43 AM EST
    A 4 banger.  Hope that doesn't replace the double post.

    Parent
    Repetition (5.00 / 4) (#127)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 11:34:17 AM EST
    has value, but "rounding the bases" is beyond the pale. This new-tangled technology will be the death of me, me, me, me.

    Parent
    I believe 4 is a record! lol. I think I did 3 (none / 0) (#129)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 02:12:22 PM EST
    a couple months ago.

    The weapons and tools were in his possession in the bags/luggage that he was carrying.

    "On his person" clearly does not mean "holding in his hand" but is it limited to mean "in his pockets" or "stuck in his waistband" etc?

    According to an affidavit filed in US District Court, Mr Roske was spotted by two US Deputy Marshals while getting out of a taxi in front of a Supreme Court justice's home.

    Carrying a suitcase and a backpack, Mr Roske turned to walk down the street.

    Roske was arrested earlier Wednesday outside Kavanaugh's home in Montgomery County, Maryland, where he had shown up with a backpack and suitcase containing a Glock 17 pistol, ammunition, a knife, tactical gear, pepper spray and other items, including zip ties, a hammer, a screwdriver and duct tape.

    Maybe his plan was he going to shoot Kavanaugh and then fix his leaky faucet?

    Parent

    Maybe he changed his mind (none / 0) (#131)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 03:07:53 PM EST
    and turned himself into police instead.

    Soon after, the Montgomery County Emergency Communications Center received a call from Mr. Roske, who said he was having suicidal thoughts and had a firearm in his suitcase, according to the affidavit.

    He said he had traveled from California to Maryland "to kill a specific United States Supreme Court Justice," the affidavit said.

    Officers from the Montgomery County Police Department arrived and found Mr. Roske still on the phone with the communications center.



    Parent
    Maybe (none / 0) (#132)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 03:42:19 PM EST
    And agreed about news feeds not mentioning mental health. I could only find one reference, and it's certainly isn't mainstream.

    Parent
    I know I would not (none / 0) (#133)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 04:30:11 PM EST
    find him guilty and I can't believe that they could find 12 people to convict him either. Bottom line, it looks like he took positive steps to prevent himself from taking any action. Even a mediocre lawyer, should be able to make that case to a jury.

    Hopefully he gets some type of legal representation soon, before they badger him into taking some type of erroneous plea deal.

    Parent

    He is represented by an Assistant Federal (none / 0) (#135)
    by Peter G on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 04:59:27 PM EST
    Public Defender, I believe. Those folks are generally excellent. And no one is badgered into a plea in a federal case this soon after arrest.

    Parent
    I hope you are right (none / 0) (#137)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 05:48:58 PM EST
    I would prefer that he not receive prison time for his thoughts prior to taking preventative action to prevent himself from following through.

    As you stated earlier, arranging a mental health anti-suicide intervention for him rather than charging him with murder might have been the way to go.

    Parent

    Agreed, mental illness issue seems involved. (none / 0) (#125)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 10:24:07 AM EST
    That and/or drug abuse.

    Parent
    A dual diagnosis (none / 0) (#126)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 10:58:58 AM EST
    would not be uncommon. Quote from news report on response to judge.

    "I think I have a reasonable understanding, but I wouldn't say I'm thinking clearly," he responded, confirming that he was a college graduate and had been taking an unspecified medication.



    Parent
    So I'm really looking forward to the hearing (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 08:27:54 AM EST
    I really hope they can make what seems to me to be the most important point:

    It's not over.  This is about what happened Jan 6 but even more importantly it's about the continuing campaign to subvert the Democratic process that is on going.

    In the scheme of things, (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 10:11:56 AM EST
    this is not that important but it really ticked me off.

    Meghan is being mother shamed in the press for not ironing the dress that Lilibet wore in the photo Harry and Meghan shared on her 1st. birthday.

    A rather mean and petty comment at best; not to mention, that it is highly unlikely that the baby's dress started out the day wrinkled.

    The shared photo was a candid shot taken by Misan Harriman sometime during the picnic to celebrate her birthday. It was not a posed studio shot. Frankly, I'm surprised it was not more wrinkled after people holding the baby and her crawling around.

    I guess if you are predisposed to hate Meghan Markle, anything is fair game. IMO, the people who leveled the criticism and the press who printed it are crass and beyond low class.

    Jan. 6 Committee Hearing at 8PM EDT Tonight (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by RickyJim on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 11:44:05 AM EST
    Is there a precedent for the time?  My recollection is that previous high profile committee hearings were in the daytime.

    Stephen Colbert summed it up best: (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 06:29:16 PM EST
    "This insurrectionist conspiracy was, like everything else associated with the last administration, exactly what you thought - and worse than you could've imagined."

    Parent
    My GQP congressman is a bigger (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 08:16:40 PM EST
    $cumbag than I already imagined. Liz Cheney called him out not once, but twice. What a POS.

    I am waiting (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 05:22:01 AM EST
    to see what comes out about my current/former rep Barry Loudermilk who was leading reconnaissance missions prior to the attack on the capitol.

    Researching Perry he already had a criminal record. I guess your district thought that was okay?

    I keep telling people that Marge isn't the problem here. The problem here in GA is the voters that elect her.

    Parent

    If I previously knew you were in Perry's district, (none / 0) (#143)
    by Peter G on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 09:41:16 PM EST
    I had forgotten. That lowlife is definitely in a "class" by himself.

    Parent
    I had high hopes (none / 0) (#146)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 10:43:11 PM EST
    For DePasquale in the last election.

    Parent
    Expect he will regret this (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 12:47:29 PM EST
    Saying his name twice sort of suggests she has reciepts

    Scott Perry Denies He Sought Pardon from Trump
    June 10, 2022 at 1:41 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard Leave a Comment

    Rep. Scott Perry (R-PA) "blasted any suggestion that he sought a pardon from President Donald Trump for himself or others, rejecting an eyebrow-raising claim that was made during the House January 6 committee's first major public hearing the day before," Insider reports.

    Said Perry: "The notion that I ever sought a Presidential pardon for myself or other Members of Congress is an absolute, shameless, and soulless lie."



    Parent
    I'm really loving these blue (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 01:23:07 PM EST
    Make America Think Again caps I've been seeing out there.

    The WaPo reports (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 01:30:19 PM EST
    that Ginni pressed 29 Republican state lawmakers in Arizona to set aside Biden's popular vote victory and just "chose" electors.  This number is 27 more than the two previously uncovered, and consisted of one-half of the Republicans in the state legislature.

    Ginni's emails to the Republicans went out just days after the media called the race for Biden in Arizona and nationally. Ginni, once again, on Dec 13, sent emails urging the override of the popular vote.

    Clarence, dissented in a case arguing against providing records to Congress that might have revealed some of these emails.  

    About 20 million - preliminary numbers (5.00 / 3) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 02:43:19 PM EST
    numbers will grow when streaming and others are added

    TheHill.com

    MEDIA
    Nearly 20M watched Jan. 6 hearing: Nielsen
    BY DOMINICK MASTRANGELO - 06/10/22 3:14 PM ET
    SHARE
    TWEET
    ...
    MORE

    Nearly 20 million people watched Thursday night's first hearing of the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol across broadcast and cable news, according to preliminary ratings figures from Nielsen.

    Each of the major television news networks pre-empted their regularly scheduled programming on Thursday to show continuous live coverage of the two-hour hearings.

    ABC took the largest haul of viewers, earning 4.8 million viewers while NBC and CBS carried 3.5 million and 3.3 million, respectively.

    On cable, MSNBC pulled in a whopping 4.1 million viewers during the hearings, nearly four times what the network averages on a typical weeknight.

    Usually dominant Fox News Channel came in second place on cable on Thursday night, averaging 3 million viewers from 8 to 10 p.m. CNN came in third place with 2.6 million.

    I love FOX was knocked out of first place

    I am eager for your analysis (none / 0) (#1)
    by Peter G on Thu Jun 02, 2022 at 10:08:24 PM EST
    I was totally unable to get a grip on the evidence as a whole, with the trial running so long. But experience has taught me to respect juries, so I'd like to know. I thought I had read that Heard had some solid corroboration for her version. What debunked that?

    IMO, the jury felt Heard lacked credibility (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 12:27:43 AM EST
    and believed that she acted vindictively and "acted with actual malice."
    While I only saw bits and pieces of the trial, I think that certain pieces of evidence presented by Depp's legal team allowed the jury to question (fairly or not) the validity and motivation of Heard's actions and elements of her defense. Here are some of the key elements IMO:

    ..Testimony that Heard admitted that she sh!t in Depp's bed. (high impact)
    ..Heard's claim that there was no monetary motivation to her actions since she was donating the $7m to charity. During cross examination she had to admit that she in fact kept most of the money.
    ..Recording of Amber admitting that she physically attacked Depp and recording of Amber taunting Depp about are you really going to tell the world that I attacked you...no one will believe you (paraphrased).
    ..Huge mistake to introduce into her testimony the idea that Depp pushed Kate Moss down the stairs; thereby, allowing Moss to testify that not only was there no truth to the accusation, he rushed to her side and took care of her after her accident.

    Bottom line they didn't believe her and they just disregarded her version.

    Parent

    Now we are learning who closly (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 01:04:20 PM EST
    followed this civil trial.

    Parent
    Jeralyn evidently watched a lot more of the (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 01:34:07 PM EST
    actual trial than I did.. it will be interesting to read her take on it.  

    Parent
    There were some problems (none / 0) (#7)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 09:17:43 AM EST
    with the photos she claimed showed injuries.  Police who arrived on the scene after one alleged assault didn't notice any injuries.  

    You also have to factor in the court of public opinion.  I wasn't rooting for Heard but this wasn't a fair trial.  We need to rethink how we do high profile trials.

    Parent

    Why Wasn't It a Fair Trial? (none / 0) (#9)
    by RickyJim on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 10:41:33 AM EST
    It wouldn't surprise me.  As everybody here knows, I am no fan of the adversary system and juries of ignoramuses.  

    Parent
    The court of public opinion was strongly (none / 0) (#15)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 04:53:34 PM EST
    against Heard.  I think it's very likely the jury knew this.  Had it been Harvey Weinstein instead of Depp or even someone neutral I don't think the outcome would be the same as I believe the law was on Amber Heard's side when it comes to defamation.  This is one of few times I mostly agreed with the mob.  

    Parent
    While I can't completely discount the impact (none / 0) (#13)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 03:41:48 PM EST
    Of the court of public opinion. I'm not convinced that if all other aspects remained the same, the jury would not have rendered the same verdict if that element had not existed.

    Juries are first and foremost human beings. There were 5 men on the jury. They listened to Amber admit that she struck Depp and also on at lease 2 occasions attack Depp's manhood...(paraphrased) ok I hit you... quite being such a baby about it...are you really going to tell people that you, a man, are a victim domestic violence...no one will believe you.

    I doubt that the men on the jury felt a lot of sympathy for Heard. Then the incident with the bed strongly suggested that she was a vindictive person and capable of acting with actual malice.

    Parent

    "Actual malice" is an ill-chosen phrase (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 09:16:00 PM EST
    invented by the Supreme Court as the standard for libel cases involving public figures. It does not mean, in this context, what those words normally mean in English. It means "actual knowledge that your words are false or a state of reckless disregard as to whether they are true or not." It seems to me that evidence of fouling your lover's bed has nothing to do with that, no matter how malicious that conduct is in the ordinary sense.

    Parent
    the incident happened (none / 0) (#183)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 05:28:55 PM EST
    when she and Johnny had an argument in April 2016, after Amber's birthday party. (He was late to the party and said he had been with his accountant who had given him some bad news about his finances). He testified she got more and more worked up and he finally had had enough and said he was moving out and just grabbed a few things and went to a hotel.  

    She was leaving the next day for a trip with a girlfriend to  the Coachella concert. The next day he called his security guard and said he wanted to go by the house and pick up more of his things, especially mementos. The security guard said no, you don't want to go to your house.  He had seen a picture of the fecal matter on the bed that the housekeeper had taken. Later, Amber testfied under oath it must have come from their Yorkshire terriers and denied having anything to do with it. But photos show it was way too large to come from the dogs. Johnny said it could only have come from her or her friend.  A few weeks later Amber filed for divorce.

    Starling Jenkins III, a longtime executive chauffeur and security guard for Depp who is still under his employ, previously said under oath in the trial that Heard told him the defecation was "a horrible practical joke gone wrong."

    Jenkins also testified at the Virginia trial by video:

    Speaking from a live video call to the court in Fairfax, Virginia, Jenkins recalled accompanying the Aquaman actress to Coachella in 2016. While driving Heard to the festival one night, Jenkins says they "had a conversation pertaining to the surprise she left in the boss's bed" following a fight she and Depp allegedly had before she departed for the trip with friends.

    Clarifying that the "surprise" was "the defecation," Jenkins testified that Heard told him it was "a horrible practical joke gone wrong."

    This also came up in the London trial.

    It's certainly relevant to her credibility, particularly as it happened so close to the divorce.

    Parent

    Technically this wasn't a case (none / 0) (#16)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 05:15:26 PM EST
    to determine if Amber Heard was bad person or even if she  had abused Depp in some way.  It was supposed to be if her Op Ed slandered him.  The interesting questions are what counts as abuse and what happens if there's at least some mutual abuse?  Heard's team argued all she needed to win was to be correct about one of her claims.  There was audio and video of Depp yelling and slamming cabinets while appearing to be intoxicated. I believe a less beloved person wouldn't get the benefit of the doubt the way Depp did.

    But you're right about jurors being human.  Despite my criticism of the trail, I was hoping for Depp clean sweep.  Hopefully, this will put and end to the "believe all women" aspect of the MeToo movement.  

    Parent

    I agree that it wasn't a case to determine (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 06:15:01 PM EST
    if Heard was a bad person. Had it not been put before a jury, there is a case to be made that the verdict might have been different.  

    The interesting questions are what counts as abuse and what happens if there's at least some mutual abuse?

    Yelling and slamming cabinets vs actual physical abuse is IMO in not in the same ballpark. A large majority of marriages would encounter spousal abuse if the criteria was yelling and the person being abused could change on a frequent basis.

    From the verdict, it appears that the jury did not believe Amber was abused by Depp. IMO, it was not so much "we love you, Johnny." as "we don't believe you, Amber."

    As far as the "Me to Movement" is concerned it could be said that elements appeared in this instance when one of the parties stated, "I don't care if you tell everyone because they won't believe you." Pretty standard rhetoric in domestic abuse cases.

    Parent

    We are having (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 08:25:50 AM EST
    a bit of a spike in new COVID cases in my rural county.  Took my dog to the vet yesterday.  Vet and an assistant have COVID.

    Ever since the TX shooting (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 08:45:05 AM EST
    I have been unable to have my usual BG noise of cable news.  Can't take the ghoulish wallowing in grief.

    The good news is I have been devouring audio books.  Since the shooting I have finished the excellent SciFi trilogy Three Body Problem, two King books Later and Revival, both the best King in a long time IMO and also Dune Messiah.  I'm about half way through Children of Dune.

    I think going forward if I have news on it will be sound off and close captions.  With alternative audio.

    The network of public libraries is pretty great.

    Libraries are fantastic (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 09:05:37 AM EST
    I'm one of their biggest fans. Not only do they offer you a cornucopia of books, music, movies, educational and career enhancement opportunities, they have been a life saver for many people in my area. They have offered free meals, diapers and job search and other services too numerous to mention.

    Parent
    I guess they have (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 09:14:35 AM EST
    a national sharing network for audiobooks.  Maybe other things too.

    The selection is great.  We recently got a new library.  The old one was not much.  I just went to check it out when it opened.  Glad I did.

    Parent

    We are very lucky (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 09:33:44 AM EST
    to have great library facilities in the St. Louis and St. Louis County area. Most have been renovated and upgraded within the last couple of years. Their computer access, labs and classes are first rate which is an important service that I failed to mention before. Every age group...kids, students at all levels and seniors use their computers and printers.

    Parent
    Agreed (none / 0) (#10)
    by RickyJim on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 10:52:05 AM EST
    Not only for audio books but I have access to a huge number of Blu-rays/DVDs.  It is totally unnecessary for me to subscribe to a standard streaming service.  However I do subscribe to Wondrium, formerly known as Great Courses Plus.  It requires a Roku TV or stick for the best visual streaming experience.  For courses where I think audio is sufficient, I listen on my phone.  One can also watch on a computer monitor but TV is better, especially for the travel courses.

    Parent
    A little more about our wonderful (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 10:51:11 AM EST
    library system. Just one of the life supporting events being offered this summer.

    Nine SLCL branches are offering a nutritious lunch along with activities for kids from 12:00-1:00 p.m., Monday-Friday. Meals will be available free of charge for children 18 and under.

    Parent

    I loved the (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 01:56:41 PM EST
    SLCL.  Spent many an hour there, including in high school and college.
    St. Louis doesn't get the recognition it should for a number of things.  They were very early in public education regarding developing gifted and talented programs, and also special education programs.

    Parent
    WOW! (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 02:57:56 PM EST
    This is fantastic and really, really well earned. I'm so proud of our libraries. (Source email to my personal account)


    The Institute of Museum and Library Services announced today that St. Louis County Library is one of six recipients of the 2022 National Medal for Museum and Library Service, the nation's highest honor given to museums and libraries that make significant and exceptional contributions to their communities.
    ...
    Selected from 30 national finalists, the 2022 National Medal for Museum and Library Service winners represent institutions that provide dynamic programming and services that exceed expected levels of service. Through their community outreach, these institutions bring about change that touches the lives of individuals and helps communities thrive.  
    .

    Together with community partners our libraries have provided essential services such as meals, diapers, technology, tutoring, vaccines, masks, tax preparation services and rental assistance at our branches.

    Parent

    Oh well, (none / 0) (#14)
    by desertswine on Fri Jun 03, 2022 at 04:11:31 PM EST
    another sleepy, dusty, Delta day.

    Seems like (none / 0) (#28)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 04, 2022 at 12:33:11 PM EST
    nothin' ever comes to no good on Choctaw Ridge..

    Parent
    Any fans of the DUNE series (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 05, 2022 at 12:47:46 PM EST
    After the original, I mean.  I just finished the third one and I'm about the start the fourth.  God Emperor of Dune.

    I keep being surprised how "topical" they seem.  Novels from the 70s that could have been written as a response to the current political climate.

    More even than when they were written.  Maybe that's just being a great writer.

    What is this with Republicans (none / 0) (#44)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 11:08:44 AM EST
    deciding their best choice to run in elections are men with a history of physical and sexual abuse. Missouri's own Eric Greitens who was accused of sexually assaulting and blackmailing his former hairdresser and physically assaulting his ex-wife and small son.

    Just read about Trump endorsed candidate, Herschel Walker who doesn't deny holding a gun to his ex-wife head and threatening to blow her brains out. He is also accused of threatening an ex-girl, allegedly threatened to blow her brains out and then kill himself.

    Own the libs? (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 11:21:24 AM EST
    I can't think of another reason except they actually prefer this kind of history in a candidate.  And I honestly don't think thats it.

    I really think it's own the libs.  Make then cry. Beyond  that I don't think they care, like at all, how that's done.

    Whatever upsets the libs is good.   Wife beating pedo candidates a-ok.  Their only job is to sabotage government so who cares.

    Parent

    Well, in good Evangelical (none / 0) (#46)
    by MKS on Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 12:07:03 PM EST
    fashion, Herschel has put that behind him.  Being an Evangelical (especially a Southern Evangelical) means being able to do anything, and get away with anything.  

    All you gotta do is say "sorry" and say something "religious" sounding.

    But, the problem here is that Herschel did it again more recently.

    Parent

    Well, I believe in growth, forgiveness and (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 06:55:05 PM EST
    second chances. That's not a bad thing at all. I do not believe that people should be forever condemned for the worst deeds in their past. What's problematic (to put it mildly) is not acknowledging that the past behavior was wrongful and hurtful to others, and not explaining what steps you have taken to  make amends and to ensure it will not re-occur.

    Parent
    Yes, that is a good thing (none / 0) (#61)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 10:20:09 AM EST
    to believe.

    Actual experience, however, makes me wonder.

    Parent

    Flinty eyed (none / 0) (#62)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 10:21:32 AM EST
    realism teaches that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

    Parent
    To be clear (and I hope this is unnecessary) (none / 0) (#66)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 12:31:51 PM EST
    my willingness to accept personal reform with forgiveness does not imply in any way a belief that all former miscreants are suitable candidates for seats in the U.S. Senate!

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 12:12:33 PM EST
    That's hardly unique to southern Christianity

    Parent
    After an extensive search (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 11:11:35 AM EST
    to pinpoint the location of his brain, I bet they'd find a goodly amount of CTE on top of everything else.

    Parent
    Starting to feel like (none / 0) (#48)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 05:45:06 PM EST
    I'm the only one who would rather squirt lemon juice in a paper cut than hear one more thing about Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.

    Mr. Zorba says (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 07:00:31 PM EST
    that he'd rather have burning bamboo splinters shoved under his fingernails than hear any more about Depp and Heard. ;-)

    Parent
    A man after my own heart (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 07:21:15 PM EST


    Parent
    But, per some op ed-ers, this verdict (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 12:12:50 AM EST
    spells the death of you too.

    Parent
    Well, I'm probably the only one who believes ... (none / 0) (#56)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 01:52:38 AM EST
    ... that in their next lives, Johnny Depp and Amber Heard will shack up again - only this time, his body will never be found.

    Parent
    Legalese (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 08:26:11 PM EST
    The good kind

    In what is being described as a "great day" for the state's bees, a Californian court has ruled that they are fish.

    The issue presented here is whether the bumble bee, a terrestrial invertebrate, falls within the definition of fish," the judges said in their summation. Under CESA, "endangered species" can be birds, amphibians, reptiles, mammals, or fish. Insects like bees do not make the cut, under this definition.

    link

    My legal interpretation (none / 0) (#53)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 06, 2022 at 09:09:30 PM EST
    has the Bee piggy-backing on tuna fish.  Hence, Bumble Bee Tuna.    And, therefore, a fish.   S. Alito

    Parent
    It will be interesting to see who wins (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 02:28:31 PM EST
    The race for LA mayor.  I'm thinking the billionaire

    John Fetterman, the Dem candidate for U.S. Senate (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 06:51:06 PM EST
    in PA, ran a great little on-line ad today supporting the right of his Republican opponent, Dr. Mehmet Oz, to vote for the candidates of his choice in today's New Jersey primary. With a copy of Oz's currently active voter registration there. Cutting!

    Parent
    Fetterman's health (none / 0) (#75)
    by BGinCA on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 07:46:48 PM EST
    From far away Cali, it looks like Fetterman's stroke is a fatal blow to his campaign. Whats the closer view?


    Parent
    Who exactly would vote for the Wizard of Oz (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 07:50:32 PM EST
    -- a carney fraudster -- rather than Fetterman for this reason, if Fetterman's (actual, reputable) doc says he's fine to run and serve?

    Parent
    He is still alive and kicking. (5.00 / 5) (#85)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 11:25:04 AM EST
    How many Senators have continued to be re-elected and served after near death health incident. I believe Strom Thurmond was incoherent and in a wheelchair and still serving in the Senate.

    Oz is a carpet bagger and a quack. Fetterman is a Pennsylvanian. I think that will mean something to a lot of voters.

    Hell, I've been here nearly 17 years and don't really consider myself a Pennsylvanian. Oz got here last week.


    Parent

    Didn't see that one (none / 0) (#77)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 08:13:05 PM EST
    The other two I saw were really good. He is definitely hitting the fact that Oz is a carpetbagger who has done nothing for people in PA and knows nothing about them or their needs.

    Parent
    Those are made for TV (none / 0) (#78)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 08:29:30 PM EST
     and very good, I agree. The one I referenced was online only, a quickie just for today.

    Parent
    Oh, the Republican...turned Independent (none / 0) (#71)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 02:42:05 PM EST
    turned Republican...turned Democrat.

    Wouldn't bet against the guy with the big bucks and I'm sure he has real in-depth knowledge of the needs of everyday people in LA.

    Parent

    It is close (none / 0) (#80)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 11:57:02 PM EST
    but if you add in De Leon's numbers (very progressive left) to Bass's, she could still eke it out in the General in November.

    Caruso is shrewd.  He is a Democrat now, and has advertised success on the Police Commission and other ventures in public life.  He has run away from anything Republican.  And he has had a gazillion t.v. ads here.

    People misunderstand California.  A tough on crime candidate can win.....Just don't bash the LGBQT community.....and stay away from the Evangelicals....

    Parent

    Quite worried about whether Chesa Boudin (none / 0) (#73)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 06:47:49 PM EST
    will survive his recall election as District Attorney for San Francisco.

    Parent
    The D.A.'s job is to prosecute. (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 04:32:05 PM EST
    Somehow, that sort of got lost in Chesa Boudin's message about criminal justice reform. Now obviously, that wasn't the only thing that was going on in his office, and they were actually prosecuting cases of wrongdoing at an effective rate. But unfortunately for Boudin politically, "criminal justice reform" that was the only thing being broadcast over the office's P.A. system to the general public. That's on him.

    Now that said, what I found truly despicable about the campaign to recall Chesa Boudin were the thoroughly disgusting and disreputable efforts to tie him to the notoriety of his own parents, former Weathermen radicals Kathy Boudin and Dan Gilbert, who were both convicted of murder in the 1981 Brinks robbery and sentenced to prison when he was only a toddler.

    Throw in the additional fact that his subsequent guardians as a child of incarcerated parents were longtime celebrated leftists Bill Ayers and Bernadette Doorn, and you had a perfect storm of orchestrated insinuation, infamy and outrage in conservative and moderate circles that likely doomed Boudin from the outset and tipped the scales into landslide territory.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    David Gilbert, not Dan (none / 0) (#168)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 10:45:37 PM EST
    and Bernardine Dohrn, not Bernadette Doorn. But correct analysis.

    Parent
    Done (none / 0) (#79)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 07, 2022 at 11:51:16 PM EST
    2-1 for Recall.  

    It was all over for Boudin imo when the smash-and-grab gang ran through Macys in Union Square.....

    And, there is something like 7% Republican voters in the City......

    Parent

    A couple of Dem House Reps (none / 0) (#81)
    by MKS on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 12:40:57 AM EST
    in Orange County that the national GOP had targeted are running well over 50% in the combined Primary that includes the GOP candidates too.

    Katie Porter is running really strong.....Just the Primary but all the GOP candidates together are not even getting close.

    Losing Katie Porter would be (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 07:07:42 AM EST
    the political crime of the century. Glad to hear she is doing so well.

    If I had my wish, all Dem politicians would have her talent and willingness to take it to the opposition. We need many, many more Katie Porters.

    Parent

    Her District (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by MKS on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 09:55:54 AM EST
    was once ruby red not too long ago.  I am still amazed she was elected in the first place.

    Parent
    Loved watching Rep. Porter this morning ... (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 08:17:41 PM EST
    ... as she rhetorically disemboweled Amy Swearer of the Heritage Foundation. Swearer is an ideologue who functions effectively only when her audience is limited to like-minded conservatives. She does not fare so well in exchanges with knowledgeable non-conservatives such as Rep. Porter, who's an actual professor of law.

    Parent
    I wonder (none / 0) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 11:01:29 AM EST
    if anything regarding November can be read from this.

    Parent
    He has a point (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 04:47:13 PM EST
    As Addison DeWitt might say, an idiotic one but a point.


    Christian Pastor Calls for Gay People to Be Executed
    June 8, 2022 at 4:07 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 226 Comments

    Pastor Dillon Awes delivered a sermon saying that all gay people should be killed, LGBTQ Nation reports.

    Said Awes: "Every single homosexual in our country should be charged with the crime, the abomination of homosexuality, that they have. They should be convicted in a lawful trial. They should be sentenced with death."

    He added: "They should be lined up against the wall and shot in the back of the head! That's what God teaches. That's what the Bible says. You don't like it? You don't like God's Word, because that is what God says."
    I (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by FlJoe on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 04:51:26 PM EST
    wonder what's in his closet?

    Parent
    Someday (none / 0) (#97)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 05:15:02 PM EST
    they will find him with a little boy's foot in his pocket.  

    Parent
    It would (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 09:46:24 PM EST
    be consoling, somewhat, if Pastor Dillion was a one-off.  But he has company, for example, Preacher. Joe Jones, of Boise who, this  past May, called  on MAGA's to execute the gays.  And, of course, the " grooming campaign" is foundational to such steps.

    Parent
    Just to make the point (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 04:53:25 PM EST

    "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

    Leviticus 20:13

     that blurb on Political Wire caught my attention because I am currently working on a large drawing based on the verse about Azazel and the Scapegoat which is also from Leviticus.

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    The Goat (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 05:21:25 PM EST
    WIP

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    You gotta love Azazel (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 05:02:13 PM EST
    He's like the real OG.

    Damned for corrupting men with Bling and Makeup.

    And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways."

    And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein.

    Book of Enoch 8:1-3a

    And there was the thing about shagging human females and creating a race of evil giants.

    Parent

    Daniel Chester French (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 05:05:39 PM EST
    The Sons of God Saw the Daughter's of Men That They Were Fair

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    A stochastic terrorist Fatwa (none / 0) (#98)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 05:20:03 PM EST
    The kind of thing that could and probably eventually will inspire another mass shooting.

    It doesn't help that the biggest gun hoarders are often also the kind of people that follow the Aweses of the world.

    Parent

    Meh (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 05:54:38 PM EST
    Maybe I'm just used to the threat.  You could say it represents great progress that statement is newsworthy.  It was not that long ago it would just have been Sunday.

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    It's (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by FlJoe on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 06:08:15 PM EST
    getting to the point where the humpers are no longer content to fondle their precious, they want to use them on the likes of us. Seriously.

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    Just been Sunday.. (none / 0) (#139)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 06:27:33 PM EST
    I was gonna say not in these parts, but somebody told me recently that their pastor here in Western NY announced recently to the congregation that you can't be a Christian and vote Democratic.

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    I (none / 0) (#93)
    by FlJoe on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 04:57:56 PM EST
    thought that Jesus cancelled all that killing sht.

    I would call that selective reading (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2022 at 04:59:03 PM EST


    Parent
    2 tops (none / 0) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 02:59:37 PM EST
    Or 2 bottoms

    I love this


    Burger King Austria is selling a silly Pride Whopper featuring "two tops" or "two bottoms"

    Well that would be worth a trip to Vienna. (none / 0) (#134)
    by desertswine on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 04:36:03 PM EST


    Parent
    It's funny because one thing we all know (none / 0) (#136)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 05:44:16 PM EST
    is pairing 2 tops or 2 bottoms is not the way to a happy ending.   Generally.

    Parent
    Is it kind of like (none / 0) (#147)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 01:39:44 AM EST
    going to school looking like you were dressed by two different mothers? (e.g., a plaid shirt and a striped skirt? A turquoise blouse and an emerald green skirt?)


    Parent
    Heh. (none / 0) (#164)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 05:36:16 PM EST
    One of my earliest fashion lessons I can recall was the time when I was nine years old and we were going out to dinner with my grandparents, and my mother sent me back inside to change because "you don't wear plaid with stripes unless you're also wearing face paint, a big red nose and an orange wig." Ouch.

    Have a wonderful weekend.

    Parent

    One positive ruling from the SCOTUS (none / 0) (#138)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 05:58:03 PM EST
    Supreme Court Allows Undated Ballots in Pennsylvania

    "The Supreme Court said on Thursday that election officials in Pennsylvania may count mailed ballots accompanied by voters' declarations that were signed but not dated," the New York Times reports."

    An excellent victory for my affiliate's (none / 0) (#140)
    by Peter G on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 06:33:18 PM EST
    top notch voting rights team, with support from the National ACLU. Very pleased about it here in PA. One thing I love about this case is that the contested ballots have not been counted, so we don't even know who the decision favors, in partisan terms. It's a 100% pure "every qualified voter's vote should count" case.

    Parent
    Very nice ruling for the primary (none / 0) (#141)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 07:47:32 PM EST
    An even better ruling for the general.

    Parent
    The first January 6 (none / 0) (#144)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 09:54:52 PM EST
    Hearing was masterful. Part I. through the illustrated opening statements of Chair Thompson and Vice Chair Cheney, made it abundantly clear that Trump knew his claim of a stolen election was a lie, going to his intent.

    Trump was told that he lost the election and that he was told that there was no evidence of election fraud or irregularities.  Testimony to that effect included AG Barr, Ivanka (who respected Barr), the replacement AG , the Trump campaign numbers guy, and members of his staff.

    Part II reviewed the violence with new and disturbing images  and documented that it was planned and coordinated using thuggish groups such as the Proud Boys followed by "ground troops" of fevered Trump supporters and diehards. It was not a rally that got out of hand.  Or, of course, a tourist episode or legitimate political discourse.

    What did Trump know and when did he know it?   Everything and from the beginning.  He was at the helm. And, he was aided and abetted by Republicans, to be fleshed out in future hearings---Republican members of Congress who knew they were breaking laws since they sought presidential pardons.

    While this should be a criminal trial of Trump rather than a Congressional hearing, it lays, effectively, the foundations for the crimes of Trump for Americans.

    Liz Cheney was very (5.00 / 3) (#145)
    by desertswine on Thu Jun 09, 2022 at 10:36:17 PM EST
    very impressive.  It's too bad that the people who needed to be watching, weren't.  For me, it was merely re-inforcement.

    Parent
    Even if (none / 0) (#148)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 05:16:34 AM EST
    those people watched it would not change their minds. They are too far gone. Think about how much it took to undo the Nazi allegiance in post WW2 Germany and that is where we are with conservatives.

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    It really was (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 07:56:32 AM EST
    I don't think June is going to be a fun month for Trump and the Republicans who enable him.

    It was so different from a typical house hearing.  Very smart to just have the two leaders speak.

    There was quite a bit of news last night but the thing I kept thinking about, maybe because it was in the last moments, was the guy who said --

    "He has done so much for me and this is the only thing he's has ever asked of he"

    Or words to that effect.  Man, it would take a while to unpack that but what I would really seriously like to know is what exactly he imagines Trump did for him.

    Bringing him into the "mainstream"?

    Parent

    And as my wife immediately pointed out (none / 0) (#151)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 09:29:34 AM EST
    there was definitely something else Tr*mp asked from him, in addition to voting and attending the January 6 rally ... endless donations.

    Parent
    I imagine (none / 0) (#152)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 11:31:08 AM EST
    Trump gave him self esteem. Trump told him he was special and deserved special treatment. It would be interesting to hear what the guy means by that.

    Liz Cheney had the best line IMO with Trump will be gone but something about it will hang around on his apologists IMO.

    Parent

    He didn't really DO anything (5.00 / 3) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 12:01:27 PM EST
    He didn't repeal Obamacare.  He didn't build the wall.  His lame attempts at executive actions were largely laughed out of court.  His "tax cut" sure didn't help that guy.

    All he did for this guy was to bring hateful bigotry and aggressive ignorance into the mainstream.

    Parent

    It's as if Drumpf (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Jack E Lope on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 12:21:43 PM EST
    ...was handing out participation trophies.

    Plus gaslighting. Can't leave out the gaslighting.

    Parent

    What she said was... (none / 0) (#155)
    by desertswine on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 12:40:55 PM EST
    "I say this to my Republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible: there will come a day when Donald Trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain."

    She should have mentioned that his stench will linger forever.  Why is trump not locked up yet?

    Parent

    Let's send (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 01:39:42 PM EST
    a YouTube video of last night's hearing to Merrick Garland.  He probably did not see it being busy making Kavanaugh's and Alito's houses safe and all.

    Parent
    More and more conservatives (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 02:48:23 PM EST
    A saying things like if Garland does not charge Trump THAT would be a political decision.

    Rather clever reverse psychology.

    Parent

    Under AG Garland, DOJ doesn't conduct ... (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 05:44:50 PM EST
    ... its business in public. I suspect that one day we'll wake up, turn on the TV and learn that Trump and associates were arrested a few hours earlier in a series of pre-dawn FBI raids, and are presently in custody awaiting arraignment in federal court. And I can live with that.
    ;-D

    Parent
    The thing is, that arresting the former president (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 10:39:53 PM EST
    of any nation, by the new administration, seems very banana republic-like. Not saying it wouldn't be warranted in this instance, but the case has to be iron-clad and fully explainable to the public as being 100% justified under serious criminal law and not even a smidgeon political.

    Parent
    Prosecuting (5.00 / 3) (#169)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 06:35:19 AM EST
    former leaders may seem like a banana republic, allowing them to get away with crimes is a bannana republic.

    The Republican descent into lawlessness didn't start with tRump. For decades they have internalized the lesson that they could get away with pretty much anything and not face any consequences because of the "optics".

    The bar is always placed impossibly high, I understand the ironclad and justified criteria, but explainable to the public is problematic and removing politics is impossible

    Parent

    Not prosecuting (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by jmacWA on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 06:52:50 AM EST
    sets the floor for next time IMO.

    Parent
    You can't please everyone, Peter. (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 04:36:43 PM EST
    Personally, I can't think of anything that would more quickly and thoroughly undermine our country's long-held collective belief that we are all subject to the rule of law and not the rule of man, than our failure to indict and prosecute a former president who clearly attempted a coup d'etat in an effort to retain personal power, in blatant violation of his oath of office and our Constitution.

    To quote that late UCLA coach John Wooden, "Failure to act is often the biggest failure of all." At what point do we finally face up to the very real existential threat posed to our democracy by this a$$wipe Donald Trump and his corrupt cronies, and grow a pair?

    Sometimes, as distasteful, distressing and unpleasant as it might be to us to actually act in an unprecedented manner ourselves, we just have to dismiss all the excuses that others will inevitably offer for doing nothing in this instance. We have to roll up our sleeves and do what we all know has to be done.

    Pursuant to our Constitution and the rule of law, former President Donald Trump has to be arrested and charged for his crimes committed against the American people in his naked ambition and pursuit of power. As Benjamin Franklin once counseled us, "A republic - if you can keep it."

    Let's all please aim to keep it. Aloha.

    Parent

    With ample publication of invitation to (none / 0) (#177)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 01:20:36 PM EST
    appear.   No stun bombs, predawn "raid" unless opportunity refused.

    Parent
    All in the Family (none / 0) (#157)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 10, 2022 at 01:14:28 PM EST
    Ivanka  agreed with Barr that claims of a stolen election were "bullshIt".  Jared said he was too busy "getting pardons done" to consider WH Counsel Pat Cipollone and his staff's threats to resign over the Big Lie---"to be honest with you, to be whining."  Yes, just whining about being charged with complicity in a crime.

    Fortuitous that the couple managed that $2Billion investment from the Bone Saw Prince since they will surely be cut off from any inheritance. But, then, they probably know about Trump's "$Billions" and see no risk.   Never-the-less, they are destined to be demoted to Eric status.

    I thought that clip was the least persuasive (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by Peter G on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 11:42:00 AM EST
    bit of the hearing. The statement they excerpted was not direct and clear enough to be powerful, and was so short that it was clearly taken out of a larger context that I was left wanting to see. And unless she conveyed her belief to her father in December and/or January (which she may have, but the excerpt doesn't address that) in her capacity as "senior adviser," it hardly matters what she personally thought about Barr's comments.  And of course what matters more is his response to whatever it is that she said to him, which also remains, so far, unmentioned.

    Parent
    But, the Ivanka (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 01:27:04 PM EST
    clip was very effective in the portrayal of the Big Lie, when weaved together  with others, especially Barr's "bullshit" made for TV testimony.   And, TFG helped it along with his subsequent tweet essentially saying his daughter did not know what she was talking about--- the daughter who wanted to be known as the first daughter,  was a confidant of the president and sat in for him at international meetings.

    Perhaps not persuasive  for a criminal trial, but powerful to a description of the Committee's investigative discoveries about the  foundation to the coup d'etat.

    Parent

    Trump really magnified the Ivanka blurb. (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 02:26:06 PM EST


    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#175)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 12:13:56 PM EST
    also thought it was gratuitous. I thought Barr straight out calling BS was powerful and some of the others were more definitive on what trump was told about the election. The inclusion of Ivanka added nothing but seemed more of a troll of her dad.

    Maybe it's part of the rehab of Barr's and later Pence's reputation,  probably all part of Cheney's 30 pieces of silver.

    Parent

    She didn't want to throw Daddy (none / 0) (#184)
    by Jack E Lope on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 05:51:03 PM EST
    ...too far under the bus. She might have to pull him out.

    It appears to me that Ivana Jr. is trying to find the sweet spot where she can avoid prosecution (or conviction) and avoid being disinherited/disowned/served polonium.

    But that is just my guess.

    Parent

    I read (none / 0) (#173)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 11:23:43 AM EST
    where Vanky was already walking this back. I sort of expected that to happen.

    Parent
    That will be (5.00 / 2) (#179)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 02:25:39 PM EST
    like putting the toothpaste back in the tube.  

    Parent
    I can not believe the so called (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 09:13:23 AM EST
    librul media is acting SO excited about this laughably transparent Murdoch play for favorable PR after being trashed for refusing to air the J6 hearings.

    So they have one message in their broadcast media and a completely different on in their newspapers

    For the very important .03% who can F'ing READ.

    But the RAWSTORY's of the world are soooo excited.


    Trump 'refuses to accept reality': Murdoch newspaper says it's time for GOP to move on

    I kept waiting, but without satisfaction, for (none / 0) (#172)
    by Peter G on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 10:27:07 AM EST
    the committee chair or vice chair to say, not just "he's lying," but also, "The indisputable truth is that ...." For example, "The indisputable truth is that millions more Americans cast their votes for Joseph Biden to be President than voted for Donald Tr*mp, and they did so in more than enough different states that there was a significant majority of electoral votes for the Biden-Harris ticket rather than for Tr*mp-Pence. The simple truth is that Biden won the presidency fair and square, and Tr*mp lost."

    Parent
    I Was Waiting For (none / 0) (#176)
    by RickyJim on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 12:30:46 PM EST
    something like, "And beyond a reasonable doubt, Trump knew that he had lost but thought that he could hold onto the presidency through sheer power and/or violence."  Did I miss the chair or vice chair saying that?

    Parent
    Yes, you (5.00 / 2) (#181)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 11, 2022 at 02:49:07 PM EST
    missed some of  that.  But, you should have understood, just from this first of a series of these Congressional hearings, that Trump learned, from a variety of his own appointees, including his AG, office of legal counsel and his campaign statisticians, that Biden won and he lost.   Yet, he promulgated the unfounded Big Lie of a rigged and stolen election.

    And, that he attempted to overthrow the government of the US through a plot that involved electoral subversion and organized and coordinated violence--to the end of preventing the  peaceful transfer of power and unlawfully remaining in office.

    You will need to await a criminal trial by jury for that "beyond a reasonable doubt" part of your expectation.

    Parent

    Thursday Night Open Thread | 184 comments (184 topical)

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