Monday Open Thread

I really will be back blogging soon. The TL kid and his wife had their second daughter last week -- she is the second TL grandkid. Here is big sister Karter meeting Reece:

And here is newborn Reece just a few hours old:

Last night I watched Netflix's "original series" The Chosen One. It's a remake of a Spanish series I wrote about here in 2015 called, "El Nino Santo" aka "The Holy Child". [More...]

Nino Santo[] is a very strange drama that pits young doctors against a religious cult figure in the jungle, where the doctors end up questioning whether science is more powerful than faith. It's based on the real legend of Niño Fidencio, a 1920's faith healer who never made it to sainthood, but is considered one by many anyway. It just started last week, and only airs on Sunday nights. It has subtitles.

Netflix hired the writers of Nino Santo to do the script for The Chosen One, and they call it an "adaptation". It's also condensed, and the actors are different and a little bit less authentic, so if you like the Netflix version, try to find the original El Nino Santo that aired on Unimas -- it packs a much bigger wallop. Also, if you watch the Netflix series, and it's in English, go into your audio settings and choose the original Portuguese for the audio with English subtitles. The voices are so much more authentic.

If you have some news topics you'd like to see me write about when I am back to blogging, please put them in comments. I have really been out of touch the past month.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Democrats Debate in Houston | Trump's Ukranian Mess >
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    Congratulations Jeralyn.. (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by desertswine on Tue Sep 17, 2019 at 01:53:12 AM EST
    What a deal!

    Adorable! (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 18, 2019 at 09:35:40 AM EST
    Congratulations, Grandma!

    ... with GOP Gov. Mike Dunleavy is on the verge of outright political rebellion. In the wake of his recent failed attempt to impose a 40% funding cut to higher education, which would have compelled the University of Alaska system to immediately slash academic programs and classes this semester, comes word that he's instead doubled the cost of elder care at the state-run Pioneer Homes (there are six across the state) from $6,800 / mo. to $13,600 / mo., which would be a devastating blow to older adults on fixed incomes.

    Gov. Dunleavy's slash-and-burn approach to state budgeting has led residents to initiate a serious effort to recall him from office only eight months after he first took the oath. As of this date, proponents have gathered over 50,000 signatures, a pretty impressive show of strength in a state with a population of 735,000.

    That in turn has now prompted the governor to throw under the bus State Budget Director Donna "Disaster Donna" Arduin, a right-wing ideologue who was the architect of the present budget shambles, and who was elevated to the post despite having lived in Alaska less than a month at the time of her appointment.

    Keeping an eye on developments in this growing battle is worth far more than following the public pratfalls of former Gov. Sarah Palin's family. Alaska has been pretty loyal to the Republican Party, and if residents are unhappy with the present state of affairs there, it may be a hint that citizens in other Red states may not be far behind.


    Meanwhile, in Old New Mexico.. (none / 0) (#21)
    by desertswine on Wed Sep 18, 2019 at 10:15:40 PM EST
    NM Governor Announces Plan to Make College Free for State Residents

    The new program, called the New Mexico Opportunity Scholarship, would provide 100% of tuition and fees for state residents with a high school diploma or equivalency.

    I really want to see this work.


    New Mexcio Supreme Court (none / 0) (#159)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 08:00:57 PM EST
    I just learned has mostly women justices.  I think it is 7 women and 2 men.

    Thank goodness (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 08:51:26 AM EST
    For that brilliant Middle East Peace Plan from Jared Kushner.

    Where would we be without that.

    Watching BeeBee bounce is great fun.  As is reading that if he loses he's going to jail.

    That alone probably makes for some interesting dinner conversation at the Trump house.

    Today (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 09:29:54 AM EST

    The leaders of Blue and White rejected Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's calls on Thursday to form a government led by him that would also include all his satellite parties on the Right.

    "Blue and White is the largest party," Gantz said. "We won 33 seats and Netanyahu did not succeed in winning the 61 seats for his bloc that he sought. I will build a broad and liberal government that will deliver the will of the people. We will not surrender to any dictate. The negotiations will be directed by me responsibly and with good judgment."

    MK Yair Lapid asked for patience, saying that building a government will take time and that meanwhile, there will be more attempts at political spin that should be ignored

    Ken Vogel, crack NYTimes (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 21, 2019 at 11:54:03 AM EST
    reporter.  "Joe Biden, questions remain despite overwhelming evidence he did nothing wrong".

    Today's hackery: It is out there, so I must report--what I put out there.

    As for Ken Vogel, you can take Vogel out of "Politico", but you can't take "Politico" out of Vogel".  Now, made for NYTimes.

    That's Coki's Law (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by leap on Sat Sep 21, 2019 at 05:14:01 PM EST
    in a nutshell. It's out there, everybody hears it, so whatchagonnado but report it whether it's true or not. She was awful.

    It's the world we live in (none / 0) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 21, 2019 at 12:02:31 PM EST
    True enough. (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 21, 2019 at 01:12:12 PM EST
    Anyway, Trump says "everybody read it" (referring to the whistle-blower's complaint) and they laughed at it.

    Everybody, huh.   Why not just let everybody (really everybody) read it. Let us laugh, too.  Oh, and maybe the House Intel Committee could read it.  They could use a laugh, I am sure.

    That everybody does exclude, however, the Trump-appointed IG of the Intel Community, who wasn't laughing at all.  Guess the real and only criminal here is Biden.


    Vogel and the Times (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 22, 2019 at 09:55:51 AM EST

    Are taking quite a beating for this.  Vogel refused to appear on AM Joy becuae he knew he was going to be taken to the woodshed.

    Apparently there is yet another front page story in the Times today about how Ukraine is a problem for Biden.

    Maybe this is a good time for this.


    Here (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 22, 2019 at 03:33:39 PM EST
    Yeah, (none / 0) (#121)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 21, 2019 at 04:28:01 PM EST
    apparently so. What is the solution? The GOP has the NYT so afraid to report something negative about them that they pull this kind of crap. We are going to have to figure out a way to get around this.

    From (5.00 / 3) (#136)
    by FlJoe on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 05:56:07 PM EST
    the if looks could kill file that young lady is a force of nature

    She's a revelation. (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by desertswine on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 12:43:28 AM EST
    The Trumps of the world are stealing children's futures.  I understand that she was inspired by Rosa Parks.

    ... issued in London today by the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom. In a ruling read from the bench by Lady Brenda Hale, president of the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, the justices unanimously upheld last week's finding by Scotland's Court of Session that Prime Minister Boris Johnson effectively misled Queen Elizabeth II when he formally requested that she prorogue Parliament for five weeks, so that his government could prepare the Queen's Speech. The UK Supreme Court instead found that:

    "This was not a normal prorogation in the run-up to a Queen's Speech. It prevented Parliament from carrying out its constitutional role for five out of the possible eight weeks between the end of the summer recess and exit day on 31st October. Proroguing Parliament is quite different from Parliament going into recess. While Parliament is prorogued, neither House can meet, debate or pass legislation. Neither House can debate Government policy. [...] The Court is bound to conclude, therefore, that the decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification."

    The Scottish Court had found that per the Tory government's own recorded deliberations, the Prime Minister's actual intent was to suppress parliamentary debate and action at a most critical juncture in the Brexit process, which was completely contrary to the formal reason he offered the Queen for Parliament's prorogation. And because only the Crown possesses the legal authority necessary to formally suspend or dissolve a sitting Parliament, one must not lie to Her Majesty about the true affairs of state.

    MPs will now return to session in Westminster. God Save the Queen.

    Yes, God Save the Queen. (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 04:44:33 PM EST
    And, good on Lady Brenda.

    RIP Robert Hunter (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 11:00:31 AM EST
    Wildflower seed on the sand and stone

    May the four winds blow you safely home

    There is a road... (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 09:33:26 PM EST
    There is a road, no simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night, and if you go, no one may follow, that path is for your steps alone.

    Sometimes the light's all shining on me (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 08:59:34 AM EST
    Other times, I can barely see.

    I forgot... Happy Fall (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by desertswine on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 11:24:18 PM EST
    Watching a very cool thing (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 10:58:14 AM EST
    Recorded from the Smithsonian channel.  You can watch the whole thing

    When Whales Walked. A Journey Through Deep Time

    About the evolution of 4 species.  Whales, Crocs, Birds and Elephants.

    Barr was "surprised and angry" (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 05:41:01 PM EST
    What did Barr (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Zorba on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 07:17:38 PM EST
    think it was going to be like, working for someone like Trump?
    Lie down with pigs, get up covered in pig poop.

    Barr brought (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by KeysDan on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 02:08:31 PM EST
    tons of poop to the job.  Trump is layering more coats---armor that will be needed against those bus treads.

    Happy birthday Jimmy (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 11:42:55 AM EST
    We are living proof that if you live long enough you get to say,"yeah, but they are dead.  And I'm not"


    Youge Jimmy fan (none / 0) (#177)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 12:19:30 PM EST
    Following the youge "need to be CLEAR"

    Whada coupla cuties! (none / 0) (#1)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Sep 16, 2019 at 04:58:41 PM EST

    For sure. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Mon Sep 16, 2019 at 05:46:34 PM EST
    They're very sweet (none / 0) (#3)
    by jondee on Mon Sep 16, 2019 at 10:35:45 PM EST

    Congratulations (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 17, 2019 at 06:08:34 AM EST
    Jeralyn! The pictures are so sweet. Thank you for sharing.

    I like Reece (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 17, 2019 at 07:22:22 AM EST
    The name I mean

    How cute are they? (none / 0) (#7)
    by RCBadger on Tue Sep 17, 2019 at 11:23:47 AM EST
    The cutest!!!  Congratulations, Jeralyn.

    Congrats to you and family! (none / 0) (#8)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 17, 2019 at 12:53:22 PM EST
    Such a challenging time in which this child meets this earth. I wish her, and all of yours, everything loving and sweet and prosperous. XO.

    Reece is a little beauty. (none / 0) (#9)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 17, 2019 at 01:38:47 PM EST
    And her older sister Karter ain't so bad, either.
    Congratulations, Grandma. The one thing I've discovered through my own grandchildren is that their presence in my life has renewed my sense of purpose and continuity. May yours provide a similar gift to you.


    Congratulations (none / 0) (#10)
    by NoSides on Tue Sep 17, 2019 at 05:09:35 PM EST
    on the birth of your granddaughter, Reece.

    Wishing you and your family much health and happiness.

    A good friend of 30 years (none / 0) (#11)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 17, 2019 at 10:31:55 PM EST
    died last night in San Antonio. Another friend from the same era and time period died the night before in Buenos Aires. My world got a lot smaller this week.

    That's rough (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by CST on Wed Sep 18, 2019 at 07:38:26 AM EST
    My condolences.  Hope you have some other friends and family to lean on right now.

    I'm so sorry. (none / 0) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 18, 2019 at 04:29:03 AM EST
    This is a big downside to getting older.

    I'm so sorry, (none / 0) (#16)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 18, 2019 at 09:37:00 AM EST
    Chuck.  You have my deepest sympathies.

    I'm so sorry, Chuck. (none / 0) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 18, 2019 at 01:30:38 PM EST
    May your memories of their friendship and your times together provide some measure of comfort, in the knowledge that they are with you in spirit and will always be an important part of your life.

    My condolences (none / 0) (#19)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 18, 2019 at 03:18:48 PM EST
    My oldest friend, who I knew since kindergarten, died a few weeks ago.



    Cuties (none / 0) (#13)
    by CST on Wed Sep 18, 2019 at 07:36:20 AM EST
    May the oldest always look at the youngest that way, even when the youngest is old enough to use her toys :)

    Congrats on grand-baby! (none / 0) (#20)
    by magster on Wed Sep 18, 2019 at 09:55:26 PM EST
    So, Dem counsel hero Barry Berke is a criminal defense attorney. Wonder if J knows him...

    Birth tourism (none / 0) (#22)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 07:51:38 AM EST
    There is a Chinese birth tourism house (none / 0) (#26)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 10:36:11 AM EST
    1/2 mile from my house.

    AHS1984 (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 10:07:27 AM EST
    Started yesterday.

    After my weeks long trip down the memory hole thanks to my 50th class reunion this could not be more perfectly timed.  It's all about the 80s.  Only superficially about 80s slasher movies (which I was never a fan of) but the 80s.

    Maybe it's a sign of our dark times that a show that involves so much s'more-side bloodshed can seem like light TV. Or maybe it's just the fact that after the last two seasons of American Horror Story reminded its viewers, with increasingly less subtlety, that they were already living in the darkest timeline, with or without the existence of the antichrist, that anything offering up simple gore without much psychological trauma is bubbly by comparison.

    SEASON 9
    "Camp Redwood"
    It seems like the showrunners got a note over the summer that the audience was having a hard time remembering the exact subtitle of each season, because this year's audience will never forget, at least at any point while watching the pilot, that the year, and season, is 1984. The `80s references come so hard and fast the start of the show almost reads like a sketch sending up `80s nostalgia, from the neon font introducing the cast to "Cruel Summer" playing within the first fifteen minutes.


    As a bonus the featured "computer graphics" in the intro could almost be taken from my first demo reels.

    This whistleblower thing (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 05:11:12 PM EST
    The (none / 0) (#28)
    by FlJoe on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 05:38:52 PM EST
    news happens so fast it's hard to comment on it, but this seems big...still give 50/50 it will mostly forgotten this time next week.

    Maybe (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 06:05:40 PM EST

    Barry R McCaffrey

     SHEER SPECULATION. Is it possible that the WHISTLEBLOWER issue was Trump discussing with Putin handing over our former US Ambassador to Moscow Mike McFaul to Russian authorities?

    I'm pretty sure the democrats, even Her Majesty, is starting to understand that democrat voters are really f'ing sock and tired of being sick and tired if the spineless feckless helpless house democrats and their inability to pound sand.

    This could be different.


    It sure seems (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 06:22:06 PM EST
    This is so strange unprecedented and clearly illegal it seems very desperate.  It seems this must be really really bad.

    And most talking heads seem to think eventually we will know.

    If you read that C&L link there are clearly legal opinions democrats have in this particular case they have not had before.  IMO they better f'ing grab them and hold on tight.  Because what they have done so far is nothing short of a disgrace.  Month after month of cowardly disgraceful ass covering does not generally lead to great election results.


    Legal OPTIONS (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 06:24:36 PM EST
    So many possibilities (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 07:02:31 PM EST

    Laura Rozen
    House comm chairs say will scrutinise July 25 call btw Trump & Zelensky during which Trump allegedly told Z to reopen Biden investigation 2/

    NYT (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by FlJoe on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 07:13:55 PM EST
    is reporting it's Ukraine. I bet it's an arms for dirt scenario, remember tRump was delaying the arms deal until a week ago when the WH got wind the sht was about to hit the fan.

    OOp (none / 0) (#36)
    by FlJoe on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 07:55:09 PM EST
    It's Wash post reporting that.

    Guliani is spouting out total BS on CNN right now, it's breathtaking.


    Maybe I'm old fashioned (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 08:09:53 PM EST
    But if it becomes news that Trump used 250 million in US military aid to try to blackmail a foreign leader into opening a bogus investigation into his political opponents and then did this ridiculous song and dance to cover it up, it might get some attention.

    Because I think we are past (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 08:25:37 PM EST
    "It was a joke"

    Tho that could still be a fall back.


    Yes, and the (none / 0) (#39)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 09:33:21 PM EST
    complaint was reported by the IG to be of wrongdoing, not a policy difference... a serious matter of wrongdoing that may well be a high crime and misdemeanor.  Adam Schiff needs to be aggressive and act with dispatch so as to get the facts to Chairman Nadler.  And, Speaker Pelosi needs to use all her powers, including those of the purse to assist Schiff.  Trump will make an example of this whistleblower to deter any followers.

    Wow (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 06:46:14 AM EST
    I just saw the Rudy performance

    Just wow


    Rudy unplugged (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 07:21:23 AM EST
    Worth watching what was moments ago described as "drunk uncle who needs to be moved off to hospice"

    Rudy on CNN last night


    This (arms for dirt) (none / 0) (#40)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 09:44:37 PM EST
    and more...much more is my bet.

    Very interesting timing here (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 07:13:28 AM EST
    When I posted that comment (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 07:09:44 PM EST
    That's a paywall but (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 07:12:59 PM EST

    More information about the whistleblower scandal was revealed Thursday evening in a new bombshell report in The Washington Post.

    "A whistleblower complaint about President Trump made by an intelligence official centers on Ukraine, according to two people familiar with the matter, which has set off a struggle between Congress and the executive branch," the newspaper reported. "The complaint involved communications with a foreign leader and a "promise" that Trump made, which was so alarming that a U.S. intelligence official who had worked at the White House went to the inspector general of the intelligence community, two former U.S. officials said."

    Trump spoke by phone with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky two and a half weeks before the complaint was filed.

    "That call is already under investigation by House Democrats who are examining whether Trump and his attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani sought to manipulate the Ukrainian government into helping Trump's reelection campaign," The Post noted. "Lawmakers have demanded a full transcript and a list of participants on the call."

    Want some good news? (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 07:15:11 AM EST
    If this really blows up we might get rid of Trump AND Barr.

    Unless Democrats take a stand (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by CST on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 09:04:02 AM EST
    This isn't going anywhere. Surprised Biden is silent. But then he still thinks he can work with Republicans.   If he ever figures it out he would probably win the nomination.   He might anyway but IMO staying silent here comes with risks.  The only thing he's got going for him is electability. If Dems let this slide and Trump successfully colluded with the Ukraine to influence the election against Biden that goes directly against his strength.

    It's past time for Dems to stand up.


    Armando (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 09:13:22 AM EST
    tweeted that this was Biden's chance to show mettle. He's apparently failing that test.

    All of these things make me miss Hillary who called Trump Putin's puppet to his face on national TV.


    (Sigh!) How exactly is ... (none / 0) (#78)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:00:56 PM EST
    ... Joe Biden "failing that test" only three days into the scandal, particularly when the public chatter regarding the whistleblower complaint is almost entirely speculative?

    Geez, I mean, nobody -- save perhaps for Trump's demented AG Bill Barr -- even knows for certain what the contents of that complaint is actually about. It would be nice if cooler heads exercised a little caution here, until we at least have an idea as to the size and scope of this issue.

    If we're seeking informed analysis and commentary, it's probably best that we avoid the hyperbolic chamber of funhouse mirrors and whoopie cushions that is Twitter.



    Well this requires us all to ignore (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by CST on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:15:32 PM EST
    Rudy Giuliani's performance last night and I for one am not willing to ignore the fact that he admitted that Trump attempted to collude with/bribe Ukraine to influence the upcoming election on national television.

    No doubt, Giuliani's manic performance ... (none / 0) (#93)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:56:56 PM EST
    ... on Cuomo's show last night raises eyebrows. I, for one, certainly want to get to the bottom of this whole story. But as of this writing, it would be irresponsible for any of us to opine about the breadth and scope of this potential scandal absent further information. It serves no useful purpose to envelop ourselves in our own speculative dust clouds. And speaking for myself only, until we know for sure what Trump actually said to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, I'm going to have to leave it at that, and I'm content to wait until the other shoe drops.

    Who (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by FlJoe on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:16:42 PM EST
    cares what the chatter says, tRump and his ghoul directly accused Biden of massive corruption.

    Going into a let's wait and see defensive crouch is insane.

    There is no new issue here, it's corruption from top to bottom,  waiting for "clarity" on this latest transgression is a fool's errand IMO.


    To quote Napoleon Bonaparte: (none / 0) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 05:15:55 PM EST
    "Ne jamais interférer avec un ennemi dans le processus de se détruire." ("Never interfere with an enemy in the process of destroying himself.")

    There is really nothing that you and I can say at this point that will make any difference in the tone or direction of the national conversation. I will only note that as of this writing, given what White House officials are now admitting, they know that this is about to blow up on them, and they are desperately trying to get ahead of the story. They're not likely to succeed.

    So, go make some popcorn, sit down in a comfortable lounge chair, and then enjoy the Trumpenführer Schittshow & Schadenfreude Review.



    The (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by FlJoe on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 07:05:25 PM EST
    problem being, that as tRump destroys himself he is also destroying our country.

    Let's please not be so hyperbolic. (none / 0) (#123)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 21, 2019 at 04:48:50 PM EST
    These troubling times call for sober assessment and rational thought on our part. The alarm has been sounded. We're not going to save the country by subsequently screaming down the halls.

    If they don't take a stand (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 09:22:09 AM EST
    On this

    They do not deserve to govern.

    We need to start the over.

    I'm serious.  If this unfolds as it appears and they do nothing what good are they?

    Rick Wilson
    We're in new territory, and this is clearly the only way to move this past the WH/Barr/DNI obstruction.
    Quote Tweet

    David Jolly
     · 2h
    An impeachment article should be pretty easy to draw up this morning.

    Even easier to vote on.

    Pass a resolution inquiry by the full House today and subpoena the whistleblower. If WH claims privilege, ask for emergency hearing in federal court on the basis of national security

    That's it.


    Thing is (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 09:39:18 AM EST
    These guys are republicans.  Or were.  They are explaining what republicans would do.

    Of course (none / 0) (#57)
    by CST on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 10:16:53 AM EST
    Republicans would have impeached 100x by now, with the full support of the media.

    As far as Biden (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 09:24:01 AM EST
    If you are waiting for him get comfortable

    I thought one of the really bad things about this is it might actually help Biden get the nomination even if he does nothing.


    It could go either way (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by CST on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 10:15:57 AM EST
    It could help him because it pits him against Trump and people hate Trump.  But if people start to think he's vulnerable on this it goes directly against his only argument for the presidency - electability. His silence is pretty loud right now.

    Agreed (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 12:48:16 PM EST
    I have (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 10:22:43 AM EST
    thought the same thing but perhaps Biden's silence seems to point the other way.

    This is not the (none / 0) (#61)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 11:16:57 AM EST
    time for Biden to say anything.  He would be wise to remain silent for now.  Indeed, Trump would love to distract with a political engagement.  And, the media would be in high bothsiderism gear.

    No, this is a fight for the Constitutional relevance and responsibility of Congress.  Speaker Pelosi's strategy to move on impeachment only after a public groundswell is no longer viable, if it ever was.   This is her fight primarily.  The Democratic primary candidates should play a supportive roll to the Congressional challenge.


    So nothing is going to happen (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by CST on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 11:55:22 AM EST
    And another day will pass without Democrats being seen standing up for themselves for once.

    Well, let's (none / 0) (#63)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 12:34:45 PM EST
    hope that is not the case.  My point is that it is unwise for Biden to be the lead.  As Professor Tribe says, this is treachery, if not treason. So, the complaint needs to stay within the findings of the Inspector General--wrongdoing of urgent concern. And, Trump and Barr are now unlawfully interceding in the whistle-blower statute's procedure.

    If the complaint does involve the Ukraine and dirt for guns, it would be easy for some to discount the wrongdoing as merely political op gathering on Biden, when it is, if as alleged, impeachable (and  prosecutable, should we not have a corrupt AG).


    No reason for him to lead (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 12:47:39 PM EST
    But I don't see how he avoids speaking to this.  If he dies it looks like he is avoiding it.  He looks guilty.  IMO

    Something.  Maybe one heavily covered expertly delivered speech.  


    Not sure about that. (none / 0) (#67)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 01:26:26 PM EST
    This is about Trump, not Biden.  Trump is vying for a change in conversation, he should not get one.  While Biden is not the preference of many Democratic primary voters, including me, this is not a time for that discussion.  

    Well, it certainly explains President (none / 0) (#72)
    by desertswine on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 02:33:54 PM EST
    Plump's feud with the Intelligence agencies.  He's a traitor.

    Yes, (none / 0) (#73)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 03:07:47 PM EST
    and they know it.  The FBI, too.   It was the FBI that took the previously unheard of step of starting a counter-intelligence investigation of the president of the US.  The outcome of that investigation has not been made public.  Perhaps the investigators are hung up on whether Trump is a Russian agent or Russian asset.

    The Nicole Wallace show (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 03:36:32 PM EST
    Was very good today.  All on this subject.  Many interesting bits.  One was Frank Figliuzzi saying the AG can not prevent a whistle blower going to the FBI.

    Heilemann made a great point that was exactly what I was thinking.

    There was another "scoop" in the WSJ this afternoon.  More details of the call.  But most importantly they report in spite of the 8 discussions Trump had with Z on the subject there was definitely NOT a request for a quid pro quo.  

    Immediately I thought that is the administration trying to shape the story.  Which they want to be "sure he asked but thats ok."  Because they, probably correctly, think that is the line that will mean real action by the House.

    The really interesting part of that is as hard as they are trying to bury this report you sure have to think that's exactly what it says.


    That's (none / 0) (#77)
    by FlJoe on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 03:51:50 PM EST
    the spin I'm seeing, just garden variety collusion, nothing to see here. Besides Biden is the real crook here.

    The sad part is the entire Republican party and at least half of the media will buy it.


    Here (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:09:18 PM EST

    The whistleblower at the heart of President Donald Trump's scandal involving Ukraine and Rudy Giuliani may need to call the FBI and report a crime, a former top official at the Bureau explained on MSNBC on Friday.

    Frank Figliuzzi, the former assistant director for counterintelligence at the FBI, was interviewed by MSNBC's Nicolle Wallace on Friday shortly after The Wall Street Journal published a bombshell report that Trump personally pressured Volodymyr Zelensky eight times to work with Giuliani for oppo research on Joe Biden's son, Hunter.

    "Where do I come down on this? The whistleblower may need to report this to the FBI," he said. "Barr can't stop a private citizen from going to the FBI and reporting a crime."

    Yes, and it looks (none / 0) (#95)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 05:14:49 PM EST
    like the Democrats are being manipulated by Trump to throw Biden overboard.  He knows Democrats have differing preferences in the primary, and this is a way to kneecap his greatest threat, based on present polling.

    Democrats can express their preferences at a later point.  But, this is what was pulled on Hillary--she had that child ring in the basement of pizza parlor, and then their was that shady Uranium One deal.  And, Democrats who preferred another candidate latched on to it, in the interest of their favorite candidate. Crooked Hillary, then; Crooked Biden, now.

    However, this is about Trump. Trump attempting to extort a foreign government to get dirt on his political opponent. An unlawful act.

     And, holding up needed arms funding to an ally under attack by a hostile adversary for his own election purposes is treachery if not treason, in that his actions were not in the interest of the US, but for him.

     As for the quid part, we know that the authorized funding was held up, until just recently, when Trump knew what was going to hit.

    This is the 2016 Trump playbook, with some modifications: Collusion with a foreign government for his campaign's benefit and obstruction to cover it all up.  There are plenty of reasons for Democrats not to support Biden, but aiding and abetting Trump's criminality and con jobs are not among them.


    All I have to say (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 05:58:46 PM EST
    is whatever it is, and it could be nothing, needs to come out so the voters can decide if it is a problem or not.

    If the whole pizza parlor thing had been reported before the election it would have been completely defused instead of allowing it to simmer underground and mushroom.

    And yes, it is about Trump's criminality not people losing faith in institutions which Biden made in his statement.


    So, there were whistle BLOWERS (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 07:58:40 AM EST

    Donald J. Trump

     The Radical Left Democrats and their Fake News Media partners, headed up again by Little Adam Schiff, and batting Zero for 21 against me, are at it again! They think I may have had a "dicey" conversation with a certain foreign leader based on a "highly partisan" whistleblowers..

    Had a wild thought (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 08:48:08 AM EST
    This is reported

    Ever since Schiff sent this subpoena, this mystery has been at the top of the news. The daily drip has revealed that the whistleblower was someone high up in the administration connected to the intelligence community,

    We know Coats resigned right after this phone call.

    What if the whistle blower is Dan Coats?


    So (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 09:37:14 AM EST
    Supposedly it was a staffer at the NSC.

    but it would be great.


    Coats and (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 10:26:10 AM EST
    Gordon are believed to be backing up the whistle blower in the press. So it seems that it is not either one of them who are the actual whistle blower but someone who probably worked under them at DNI.

    You may be right. (none / 0) (#99)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 05:36:41 PM EST
    Early reports in the Washington Post spoke of two former intelligence officials as their sources. When I heard that, I immediately thought of now-former DNI Dan Coats and his now-former deputy, Sue Gordon. Both stepped down from their posts effective August 15.

    Getting rid (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 08:47:02 AM EST
    of both Barr and Trump would be a step in the right direction but we'd still be stuck with the odious Pence.

    I'll take it (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 08:48:45 AM EST
    I think most of (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 08:50:57 AM EST
    us would. Then Trump can face charges in NY for fraud and whatever else he's done. Maybe even Barr can be charged for something. At least he can be disbarred.

    Curiouser and curiouser. (none / 0) (#60)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 10:46:05 AM EST
    On August 9, outgoing DNI Dan Coats interrupted a meeting Sue Gordon, Deputy DNI for over 30 years, was conducting on election security to ask her to submit her letter of resignation. Shortly afterward, Ms. Gordon did submit her resignation to VP Pence, though the document was addressed to Trump.

    Gordon's abrupt departure, with one week notice, was unusual. Trump then went on to the ill-fated nomination of Ratcliff, apparently to weaponize yet another institution, putting into place a toady.

    Adam Schiff needs to put his sternly worded tweeting aside and get going on subpoenas.

    In the New York state case seeking Trump's tax returns from his accounting firm, Barr states that Trump is not subject to the "criminal process".  Not only no indictment, but no investigations.

    This is clearly not a coincidence---this is the grand gauntlet for all that seek any type of oversight, including Trump's response to an impeachment inquiry.  The only recourse left to Congress is impeachment, with an Article crafted around stonewalling/obstruction.

    The Speaker speaks (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 01:06:45 PM EST
    "Reports of a reliable whistleblower complaint regarding the President's communications with a foreign leader raise grave, urgent concerns for our national security.  We must be sure that the President and his Administration are conducting our national security and foreign policy in the best interest of the American people, not the President's personal interest.

    "The Director of National Intelligence Inspector General, who was appointed by President Trump, has said that the complaint is both of `urgent concern and credible,' and its disclosure `relates to one of the most significant and important of the Director of National Intelligence's responsibilities to the American people.'

    "The Administration's blocking of Acting DNI Joseph Maguire from providing Congress with the whistleblower complaint violates the federal statute, which unequivocally states that the DNI `shall' provide Congress this information.  If the President has done what has been alleged, then he is stepping into a dangerous minefield with serious repercussions for his Administration and our democracy.  The President and Acting DNI's stonewalling must end immediately, and the whistleblower must be provided with every protection guaranteed by the law to defend the integrity of our government and ensure accountability and trust.

    "Chairman Adam Schiff and the Intelligence Committee are to be commended for their strong leadership to ensure Congress is provided all the information so that we can fulfill our responsibility to protect the American people and our national security.  We will continue to follow the facts and explore every possible option to ensure the American people get the truth.  We would hope that Republicans would join us in supporting the Constitution."

    Sounds like (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 01:31:35 PM EST
    the Speaker is troubled.

    Yeah (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by FlJoe on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 02:14:27 PM EST
    that's some real sternly worded sht there, that will show them.

    The response (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 02:30:16 PM EST
    Some online are calling her statement "weak," while others are disappointed with the lack of specific threats of action, and others are expressing exasperation with the Speaker not supporting impeachment

    It's going to get a lot worse


    Until she knows for certain ... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:14:25 PM EST
    ... the full scope of the matter that's before us, it's best for Speaker Pelosi to act with caution until she has more information. Words do matter, especially at that level. The last thing we needs is for House leadership to sound like CNN's Chris Cuomo and his nightly panel of braying loudmouths.

    This whistle blower (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 02:12:34 PM EST
    Has hired a high octane lawyer who specializes in whistle blower law.  Former CIA guy.

    This is pregame stuff.  But it's coming I think.  


    Biden speaks (none / 0) (#74)
    by CST on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 03:15:12 PM EST
    More or less "nothing to see here".  Uhhh there is something.   There might not be anything about you but there's something about the president.

    But he's too busy fighting against Medicare for All today because apparently that's a bigger threat than the traitor in  the white house.

    Also, just once I'd like someone to be honest that we're going to pay for this stuff during a recession by printing money, just like we paid for the tax cuts.

    Just saw a WaPo reporter (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 03:40:07 PM EST
    Saying the reason he won't talk about it is there is real bad news here for his son.  Even more interesting he said the WaPo had "more information" on this subject that they were "holding for now"

    Biden will not talk about it because he knows where that conversation would go.  This is the Washington Post.


    Hence (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by CST on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:10:16 PM EST
    My point about his electability.

    Honestly I think it's entirely reasonable for Biden to want to protect his son, especially given what's happened with his family.  But that's not something a president should be doing.


    Or if he's going to do it (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:22:04 PM EST
    He has to do it.  Biden has no idea what is coming for him.  Unbelievably.  That's just so obvious.  He wants to work across the aisle....blah blah.

    Maybe if nothing else this will b!tch slap Biden into awareness of where he is.

    Not hopeful.


    Which btw (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:26:36 PM EST
    Just shows how brilliantly evil the attack is.

    Yep (none / 0) (#113)
    by FlJoe on Sat Sep 21, 2019 at 05:53:30 AM EST
    Glad to see that the same newspaper that brought you wall-to-wall EMAILS and Clinton Foundation Clouds and Shadows stories has determined that Trump trying to extort a foreign leader into ratfucking the elections is highly disturbing for...Joe Biden:

    No matter what the truth, Biden will have a "Ukrainian problem" from now until eternity.


    Nixon breaks (5.00 / 3) (#115)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 21, 2019 at 10:29:15 AM EST
    Into Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's  office and steals his medical records.  This will put a cloud over Ellsberg's record.

    I guess (none / 0) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:24:50 PM EST
    Hunter must have done something that we do not know about? I mean that is what it sounds like.

    From (none / 0) (#87)
    by FlJoe on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:33:58 PM EST
    recent history it appears that it's nearly impossible to be involved with Ukraine and have completely clean hands.

    I thought the whole Hunter Biden issue had already been litigated by the press and not  much was found.


    I thought (none / 0) (#89)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:39:28 PM EST
    the issue had been litigated too but you may be on the right track here talking about the problems and baggage that come from working in the Ukraine. What Howdy is reporting from the WaPo though makes it sounds like there is more to the story. Biden already has quasi-Russian problems.

    It was litigated (none / 0) (#98)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 05:30:46 PM EST
    Biden (as Obama's VP) was pushing to get rid of Shokin because Shokin was NOT pursuing corruption cases.  It's the same position our allies in western Europe and the IMF were taking.  There is absolutely zero evidence Biden was doing this to help his son.  Which is not to say Republicans won't use it to muddy the waters with another false equivalency.  They will, of course.

    What Ken Vogel was saying (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 05:41:35 PM EST
    As I understood it was the questions are not necessarily what Joe Biden was doing but what Hunter Biden was doing that Joe does not want to be forced to talk about.

    Who is Times by the way (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 06:27:13 PM EST
    Not WaPo.  My bad.

    I have not paid attention (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:40:48 PM EST
    But this reporter, whose name I forget, was one of the ones reporting the afternoon scoop.

    And he sounder very ominous tones about a Hunter.  More than I've heard.  

    Maybe it was PR for clicks and eyeballs but it's sure hard to look at Biden and not think he was telling truth.

    And then of course they are "holding for now".  They want to wait until he has the nomination.


    Sounds like (none / 0) (#94)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 05:01:25 PM EST
    the "whitey tape" that never surfaced.  Remember that one?

    If it makes you feel better (none / 0) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 05:26:45 PM EST
    You can believe that.

    If you would like to hear what the reporter said, it was Ken Vogel by the way who often partners with Maggie Haberman on hatchet jobs on democrats, you can watch it here.

    I could not figure out how to link to a specific video.  It's on the list on the right titled NEWS: Trump reportedly pressed Ukraine......

    About 20 into a 34 minute clip.

    Listening to it again I would have to rephrase him saying "he had a lot more"

    You can listen to what he said if you are interested.

    Or keep thinking white tape.


    If there actually (none / 0) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 05:52:26 PM EST
    is something then it needs to be reported. I'm not sure how Biden's son having done something affects Biden's electoral chances though. However the voters need to be advised of that information when making their choices.

    Biden has one surviving son (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 06:03:15 PM EST
    Who is about to be dragged naked through the streets

    Thats how it would effect his election chances.  The last thing he wants is the personal problems of his only surviving son, which exist, to become an issue in this election.

    But it's going to be.  IMO he has to face that and deal with it or quit.


    If it comes out, (none / 0) (#109)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 08:50:17 PM EST
    it comes out.

    But just speculation now.  Nothing to do until something concrete is reported.


    That is irresponsible speculation ... (none / 0) (#91)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:43:09 PM EST
    ... on the part of that WaPo reporter. The media's job is to report the news, not create it out of whole cloth. There is absolutely no evidence that Hunter Biden ever committed any wrongdoing while serving as a member of the board of directors for Burisma Holdings, nor is there anything to suggest that the elder Biden pressured the Ukrainian government to back off any investigation of his son. In fact, there is no evidence that his son was ever investigated, period.

    The worst that can be said is that Hunter should have been far more mindful of his father's position as vice president when he agreed to join the board, given that Joe Biden was running point for the Obama administration on Ukraine at the time. His role at Burisma created the appearance of a potential conflict of interest. Most contemporary accounts for that period note the vice president's actual surprise when he first learned of his son's directorship with Burisma from the U.S. media.



    It wasn't speculation Donald (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:49:54 PM EST
    He was explaining what the post has already reported about Hunter Biden and SAYING they have a lot more.

    There was nothing speculative about it.


    "A lot more" (none / 0) (#110)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 08:52:00 PM EST
    can mean anything.

    It is speculative for us to guess without any evidence.


    I stand by what I said, Cap'n. (none / 0) (#122)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 21, 2019 at 04:40:12 PM EST
    There is no evidence that Hunter Biden or his father ever did anything wrong here. It is, however, highly unethical and irresponsible for any journalist or newspaper to imply otherwise by shading context. Their job to report the facts, not pander to right-wing clickbait.

    So Biden (none / 0) (#88)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 04:36:08 PM EST
    admonishes Trump to "act like a president". Has he not been paying attention the last 3 years? It is not going to happen.

    This is shades of Obama trying to be "the adult in the room". Didn't work then and is not gonna work now.

    Hillary had the right response to all this. All Biden had to do is repeat what she said. This is so frustrating.

    Here is (none / 0) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 06:03:58 PM EST
    a link to a clip from Vogel regarding Biden's son.

    He seems to imply that Hunter Biden working for an oligarch's oil company is a problem.

    I posted a link above (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 06:12:43 PM EST
    Hunter Biden has a few problems


    In speeches, Biden rarely talks about Hunter. But news outlets on the right and mainstream media organizations, including the Times, have homed in on him, reprising old controversies over Hunter's work for a bank, for a lobbying firm, and for a hedge fund, and scrutinizing his business dealings in China and Ukraine.

    There is little question that Hunter's proximity to power shaped the arc of his career, and that, as the former aide told me, "Hunter is super rich terrain." But Donald J. Trump and some of his allies, in their eagerness to undermine Biden's candidacy, and possibly to deflect attention from their own ethical lapses, have gone to extreme lengths, promoting, without evidence, the dubious narrative that Biden used the office of the Vice-President to advance and protect his son's interests.

    At the same time, the gossip pages have seized on Hunter's tumultuous private life. He has struggled for decades with alcohol addiction and drug abuse; he went through an acrimonious divorce from his first wife, Kathleen Buhle Biden; and he had a subsequent relationship with Beau's widow, Hallie. He was recently sued for child support by an Arkansas woman, Lunden Alexis Roberts, who claims that he is the father of her child. (Hunter has denied having sexual relations with Roberts.)

    On May 17th, the day before Hunter planned to appear at one of his father's rallies, at Eakins Oval, in Philadelphia, Breitbart News published a story based on a Prescott, Arizona, police report from 2016 that named Hunter as the suspect in a possible narcotics offense.

    He is a pretty soft target.  


    Yeah, (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 06:17:59 PM EST
    I looked him up after I posted and found most of the above information. Another thing is he tried to get in the military but tested positive for cocaine.

    Maybe all of this is why Obama was gently advising Biden not to run. He knew what was going to happen but Biden has been around a long time and you would think he would know the GOP was going to "go there". Of course, the Nazi's already have their book ready much like they did with "Clinton Cash".


    Does the Tr*mp campaign want a fight (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 11:13:57 PM EST
    over whose offspring are worse? Hunter (and Beau, not to mention the sainted Naomi, and social worker Ashley) vs Don Jr., Eric, Jared, Ivanka?

    Their connivery is legion. (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 21, 2019 at 11:16:09 AM EST
    A highlight of their character:  Trump Foundation.  N.Y. State AG Letitia James has claimed misuse of charity funds asking the judge to bar Trump and his three eldest children from running any charities in the state for the next 10 years.

    The AG also asked the judge for restitution of $2.6 million and a penalty of $5.6 million.  The Trump Foundation has been dissolved with remaining assets distributed among bona fide charitable organizations.

    And, as we know, Ivanka is a presidential adviser and sits in on meetings with world leaders.  Junior is a spokesman and tweeter for Trump---both he and Eric supposedly run Trump Emoluments, Inc. (aka, the Trump Organization).


    It would (none / 0) (#114)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 21, 2019 at 06:11:06 AM EST
    seem he does. Anything to distract from his horrible record as president.

    By Halloween (none / 0) (#111)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Sep 20, 2019 at 09:58:58 PM EST
    nothing will happen. Nancy Pelosi will huff and puff and do nothing. Chuck Schumer will tell announce the Democrats didn't really want to know what Orange jesus said. The rest of the Dems will shrug their shoulders and claim "we tried." It is getting GD embarrassing to be a Democrat.

    Caretaker charged with manslaughter (none / 0) (#117)
    by McBain on Sat Sep 21, 2019 at 11:30:10 AM EST
    for the death of a disabled man.
    An assisted living facility worker now faces a charge of aggravated manslaughter after deputies say he fell asleep in a hot minivan from ingesting kratom in May and let the disabled man he was caring for die in the heat.

    Just a horrible story all around but I'm not sure a long prison sentence is appropriate here.  
    Russell then drove back to the living facility. But the kratom caused him to feel nauseated and drowsy, so deputies said he drove the van back home and parked it outside. Then he reclined the driver's seat and fell asleep. He left the vehicle turned off, Gualtieri said, and only cracked one window for air.

    When he awoke two to three hours later, he was covered in sweat and found LaPointe non-responsive. He tried to revive LaPointe, the sheriff said, but couldn't. Then he went back inside his house to retrieve a gun and intended to take his own life, deputies said.

    EMMYS (none / 0) (#126)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 22, 2019 at 10:22:19 AM EST
    Tonight.   It's been a great year for tv.

    Here's (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 22, 2019 at 10:23:38 AM EST
    Patricia Arquette (none / 0) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 22, 2019 at 07:59:34 PM EST
    Could win twice.

    Which would be great.


    I miss the old days (none / 0) (#131)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 08:57:51 AM EST
    When people commented on things like the EMMYs

    So I will (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 09:13:51 AM EST
    The show was close to unwatchable, meh.  What's new.  I had to keep it on delay and just watch the awards and skip the rest.  But some pretty f,ing awsum things happened last night.

    I love Patricia Arquette won even tho it was not for the role I thought she deserved it for it was for an important role that goes into uncomfortable trans  issues.

    I love that Billy Porter, an openly (and that doesn't really cover it) gay man, won best actor in a drama.  In a year when the competition was brutal.  In the role of a drag queen in a series that does not treat them like characters in a freak show.

    I love Jody Comer won for Killing Eve.  Which is one of the best thing ever.  She is amazing.

    I loved Ru Paul won, again, just because it was fun to watch.

    I love GOT won for best drama.  It was.


    Never heard of "Fleabag" ... (none / 0) (#133)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 03:07:14 PM EST
    ... before last night. Now almost everybody has. It's wonderful to see unsung and independent creators get recognition for the quality work they produce. The emergence of alternative digital media platforms with streaming content is revitalizing the entertainment industry in L.A. and elsewhere by challenging the corporate nexus of the Hollywood-New York establishment.

    There has been (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 05:23:57 PM EST
    Quite a lot of praise for Fleabag here.  

    And not from me.  But I agree.


    ths U.S. shows are so bad I haven't (none / 0) (#142)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 08:08:31 PM EST
    watched any to comment on.

    Go Cards! (none / 0) (#129)
    by Zorba on Sun Sep 22, 2019 at 06:10:01 PM EST
    They beat the Cubs in all four games!  Yay!

    We of the True Blue Brew Crew (none / 0) (#140)
    by Towanda on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 04:27:38 PM EST
    thank da Cards.

    How about our Brewers, winning almost every one of 18 games in 18 days, despite the loss of the amazing Yelich.

    And the Brewers have an easier schedule for the final games than do the Cards or Cubs, who have to meet again.. . . .

    Spouse Towanda and I have priority (with our 10-game package) for postseason tickets, and it would be great fun to bring our grandboy.  At 3, he already has had baseball classes. But I suspect that his parents would want that seat.


    As long as (none / 0) (#145)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 04:03:21 PM EST
    The Brewers stay in second place in the NL Central!

    (Actually, I think the Dodgers will wind up taking the NL title.)


    I want to be a Canadian (none / 0) (#135)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 05:39:19 PM EST

    Abacus found that 76 percent of 1,929 Canadians interviewed from September 18 to 22 weren't bothered by seeing their prime minister in blackface or accepted his apology.

    Canada does not have our paralyzing fear of race.  I love that.

    I realize there are historical reasons for that but I learned when I lived there they are not us on race.

    Perhaps the reason that Canadians ... (none / 0) (#139)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 03:28:53 PM EST
    ... are not paralyzed by race generally is because the white majority is actually all too comfortable in its own latent and patronizing bigotry. Because for Canadians of color, actual statistics paint a pretty dark picture:
    • Between 2005 and 2015, when Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative government held power in Ottawa, the number of black inmates who were incarcerated in Canadian federal prisons rose by almost 70%.
    • In Toronto, 41% of children and youth presently in the custody of child welfare services are black, despite that fact that blacks constitute just 8% of the youth population in the city.
    • In both Vancouver and Toronto, more than half of those who are living in poverty are members of racial minorities.
    • Suicide rates for young indigenous native males in Canada are ten times the rate for white youth, while for young indigenous females, it's an appalling 21 times higher.
    • The number of documented hate crimes committed against members of Canada's Muslim community has nearly tripled since 2012.

    And for all the airs that the people of Toronto put on about their diversity and tolerance, let's please remember that city voters also elected the late Rob Ford as their mayor, despite his homophobic and vitriolic outbursts which he regularly directed at Toronto's LGBTQ community.

    When it comes to matters of race and ethnic bias, white Canadians are really not much different than their U.S. counterparts south of the border. They're just a lot more polite and less in-your-face about it in general.

    But to be fair, many elected officials of Canada's ruling Liberal Party are quite aware of the problems that exist and are actually trying to address them, which is a helluva lot more than we can say for the members of our own Republican Party. Per Michael Coteau, a black Liberal member of the Ontario Legislative Assembly who also served for five years as the provincial minister for  Ontario's Anti-Racism Directorate:

    "When you look at employment, when you look at poverty, when you look at incarceration, when you look at academia, there's a stark contrast between some particular groups and others. And I think it's our job to ensure that if there are barriers that are identified, that we as a government look for ways to remove those barriers."



    Catching up on the Amber Guyger manslaughter (none / 0) (#144)
    by McBain on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 03:43:45 PM EST
    trail on Court TV...

    The front door being left ajar doesn't seem to be a big deal so far. Before the trail there were reports/opinions that it was impossible for those doors not to shut and lock automatically, but that doesn't appear to be the case.  

    More interesting, according to one witness, 15% of the residents at Jean's/Guyger's complex reporting trying to open the wrong unit by mistake.

    My take so far is the defense is doing a good job of showing this tragic shooting was a mistake, not intentional while the prosecution is playing on emotion.  

    A strange moment was when Jean's neighbor took the stand and starting crying.  As he left the courtroom, it appeared the judge had tears in her eyes.    

    Guilty of murder (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 12:14:30 PM EST
    As she should be. Nobody, and I mean nobody, should be killed in their own home while watching television without the perpetrator paying the price. I don't care who they are. Cop, civilian, thug, whomever. Being a cop should not be a free pass to enter someone else's home and kill them. And here, finally, it was not. Good day for the citizens of Dallas, Texas.

    Update (none / 0) (#173)
    by McBain on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 09:40:01 AM EST
    Correction: This is a murder case with manslaughter included as a lesser charge.

    The jury is deliberating and asked the judge  questions about manslaughter and Castle Doctrine, which is interesting because Guyger wasn't in her home.

    I believe this is another high profile case where politics lead to overcharging. I got to see much of the opening and closing arguments and some of the witness testimony I didn't see the prosecution prove murder but I'm not usually someone who's going to to be swayed by an emotional argument.

    If the jury follows the law, I don't believe she'll be convicted of murder. Not sure about manslaughter. If the jury votes on emotion, anything is possible. The state really hammered home they didn't think Guyer's going to the wrong apartment was a reasonable mistake and she didn't give adequate CRP/First Aid. I don't think what happened before and after she made the decision to shoot Jean is all that relevant but we will see.    


    IMO (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 12:24:29 PM EST
    The Castle Doctrine should have only applied to Mr. Jean. He would have been well within his rights to shoot and kill an armed Amber Guyger once she entered HIS apartment.

    Jury says guilty of murder (none / 0) (#175)
    by Peter G on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 12:13:24 PM EST
    I'm kind of surprised, but cannot say it is definitely unlawful, based on what little I've heard and read of the evidence.

    I'm surprised as well. (none / 0) (#179)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 01:43:36 PM EST
    "Basically, she's putting forth two defenses: (1.) because of her mistake of fact (she thought she was entering her own home) (2.) she had a right to use deadly force to protect her home," Williams said. "It will ultimately come down to whether she was reasonable in believing that she was entering her own home."

    My ()s.

    Or whether the jury believed she believed that she was entering her own home.


    It was a very strange case (none / 0) (#180)
    by McBain on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 04:20:50 PM EST
    The way I understood the law and evidence, I would have found her not guilty of murder and probably not guilty of manslaughter.

    The mistake of entering the wrong apartment was reasonable in my opinion. The only justification for murder I see is, once she was inside Jean's home,  her inability to realize it wasn't her home was unreasonable.  I have a feeling things happened too fast for her.

    The lead investigator for the Texas Rangers was going to testify that he believed Guyger's mistakes were reasonable under the circumstances.  The judge didn't let him.  

    Another strange thing was during the entire trial, there was a large photo of Jean next to the judge for the jurors to look at.  I've never seen that.  Is that common?


    Totally normal and proper for the judge (none / 0) (#181)
    by Peter G on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 04:41:10 PM EST
    to bar a witness (especially a law enforcement officer) from giving their opinion on the exact ultimate question (what is reasonable) that the jury is supposed to decide based on all the evidence and as representatives of the community. It is certainly normal for the prosecutor in a murder trial to try to display a big picture of the decedent, but not normal in my experience for the defense not to object to keeping it up more than a few minutes, nor for the judge to allow that. Unless Texas has some crazy "victims' rights" law that specifically authorizes it.

    I Have No Opinion on the Verdict (none / 0) (#188)
    by RickyJim on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 07:35:37 PM EST
    since I am not familiar with all the court testimony.  However I do have an opinion on the way certain people in the courthouse behaved after the verdict was read: IT STINKS.
    Cheers erupted in the courthouse as the verdict was announced, and someone yelled: "Thank you, Jesus!" In the hallway outside the courtroom where Guyger was tried, a crowd celebrated and said "black lives matter" in raised voices. When the prosecutors walked into the hall, they broke into cheers.

    Their reaction ... (none / 0) (#189)
    by Yman on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 08:45:06 PM EST
    ... was entirely justified, IMO.

    Just What I Expected From Yman (none / 0) (#190)
    by RickyJim on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 09:07:24 PM EST
    I very well remember your reaction to the Martin-Zimmerman case.  Was the cheering in certain quarters after the OJ verdict entirely justified also?  I believe a justice system, to have credibility, must be based on critical evaluation of the evidence, not on how well it serves to avenge some group's desire for revenge on another.

    I couldn't care less ... (none / 0) (#195)
    by Yman on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 10:29:24 AM EST
    ... about what you "expect," but my perception is they were relieved that the jury didn't justify it rationalize yet ANOTHER killing of an unarmed black man who was doing nothing but minding his own business in his own apartment.  But your reaction is just what I expect from certain people who haven't been in their shoes and are safely shielded by their privilege.

    seems legitimate to me since that's what she kept repeating over and over during her 911 call and after, iirc.

    And what explanation would there be for her to have knowingly entered a stranger's apartment and immediately executed the guy?

    iow, on that point, she either made a legit mistake, or she purposely executed Jean.

    I wonder if the jury found that it didn't matter if she truly believed it was her apartment, but rather simply that Jean did not pose a threat to her that legalized her use of lethal force.


    I haven't heard from the jury (none / 0) (#187)
    by McBain on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 07:19:40 PM EST
    but the prosecution definitely wanted them to believe entering the wrong apartment wasn't a legit mistake. They also wanted to jury to know Guyger had been texting and sexting a married coworker prior to the shooting. What did that have to do with anything?

    Peter has posted some good comments about this case.  I'd love to hear from Jeralyn.


    I'm flabbergasted and dismayed (4.75 / 4) (#191)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 09:37:42 PM EST
    by some of the comments here. Entering the wrong apartment is a mistake. Then proceeding to kill the occupant of that apartment is NOT a MISTAKE. That is murder. She was not convicted for entering the wrong apt. Rather she was convicted for the latter. I get the impression you folks think she should have walked because 1) she was soooooo scared. 2) she was a cop 3) she was a scared white female cop. 4) Jean was vig and black

    Being scared ought not be a free pass to killing people. IN THEIR OWN HOME. Cops use that excuse too often. Why are American cops such pu$$ies that they all so scared so often?

    The thing that seems lost on you is this man was killed, murdered, in his own home for simply eating ice cream and watching TV.


    Guyger sentenced to 10 years (none / 0) (#198)
    by McBain on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 04:43:37 PM EST
    I'm not sure any prison time is appropriate but considering what she could have received, 99 years, perhaps 10 years is a relatively light sentence?

    Adding to the list of things I don't remember seeing before, Jean's brother Brandt, asked the judge if he could hug Guyger and judged allowed it.  After reading her sentence, the judge also hugged Guyger.  

    Court TV reported the state asked for 28 years.  



    Ambassador Joe Wilson.. (none / 0) (#148)
    by desertswine on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 05:45:18 PM EST
    Saw that (none / 0) (#149)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 06:37:02 PM EST

    The Karate Kid is dead (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 10:16:21 AM EST
    He was 59.

    Never a fan of the movies.  In fact I have never seen an entire one.

    But it seems like a moment.

    Not to be misleading (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 10:23:24 AM EST
    A Karate Kid is dead.

    WARREN WARREN WARREN (none / 0) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 12:41:32 PM EST
    Eff Wall Street democratic donors. (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 03:40:17 PM EST
    All they are looking out for is their own inflated wallets. The epitome of the rich getting richer. I'm leaning Warren come primary day.

    Talk about election interference (none / 0) (#156)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 04:28:11 PM EST
    how about Wall Street?

    Or don't they count?


    I saw this (none / 0) (#160)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 06:30:12 AM EST
    and thought they would rather have Russia running the country than pay more taxes or be regulated. Sheesh.

    The democrat response (none / 0) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 07:52:05 AM EST
    Should be, do it.

    And we will make you famous.


    Sixth grade boys accused (none / 0) (#162)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 11:38:22 AM EST
    Sixth grade boys accused of pinning down black girl and cutting off her dreadlocks

    I'd imagine most of TL has seen this story by now.

    Going out on a limb, my gut says that this black 12 y/o sixth grader's story - that she got pinned down by the slide on the school playground at recess by 3 white male schoolmates who then cut her hair with scissors - will turn out to be false.

    Her face has been spread worldwide. As upsetting as her story is if true, if it does indeed turn out to be false...

    She's 12 y/o. Do journalists not think at all before they hand in their stories to the "news" orgs?

    I don't have a subscription to WaPo (none / 0) (#164)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 11:35:40 AM EST
    You sure (none / 0) (#166)
    by KeysDan on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 04:00:06 PM EST
    called this one.  Sad for.all...the boys and the girl.

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 05:50:47 PM EST
    That said the grandparents seem very solid. I think the odds are good that she grows up to be a credit to their support and guidance.

    How long (none / 0) (#165)
    by MKS on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 11:48:36 AM EST
    before Rudy and Trump run naked across the White House lawn?

     Or maybe their style is more barricade themselves in the West Wing with hostages.

    Okay. (none / 0) (#167)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 05:30:14 PM EST
    Now Barr went to Italy and Austria to try to shake them down on behalf of Trump. Apparently Barr initiated this shakedown himself.

    Where are the trolls? (none / 0) (#169)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 06:27:17 PM EST

    Oh, yes (none / 0) (#170)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 06:31:26 PM EST
    especially Russian Trevor who said it something about how the FBI was going to have to pay for something or the other. I guess the Russian troll agency was giving them a heads up on Barr trying to undercut our own country with foreign intelligence agencies.

    But (none / 0) (#171)
    by FlJoe on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 06:44:45 PM EST
    who needs to pay trolls when you have the likes of Lindsey Graham and Gym Jordan who do it for free. Da?

    They grow wild at Fox news and CNN has a whole stable of semi-tame ones on retainer.

    I tell ya, it's really tough for good old blue collar trolls these days.


    Those two (none / 0) (#172)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 07:12:06 PM EST
    are something else for sure. History is not going to be kind to them.  It's going to be especially ugly for them when the Kompromat comes out and you know there is kompromat with those two.

    That's (none / 0) (#182)
    by FlJoe on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 05:46:26 PM EST
    not allowed they told the toddler several times

    Privately, the president had often talked about fortifying a border wall with a water-filled trench, stocked with snakes or alligators, prompting aides to seek a cost estimate. He wanted the wall electrified, with spikes on top that could pierce human flesh. After publicly suggesting that soldiers shoot migrants if they threw rocks, the president backed off when his staff told him that was illegal. But later in a meeting, aides recalled, he suggested that they shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down. That's not allowed either, they told him.
    seems well sourced
    This article is based on interviews with more than a dozen White House and administration officials directly involved in the events of that week in March. They were granted anonymity to describe sensitive conversations with the president and top officials in the government.
    The Times practically outs  Kirstjen Nielsen as one of them.

    Alligators, snakes and  steel spikes, what no laser beams?

    "Shoot them in the legs"  sure looks great on his Nobel Prize resume.

    Ha (none / 0) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 05:49:09 PM EST
    You beat me.

    Twitter is funny.  Imagine the logistics of maintaining a thousand mile moat filled with snakes and alligators who have to be kept fed but hungry.


    The shocking thing? (none / 0) (#185)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 06:37:53 PM EST
    At this point I think I've become unshockable. I am so not surprised at this nonsense.

    Yep (none / 0) (#186)
    by FlJoe on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 06:44:41 PM EST
    it's never I can't believe tRump said/did/thought that. It's always of course he did.

    If you need another reason (none / 0) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 08:27:59 AM EST
    Big brother (none / 0) (#197)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 04:38:59 PM EST
    Bernie (none / 0) (#193)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 09:28:49 AM EST

    Bernie, we really hope you survive. Eventually.

    But seriously (none / 0) (#194)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 09:43:53 AM EST
    Think about this.  If he is forced to drop out who would he support.  If anyone thinks it would NOT be Warren I would like to hear the reasoning.

    If he dropped out and backed Warren that could change everything


    It looks (none / 0) (#196)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 02:11:38 PM EST
    like he is close to dropping out as he's canceled like 1.3 million dollars worth of ads in Iowa.

    I saw someone say (none / 0) (#199)
    by CST on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 05:48:09 PM EST
    His supporters may be the death of him if he feels like he has to stick this out.

    I know if I were in his family I would fight like hell to keep him out, but ultimately he might decide it's worth it,  and I can't really fault him that.

    As to the horserace - it changes things for him and Biden, IMO, whether he drops out or not, but yes obviously his endorsement would go a long way and it would definitely be Warren. I don't really expect him to drop out.


    I was thinking (none / 0) (#200)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 05:50:42 PM EST
    Probably only if he had too.  But that could happen.  He is quite old and I'm sure the schedule is pretty punishing.

    Not to mention all the added questions (none / 0) (#201)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 05:57:07 PM EST
    About his health are now going to make running even more pointless.  

    Just saw Joker (none / 0) (#202)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 03, 2019 at 06:08:08 PM EST
    It's really quite a thing. The surrounding hysteria is stupid.  Not for everyone.  Phoenix has a buttload of nominations (at least) in his pocket.  Definitely his movie.  It's a very different comic book movie.

    I thought it was amazing but you know what I like.

    Ginger Baker (none / 0) (#203)
    by desertswine on Sun Oct 06, 2019 at 03:25:26 PM EST
    Michael Moore on JOKER (none / 0) (#204)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 06, 2019 at 09:46:05 PM EST
    "On Wednesday night I attended the New York Film Festival and witnessed a cinematic masterpiece, the film that last month won the top prize as the Best Film of the Venice International Film Festival. It's called `Joker' -- and all we Americans have heard about this movie is that we should fear it and stay away from it. We've been told it's violent and sick and morally corrupt -- an incitement and celebration of murder. We've been told that police will be at every screening this weekend in case of `trouble.' Our country is in deep despair, our constitution is in shreds, a rogue maniac from Queens has access to the nuclear codes -- but for some reason, it's a movie we should be afraid of.

    "I would suggest the opposite: The greater danger to society may be if you DON'T go see this movie. Because the story it tells and the issues it raises are so profound, so necessary, that if you look away from the genius of this work of art, you will miss the gift of the mirror it is offering us. Yes, there's a disturbed clown in that mirror, but he's not alone -- we're standing right there beside him.

    Beware of Mr Baker.. (none / 0) (#205)
    by jondee on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 01:56:33 PM EST
    the name of the excellent documentary about Ginger, is also what I'd advise the devil