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Monday Open Thread: Staying Safe

It is not true that the Coronavirus mostly infects old people.

For example, in Colorado, as of March 29, 2020, 47% of the 2,307 people afflicted with the virus are between the ages of 20 and 50.

According to the projected U.S. Census tables for Colorado, 36% of Coloradans are between the ages of 20 and 44. In 2017, 80% of women bearing children were between 20 and 44. [More...]

You don't have to be a statistician to realize that young children face a non-insignificant risk that one or both of their parents will be infected with the Coronavirus. Some of them will die.

We've been told over and over for the past month how to minimize this risk: Wash your hands and STAY AT HOME.

Update: Here are the latest numbers from CDC on age and mortality. It's true that deaths have mostly been among the elderly. But the number of hospitalizations from other age groups is not insignificant. Why take a chance? Please, let's not unnecessarily add orphaned children to the list of tragic consequences of the coronavirus.

[Thanks to the TL kid and TL granddaughters for letting me use their photos for this post, and to Mrs. TL Kid for taking the photo.]

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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  • I love that photo. (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by leap on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 03:58:38 PM EST
    Makes me smile just looking at it!

    Sweet kids. (none / 0) (#53)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:13:44 PM EST
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Try to practice social distance in your posting.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .


    Parent
    Why? (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Erehwon on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 12:06:53 AM EST
    Folks living in the same household cannot, and need not, practice physical (a far better word than social) distancing!

    Parent
    Disturbing headline... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by jmacWA on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:08:12 AM EST
    but most likely true:

    Trump says Republicans would `never' be elected again if it was easier to vote

    link

    It would (none / 0) (#24)
    by NoSides on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 12:58:36 PM EST
    be interesting if there was a concerted effort to get rid of the electoral college.

    In relatively recent memory, the elections of 2000 and 2016, the presidency was decided by a partisan supreme court, or the electoral college.

    In both cases, in my opinion, the voice of the people was not respected.

    Now and then I read of someone saying something about the electoral college, and then it dies off the pages. And nothing is done.

    So, we don't have much to look forward to.

    Parent

    The Way Candidates are Chosen (none / 0) (#27)
    by RickyJim on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 02:56:24 PM EST
    is at least as bad.  Unrepresentative, hardly democratic procedures force the populace to end up deciding in November between two, often unpalatable choices.  A procedure where elected officials have the first vote, narrowing the field to 10 candidates, say, followed by a couple of runoff elections where the entire country votes, would lead to better, fairer results.

    Parent
    My LTE (5.00 / 8) (#22)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 12:16:54 PM EST
    ...Ran in the local paper. Not related to any other current discussion.

    Editor

    I find it ironic that big shipping companies who register their ships in every country EXCEPT the United States in order to avoid paying taxes here, have asked for federal assistance to offset their recent losses. Why don't they call Liberia or the Bahamas for it, since those are the flags they fly?



    RANT ALERT (none / 0) (#25)
    by ragebot on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 01:07:46 PM EST
    I know I got bashed last time I posted on this topic but I would love to see all the cruise lines go out of business.

    Every year all the big cruise lines are fined millions of dollars for dumping trash and human wastes in the worlds oceans.  When they hit port they all seem to have tour contracts that avoid helping the local economy and instead focus on hiring attractive English speaking guides who are often not from the local country.  In many cases these ships require dredging (read that as destroying the local sea bed) to get to the dock and dump the passengers ashore.

    All in all most of the passengers on cruise ships are examples of the classic Ugly American.

    Parent

    I agree. (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:55:57 PM EST
    So does Maher (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:58:49 PM EST
    Yes. And please keep in mind that ... (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 11:57:26 PM EST
    ... with one notable exception, the S.S. Pride of America (which sails around the Hawaiian Islands), as well as a few riverboats plying the Mississippi River, every single one of those large cruise ships is foreign-flagged to avoid U.S. tax and labor laws. Disney cruise ships are registered in the Bahamas. Celebrity Cruise Lines flies the flags of Liberia or Malta. Carnival Cruise Lines Flies the Panamanian flag. P&O Princess Cruise Lines are flagged in Bermuda.

    They're going to be asking for U.S. bailout money. F*ck 'em.

    Parent

    Disney has been bribing the pols in the Bahamas (none / 0) (#80)
    by ragebot on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 08:28:22 AM EST
    for years.  The law is that a non US flagged ship can't go from one US port to another US port so Disney ships leave South Florida, go to the Bahamas and then return to the same port in South Florida.  Currently Disney owns two exclusive islands in the Bahamas where their cruise ships go.  No one but passengers on the Disney ships are allowed on the islands.

    Parent
    Agree, (none / 0) (#39)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 05:33:48 PM EST
    although have not observed the Ugly American syndrome when living in Key West.  Mostly older exuberant tourists, but unlike as billed, parsimonious---they buy a T-shirt and an ice cream cone and head on back to the ship.  Otherwise, spot on, from my perspective.

    Parent
    They also destroy (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by ragebot on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 06:02:09 PM EST
    We're All on the Cruise Ship Now (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 07:01:54 PM EST
    And (none / 0) (#47)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 07:22:03 PM EST
    Captain Ahab/Bligh/Queeg is at the helm.

    Parent
    The name is (none / 0) (#57)
    by ragebot on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 11:13:01 PM EST
    Baking bread (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Yman on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:48:39 PM EST
    I don't generally bake much, but we can only keep bread fresh for so long and I don't want to go to the store for just bread, soooooo ... Almost No-Knead Bread it is.

    This is a variation of the NYT/Bittner No-Knead bread that was so popular awhile back.  If you have a dutch oven, it's super easy and really good.  I generally make 1.5 times the basic recipe  for a 7 qt. dutch oven, let the second rise happen on a long piece of parchment paper, then lower the whole thing into the hot dutch oven when it'sready.  There are lots of variations out there for whole wheat, sourdough, focaccia, etc.

    I love (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 05:44:27 PM EST
    Cook's Illustrated but love Cook's Country more. Any recipe from either one is pretty much never fail. I did not know there was a no knead bread. I may be needing to keep this in my brain for use at a later time. I do have yeast on hand.

    Parent
    You have yeast?! (none / 0) (#31)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:52:13 PM EST
    The James Beard bread book (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 04:03:08 PM EST
    rocks. We've made a few of the recipes in there and they've all come out great.

    Whats better than a good fresh-baked bread?


    Parent

    My son is a baker. (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 06:05:30 PM EST
    Last night he made corn bread.

    We have some yeast, although most of it is out of date (by several years).

    None of the stores around here have yeast.

    Parent

    I am married (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:10:23 PM EST
    ...To a great baker.

    She made corn bread with blue corn the other night, tonight, Italian fagottini d'albicocca cookies filled with apricot jam tonight.  Clafouti after dinner.

    Making lots of soup. You can't buy chicken broth, but my 99 y.o. mother saves the bones from previous chicken dinners. I boiled them along with carrots, onion and celery, strained it, and it's richer than what you buy.

    Parent

    Is it hard to find, now? (none / 0) (#55)
    by Yman on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 09:11:20 PM EST
    We usually keep some in our freezer - lasts a pretty long time that way.

    Parent
    Definitely (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 04:15:41 PM EST
    Doing this

    Parent
    I am still on the keto diet (none / 0) (#45)
    by ragebot on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 06:08:25 PM EST
    and find this a viable substitute for bread.

    Not to mention it literally takes a couple of minutes to make; 90 second keto bread.

    Down from over 230 when I was diagnosed with DTV to just under 170 now.

    Parent

    Good for you! (none / 0) (#95)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:08:33 AM EST
    It's really a hard diet to stick to, but I agree the foods on it are filling. (meaning the bad keto foods like bacon and hot dogs and cheese and peanut butter).

    Parent
    Not sure they are bad foods as such (none / 0) (#103)
    by ragebot on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    If you read the label on something like bacon it can be an eye opener.  At Walmart for example there are at least a dozen choices of bacon.  First thing to notice is the ones that say water added.  Without exception they all have tons of chemicals added with names I could never pronounce.  Same thing goes for lots of the more expensive ones.  Next thing I look at is if sugar was added (and not just for bacon it is shocking how many foods have sugar added).  There is only one brand of bacon I buy at Walmart and it is easily twice as expensive as other choices; but it does not have any sugar or strange chemicals added.  But truth be told I am now driving about 15 miles from Tallahassee to a soul food butcher shop in Quincy that sell even more expensive bacon that is better tasting and in my opinion better for you health wise.  Problem is I have to call ahead to make sure they have some since it sells out quickly.

    Same thing goes for lots of other foods; as an example hot dogs like Nathans or Hebrew National are way more expensive than the discount brands.  There is nothing wrong with hot dogs per se if they are made with good ingredients; but by the same token if you use strange meat parts and chemicals with long names you can't spell without help you probably should not eat it.

    Cheese is often preserved with chemicals as well.  I have also noticed some cheese has had starch added which boosts the amount of carbs in it.  But again if you buy the more expensive cheese with nothing added to extend the shelf life it is a good food.

    First thing I look at when buying peanut butter (I don't really buy a lot) is how much sugar is added; also look at the carb count.  It is shocking to see how many things like corn syrup (and a host of other tings) are added instead of sugar so the makers can claim no sugar added.  But it always shows up in the carb count.

    Bottom line is that not only does keto food costs a lot more to buy you also need to get up to speed on how to select the right products.

    A lot of critics of keto point out what they call "bad foods" are full of what they call high fat content that can raise cholesterol.  But they don't mention there is bad cholesterol and good cholesterol and if you pick the right high fat foods they will lower your bad cholesterol and increase your good cholesterol.

    The key for me has been finding foods I like to eat that fit into a keto diet.  The biggest problem is how much time, effort, and expense is required to put those foods on the table.  Not only is the shopping more expensive and time consuming but the time required to prepare the food once I buy it is a lot more than popping a TV dinner in the microwave.

    Parent

    Caution re PB. I am addicted. (none / 0) (#109)
    by oculus on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 03:48:27 PM EST
    Took a couple spoonfuls last night. Dessert. Literally almost choked to death. Scary.

    Parent
    Peace to all my new and old TLers (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 06:01:21 PM EST
    Trump continues (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 10:50:10 AM EST
    to put his followers out on a limb only to have him saw it off.  Trump, now for way over two days, according to the hapless media, is "somber" and sports a new "tone".  Monday was the day Trump "became president", apparently supplanting the day  he became president when he shot missiles off into Syria.

    Georgia's Republican Governor, Brian Kemp, is now going to a stay at home, claiming news that asymptomatics may be transmitters was "revelatory", and a course changer.

      The Florida Governor  found his way off the beach, and the Mississippi Governor who in old timey days, like last week, proclaimed his state would "never be China" is now---China. Other lame excuses and lies abound.  Fox and other Trump media are doing pirouettes. However, if Trump decides to declare the all clear signal this afternoon, they surely have their Sunday-go-meet'n Easter clothes ready to go.

    Sh*t cried the King, and 50,000 subjects squatted and strained to their utmost, for the word of the King was law.

    Corona victim - Jazz great Ellis Marsalis, 85.. (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by desertswine on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 03:22:16 PM EST
    father of Wynton and Branford Marsalis.

    Branford said in a statement: "My dad was a giant of a musician and teacher, but an even greater father. He poured everything he had into making us the best of what we could be. My friend and Harvard Law professor David Wilkins just sent me the following text: `We can all marvel at the sheer audacity of a man who believed he could teach his black boys to be excellent in a world that denied that very possibility, and then watch them go on to redefine what excellence means for all time.'"


    Bill Withers... (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by desertswine on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 01:30:42 PM EST
    A wonderful singer (none / 0) (#112)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 06:46:43 PM EST
    and by all accounts, a great down-to-earth
    guy.

    From Slab Fork, WV.

    I remember seeing him on Tavis Smiley and thinking this is a guy I'd want in my lifeboat.

    Parent

    Welll, except (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Towanda on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 02:34:48 AM EST
    for being a wifebeater.

    There was a reason she was gone and inspired a great song.

    Parent

    That's the song our middle daughter picked (none / 0) (#116)
    by Peter G on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:33:08 PM EST
    for our father-daughter dance at her wedding. Sad news.

    Parent
    There is so much Warren Zevon that is apropos to (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 12:28:04 AM EST
    today.

    Don't let us get sick
    Don't let us get old
    Don't let us get stupid, all right?
    Just make us be brave
    And make us play nice
    And let us be together tonight

    My Ride's Here
    Disorder in the House
    Keep Me in Your Heart
    Life 'll  Kill You
    Splendid Isolation

    I do so miss Warren.

    I don't think (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 02:23:10 PM EST
    it's that it doesn't affect young people. The thought is that young people don't die from coronavirus.

    The permanent lung damage (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 09:24:07 PM EST
    does give one pause.....and for a young person to have permanently damaged lungs....

    Parent
    That appears to be (none / 0) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 06:06:21 AM EST
    debatable. No one is really sure that the lung damage lasts in all patients from what I have read. Certainly there is short term.

    Parent
    Unless they have (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 02:46:23 PM EST
    pre-existing health conditions, see this ABC news article from yesterday.

    Parent
    The number of deaths so far (none / 0) (#3)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 02:50:34 PM EST
    is small, but here's a graph from CDC showing hospitalizations by age from the virus

    Parent
    That is really helpful info (none / 0) (#11)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 09:29:39 PM EST
    That graph really summarizes the key information--hospital admissions, ICU admissions, and deaths....

    Positive test results do not tell us all that much because it would include asymptomatic people and is dependent on the level of testing.  Counting those in hospital beds is where it gets real and is not open to a lot of subjective interpretation.

    Parent

    The infant in Chicago (none / 0) (#48)
    by Towanda on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:02:00 PM EST
    who had covid-19  and died is reported to have had no health conditions.

    The four-year-old girl in Milwaukee who died due to covid-19 is reported to have had no health conditions.

    I wonder if the virus is morphing. Or if the Chinese, whose problematic reporting in other ways  led to the thinking that  only the elderly died of covid-19, also misreported on this.

    Parent

    I actually (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:06:06 PM EST
    wondered why they were reporting about how it didn't affect children at first especially since children are more susceptible to this kind of thing than many adults.

    And yet here in GA we have great resistance still to doing anything. Mainly because it hasn't killed enough people yet it seems.

    Parent

    The Young Have Died (none / 0) (#94)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:05:10 AM EST
    Via CNN: Healthy 30 year old dies from Virus

    Ben Luderer, a 30-year-old New Jersey teacher and coach, passed away only days after contracting coronavirus. Brandy Luderer, his wife, shares the heartbreaking details with CNN's Alisyn Camerota.

    Parent

    About 30% of all patients hospitalized ... (none / 0) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:14:08 PM EST
    ... with COVID-19 infections are between the ages of 20 and 55. In Italy, at least 15% of those hospitalized in intensive care units (ICU) with COVID-19 have been between 13 and 49 years old. Over on Maui, there's a 17-year-old boy, a high school all-star basketball player, who's presently in ICU with COVID-19. Personally, I believe that an individual's respective body chemistry, rather than one's age and physical condition, may likely be a primary determinative factor in how he or she fares with the viral infection.

    The vast majority of people who are diagnosed with COVID-19 infection will fully recover. Statistics show that 80% of all cases are mild. More than a few people will be asymptomatic and will hardly even feel ill. But for about 15-20% of those infected (who may or may not have an underlying condition), the bout will be serious enough to require medical treatment and perhaps even hospitalization. For 3%, it will become a life-threatening ordeal involving possible respiratory failure, septic shock, or multiple organ failure.

    The potential stakes are simply too high to take uncalculated risks for exposure. So if you have to go out for whatever reason, please take all due precautions such as wearing a mask. Remember, the life you save may not necessarily be your own.

    Aloha a mālama pono.

    Parent

    We've still a way to go... (none / 0) (#4)
    by desertswine on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 03:23:12 PM EST
    for the worst yet to come.  The peak day for the US is projected to be April 15.
    For New Mexico its April 30.
    For Colorado it looks like April 17.
    According to this site.

    April 24th (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 04:14:34 PM EST
    here in GA. NY and MI are hitting peak next week. NY may even be this week.

    Parent
    the orange clown (none / 0) (#5)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 03:34:52 PM EST
    is already doing an end zone dance at his success at only having 100,000 to 200,000 dead Americans.

    This is a big deal (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 07:17:31 PM EST
    I hope it's not delayed again because of this crisis or the next.  Or the next.

    It's been delayed and delayed.  Mostly Trump nonsense like the Space Farce

    In Exactly A Year Our Knowledge Of The Cosmos Will Change Forever. This Is The $10 Billion Reason

    In precisely one year--on Tuesday, March 30, 2021--the almost US$10 billion James Webb Space Telescope (JWST or "Webb" for short) will launch on a European Ariane 5 rocket from the Guiana Space Centre to the northwest of Kourou in French Guiana.

    Will COVID-19 delay the launch of Webb?
    It's highly possible. Originally conceived in the 1990s and at first expected to launch in 2007, Webb has been beset by delays--the latest being COVID-19--but at the time of writing the massive telescope was safely in its cleanroom at Northrop Grumman in Redondo Beach, California, and March 30, 2021, was still the target date for Webb's launch. However, there could be an announcement on April 15, 2020 about a new schedule.



    Space Farce (none / 0) (#12)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 09:34:19 PM EST
    Uhmm, not really a typo at all.....

    Parent
    Not a typo (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 09:03:00 AM EST
    For once

    Parent
    Remember this? (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 08:34:38 PM EST
    Those blue eyes (none / 0) (#13)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 09:35:31 PM EST
    really stand out.....

    Our case numbers in Hawaii have escalated ... (none / 0) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 02:18:48 AM EST
    ... from 26 to 204 in a week's time, with 55 determined to be recovered. The overwhelming number of new cases are on Oahu; here on the Big Island we've had 15 diagnoses thus far, including three today. Our surge in new cases diagnosed is expected to peak in either late April or early May.

    Hang in there, everyone.

    UPDATE: We've passed a sad milestone. (none / 0) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 05:41:53 PM EST
    The very first victim to be diagnosed with the COVID-19 coronavirus in Hawaii back on March 6 was a 76-year-old man who had just returned to Honolulu from a trip to Seattle to visit relatives. Today, he finally passed away from COVID-related complications.

    Parent
    Power corrupts... (none / 0) (#16)
    by NoSides on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 07:43:10 AM EST
    Edward Snowden was quoted today as saying, ""The emergency tends to be expanded. Then the authorities become comfortable with some new power. They start to like it."

    The government has been manifestly incompetent in preparing for this pandemic.

    Still no masks.
    Still a shortage of tests - except it seems for the well-connected.
    Hospital workers in NYC wearing garbage bags because of a shortage of hospital gowns.

    But what is for sure is that the government, and governments around the world, have managed to affect each of our lives. We cannot leave our homes. Some here in the land of the free threaten jail time if people venture out.

    As Snowden says, the people in power, once they are granted even more power, start to like it.

    I have yet to see politicians willingly give up power once they have been given it - or taken it on the pretext of an emergency.

    The "patriot act" is an example.
    It will never go away.
    It isn't even a subject for discussion anymore.
    They rubber-stamp its' prolongation.

    And anytime they like, in fear of whatever they say, they can make us stay home, pay anything, do anything... And they're not about to give that up.

    Welcome to "1984" - 2020 style.

    Go out (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:00:01 AM EST
    Shake some hands.

    That'll show um.  

    Parent

    So far, (none / 0) (#23)
    by NoSides on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 12:51:29 PM EST
    the government has offered us the advice to stay home. That's about all they have to say.

    If we want a test to see if we are infected, there is little or no information about how to get one.

    In Germany, the rates of fatalities is comparatively very low. That is attributed to the use of widely available tests.

    Why is that not common in the US or France, or Spain, or Italy?

    What in the world is going on?

    The only people who we hear about getting tested are the rich and famous - or politicians.

    We need tests.

    Parent

    ... can be attributed to a rigorous testing policy which has been in place for five weeks now. The reason why that country's reported number of fatalities is accelerating is because public health authorities have been re-examining prior deaths in retirement homes and skilled nursing facilities and re-listing the cause as COVID infection.

    Yes, we need more rigorous testing nationwide. What we're getting instead are presidential promos for MyPillow.com.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I was thinking about the horrific death toll (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Towanda on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:09:08 PM EST
    of the flu pandemic a century ago. The death toll was extrapolated by comparing the death rate in those years to the average number of deaths in each country in previous years.

    I think that, owing to the criminal lack of tests today, we will see that extrapolation done a few years from now and find that the death toll in this pandemic is far higher than even the horrific numbers we see now . . . and will continue to see soon.


    Parent

    This is our president (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 09:10:29 AM EST
    President Trump hasn't spoken to Speaker Nancy Pelosi in more than five months but he tweeted he did watch her on MSNBC this morning.

    Said Trump: "I watched a portion of low rated (very) Morning Psycho (Joe) this Morning in order to see what Nancy Pelosi had to say, & what moves she was planning to further hurt our Country. Actually, other than her usual complaining that I'm a terrible person, she wasn't bad. Still praying!"

    During the interview, Pelosi said she now just talks to Trump through the TV -- and she was right.

    I watched too.  She was a breath of fresh air.  

    Flummoxed by his last sentence. (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:48:16 PM EST
    He was making fun (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:51:53 PM EST
    Of the fact she said she was praying for him.  He said once before he did not believe she was praying for him.

    So

    Still praying!

    Parent

    Larry Sabato Crystal Ball on Virtual Conventions (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 09:13:54 AM EST
    Sad. Milwaukee was so excited (none / 0) (#52)
    by Towanda on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:12:03 PM EST
    about winning the competition tombe the site of the convention,

    On the other hand, I am not crazy about 50,000 people from elsewhere coming to cough and sneeze and shed virus in my city.

    Parent

    No mail (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:53:49 PM EST
    Maybe I'm old fashioned but letting the mail stop running in an election year seems, I don't know, bad.

    Postal Service Could Shut Down by June

    March 31, 2020 at 2:09 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 225 Comments

    Fortune: "With a negative net worth of $65 billion and an additional $140 billion in unfunded liabilities, the USPS originally expected to run out of liquidity by 2021 without intervention. That has accelerated rapidly because of COVID-19. Fewer people and businesses are sending mail because of the outbreak, which could hasten the decline of the Postal Service and close its doors as early as June."



    Agreed, bad. (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 04:56:31 PM EST
    The USPS is subject to changes occurring and contemplated--less first class mail and more parcel deliveries.

    However, the funding issues are more about the Congressional mandate to prefund long-term pensions and health care liabilities. Mandating 100 percent prefunding of future liabilities that are based on frequently changing and uncertain assumptions places the USPS in a position not encountered as a quasi-governmental or governmental agency, or, even, the private sector. The prefunding includes people who have not even started work. The USPS does not run on US taxpayer dollars, although it receives benefits by not paying federal taxes---similar to that of non-profits.

    Cynics argue that the prefunding burden gives an advantage to UPS and FedEx. Or, promotes full privatization or a sell off.  

    Parent

    the Post Office (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by leap on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 05:12:46 PM EST
    is written into our Constitution. For what's that worth. Not much, these days.

    Parent
    Feeding my (none / 0) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 05:46:10 PM EST
    family 3 meals a day is getting expensive. I'm used to a husband that travels for work and a high schooler that eats at school and at work.

    It's not the expense but the time consumption (none / 0) (#56)
    by vml68 on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 10:55:36 PM EST
    that I've been grumbling about. I'm also used to a husband that travels every week for work. I don't think I've ever made three meals a day for more than two days in a row before this.

    Worse still, I'm a night owl and my dogs were happy to keep my hours, now, they are up at the crack of dawn raring to go because my husband is an early bird. Lack of sleep is making me grumpy!

    Parent

    Definitely an (none / 0) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 06:55:12 AM EST
    adjustment here having everybody in the house all the time though they fix their own breakfast and lunch. The only thing I cook is dinner.

    Parent
    Nice quote (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:56:50 PM EST
    from evolutionary biologist Bret Weinstein:

    "The fact that we are putting safety over
     productivity is actually the best
     feature of our humanity struggling to
     emerge aagainst our basest evolutionary
     instincts."

    Almost 4500 gone (none / 0) (#59)
    by desertswine on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 12:18:15 PM EST
    in the US this am.  5 deaths in NM so far.

    I started reading about NM (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by jondee on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 01:33:56 PM EST
    yesterday and somehow got caught up reading about a couple who both got the bubonic plague of all things while hiking in northern NM.

    Next thing I know I'm down the rabbit hole and reading about the 14th century Black Death, plague ships, and the excavation of medieval cemetaries in England. From the examination of skeletons, they've determined that people who survived the plague lived much longer than the average person lived before plague swept through Europe.

    Parent

    I have the same pattern (none / 0) (#97)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:20:14 AM EST
    I read a story about bats and coronavirus and ended up reading medical articles about how bats transfer virus cells to Malaysian pangolins who likely give them to humans. Pangolins are the most sought after animals. and there is a real danger they will become extinct. Six of their 7 genomes match the corona virus. These scientists don't believe that bats can transer to humans, only to a host animal like the pangolin which then transfers to humans.

    Also reading about how people view these bat caves with millions of bats inside as hallowed places that should be designated historic monuments so the bats will still be there. They don't mind leaving the cave with nasty bat droppings all over them. Really bizaree.

    Many of the medical journal articles are fascinating, nothwithstanding the terms I don't understand. Lancelot has a lot of links to them and many are free to read.

    They say the virus first surfaced in November (not December) but was either purposely hid or nobody knew what it was.

    Parent

    Just returned from Walmart (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 12:53:54 PM EST
    I don't know if it was Trumps little come to Jesus speech last night or those numbers or what but the atmosphere has definitely changed to the next level.

    It was packed.  They were running out of a lot of things.  That's not been so.  Also, almost everyone was wearing gloves and as many as half had masks.  Home made or otherwise.  A couple of day ago I was one of two or three people in gloves.

    They seem to have gotten the message.

    I guess that's good.

    I got the literal last package of TP.  Actually needed it.    It was one of those giant Brady Bunch size packs so I probably have enough TP for the rest of my natural life.

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#61)
    by FlJoe on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 01:01:30 PM EST
    made a run to Walmart yesterday during "Senior hour" at 6 am. Fairly calm and not crowded but stupidly they were still stocking the shelves on many of the aisles so maintaining social distancing was difficult.

    First thing in the morning and they still had no TP.

    Parent

    It was actually still in the box (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 01:06:14 PM EST
    Still on the floor.

    He had just opened it.  People started grabbing them.

    Right place right time.

    Parent

    I was in Walmart during the old folks hours (none / 0) (#63)
    by ragebot on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 01:27:25 PM EST
    Left the house at zero dark thirty and got there to be one of the first inside.  Maybe 50 peeps in the whole store.  Plenty of TP but also lots of empty shelves for some things; but nothing I really buy.  Also picked up a couple of nice steaks.

    This is my second trip at 6:00AM.  Both time were very similar.  Biggest difference is that all the employees seemed to have been told by the boss to be very polite and to ask the old guys if they needed any help with anything.  I have also gone in twice much later in the day because they don't seem to put out the meat till later on.  Much more crowded and never seems to be any TP after lunch.

    As an aside DeSantis just ordered a statewide shutdown.

    Parent

    I haven't been in a Walmart.. (none / 0) (#65)
    by desertswine on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 03:18:39 PM EST
    since this thing started.  I just figured that there would be too many people there to be safe.  But I guess nowhere out of the house is really safe.  This is the new America I guess.  

    Parent
    Walmart (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 03:51:45 PM EST
    Is testing employees for fever before they go to work.  Officially.  And sending them home with pay if they have one

    It is probably as safe as anywhere right now.  Definitely around here

    Parent

    Also (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 03:53:08 PM EST
    It was packed but everyone was taking personal space very seriously.

    Parent
    I go to my local grocery store (none / 0) (#96)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:14:05 AM EST
    big chain but only sells food. They have wipes out for the you so you can clean the cart handles. and they have staff cleaning all the shelves with spray bottles and paper towels. They come over the PA and say "Time for X department to clean aisle 4". I go at noon and they have toilet paper and everything but eggs and rubbing alcohol and hand sanitizer and disinfectants. They even had thermometers this week.
    But at 5:00 I had to go pick up a prescription at their sister store 1 mile away, and the shelves were just bare. Scary how bare they were.

    Parent
    Successful delivery to my (none / 0) (#110)
    by oculus on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 03:50:55 PM EST
    front door step:  Schwan's. And Northwest Wild Foods (salmon on dry ice).

    Parent
    Come to Jesus (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 04:08:00 PM EST
    Why Trump Changed Tack on the Pandemic

    April 1, 2020 at 4:00 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 133 Comments

    Gabriel Sherman reports that President Trump only shifted his tone as the coronavirus virus spread to "Trump country."



    Parent
    You all (none / 0) (#71)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 06:54:24 PM EST
    must be about 2-3 weeks behind us. I saw all of that a few weeks ago right after the crazy speech or press conference. Thankfully we are now getting restocked though today stores were still scant on cleaning products for the most part.

    Parent
    Does this mean (none / 0) (#70)
    by KeysDan on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 04:39:38 PM EST
    the Churches will not be packed on Easter?  Maybe, just the Church graveyards.

    Parent
    Ghost Cities (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 04:15:07 PM EST
    Jesus (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 07:19:17 PM EST
    Which is creepier?

    Anthony Fauci's Security Stepped Up

    April 1, 2020 at 8:16 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 2 Comments

    "Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious-diseases expert and the face of the U.S. response to the novel coronavirus pandemic, is facing growing threats to his personal safety, prompting the government to step up his security," the Washington Post reports.

    "The concerns include threats as well as unwelcome communications from fervent admirers."



    Talk about creepy... (none / 0) (#76)
    by desertswine on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 09:57:14 PM EST
    Scamvangelist cures coronav.   I don't know what we were worried about now.

    Parent
    When (none / 0) (#73)
    by ragebot on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 09:05:06 PM EST
    It's a good thing (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 02:53:11 PM EST
    ...that a guy like that wasn't given a position of authority.

    Parent
    Captain Ahab (none / 0) (#87)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 03:50:14 PM EST
    going down with the locomotive.

    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 09:57:13 PM EST
    I think this is going to spread.  The crazy.  The worse things get.

    It's being driven by people like the most recent Medal of Freedom recipient.

    The interesting thing will be how Trump deals with it.  How much is he willing to do and to who to try to keep enough of his voters alive to have a chance of winning.

    Parent

    He said he did it (none / 0) (#77)
    by jondee on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 10:12:47 PM EST
    to wake people up to what's going

    Pure looney tunes, QAnon, 'big government takeover' stuff.

    Parent

    to what's going on (none / 0) (#78)
    by jondee on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 10:35:08 PM EST
    Carnival Row (none / 0) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 09:51:33 PM EST
    Other fans?  I'm really liking it.  The production is close to perfect.  I love some of the ideas. Great cast.  I'm a big Alice Krige fan.  

    I love the stuff about The Martyr.

    Which is a religious figure who is represented by very lifelike replicas of a man hanging from a noose.  You see them everywhere.  Which seems horrible until you realize we have very lifelike representations of a man nailed to a cross every where you look.

    I like it.  New season in Oct supposedly.

    More crazy news (none / 0) (#81)
    by ragebot on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 08:39:54 AM EST
    Again unexplained crazy stuff.

    A Venezuelan Navy ship tried to detain a small but tough cruise ship and after the Venezuelan Navy ship rammed the cruise ship several times it sustained enough damage that the navy ship sank.

    Seems the cruise ship had been designed as an ice breaker and was tougher than the Venezuelan Navy ship thought it was.

    In other news (none / 0) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    A couple days ago a Venezuelan Naval vessel sank itself while trying to hijack a German cruise ship (flagged in Portugal) in International waters. Shots were fired by the Venezuelans.

    When the cruise ship refused to follow the Venezuelan orders, the Venezuelan Naval ship rammed the cruise ship repeatedly.

    Little did the Venezuelans know that the cruise ship was built with a reinforced hull for ice-breaking. The Venezuelan Naval vessel took on water and sank. The cruise ship was barely scratched.

    Pretty embarassing, but not a tragedy, (none / 0) (#84)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 01:08:50 PM EST
    as no one was injured nor killed.

    Parent
    In one notorious and tragic incident during the Second World War, the RMS Queen Mary - the same ship that's permanently docked in Long Beach, CA - collided with the Royal Navy light cruiser HMS Curacoa while the two vessels were on convoy duty in German submarine-infested waters north of Ireland on the morning of October 2, 1942, with the Queen Mary ferrying 10,000+ troops of the U.S. 29th Infantry Division to Glasgow, Scotland for eventual deployment in southern England.

    The Curacoa had inadvertently found itself directly in the path of the Queen Mary while the liner was actively performing a zig-zag maneuver to avoid enemy submarines. Both ship's crews had each other's vessel in clear sight, but each ship's captain believed he had right of way and expected the other to yield.

    Actually, the word "collided" is an understatement. Because as a result of each captain's respective misunderstanding of the other's intention, the much larger and heavier Queen Mary struck Curacoa amidships at full speed (28 knots) and sliced the warship cleanly in two - "like a piece of butter," according to one eyewitness.

    The aft end of the Curacoa immediately sank, but the fore end remained afloat for a few short minutes. Amazingly, most of the warship's 440-man crew somehow survived the collision. Meanwhile, the Queen Mary suffered minimal damage to its bow and sailed on to Glasgow unimpeded without stopping to rescue Curacoa's crew, per its orders from the Admiralty in London.

    Although the Queen Mary had repeatedly and urgently radioed distress calls to report the collision, it took other Royal Navy vessels operating nearby hours to respond. 101 men were ultimately rescued. Many of the Curacoa's 339 fatalities succumbed to hypothermia due to prolonged exposure in the frigid waters of the north Atlantic.

    In an official inquiry held in UK's Admiralty Court in July 1945, a maritime judge initially determined that the Queen Mary had sufficient time to alter its own course prior to the collision but had subsequently failed to do so, and admonished the liner's captain, Commodore Sir Cyril Gordon Illingworth, for negligence. However, a senior judge from the High Court of Justice later assigned the commander of the Curacoa, Captain John Wilfred Boutwood, the majority of blame for the disaster.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Maritime law (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by ragebot on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 01:04:21 PM EST
    is different than the law used on dirt.

    While guilty or not guilty are the two verdicts in a trial on dirt (called a discrete decision) maritime law uses what is called a continuous decision where a percentage of the guilt/blame is assigned to each party.  Since all vessels are suppose to maintain a proper lookout all vessels are partially responsible for anything that happens.  But some vessels are more responsible than other and get assigned a larger percentage of the blame.

    Parent

    I guess (none / 0) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 05:34:24 PM EST
    I an laugh then. This really is pretty funny since nobody got hurt only that idiots sunk their own boat.

    Parent
    Sanity from San Francisco (none / 0) (#88)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 03:55:10 PM EST
    What about people not (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 03:58:53 PM EST
    wearing freshly-laundered clothing at all times?

    They need some Larry David outfit-trackers there.

    And wtf does "virtue signaling" mean?

    Parent

    Actually I know what it means (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 04:03:44 PM EST
    it's right-wingese for moralizing that has nothing to do with guns, abortion, and gays.

    Parent
    Wingnut welfare (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 05:33:43 PM EST
    has it's own language. I had to tell someone on Facebook that I didn't speak Breitbart.

    Parent
    The ban. (none / 0) (#98)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 08:44:42 AM EST
    Showed just how virtuous the banners were. What could be more virtuous than "saving the planet (tm)"

    Parent
    The ban (5.00 / 4) (#101)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 09:50:54 AM EST
    ... mitigated the pollution of our planet.  It has nothing to do with demonstrating virtue, but with facts and science.  I remember when conservatives used to at least pretend to be concerned with conservation and polluting, but I guess they now get more enjoyment from making false, hypocritical accusations of "virtue signalling".

    Not surprising at all.

    Parent

    Yep. Gotta own those libs. (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 10:18:55 AM EST
    Even, as the folks at Fox News are discovering with COVID-19, at the potential cost in lives to their own loyal audience.

    Parent
    "Virtue signaling" - heh (5.00 / 6) (#91)
    by Yman on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 04:22:12 PM EST
    Is that what they call a desire to reduce pollution, now?

    Heh.

    I thought it was when someone pretends to be morally superior over an issue that's either: 1) not important or 2) laughably hypocritical.  Like when wingers lose their $hit over someone respectfully protesting while the national anthem is played.  Or while they loudly proclaim their religious faith while cheating on their spouse, watching pron, cheating their business associates and lying on their taxes.  Or maybe when they laud the importance of sacrifice and military service as they get their doctor/podiatrist to given them a note.  Or fill their FB feed with "pro life" memes while they whine about tax money being used to feed the poor and applauding children being separated from their parents.

    "Virtue signaling".

    Heh.

    Parent

    Yeah. (none / 0) (#99)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 08:48:42 AM EST
    That it helps disease to spread is is a cost well worth paying seems to be your point.

    Parent
    "Seems to be"? (5.00 / 5) (#100)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 09:47:00 AM EST
    Heh.

    Always a tell-tale signal that a winger is going to distort your words to make up a strawman argument.

    My actual point is that wingers love to call important measures "virtue signaling" simply because they disagree with them, while they hypocritically perform their own virtue signaling on unimportant issues.  With respect to single use plastic bags, banning their use and substituting reusable bags prevents millions of pounds of plastic pollution every year.  During a pandemic, however, they rightly recognized that such a ban could spread the virus and should be lifted.  That's called logical, smart governance.  I get that wingers have trouble dealing with that concept, especially with this administration - but it's not rocket science.

    Parent

    You can wash a reusable (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 02:52:01 PM EST
    shopping bag as easily as you can wash anything else.

    You're letting your mind be infected by the COVID-19 of wingnut memes without thinking them through, Abdul.

    Parent

    3M faces pressure from Trump order (none / 0) (#102)
    by Natal on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 11:23:27 AM EST
    to stop exporting N95 masks to Canada.

    Here's some of Trudeau's response:

    trade goes in both directions...there are thousand of nurses in Windsor, who work in Detroit everyday, Americans depend on them...it would be a mistake for both of our countries to limit access to goods and essential personnel,"

    Here's 3M's response:

    "Ceasing all export of respirators produced in the United States would likely cause other countries to retaliate and do the same, as some have already done. If that were to occur, the net number of respirators being made available to the United States would actually decrease. That is the opposite of what we and the administration, on behalf of the American people, both seek."

    It looks like Canada will no longer be the closest Ally.

    Not sure what to make of this (none / 0) (#104)
    by ragebot on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 01:00:19 PM EST
    I (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by FlJoe on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 03:09:01 PM EST
    Don't see them doing "just fine" According to K Drum they are still on Italy's path.

    Parent
    Not buying it (none / 0) (#153)
    by ragebot on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 05:18:29 PM EST
    according to your link every country is on Italy's path.  The latest news from Sweden is that they are still not close to Italy's numbers.

    Time will tell but so far Sweden seems to be on the good side of a flat curve.

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#166)
    by FlJoe on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 08:36:15 PM EST
    don't know what you are looking at but Canada,US, Germany and Swtzerland are all well under the curve.

    Even the Swedes are seeing the light

    Sweden's government is drawing up new legislation to allow it to take "extraordinary steps" to combat Covid-19, local media have reported, amid concern that its relatively soft approach may be leading to a higher death rate than in other Nordic countries.

    They are definitely not on a flat curve

    On Sunday Sweden reported a total of 401 deaths so far from Covid-19, up 8% from Saturday and greater than the totals of its three Nordic neighbours combined. Sweden's toll per million inhabitants is 37, compared with 28 in Denmark, 12 in Norway and 4.5 in Finland.
    the number of deaths has almost doubled twice in the past 6 or 7 days.

    Parent
    I applied for the Paycheck Protection Program (none / 0) (#106)
    by McBain on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 02:15:04 PM EST
    this morning.  I wasn't expecting my bank to be ready but they had the online app up and running.  Not sure how long it will take to be approved or if I'll have to submit more info.  Lot's of questions but so far so good.

    Anyone else apply for this or a disaster loan?  

    Sen. Brian Schatz (D-HI) has posted ... (none / 0) (#114)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:23:13 PM EST
    ... some useful information about the SBA Paycheck Protection Program. So if anyone here is a small business owner, self-employed or an independent contractor, it's definitely worth a look.

    Parent
    I am ready to apply. It took almost two hours (none / 0) (#115)
    by Peter G on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:31:09 PM EST
    this morning to do the accounting math. But worth it. Honestly, for a small office like mine (me - the "sole proprietor" - and three employees) the PPP is basically a $50G no cost grant from the feds, on condition I don't lay off my employees for the next six months or something, which I have resisted doing so far anyway.

    Parent
    I have (none / 0) (#117)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:59:27 PM EST
    been watching all these homesteading videos on You Tube. I have learned how to make bread the easy way. I guess this is a side effect of the quarantine.  

    Have you seen this guy? (none / 0) (#121)
    by Yman on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 09:50:49 AM EST
    Built a beautiful, off-grid, log cabin in the Canadian woods, including a sauna.  Unusual format in that he does very little narrating during his videos, but he's pretty popular (1.3 million subscribers).

    My Self Reliance.

    Parent

    Talk (none / 0) (#136)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 07:38:25 PM EST
    about really homesteading. LOL.

    Parent
    Under cover of (none / 0) (#118)
    by KeysDan on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 10:31:43 PM EST
    the pandemic, Trump fired Intelligence Community Inspector General Atkinson.  Mr. Atkinson forwarded, in accord with law, the Ukraine extortion whistleblower complaint to the House Intel Committee leading to Trump's impeachment.

    Where is Joe Biden? (none / 0) (#123)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 10:15:03 AM EST
    Democratic leadership has been deafening silent save for Andrew Cuomo.

    He was on NBC's Meet the Press last Sunday. He spoke to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel yesterday, and Long Island's Newsday the day before. He also appeared in a 13-minute segment on NBC's The Tonight Show on Wednesday, interviewed by Jimmy Fallon. Perhaps a better question to ask might be where YOU have been.

    Parent
    MSNBC and CNN (none / 0) (#129)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 04:20:08 PM EST
    everyday. Sorry I don't live on Long Island so Newsday is not part of my reading habit. And Jimmy Fallon bores me to no end.


    Parent
    You can't blame Joe Biden for that. (none / 0) (#142)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 05:31:35 AM EST
    Chuck0: "Sorry I don't live on Long Island so Newsday is not part of my reading habit. And Jimmy Fallon bores me to no end."

    It's also not Biden's fault that cable TV news networks have gone full-tilt boogie 24/7 on coronavirus, to the virtual exclusion of other non-related stories. Right now, it's best that he maintain a low profile and choose his political battles wisely.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Black Swan Event (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 02:57:26 PM EST
    Thomas Wright in The Atlantic:

    COVID-19 was not a Black Swan and will not be the last pandemic. A nervous world will be permanently changed."

    That last part.  Not sure that's all bad.  This virus is scary and it's changing how people go about their lives.  But it's not a Captain Trips, from The Stand, type virus.  
    But you know what.  Captain Trips is coming.  IMO.  Sooner or later there will be a killer virus.  A real killer virus.

    This dress rehearsal we are having with a virus with a 1% death rate might save some lives if the big one comes.

    I have thought for a long time the end for us would not come with bombs but viruses and germs.

    T S Eliot (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Zorba on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 07:08:36 PM EST
    This is the way the world ends.
    This is the way the world ends.
    This is the way the world ends.
    Not with a bang but a whimper.

    Parent
    R.E.M. (1986): (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 05:35:38 AM EST
    It's the end of the world as we know it.
    It's the end of the world as we know it.
    It's the end of the world as we know it,
    And I feel fine.

    Parent
    A guy who was free with advice (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 07:27:23 AM EST

    Was, needless to say, not too nice;
    When warned by his doc,
    He'd scorn and he'd mock.
    Now he's mournfully paying the price.

    Parent
    Do not go gentle (none / 0) (#135)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 07:36:45 PM EST
    into that good night..

    Parent
    And move from Eliot, to Thomas, to Swinburne: (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Zorba on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 08:01:28 PM EST
    From too much love of living,
    From hope and fear set free,
    We thank with brief thanksgiving
    Whatever gods may be
    That no man lives forever,
    That dead men rise up never;
    That even the weariest river
    Winds somewhere safe to sea.

    Parent
    Rage, rage (none / 0) (#137)
    by Zorba on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 07:55:39 PM EST
    Against the dying of the light.

    Parent
    Only peripherally related (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 08:25:27 PM EST
    but, one from my favorite poet Ikkyu for my father who 'isn't doing well' at present:

     Hearing a crow with no mouth

     Cry in the deep

     Darkness of the night

     I feel a longing for

     My father before he was born.

    Parent

    When the going gets tough (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 03:21:45 PM EST
    Sometimes it's better to live alone.

    Lawyers See Divorces Surge Amid Coronavirus Lockdowns

    Yesterday I went to the dispensary.  I went because they had failed to deliver the previous day because, they said, they were so busy no one could leave to make deliveries.  
    Didn't really believe that but I went and OMG.  it was an absolute mob.  Ten times as many people as I have ever seen there.  And I have been many times.  You could not get into the parking lot.  I had to, after calling ahead and placing an order, stand in line, carefully spaced for safety, for over an hour.

    From there I went to the liquor store.  It's now drive thru only.  There was a line to turn off the highway to get into the parking lot to want in line for almost another hour.

    The good news is I am now stocked.  And I live alone.

    We had a very nice bushy (none / 0) (#130)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 04:25:54 PM EST
    plant at our house for awhile.

    I found all the maintenance and coddling and fawning over it to be a very enjoyable diversion and creative outlet.

    Is that something that's feasible for you?

    Parent

    As long (none / 0) (#131)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 04:40:59 PM EST
    As it allowed me private time.

    Parent
    Yeah, we got a little (none / 0) (#132)
    by jondee on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 05:19:59 PM EST
    carried away with it for awhile. Special music, feeding concoctions, a big purple quartz crystal situated near the plant..

    It was kinda fun actually.

    Parent

    Of course (none / 0) (#133)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 05:34:55 PM EST
    I have dozens of plants.  My house is mostly large windows stuck together but in the spring I move them to the deck which is on three sides of the house.

    Just moved them all outside.  Takes all day.

    Parent

    Two of my Christmas cacti are blooming. Again. (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by oculus on Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 09:54:41 PM EST
    A Noble Experiment (none / 0) (#145)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 02:09:46 PM EST
    By ignoring medical advice to issue stay at home orders, the Republican governors of eight states have enrolled their citizens in a vast experiment. In a few weeks we should have the results, which will show conclusively whether thoughts and prayers are more effective against disease than medical practices.

    Have to admit (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 03:38:18 PM EST
    I have mixed feelings about the stay at home orders.
    I do see why they are needed in densely populated areas.  I'm not sure they are needed as much in a states like mine.  Again, obviously locally in population centers, sure, but around here....

    I'm sure different governors have their own reasons.  

    People here are for the most part taking the distancing and wearing protective stuff like gloves and masks very seriously.  Some, really a few, are not.   They are easy to spot.  I can't speak for the governor but i think he might agree with me that if people are too stupid to take care of themselves, well,  sometimes a little thinning of the herd is not the worst thing.

    I know people here would not like the idea.  Of being told to stay at home.    And would probably mostly ignore it anyway.  Everything is either closed or operating in a way that is mostly safe.  So there is no place to go but out for a walk anyway.  

    It does say The Natural State on our license plates so no one is staying inside.  And I know I'm not alone in saying a stay at home order would just make me want to go out.  Even more.

    Our governor is not the greatest.  Far from it.  But he's not the worst.  He has done some things I give him credit for, being a Republican.

    I don't fault him too much for no stay at home order.  One may still come.


    Parent

    wow (none / 0) (#147)
    by leap on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 04:11:47 PM EST
    ...if people are too stupid to take care of themselves, well,  sometimes a little thinning of the herd is not the worst thing.

    Problem with that assessment, those stupid people thin the rest of the non-self-centered, community-minded parts of the herd. I am so disappointed you have fallen into that group.

    Parent

    No they won't (none / 0) (#148)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 04:40:21 PM EST
    Because sensible people are staying home and protecting themselves.  

    How are they going to do that?

    Places like nursing homes have been quarantined except for designated family members for a while.  

    The people who insist on ignoring the warnings will not affect me.   Everyone I know is doing what I am doing.  Staying at home and taking precautions.  If people don't choose not to  one thing I can tell you is an "order from the governor" is not going to make them do it.  No one here is going out now except when they have to.  And they would do that either way.

    I believe, and see in action every day, most people are smart enough to act in their interest.  

    And I'm really sick of people who are to dumb to do that.

    Sorry to disappoint you.

    Parent

    Also (none / 0) (#149)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 04:47:50 PM EST
    Lots of people here have things they have to do.  Like taking care of livestock and crops.  Those things don't get taken care of by the governor.  

    To take care of them they sometimes have to interact with others.

    But I'm pretty sure they want to live.  And the rest of us should want the supply of beef and other stuff they provide to keep coming.

    Parent

    One other thing (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 04:59:05 PM EST
    I am fully aware I could come down with this shite any day.  And I am as scared as you are.

    But if I do it will be my own fault.  100%.  Speaking only for myself, every time, and there has been a few,  I have put myself in a situation where I could be infected, every single time, I knew the risks.  I knew the warnings.  I knew what I was doing.

    If I get it I won't blame the governor.

    Parent

    Not the first post I have made (none / 0) (#150)
    by ragebot on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 04:57:45 PM EST
    about a one size fits all solution to the corona virus problem.

    So far there is one case in the county where my boat is at the marina; a woman who works at the Olin plant but really lives in an adjoining county and drives 30 minutes to work every day.

    While I am working on my boat no one is even with in 20 feet of me.  A large number of the folks in the county have not been out of the county for months and even years. On the other hand the county where my condo is, and I stay sometimes, is the home of a big state university and most of the initial cases were students who had recently traveled to places where it is easier to be exposed to the virus.

    The real question is how to come up with a plan that addresses the reality on the ground that every place is not the same.

    Parent

    My town sits in two counties (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 05:04:03 PM EST
    There are no reported cases in either county.  Most of this state is very rural.  There are a half dozen, maybe, population centers where it makes sense.  

    The thing is, it would change nothing here.  There just are not the kind and number of police here to be asking people if they are going to the grocery store or drug store if not go home.

    Public education is the way.  And its working.  As far as I can see.

    Parent

    How many hospitals do you have ... (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 06:18:41 AM EST
    ... within a 100-mile radius 0f where you live? How many ICU beds, and how many respirators? Because the ER staff of a 225-bed rural county hospital that's becomes swamped by 2,000 COVID-19 patients are going to find themselves every bit as much in crisis as their urban counterparts presently are at Sloan-Kettering or New York Presbyterian.

    As of this writing, the town of Albany, GA (pop. 73,081) in the southwest corner of that state currently has a higher COVID infection rate per capita and overall death toll in raw numbers (31-29) than the much larger capital city of Atlanta (pop. 486,290). The town's two medical centers, Phoebe Putney Memorial Hospital's north and south campuses, have been overwhelmed and have had to airlift patients to as far away as Atlanta and Tallahassee.

    The notion that America's rural communities are somehow special, that they are safer from coronavirus by virtue of lower population densities, and therefore their residents shouldn't necessarily have to shelter in place to the extent that those residents of major urban centers do at present, is a profoundly misguided and even foolhardy one, given the logarithmic increase in cases over the last nine weeks. Let's please stop trafficking in these sorts of misconceptions. TalkLeft.com is not Fox News.

    Residents of rural America simply don't have the healthcare resources and infrastructure that are available to urban residents. When the coronavirus arrives - and it will - it has the potential to devastate rural communities, just as the flu pandemic did in 1918-19. Albany, GA and Dougherty County are struggling right now because of resource shortfalls.  

    Further, recent historical research supports the theory that the 1918-19 flu pandemic likely originated in rural Kansas and Oklahoma, rather than in urban Europe as commonly believed, and that Europeans instead became infected by influenza with the arrival of nearly 1 million American troops in France to bolster the Allied effort in the First World War.

    Viruses don't discriminate between those who live in Los Angeles or Dothan, Alabama. All that's needed to thrive and reproduce are vulnerable hosts. And with high poverty rates and older populations that are aging in place, America's rural communities fit the bill.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Wow (none / 0) (#177)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 08:22:38 AM EST
    Thanks Donald.  I really had no idea about rural health care.

    Until you told me.

    Accordingly no to the Covid 19 site they list a shortage of 86 ventilators and shortage of beds.

    Parent

    By the way (none / 0) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 08:27:49 AM EST
    The curve for my state has shrunk by an amazing amount since the last time I looked.

    Apparently entirely because of the targeted approach they have used.

     

    Parent

    No shortage of beds (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 08:40:25 AM EST
    Indian Country... (none / 0) (#195)
    by desertswine on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 04:33:01 PM EST
     
    The Navajo Nation is reporting its number of positive cases of COVID-19 has increased by 33 cases and one death since Saturday and has now reached a total of 354 cases and a total of 14 confirmed COVID-19 related deaths as of Sunday.

    You can't get more rural than these folks.  Widespread lack of water, no electricity, spotty health care.

    Parent

    Just looking at the info (none / 0) (#197)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 04:48:17 PM EST
    For that state.   On the Covid 19 site.  They have almost a million fewer people than my state but the projected curve there is a lot scarier than ours.

    Parent
    I think that New Mexico (none / 0) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 04:49:57 PM EST
    Right?

    Parent
    Florida is really too big (none / 0) (#154)
    by ragebot on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 05:31:13 PM EST
    to be described.  Areas like Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, Orange, Hillsborough, and Jacksonville are hard hit with Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach leading the pack.  On the other hand many other counties have little to no cases so far.

    While there are almost 200 flights a day from the NE to Florida most go to Miami or Orlando with many areas of the state seeing no influx of out of state travelers.  

    I have previously noted that if you look at the 2016 election map by county it is almost a perfect match to the current virus match at the same resolution.  If the truth be known there is a reason for this match; one size does not fit all.

    Parent

    No opinion on FL (none / 0) (#155)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 05:35:43 PM EST
    Except it's very different from here.  And that governor is not ours.  

    With the population density and the average age I can see the benefit of a statewide stay home order.

    There are 21.5 million people in FL.  There is 3 million in my state.


    Parent

    To put it another way (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 05:43:37 PM EST
    I don't think there are more stupid people per capita there than here.  Just way more people so way more stupid people.

    Enough that they can endanger everyone else.  Not so much here.

    To be clear I don't have a real problem with a statewide stay home order.  Here.

    I just don't think it will make much if any difference.

    Parent

    The governor (none / 0) (#157)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 05:52:43 PM EST
    He is absolutely right about the illusion created by unenforceable stay home orders.

    LITTLE ROCK, Ark -- In a press conference on Thursday afternoon, Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson addressed the public's concern for a 'stay at home' order.

    The governor discussed the state's shut downs of gyms, salons, parks, and more. He said these measure exceed some of the measures that have been taken in other states.

    Hutchinson brought out a graph during the conference, showing the state's projected positive COVID-19 cases from two weeks ago. Compared to two weeks ago, Arkansas has more than 400 less positive COVID-19 cases now than what was originally projected.

    "The strategy of a targeted response to this emergency virus situation in Arkansas is proven to be successful in bending the curve, lowering the apex of the curve, and reducing the number of cases and hospitalizations in Arkansas," Hutchinson explained.

    The governor then showed a map of all the states in the U.S. that have a 'stay at home' order. Arkansas is in the middle, with no order in place. He said the map is not helpful to Arkansans because it gives an unrealistic expectation.

    "It gives the impression that we're not really doing as much as we should be in Arkansas, when you can see from the targeted response that we're doing a great deal and it has been having some success," Hutchinson said.

    Hutchinson went on to say that many of the states who have a shelter in place are "in essence, an illusion to a true 'stay at home' order."

    He said that in California, which is under a 'stay at home order,' millions still get up and go to work every morning. If he issued an order for Arkansas, he said more than 700,000 would get up and go to work and individuals would still go to grocery stores and places like Lowe's because those are the types of places that are being exempted by the 'stay at home' orders.

    He said an order like this for Arkansas would also put around 200,000 out of jobs.



    Parent
    Millions of people going (none / 0) (#158)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 06:55:02 PM EST
    to work in California.....

    Well, not really.  The freeways are deserted.  It is really eerie to see.

    More than half of the people in the grocery store yesterday were wearing masks and I assume in a couple of days that will be almost everyone.

    The beaches are closed.  

    So, California shut down to a very large extent.

    Parent

    Lots of people (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 07:03:31 PM EST
    Are going to work in ca.

    I know some of them.  I know film people who are working and I have relatives who are working in the defense industry.  Not from home.


    Parent

    I have a cousin (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 07:24:55 PM EST
    Actually the husband of my cousin who I have quoted here works in a lab that has been making motors (I think) for things like the new James Webb Space telescope. I talked to her yesterday.  The labs is relatively small, numbers wise, and they never deal with the public.  And they are very busy right now.

    So, she said, they decided to keep working.

    As far as film, shooting has been stopping because, stars, but post work has not stopped.  It will I guess if they don't start shootings but right now lots of people are working.  Those people sit in front of a computer no one else uses, at least not on the same project,  all day.  Less reason to worry.

    Parent

    I will say the Gov. of Arkansas (none / 0) (#164)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 08:26:00 PM EST
    was offensive on MTP this morning when he criticized the Gov. of Washington by saying that his state exempted people from getting pot at dispensaries.....

    The whole red state bias of we are real America and the West Coast is a bunch of pot heads.....As if those in Arkansas are not buying booze and other stuff.

    Parent

    These times (none / 0) (#165)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 08:30:26 PM EST
    show the defects of Libertarianism....One needs to watch for others too.  Not saying you don't.

    But this rural rebellion has more than whiff of doing what is best for them and to hell with the libs and their deep state science.  

    Parent

    The governor is a Republican a hole (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 08:38:01 PM EST
    Whatever.  But he is right that pot dispensers are exempt.

    Which is the exact point.  It's stay at home except for necessities.  Like pot.  Well you know what, it's the same here

    Except for the unenforceable stay at home rule.

    I don't know if you have ever been to my state but  lived in yours for 15 years.  They could not be more different and making believe the same approach is right for both places so you feel better about it is BS

    IMO

    I'm not a libertarian.  I have no idea what that even means.

    Parent

    Not my state (none / 0) (#169)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 08:52:19 PM EST
    I am building a home off the grid in New Mexico, so I get rural. They have only reported two cases in the counties in SW New Mexico.

    Stay at home out there has a totally different connotation.  No one would seriously believe that meant you could not feed the horses or tend to livestock.  Or ride your horse, etc.

     They encourage solitary outdoors activity here under the California stay at home order.

    You can go days out there without seeing another person, even in a car driving in the distance....

    I think there are advantages to being in sync with the rest of the country.

    Parent

    And yes (none / 0) (#170)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 08:57:33 PM EST
    they are still building.  Ongoing construction jobs are exempt under New Mexico's stay at home order, as they are in California.

    Building inspectors, however, will not go out to sign off on plumbing, electrical or framing, etc., unless everyone else is off the job site.

    We had weather delays in the construction schedule.  Otherwise, I would be out there right now.  And not staying indoors at all.  

    Parent

    Also this (none / 0) (#172)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 09:37:46 PM EST
    No one would seriously believe that meant you could not feed the horses or tend to livestock.

    Where do you get the feed?  Is that a necessary business.  How about the fence.   Can't really make it yourself.

    My point was to do these thing and a thousand others farmers and ranchers have to do they have to deal with lots of other people.  In many different business and sub contracting roles.

    Parent

    Lots of other people (none / 0) (#174)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 09:49:20 PM EST
    But not crowds.   One or two others maybe, and not within 10 feet if you want to.

    Parent
    The "fence?" (none / 0) (#175)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 10:11:01 PM EST
    New Mexico is a fence out state.  Meaning cattle get to go everywhere unless you fence off your property.

    Parent
    So what you are saying (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 09:06:40 PM EST
    If I understand, is the governor should issue a basically meaningless stay at home order that would change the behavior of basically no one so we are in sync with you.

    I not clear on why that would make you safer but whatever.  As I said I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea.   I just think it's meaningless.

    The one thing it might change is the 200,000 jobs that could be lost.  In a state with 3 million people that's a lot of jobs.  And please, no economy over health BS.   That's not what I mean at all.  Because people would still after an order be going to Home Depot and Walmart and supermarkets and drugstores AND pot dispensaries.  Just like they are now.

    .  

    Parent

    New Mexico (none / 0) (#173)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 09:47:45 PM EST
    is a very rural state and they issued a stay at home order very early on.

    What is the difference between New Mexico and Arkansas?  One is a blue state with a Democratic Governor and one is red state with a Republican governor that is trying to support Trump politically.

    Parent

    According to the Covid 19 site (none / 0) (#196)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 04:44:42 PM EST
    New Mexico does not have a stay at home order.

    Parent
    I had no idea Hutchinson (none / 0) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 08:45:28 PM EST
    Was on MTP.  Maybe I will watch.  

    Parent
    I work in defense. (none / 0) (#180)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 09:50:39 AM EST
    Those that can work from home are doing that (my entire department). However, our manufacturing operations are continuing. So lots of people are going to work every day. As a defense plant, we are exempt for Gov. Wolf stay at home order. We are deemed an "essential" business.


    Parent
    IATSE reports that the pandemic shutdown has resulted in the loss of 120,000 jobs held by its 150,000 members.
    I would estimate that 80-90% of LA's "film people" are not working. Exhibition is shut down too. No production = no post production. No exhibition = no distribution. Across the country and around the world. With the possible exception of Sweden.

    Clearly some "film people" are still working, I don't think they're producing GMA on Zoom.

    But not many are.

    Parent

    Tech (none / 0) (#186)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 12:32:44 PM EST
    Has made it possible for "home" to have a different kind of meaning in working from home.

    It might be a garage with 6 workstations.

    Parent

    IATSE (none / 0) (#187)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 12:36:36 PM EST
    Represents many areas.  CG is probably a small part if that but sure, IATSE has been hit pretty hard.

    It's my pension.  I'm aware

    Parent

    Also (none / 0) (#200)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 04:53:48 PM EST
    The CG imaging part of post is the most, and pretty much the only part of filmmaking, NON unionized.  Very few CG people are unionized.  Pretty much only Disney and Warner brothers.

    Of the 15 years I worked in the industry 7 are union vested.

    The other 90% of the industry would not be part of IATSE or its numbers.

    Parent

    But yeah (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 07:04:40 PM EST
    Shut down to a large extent.

    Just like here

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#161)
    by FlJoe on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 07:23:29 PM EST
    the stay at home orders are unenforceable and mostly illusionary, but I think that it is helpful illusion. Even if only persuades 5 to 10% more people to stay home and give the local governments and businesses incentive to lock things up tighter, that will till make a huge difference.

    Parent
    The thing is (none / 0) (#182)
    by ragebot on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 10:24:44 AM EST
    the population density is very different in South Florida than in most of the Panhandle.  Aside from Tallahassee, Panama City, and Pensacola most of the Panhandle is rural with low population density.  It is also very different culture with not nearly the diversity of population.  At Miami Jackson Hospital there are translators who speak 96 languages to deal with expected patients.  On the other hand in most of the Panhandle it is common to find folks who only speak one language, bad English.

    There are other areas of the state where cattle ranches (Florida is the third largest beef producing state in the country last I checked) mean a rural culture with little international flavor.

    This is why a one size fits all solution ignores the reality on the ground.  In a tight knit community with little interaction with the outside world there is a reduced chance of exposure to the virus while in a large diverse city with an international air port the chances are much greater.

    Never the less I have been self isolating with minimum contacts.  When I do go out I wear a mask a plastic full face visor and gloves; and wash my hands after the trip.  My shopping is basically at Walmart at 6:00AM Tuesday when it is closed to all but old folks and so far has never been crowded.

    Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on your point of view, I have plenty to do on my boat in terms of cleaning, upgrading some things, and in general getting it ready if I have to bug out.  Since I am the only one on my boat in an almost deserted marina again contact with others is minimal.  The same is true for lots of others around me.

    On the other hand there are plenty of reports about the subways in NYC being full and folks in many big cities unnecessary exposing themselves to others who may be carrying the virus.  While it is true there have been some small cities who have been hit hard they seem to be the exception rather than the rule.  No question the biggest cities in almost every state have far more cases than the rural areas.  If you look at the number of cases per thousand for big cities compared to rural areas it is not close to being the same.  Taking the small number of small cities who have a problem and claiming they are a reflection of reality is simply a mistake and there is no way to sugar coat it.

    To repeat once again 'one size fits all' is not the right way to deal with the problem.

    Parent

    We can't do this shelter in every year (none / 0) (#181)
    by McBain on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 10:17:34 AM EST
    or every 5 years or whatever.  We need to learn from the current situation what worked well and what didn't.  The fact that not all parts of the country are doing the same thing will likely help the leaning process.

    As I mentioned a couple weeks ago, the shelter in strategy where I live feels like a compromise. Different people have different interpretations of the rules.  Some don't care about the rules. I don't agree with the decision to close some of the parks and trails.  That just brings more people to the ones that are open.  

    Parent

    Tales From the Loop (none / 0) (#163)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 05, 2020 at 07:46:55 PM EST
    DirecTV (none / 0) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 12:08:34 PM EST
    Left a few comments about how they might be going out of business and they offered me a different kind of fee to disconnect that was friendlier than past days, so I won't waste more bandwidth but

    I just got my final bill.  It's $6.38.  I got no penalty for bailing on the contract.

    Just interesting I thought

    Nothing to it (none / 0) (#184)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 12:17:07 PM EST
    Like the flu. Butter emails.

    British PM (none / 0) (#188)
    by Zorba on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 02:51:32 PM EST
    Boris Johnson has been moved to intensive care since his COVID-19 symptoms have worsened.

    So the first (none / 0) (#189)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 02:55:43 PM EST
    report of him just going in for testing was a lie.

    Parent
    Well, it does look like (none / 0) (#190)
    by Zorba on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 03:05:15 PM EST
    They minimized it at first.

    Parent
    If it were just tests, (none / 0) (#191)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 03:46:07 PM EST
    Boris could probably have had them done at 10 Downing Street (e.g, blood tests/WBCs to check for immunologic over-reaction, ECG, since the virus can cause heart arrhythmia. CT scan would be more difficult, to check for pneumonitis/pneumonia. Putting him in the hospital readied him for worsening, which apparently is happening.

    Parent
    Maybe he just needs a shot.. (none / 0) (#192)
    by desertswine on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 04:04:28 PM EST
    of that Chloroquine stuff.  He should call Kushner.

    Parent
    Yes. (none / 0) (#199)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 04:50:05 PM EST
    Available through Novartis Pharmaceuticals, the drug firm that paid Michael Cohen, Trump's felonious fixer, $1,2 million to get access to Trump.  

    Parent
    Trump Budget fiscal year 2021, (none / 0) (#193)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 04:12:05 PM EST
    spot on, of course.  A cut to Centers for Disease Control (16%), cut to Health Resources and Services (10%), and cut to WHO (40%).  

    Max Boot, historian and conservative columnist, previously assessed Trump as being the worst president in modern times. He has now revised that assessment to that of the worst president, ever. Beating out non-modern times presidents James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson and Franklin Pierce.

    Well that was depressing... (none / 0) (#194)
    by desertswine on Mon Apr 06, 2020 at 04:22:52 PM EST
    Just got back from Costco;  no toilet paper, no tissues, no paper products of any kind, no disinfectants of any kind.  Also, no rice, beans, eggs, Spam, etc.  This kind of thing should have been rectified by now.  I shouldn't have gone, its morale busting.  

    (At least they did have plenty of whiskey).

    Coastco news from the Eastern Front (none / 0) (#201)
    by jmacWA on Tue Apr 07, 2020 at 08:59:51 AM EST
    Eastern PA.  

    No toilet paper, but plenty of paper towels and tissues.  Some rice, plenty of beans, still had some eggs.  They were low on milk compared to their usual stock.

    Got there just before 0800 when our local costco opens for Seniors... took about 15 minutes on line to get in, but once we were in, it was fairly empty since they are limiting entries.