home

Thursday Open Thread

This government shutdown needs to end.

Michael Cohen is not hot. But I welcome his testimony on Feb. 7 and hope he confirms that he paid paid to doctor polls advancing Trump's nascent candidacy. Author Kurt Eichenwald breaks it all down. Cohen has confirmed the Wall St. Journal story on Twitter. The NY Times has more.

I've still got too much work to blog, probably until tomorrow afternoon or Saturday.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Julian Castro Announces Presidential Bid | Tuesday Open Thread >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    I think the Cohen testimony (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 03:16:29 PM EST
    Is going to be pretty earth shaking.

    It Wil put a face on the abstract.

    As far as Cheeto cancelling The congressional trip, it is so desperate and petulant it would be funny if it wasn't so incredibly stupid.

    Any high ground he might have had is so out the window.

    Just got a bit more interesting (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 09:30:36 PM EST
    Perhaps I'm stating the obvious here, but (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Peter G on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 11:13:55 PM EST
    subornation of perjury is felony. And which is without question an impeachable offense.

    Parent
    Yes, it's stating the obvious. (none / 0) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 04:33:36 AM EST
    But in this instance, given that 62.9 million Americans oh so casually chucked common sense out their car windows in 2016 while racing their way to the polls to vote for this malevolent trust-fund brat, I'm afraid the obvious really can't be stated and restated enough.

    ;-D

    Parent

    William Barr agrees (none / 0) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 07:28:42 AM EST
    Also this (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 08:08:02 AM EST
    Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump was startled Tuesday as he watched television coverage of his nominee for attorney general describing a warm relationship with the special counsel Robert Mueller in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee, according to three people familiar with the matter.

    During the first day of his confirmation hearing, William Barr described telling the President the first time he met him in June 2017 that he was friends with Mueller, referring to him on a first name basis.
    "I told him how well I knew Bob Mueller and that the Barrs and Muellers were good friends and would be good friends when this was all over," Barr said. "Bob is a straight-shooter and should be dealt with as such."
    While Barr said during his hearing that Trump "was interested" in hearing about the friendship, the details that emerged this week caught the President off guard, the three sources said. He bristled at Barr's description of the close relationship, complaining to aides he didn't realize how much their work overlapped or that they were so close.



    Parent
    Can a President (none / 0) (#28)
    by Zorba on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 08:49:10 AM EST
    Withdraw a nominee once the confirmation hearings have begun?
    I would think he could, although it would make that President look like a fool.
    (Not hard to do with the current POTUS.)

    Parent
    It's said (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 09:56:43 AM EST
    Ms Barr and Ms Mueller do bible study together.

    Parent
    Yes, without question (none / 0) (#32)
    by Peter G on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 01:07:11 PM EST
    a nominee can withdraw, and a President can withdraw a nominee.

    Parent
    From a standpoint of protocol, ... (none / 0) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 04:28:47 PM EST
    ... the White House can pull a nomination any time the president pleases, because while senior appointed positions often require Senate confirmation, the persons who occupy those posts serve strictly at the pleasure of the chief executive.

    But as a matter of practice, the only time such nominations tend to be pulled are those instances when said nominee clearly does not have the requisite number of votes in the Senate to be confirmed.

    Aloha.


    Parent

    I have wondered (none / 0) (#31)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 12:26:01 PM EST
    If Barr's job is to try to salvage the Republican Party.  Trump's fate is secondary and probably recognized as a lost cause---providing a defense as best he can.  That Barr audition memo (that was so long it ceased being a memo and entered essay territory) was curious, if not odd.  But, it hooked Trump.  And, Barr got the job he did so well 30 years ago...he saved the Republican Party.  Bill Clinton probably saved Daddy Bush by defeating him in the next election.  It is, as if, the Republican high rollers demanded an updated performance to be known as "Don't Let the F.....g moron with the wig let us go the way of the Whigs".   Maybe, even, a part of bible study.

    Parent
    I saw Laurence Tribe (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 03:26:37 PM EST
    Hopefully speculating Barr, in tap dancing around things like recusal, was doing what he had to do to keep Trump on board.

    Parent
    Yes, even (none / 0) (#10)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 04:24:51 PM EST
    Lindsey,  of the Kavanaugh hearing temper tandrum,  called  Trump' s petulance---childish.  Trump should not be so bothered by not having a place to give the State of the Union.  Surely the Grand Kremlin Palace could be made avaiable. After all, secret back channel systems were to be made available in the Russian Embassy for Trump.

    Parent
    I'm busy thinking food (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by Zorba on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 03:29:38 PM EST
    Last night I made some very tasty shrimp salad.  Whole shrimp, mayonnaise, some lemon juice, finely grated lemon zest, chopped fresh basil, Old Bay seasoning.  (Don't overdo the basil and Old Bay.)  We served it on nice croissants.

    Tonight, an artichoke heart and bacon quiche.

    ... can troll Trump and his white wingbat chumps as brutally but effectively as Aeromexico, the flagship airline of our immediate neighbors south of the border, I've yet to see it. That carrier's latest online ad, in which it offers "DNA discounts" on air fares to an odd assortment of rubes in Wharton, TX, is friggin' hilarious: "Yeah, I'd go to Mexico, if they had Taco Bells on the street corners down there."

    Currently experiencing (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 11:16:42 AM EST
    A fabulous and beautiful snow storm.  Fire going.  Bong going.  Cream of celery and garlic soup going.

    I for one welcome our polar vortex overlords

    Check (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 11:36:33 AM EST
    I'm glad (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 03:03:13 PM EST
    to see for some strange reason that I'm not the only one around here with a double posting problem.

    Totally unpolitical (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Zorba on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 03:35:37 PM EST
    I made, for Mr. Zorba and me, cucumber martinis.
    Mulled cucumbers, a tiny bit of agave syrup, and Hendricks Gin.  Oh, my.  Really good.
    And I made some venison chili, with some canned tomatoes, but mostly coffee and unsweetened chocolate.  Somewhat similar to mole, and tasty.

    Lots of people are still buzzing ... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 12:43:11 AM EST
    ... about the video shot by local researchers of "Deep Blue," the 20-foot-plus female great white shark that showed up in waters off Honolulu this week. She's supposedly the largest great white ever photographed or recorded, and as the state legislature convened this week, there are now several bills being introduced to afford greater protections for Hawaii's sharks and rays.

    Glad to hear the buzz is positive (none / 0) (#110)
    by McBain on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 10:56:50 AM EST
    Today is the 40th Anniversary (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 11:22:29 PM EST
    Of the day I let a local TV film crew make a video of my downhill off-road bicycle race, January 20, 1979. This would be the very first video evidence of what would eventually be called "mountain biking."

    By the end of that year, Gary Fisher, who is also featured in the video, and I would rent a garage and start building bicycles under the (two man) company name of MountainBikes.

    A total of 26 billionaires... (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by desertswine on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 03:51:28 PM EST
    own half of the world's wealth.  

    A sobering new report by the charity Oxfam has laid bare the stunning levels of global wealth inequality.
    According to the report, published Monday, billionaires have never had it better. The combined riches of the world's 26 most wealthy billionaires equals $1.4 trillion -- this is equal to the total wealth of the bottom 3.8 billion of the world's population.
    Billionaires have increased their wealth by 12 percent this year, the report states, while at the same time the wealth of the poorest half of the world has fallen by 11 percent.

    And they're not going to save us.

    The food fight continues (none / 0) (#1)
    by ragebot on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 02:22:09 PM EST
    To expand on an earlier thread... (none / 0) (#4)
    by McBain on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 03:49:32 PM EST
    I recently cancelled my Comcast TV/DVR service.  I still pay for their internet and home phone service.  ($96/month).  So far, so good.  I'm able to watch just about everything I want on Netflix ($12/month) and a few other streaming channels I get for free.  

    The only thing I was really watching on Comcast TV was mostly horrible cable news (CNN/Fox). I can stream Reuters news and other updates for free and I can still read all the over the top opinion stuff online.  

    I might sign up for Amazon Prime soon ($13/month) to watch a few shows and have a decent musical selection for my Alexa.  When Game of Thrones comes out I'll pay ($15/month) to stream HBO for a month or so.  Maybe, I'll alternate between Prime and HBO.  All totaled up, I'll be paying about $130/month.  

    I'm curious what other people pay for TV/internet/home home?  I'm also thinking about getting rid of my home phone.  Anyone done that yet?  

    My problem has been (none / 0) (#6)
    by CST on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 03:56:27 PM EST
    That they essentially bundle all of the pricing for cable into internet now.

    It was something like $90 just for internet and another $5-10 for basic cable.  So I kept basic cable.  Although the last time I was personally responsible for sorting it out was a few years ago, since then I've lived with someone who had full cable and it just got lumped in as "their bill" to take care of.

    I haven't had a land line since high school.

    Parent

    Basic cable (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 04:06:37 PM EST
    Is not that cheap any more.  It's about 25 bucks or so at least in these parts and it's worthless.

    You get local channels and usually shopping and religious channels.  Why would you even bother.

    I have always had premium cable cable because it's worth it to me.  I never (ever) watch network tv.  Although FOX has a new show I might be hooked on.

    Generally, I have done them all, you can get premium cable and broadband for around 200.  They will list it for less but by the time you pay for all the small print and taxes that's what it's going to be.

    I recently switched to Directv.  I try to switch every couple of years, less without a contract, because you can get introductory offers.  Which is what I just did. I got top of the line cable for 77 bucks a months, for three months, then about 100 for a year, then about 130.

    I have excellent broadband coaxial for 55 a month, for a year, then it will be 65.


    Parent

    PS (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 04:22:04 PM EST
    They push bundling but in general you don't save that much.  The package I got got rid of was cable and internet and the saving was 10 bucks off the internet bill off a total bill that was 200-230 depending on PPVs

    Parent
    I haven't had a landline (none / 0) (#11)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 06:33:19 PM EST
    For 13 years.

    Parent
    I love my landline. (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by leap on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 07:55:03 PM EST
    The sound/voice quality is so superior to any cell phone from which I've ever had a call. Also, too, it still works when the power goes out. The connection doesn't just disappear--poof, gone!-- in the middle of a conversation, either.

    I do have a TracFone<sup>TM</sup>®© for travel, because it's getting harder and harder to find a phone booth with a working phone.

    Parent

    Funny (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 06:43:45 PM EST
    The reason I know it's been 25 years, doesn't seem that long, is that I moved from Boston to LA right in the middle of the Northridge earthquake.  Which I just read happened 25 years ago on the 17th.

    The last land line I had was in my apt in Boston.

    Parent

    I used my landline quite a bit in my (none / 0) (#13)
    by McBain on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 06:45:13 PM EST
    old home office set up.  It was better for speaker phone calls when dealing with customer service.  I also like having a landline in my bedroom for emergencies (don't like having a cell phone in the bedroom)  but it's probably time to join the 21st century and get rid of it.    

    Parent
    An interesting conversation (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 03:56:03 PM EST
    about Oumuamua

    Which is one of the most interesting science  stories in a long time.

    PS
    I haven't had "home phone" in 25 years

    Run! They're going to eat us. (none / 0) (#16)
    by desertswine on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 09:57:23 PM EST
    Not so fast. (none / 0) (#8)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 04:12:26 PM EST
    The owner of Chicago's Alinea Restaurant wants to treat the Clemson Tigers to a fine dining experience after the National Champions were served fast food at the White House.  Alinea, a Michelin three-star, is ranked among the best restaurants in the country.

    Total Unforced Error (none / 0) (#22)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 12:16:00 AM EST
    Of the sort only an absolute boor on steroids like Trump could deliver.

    Legendary material here folks.  This will cement some aspect of whatever the Legend of Donald turns out to be.  A seminal moment, like My Pet Goat.

    Late-night host material for a week.

    I have no love of the transparent semi-pro aspects of that level of college football.  My daughter attended University of Oregon.

    But I know that those players have been fed for as long as they have been at Clemson by nutritionists, dietitians and chefs in their separate dining facility.  They haven't had to eat fast food since high school.

    The photograph of Trump, standing triumphantly behind a table loaded with $50 worth of food is a classic for all time.

    On the plus side, the Clemson boys will never have to pay for another meal in their lives.

    Parent

    Uh-oh (none / 0) (#17)
    by MKS on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 10:39:57 PM EST
    Reports that Trump allegedly told Cohen to lie to Congress about Trump Tower Moscow.

    Whole new level now....

    Howdy, is that you that says Trump won't serve out term?

    President Pelosi? (none / 0) (#18)
    by MKS on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 11:04:16 PM EST
    Vice President Clutch Cargo might have ... (none / 0) (#23)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 04:16:12 AM EST
    ... something to say about that, although -- judging by his emotive but low-watt swipe today at critics of his wife's employer -- it likely won't be very intelligent. But it'll still be something.

    Parent
    Ha (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 11:09:52 PM EST
    This is just what we know now.  Seems very likely Cohen was hardly the only one Trump told to lie to congress.  All of which will be revealed now that their testimony will be turned over to Mueller. Who knows everything.

    The stories just get worse by the day.  I don't think that is an accident.  I think the skids are being greased.

    Parent

    See my comment (none / 0) (#21)
    by Peter G on Thu Jan 17, 2019 at 11:15:23 PM EST
    Didn't Cohen keep recordings? (none / 0) (#30)
    by CST on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 11:26:21 AM EST
    That's what I'd be most worried about if I were obstructing justice.

    Parent
    Mueller calls (none / 0) (#55)
    by ragebot on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:27:56 PM EST
    BeeSss on this.

    Parent
    Got a link fer that? (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:35:19 PM EST
    Turn on the TV (none / 0) (#58)
    by ragebot on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:40:02 PM EST
    FOX, CNN, MSNBC, and everyone else is reporting it.  You need to get out more.

    Parent
    You need to read the actual statement, ... (none / 0) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 12:04:21 AM EST
    ... and not rely on cable news' babbling babblers of Babbleon as your interpreter. Team Mueller takes specific issue with Buzzfeed's characterization of some evidence and witness statements in its reporting, but adroitly sidesteps the article's primary contention that Trump suborned Cohen's perjury.

    Parent
    First one in (none / 0) (#59)
    by ragebot on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:41:52 PM EST
    CNN (none / 0) (#60)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:43:59 PM EST
    just reported it, don't know if it's up on their web site yet. Mueller's spokes person called the report not accurate.

    I did feel like there was something fishy about this. Now the question is who and why?  

    Someone obviously threw a red herring out there, I think Buzzfeed needs to burn there sources.

    Parent

    Here's the statement (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:47:17 PM EST
    BuzzFeed's description of specific statements to the Special Counsel's Office, and characterization of documents obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen's Congressional testimony are not accurate

    That a very interesting statement

    Parent

    Interesting beyond (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:48:48 PM EST
    "The Sphinx speaks"

    Parent
    Very interesting choice of words (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:57:16 PM EST
    Even more so because Lanny Davis coming on tv this afternoon specifically to NOT  deny this story.

    Not accurate is not not true.

    Parent

    Not (none / 0) (#65)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 07:13:23 PM EST
    exactly a categorical denial, but Mueller wants to squelch the story for some good reason.

    Parent
    Those two reporters (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 07:14:39 PM EST
    Have a excellent track record.  

    Parent
    Excellent record? (none / 0) (#87)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 02:47:55 PM EST
    Thy said they have not actually seen the docs the whole drama rests on.

    Parent
    Excellent record? (none / 0) (#88)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 02:48:16 PM EST
    Thy said they have not actually seen the docs the whole drama rests on.

    Parent
    Ken Dilanian just now (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 07:13:29 PM EST
    Is saying to him they are not denying the story but details of the story like the documentation

    Here's a thought

    Instead of having "texts and emails" Cohen has a tape recording?

    Parent

    FWIW (none / 0) (#68)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 07:30:49 PM EST
    Buzzfeed "remains confident in their reporting"

    Parent
    I think he might have wanted to squelch it (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 07:44:02 PM EST
    Because in the last 24 hours there was a whole impeachment snowball thing happening

    Let's slow it down a bit.  

    I was saying just before this happened that it seemed like we were reaching critical mass.

    We don't want to get all excited and have a premature thing

    Buzz feed just repeated the information came from two federal law enforcement officials

    Parent

    Almost (none / 0) (#76)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 06:50:52 AM EST
    certainly two Fed's from SDNY. I wonder if this,at least partly, Mueller slapping back at them.

    Parent
    Yes, Mueller (none / 0) (#69)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 07:39:28 PM EST
    surely knows how to issue a repudiation or flat out denial.   "Not accurate" doesn't cut it. Maybe, not an accurate characterization that was made to his office, and, Mueller has been critiqued for not bringing this information forward immediately.   Mueller has his own timeline, but someone may feel it necessary to force his hand.   In any event, the BuzzFeed reporting has not been called out as false.

    Parent
    Yes, Mueller; (none / 0) (#70)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 07:40:33 PM EST
    surely knows how to issue a repudiation or flat out denial.   "Not accurate" doesn't cut it. Maybe, not an accurate characterization that was made to his office, and, Mueller has been critiqued for not bringing this information forward immediately.   Mueller has his own timeline, but someone may feel it necessary to force his hand.   In any event, the BuzzFeed reporting has not been called out as false.

    Parent
    Marcy Wheeler (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 08:11:55 PM EST
    Has some interesting thoughts on the Buzz feed story

    ABOUT THE BUZZFEED SCOOP: IT'S IMPORTANT, BUT IT OVERSELLS THE LYING PART



    Parent

    Marcy (none / 0) (#77)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 07:48:18 AM EST
    always has interesting thoughts.

    Buzzfeed seems to infer that the lie  about the Moscow deal was created in response to the investigation when it was almost certainly conceived of early in the campaign.

    Maybe it was crafted at the direction of tRump and maybe not, but once he proclaimed zero dealings in Russia that became the company line and lying would be SOP, orders from the top or not.

    Bottom line: Mueller has plenty of evidence that tRump expected and allowed Cohen to lie about it but little or no evidence that President Donald "Trump directed his longtime attorney Michael Cohen to lie to Congress." as asserted in the Buzzfeed story.

    Parent

    Mueller's (none / 0) (#84)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 11:23:08 AM EST
    carefully worded statement seems to be nuanced---the arc of the story is right, the description of specifics in some cases are confused or misleading or wrong.  Or. all of them Katy.

    In Cohen's November sentencing memo under " False Statements to  Congress", Cohen admits to lying to benefit Individual 1, in accordance with Individual 1's direction.  However, BuzzFeed may have given expansive wide-berth so as to be not accurate.  

    It is curious that it took Mueller 24 hours to respond.  Cohen deferred to Mueller.  Trump,s twitter finger went in the direction of impeaching Cohen' s veracity (hot hard to do) without addressing claims of  corroborating information.  And, Trump went from allegations of suborning perjury to possible, witness intimidation.

    Parent

    Mueller's (none / 0) (#85)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM EST
    carefully worded statement seems to be nuanced---the arc of the story is right, the description of specifics in some cases are confused or misleading or wrong.  Or. all of them Katy.

    In Cohen's November sentencing memo under " False Statements to  Congress", Cohen admits to lying to benefit Individual 1, in accordance with Individual 1's direction.  However, BuzzFeed may have given expansive wide-berth so as to be not accurate.  

    It is curious that it took Mueller 24 hours to respond.  Cohen deferred to Mueller.  Trump,s twitter finger went in the direction of impeaching Cohen' s veracity (hot hard to do) without addressing claims of  corroborating information.  And, Trump went from allegations of suborning perjury to possible, witness intimidation.

    Parent

    More interesting than (none / 0) (#82)
    by ragebot on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 11:05:07 AM EST
    the article you linked to was a link in the comments to an article in The Epoch Times (suppose to be a weird paper owned by people involved in the Falun Gong movement).

    The article claims (not sure how reliable the claims are) lots of weird stuff about Papadopoulos including he was paid $US10,000 by a guy from Israel on a trip to Greece which he left there and the FBI searched for it when they arrested him on his return to the US.  Papa kinda claims that the money is marked and part of a govt operation that several peeps have insisted he return the original bills.

    Have no idea is this is fiction or not but it sure was a good read.

    Comments in The Epoch Times article also asked the question 'why didn't Cohen produce the evidence about Trump ordering him to lie earlier to reduce his time in the big house'


    Parent

    There are some (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 09:17:43 PM EST
    theories that law enforcement may be trying to protect their agency information since as we all know Trump has no problem with firing FBI agents. He could clean house of any agents that he thought were on the Russia beat and maybe these two were trying to protect themselves?

    SDNY leaks like a sieve though. We've had a bunch of stories that we know came from that office.

    Parent

    There are some (none / 0) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 09:17:44 PM EST
    theories that law enforcement may be trying to protect their agency information since as we all know Trump has no problem with firing FBI agents. He could clean house of any agents that he thought were on the Russia beat and maybe these two were trying to protect themselves?

    SDNY leaks like a sieve though. We've had a bunch of stories that we know came from that office.

    Parent

    There are some (none / 0) (#91)
    by ragebot on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 03:31:18 PM EST
    theories that the whole thing was a honey trap to smoke out leakers.  Kinda like when Tyrion gave different stories to Varys, Little Finger, and Pycelle and when Cersei came back with Pycelle's story Tyrion knew who the leaker was.

    Parent
    Russian State TV (none / 0) (#33)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 01:58:58 PM EST
    celebrates the 42 Republican Senators that came through for them for lifting sanctions on Manafort's colleague, Oleg Deripaska and his companies.  Recognition included, McConnell, Mitt Romney, Rick Scott, Thune, Burr (chair of senate intelligence).  No from Rubio, Cotton and all Democrats.

    Actually (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 03:21:40 PM EST
    I think it was no from both my senators

    Cotton and Bozeman

    A rare moment of pride.

    Parent

    Both of mine (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 03:34:24 PM EST
    were yes. David Perdue is one of the biggest hacks in the senate. However I'm glad he finally announced publicly his support of Putin. Isakson voted for this garbage too but I imagine he is going to retire in 2022. He's in poor health.

    Parent
    It really feels like (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 05:35:56 PM EST
    We are reaching some kind of critical mass.  I guess if so it will be when Mueller drops the final shoes which they say could be as soon as Feb.  I would imagine the timing of Cohen's public testimony is not done without some thought.

    This whole (none / 0) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 05:52:26 PM EST
    thing has a lot of nooks and crannies. There is the Manafort/campaign colluding with the Russians. There is Cambridge Analytica with the Mercers angle. There is the Prince/Jared deal in Seychelles. All roads lead the Kremlin and I guess that is just going to be the bottom line.

    Parent
    This whole (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 05:52:27 PM EST
    thing has a lot of nooks and crannies. There is the Manafort/campaign colluding with the Russians. There is Cambridge Analytica with the Mercers angle. There is the Prince/Jared deal in Seychelles. All roads lead the Kremlin and I guess that is just going to be the bottom line.

    Parent
    Again, (none / 0) (#42)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 05:52:55 PM EST
    sorry. For some reason Chrome is posting my comments twice.

    Parent
    Again, (none / 0) (#43)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 05:52:55 PM EST
    sorry. For some reason Chrome is posting my comments twice.

    Parent
    Sorry but that's funny (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 05:54:32 PM EST
    Emergency declaration? (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 05:52:40 PM EST

    Trump says he will make a `major' announcement on Saturday about the border and government shutdown

    It might be weather related

    here comes the polar vortex

    I heard some speculation that a huge winter storm might be used as a vehicle for a sort of sick out by TSA people.  Shutting down some major airports.

    The blast of Arctic weather headed for the United States this weekend could be a first sign of still worse things to come this winter, with signs that a circular low-pressure system of swirling winds that normally keeps frigid air locked up at the North Pole has been disrupted and split into smaller parts.


    Parent
    That (none / 0) (#50)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:04:38 PM EST
    was my first and so far only guess, it seems like his best way out at the moment.

    He could easily spin it as saving the country from the Pelosi & Schmer shutdown, while telling his base "Fk congress, I and I alone will build the wall by decree".

    Parent

    And grabbing (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:12:01 PM EST
    A news cycle

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#53)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:22:24 PM EST
    it could be as simple as that, just a chance to throw a public tantrum is it's own reward.

    Parent
    OMG if it actually takes an act of nature (none / 0) (#112)
    by ruffian on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 04:52:21 PM EST
    to get us out of this ridiculous shutdown...well I will welcome it, but jeeeeesus. Let him claim some sort of victory, the Senate pass the House bill, and we live to fight about the wall some other day while the government opens back up andMueller and the House investigations proceed.

    It is all so insane.

    Parent

    I think (none / 0) (#123)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 09:55:22 AM EST
    It will take an act of national resistance.  It worked against health care repeal and to regain the House.  A big demonstration or federal worker strike for a day has been suggested.  P

    Parent
    I thought so (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 10:03:41 AM EST
    But Dumphs poll numbers are seriously tanking.  I just heard 31 for Indies.

    It could possibly be this thing on Saturday, said to be Mitches idea, might become a way out

    Or not

    Parent

    Even (none / 0) (#125)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 10:11:34 AM EST
    Rasmussen has him 12 points underwater.

    Parent
    Michael (none / 0) (#45)
    by ragebot on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 05:55:07 PM EST
    That was yesterday (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:03:56 PM EST
    He will testify.

    Parent
    I actually saw that interview (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:10:56 PM EST
    I got the impression it was a PR thing to make Cohen seem brave and whatever.  While I don't doubt he might have some concerns I don't actually think he is that worried about the welfare of his father in law

    I saw Lanny Davis again today and it seemed even less likely.  He went on tv today specifically to say he had nothing to say about the instructions to lie to congress.   It was a classic non-denial denial.  It was done, quite effectively, to say we are not disputing (or confirming) this story.

    Cohen will testify.  Trust me.

     

    Parent

    Wondering if (none / 0) (#46)
    by ragebot on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 05:56:17 PM EST
    No, (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:00:24 PM EST
    apparently he is going to give up his demand for a wall from what I read.

    Parent
    No, (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:00:24 PM EST
    apparently he is going to give up his demand for a wall from what I read.

    Parent
    Either way (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:25:56 PM EST
    Emergency or fold I think it really could be related to rumors of a coming sick out by TSA that would bring the whole country to a stand still.

    Your senator Johnny Isakson just advised the TSA to do just that.  Incredibly.  

    Parent

    Here "what if" (none / 0) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:34:50 PM EST
    We've got a Super Bowl coming to Atlanta, Georgia, in about three weeks. The biggest tourism event in the world this year. What if the largest airport in the world that's going to bring all the people to the largest football game in the world goes out of business because the TSA does strikes? Then you've just cost millions of dollars to the United States of America, my home city, the city of Atlanta, and others. And there are thousands of examples just like that," he said.

    Thanks for the suggestion Johnny

    Parent

    Sounds (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 06:47:29 PM EST
    like he desperately wants to end the shutdown and is putting that out there saying OMG what IF this happens. If it did happen the GOP in GA would be toast. He's right about the millions that would be lost.

    Parent
    Is it too much of an imaginative stretch (none / 0) (#72)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 18, 2019 at 07:47:46 PM EST
    to suggest that Trump can shove a border wall up his as*?

    Sad!

    So we are told not to expect an (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 09:04:51 AM EST
    Emergency declaration.  That Trump plans to make the democrats an offer they can't refuse.

    Which seems likely to be bullish!t

    If he really had a credible offer he wouldn't to it on teevee but to the democrats.

    On the other hand......

    Politico (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 09:21:27 AM EST
    Shutdown squeezes every part of air travel

    Some current and former lawmakers have speculated that the aviation system could reach a breaking point -- perhaps a strike that halts air traffic -- that would pressure Congress and the White House to settle their differences. "If TSA agents don't go to work, the shutdown is over tomorrow," Montana Democratic Sen. Jon Tester told reporters this week. "I'm not advocating they do that, but you stop air traffic and this thing's over with."

    But a strike is not about to happen, say the unions representing TSA screeners, air traffic controllers and other critical aviation workers, which note that it would be illegal for them to walk off the job.

    On the other hand, nothing prevents unpaid employees from quitting outright. Already, many are simply calling in absent because they cannot afford to work without pay.



    Parent
    Supposedly (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 10:03:18 AM EST
    A deal for DACA?

    Parent
    Make no mistake (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 10:39:22 AM EST
    This is a pivotal moment.

    I defer completely to President Pelosie

    Parent

    I'm glad (none / 0) (#89)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 03:03:13 PM EST
    to see for some strange reason that I'm not the only one around here with a double posting problem.

    Trump looked even more orange than (none / 0) (#93)
    by desertswine on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 04:32:02 PM EST
    usual during his "major" announcement. His announcement was, in fact, nothing.

    I'm so looking forward (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 04:50:54 PM EST
    To seeing what he looks like in an orange jumpsuit denied hair spray and spray tan.

    Parent
    You win (none / 0) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 08:24:30 PM EST
    the comment lotto for this threat with that post.

    Parent
    You win (none / 0) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 08:24:30 PM EST
    the comment lotto for this threat with that post.

    Parent
    Super Blood Wolf Moon Eclipse (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 05:11:27 PM EST
    total eclipse of the moon will last an hour and 2 minutes, according to NASA, with the partial phase stretching out over 2 hours and 17 minutes. The show starts subtly at 9:36 p.m. EST (6:36 p.m. PST) with a penumbral eclipse, when the outer edge of Earth's shadow will very slightly darken the moon's face. Things will get a little more interesting around 10:34 p.m. EST (7:34 PST), when the moon enters the main, darker portion of Earth's shadow, the umbra. This marks the start of the partial lunar eclipse.

    At 11:41 p.m. EST (8:41 PST), the total eclipse begins. At this point, the moon will be entirely within the umbra, and the whole surface should appear dusky red. The total eclipse will last until 12:43 a.m. EST (9:43 p.m. PST), and the partial eclipse will end at 1:51 a.m. EST (10:51 p.m. PST). The final, subtle darkening of the penumbral eclipse will pass at 2:48 a.m. EST (11:48 p.m. PST). Weather permitting, most of the United States -- except for Hawaii and some of the Aleutian Islands -- will have a great view, Hayne said.

    sunday

    Probably going to be cloudy here

    I think it's gonna be cloudy here too. (none / 0) (#96)
    by desertswine on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 05:15:51 PM EST
    But I'm on it if it isn't.

    Parent
    I am due to be on a plane Sunday night (none / 0) (#99)
    by Peter G on Sat Jan 19, 2019 at 10:36:52 PM EST
    between 9:30 and 11, heading home from Atlanta to Philly, so I am hoping for a view from above the clouds.

    Parent
    By that time, the eclipse will be more than halfway finished.

    Parent
    The skies cleared here (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 07:37:05 AM EST
    Last night and with a fresh blanket of white snow the moon was so bright it was kind of eerie

    It was almost like "movie night" which is done with what they call day for night which means they shoot it during the day and some like me darkens the picture so you can still see all the details very much unlike real night usually is.

    Parent

    Rudy (none / 0) (#104)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 08:28:51 AM EST
    was in rare form on CNN just now, he was amped!

    It was hard to keep up but I think he implicated tRump on several occasion.

    He claimed to have inside knowledge from DOJ leaking directly to him, he repeatedly accused Mueller of suborning perjury from Cohen.

    He doubled down on attacking the father in law.

    Jam packed with multiple contradictions, wacky legal theories, ridiculous analogies, I'm going to watch it again at noon.

    Parent

    Yer a better man that me (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 08:37:40 AM EST
    I couldn't take it and changed the channel as soon as be started screeching about how Dumph never lied about business in Russia.

    Parent
    It (none / 0) (#108)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 09:00:31 AM EST
    is really hard to take, but once he goes full stream of consciousness he usually gives away a lot, if you can parse it out of the gobbly gook.

    Parent
    And (none / 0) (#140)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 03:31:44 PM EST
    the inevitable walk backs are always a hoot
    My recent statements about discussions during the 2016 campaign between Michael Cohen and then-candidate Donald Trump about a potential Trump Moscow `project' were hypothetical and not based on conversations I had with the President. My comments did not represent the actual timing or circumstances of any such discussions.
    IANAL but I'm guessing it is not good practice to make up hypotheticals that implicate your client.

    Parent
    Rudy has to be a mole (none / 0) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 07:52:16 AM EST
    It's the only explanation

    "But I can tell you, from the moment I read the story, I knew the story was false," he added.

    "Because I have been through all the tapes, I have been through all the texts, I have been through all the emails, and I knew none existed," Giuliani said.

    "Wait, what tapes have you gone through?" The New Yorker asked.

    "I shouldn't have said tapes," Giuliani answered. "They alleged there were texts and e-mails that corroborated that Cohen was saying the President told him to lie."



    Parent
    If I thought he was being careful (none / 0) (#180)
    by Peter G on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 08:41:08 AM EST
    with his words, I'd point out that "I shouldn't have said `tapes'" does not mean, "I misspoke; there are no tapes." But he's not, so I won't.

    Parent
    Legal question (none / 0) (#181)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 09:59:48 AM EST
    Is it legally sustainable to expect people to work without pay.  Beginning the second month?

    Could they really have legal standing to do anything to them if they just said.  

    No pay.  No work.

    I would really like to know because this is the most pointlessly outrageous and heartless thing I ever remember government doing.  Which goes on a long list.  When is enough enough ?

    This is wrong. Explain to me how you can force people to work without pay.

    Parent

    Didn't mean for that (none / 0) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 10:22:34 AM EST
    To sound quite so shrill

    What I mean is explain to me if you can.  Cause I really am not understanding this.

    Speaking for me personally I would not work the second week without pay.  Forget the second month.

    Parent

    I think the next "thing" (none / 0) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 08:43:43 AM EST
    Is likely to be some kind of work stoppage

    I would love to hear legal arguments for forcing people to work without pay for starting on the second month

    Parent

    He has really (none / 0) (#107)
    by Zorba on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 08:44:18 AM EST
    Gone around the bend.  (I mean, more so than he was before.)

    Parent
    Some people say it is some kind of political (none / 0) (#113)
    by ruffian on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 04:54:11 PM EST
    strategy to come out and admit guilt in stages to get people ready for the next show to drop. If so I guess that is the only strategy they have with a client that is guilty as sin of multiple crimes.

    Parent
    Remember... (none / 0) (#111)
    by desertswine on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 04:25:02 PM EST
    Do not look directly at the moon.

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#114)
    by Zorba on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 07:58:09 PM EST
    But can we moon the moon?

    Parent
    Go look at the moon (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 10:37:56 PM EST
    RIGHT NOW.

    but put your pants on first.  Brrr

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Zorba on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 10:37:10 AM EST
    We saw the moon.  Beautiful!
    Fortunately it wasn't cloudy here.

    Parent
    I hope we saw this (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 09:32:12 AM EST
    It was amazing.  When I made that comment the moon looked like a pumpkin with a silver yamaka

    It was great once I dressed for it.

    Cold but beautiful here.  The snow yesterday was wet and stuck to everything and then froze and hasn't moved

    very wintery

    Parent

    One of the football playoff games (none / 0) (#109)
    by fishcamp on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 10:22:11 AM EST
    is on tv today at the same time as downhill ski racing from Wengen, Switzerland.  Bummer.  That DH race, the Lauberhorn, is the longest, scariest race on the circuit.  It starts at the base of the famed Eiger mountain, which is a sheer wall of rock looming above.  After retiring from the team I was happy to quit worrying about it.  But no.  The next year, while filming for ABC, I had to run the course carrying a camera.  Double scary since there's no place to slow down.  After four more years of that I asked them to get a younger cameraman.

    Speaking as an L.A. Rams fan, ... (none / 0) (#115)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 10:21:01 PM EST
    ... I'll be honest here and admit that today's 26-23 overtime victory over the New Orleans Saints in the NFC Championship Game left a very bad taste in my mouth.

    As lousy officiating goes, the officials' failure in the waning moments of the 4th quarter to call a painfully obvious pass interference penalty on Rams cornerback Nickell Robey-Coleman, who clearly hit Saints wide receiver Tommylee Lewis early on a 3rd down pass attempt while the ball was still in the air, was as bad as it gets. Not only that, Robey-Coleman's helmet-to-helmet hit on Lewis was also a personal foul, which was similarly not flagged.

    That non-call, which the NFL front office has subsequently admitted was officiating malpractice, abruptly changed the game's trajectory -- and ultimately, its outcome -- by giving the Rams an undue possession in the final 1:49 of regulation that they clearly didn't deserve, which they used to tie the game and send it to OT. Because if the refs make that call properly, the Saints keep the ball, run the clock down, kick a walk-off chip-shot FG to win the game, and go to the Super Bowl.

    The officials' snafu in New Orleans will rank right up there with the infamous "tuck rule" call in the 2001 Patriots-Raiders game. Questionable officiating should never be the deciding factor in a playoff game, as it was today. And as a result, as much as it pains me to say it, it looks as though the wrong team is going to the Super Bowl.

    Now, that said, the blown call is on the officiating crew and not on the Rams, who took advantage of the unexpected opportunity and eked out a victory. I'm happy they won, but please forgive me if I also express sympathy for Saints fans because their team got royally screwed by the refs, who ruined what had heretofore been a hard-fought and well-played conference championship game.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Not a fan of either team (none / 0) (#117)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Jan 20, 2019 at 11:06:45 PM EST
    ...But the Saints got robbed on live TV.

    Parent
    With the Saints (none / 0) (#119)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 08:09:26 AM EST
    loss, I no longer have a dog in this fight. Though seeing the Patriots lose, to anyone, is always a treat. Ok, so maybe I do have a dog in this fight. Go Rams.


    Parent
    I wanted to (none / 0) (#130)
    by jondee on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 11:09:45 AM EST
    but I could never get fully behind the Saints after hearing that Bountygate audiotape from a few years ago.

    "Aim for their ACL"? Really? Talk about something that leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

    Parent

    Love them or hate them (none / 0) (#120)
    by CST on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 09:15:28 AM EST
    (And yes I know everyone loves to hate them) This patriots team is the stuff of legends.

    Bill Belichick (none / 0) (#127)
    by Zorba on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 10:42:27 AM EST
    Is the spawn of Satan.
    Not that I'm a big fan of the LA Rams, either, since they ran from LA to St. Louis and then scuttled back to LA.
    The heck with both teams.  The only reason we even watch it is it's my once a year excuse to make Buffalo wings and St. Louis toasted ravioli (which, despite the name, are fried).

    Parent
    Belichek is an evil genius (none / 0) (#129)
    by jondee on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 10:55:20 AM EST
    like Professor Moriarty or Goldfinger ;-)

    Though, Brady isn't going to have quite as comfortable a pocket to throw from when they go up against Suh and Aaron Donald.

    KC's defense was pretty putrid.

    Parent

    We don't remember this but.. (none / 0) (#142)
    by desertswine on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 03:39:23 PM EST
    the Rams actually started out in Cleveland.

    The professional American football team now known as the Los Angeles Rams was established in Cleveland as the Cleveland Rams, and played there from 1936 to 1945. The Rams competed in the second American Football League (AFL) for the 1936 season and the National Football League (NFL) from 1937-1945, winning the NFL championship in 1945, before moving to Los Angeles in 1946 to become the only NFL champion ever to play the following season in another city.  ==  Wiki


    Parent
    I swear to god (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 09:16:15 AM EST
    If I have to hear Mike Pence say "Uhmurkan peeple" one more time I will blow chunks.

    A keen competition. (none / 0) (#131)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 11:22:24 AM EST
    There is, for me, his starting of dishonest statements with "Honestly."  Always anxious to learn of his favorite MLK.jr quote.  

    And, his transfixed stare at Trump.   Perhaps, being appropriated from Nancy' s adoring gaze at Reagan.  At least Nancy could say she was the wife.  Mother may have this all wrong.

    Parent

    Rough weekend for the rush to judgement crowd (none / 0) (#128)
    by McBain on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 10:46:34 AM EST
    First the Buzzfeed debacle and then the MAGA Catholic boys/Native American activist story changed...
    In the new video, another group taunts the students from Covington Catholic High School in Kentucky with disparaging and vulgar language. The group of black men, who identify as members of the Hebrew Israelites, also shout racist slurs at participants of the Indigenous Peoples Rally and other passersby.
    The new video adds context to an encounter viewed by many as the latest sign of bigotry infecting the country. Screenshots of a smirking teen staring down Omaha tribe elder Nathan Phillips spread through the internet, sparking widespread outrage.
    But a teen who says he was involved in the encounter said the students' actions have been wrongly interpreted as racist. In a statement, Nick Sandmann said the students decided to raise their voices to drown out the Hebrew Israelites' inflammatory comments -- not to intimidate or mock Phillips. Phillips has said the teen blocked his escape.

    Originally, the Covington boys were portrayed as the bad guys.   Their race, religion and support of Trump were used against them.

    I'm not pretending to know all the important details of these two stories.  I just know it's foolish to reach conclusions based on early media reports.
     

    It's a little difficult to say yet (none / 0) (#133)
    by jondee on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 11:39:51 AM EST
    who's getting roughed-up.

    More than anything, what's going on so far looks like nothing but a lot of spin and counter-spin.

    I realize that with an ignorant, boorish slob as commander-in-chief civility and decorum have gone out the window, but at the very least it's disrespectful and rude to stand that close to a tribal elder with a frozen smirk on your face while he's performing a sacred chant.

    But I guess that's the kind of thing you do when you just know Jee-zus is just waiting to welcome you with open arms while all the heathen destined for the Lake of Fire.

    Parent

    almost incessant verbal confrontation, most of which was fomented by a small group of extremely verbally aggressive black Hebrew Israelites against the teenagers, we seem focused on one of those teenager's nervous and uncomfortable response to a grown man from a third group who purposely approached the teens and attempted to make them move away, or step back, or something, by getting getting right in their faces.

    Parent
    I would not expect you to understand (5.00 / 3) (#145)
    by vicndabx on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 04:03:22 PM EST
    How "aggressive" that damn red hat & slogan is to many of us. THAT and the fact those kids were even there, apparently poorly chaperoned, is what started this.  

    Parent
    Um, "us?" The Black Hebrew Israelites (none / 0) (#149)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 04:26:28 PM EST
    are a part of "us?" Meaning you and your group?

    Parent
    Don't be obtuse (none / 0) (#151)
    by vicndabx on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 04:31:53 PM EST
    That was three black men standing there in a majority black city.

    Why not drop the usual sarcasm and address the problem of that hat/slogan being the new klan robe with all attendant emotions?

    Parent

    three black men (none / 0) (#152)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 04:36:14 PM EST
    "We (Hebrew Israelites) were there to teach, to teach the truth of the Bible, to show them our real history," said Shar Yaqataz Banyamyan, one of five Hebrew Israelites on the Mall that day.

    The group has militant members and "a long, strange list of enemies" that includes whites, Jews, Asians, members of the LGBTQ community, abortion rights advocates and continental Africans, [and apparently women, see below] according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    Banyamyan said he and those with him Friday believe in using blunt language, but not violence. A video he posted to social media shows them insulting other marchers.

    "Where's your husband?" one Hebrew Israelite asked a woman who had stopped to argue with the group. "Bring your husband. Let me speak to him."

    At one point, the Hebrew Israelites began arguing with Native American activists, telling them the word "Indian" means "savage," according to the video.



    Parent
    religious, etc. epithets at the teens and anyone else who wandered by and started the whole sh!tshow.

    Parent
    So here you go explaining to me (none / 0) (#154)
    by vicndabx on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 04:51:24 PM EST
    I KNOW who these guys are.  I used to see them in the Bronx all the time.

    Again you don't want to address the offensiveness of that hat and the slogan to people of color.

    These guys are the real racists eh?  

    Parent

    If we've got to accept your hat (none / 0) (#155)
    by vicndabx on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 04:59:54 PM EST
    be prepared to get insults hurler at you.  Free speech right?

    Maybe civility is the way to go.

    Parent

    Bottom line, IMO (none / 0) (#159)
    by vicndabx on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 05:18:44 PM EST
    I know the black Israelites are loud and insulting, what they don't have is power. You know what they didn't do? Get in anybody's face - and you know why.

    The religious right has power in America. To think it's Ok to come to a majority black city wearing a hat that says, "let's go back to the time when you were even more oppressed" and think that is not insulting and provocative illustrates a blindness borne of privilege.  

    Parent

    They are new to me, as a specific group. (none / 0) (#158)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 05:13:18 PM EST
    Seems like lots of people standing around yelling at other people in NYC. At least more than anywhere else I've been.

    A lot of people get offended at politics. The BHIs spent hours abusing other people for any number of reasons, it may well be that they started in on the kids only because they had political hats on.

    Parent

    other people and started abusing the teens because the teens saw the BHIs abusing these other people and started defending these other people by jumping in and abusing the BHIs.
    They [BHIs] also taunted the Native Americans, arguing that the word "Indian" means "savage."

    Ephraim Israel, another Hebrew Israelite who was present, told the Post that tensions flared when the students started making fun of them.

    "They were sitting there, mocking me as I was trying to teach my brothers, so yes the attention turned to them," Israel said.

    Ya, I think I know how Mr. Israel "teaches."

    Parent
    You certainly don't need my permission to believe (none / 0) (#164)
    by vicndabx on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 06:13:38 PM EST
    whatever BS you want. I don't agree w/this groups methods, but understanding that we may not be getting the true history of things from people who've oppressed you in the past is nothing new.

    Since you seem to trust Wikipedia:

    To Pope, writing in 1734, the Indian was a purely abstract figure-- "poor" either meant ironically, or applied because he was uneducated and a heathen, but also happy because he was living close to Nature. This view reflects the typical Age of Reason belief that men are everywhere and in all times the same as well as a Deistic conception of natural religion (although Pope, like Dryden, was Catholic). Pope's phrase, "Lo the Poor Indian", became almost as famous as Dryden's "noble savage" and, in the 19th century, when more people began to have first hand knowledge of and conflict with the Indians, would be used derisively for similar sarcastic effect.[b]

    To be clear, I don't agree w/this framing of Native Americans.  My point in posting this is you may want to consider more research before jumping to conclusions.  Or don't, it's really none of my business how you live your life or what you choose to believe.

    And no, people don't walk around shouting in NYC.  What NYC does give you is an exposure to more things than you may get elsewhere, a good thing IMO.  It opens your mind to other possibilities, truths.

    Still haven't addressed the hat I see.

    Parent

    about re: "jumping to conclusions." What conclusions?

    And 2. I absolutely "addressed the hat."

    Very perplexing, maybe you don't you have the comments sorted correctly?

    Parent

    and here in a nutshell is the problem (none / 0) (#170)
    by vicndabx on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 08:04:45 PM EST
    I'm talking about how offensive that hat is and you think it's just about the politics.  I tell you that it implies so much more (klan robe and attendant emotions) and all you can come up with is
    A lot of people get offended at politics. The BHIs spent hours abusing other people for any number of reasons, it may well be that they started in on the kids only because they had political hats on.

    That's you "addressing" the hat and is an example of why we continue to have problems in this country. You're either totally ignoring, brushing off as irrelevant or missing, for some reason, what that hat means to black, brown and progressive white people. That hat is an affront to progress for those historically disenfranchised in this country. That hat is OFFENSIVE because it represents exclusionary thinking no matter how much you and others try to claim it's just politics. The reaction you see from people is not political, it is personal, existential.  That a group of white teens wore it and other garb reflecting the same slogan is even worse.

    Reducing the disagreement to something political trivializes these concerns.

    Ya, I think I know how Mr. Israel "teaches."

    This a conclusion, no? Sounds like one to me.  Hence why I posted that link on the so-called "noble savage."

    Parent

    Except that it is all politics. (none / 0) (#174)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 09:26:37 PM EST
    What will it take to win? How can we stir up the base? etc.

    Mr. Israel was one of the BHIs. What he referred to as "teaching" was him and his buddies yelling insults at passerbys.

    Parent

    Is that what nervous and uncomfortable (none / 0) (#136)
    by jondee on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 02:32:30 PM EST
    people do? Stand still with one's smirking face a foot or so away from the other persons, as if it were a pre-boxing match stare-down?

    Parent
    I think what you are missing (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 03:05:52 PM EST
    is that the grown man chose to insert himself in an already explosive situation in which he was not previously involved by purposely walking straight up to the teen and getting right up in the kid's face.

    To me, walking up to someone and banging a drum and loudly and unrelentingly chanting into that person's face - someone who obviously does not in any way speak or understand the language you are chanting - is probably not the best choice if the goal is clear and effective communication.

    Ya, I guess you never did it, but some people sometimes smile, or even giggle, when they get nervous, especially among 16 y/o's...

    Parent

    I dont really give a sh!t about this (5.00 / 5) (#141)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 03:38:04 PM EST
    But I find this persuasive

    They paid money to be driven from Kentucky to D.C. to attend the anti-choice, disingenuously named "March For Life" rally held on Friday, January 18. That's right, a bunch of teenaged boys went on a field trip with their Catholic School to join a bunch of other people who think they have the right to tell women and girls what to do with the most intimate parts of their bodies. These 15-year-old boys think they are entitled to decide for women twice their age whether or not those women should have sex, use birth control, or birth children, when those same boys would likely beg for f*cking mercy the moment they felt 1/100th the pain of one contraction. They may think on some shallow level that they are saving babies, but they know on a deeper level that it involves controlling girls and women, and that is just A-OK with them. THAT is why they were in D.C. this weekend.

    THEN, they were permitted to parade around to sightsee wearing lots of MAGA gear. I feel confident in saying in the year of our lord, 2019, that if you still support this "president" then you are either disgustingly racist, misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic, unpatriotic, or any combination of those things. Worse yet, you are not even afraid to declare you are these things. You're fine announcing it to the world. So, after they attended the rally, whose goal it was to end legal abortion for women in this nation, they walked around broadcasting via their hats and sweatshirts to any who encountered them that they also hold Black people, Hispanic people, LGBQT people, non-Christian people, in the lowest regard. We are supposed to believe they are innocent victims, the ones who were harassed and afraid, with nothing but love in their hearts, and nary a hateful thought in their mind?



    Parent
    I dont really give a sh!t about this (none / 0) (#146)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 04:04:06 PM EST
    But I find this persuasive
    They paid money to be driven from Kentucky to D.C. ...

    Thank you, that is the most perfect example I have ever seen as to how Trump got elected...

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#171)
    by CST on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 08:31:40 PM EST
    Trump got elected because enough Americans looked at Trump and decided that is who they wanted to be president.  Their reasoning may vary, but the responsibility rests on the people that voted for and otherwise supported him.  

    Even if people voted for Trump because they were angry at leftists - they are still responsible for that action and made a choice that selected Trump as the answer.  They don't get to absolve themselves of that because there is also a culture war going on.  And they definitely don't get to absolve themselves of their role in that culture war.

    Parent

    literally don't give a sh1t enough to look into any facts, they merely find what he says "persuasive."

    You know, lo/no info voters. Like people who don't actually watch this video of the incident themselves, they rely on others to do so and feed them what they think they should "know."

    Parent

    link? (none / 0) (#147)
    by leap on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 04:19:27 PM EST
    please

    Parent
    Sorry C&L (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 04:27:07 PM EST
    thank you (none / 0) (#156)
    by leap on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 05:09:17 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    That article makes it sound like they're (none / 0) (#157)
    by McBain on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 05:12:13 PM EST
    being judged because they're white, pro life, pro Trump and male.  I think that's terrible.  You can disagree with their politics, religion and other things without jumping to conclusions.

    The only real evidence we have in this situation are the videos.  Based on that, I haven't seen anything that warrants the kind of criticism they've received.  

    Parent

    I doubt anyone is surprised (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 05:23:08 PM EST
    That you think it's terrible

    Parent
    OMG (none / 0) (#184)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 10:26:53 AM EST
    Trump quotes McBain.  Who is surprised?

    Trump tweets that Covington Catholic students in viral video were 'treated unfairly'

    Please raise your hand.  Or optionally your middle finger.

    Parent

    So, four (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by MKS on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 06:09:19 PM EST
    Blacks taunt the white boys, so the white boys taunt an elderly Native American?

    That's their defense?  What their privileged mommies' PR firm came up with?

    Nathan Phillips did not verbally taunt the boys. But he somehow deserved the tomahawk chops and "build the wall" chants?  And the boys surrounding him?

    The four African Americans really have nothing to do with Phillips.  That the white privilege MAGA supporters conflate the two--and the undocumented immigrants--is a very interesting comment on white bigotry.  

    And interesting that this large crowd of privileged white boys decided to confront the elderly and lone Native American.  They did not do that to the African Americans.  Why not? This shows that mobs are essentially cowards.

    Parent

    The "privileged white boys" talk (1.50 / 2) (#169)
    by McBain on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 07:16:36 PM EST
    reminds me of the Duke Lacrosse case.  Maybe wait a bit before condemning them?

    Parent
    Why wait? (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Yman on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 10:50:05 AM EST
    Unless, you know, you think it's perfectly acceptable for these privileged, white boys to engage in racist taunts.

    Personally, I don't.

    Parent

    That smirking (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 12:04:53 PM EST
    air of superiority is all too clear.

    Parent
    They hired a PR firm (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:26:18 AM EST
    Who has the money to do that?

    And this explanation that the one boy was trying to defuse the situation is pure b.s.  His staring down and mocking smile was an attempt to defuse?  Liar. PR firm told him to say that, imo.

    Parent

    I don't know what any PR firm (1.50 / 4) (#193)
    by McBain on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:45:51 AM EST
    told anyone to do.  I don't really care.  I'd rather look at the actual evidence.  Right now, the bad guys appear to be the BHI.  It's unclear to me how much blame, if any, the Covington boys and Nathan Philips deserve.

    What is clear to me is the usual media and message board rush to judgement.  

    Parent

    That is total b.s. (5.00 / 3) (#194)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:51:28 AM EST
    You quote the one boy, and so you are looking at more than the videos.  

    Do you really think mommy's PR firm had nothing to do with that press release--the boy did not say that on his own during an interview.  It was a written statement.

    And, if you want to raise the press release as evidence of anything, I think it is fair to say it is evidence of what the PR firm had to say.  More evidence of privilege.

    I have had it with white boy MAGA hat racism.  And all those who support it.

    Parent

    Yours in an emotional opinion, MKS (1.00 / 3) (#199)
    by McBain on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 01:52:06 PM EST
    based on race and politics.
    I have had it with white boy MAGA hat racism.  And all those who support it.

    You're dragging your dislike of other people/issues into this situation. You hate what these boys represent, or what you think they represent, and it clouds your judgement.  

    Parent
    I have had it (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:39:23 AM EST
    with this white boy MAGA hat racism.

    I have heard it from the white conservative religious community for quite some time.  They perfected the "omelet" defense of genocide in Guatemala.  As in you have to "crack a few eggs" to make an omelet.  

    And, now causing the death of Guatemalan children on the border during Christmas.  And MAGA hat Cheeto himself saying the caravan of refugees are rapists and terrorists etc.  

    And, we have punk kid staring down a Native American while his buddies do tomahawk chants, and hurl taunts, including the one I heard about it being okay to steal land because that is how it is done. Is there a greater statement of white privilege than that?

    Now the great whitewash....some (greatly outnumbered) Blacks said nasty thing, so we just had to mock the Native American.

    Parent

    The boy we have been discussing (1.00 / 1) (#166)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 07:01:16 PM EST
    did not taunt the native american.

    Dear lord, you clearly did not watch the video. Literally clueless.

    The native american, and his group of camera-wielding friends, who, prior, were completely un-involved, for no apparent reason walked into the area and straight into the group of teens who were standing waiting for their bus and got right up in the teens' faces and forged their way through the crowd while beating a drum and chanting.

    You can hear multiple kids say things like "Whaaat is happening?" because it was such weird situation.

    Oddly enough, the only recorded "build the wall" comments were said by one or more of the BHIs, as they derided the teens.


    Parent

    Nathan Phillips' interview on NPR this morning (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Peter G on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 09:26:52 PM EST
    made clear that from his POV this is not true: "The [N]ative [A]merican, ... who, prior, w[as] completely un-involved, for no apparent reason walked into the area and straight into the group of teens ...." In fact, what he explained was that he saw what he thought was a racial confrontation erupting between the BHI (whom he described as a "black Westboro Baptist group") and the white teens and deliberately walked between the two groups intending to act as a peacemaker and tension-defuser with his traditional chanting and drumming. And in the middle of doing that realized it was a bad idea, that he was not being understood but rather was being ineffective.

    Parent
    to get involved. However, I don't think any of the other parties had any idea why or what he was doing, which is what I was saying.

    Parent
    Just innocently waiting for a bus.. (5.00 / 3) (#177)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 01:32:09 AM EST
    not being confrontational or antagonistic toward anyone in any way.

    It seems like it would have been simple enough for smirking boy or the adult chaperones to explain that without having to engage the services of a pr firm.

    Parent

    Chaperones? (none / 0) (#190)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:23:12 AM EST
    They have some explaining to do?

    Parent
    Yes, I watched the videos (4.33 / 6) (#189)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:21:04 AM EST
    for a long time.  So, eff you.

    You got an excuse for the tomahawk chops?

    I am sick of the apologists of racism and bigoty.

    Did you respond to my contention many just lump the African Americans and the Native Ameircans and the undocumented into one category?  What category is that?  Well, the "brown" category.

    Parent

    to suit their agenda, like you did.


    Parent
    My fault.

    Parent
    No doubt, no doubt (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by Yman on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 07:15:14 PM EST
    Ya, I guess you never did it, but some people sometimes smile, or even giggle, when they get nervous, especially among 16 y/o's...

    Others jump up and down while gleefully performing "tomahawk chops" and mocking, Native American "chants".

    Must've been really nervous.

    Parent

    And, and (5.00 / 3) (#160)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 05:19:10 PM EST
    Covington Catholic High's fight song for the Covington Colonels, apparently,includes the Tomahawk chop, right?  

    Parent
    Here's is that student's statement (none / 0) (#137)
    by McBain on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 03:00:55 PM EST
    Link
    The protestor everyone has seen in the video began playing his drum as he waded into the crowd, which parted for him. I did not see anyone try to block his path. He locked eyes with me and approached me, coming within inches of my face. He played his drum the entire time he was in my face.
    I never interacted with this protestor. I did not speak to him. I did not make any hand gestures or other aggressive moves. To be honest, I was startled and confused as to why he had approached me....

    ...During the period of the drumming, a member of the protestor's entourage began yelling at a fellow student that we "stole our land" and that we should "go back to Europe." I heard one of my fellow students begin to respond. I motioned to my classmate and tried to get him to stop engaging with the protestor, as I was still in the mindset that we needed to calm down tensions.
    I never felt like I was blocking the Native American protestor. He did not make any attempt to go around me. It was clear to me that he had singled me out for a confrontation, although I am not sure why.

    Nathan Philips, the Native American doing the drumming has a different opinion

    When I was there and I was standing there and I seen that group of people in front of me and I seen the angry faces and all of that, I realized I had put myself in a really dangerous situation. Here's a group of people who were angry at somebody else and I put myself in front of that, and all of a sudden, I'm the one whose all that anger and all that wanting to have the freedom to just rip me apart, that was scary. And I'm a Vietnam veteran and I know that mentality of "There's enough of us. We can do this."


    Parent
    You are (5.00 / 5) (#172)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 08:33:25 PM EST
    aware that his mother hired a PR firm to write that don't you? It's pretty much less than worthless.

    Parent
    Funny and pathetic (none / 0) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 11:26:04 AM EST
    My rush to judgement opinion is

    Trump is fat and he doesn't want us to know

    President Trump Posts Altered Photos to Facebook and Instagram That Make Him Look Thinner



    In Chris Christie's (none / 0) (#134)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 12:24:31 PM EST
    new book, "Let Me Finish.....", you recall---the one where Christie saysTrump is surrounded by " amateurs, grifters, weaklings, convicted and uncovicted felons" ,  Trump is reported to have coached Christie to, as he does to great effect, permit his neck tie to kiss his shoe tops.  Trump says long ties are slimming.

    Parent
    That's actually pretty funny (none / 0) (#139)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 03:21:00 PM EST
    You have a big gut so that a normal tie reaches halfway to your belt and your solution is to get a longer tie.  

    Problem solved.  No one will notice.

    Explains a lot.

    Parent

    I missed that they made his (none / 0) (#173)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 09:26:13 PM EST
    Fingers longer till Chris Hayes pointed it out.

    Parent
    COUNTERPART (none / 0) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 03:53:06 PM EST
    I hope someone is watching this besides me.  It was mostly ignored by the award shows.  Which is a crime.  It has some of the best acting you will see.
    Last night was the origin story of the split and connection of the parallel worlds.  They wisely did not spend too much time trying to "explain" it which works perfectly with the approach of minimal special effects and relying on the story.

    It's  a great story.

    STARZ's 'Counterpart' has been dealing with an extremely sensitive topic about the existence of two versions of one world. Revolving around the theory of a daughter universe, that suggests that the universe creates versions or copies of itself with every possible outcome of the decisions that we make in a situation, the topic itself has opened the space for exploration within the show. 'Counterpart', in spite of being about spy espionage, chose to stick to the philosophy behind the theory -- will one version inevitably destroy the other to claim the world as its own? The show has been trying to answer the question in Season 2 and with Episode Six, rightly named 'Twin Cities', it delves deeper into the misgivings of the theory.


    Read this review (none / 0) (#148)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 21, 2019 at 04:21:30 PM EST
    To get an idea how complicated the story line has gotten.
    I also watched the episode twice.

    tv fantastic

    Parent

    Flynn Jr is scrubbing is Twitter account (none / 0) (#183)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 10:24:38 AM EST
    Who could have predicted?

    SC (none / 0) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 10:30:39 AM EST
    Upholds Dumphs transgender ban.

    Parent
    I know (none / 0) (#187)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:03:13 AM EST
    Any Obama modernization of the military being ROLLED back as hard as Conservatives can. And of course you are privy to my other rants.

    Parent
    PACK THE COURT (none / 0) (#188)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 11:11:58 AM EST
    Fu@k Ann and Rush.

    It's pucker time.

    Parent

    SOU news (none / 0) (#197)
    by ragebot on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 01:00:56 PM EST
    Or (none / 0) (#198)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 01:04:55 PM EST
    he may take the show on the road
    White House official said on Tuesday that President Donald Trump may deliver his annual State of the Union Address at a political rally instead of the U.S. Capitol.

    CNN's Jim Acosta said that an administration official confirmed to him that the speech could take place outside of Washington, D.C. at one of Trump's signature political rallies



    Parent
    Or, give his (none / 0) (#200)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 22, 2019 at 03:41:36 PM EST
    speech in a Trump Hotel Ballroom.  A win/win.  Gives his SOTU and (over)charges the government for room rental.

    Parent