Sen. Collins and Manchin Announce Support for Kavanaugh Nomination

By Jeralyn, Section Trump Administration
Posted on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 07:31:24 PM EST
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The Senate voted today on the motion to invoke cloture on Judge Brett Kavanaugh and it passed by a vote of 51 to 49. It appears he now has the votes to be confirmed.

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Me) and Joe Manchin (D-WVA) both announced their intention to vote to confirm Judge Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. Manchin's statement is here. Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-AK)announced her intent to vote against him. Murkowski is the only Republican to vote against Kavanaugh

Senator Susan Collins went on and on in a speech on the Senate floor. Highlights (from my listening to it live): [More...]

Sen. Collins begins with a lengthy recitation of her view of Kavanaugh's rulings. She makes a lot of historical references. After praising his rulings and what she calls his moderate views and impartiality, she addresses the allegations of Dr. Christine Ford.

She says she found Ford's testimony "sincere, painful and compelling." She believes she is a sexual assault survivor who has suffered life-long trauma from it. But, she says, not one of her witnesses or anyone else confirmed her account of the party at which it allegedly happened.

Judge Kavanaugh denied the allegations. Mark Judge. P.J. Smith denied being at a party at which Kavenaugh and Ford were present. Leyland Keyser indicated she does not remember that party and she does not know Brett Kavanaugh. In addition to lack of corroboration, Collins says, no one has come forward to say they drove her home or was in the car with her. Although she says she left abruptly, no one from the party called her the next day to ask if she's ok.

Collins says the decision of how to resolve these competing claims is up to each Senator. She concludes the a "reasonable doubt" standard is not necessary. Collins believe the lesser standard of "more likely than not" should apply.

Collins then launches into support for the MeToo movement, after which she defends Sen. Feinstein and says Feinstein would never have leaked Ford's letter. She then practically deifies Chairman Grassley.

Collins says she supports Kavanaugh and will vote for him.

Manchin is likely the only Democrat who will vote for Kavanaugh.

< New FBI Report on Kavanaugh: Back to Square One | Kavanaugh Sworn In: Trump Bloviates, SNL Laughs >

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Sen. Collins and Manchin Announce Support for Kavanaugh Nomination | 49 comments (49 topical)

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Well (5.00 / 3) (#4)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 05:56:48 AM EST

I wonder what they all think now that it's been reported that Kavanaugh would not have passed a full background check? They completely jiggered it because they knew Kavanaugh was lying just as we all knew.

I (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by FlJoe on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 04:00:49 PM EST

expect dozens of these to come out

The Federal Bureau of Investigation received a notarized statement on Tuesday by alleging a drunken attack on a pickup truck, The Wall Street Journal reports.
The newspaper reviewed the redacted statement by a man who alleges Kavanaugh was "smashing the black cargo box" located in the bed of a Ford Courier pickup truck in the fall of 1986. The truck was parked on a New Haven street at the time.
"I yelled again at the person, and realized it was Brett Kavanaugh," the statement said.
The statement claims Kavanaugh was "uncontrollably, incoherently drunk" at the time of the incident.
The author of the statement says Kavanugh refused to pay for the damage when confronted at a meeting of "Truth and Courage" -- a Yale secret society where both men were members.
The statement said that when Kavanaugh was "heavily" drunk, he could become "belligerent, offensive and even possibly criminal."

not that it matters.

: Yep (none / 0) (#28)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 06:41:04 PM EST

they are going to keep coming probably at the rate of one per day now until election day. This one hints at criminal actions. Maybe there is actual criminality by Kavanaugh. Eventually it is all going to come out.

I have to say (none / 0) (#1)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 08:44:17 PM EST

The award for most blatantly craven has to go to Manchin.

I think it is going to bite him.

He's a Dem seat in WV (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by smott on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 11:27:54 AM EST

This vote might actually help him, given how backwards WV is. Like the 2-3rd most sexist state in US?

Anyway Schumer had no strategy to give Manchin cover.

I put this on Schumer.


: It might (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 01:49:11 PM EST

And I said before the vote I was ok with that.
It was the way he did it. actually waiting until Collins announces so he knows what he can get away with.
Not a good look for a he man gun owner.

: WV has the highest Trump approval rating (none / 0) (#10)
by jondee on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 01:34:50 PM EST

and the highest rate of opioid ODs.
Manchin and Co are really doing a bang-up job down there in clarifying the issues and inspiring the populace.

WV... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by Steve13209 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 01:42:34 PM EST

Once the vote was a done deal, I don't have a problem with Manchin voting Yes. He's an unreliable Dem vote, but better than the alternative until/unless someone better comes along that can be elected.

I saw some tweets about "liberal groups" pulling support from Manchin. I have no problem with groups deciding to put their money to more liberal candidates (the DNC and others can move their money to WV). That said, all WV Dems should vote for Manchin over his GOP opponent. That's a no-brainer.


Time for a new Susan (none / 0) (#2)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 08:58:43 PM EST

Susan Rice
@AmbassadorRice
Many thanks for the encourgement. I'm not making any announcements. Like so many Americans, I am deeply disappointed in Senator Collins' vote for Kavanaugh. Maine and America deserve better.
Quote Tweet
Susan Rice
@AmbassadorRice

Rice has family roots in Maine

: Nooooo! (none / 0) (#34)
by Steve13209 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 01:45:25 PM EST

Don't put up someone with DC baggage. Find a native Mainer to run. It's an issue election, not personality. Besides, the candidate gets a free $3M from that GoFund account.

Small update (none / 0) (#3)
by ragebot on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 12:43:42 AM EST

Murkowski is reported to be voting present. The reason given was related to Daines going to his daughters wedding.

Failure of leadership (none / 0) (#5)
by smott on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 10:03:32 AM EST

Schumer couldn't keep his caucus together.
Had no obvious strategy to unite caucus. Say focus on dishonesty/perjury , instead of sexual assault, give Manchin cover. Let Dems w safer votes go to town on rape culture. But protect Manchin, and unite Dems behind a theme (dishonesty/perjury) that disqualifies BK without hitting sexism hot buttons, and defangs the "he lost his composure because he was wrongly accused!" bullshit defense.

Say what you want about Manchin, but this is Schumer's failure. He needs to go. He's over his head v McConnell and is still playing the civility game that Mitch nuked years ago.
This is war, and Dems need a leader that knows it. Hirono comes to mind.

The emails (none / 0) (#7)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 10:54:40 AM EST

are coming out in a few weeks that are going to show perjury by Kavanaugh. The GOP is not going to be able to stop the drip drip drip against Kavanaugh for the next 31 days. 70% never wanted him on the court in the first place. You cannot expect not to be held accountable to the majority when election time comes around.


I've been on the dump Chuck (none / 0) (#12)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 01:51:56 PM EST

Train for a long time.

A female majority leader would be a good thing maybe. We have several


: Me too. (none / 0) (#25)
by Chuck0 on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 06:16:53 PM EST

Was that wrong?

Hopefully (none / 0) (#6)
by smott on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 10:07:43 AM EST

Harris and Hirono have successfully banked perjury. And the texts NBC revealed show witness tampering plus the perjury.

A DOJ investigation and felony indictment under a Dem House seems more likely to get BK than an impeachment quest.

Unless BK is the deciding vote to eliminate indictments vs a sitting judge. Or president.

Because that could be the ballgame. Unless Roberts flips.

I know of no reason why (none / 0) (#9)
by Peter G on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 12:46:41 PM EST

a sitting Justice cannot be indicted, as several then-sitting federal judges have been over the years.


Agree but (5.00 / 2) (#13)
by smott on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 02:00:09 PM EST

I think BK exists to remove rule of law for Trump. Or heck anyone connected w Trump.
Ignore subpoenas. Protect against indictments. Pardon anyone at any level.

I think a lot depends on Roberts now in terms of expanding (or not) executive privilege.

I'd also expect Sessions, RR and Mueller to be fired fairly soon and the investigation quashed as much as possible. No report made public.

This is the ballgame, I fear.


: Yes (none / 0) (#14)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 02:59:51 PM EST

unfortunately we are left relying on Roberts to save democracy. Depending on a conservative to do the right thing is a fool's errand for the most part. Maybe Roberts will suprise us in the end. Supposedly the legitimacy of the court is very important to him.

And it is done (none / 0) (#15)
by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 03:24:58 PM EST

A very sad day for America (5.00 / 5) (#17)
by Peter G on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 03:36:01 PM EST

by a vote of 50-48. One vote. Yes, I'm looking at you, Senator Collins.


: Yes (none / 0) (#18)
by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 03:41:03 PM EST

I waited until the bitter end before signing on to fund her opposition. I waited until this afternoon. I doubt I was alone.

: And, she gave (none / 0) (#23)
by KeysDan on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 05:05:59 PM EST

the closing argument.

And here's Mitch (none / 0) (#16)
by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 03:28:59 PM EST

Victory lap

Stroking 35%, making certain as close to 65% is boiling and seething.

He just said, "These things blow over."

: I'm still mad as h@ll about treatment of Anita Hil (5.00 / 2) (#20)
by Towanda on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 04:04:29 PM EST

so, no, this "thing" is not going to blow over, McConnell.

: As horrific as Trump is (none / 0) (#22)
by smott on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 04:25:31 PM EST

McConnell is the one who's done the most to kill our democracy. Annihilated every norm and good faith upon which our system of govt unfortunately resides. Truly a demon destroying what our founding fathers dreamed of and began.
I try not to hate anyone but Mitch McConnell tests me.
It seems unfair, these assholes rejoice in our suffering. But we can't reciprocate - it just makes us feel worse to hate back. Soul-sick.
I don't see how the country stays together now.

I really fear (none / 0) (#21)
by smott on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 04:19:09 PM EST

Significant unrest/instability after the election, should the Russians, I mean the Republicans, retain both houses. Which I suspect they will, because they must, to stay out of prison as so many are now implicated/tied up in Russian mob money. So I think the hacking will be blatant, obvious, Dem leads evaporating into Red-Shift surprise wins.
Unrest. Violence, riots. Maybe martial law.
It's actually terrifying.

: They don't (5.00 / 2) (#26)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 06:32:52 PM EST

need to win elections to stay out of jail. They have Kavanaugh on the supreme court for that.

So (none / 0) (#24)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 05:06:07 PM EST

He's confirmed.

We all knew it was likely. If seeming impossible. This is a timely thing. Two years ago something happened no one thought was possible. It just happened again.

It is exactly one month until we all get to tell them what we think about that.

The republicans will not keep both houses of congress.

And it's not going to rain toads.

This sucks. It's also the fuel the votes need.

The republicans are energized today. They will be mouth breathing again by monday. The democrats are energised today and they will be even more in a month.

There could not be a better poster boy to motivate the left. Choice, guns (which is going to matter to young voters), executive power. It's a total package.

Have a drink. Smoke a joint. Personally I did both.

All this (5.00 / 2) (#27)
by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 06:34:49 PM EST

does is make me more determined to make the GOP pay for what they have done to our country and our democracy. They may be fine being ruled by Putin but I certainly am not.


Today is literally (none / 0) (#30)
by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 10:18:54 AM EST

HITLER DAY on the History channel.

Most days are but it's Hitler all day today. This morning has been about the Hitler Youth.

Watching this will not make you feel better about politics 2018.

Jus sayin


Hitler Day (none / 0) (#31)
by SomewhatChunky on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 11:00:10 AM EST

I was in Krakow two weeks ago and spent a day at Auschwitz Birkenau.

I had seen all the photos, movies such Schindler's List and was prepared for what I was going to see. What I was not prepared for was the sheer scale of the camp. It was huge - housing over 100,000 people at one point, most of whom were starved and then murdered in an ongoing process that just kept repeating itself. Many others were just murdered on arrival.

It is an incredibly moving and powerful place to visit and if you ever have the chance I encourage you to do so.

While things are heated in America today, nothing compares to what happened in Nazi Germany. Not even close.

I am not suggesting anything anyone has said here implies that as I don't think it does in any way.

I would say that if you want to see pure evil on an unfathomable scale, go visit. It is hard to understand.


Yes, Auschwitz (5.00 / 1) (#32)
by KeysDan on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 12:16:37 PM EST

is terrifying to observe even today--man's inhumanity to man and the sheer evil that abounds. Dachau,near Munich, while much smaller (estimates of 200,000 prisoners over 12 years of the reich), was the first of the prisons for political prisoners, Jewish people, and gays. In a way, as the first and the model, I found this concentration camp, so close to Munich, to be even more diabolic.

It is important to keep in mind how Hitler and fascism came to power and how German right wing forces, lead by von Hindenburg, thought they could control him and still retain power, only to find the country consumed by evil starting with the devil's bargain of the Enablement Act of 1932. The death camps did not occur spontaneously or in a vacuum.


But (5.00 / 1) (#36)
by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 02:53:34 PM EST

We dont have ovens

Yet

The most timely part of the hours of Hitler Youth was listening to one after another after another rationalise what they did.

I doubt even chunky could listen to it without thinking about the burgeoning Trump cult.


Have to respond (none / 0) (#37)
by SomewhatChunky on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 03:50:03 PM EST

CaptHowdy,

I am not as partisan as you may think.

I discovered this site during the Duke Lacrosse case and have lurked here ever since as I enjoy reading it. As a former collegiate lacrosse player myself, I was convinced from day one the Duke Lacrosse allegations were a false - as they turned out to be. Though the national implications of the Duke case were minor, it had lots of similarities to the extensive press coverage and emotions in this case. People who had zero firsthand knowledge of the incident were ready to convict the falsely accused players as was much of the national media. A Group of 88 Duke professors placed an ad in the school's paper which assumed the players were guilty. It showed political correctness at its worst. While I could easily believe that a teammate might rape someone, there was no way myself and all of my fellow teammates would cover that up as was alleged. No way. I didn't believe the guys on Duke's team would either.

Most of the protester groups and many speakers I saw on TV willing to forego the American standard of presumed innocence were anti-Kavanaugh (I know this wasn't a trial and I agree with the way Susan Collins viewed this issue). Those protesting felt strongly about their views. Democracy is messy. I'm OK with that.

I agree with Jeralyn's posts on the Kavanaugh hearing. You can read those yourself.

I posted my comments on Auschwitz in response to your post on the History Channel's Hitler Day. My recent visit there was one of the most powerful moments of my adult life. Like KeyDans, I've been to Dachau as well. I agree with what he posted.

I don't think of people who support Trump as a cult though I respect that you may. I know from following your many comments that defeating the Kavanaugh nomination was very important to you. I know emotions are high for many.

I don't think anyone on either side should associate what is happening now in the US with what happened in Nazi Germany. If anyone wishes to do so, go ahead, but leave me out of it. It is just wrong.


I don't actually think that much (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 04:09:08 PM EST

About your politics.

And I am not emotional.

But let me try again anyway.

What people, lots of people btw, are noting nervously is how similar things happening in our country are to what happened in Germany in the 30s. Ok? The 30s.

Trumps is said, according to his first ex, to have had a book of Hitler speeches on his bed side tabke.

His tactics are so obviously taken from stories of not only Hitler but of other fascists it almost funny. So I find the idea your knickers are so twisted about my off handed little reference odd. And a little funny.

Once again for clarity, no one is suggesting we have camps or ovens. Well actually we do have camps of immigrant children but moving on.

We are suggesting we have many tactics around the press and nationalism and using particular groups as scape goats right now in our country that Hitler used that led to all that happened later.

You are correct about one thing. What is happening here can not be compared to what happened there. In the 1940s.


Associations (5.00 / 3) (#39)
by KeysDan on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 05:23:44 PM EST

of Trump with Hitler and fascism have been met by some with cries of umbrage and hyperbole. Over the top, they say, bringing more heat than light to the national conversation.

Accordingly, it was surprising and scary when one of the eminent scholars of the Third Reich and the Holocaust, Christopher Browning, recently wrote an essay that appeared in the "New York Review of Books," presenting similarities between the present and the 1930s. History providing perspectives on the present and future.

The NY Review of Books is a highly regarded publication that has been called the premier intellectual/literature magazine in the English language.


You know what I was noticing today (none / 0) (#40)
by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 05:59:38 PM EST

That I never really thought that much about maybe because I don't watch Hitler speak very often is how similar their speaking style is.

Clearly he has studied more that the speeches but the delivery.

The net has to many links to Hitler speeches so I won't bother with one but I dare you to Google and watch and not see Trump.

It absolutely eerie. Its not how normal politicians speak.


: Ok (none / 0) (#42)
by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 06:28:58 PM EST

ONE LINK

You couldn't be more wrong. (5.00 / 2) (#44)
by Chuck0 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 at 08:49:22 AM EST

Trying reading about the history of 1930s Germany. The mirrors to the current state of politics in the US are eerie (and scary).

To correct Howdy, it was not Hitler day on the History Channel. It was National Geographic Channel. It was all Hitler and Nazis all day. After the dismal Ravens game, I watched the "Final Days of Hitler." One thing that really struck me was a statement in the show of how Hitler refused to take anyone's advice or counsel. He was completely wrapped up in his own aura and beliefs. Sound like anyone today?


: Sorry (none / 0) (#45)
by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 08, 2018 at 08:58:57 AM EST

NG.
I watched a lot of it too. There were so many historical moments that rang in the moment.
One particularly kept ringing in my head. It was a Hitler quote from the final days. This might not be exactly but it's close -
"If we go down we will take the world with us"

: When I woke up (none / 0) (#46)
by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 08, 2018 at 09:01:15 AM EST

It was Hitler or Kelly Ann Conway. It was a easy choice.

Applying a "Presumption of Innocence" (5.00 / 4) (#47)
by MKS on Mon Oct 08, 2018 at 01:56:39 PM EST

outside the criminal law context just serves to entrench the powerful.

In civil litigation, that means the rich and powerful avoid accountability. How dare you challenge a person of such great reputation (or, in other words, social standing)?

Good luck trying to get documents from such entitled people and entities during formal Discovery.

And lookie here, is that not just what happened here? A truncated FBI follow up investigation and failure to obtain all the relevant documents?

So, your "presumption" accomplished its goal. Misapplied concept. Did great damage to the truth.


I think part of the disconnect (5.00 / 1) (#48)
by CST on Tue Oct 09, 2018 at 09:35:30 AM EST

Is you are looking at the end result of Nazi Germany. Most people (I think) when they compare things today to the Nazis are talking about the 1930s Nazis.

We're not at the end yet, but we've seen this beginning before. That doesn't mean the two scenarios must lead to the same conclusion.


: Thank you. (none / 0) (#49)
by Chuck0 on Tue Oct 09, 2018 at 12:22:33 PM EST

That is the exact point I have made here often. People love to poo poo ANY comparisons to Nazi Germany. One recently banned poster particularly. But as you said, they are always thinking in terms the end result or the World War II Nazis (after 1941). The real story of Adolph Hitler and his rise to power is in early 1930s Germany history.

Reality check about death camps (none / 0) (#41)
by ragebot on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 06:21:30 PM EST

Today's world is much different than the world of the 1930s.

Imagine if a few key parts of the infrastructure were no longer functioning. Start with the Hoover Dam which is key to supplying water and electricity to LA/SoCal. Add in a few other key electric generating/transmitting facilities for big cities like NY, Detroit, Atlanta (no Lake Lanier would spell Atlanta's doom), Houston, and other big cities and some key bridges/interstate crossovers and most of population in the big cities would have no way to survive.

Most of the first world has created de facto death camps in the form of cities that could not exist without fragile supply lines. Back when the Sino/Soviet block was a threat to use atomic bombs the joke was that if they hit NYC, LA, and DC it would eliminate a lot of poverty and other problems for the US.

Why bother with death camps when simply cutting off the supply of water, electricity, and food to big cities would result in a huge death toll.


: Warday (none / 0) (#43)
by SomewhatChunky on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 06:40:53 PM EST

Interesting fictional novel, written in the 80's that addresses the above scenario. Hard to get the book now, but this Wikipedia Summary is worth a look.

Intercept (none / 0) (#29)
by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 07:40:50 AM EST

EPISODE SPECIAL: THE RIGHT WON THE BATTLE OVER KAVANAUGH. CAN THE LEFT WIN THE WAR?

: Well (5.00 / 2) (#35)
by Ga6thDem on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 02:34:39 PM EST

judging by the reaction of the right today the euphoria of yesterday is gone and it's starting to dawn on them that they are still going to have to deal with Kavanaugh's problems even if he's on the supreme court. And all the handmaid references are freaking them out.
Cheri Jacobus said that this has proven that conservative women are damaged. Most of us already knew that but at least now it's getting a wider audience to those thoughts.