home

Nevada Primary and Reader Poll

Nevada is voting today. Bernie Sanders seems to be the favorite. I'm still sitting on my mail ballot, waiting for a epithany to tell me who to vote for.

Here's a short poll.

< Roger Stone Sentenced to 40 Months | Harvey Weinstein Acquitted on Most Serious Counts >

Poll

Who Would Win in November?
Bernie Sanders 23%
Elizabeth Warren 28%
Bernie and Michelle Obama (for VP) 4%
Bernie and Oprah (for VP) 9%
Donald Trump 33%

Votes: 21
Results | Other Polls
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    CNN's numbers cruncher (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 22, 2020 at 10:11:38 PM EST
    thinks Bernie is likely to win the delgates needed for the nomination.

    I doubt South Carolina will give Biden the bounce he would need -- while its voters skew older and predominatly African American/female, Bernie's message succeeded, especially in Nevada, because it includes the young and all races and ethnicities rather than catering to any one group.

    I don't expect Biden to do much better in SC than he did in Nevada and certainly and I think he'll drop out right after Super Tuesday if not before.

    My guess (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by ragebot on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 01:14:12 AM EST
    is the key to what happens is how Bloomberg does in the next debate.  CNN, MSNBC, and FOX all bashed Bloomberg for not taking questions after his event last night; something all the talking heads said would give him practice under fire.

    Maybe Bloomberg was playing rope-a-dope; but more likely he is simply not a good retail pol.  If he decided to drop out and back Biden or one of the lesser polling moderates it would be a game changer, especially if he got agreements from the rest of the moderates to drop out as well and make it a two man race.

    That is the only thing I can see (even if I don't think it is very realistic) that would stop Sanders.  I really don't see anyone but Biden getting the needed level of minority support.

    Parent

    My best scenario ... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:00:39 AM EST
    is Biden gets the Clyburn endorsement, and with his help, gets a strong double digit win in S.C..

    The next day, Biden announces Stacey Abrams as his running mate.

    This allows him to win all the Southern States on Super Tuesday.  This, combined with Bernie wins, shuts out Bloomberg everywhere.

    Bloomberg drops out the next day, and announces the creation of a Super PAC to support Biden.

    Biden + Abrams + Bloomberg money could defeat Bernie.

    However, I don't place great hope in any of the above happening.

    Of course, this shouldn't be necessary.  Had anyone ever properly attacked Sanders at any time he would have become a punchline by now.

    But we are where we are.

    Parent

    Sanders (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:26:10 AM EST
    Is about to have his long overdue time in the barrel.

    Then we will see.

    Parent

    NYTimes (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:32:58 AM EST
    Yes, the question will be ... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:45:11 AM EST
    why did you sit on that news for so long?

    Were you afraid to say it as it would have hurt your chances in Iowa and New Hampshire?

    And so on.

    Parent

    Problem with the (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by ragebot on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 09:55:12 AM EST
    Russian involvement is there has never been any details about just what the involvement was.  Sanders griped the leak was timed to happen just before NV.  Congress has said they want more details on just what the involvement was.

    I have seen claims that Russia paid less than $US300,000 to place ads on facebook and had maybe a couple of hundred peeps pounding on computer keyboards making inflammatory posts.  While I don't really think this is OK I am convinced Russia is not alone in doing this, they have been doing it for a long time, and there is no realistic way to stop it.

    More to the point these efforts pale compared to what is spent by candidates.  By most reports Clinton spent in excess of $US1,500,000.

    One point (keep in mind I make money gambling on things like this) often overlooked is Trump has done more to damage Russia than any president in my lifetime (including Reagan) by eliminating regulations governing gas and oil production.  The result has been the price of oil has dropped massively costing the Russians billions of dollars in lost revenue.  Hard to explain why Putin/Russia would be happy about this and want him to be reelected.  Especially since the dem position seems to be more regulations which would reduce oil production.

    Parent

    Nope (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 10:50:19 AM EST
    Trump has done more for Russia than any president in my lifetime. Deregulating has helped not hurt Russia. Why do you think Putin was against Hillary and for Trump? He knew Trump would do his bidding. Forget all that and Trump has made lots of great ads that can be cut where he defends Putin and praises him even believing Putin over the US at his treason summit.

    Parent
    Not a chance (1.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:23:09 PM EST

    Our production of oil and LNG hurts Russia big time.  $2 gasoline is a Putin nightmare.  It is Bernie and Liawatha seeking to increase Russian revenue not Trump.

    Parent
    You need to (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:29:24 PM EST
    read. If you can sell to more markets $2 doesn't matter. The price only matters if your markets are restricted.

    Parent
    There is (none / 0) (#76)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:36:59 PM EST
    Nothing there. That is a Obama former ambassador  saying a lot of words that mean nothing.
    The Donald has been a thorn in the side of Vladimir, and Vlad would like nothing else than a Democrat to be President.

    OIl , gas prices go up
    Cut lethal aid to Ukraine
    Relax Nato contributions to their former level

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#78)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:41:42 PM EST
    dude I don't know the Russian translation for all this but here it is in English regarding the author:

    Robert Rapier is a chemical engineer in the energy industry. Robert has 25 years of international engineering experience in the chemicals, oil and gas, and renewable.

    Parent

    Did you fail Econ 101 (none / 0) (#80)
    by ragebot on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:50:23 PM EST
    Selling a product at a lower price means a lower profit.  If there was a higher price, something that would happen if the US reduced oil production, would mean more profit for Russia.

    The profit is a function of production cost and selling price so a lower selling price is bad for Russia.

    Parent

    Do you not (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 06:11:50 PM EST
    understand that if you are open to more markets you make more money? You don't understand Econ 101 and basic markets. You can sell for less money but if you sell a lot more you make more money. Profit margins don't matter. It's basic. You're basing your statement on limited market share not expanded market share.

    Parent
    Price doesn't matter! (none / 0) (#81)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:52:34 PM EST
    So Russia is just fine and dandy with a lower price on their major export!!!  Truly amazing.


    Parent
    Do you not (none / 0) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 06:13:51 PM EST
    understand market share and opening up markets and how that makes you more money? This is the problem with all you guys. You operate on a plantation economy where there are 5 plots of land and it's all based on what you get off those 5 plots instead of understanding that if you expand to 10 plots even if your price declines you get more money.

    Parent
    Russia (none / 0) (#97)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 07:51:14 AM EST
    Russia is losing market share while prices are dropping. That is a disaster for them. As the US gains market share it is at the expense of the legacy producers.

    No matter how you slice it increased US exports are bad news for the Russians and the Saudis et al.


    Parent

    What (none / 0) (#87)
    by FlJoe on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:17:11 PM EST
    you guys keep leaving out is that the surge in domestic production started under Obama
    For seven straight years, the US has pumped more oil and gas out of the ground than any other country. That lead will only widen, states the US Energy Information Administration (EIA). The independent energy statistical agency describes the US as "the undisputed oil and gas leader in the world over the next several decades."
    That article is from 2018 BTW, you do the math if your tRump addled brains remain capable of it.

    Parent
    The Obama (none / 0) (#89)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:37:34 PM EST
    Set out to close access on government lands for oil
     and natural gas exploration.
    The increase in energy production came despite the efforts of The Obama to cut our energy production, it was that ole fashioned American know how...fracking , that unleashed the USA as the leading energy developer in the world. Nothing The Obama did led to that increase, The Obamas actions tried to curtail our energy production. Wasn't it he who said  "I wish gasoline was $5 a gallon"

    And The Donald, once in office , re opened those federal lands for oil and gas exploration.

    Sorry, it was good ole capitalism and American ca do spirit that lead to our success in the energy field

    Parent

    What (none / 0) (#88)
    by FlJoe on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:20:15 PM EST
    you guys keep leaving out is that the surge in domestic production started under Obama
    For seven straight years, the US has pumped more oil and gas out of the ground than any other country. That lead will only widen, states the US Energy Information Administration (EIA). The independent energy statistical agency describes the US as "the undisputed oil and gas leader in the world over the next several decades."
    That article is from 2018 BTW, you do the math if your tRump addled brains remain capable of it.

    Parent
    You really (none / 0) (#63)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 02:47:22 PM EST
    Have to face reality.
    Trump has done more for Russia than any president in my lifetime.

    What he has done for Russia?  Please list them.

    What he has done is lower the price of oil and natural gas, crippling Russias economy. Democrat policies would raise the price of gas and oil..yes, helping Putin
    Ukraine.Democrats (Obama) would not give Ukraine lethal weaponry to fight Russians and Putin...The Donald did
    The Donald twisted NATO's arm, getting most of the members to contribute more money, strengthening NATO.
    And finally, lets be real here, our most dangerous global adversary is China, not Russia. And Bloomie is in Chinas back pocket, and The Donald has been fighting for the US economy against the Chinese for 3 years.

    Parent

    I mean (none / 0) (#71)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:27:36 PM EST
    google is your friend. News is full of Pro-Putin policies of Trump. Here's one for you to read

    Parent
    That post is just silly (none / 0) (#64)
    by ragebot on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 02:52:33 PM EST
    How does lowering the cost of oil which cost Russia billions in revenue has helped Russia.

    Russia's main source of revenue is selling oil.  They are basically broke and need every penny they can get.

    I don't often call you out for going off the deep end but in this case you really need to accept the reality that Trump's action really hurt Russia.

    Please explain how losing billions of dollars in revenue has helped Russia or admit your post was silly.

    Parent

    I never go off the deep end (none / 0) (#67)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:21:55 PM EST
    please re read the offending post

    I was responding to the prior comment that Trump has helped Russia. I kindly asked them to please list the ways that Trump has helped Russia.
    So far...SO good?

    I then list the things Trump has actually done in his 3 years  

    What he has done is lower the price of oil and natural gas, crippling Russias economy. Democrat policies would raise the price of gas and oil..yes, helping Putin
    Ukraine.Democrats (Obama) would not give Ukraine lethal weaponry to fight Russians and Putin...The Donald did
    The Donald twisted NATO's arm, getting most of the members to contribute more money, strengthening NATO.
    And finally, lets be real here, our most dangerous global adversary is China, not Russia. And Bloomie is in Chinas back pocket, and The Donald has been fighting for the US economy against the Chinese for 3 years.

    I actually state that Democrat policies would raise the price of gas and oil..HELPING PUTIN....I think I was quite clear in stating that Democrat policies would help Putin.
    And the rest of the post also states ways The Donald has hurt Russia.
    Please, before launchin diatribes, please reread the offending post.

    Parent
    To clear things up (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by ragebot on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:42:43 PM EST
    there seems to have been a time lag between my post about who went off the deep end.

    It was suppose to be about ga6 not Trevor.

    Parent

    Even I figured that out (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 01:03:49 AM EST
    Because it wasn't Trevor who said Trump helped Russia, he said the opposite.

    I'm not taking sides, just agreeing that your comment wasn't directed at Trevor and Trevor didn't say Trump helped Russia.

    Parent

    "Democrat policies" (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by Erehwon on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 08:14:00 PM EST
    If that doesn't show bias, what does?

    Parent
    I don't understand (2.00 / 1) (#95)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 07:19:47 AM EST
    Shutting down all fracking is a Democrat policy...is it not?
    Opening up fracking, expansion of government land access to fracking is a Republican policy..is it not?
    Certain policies are just attached to political parties
    Republican policy...Voter ID
    Democrat policy....No Voter ID, no restrictions for any voting, early voting, vote by mail
    Republican policy: Border Security
    Democrat policy: Open borders, everyone come on in

    what bias is exhibited? Just policy planks from 2 different political parties

    Parent

    The name of the party is (5.00 / 4) (#106)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 09:46:46 AM EST
    the Democratic Party, not the "Democrat" party. A member of that party is a Democrat. That word is a noun. The adjectival form of the word is "Democratic," not "Democrat." Only those who choose to disparage its ideas use "Democrat" as an adjective, always in a disrespectful and sneering way. The bias you show is in using the vocabulary of the party's nastiest detractors.

    Parent
    A More Generous Explanation (2.00 / 2) (#116)
    by RickyJim on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:29:25 AM EST
    Republican is both noun and adjective.  Thus one might confuse Democrat to be both also.

    Parent
    A better comparison would be (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 12:13:31 PM EST
    how antisemites use "Jew" (or "jew") in place of "Jewish" as an adjective.

    Parent
    RickyJim: "A More Generous Explanation[:] Republican is both noun and adjective. Thus one might confuse Democrat to be both also."

    ... has actually been around since 1829, and for the better part of two centuries, people never seemed to have any problem referencing either the Democratic Party as the Democratic Party or Democrats as, you know, Democrats.

    So, no, RickyJim, this willful lapse of nomenclature is a recent phenomenon, and it's a conscious effort by Republicans to turn our own party's name into a pejorative. Personally, I think that's because the median emotional age of today's Republicans appears to be somewhere between 13 and 16 years. Doesn't that make them "the Heathers Party"?

    Aloha.

    Parent

    When I hear (none / 0) (#155)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 07:38:16 PM EST
    someone talk about "Democrat" policies or the "Democrat" party, I stop listening.

    I think Karl Rove did that.  He started the "Democrat" Party taunt because it rhymes with "rat."

    Parent

    The current National (none / 0) (#156)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 07:39:16 PM EST
    Security Advisor said something about the "Democrat" Party today as he was engaging in political commentary.....

    Parent
    Tr*mp does it (none / 0) (#158)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 07:52:02 PM EST
    all the time.

    Parent
    Heathers, one and all. (none / 0) (#160)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 09:14:12 PM EST
    ;-D

    Parent
    Do you not (none / 0) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:23:00 PM EST
    realize that Trump opened up more markets for Russian gas and Putin outfoxed Trump in Venezuela?

    You need better sources of information other than wingnut welfare. The reason for the decline had to do with China who is now buying their gas from Iran.

    You can read about it here

    Parent

    I have no clue (none / 0) (#73)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:30:19 PM EST
    As to anything you are alleging

    What difference does it make where China buys it gas and oil
    The price is determined by the overall supply of gas and oil available on the marketplace
    By becoming the largest producer of gas and oil, generating a glut on the market, through fracking, we have damaged Russias economy. Democrat policy to cut our production obviously helps Vladimir.

    Just face it, Trump has done NOTHING to help Russia

    It is a media meme trumpeted out, with no facts behind it

    Parent

    Yes, it's literally years overdue ... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:43:11 AM EST
    and there's so much to ask him.  So many things he needs to explain.

    But I'm worried that Dems will just throw a few anemic jabs.  He'll easily withstand those, leaving him entirely unprepared for the GOP onslaught that we know is coming.

    And the GOP won't just hit him on his weaknesses, suggesting he's somewhere to the left of Stalin, etc..  They will hit him on his strengths.

    They will go right at his integrity. My guess is they'll paint him as a phony and crook, who's living the high life off the money his supporters give him.

    And those are the kind of attacks that stick.  Even when they're mostly fabricated.

    Parent

    One thing we know (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:48:49 AM EST
    Trump and the right will hit him with every bit of it.

    Parent
    About the anemic jabs (none / 0) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:57:17 AM EST
    Pete really went after him pretty good last night.  And the internets, for which RawStory is the clearing house, reacted exactly as you would expect.

    `Dude, show some humility': NYC mayor rips Buttigieg for acting `so smug when you just got your ass kicked'

    The thing is I don't think Pete gives a fig about DeBlahzio or RawStory.  And I know some other candidates don't.


    Parent

    The entire media collectively forgot ... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 08:20:16 AM EST
    how email worked, and repeatedly asked Hillary questions about hers, and were never satisfied with her answers. And even when she was proven to be correct, they kept at it.

    Sanders has never even been close to that kind of time in the barrel.

    Parent

    I said once before (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 08:29:47 AM EST
    The really interesting part of this will come when Bloomberg rolls out his army of AA campaign surrogates, he absolutely has one if you don't believe it use the google, and AA support starts getting behind him.  I believe it will.  We can all believe whatever we wish.

    But if it does liberal sites are going to find them selves in a very interesting place.  Which would be going against the minority base of the Democratic Party

    It seems to me that will not be a comfortable place to be for them.  But that's just me.

    Here's the bottom line, the internet screamers and breath holders if fact represent a tiny percentage of the voting public.  Hence I fear they will be kicked to the curb in spite of all the noise they are capable of making.

    Parent

    Just like to clarify one thing (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 09:08:56 AM EST
    And I'll stfu

    I am not now and have never been a Bloomberg supporter particularly.  In the gauzy wonderland of dreams I would much much rather have a President Warren.  Or Pete or Amy or even god forbid Sanders.  

    Here's  the thing.  I want to win.  From where I sit the only one who can beat Trump is Bloomberg.  The only one likely to save the House and win the Senate is Bloomberg and his wallet.

     And please spare me the head to head where they are all beating Trump.  If you believe that you are irrelevant to the conversation that needs to happen.

    I want to win.  I want whoever to do whatever it takes

    To win.  

    Parent

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 11:01:07 AM EST
    I feel the same way you do. I would rather have any other candidate except Bernie besides Bloomberg. However Bloomberg appears to be the only one so far that realizes what is at stake in November.

    Parent
    By all accounts (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by ragebot on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 10:08:33 AM EST
    Biden had the dem machine behind him in NV.  Problem was the union bosses got so much blowback from the members they declined to endorse a candidate.  Sanders ran away with that vote.

    It is one thing to say AA leaders who Bloomberg gave big bucks to support him; but something entirely different to say this translates to wide spread AA support.

    CBS is reporting Sanders is up from 2% to 23% AA support in SC (Biden is leading).

    I still think the key for Bloomberg is if he can improve his retail pol skills.  His failure at the last debate was an eye opener.  He still is not taking any questions from the press and declines offers to appear on TV.  Watching Bloomberg get bashed on TV and then seeing a slick Bloomberg ad does not seem like a winning plan to me.

    Parent

    According (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 11:03:03 AM EST
    to polling nothing really happened to Bloomberg from that debate. Warren was largely judged to have won the debate but her numbers did not move at all. Debates for the most part don't seem to matter.

    Parent
    They have really ... (none / 0) (#50)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 11:18:37 AM EST
    mattered very little this cycle.

    Maybe Amy benefited from the NH one.  But it hasn't carried over.

    Parent

    Next Tuesday (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 11:21:41 AM EST
    Next Tuesday .........

    Parent
    Um (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 11:41:10 AM EST
    What I mean is it will be do or die for Bloomberg and, well, pretty much everybody plus Bernie and the Russians.

    Hard to imagine they could make that dull but I do not underestimate them.

    Parent

    Bloomberg will have to go ... (none / 0) (#53)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 11:47:30 AM EST
    after Sanders in that debate, while balancing it with the "Mike can get it done" message.

    Parent
    If debates (none / 0) (#54)
    by KeysDan on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 11:59:21 AM EST
    are not, in any appreciable way, determinative, that will be good for Bloomberg.  While his next debate performance is likely to be different, it may not be better---although some of the media will marvel at a newly found William Jennings Bryan.

     Debating is not among Bloomberg's strongest skill sets.  Unlike Elizabeth Warren's intellectually grounded oppositional arguments, Bloomberg's smugness may infiltrate his sparring with meanness.  The best coaching may be useless against a set demeanor.  Bloomberg is well-advised to stick to other public venues.  He has a personality for radio and TV ads.

    Parent

    Warren's (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 12:33:04 PM EST
    problem IMO is not Bloomberg. Her problem is her inability to stand up to Sanders. Nobody in that debate realized that Sanders is the front runner that they need to aim their ire on. It's not about getting Sanders supporters. They are a cult and will not move but it's about showing the other 75% that you will stand up to Sanders bullies. If you can't stand up to Sanders you really don't need to be the nominee because it's showing you can't stand up to Trump. Now maybe she will change her MO at the next debate but I'm not hopeful. Her Nevada speech was all about Bloomberg. Bloomberg should be ignored for now and all attention put on Sanders.

    Parent
    Donald from Hawaii (none / 0) (#60)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 02:29:23 PM EST
    Called it the other day. Warren wants to go against Sanders, one on one. She, and the other candidates want Bloomie out first..(he did promise to financially support the Dem candidate) then present themselves as the best viable option to The Bern. The other candidates likely feel the same way. Their BEST option to winning the nomination is to take Bloomie out first

    Parent
    If you go after Bloomberg ... (none / 0) (#96)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 07:23:18 AM EST
    before Sanders that just hands Sanders the nomination.

    You have to go after Sanders.  He's winning.

    This is similar to the loony "lanes theory" that handed Trump the nomination.

    There is only one prize in the nomination.  You only win by beating the person who's winning.  Or continuing to win if you're that person who's winning.


    Parent

    why would she stand up (none / 0) (#94)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 01:10:53 AM EST
    against Sanders when they agree on so many things? I'm sure she's surprised by his leap but she'll happily campaign for him if he gets the nomination.

    Parent
    To show (none / 0) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 11:46:33 AM EST
    the voters that she can stand up to bullies and Sanders and his supporters have been the ultimate bullies all across social media. This is not about policy stances. You have to prove you can stand up to Bernie to show us you can stand up to Trump. If you wilt before Bernie you're showing us you will wilt before Trump and you should not be nominee.

    Parent
    I have a slightly different take than (none / 0) (#130)
    by vml68 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 12:42:38 PM EST
    Ga6thdem.
    I am assuming Warren is running to be the nominee. In that case, she needs to be going after the frontrunner (Bernie). If, she would be just as happy if Bernie wins, what is the point of her running? All she is doing is taking support away from Bernie.
    I have read some speculation that she is angling for VP. No idea if it is true and if it is, what a total waste.

    Parent
    Warren VP Sounds Far Fetched (none / 0) (#152)
    by RickyJim on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 07:08:33 PM EST
    Since the eventual nominee is likely to be a septuagenarian it would seem that a younger person would be chosen to be the second slot on the ticket.

    Parent
    Bloomberg is ... (none / 0) (#57)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 12:34:54 PM EST
    never going to be some great inspirational figure.

    He just needs to show message discipline and present a clear contrast with Sanders to do well enough in the debates.

    Parent

    Agreed (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:45:49 AM EST
    Tracy!! (5.00 / 4) (#127)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 12:14:29 PM EST
    Welcome back!

    Parent
    The headlines keep me reading (none / 0) (#169)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 06, 2020 at 12:53:21 PM EST
    Instead of blogging.

    Josh is home for spring break. A little worried about him going back because he is considered to have thoracic insufficiency because of his scoliosis. His age group seems to handle the coronavirus okay, and he has received the pneumonia vaccine. Not sure if this helps with this virus though.

    Hope this finds you and yours well Peter

    Parent

    Wow (none / 0) (#14)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 06:06:16 AM EST
    That would be a shocker, I fully expect a contested convention.
    To stop The Bern, the Never Berners have to put aside their ego's, something the Republican candidates for the nomination would not do, enabling Trump to steal the nomination.They have to agree to consolidate behind 1 candidate to take on The Bern, and that would probably get them to a contested election. Then the Super Delegates would step in and anoint the Never Bern candidate.
    rCP polling has The Bern up in Ca, Texas, and North Carolina....against a full field.

    Only thing for sure, barring a health emergency, is that The Bern will show up at the convention with a fistful of delegates.

    Parent

    Contested convention (none / 0) (#31)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 08:58:33 AM EST
    In that case it's Bloomberg. Most delegates are office holders or would be office holders. Paying off campaign debts or funding campaigns is a long established practice at switching delegate votes from no hope candidates.  Who would not want a brand new rec center in your district with your name on it?

    Parent
    Dems are going to blow it ... again! (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 06:44:44 AM EST
    For the first time in my life, the generic positions of Democrats align with the majority of the population on almost all of the important issues.

    Yet, it looks like Dems are going nominate a candidate (Sanders) who throws those positions out the window, replacing them with much less popular positions.

    While, tonally, Sanders is another grievance candidate, sowing conspiracy theories and pointing fingers of blame everywhere.

    Not to mention the fact that he's never really faced oppo. And the GOP will hit him with it hard.

    I'll support him if he gets the nomination.  But this feels like it's going to be a depressing campaign with the inevitable result at the end.  Another loss.

    I would prefer (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by jmacWA on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:10:50 AM EST
    that the Democrats nominate someone who is a member of the Democratic party... but as you say he will get my support if he has the nomination

    Parent
    Me too! (none / 0) (#21)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:29:14 AM EST
    And I know Sanders claims to be a "democratic socialist".  Whatever that is.

    But he just seems like a populist to me.  Maybe a progressive populist on his good days.  Just a garden variety populist on the rest.

    Parent

    It's not just 4 more years of Trump (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 08:20:00 AM EST
    Sanders Causes Down-Ballot Jitters

    February 23, 2020 at 7:46 am EST By Taegan Goddard 317 Comments

    Washington Post: "As Sanders builds what could eventually be an insurmountable delegate lead, many Democratic House and Senate candidates are approaching a dramatic shift in their campaigns, as they recalibrate to include praise of capitalism and distance themselves from the national party. Top campaign strategists from both parties view Sanders's success as a potentially tectonic event, which could narrow the party's already slim hopes of retaking the Senate majority and fuel GOP dreams of reclaiming the House, which it lost amid a Democratic romp in 2018."



    Parent
    Yes, it probably takes winning ... (none / 0) (#29)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 08:23:26 AM EST
    the Senate off the table and puts the House at risk.

    Parent
    Interesting how the Democratic (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 12:19:38 PM EST
    primary vote seems to draw the most comments from the "conservative" posters of TalkLeft. They seem to have more opinions and insight into the Democratic field than anyone.

    It is just (none / 0) (#58)
    by KeysDan on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 01:33:46 PM EST
    because they are troubled by Democratic primary competition.  They are concerned like a common Susan Collins. By keeping it up, Democrats could lose.to the most corrupt president in the history of the country.

    Parent
    To be fair (none / 0) (#61)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 02:33:46 PM EST
    The Republican fight for the nomination in 2016 (the famous clown car) elicited countless comments from the normal Democrat crew. Frankly, it is fascinating to follow the politics of it, without the nerve wracking feeling that your party is in the process of blowing it which is how I felt throughout the 2016 nomination process.


    Parent
    Yes, the 2020 Democratic (none / 0) (#65)
    by KeysDan on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 03:53:14 PM EST
    Primary is reduced to discussing competing ideas for improving the lives of Americans along with alternative ways and means of achieving them. And, of course personalities espousing political ideologies.  

    Whereas, the Democrats seeing the Republican primary of 2016 in terms of a clown car derby, in retrospect, did not appreciate the political science esotericism of candidate interplays such as the implication of men's small hand size and its defense of fury; name calling e,g. He is a kook, he is just an entertainer,he is crazy; associations made between a candidate's father and the assassination of JFK; school-yard taunts-- little Marco, ly'n Ted, and exchanges of appearance, you wear spray tan, yeah well, your wife is  ugly.  

    Parent

    I haven't heard many (1.67 / 3) (#70)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:26:07 PM EST
    Primary is reduced to discussing competing ideas for improving the lives of Americans along with alternative ways and means of achieving them

    best way to help all Americans is to ramp up the economy...Haven't heard 1 word about that.

    Have heard that we will have no borders any more, all illegal immigrants will have health insurance,   guaranteed incomes

    Haven't heard much discussed that helps all Americans though

    Parent

    And that's because ... (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 05:09:10 PM EST
    TrevorBolder: "I haven't heard many [...] best way to help all Americans is to ramp up the economy ... Haven't heard 1 word about that. Have heard that we will have no borders any more, all illegal immigrants will have health insurance, guaranteed incomes[.]"

    ... you not really listening to anyone. Rather, to paraphrase Simon and Garfunkel, you hear only what you want to hear and you disregard the rest.

    Honestly, guy, nobody in the Democratic field of candidates has called for "open borders" and "guaranteed incomes for illegal immigrants." Nobody. The only ones who are (repeatedly) making that false claim are you and your friends on the right.

    And by the way, nobody in this country is "illegal." That's a derogatory pejorative used on the right to convey a sense of racial and ethnic superiority on the part of the (white) speaker. The correct term to use is "undocumented."

    If you want others here and elsewhere to take your concerns seriously, then you really need to cease referencing immigrants and people of color as though they were little more than vermin, by which your obvious intent is to deny and denigrate their humanity.

    Learn to be respectful of others and their opinions, and they'll likely reciprocate in kind. Treat people with disdain and contempt, and you'll likewise receive it in spades.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    You don't pay attention (1.00 / 2) (#168)
    by TrevorBolder on Tue Feb 25, 2020 at 08:42:38 PM EST
    To your own party, do you?

    Have heard that we will have no borders any more, all illegal immigrants will have health insurance, guaranteed incomes[.]"

    All the candidates are for open borders,

    They all support free health care for people illegally in this country (that better)
    And they have proposed guaranteed incomes for all

    Parent

    Glad to see NV (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by ragebot on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 06:05:09 PM EST
    did not screw the pooch like IA did with it's caucus results being delayed.

    Oh never mind.

    Cuba used to have (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by fishcamp on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:16:21 AM EST
    excellent medical care, but not any more.  Most or many of the doctors have fled because they can't earn any money there.  If one plans to go to the hospital for a procedure they must bring their own meds that have to be purchased illegally with US dollars.  Sounds like Bernie is out of touch with the medical situation in Cuba.

    And Cuban government outsourced (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 11:31:39 AM EST
    many Cuban doctors to other countries.

    Parent
    As someone (none / 0) (#142)
    by ragebot on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 04:24:12 PM EST
    who has been to Cuba recently and still has lots of friends who live there I have to disagree.

    Cuba has a successful basic education and health care system.  In great part this is due to the economic situation.  Cuban education is really basic, reading, writing, and arithmetic; and it is taught in a no nonsense manner.  Any student that even slightly misbehaves is given a choice; stay in school and behave or cut sugar cane in the fields.  There is also a lot of peer pressure to continue preserving Cuba's status as having one of the highest rates of literacy of any country in the world.  Unlike places like Detroit where some high schools graduate 80% of the students as functionally illiterate.

    Same for the health care system.  Unlike the US where diabetes is a huge problem a simple diet of unprocessed basic food with sometimes half the calories a lot of US citizens eat really helps.  There is also a lot of free basic medical care for everyone.  Things like prenatal care are easy to get; along with basic exams on a regular basis.  Truth be told a big reason most Cubans are healthy is more related to life style; little TV, internet, sitting around all day, and a sense of community.

    One of my good friends is a Canadian who literally wrote the book about cruising in Cuba.  He keeps his finger on the pulse of what is currently happening there.  I can assure you there are real upsides to the Cuban system of health care and education.

    Parent

    Is the (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 04:38:06 PM EST
    50% calorie thing by choice

    Just asking

    Parent

    Not trying to doget the question (none / 0) (#163)
    by ragebot on Tue Feb 25, 2020 at 12:40:20 AM EST
    but getting food in Cuba is best described as hit and miss unless you are a party official or tourist who is spending big bucks.  Here is a blurb from my friend Addison that explains the two types of pesos. There is also a black market exchanging US currency for pesos at better than official rates.  Some stores take one peso, some the other, and some take both.  To complicate matters more the Cuban secret police do a decent job of trying to control the black market.  There are also stores that sell food to tourist businesses (hotels and the like) and stores that only sell to Cuban citizens and require ration cards (which are also sold on the black market).  Bottom line is it is not just a question of having the right peso and ration card, but finding a store with shelves that are not bare.  On the other hand there are open air food markets where they sell things like a just butchered pig; but only till all the pig is sold.  So while no one really goes hungry they do have a diet that is restricted for multiple reasons.  The open air markets do sell a lot of fresh veggies straight from the farm; and they are often available early in the day.  Bottom line is it is very hard to answer this question with a yes or no; it depends on how resourceful and how much luck and money someone has.

    When is a Peso not a Peso?
    For a visitor one of the most confusing aspects of day to day Cuban life is navigating between two parallel currency systems. To make matters worse there is much mis-information on the internet from well intentioned but mis-informed individuals.
    Here is the Cuba Land and Sea survival guide to the Cuban Peso
    1. There are two Pesos in Cuba. The Convertible Peso or CUC is nominally pegged by the Cuban government at par with the US dollar. The symbol used is the $. Usually the CUC is referred to as the "kook" but you may also hear the word "Divisa". When you arrive in Cuba and wish to exchange your foreign currency, you will receive CUC.
    2. The second Peso is the National Peso or CUP. They are also referred to as Moneda Nacional, Peso Cubano. The symbol used is also the $. If you wish to carry CUP, you must first buy CUC and use the CUC to buy CUP. The exchange rate is 1:24 in other words 1 CUC will buy 24 CUP. Confused yet? We are and we understand how it works!
    No matter what you read on the internet you can carry the CUP and if you are here for more than a few days we recommend that you do.
    3. Why do we need to carry two currencies? Firstly imported goods, fuel, marinas and alcohol are usually paid for in CUC. Since 2013 these purchases can also be paid for with CUP but with a 24:1 exchange rate, you need to carry a lot of CUP bills to carry the equivalent value. For example a 10 gallon diesel purchase today will cost $38 CUC. In CUP the same purchase will cost $912. Since the largest CUP bill in normal circulation is $50, ($100, $500 & $1000 notes have been issued since 2016 but the two largest denominations are still pretty rare) you need a pretty big roll to pay in CUP. If you pull up to the pumps in a trawler you will need a forklift to move the cash.
    Secondly if you want to experience the Cuban way of life by shopping in farmer's markets, riding local buses or old shared taxis called maquinas, or dine in small non tourist paladars, you will need CUP. You can always spend CUC in these establishments but you will likely pay more, and your head will hurt trying to do the mental math. We always carry a supply of CUP, and normally $3-$400 is plenty.
    To understand the evolution of the two currencies is to understand much about the current state of affairs between Cuba and it's neigbours, however that is a discussion for another day.


    Parent
    Weeping, moaning and gnashing of teeth. (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 02:49:44 PM EST
    What a sad state of affairs.  How in the world did we get to this place, asks the media (excluding, of course, FOX etc do not count), especially some MSNBC pundits.

      Tweety has become totally out of sorts--ties Bernie to fears of executions in Central Park, and likens Bernie's pulling ahead to Nazi's invading France.  Bernie must be stopped... they discover, after, essentially, skipping over Pete's win in Iowa(only delegates not popular vote, although that metric changes, and besides who cares about delegates to the convention). And, Iowa was a mess, so it does not count in Pete's case.

    Bernie was victor in New Hampshire, by less than two percent---with little mention of this being a poor performance in a state contiguous to Vermont and for the Bernie revolutional movement under way for many years. And,by a newcomer who is a small city mayor.  The "big news" otherwise for New Hampshire, was the grand surge by Amy Klobuchar, a more distance number three to Pete's very close number two. But, but, she scored in the debate, quoting an FDR funeral mourner, and all. Book her on all the shows, repeatedly.

    Joy Reid and, frequent guest on all the MSNBC shows, Jason Johnson, could rarely find a good word for Pete, if they could find a word at all.

    Before the Iowa vote, Elizabeth Warren was left off on a DesMoines Register poll and was, essentially, erased after NH (not seeming to care that there were 48 states left), moving on to the new hope, Amy Klobuchar.

    And, then came Mike Bloomberg.  Setting him and the debate up as the match of the century.  Of course, Bloomberg has not had the debating experience gained by his competitors over the past year.

    With New York as the world's media capital, the charisma-challenged former New York mayor's likely performance could be predicted by these experts as not likely to be stellar. Set up for a fall.

    While it is clear to all but Trump and his lackeys, Russia is interfering in the 2020 election. It is not clear as to the ways and means, but as in 2016, surely one tactic is to find differences in the Democratic Party and work to cause chaos and chasm. We need to be smarter than to yield to media gaslighting and wringing of hands.

     It is a primary, and we knew that one of the contenders on the stage would win. Any front runner can be expected to be pummeled by Republicans/Russians. Mother Teresa would be cast as a street walker.

     We often said, blue no matter who.  It may be time to honor that pledge.

    double post (none / 0) (#1)
    by Peter G on Sat Feb 22, 2020 at 03:14:18 PM EST
    Do I get to vote twice?

    Or (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 22, 2020 at 03:40:25 PM EST
    At least different choices

    Just watching Sanders rally in TX

    he is as good as I have ever seen him.

    Parent

    Almost (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 22, 2020 at 03:41:59 PM EST
    Getting a few spring bits in with the agita

    Parent
    Grrr (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 22, 2020 at 03:42:38 PM EST
    SOARING bits

    Parent
    is this comment about (none / 0) (#7)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 22, 2020 at 04:10:16 PM EST
    Nevada? If not, please use an open thread, thanks!

    Parent
    Beyond the fact (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 22, 2020 at 04:16:32 PM EST
    He was soaring because if NV and they were showing it in the coverage of NV.

    I guess not.  Sorry.

    Parent

    Ruh rho (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 22, 2020 at 03:56:26 PM EST
    Results are late

    There was a double post and (none / 0) (#6)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 22, 2020 at 04:09:35 PM EST
    I deleted the one without comments but somehow
    the poll got deleted in this one so if you voted, please vote again as I just replaced it.

    Channel surfing again (none / 0) (#9)
    by ragebot on Sat Feb 22, 2020 at 06:05:13 PM EST
    Early results from FOX has Sanders at 56% and Biden at 17% while MSNBC has Sanders at 29% and Warren at 19%.  Interestingly both MSNBC and CNN are all NV caucus all the time while FOX is switching to other news.

    Those results are from entirely different (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 22, 2020 at 06:11:24 PM EST
    Types of reporting.  

    The MSNBC number is official reporting mostly from rural areas.  Not Sanders strong areas

    The higher number is from entrance polls

    Parent

    Talking heads on MSNBC (none / 0) (#11)
    by ragebot on Sat Feb 22, 2020 at 09:08:20 PM EST
    are griping that NV results are too slow coming in.  Yang really made a good point that after Iowa everybody claimed they won.  One idea floated was Iowa, NH, NV, and SC all vote on the first day.

    Parent
    Yang (none / 0) (#15)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 06:12:52 AM EST
    Talking sense. Might have got more traction if he didn't use the gimmick of free money. Made sense in that short blurb

    https://tinyurl.com/wfstel3

    Parent

    When working people hear "free money" (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 09:03:14 AM EST
    They hear "I'm paying for it."

    Parent
    Sanders is not the problem (none / 0) (#34)
    by ragebot on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 09:31:45 AM EST
    He is the symptom.  Cortez, Omar, Talib, and the following they have are politically even more left wing than Sanders.  They represent a real and very different position that is significantly different than the rest of the dems.  While it kinda bothers me that Trump often has a potty mouth I sorta look past it to his policies like remaking the federal courts.  Talib on the other hand seems to revel in using profanity; and I have little doubt she is honest in thinking it is justified.  Same goes for a lot of what I will call a lot of followers of the movement Sanders and The Squad represent.

    Point is that I really don't see how to reconcile the mainstream dems and the direction Sanders and his minions are heading to.  The Bernie Bros have still not forgotten what they view as Clinton stealing the nomination from Sanders (I know all about Clinton's legit win, but what matters is what the Bernie Bros believe).

    I could name probably half a dozen regular posters here who have posted things about Sanders that often seem harsher than what they post about Trump.  I also understand Sanders represents a real threat, the dems could lose any chance to take the Senate, lose the house, and have Trump win a second term; not to mention additional down ballot disasters.

    The big advantage the pubs have is polls show over 90% of them support Trump.  Most folks agree around 30% of the dems support Sanders with all other choices double digits behind him.  While there are lots of real hard feelings between Sanders and the other dems there are also a smaller number of hard feelings between the other candidates.  A really significant number of dems resent Bloomberg (and to some extent Styers) for trying to buy the nomination.  While both have got some traction they both are spending way more than all other candidates combined.  Don't think for a second this does not create hard feelings.

    Bottom line is the current dem party is fractured.  Not just by Sanders and his followers but by several other policy splits among the other candidates while there is no real split among the pubs.

    Is it Parallel to the 2016 Republican Situation? (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by RickyJim on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 09:54:46 AM EST
    Please refresh my memory.  At this point in 2016, I think the Republicans were fretting about the possibility that Trump would be nominated and how that might ruin downstream candidates.  I hope there are state by state Sanders vs Trump polls coming out soon to clarify things.

    Parent
    P Wire (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 12:47:02 PM EST
    Quote of the Day

    February 24, 2020 at 12:58 pm EST By Taegan Goddard 140 Comments

    "I don't see a whole lot of 2016 in this election. I see a whole lot of 1972."

    -- Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-SC), quoted by the Charleston Post & Courier, comparing Bernie Sanders to George McGovern.



    Parent
    Of course it is (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 10:15:15 AM EST
    Except for the ending.  If I thought for a second it would end the same I would be Bernie or bust.

    Parent
    The GOP did have a net loss ... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 10:27:54 AM EST
    of six House seats and two Senate seats with Trump a the top of the ticket in 2016.

    Not enough for the GOP to lose either body.  But not a great result.

    And things could be much worse for Dems this year, since they're protecting gains from '18 in many districts that favored Trump in '16.

    Parent

    Important point (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by ragebot on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 10:33:40 AM EST
    is that seats the dems won were by candidates who campaigned on being middle of the road pols who could work with the pubs.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 06:19:58 PM EST
    no, they didn't campaign on working with Republicans. What they did run on were issues that were important to their district. Nobody can work with the current Putin apostles. And frankly if I were them I wouldn't want the taint of the GOP on my policy proposals.

    Parent
    Exactly (1.00 / 1) (#62)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 02:36:48 PM EST
    The Squad took over the party, Pelosi let them run a little wild, she used to be good at installing caucus discipline, but the Squad did have enough representatives in their corner as well

    Parent
    The squad (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:36:50 PM EST
    only runs the party in the fevered mind of Putin apostles. They are only 4 and they represent a minority of the party unlike the white nationalists who run the GOP.

    Parent
    Such insight (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 09:53:16 AM EST
    So many things in there I would like to shred but I will go with this

    Point is that I really don't see how to reconcile the mainstream dems and the direction Sanders and his minions are heading to.

    Let me explain how that might work.

    You don't.  You win without them.

    But, HOW you ask.  Well you might do that by getting a large number of republicans to vote for Bloomberg.  There are plenty of republicans who would vote for him over Trump.  Just ask Clint Eastwood.  So if he was the nominee I would guess the goal would be to get most democrats and many republicans who might not admit it even to their spouse.

    Now, how that might work downballot is another question but I honestly think if we arrived at that point very few actual democrats would be disenchanted enough to stay home.

    Hope that helps.


    Parent

    How did that workout in 2016 (none / 0) (#41)
    by ragebot on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 10:31:37 AM EST
    I doubt Sanders would endorse Bloomberg given his lackluster effort to endorse Clinton.

    Since Eastwood did not endorse Trump in 2016 I am not sure he is an example of a 2016 Trump voter who is switching to voting to Bloomberg.  In fact Eastwood never said he was voting for Bloomberg (or anyone else for that matter).

    Face the Nation seemed to be wall to wall Bloomberg ads.

    Parent

    Michael Moore and other ... (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 10:49:46 AM EST
    Bernie fans are pushing this mythology that Bernie "worked his ass off" for Hillary.

    And most of the press just lets this slide.

    Forgetting how Bernie disappeared for most of October.

    Remember all the Dems saying:  Where's Bernie?

    Then he had to get cajoled by Bill Clinton and others, combined with a lot of promises, to get him back on the trail.

    Parent

    Oh, there (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:35:36 PM EST
    were huge splits among the GOP in 2016 but most of the ones have now left the party part of the 30 year exodus from the GOP. Of course, now they're all Trump apologists and Putin apostles whatever is left.

    Parent
    Weird how the results ... (none / 0) (#43)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 10:44:41 AM EST
    are still stuck at 50% reporting.

    It's like the counters took the night off and hit the casinos.

    We may be seeing the end of (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by ragebot on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 10:54:43 AM EST
    caucuses.  It is not just that they take way more effort to participate they also do not provide the same result as a straight up election.

    In a real election you don't get a mulligan; in a caucus you do; big difference.

    Parent

    Yup, caucuses are toast. (none / 0) (#47)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 10:59:02 AM EST
    Luckily, Nevada is the last important one of this cycle.

    Parent
    It really doesn't matter, Jeralyn. (none / 0) (#59)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 02:23:13 PM EST
    New (none / 0) (#66)
    by FlJoe on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 04:31:04 PM EST
    poll from CBS
    Sanders 28%
    Warren 19%
    Biden 17%
    Bloomberg 13%
    Buttigieg 10%
    Klobuchar 5%
    Steyer 2%
    Gabbard 1%

    Looks like Warren got the debate bump and possibly dinged Bloomberg at, least stalling his momentum.

    Hmm (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 05:39:33 PM EST
    Warren possibly could end up being the anti-Sanders. It's going to be a while though before we get to that. She has room to grow where Bernie is stuck. Now she just needs to take down Bernie in the next debate and she can conceivably move ahead of him.

    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#86)
    by FlJoe on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:00:49 PM EST
    would she is more an alternative to Sanders than an antagonist. Realistically her only chance is for Bernie to crash and for her to still be there to snag his support. I would be surprised if she attacks Bernie too hard with an eye to keeping her options open with Bernie's base.

    By any political calculus that I see Mike and Pete should bring the fight to Bernie. Biden will reminiscence about Obama (not a bad strategy for him) and Amy should just stay out of the way.

    Warren will have the option of staying above the fray and play the sensible one on stage.  

    Parent

    I thought Warren sounded downright (5.00 / 4) (#92)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 09:28:12 PM EST
    "presidential" in an extended interview this evening on NPR's Latino USA. Reasonable, knowledgable, candid, and progressive.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#90)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 23, 2020 at 07:47:38 PM EST
    after his 60 minutes interview tonight he may well crash and burn. He praises Castro and says he doesn't know how much healthcare is going to cost. Not like he hasn't said these things before but I don't think they've been broadcast nationwide before.

    Parent
    Amy should (none / 0) (#99)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 08:51:40 AM EST
    just stay out.

    Parent
    Amy is (none / 0) (#144)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 04:45:32 PM EST
    there to block Bernie in MN. She will be out after Super Tuesday.

    Parent
    Works (none / 0) (#145)
    by FlJoe on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 04:47:41 PM EST
    for me

    Parent
    Yeah, they're clearly ... (none / 0) (#149)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 05:50:37 PM EST
    expecting a contested convention.

    This is a "favorite son" strategy.

    It gives her state more power for negotiating.

    Parent

    So, who gets it? (none / 0) (#153)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 07:26:40 PM EST
    Biden?

    Parent
    Buh-bye, Florida (none / 0) (#98)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 08:46:38 AM EST
    Bernie Sanders said 'it's unfair to simply say everything is bad' about Fidel Castro's Cuba.

    One of Sanders opponents better lean in hard on this on Tuesday's debate.

    This is close to disqualifying.

    If it's not a busy and memorable night (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 09:23:18 AM EST
    None of them deserve to win and we deserve to be just as f'ed as we will be.

    It's not just Cuba.  There's hours of video of Sanders on Cuba, on Russia.

    And there is this

    Bernie sanders got so close to running a primary challenge to President Barack Obama that Senator Harry Reid had to intervene to stop him

    That has been extensively reported and I have never heard it mentioned by any of them.  Granted I stopped listening to them a while ago.

    My point is there is so much on Sanders it would not only be stupid and irresponsible to not bring this stuff up it would be close to suicidal.

    Seriously my  only hope is the plan is to wait until everyone is watching

    Well, they are.  Time to fish or cut bait.

    Parent

    Of course (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 09:27:44 AM EST
    I'm referring to tomorrow's debate

    Parent
    Bernie is an okay guy ... (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 09:39:07 AM EST
    and he's good for the party in many ways.

    But his opponents have to destroy him to save the party and the country.

    Because everything they avoid doing now will be done to him (times a million) by the GOP in the general election if he's heading the ticket.

    Parent

    All that being said (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:00:27 AM EST
    They were wetting their pants because Pete dared to consider what nominating Sanders might bring the other night.

    Can you f'ing imagine what it would be like if what we want happens and Sanders is really confronted?

    Twitter would break

    Parent

    Here we go (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 01:03:58 PM EST
    Bloomberg Prepares Media Onslaught Against Sanders

    February 24, 2020 at 1:58 pm EST By Taegan Goddard 3 Comments

    "Mike Bloomberg's presidential campaign plans to unleash its cash-flush media operation against Bernie Sanders in the wake of the Vermont senator's resounding victory in the Nevada caucuses," CNBC reports.

    "The campaign plans a multipronged attack, including the publication of opposition research on Sanders, these people said. It will also push out digital attack ads focused on Sanders' record."

    "The attacks on Sanders, who has accused Bloomberg of trying to buy the Democratic nomination, will also attempt to highlight negative aspects of his record on race relations both as a congressman and senator, the sources said. This comes after Sanders, now seen as the Democratic front-runner, has taken aim at Bloomberg for his support of a policing policy known as stop-and-frisk that often targeted black and Latino people."



    Parent
    Not suprised (none / 0) (#146)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 04:47:42 PM EST
    I follow one of Bloomberg's campaign operatives on twitter and he started dumping this morning first of all about the rape essay. I'm sure there is a boatload more to come.

    Parent
    Oh, you should (none / 0) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:44:16 AM EST
    see the new defense of Bernie. It's called Obama was a communist too.

    Parent
    Truly (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 09:52:28 AM EST
    Bloomberg is now running ads against Bernie's record on guns. His campaign is promoting Bernie's rape essay. I expect the rape essay is a trap for Warren if she doesn't go after Bernie for that after she spent the last debate going after Bloomberg for NDAs. Bernie's oppo is like you say miles long.

    Parent
    That rape essay ... (none / 0) (#110)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:00:14 AM EST
    that's so weird and creepy.

    And badly written.

    :O

    Parent

    The argument I've been hearing is that (none / 0) (#112)
    by vml68 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:07:36 AM EST
    if all of Bernie's stuff is thrown at him now and it sinks him in the primary, then he would never make it in the general.
    But, if he wins the nomination despite all the oppo research being made public, then he has a good chance in the general because the repubs won't have anything new to throw at him.

    Yesterday, I found myself in the very unfamiliar/uncomfortable position of trying to convince someone (person is an any dem except Brnie) to vote for Bernie if he wins the nomination. What is the world coming to!

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:22:32 AM EST
    That is the idea I think.  And it's a good one.  If all the real stuff we know about is at least discussed that one less worry in the watches of the night.  Course in real life the "problem" will be something completely made up like emails.

    But yeah, I agree if he has to be nominee it's all coming out, better sooner than later.

    An earlier start would have been better.  There's a lot to cover.

    It's funny, most of my democrat friends are very open to Bernie.   Enthusiastic even.  Blue is rare enough around here that it's usually deep or why bother.

    Parent

    I've said before that everytime I talk myself (none / 0) (#121)
    by vml68 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:52:04 AM EST
    into supporting Bernie if he is the nominee, he or one of his supporters makes me rethink my position.
    I just read this gem...
    Bernie Sanders-backer Susan Sarandon says: 'We're not looking to keep Nancy Pelosi'

    I seriously just f*ck1ng hate these people.
    After her, 'Hillary is more dangerous than Donald Tr*mp' and, 'Trump would be more likely to usher in "the revolution" than Hillary Clinton' comments, Bernie should have cut her loose. That she is back, along with the rest of the 'burn down the party' crowd, says a lot about Bernie and the kind of people he will surround himself with, if he wins.

    Parent

    Susan Sarandon has become a self-parody ... (none / 0) (#151)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 06:16:55 PM EST
    ... of the stereotypical "limousine liberal." Now, it's a free country and she can say whatever she wants about Nancy Pelosi, but we also don't have to pay much if any attention to her Beverly Hills diva-like rants.

    Those Hollywood stars who truly desire to make a real difference in other people's lives ought to consider the selfless example of the late Elizabeth Taylor, who -- at considerable professional risk -- leveraged her own celebrity on behalf of AIDS victims at a time when it was neither the trendy nor popular thing to do.

    Rather than merely call attention to herself for its own sake, Dame Taylor co-founded the American Foundation for AIDS Research (amfAR) with Dr. Mathilde Krim and others in 1985, and then used her iconic star power as its founding International Chairman to both elevate the public's consciousness about AIDS victims and raise tens of millions of dollars in much-needed research funding.

    In answering history's call, Dame Taylor transcended her own movie stardom to become a true hero to a then-besieged LGBTQ community when they really needed a champion. Further, she's since inspired other celebrities like Sharon Stone to do likewise in the wake of her passing. By contrast, what will Susan Sarandon ever be remembered for, that is, outside of her professional career as an actress?

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Sarandon's performance (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 07:49:57 PM EST
    in Louis Malle's 1980 romantic/crime film, "Atlantic City," playing against an aging Burt Lancaster, was splendid. Unforgettable. (Maybe better even than "Thelma & Louise" or "Dead Man Walking.") That's enough of a legacy. I also appreciate her speaking out against the Iraq War,  though, and supporting Cindy Sheehan.

    Parent
    ... and in support of Cindy Sheehan. In a number of cases, these were people with a lot more on the line than a celebrity dilettante.

    As far as Ms. Sarandon's performance in "Atlantic City" is concerned, I concur. That was one of several truly great films which were overlooked for the 1980 Academy Awards' Best Picture statuette in favor of the interminable and snooze-inducing "Chariots of Fire."

    ;-D

    Parent

    There (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:46:27 AM EST
    will still be new stuff to throw at him. I expect him to be under criminal investigation for loan fraud regarding the failure of Burlington College.

    However I think if all this oppo does not collapse his campaign it would at least give me somewhat more confidence about him being the nominee.

    Parent

    How do you square this (none / 0) (#100)
    by jmacWA on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 09:03:14 AM EST
    This is close to disqualifying.

    with all of the Puerto Ricans living in FL?

    I agree that percentage wise Cubans have a slight advantage 29% - 20%, but that hardly seems disqualifying to me... and I would think that some of the younger Cuban population is not nearly as virulently anti-Castro as their elders.

    Parent

    Not just Cubans, there is also quite a large (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by vml68 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 09:57:24 AM EST
    population of Venezuelans in SE FL. The belief is that they will absolutely not vote for Sanders.

    Parent
    I Haven't Watched the Program Yet, (none / 0) (#101)
    by RickyJim on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 09:08:20 AM EST
    but from your link, I read that Sanders praised Castro's work on literacy and healthcare for Cubans and denounced his infractions of civil liberties.  Do you disagree about that?  Yes I know that politics is practiced by distorting and exaggerating what one's opponents say.

    Parent
    Actually no (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 09:49:24 AM EST
    what Sanders did is make a vague reference to being against the authoritarianism of Castro and directly praised Castro for people being able to read which also is a lie.

    Parent
    I know this means ... (none / 0) (#102)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 09:17:26 AM EST
    that's 29 electoral votes a Sanders general election campaign is NEVER winning.

    Florida is over, if he's heading the ticket.

    Parent

    Florida is unlikely (none / 0) (#115)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:24:22 AM EST
    to go blue with any of the Democratic candidates as standard bearer.  Obama was able to win Florida with strong AA turnout, but Andrew Gilliam was unable to win the governorship.  A Republican governor and state legislature make a Democratic win very difficult.

    However, Sanders has now made it difficult for Democratic  House members, such as Donna Shalala, to survive.

    Sanders, as an experienced politician, should have realized that nuance and context are not antidotes to Republican disinformation.  He was given the opportunity to explain or clarify one of his vintage statements, and he might have said something along the lines .. that Castro's used certain social benefits to control his despotic, authoritative regime. And, too, that there should be more concern for Trump's love for live despots like the the Bone saw prince, Putin, and Kim than Bernie's historic review of a dead one like Fidel.

    Parent

    Trump only won it by about 110K ... (none / 0) (#117)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:32:21 AM EST
    votes.  Gillum only lost by about 35K.

    It's winnable for other Dems.

    Biden knows that state well.  He campaigned there heavily for Obama '08.

    He knows how to work those different Florida communities.

    Parent

    Sanders (none / 0) (#122)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 10:52:07 AM EST
    has never run a tough race in his entire career. He has no idea how to deal with the press or the GOP or really anything. He probably could have said this in Vermont and they would have laughed it off. He has no idea how poorly this kind of thing plays in the rest of the country.

    Parent
    You are forgetting that the referendum (none / 0) (#125)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 12:11:50 PM EST
    and lawsuit that ended mass felon disenfranchisement in Florida last year may add a million or more new Democratic voters to the rolls.

    Parent
    That Republican administration ... (none / 0) (#128)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 12:37:04 PM EST
    passed a law basically overturning it.

    That new law is likely to be stuck down.  But not till long after November.

    So, no, we're not getting those voters.

    Parent

    Actually, not so, it seems. The new law (none / 0) (#133)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 12:50:47 PM EST
    which gutted the referendum has been preliminarily enjoined by a federal court, and the injunction was upheld on appeal last week (by the rather conservative Eleventh Circuit). A trial that would lead to a final injunction begins this week, as I understand it. My understanding is that it is too late for the primary, but not for November.  

    Parent
    No, Desantis has asked for ... (none / 0) (#134)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 12:59:39 PM EST
    a hearing in front of the full court.  And then it will likely make it back to to USSC.  And none of that will get done before November.

    Sorry.  We ain't getting those voters this cycle.

    Parent

    Asking for those additional extraordinary steps (none / 0) (#135)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 01:02:58 PM EST
    in an appeal is not the same as getting them, and there is no automatic stay of proceedings in the district court in the meanwhile. But we shall see. I prefer to be hopeful.

    Parent
    Florida is GOP land right now ... (none / 0) (#139)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 01:35:44 PM EST
    so, I'm certain he'll get what he wants.

    Parent
    ... Li'l Marco Rubio to the U.S. Senate, a lazy and self-aggrandizing con artist who publicly claimed in campaign ads to be the son of refugees from Castro's Cuba, even though they had actually emigrated to the U.S. years before Castro came to power, I find it very had to take that state's politics seriously -- because it's obvious to me that most of its citizens don't.

    I can only hope that one of the days, Floridians will finally wake up and realize that when you elect people to public office who are duplicitous, nasty, ignorant and stupid, you tend to get corresponding results.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Sanders Supporters Can Be So Strange (none / 0) (#129)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 12:41:27 PM EST
    I've encountered a few in the last few weeks who made variations on this statement:

    "I'm more interested in beating the DNC than beating Trump."

    I tried to asking questions to see if they actually knew what the DNC was.  Or why they thought it needed to be "beaten".

    I could follow much of what they said.  Strange conspiracy theories that didn't make much sense.

    It sounded a like people who used to rail on about the Trilateral Commission.

    If Sanders supporters don't even want him to win.  That's going to make this whole thing even harder.

    To be fair (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 01:12:43 PM EST
    I have admitted and do in fact admit next to beating Trump there is little I would love more than beating the Bernie Bros.

    I make no apologies

    Parent

    Oh, I forgot my favorite comment ... (none / 0) (#132)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 12:49:57 PM EST
    one of these people made:

    "Nixon was so concerned about the DNC, he ordered a break-in of their headquarters. Maybe he was onto something?"

    You can't make this stuff up.

    Parent

    "Attention, K-Mart shoppers!" (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 04:22:28 PM EST
    "This week only, we're running a 'Blue-Light Special' on ethical compasses. Buy yours today at half-off, and we'll throw in a free moral backbone!"

    :-(

    Parent

    These people (none / 0) (#147)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 04:53:30 PM EST
    are horseshoe magats. Both of them are like pod people. I had an MFA discussion with one of them the other day and all she could do was scream talking points. She couldn't answer questions. No critical thinking involved. She said MFA is like Switzerland and when I pointed out to her that it was not she just spewed more talking points.

    Parent
    Yeah, that's my problem as well ... (none / 0) (#150)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 05:54:31 PM EST
    you can't engage them.

    They just say weird things.

    Often close to non sequiturs.

    Parent

    No kidding (none / 0) (#154)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 07:29:53 PM EST
    I wrote on Big Orange that I was concerned about such a massive change.  The response was to say it was easy peasy.  Medicare is easy, so will be Medicare for All. All done.

    What do Dems running for Congress do?  Say they support Bernie as President, assuming he gets the nomination, but vote against MFA?  And otherwise vote against some of his other programs?

    Parent

    Judging (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 08:16:05 PM EST
    by what has happened so far if Bernie is the nominee the entire party is going to turn their backs on him  and who knows who will show up at the convention and then after Bernie goes down in flames in the general election we are going to have to rebuild the party and fight Trump at the same time. If Bernie had any love of the country he would drop out. He is completely toxic and his supporters are toxic.

    Bernie Bro Van Jones said for Bernie to earn the support of the party he is going to have prove to them that he is not McGovern. So far he has done nothing but prove he is McGovern. That 60 minutes interview was nothing short of disastrous. Even Van didn't look too hopeful for Bernie.

    Parent

    I don't know if (none / 0) (#162)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 24, 2020 at 09:45:20 PM EST
    Bloomberg is actually going to need much of that oppo. Bernie is now saying that communist China has lifted people out of poverty and he's doubling down on his support for Castro. He is starting to become a comic book character.

    Final results (none / 0) (#164)
    by ragebot on Tue Feb 25, 2020 at 12:51:24 AM EST
    from NV

    I still can't figure out formatting.

    Bernie Sanders  24    6,788    46.84%
    Joe Biden        9    2,927    20.2%
    Pete Buttigieg   3    2,073    14.31%

    Biden's New Sanders Attack Ad (none / 0) (#165)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Feb 25, 2020 at 02:38:46 AM EST
    It covers the issue of Bernie wanting to primary Obama.

    You can watch it here.

    Biden (none / 0) (#167)
    by NoSides on Tue Feb 25, 2020 at 02:59:09 PM EST
    yesterday announced in South Carolina, "My name is Joe Biden. I'm a Democratic candidate for the United States Senate. Look me over, if you like what you see, help out. If not, vote for the other Biden."

    That is a literal quote.

    He's running for the Senate.
    He might just make it.
    Who the "other Biden" is is anybody's guess.

    I know this isn't really funny...
    But he really shouldn't be attacking Sanders or anybody.

    Parent