Donald Trump Impeached for Second Time

Donald Trump has been impeached for the second time by the House of Representatives. The vote was 232 to 197. 10 Republicans voted with the unanimous Democrats.

There will be a Senate trial after Joe Biden takes office. No timeline is set.

So long as he exits the White House and takes his children and son-in-law and top current and former aides with him, I don't care what label America ultimately tags him with.

Questions: Will he spend the next week issuing pardons to himself and his family and Rudy Giuliani? Will the Trump Organization face a slump in revenues? Will every hotel he's licensed his name to change its name and stop paying licensing fees? Will Deutsche Bank call his loans early or refuse to extend them?

Where will Ivanka and Jared go now that it's pretty obvious she won't be taking Marco Rubio's seat from him anytime soon? Will they be sorry they plopped $31 million down on a plot of land on a tiny island in Miami? Will Melania and her parents and Barron go back to New York? Will Donald move to Dubai? [More...]

What will happen to the shrieking couple, Don, Jr. and Kimberly?

What happens if Donald Trump can't pardon himself, and having pardoned all his friends and children and in-laws, he's the only one in his crowd to go to jail? Will Kim Kardashian fight for his release when she's finished with law school? What if Donald Trump doesn't have enough money to pay for all the lawyers he'll need? Will Jared fund them or will he have to rely on Tiffany?

So many questions, so little time to answer them. The good news is in 7 days he will be gone from the White House and our lives.

< House Votes on Impeachment of "World's Most Dangerous Man" | 100 Pardons Coming >
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    Anyone Else... (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 11:19:38 AM EST
     ...really hoping Trump tries to pardon himself ?

    Good Point... (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 12:15:05 PM EST

    The Democratic leader lamented how the Capitol is being guarded by troops today, one day before Joe Biden's nomination, because of the violent attack on the building by a pro-Trump mob earlier this month.

    "As we speak, there are more troops in and around the Capitol than there are in Afghanistan," Schumer said.

    Looking ahead to Trump's impeachment trial, Schumer made an impassioned case for the president's conviction. Schumer argued Trump would continue to "poison the public arena" if he was able to launch another presidential campaign.

    This is just wrong, IMO (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 01:00:11 PM EST
    Link (none / 0) (#114)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 01:47:09 PM EST
    looks good, but I think it might be off

    Looks de-lish. (none / 0) (#117)
    by desertswine on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 03:04:43 PM EST
    LOL Not sure how that happened (none / 0) (#119)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 05:36:29 PM EST
    Try (none / 0) (#118)
    by Zorba on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 03:29:21 PM EST
    Will he pardon (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 04:49:19 PM EST
    the rioters.

    Raise your hand if you doubt he would do it.

    If he does that (none / 0) (#2)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 04:54:25 PM EST
    he may seal his fate in the Senate. How could any of them NOT convict if pardons the rioters?

    I ask this before (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 04:56:27 PM EST
    I was wondering if he did that is there anything at all that could be done.   Courts?  Breaking on The Wheel?

    A mass pardon of all those who fall within (none / 0) (#5)
    by Peter G on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 06:14:06 PM EST
    a category of offenses committed in a certain time period and under certain circumstances is a form of clemency called an "amnesty." There is a long history of them in the U.S. (see in particular under U.S. Grant, and Jimmy Carter). I see no reason to doubt the validity if he does it. I am more concerned that he will lose interest in commuting or pardoning more ordinary federal prisoners, as he had begun doing a month ago, under the guidance of Alice Johnson and others.

    So Trump Could Pardon... (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 06:53:46 PM EST
     ...the entire republican party, how about every person in the US ?  

    Seems like there has to be some sort of limit to the depth and scope of this power.


    Breaking on The Wheel (2.00 / 1) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 06:19:19 PM EST
    No Way Donald Trump Pardons Cop Killers (none / 0) (#4)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 06:01:53 PM EST
    If it weren't for that I would say there is a good chance.

    Back to the embedded video, is it just me or is Donald's 'dance' moves look more like he is the center of attention in a bukaki film, and the song, good gravy, though I had seen it all.


    I seriously think (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 06:17:20 PM EST
    there is absolutely no limit to what he would do.  He has no political future.  Even he knows that.  So there is no reason for him to even act like he gives a shi+ about cops.  Or anyone.

    He is going to be really pi$$ed. He is delusional.  There is no bottom.  He loves revenge  

    That all sounds like hyperbole but it really is not.


    Also (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 06:26:14 PM EST
    there is a shrinking number of things he can do.  They won't give him nukes.  He can't even whine on twitter.  If he really really wanted to fu'k the country, check, and the republicans, check, and show his love and support for his fans, and check, what better way.

    It's the one thing he can still do.  See Peters comment above.


    I Stick By What I Wrote... (none / 0) (#9)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 06:37:42 PM EST
    ...that whole crowd has been telling us for years about how great the police are and how much blue lives matter and how rioters should be locked up for a good long time...

    Trump rips that out and there goes his support and while he might never be a pol, he would rather die then not have a bunch of idiots think he is King Ding-a-Ling.


    Well (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 06:47:11 PM EST
    it would definitely be ill advised.  For many reasons.  But most of the reasons involve some degree of rationality.

    Jus sayin.

    I think it's true it will seal his fate in the senate.  But I've been reading that ship may have already sailed and if I'm reading that so is he.  Or the people who read to him.


    Yeah (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 07:04:25 PM EST
    they have been saying all of that but guess what? Today all but 10 Republicans voted that inciting violence against the police is okay.

    And (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 07:26:57 PM EST
    There are going to be hundreds, maybe hundreds and hundreds, of charges that have nothing to do with the death of the policeman.

    Why would he not pardon them.


    Philly Inquirer (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 07:47:50 PM EST
    I am friendly with Danny, who wrote that op-ed (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Peter G on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 08:29:43 PM EST
    Seems on target to me.

    He's a smart guy (none / 0) (#15)
    by Peter G on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 08:53:37 PM EST
    Got a talking-head gig as a legal commentator, like Jeralyn used to do (with same qualifications: not just smart and well-informed, but quick-witted and articulate, and looks good on camera). He also volunteered a couple of years ago to take court-appointed cases in the U.S. Virgin Islands, even though his office base in the Philadelphia suburbs (like mine). Both of those moves have worked out well for him.

    thank you Peter (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 12:09:36 AM EST
    but I disagree with him, especially this:

    While culpability may vary, ideology among the Trump supporters probably does not: it's a safe bet that the people there were President Trump's most ardent, vocal supporters. It takes a lot of enthusiasm for someone to travel to DC from places like Arizona or Florida just to attend a political rally.

    I think Trump got pawned (owned). The MAGA hats and Trump signs were as much as costume as the guy with devil's horns.

    This was a planned attack by an outside fringe group with ties to law enforcement, pushing for a new world order. To me, it smacks of Steve Bannon, getting back for being indicted and not getting a pardon.

    These are the same cop-aligned folks who showed up in Denver to agitate during the BLM protests. Our local news interviewed on for over 5 minutes. I was really angry they gave him so much air time .But his message was, we are armed, we are trained many of us are former cops ,we have tactical gear and arms and we will fight to keep our streets safe from these protesters.

    There is no way that ordinary rural malcontents carried this out. They were recruited because they are stupid. But the organizers are anything but. They played Trump and his supporters like a fiddle. How did the weapons and equipment and ropes and everything else get in if not placed in advance and staged with the help of a cop?  Why did they go into an unmarked Congressman's office, if not alerted to where it was?

    There is money behind this, and it smacks of groups far more right wing than Trump. I'd start with the hundreds of millions that went through the pass through corporations Jared set up. Check out the payments the Trump campaign submitted that went through American Media Made -- it is simply shocking that so much money can be hidden.

    (Sorry for the typos, it's very hard to see my laptop screen -- too small and not enough light.)


    it's called (none / 0) (#17)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 12:15:59 AM EST
    American Made Media Consultants Corp. and scroll through the unending list of payments.

    Also don't count out Brad Parscale, Trump's former campaign manager and before that head digital marketer, hand picked by Jared and trained by none other than FB who sent people to be embedded with them in 2016. i don't know which side the Mercer family ended up on, and I don't have the time to sleuth it, but any one of you can. Mercer, Bannon, Parscale, follow the money. I won't be suprised if very little is left for Trump by the time the responsible groups (whoever they are) are done fleecing him and Jared.


    Not to Add Fuel to the Fire... (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 08:29:03 AM EST
    ...but the 'squads' panic buttons were, and I am quoting, 'torn out' before the storming of the capital and no one was informed.  

    Repoorted by no less than Fox News.


    "Every panic button in my office had been torn out--the whole unit," she told the newspaper, adding that the team could come up with no rationale as to why. The staffer said that she had used them before and they had not switched offices since then.

    She explained that, because of multiple death threats aimed at Pressley over the past two years, it had become routine for her staffers to run through safety drills. Pressley, as one of four progressive Democratic representatives in "The Squad," has faced racist attacks from Trump supporters.

    I'm not much for conspiracy theories, but low level flunkies don't remove panic buttons from Congressional Offices.


    Even if one assumes this as some totally innocent oversight, how does the department responsible remove ALL the panic buttons from a highly visible member's office and NOT inform that member or their staff?

    Great question.

    We know this was planned (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 08:35:40 AM EST
    And arranged by Trumps biggest supporters.  There were tours of the Capitol given before the riot by congressmen.  We know their names.  There were directed to unmarked offices.

    I think Trump and the organizers are the ones that used the MAGA yahoos to get the others in the capitol


    Yep.. (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 10:28:50 AM EST
    Exhaustive, in-depth, Benghazi-like investigation about this.

    Hard to imagine how a few heads aren't going to roll.


    2 more (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 10:43:46 AM EST
    names have been added to the suspect list Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Greene. I would love for Green to be kicked out of the Georgia delegation if it turns out that she had something to do with all of this.

    Greene has announced (none / 0) (#24)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 11:48:52 AM EST
    she is filing Articles of Impeachment against Joe Biden on Jan. 21.

    Then she's going.to speak (none / 0) (#25)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 11:58:29 AM EST
    in tongues and make like Linda Blair with a crucifix.

    The power of Q compels you!..the power of Q compels you!


    She is (none / 0) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 01:38:55 PM EST
    a Qanon crackpot.

    I have serious doubts (none / 0) (#46)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 12:46:28 PM EST
    that Greene or Boebert complete their terms. I have no proof, just a gut feeling, that both of these nutballs worked in concert with the insurrectionists.

    I will not be surprised, at all, to see them led away in handcuffs one day.


    The lawyer for the QAnon shaman (none / 0) (#34)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 09:24:24 AM EST
    publicly petitioned President Trump on Thursday to pardon his client.


    I doubt Trump will pardon him due to the fact that he doesn't meet Trump's dress code.


    He has a point beyond the two on his head (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 11:24:16 AM EST
    He was only doing what the president told him to do.  It's undeniable.  Seems like a pretty good defense.

    Maybe Trump will pardon them all and take the legal responsibility.  

    It's the one thing he could still do the would shock anyone..  


    The "good German" defense (none / 0) (#50)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 02:30:28 PM EST
    might not help the Qnon shaman but IMO it might be another point against Trump.

    IMO, Trump pardoning the insurgents might incentivize more Republicans to vote in favor of the impeachment.


    I think you are correct (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 02:43:20 PM EST
    I think that at least in part is Mitches message about voting to convict him in the senate.   Behave yourself or we take you Secret Service and your pension.  At least.

    That said (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 02:45:07 PM EST
    that would be my defense.   He invited me.  I came.  He told me to fight.  I did.  

    He is white and a veteran (none / 0) (#55)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 04:16:30 PM EST
    His alleged drug and mental health issues might get him off the hook. Wouldn't work if he was black but then again....

    And that's the one thing... (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 10:33:38 AM EST
    I liked about the guy...think he would loan me the helmet while he's in the can?

    Ya know I always dreamed the day the people stormed the capital it would be for a good reason...so disappointing like everything else in this new decade :(


    Unless he gets his requested pardon, (none / 0) (#38)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 10:43:00 AM EST
    he will not have the opportunity to wear it for several years so you might be able to make a deal. LOL

    It's going to be a right-wing (none / 0) (#57)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 05:00:20 PM EST
    sacred relic in demand at auction the way Zimmerman's murder weapon was.

    I would not (none / 0) (#64)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 10:18:12 PM EST
    doubt it even for one minute.

    A lawyer (none / 0) (#48)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 01:54:46 PM EST
    calling for a pardon for his client is like a surgeon calling for prayer for his patient.

    I cannot think of a pitch *less* likely to (none / 0) (#49)
    by Peter G on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 02:20:32 PM EST
    persuade Tr*mp to grant this guy a pardon than the suggestion that he only did what he understood Tr*mp to have asked him to do ... which is what Tr*mp is now being impeached over. Asking Tr*mp to make what is effectively a criminal admission, in other words. Not good thinking by the lawyer, imho.

    Great Point (none / 0) (#58)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 05:15:21 PM EST
    When I read that I was thinking is this guy's lawyer admitting he committed crimes with the request?  Probably not, but still a very strange way to request a pardon.

    You don't appeal to Trump by taking the same view as democrats.  You ask/beg Trump by stroking his ego with something like:

    We were trying to help Donald Trump take his rightful place as the winner of the 2020 election.  It was our patriotic duty and obligation and we beg the most patriotic person to ever be President for some relief from these egregious charges.  Keep America great by pardoning true patriots.

    It has the advantage of being true (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 05:34:00 PM EST
    What other defense does he have?  

    Maybe the idea is to embarrass Trump.  I'm pretty sure he is not expecting a pardon to be granted.  

    If Trump did that he would be convicted in the Senate.


    Could happen (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 06:56:14 PM EST

    McConnell about to school Trump on political power for the last time

    Surprisingly, getting the votes might not be that difficult. Because Trump simply rages uncontrollably -- without thought or foresight -- at the slightest criticism or disagreement, he has managed to alienate plenty of Republican senators, most of whom have been winning elections in their home states long before Trump barged onto the scene -- and often with much greater margins. Add to that the staggered terms in the Senate, as opposed to the House, and that several senators may be in their last term with nothing to lose, and you have a toxic stew of animus about to be served up to Trump.

    Remove all the Republicans who are up for reelection in 2022 and all those who voted to challenge the Electoral College votes of either Arizona or Pennsylvania and you have 24 potential conviction votes.

    If I Was His Lawyer... (none / 0) (#84)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 09:00:11 AM EST
    ...I'd start with the guy is bananas and show a pic of him, then maybe mention he thinks he is an alien, a higher being, then go on about Qanon and baby eating pedophile rings.

    I would not bite the hand that might potentially feed me.  


    NYC cuts all business ties (none / 0) (#18)
    by desertswine on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 12:26:49 AM EST
    with the Trump Organization.

    NEW YORK (Reuters) - New York City declared on Wednesday that it will cut business ties with the Trump Organization, and at least two companies made similar moves, citing the storming of the U.S. Capitol last week by a crowd that President Donald Trump had egged on.

    Preordination (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 10:00:48 AM EST
    Noun. 1. preordination - (theology) being determined in advance; especially the doctrine (usually associated with Calvin) that God has foreordained every event throughout eternity (including the final salvation of mankind) foreordination, predetermination, predestination.

    "Somehow, it felt like the preordained coda of a presidency that repeatedly pressed all limits and frayed the bonds of the body politic. With less than a week to go, President Trump's term is climaxing in violence and recrimination at a time when the country has fractured deeply and lost a sense of itself. Notions of truth and reality have been atomized. Faith in the system has eroded. Anger is the one common ground."


    The Scorpion & the Frog (none / 0) (#27)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 04:21:28 PM EST
    Trump Refuses to Pay Giuliani

    According to the Washington Post, relations between Trump and Giuliani have dramatically cooled. Trump has instructed his aides not to pay Giuliani's outstanding fees. The president is reportedly offended by Giuliani's demand for $20,000 a day - a figure the lawyer denies, but which is apparently in writing. White House officials have even been told not to put through any of Giuliani's calls.

    I'm no lawyer, but $20,000 a day seems excessive.

    Pardon me while I fall off my chair laughing.

    The rift with the president may sink Guiliani's lingering hopes of receiving a presidential pardon. Last year, Giuliani held discussions with Trump about receiving an amnesty over his work on the president's behalf in Ukraine.

    This too (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 04:36:04 PM EST
    Trump was found (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 09:33:54 PM EST
    to be in very good shape, according to Dr. Bornstein.  All his tests were positive.

    Biden is no longer (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 09:59:01 PM EST
    taking the train to DC.  it never sounded like a good idea to me.

    Yes, that (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 10:53:48 AM EST
    was a worry.  Too many historical parallels for my anxiety levels --the  unsuccessful Baltimore plot to assassinate Lincoln on his train travel from Springfield to his first inauguration.

    Just heard, they (none / 0) (#31)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 12:25:18 AM EST
    I say follow Randy Rainbow's advice (none / 0) (#43)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 11:28:58 AM EST
    George Costanza... (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 08:20:58 AM EST
    Not Really Surprising, But Very Surprising (none / 0) (#33)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 09:01:40 AM EST
    Capitol rioters planned to capture and kill politicians, say prosecutors

    The detention memo, written by justice department lawyers in Arizona, goes into greater detail about the FBI's investigation into Chansley, revealing that he left a note for Pence warning that "it's only a matter of time, justice is coming".

    "Strong evidence, including Chansley's own words and actions at the Capitol, supports that the intent of the Capitol rioters was to capture and assassinate elected officials in the United States government," prosecutors wrote.

    In Chansley's case, prosecutors said the charges "involve active participation in an insurrection attempting to violently overthrow the United States government", and warned that "the insurrection is still in progress" as law enforcement prepares for more demonstrations in Washington and state capitals.

    They also suggested he suffered from drug abuse and mental illness, and told the judge he posed a serious flight risk.

    "Chansley has spoken openly about his belief that he is an alien, a higher being, and he is here on Earth to ascend to another reality," they wrote.

    So why is an alien interfering with a US election... um drugs, drugs are bad, mkay.

    The star of the show has already asked Trump for a mulligan.

    Jacob Chansley -- who is known as the "QAnon shaman" for following the QAnon conspiracy theory and being photographed wearing a fur hat, face paint and holding a spear -- has been charged with unlawful and violent entry of the Capitol building, as well as "active participation in an insurrection" to overthrow the US Government.

    But his lawyer Albert Watkins told CNN Mr Chansley was not a violent person and should be pardoned as he felt "he was answering the call" of Mr Trump by entering the building.

    "My client did not break into the Capitol, my client had the doors of the Capitol held for him by Capitol police," Mr Watkins said, adding Mr Trump invited him to enter the Capitol during his speech prior to the riot.

    Mr Watkins said Mr Trump "needs to be accountable" for encouraging the rioters, "and the only honourable thing for him to do for those who were peace-loving, for those who did go there with peace in mind, who weren't going there to be violent" was to "own" those protesters and pardon them.

    What is wrong with Mike Pence, these guys wanted him hung and they were doing it from orders from Trump and Pence doesn't think Trump should have been removed?  I will never understand republicans.

    Pardon me (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 09:38:20 AM EST
    The lawyer for the "QAnon shaman" who was part of the deadly siege on the Capitol last week publicly petitioned President Trump on Thursday to pardon his client, Politico reports.

    Attorney Albert Watkins told CNN his client, Jacob Chansley, "felt like he was answering the call of our president."

    This is also the guy (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 10:03:57 AM EST
    Who they say intended to take prisoners.

    Also he's complaining about not getting organic food


    He can't still be complaining since a judge ruled (none / 0) (#40)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 11:12:51 AM EST
    If only Muslim prisoners were routinely (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Peter G on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 11:32:57 AM EST
    afforded the same accommodation. I support enforcement of religious rights, but I would like to see him meet any sort of burden of proof that his beliefs are actually "religious" in nature, as the term "religion" is used in the First Amendment (and in the Religious Freedom Restoration Act). I have represented many applicants for Conscientous Objector status (first under the draft, now for discharge from the military) and they have to prove their beliefs are "religious" and not political, sociological or "merely" ethical or philosophical. Whatever that means.

    Seems fair (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 11:18:44 AM EST
    This is Lindsey (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jan 17, 2021 at 11:33:48 AM EST
    speaking to Trump through the tv, I thInk.

    You're the most important figure in the Republican Party. You can shape the direction of the party. Keep your movement alive."

    -- Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), addressing President Trump on Fox News, adding that pardoning rioters "would destroy" him.

    Stroke his ego and then beg him to not do it.  Lindsey would not be saying this on tv if he was not worried about it happening.
    Also it would not just "destroy" him, it would shatter the Republican Party.


    A pardon (none / 0) (#79)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jan 17, 2021 at 12:39:34 PM EST
    of these "insurgents" would basically be an admission of guilt I suppose.

    However the flip side of all this is what you posted above about them being abandoned by Trump.


    OMG! Tr*mp is going to serve two terms. (none / 0) (#45)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 12:22:06 PM EST
    There is PROOF!

    I don't know much about football but I am convinced :-)

    Home Team... (none / 0) (#47)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 01:34:09 PM EST
    ...is always second.  But for a championship game on a neutral field, I believe it's seeding that determines who is assigned home field, which determines things like who wears home/away uniforms.

    The problem with that guy's shtick is that even when Biden takes office, his second term prediction lasts until Trump dies.


    Jenna Ryan (none / 0) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 02:59:03 PM EST
    the real estate agent from Texas has been charged for her part of the insurrection.

    I cannot believe how many (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 03:46:43 PM EST
    of these yuks went home and posted their exploits on Facebook. Even the cops. They make fun of the idiots who break into someone's house then post their booty on Facebook. These people continue to prove the sheer stupidity every day.

    They are probably the same people who post their vacation pictures online, while they are still on vacation. Then are mad their house has been ransacked when they get home.

    Convicting these idiots should be an easy task.


    Here is (none / 0) (#56)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 04:44:45 PM EST
    a current list. The most stupid appears to be Ryan who live-streamed the insurrection and said y'all know who to call to sell your house. I would worry about her even doing a correct contract.

    These insurrectionists (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 06:24:39 PM EST
    come across as rodeo clowns, but I am  beginning to believe they have been inured to the idea that the coup was instituted and protected by Trump. No need to cover their face or obscure their identity.  There was a conscious decision made to let it happen.  No worries.  They thought.

    Call Me an Idiot... (none / 0) (#85)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 09:49:13 AM EST
    ...but I inquire about the pardon before I commit crimes.

    Jenna was on the TV today saying she didn't commit any crimes, but if she did she should be pardoned  because she did what Trump told her to do.  I wish the interviewer would have asked her why she scrubbed her social media posts.

    I believe her, her social media posts indicate that she believed Trump told her to go to Washington and told her to go to the Capital and enter before it go nutz.  But I don't believe she didn't realize that people were committing a lot of crimes, herself included.

    At some level its hard not to feel sorry for people who are so easily lied to, but then I remember how they love to hate and that feeling disappears.


    I am way past (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Zorba on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 11:38:35 AM EST
    Feeling sorry in any way, shape, or form for these people, Scott, as you have said.
    Yes, I agree that they do love to hate.

    It's true (none / 0) (#88)
    by Zorba on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 11:34:44 AM EST
    That they come across as rodeo clowns.
    But these clowns caused people to be killed, trashed the Capitol, and made our legislators fear for their lives.
    They apparently have neither read the Constitution, nor have they studied history.

    Selfie Incrimination (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 02:40:49 PM EST
    Many of these "Rhodes Scholars" wore camouflage costumes in an urban environment believing we would.not see them.  So, they took photos of themselves and posted them.  Yes,  but armed (even with a flag pole) and dangerous.

    Funny (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 07:02:21 PM EST
    Militant Trump supporters shocked to learn QAnon is batshi+ crazy.

    "Online far-right movements are splintering in the wake of last week's Capitol riot, as some radical anti-government movements show signs of disillusionment with the relatively hands-off approach of some QAnon conspiracy theorists amid warnings of future violence," Collins reported. "Users on forums that openly helped coordinate the Jan. 6 riot and called for insurrection, including 4chan and TheDonald, have become increasingly agitated with QAnon supporters, who are largely still in denial that President Donald Trump will no longer be in the Oval Office after Jan. 20."

    "QAnon adherents, who believe Trump is secretly saving the world from a cabal of child-eating Satanists, have identified Inauguration Day as a last stand, and falsely think he will force a 10-day, countrywide blackout that ends in the mass execution of his political enemies and a second Trump term," Collins explained. "According to researchers who study the real-life effects of the QAnon movement, the false belief in a secret plan for Jan. 20 is irking militant pro-Trump and anti-government groups, who believe the magical thinking is counterproductive to future insurrections."

    That magical (none / 0) (#63)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 15, 2021 at 08:36:48 PM EST
    thinking is pretty much the way it is with the Qanon supporters I went to high school with. It's always about things like there is a lot happening that you don't know about. Then when you ask them what exactly they are talking about they don't answer or answer with another statement like "you will see".

    Done with this guy (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 16, 2021 at 03:24:16 PM EST
    As one commenter wrote on Telegram, "So he basically just sold out the patriots who got rounded up for him. Just wow."

    Comments like that flooded sites like "Gab, CloutHub, MeWe, Telegram and far-right message boards such as 8kun," showed a dramatic seachange attitude towards the outgoing president as Cook documented.

    Who believes polls anymore (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 16, 2021 at 03:39:11 PM EST
    But 538 has him as low as he has ever been

    And only that because they include Rasmussen. I don't understand why they do that.  It's consistently 10 points better than anyone else for Trump.

    Most polls he is barely breaking 30%.


    Trump is arranging (none / 0) (#67)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jan 16, 2021 at 04:13:04 PM EST
    a grand departure on Wednesday morning at Andrews Air Force base.  A red carpet, military band, color guard, and 21 gun salute.  A confetti stream of pardons, too--probably.

    He does not want to be seen as a loser like Nixon.  And, a try at diverting the spotlight from the Biden/ Harris inaugural.  


    Trump's good-bye (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 12:40:50 PM EST
    soirée is not going so well.  Pence will not there and rsvps are not coming in.  Maybe Ivanka can bring a red throw rug from home and call it a day.

    McConnell, Kevin McCarthy are going (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 12:53:58 PM EST
    to church with Biden instead. Gotta love it.

    This is going to be (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 12:45:49 PM EST
    the perfect self-own for Trump to exit with.

    Brass band, fly overs fireworks and nobody came.

    It will be the entourage and a couple of locals.


    Lindseybelle is (none / 0) (#122)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 06:42:28 PM EST
    going to the Biden/Harris Inauguration rather than to the gooodbye soirée.  Typical Lindsey, but maybe a sign that Trump will be convicted in the impeachment trial and Lindsey will not have to cower to him for the next four years on the threat of his running in 2024.

    I'm imagining a 21-gun salute (none / 0) (#68)
    by leap on Sat Jan 16, 2021 at 04:28:24 PM EST
    as a firing squad. That works for me.

    Trump should clarify (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by jondee on Sun Jan 17, 2021 at 07:44:42 PM EST
    that he doesn't mean 21 guys with beer guts and AR-15s.

    I'm sure this is scheduled (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 16, 2021 at 05:02:37 PM EST
    before noon.

    I like this.  Lying down 73%


    Online misinformation about election fraud plunged 73 percent after several social media sites suspended President Trump and key allies last week, research firm Zignal Labs has found, underscoring the power of tech companies to limit the falsehoods poisoning public debate when they act aggressively," the Washington Post reports.

    This will be the afternoon (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 16, 2021 at 05:06:15 PM EST
    President-elect Joe Biden, inheriting a collection of crises unlike any in generations, plans to open his administration with dozens of executive directives on top of expansive legislative proposals in a 10-day blitz meant to signal a turning point for a nation reeling from disease, economic turmoil, racial strife and now the aftermath of the assault on the Capitol," the New York Times reports.

    "Mr. Biden's team has developed a raft of decrees that he can issue on his own authority after the inauguration on Wednesday to begin reversing some of President Trump's most hotly disputed policies. Advisers hope the flurry of action, without waiting for Congress, will establish a sense of momentum for the new president even as the Senate puts his predecessor on trial."

    "On his first day in office alone, Mr. Biden intends a flurry of executive orders that will be partly substantive and partly symbolic. They include rescinding the travel ban on several predominantly Muslim countries, rejoining the Paris climate change accord, extending pandemic-related limits on evictions and student loan payments, issuing a mask mandate for federal property and interstate travel and ordering agencies to figure out how to reunite children separated from families after crossing the border."

    Why don't they just so NO. (none / 0) (#71)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Jan 16, 2021 at 05:58:43 PM EST
    What can he do? Fire someone. Joe can just rehire them an hour later.

    Just tell this blowhard to pack his $hit and go.


    They said no (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jan 17, 2021 at 07:07:55 AM EST
    Trump also apparently wants his departure to involve "a military-style sendoff and a crowd of supporters" at either the White House, the Joint Base Andrews or his final destination, the Palm Beach International Airport, according to CNN.

    However, the Pentagon has said it isn't going to happen.



    I wondered the same thing. (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 16, 2021 at 06:42:20 PM EST
    Why is anybody continuing to coddle Trump after the 6th? I mean it is ridiculous. I hope he is using the funds the people gave him for his bogus election fraud campaign.

    Best thing (none / 0) (#73)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jan 16, 2021 at 07:17:00 PM EST
    would be if the news organizations didn't covered it.

    Would be understandable. Actual news (none / 0) (#74)
    by Peter G on Sat Jan 16, 2021 at 07:23:10 PM EST
    will be occurring that day, what with the Inauguration and new executive orders and all. Editors have to exercise judgment about what there are resources to cover.

    Keep hope alive (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 16, 2021 at 09:30:27 PM EST
    Following his meeting with President Trump on Friday, MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell said in a Facebook interview that he's praying that the military presence in Washington for the inauguration is part of Trump's plan to retain power

    Boebert's communications director (none / 0) (#76)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Jan 16, 2021 at 10:30:28 PM EST
    has resigned.Less than 2 weeks on the job. A new "Mooch."

    Former SoD Perry: Get Rid of Nuclear Football (none / 0) (#80)
    by RickyJim on Sun Jan 17, 2021 at 07:06:35 PM EST
    Yes, I am worried about Trump starting WWIII to stay in power.  Here is what William J. Perry says would deter a future Trump from doing it.

    First, once in office, Biden should announce he would share authority to use nuclear weapons with a select group in Congress. He should also declare that the United States will never start a nuclear war and would use the bomb only in retaliation.

    Second, to make that pledge more credible, Biden should retire the land-based ballistic missiles that are stationary and more vulnerable to be taken out in a first strike--which could force a president into a quick "use-them-or-lose-them" decision. These missiles are not needed for deterrence, which is ensured by survivable submarine-based weapons. We can and should get out of the "use-them-or-lose-them" mindset.

    But it won't because sixty years ago today, President Dwight Eisenhower was right and we didn't listen:

    "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

    "We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
    - President Dwight D. Eisenhower, Farewell Address (January 17, 1961)

    And nearly 71 years ago, Sen. Margaret Chase Smith of Maine starkly warned her GOP colleagues, "I don't want to see the Republican Party ride to political victory on the Four Horsemen of Calumny -- Fear, Ignorance, Bigotry, and Smear." She was also right and again, nobody in her party listened. Instead, the Republicans rode those horses and only now, they realize that there's no effective dismount strategy.



    It's Funny That You Think... (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 08:50:28 AM EST
    ...republicans want to dismount.  'Fear, Ignorance, Bigotry, and Smear' is practically the party plank.  

    She forgot victimization.


    Fear, Ignorance, Bigotry and Smear (5.00 / 4) (#86)
    by Peter G on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 11:04:02 AM EST
    better known by their acronym:  FIBS.

    LOL! I never noticed that. (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 10:20:58 PM EST
    I wonder if it was Sen. Chase Smith's intent all along, erudite lawmaker that she was. If it was, then she certainly had to realize that it would sail right over the head of her intended target that day, fellow Republican Sen. Joseph McCarthy.

    ... also worth remembering that swashbuckling U.S. cavalryman Gen. George Armstrong Custer -- who first captured attention at the Battle of Gettysburg during the Civil War when he thwarted Confederate Gen. J.E.B. Stuart's attempt to turn the Union right flank at Rummel Farm -- never lost a battle until, of course, his last one.



    If they don't dismount, they will lose. (none / 0) (#93)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 05:59:24 PM EST
    A lie is a very flimsy foundation for a political movement. The question before many GOP elected officials right now is whether Mt. Trump is the hill they really want to die on.

    Donald who? (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 06:22:59 PM EST

    "As Donald Trump lurches through the disastrous final days of his presidency, Republicans are just beginning to survey the wreckage of his reign. Their party has been gutted, their leader is reviled, and after four years of excusing every presidential affront to `conservative values,' their credibility is shot. How will the GOP recover from the complicity and corruption of the Trump era? To many Republicans, the answer is simple: Pretend it never happened."

    "The plan might seem implausible, but I've heard it floated repeatedly in recent days by Republican strategists who are counting down the minutes of the Trump presidency. The hardcore MAGA crowd will stay loyal, of course, and those few who have consistently opposed Trump will escape with their reputations intact. But for the majority of GOP officials, apparatchiks, and commentators who sacrificed their dignity at the altar of Trump, a collective case of amnesia seems destined to set in the moment he leaves office."


    I think there is probably going to be a lot of "normal" Republican voters who will be just as eager to forget all about Trump.


    So they are going to replace (none / 0) (#96)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 07:04:38 PM EST
    one Big Lie with another Big Lie attempting to gaslight the entire country that Trump never happened or nobody remembers correctly. If that is their strategy the GOP really should just roll over and die and then have another party form from the ashes.

    Exactly. (none / 0) (#98)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 07:36:51 PM EST
    Coming immediately on the heels of the twin losses by Senate incumbents David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler in Georgia and the subsequent disaster of January 6, a considerable number of GOP elected officials are going to break off this increasingly ruinous engagement, because they see their own near-term political survival as likely depending on it.

    Now, I can't speak for Republican voters as a whole because living as long as I have in one of the bluest states of the Union, I simply don't know very many of them anymore outside my own relatives on the mainland. But I think non-Trump voters, and minority voters in particular, are just as unlikely to ever forget that white nationalist insurrection. Its memory will be embedded in their collective consciousness for a long time, probably multi-generational.

    For sure, this new Republican Party has consolidated its hold on the white right, but at the likely overall expense of losing the trust and affinity of most everyone else. Any near-term opportunities for GOP candidates to make inroads with non-white and moderate white voters probably got trampled underfoot two weeks ago, first by Georgia Democratic voters at the ballot box, and then by angry white crackpots in the foyers, halls and chambers of our nation's Capitol building.

    Perhaps the GOP is finally fracturing, and what may emerge as Trump's legacy will be a white people's nationalist party. And in a country of growing multi-ethnic and racial diversity, that's a potential recipe for political marginalization. In any event, it will be very interesting to see ho this all ultimately plays out over the next few years.

    Stay safe, my friend. Aloha.


    I think a lot depends on (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 07:57:42 PM EST
    what happens next.  Who he pardons.  If there are no more explosions in the near future it will go differently than if there is more crazy.

    I kind of expect more crazy.  But either way there is a war coming inside the Republican Party.  The lines are already clearly drawn.  It will come down to who are you with, Mitch and Liz and the federalists or Josh and Louie Gomert and Don Jr and the loonies.

    I heard it described today as scorpions in a bottle.

    I don't see how the party does not split.  But the next few days.....


    Federalists (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 11:23:26 AM EST
    See new Tweets

    Katy Tur
    MCCONNELL on the Senate floor just now: "The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the President and other powerful people, and they tried to use fear and violence to stop a specific proceeding of the first branch of the federal government which they did not like."
    11:14 AM · Jan 19, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

    Is He Tipping... (none / 0) (#107)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 11:45:42 AM EST
     ...his hat ?  
    He can't vote no after that stating the President provoked a mob to use fear and violence to stop a branch of government.

    "......and other (none / 0) (#109)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 12:29:29 PM EST
    powerful people, ...".   Cruz and Hawley to get the boot, too .

    F*#k McConnell. He turned a blind eye to (none / 0) (#115)
    by vml68 on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 02:07:53 PM EST
    all the lies for 4 years. He is just as responsible. It's too late for him to try and distance himself now.

    You expect even MORE crazy? (none / 0) (#101)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 10:11:36 PM EST
    Here you go, courtesy of the Wyoming GOP and Steve Bannon:

    "A top Republican official in Wyoming floated the idea of seceding from the United States after a high-profile member of his party from the Cowboy State embraced the impeachment of President Trump.

    "Wyoming GOP Chairman Frank Eathorne suggested the idea to War Room Pandemic podcast host and former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon in a weekend interview focused on the decision by Wyoming Rep. Liz Cheney, the third-ranked Republican in the House, to vote in favor of impeaching Trump on a charge of incitement of insurrection related to the deadly riot that took place at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

    "'We need to focus on the fundamentals that's been stated in this broadcast, and that is what Wyoming is,' Eathorne stated. 'We are straight-talking, focused on the global scene, but we're also focused at home. Many of these Western states have the ability to be self-reliant, and we're keeping eyes on Texas too and their consideration of possible secession. Now, they have a different state constitution than we do as far as wording, but it is something that we're all paying attention to.'"

    These people are seriously living in Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs territory. It's either that or, as I've suggested earlier, we're all trapped in the Coen Brothers' even more surreal modern-day remake of Fellini's already-surreal Satyricon.



    Let them secede (none / 0) (#105)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 09:24:08 AM EST
    and make it a homeland for the MAGAts. I want them out of my neighborhood, out of my county, out of my adopted commonwealth. Plenty of room up there. Miles and miles of nothingness.

    Yeah, but on one condition: (none / 0) (#120)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 05:45:31 PM EST
    We get to keep Yellowstone, the Grand Tetons and Jackson Hole. They can have the rest of Wyoming.

    I remember overnighting with my cousin in August 1984 at a rather dreary motel along I-80 in Rock Springs, WY with my cousin, while we were on a three-day drive from L.A. to Minneapolis / St. Paul. (She was a flight attendant relocating to her new base in Minnesota, and my mother had basically volunteered me to join her on the semi-cross country jaunt so she wouldn't have to drive alone. I flew back to SoCal afterward.) Well, we hightailed it out of that motel in the wee hours after we heard shots fired in the parking lot, not after the rowdy sh!tkicker bar across the street - I still remember its name: "Wingers" - finally closed.

    In so many respects, the Wild West of Bill Hickock, William Bonney, Belle Starr and Tom Horn continues to live on in the ignorance and stupidity of some of their progeny, like Cliven and Ammon Bundy of southern Nevada.



    Rock Springs, Wyoming (none / 0) (#124)
    by fishcamp on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 08:06:36 PM EST
    is truly a dangerous town.  Lots of oil well people up there fighting and shooting up the place nightly.  We did a mustang horse roundup film there with the author Tom McGuane and the country western singer Tanya Tucker.  At dinner the first night some drunk well drillers recognized Tanya and demanded she get up on stage and sing.  After several polite requests to leave us alone her very large bull rider boyfriend punched two guys so fast nobody else saw it happen, and the joint was packed.  One of the other cameramen was also a very big guy.  Some of the other rowdy guys started over to our table, but couldn't get to us because of the laid out guys on the floor.  The police came in right then and it was over.  So you are correct Donald, Rock Springs is a bad town.

    The Very Notion... (none / 0) (#104)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 09:02:36 AM EST
     ...that they are going to uncork Trump and his supporters is... nuttier than the Qanon shaman.

    They will do what they always do, spin it, and in a decade, Trump will surpass Reagan as the most divine republican to ever walk planet Earth.  Well maybe not that far, but he will be tamed out like GWB has been.

    They will boot some of the more fringe characters, force the lunatics back into their holes, and go with business as usual; as Peter so notably called it, FIBS.

    I remember these same discussion with GWB a the end of his term when we were still grasping with Iraq and the market had crashed and everyone was acting like the republican party was done.  No way they could survive.  Mark my words, one day we are going to look back and miss Trump because the next person is so far off the spectrum that Trump will be viewed with the same banality as GWB is currently, when in fact they were both horrible for the country.   Probably first & second for the worse Presidents ever.

    And while I can't remember the exact number, for the Electoral College, Trump lost by less than 45,000 votes.  Think about that, he wins, there isn't a January 6th and the country continues with Trumpism full steam ahead and only god knows what that maniac had planned.  

    Less than 45,000 people away from that.  Whew... scary.  1 in 3,500 people votes differently and we may have fallen into Fascism.  A handful of judges rule differently, Mike Pence drinks the Kool Aid, Covid never happens, the press runs with the Hunteer Biden slop, a whole host of things that may have changed our history considerably.  

    I think my point is this, we were close and the idea they are going to take a giant history eraser, like the ancient times, and just remove all of it seems very far fetched. Nothing in human history has been more documented than the Trump administration, including the Emperors own thoughts, all 34,000 of them.

    27 hours and counting.


    I was thinking about (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 04:31:24 PM EST
    all the news stories saying some version of how scary it was that the loonies having been booted off all the respectable platforms will just migrate to dark places "where the can't be watched by authorities"

    Excuse me but I would bet there is not a form or method of communications on earth, or at least widely available, where authorities can't hear everything they want to hear.

    I can see why the authorities might tell reporters to say this so the loonies will think they are safe.

    But big brother is watching you.  And them.

    You can't make this up (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 07:05:20 PM EST
    but Vladimir Putin is providing the hosting service for Parler.

    I like the idea (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 08:13:44 PM EST
    of the crazies all disappearing to crazy town and leaving the rest of us in peace

    I might go back to Facebook.   Eventually.  


    You are (none / 0) (#116)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 02:27:34 PM EST
    not the only one I have heard that from. Unfortunately it seems they do both from my experience and even bring Parler garbage onto Facebook.

    I know they do not have the same (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 18, 2021 at 05:10:32 PM EST
    legal surveillance capabilities they do for foreign terrorism but still.  You can't convince me they don't have, and use, the capability extralegally  

    A lot of positive things could come from Trumps romp through norms and customs and The Constitution.   New laws that make that harder for the next Trump.

    But a 9/11 style response to domestic terrorism could sure have bad implications for privacy, civil rights, you name it.    And if more bad stuff happens that's just what we could see.

    A 9/11 style response.


    I mean, 1-6 happened, and we better figure out who was involved and find ways to prevent its recurrence. But what we mustn't do is wallow in an over-emotive and paranoid national pity party, as what happened after 9-11, which left us vulnerable to the disingenuous claims of people like Dick Cheney, who had his own agenda and used 9-11 to his short-term advantage.

    Support for Impeachment grows (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 19, 2021 at 08:52:32 AM EST