New FBI Report on Kavanaugh: Back to Square One

By Jeralyn, Section Trump Administration
Posted on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 01:06:05 PM EST
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Republicans assert the new FBI background report on Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh adds no new details or confirmation of the improper sexual conduct claims against him that would disqualify him from serving on the Supreme Court. They say it's time to vote. Indeed, a vote will likely occur Saturday.

The Democrats and accusers are angry, claiming the FBI didn't interview enough people -- i.e., those supporting the accusers' character and other high school and college classmates of Kavanaugh. However, the people Christine Ford said were present at the party where she was attacked were interviewed and none confirmed her account or even remembered such a gathering at which both Kavanaugh and Ford were present.

This was entirely predictable. [More...]

The renewed background check was never intended to be a criminal investigation. That's not the purpose.

Out of all the fracas surrounding this nomination, no accusations of improper sexual misconduct or excessive drinking after he became subject to ethical codes of conduct as a lawyer have surfaced. What has his temperment been like as an appeals court judge? I have no idea, but I think that would be relevant.

I certainly don't like Kavanaugh's conservative views, and I oppose his confirmation on those grounds, but I'm not willing to say someone who drank too much and acted like a neanderthal during high school and college, but not thereafter, should be disqualified from public office.

I think the Dems would have been better served splicing and dicing his appellate decisions to urge opposition to his nomination, rather than focusing on decades old but recently surfaced claims of sexual misconduct and boorish behavior during high school and college.

I predict he'll be confirmed. Which is not just bad news for the Supreme Court, but it gives Trump another win for his marginalized, under-informed base who are now energized for the November mid-terms. Shorter version: Misplayed by the Democrats.

If there's any good news in all of this, it's that for once the presumption of innocence got positive press and became a topic of discussion at water coolers around the country.

< Tuesday Open Thread | Sen. Collins and Manchin Announce Support for Kavanaugh Nomination >

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New FBI Report on Kavanaugh: Back to Square One | 126 comments (126 topical)

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A disappointing post. (5.00 / 5) (#2)
by oculus on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 03:08:43 PM EST

I agree. n/t (none / 0) (#4)
by leap on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 04:05:44 PM EST

I thought it was spot on (none / 0) (#55)
by McBain on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 09:55:37 AM EST

especially this part...

Thing is, the argument that BK is (5.00 / 5) (#75)
by Peter G on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 11:58:32 AM EST

unqualified is not based on his high school and college drinking and related sexual misbehavior. At least not directly, as far as I am concerned. If he had owned up to that behavior and given some reason to think he had outgrown it, and had gained some insight into it, I for one would probably be satisfied. In fact, to my mind, he could have denied the assault, if he had owned up to the nature of his past drinking and admitted that as a result he might truly have no memory of the worst things he did while drunk, and explained what he eventually did (and when) to get his drinking under control. (If he did this, I would not be satisfied to have him on the Court, of course, but would be satisfied as far as this accusation is concerned.) My conclusion based on the last couple of weeks' circus is based on his less-than-candid testimony trying to explain away those accusations, and the inappropriate temperament and partisan bitterness he displayed in the course of his denials.


I don't have a problem with his college/HS (none / 0) (#78)
by McBain on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 12:30:21 PM EST

drinking or his temperament during the hearing but I might have problems with his future rulings. My question is, if he doesn't get confirmed, will the one who does be any better?

I don't want an ultra conservative judge. From the limited information I've read/heard, he might be the best option Trump is going to give us. Trying to prevent his confirmation might not be the best strategy.


No problems with his lying (about drinking) (5.00 / 1) (#118)
by BobTinKY on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 08:20:38 AM EST

and the White House's insistence the FBI steer clear of this specific topic in its supplemental background check?

Evidence of his blackout drinking would tend to corroborate Dr. Ford which is why questions to witnesses (legions of witnesses according to press reports) was verboten.


You're assuming he's lying (2.00 / 2) (#122)
by McBain on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 07:24:03 PM EST

Your standard of proof is lower than mine.


: That's the biggest advantage ... (5.00 / 4) (#123)
by Yman on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 07:29:33 PM EST

... to setting the standard at "never gonna be satisfied."
But you're right. No doubt "Beach Week Ralph Club" was just a group of boys with weak stomachs eating spicy food, and "Renate alumnus" was an expression of mutual friendship and respect among Kavanaugh and his friends for the same girl.
Heh.

At least one, if not more, of the judges (none / 0) (#81)
by Peter G on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 01:38:41 PM EST

on the final list would be better, yes. Not good, but better.


Careful (1.00 / 3) (#61)
by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 10:51:12 AM EST

Words like that might get you branded as a rape apologist.


Well (none / 0) (#119)
by BobTinKY on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 09:47:38 AM EST

Kavanaugh is an ardent supporter of gun rights with an expansive view of the Second Amendment.


Expansive, as in (none / 0) (#120)
by jondee on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 03:01:10 PM EST

believing the proliferation of assault rifles is as vital for the well-being of the nation as Free Speech is.


: Exactly (none / 0) (#121)
by BobTinKY on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 07:14:37 PM EST

which explains the post.

How about lying under oath (5.00 / 5) (#5)
by Steve13209 on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 04:11:46 PM EST

Does that count? It isn't always the crime, it's the cover-up.

can you tell me which specific statement was a lie (none / 0) (#124)
by leftwig on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 08:56:42 PM EST

and what fact shows that it was a lie? I mean if I say i never drank too much that I lost control and someone else says you were loud and belligerent when drunk, where does an actual lie exist?


: "Beach Week Ralph Club" (5.00 / 3) (#125)
by Yman on Sun Oct 07, 2018 at 09:35:59 PM EST

"Most prolific contributor" is not about a group of boys with weak stomachs who are sensitive to spicy food. "Renate alumnus" is not an expression of friendship and affection, he didn't grow up in a city plagued by drugs and violence, he wasn't of legal drinking age his senior year, etc., etc., etc.

: List of Kavanaugh's Lies (none / 0) (#126)
by RickyJim on Mon Oct 08, 2018 at 08:07:21 AM EST

There are several that turn up with google. I like this one. for. He was accused of lying at a previous confirmation hearing, even before the sexual charges were made.

Heidi Heidncamp is a no (5.00 / 3) (#15)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 05:17:49 PM EST

God bless her.

I sent (5.00 / 5) (#21)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 06:02:30 PM EST

her money for her bravery. I also liked the statement about having to look at herself in the mirror.


And she didn't wait around (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 06:06:19 PM EST

With her fingers in the wind to see if she could get away with it.

And, Joe, she is not 10 points ahead.


And (none / 0) (#25)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 06:10:43 PM EST

If Murkowski votes no and Joe votes yes he should be voted out.

Absolutely.

Screw Senate control.


She (none / 0) (#26)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 06:16:14 PM EST

also puts pressure on those other two Collins and Murkowski because look at how brave Heidi was. Murkowski is probably a no. I just found out that both the governor and lt. governor in Alaska do not support Kavanaugh. So there's another no vote needed for him to go down.

Best case scenario at this point is it actually goes to a vote and we get them on record as supporting Kavanaugh with an actual vote. Many campaign ads are going to be launched from this.


I would say best case is still (none / 0) (#27)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 06:24:18 PM EST

He goes down.

Cause you know what, the yahoos may be "motivated" now but if republicans screw this up I'm bettin a whole lot of them are going to be less motivated in November


: Well (none / 0) (#28)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 06:42:55 PM EST

they seem to think Kavanaugh going down is going to hurt them in November. I guess it interferes with all that "winning" stuff. I would think even Kavanaugh getting on the supreme court would not motivate them to get off the couch. I mean after all they've "won" haven't they?
However I'm not going to worry about them. I just want everybody who is against them to show up and vote.

Heidi is toast in NoDak (none / 0) (#63)
by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 10:55:42 AM EST

This no vote is an audition for her next job. MSNBC anslyst maybe.


She has to (5.00 / 2) (#66)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 11:03:28 AM EST

look at herself in the mirror and history is going to judge anybody who puts this creepy hack on the court for a lifetime appointment. Why not point out how many Republicans are going to be toast if they vote for Kavanaugh? Because you think conservatives should NEVER be held accountable for anything they do. No mention of Dean Heller is there? No mention of how this takes McSally out of the race in AZ?

You know you have nobody to blame but yourselves for this mess.


For the record (none / 0) (#67)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 11:09:48 AM EST

This is BS

her fund raising has gone through the roof.

Wanna bet?

She will win.

This will have helped her win.


: I actually (none / 0) (#69)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 11:27:53 AM EST

think it will help her win. I was one of those that gave her money. However I like the narrative better about how she has to look at herself in the mirror when she brushes her teeth in the morning.

Imagine that (none / 0) (#64)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 10:58:08 AM EST

Not taking the politically advantageous route.

Must feel very alien.


Not Fox? (none / 0) (#68)
by Yman on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 11:20:07 AM EST

If only she was willing to engage in daily lying and tinfoil confirm theories ... and stock up on short skirts and peroxide.


Projection (none / 0) (#70)
by MKS on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 11:37:23 AM EST

Dems don't go on MSNBC.

Conservatives do go on Fox.


Pffft (none / 0) (#16)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 05:19:35 PM EST

HEITKAMP


"The renewed background (5.00 / 4) (#19)
by KeysDan on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 05:33:45 PM EST

check was never intended to be a criminal investigation. That's not the purpose." Yes, and the renewed background check was never intended to be a real background check, either.

For starters, White House counsel, Don McGhan, who has been responsible for effecting the confirmation of Kavanaugh was overseeing the FBI background check, including circumscribing the investigation. And, of course, the FBI's "client" was the White House, aka, Trump. It appears to be a hollowed out look- see into just the sexual assault allegations, made all the worse by the secret manner the report was presented even to our elected US senators.

The Republican's launched into a public relations campaign on this background report---no FBI corroboration from any of the nine witnesses interviewed, including, unsurprisingly, Mark Judge.

No corroboration, no new added proof to Dr. Ford's account. No corroboration, no added proof to what viewers watched in horror on tv....serial lying, a lack of impartiality, an injudicious temperament, conspiracy promulgation. All under oath. The SNL skit, as good as it was, had a difficult time parodying Kavanaugh's testimony. No corroboration, no corroboration, your the corroboration, but none needed to know all that is needed about Kavanaugh to know he does not belong on the Supreme Court.

It WAS "entirely predictable" (5.00 / 5) (#20)
by Yman on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 05:46:04 PM EST

That's how faux, whitewash "investigations" work. Pretend to look but don't go past the surface or dig too deep. Interview 9 people and be done with it. Skip the principal parties and their corroborating witnesses. Ignore the classmates who know what "Beach Week Ralp Club" and Ren@te Alumnus" really mean, rather than the tales told by Kavenaugh. Ignore the 20 names provided by Ramirez and the Yale classmates who were reaching out to the FBI.

What a joke.

: A farce! (5.00 / 3) (#109)
by BobTinKY on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 07:45:35 PM EST

Drinking is the CENTRAL issue when Dr. Ford's claim was Kavanaugh was drunk. That's why Kavanaugh took such umbrage when asked about his blackout drinking experiences, that's why Trump refused to allow the FBI to look into his drinking. If Kavanuagh blacks out then Dr. Ford's allegations that he was drunk and his refusal to acknowledge any involvement in such an event are assessed in a much different light.
That's why his lies about his drinking and blacking out were perjury, they were material and central to the allegations. Witnesses were willing to testify otherwise but never afforded the opportunity either before the SJC or the FBI.
Complete, epic FARCE!

Now (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 06:56:00 PM EST

Kavanaugh has come out with an editorial in the WSJ begging to be on the court. He's already shown us who he was. He will do it again until he gets help with his problems.

Democrats didn't misplay this at all. (5.00 / 2) (#44)
by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 04:10:15 AM EST

Do you seriously think the Republicans are the only party whose base can be galvanized for an election?

Look at that spontaneous Democratic turnout today in front of the U.S. Capitol in D.C. over the issue of sexual abuse and assault. Are you suggesting that mainstream Democratic opinion would similarly rally against Kavanaugh over Priests for Life v. U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services?

And I don't know what water coolers you're hanging out at, but I haven't heard anyone except the white-wing wackadoodles cry over poor Brett Kavanaugh. Rather, everyone is talking about his temper tantrum last week, his repeated failure to give a straight answer, and his lack of proper judicial temperament. Dr. Christine Blasey Ford is a hero for our times. Her testimony touched people's hearts. Kavanaugh's testimony didn't impress anybody, save maybe for this guy. People believe her. They don't believe him.

Good thing you're not leading our party. Your warrior instincts are akin to Gen. Ambrose Burnside's, staring singularly ahead at Marye's Heights at the Battle of Fredericksburg. That is, you'd drive us to our own slaughter. This isn't a criminal trial, Jeralyn. This war is being fought in the court of public opinion. And you're bringing a ball-point pen to a gunfight.

;-D

She did something you seem to be (1.50 / 4) (#57)
by McBain on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 10:02:59 AM EST

incapable of. Jeralyn put aside politics and gave an honest opinion.

You calling Ford a hero is premature. We still don't know if she's telling the truth. It's mostly been guesswork based on political bias.

I agree with Jeralyn on this...

As bad as this scandal has been we haven't had the extreme rush to judgement we had in other high profile sexual assault allegations.


The "1" (5.00 / 1) (#72)
by MKS on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 11:41:52 AM EST

is for our personal attack on Donald--that he is incapable of being objective.


As far as the presumption (5.00 / 1) (#73)
by jondee on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 11:54:02 AM EST

of innocence getting traction at the water cooler, with the ratings-obsessed media doggedly fixated on the tawdry and lurid -- and not just the media but a new generation of dirtyfighting Ken Starr and Kavanaugh wannabes as well, the presumption of innocence hasn't got a snowball-in-hell's chance.


: Agreed. In a Court of Law, (none / 0) (#79)
by KeysDan on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 12:37:02 PM EST

Kavanaugh is entitled to presumption of innocence. He is not, however, entitled to a life-time on the Supreme Court.
It is the senate that has the constitutional obligation to advise and consent to the nomination--such obligation takes on the responsibility of obtaining and vetting his professional and personal record, hearing from character witnesses (those favorable as well as any that may not be), and hearing from, and questioning, the nominee, including his refutation, where necessary, of matters to which he disagrees or was challenged.
The president has the prerogative to nominate a justice who reflects his views of the law and Constitution. Generally, deference is given to those views; however, the senate may also, in its prerogative, take those views into account.
Accordingly, the confirmation process is a political process, in the sense that it may relate to ideas and strategies. Issues of partiality, fairness to litigants coming before him, as well as questions of confidence and trust in the institution of the Supreme Court become exposed, when the nominee presents a partisan and retributive display of "what comes around, goes around."

Baloney (5.00 / 1) (#110)
by BobTinKY on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 07:48:06 PM EST

one breath "this isn't a criminal investigation" next breath "the presumption of innocence" is alive & well.

What presumption of innocence? This is testimony in a confirmation hearing, why are is anyone required to "presume" Dr. Ford lied?


Ford passed a polygraph (none / 0) (#71)
by MKS on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 11:40:37 AM EST

Kavanaugh would not take one.

In this non-criminal proceeding, that is very persuasive and shifts the burden onto Kavanaugh.

Polygraphs are good for FBI, CIA Defense Department employment issues, so why not here?

I do not believe in a presumption of innocence outside of a criminal context.


McConnell's speech (5.00 / 2) (#53)
by MKS on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 09:23:57 AM EST

on the Senate Floor is all about
grievance and hostility to the Democrats.

It struck me that this is a good example of the gist of current GOP ideology. Not about substance per se.

Murkoski (none / 0) (#54)
by MKS on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 09:44:27 AM EST

is a "no" on motion to proceed.

But vote to proceed will pass.

But GOP can only lose one more vote on final vote.


I think (none / 0) (#56)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 10:01:20 AM EST

All three of the yes votes will be no tomorrow.

Maybe not.

That's what I think.

Giving him an up or down vote is really not surprising.

Collins will announce this afternoon. If she is no I bet Flake is a no.

Manchin will do what he has to. And I'm ok with that as long as he is not the 51st yes.

I can even imagine Flake, Collins and Murk voting no and Manchin voting yes.


Ill say this (5.00 / 1) (#59)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 10:11:29 AM EST

If Collins votes yes she might as well retire.


Manchin (none / 0) (#60)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 10:13:19 AM EST

has said he will not be the 50th vote. So basically if the GOP can't round up enough votes to put Kavanaugh on the court it's their problem and he's not going to solve their problem for them.


Flake is a yes (none / 0) (#62)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 10:52:06 AM EST

It's up to Collins

Flake has decided to run in the republican primary.

Hahaha hahaha


: My gut says (none / 0) (#65)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 11:01:51 AM EST

If she was a yes she would not be doing the dramatic 3pm reveal.
As I said, if she a yes she might as well announce her retirement
That said, like Heidi, if that's what she believes she SHOULD ABSOLUTELY VOTE YES.
Heidi is willing to deal with it. ARE YOU Susan?

Well (5.00 / 1) (#92)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 05:41:31 PM EST

That sucked

On to November

I (5.00 / 2) (#96)
by FlJoe on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 06:43:08 PM EST

am beginning to think there will not be free and fair elections in the future. I have a bad feeling about this one,If Republicans think they are losing they will cheat,it's in their nature. No matter what there will be rt-fking galore from foreign and domestic sources and possibly some false flag hacking to help Democrats.

It's going to be a wild ride the next several weeks, if the Democrats do not take the house it's game over for our Democracy, full stop.


It is (5.00 / 2) (#102)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 06:57:03 PM EST

Trump and especially Pence have been spreading the "China wants republicans to lose and are interfering in the midterms"


: Here (none / 0) (#106)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 07:02:07 PM EST

VP Pence Accuses China of Interfering in Midterms, Undermining Trump

Yep (none / 0) (#101)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 06:54:10 PM EST

we have to make sure everybody votes and votes in large numbers, number so big that the GOP would have never anticipated those numbers. The entire GOP must be swamped and whipped at every level of politics. Every possible Republican must be taken out.


Holy hell (5.00 / 1) (#100)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 06:52:31 PM EST

They really have no idea what's coming for them

Chuck Grassley suggests absence of GOP women on Judiciary due to committee's heavy workload

en. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, told reporters that the Senate Judiciary Committee's inability to attract Republican women might be caused by its heavy workload, a remark the panel's chairman tried to retract a few minutes later.
"It's a lot of work - maybe they don't want to do it," Grassley told the Wall Street Journal, NBC News and other outlets, as he headed toward the Senate floor for a speech by Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine

Did you love that they found two women to sit behind Collins.

Bonus points if you can identify them

: They really don't. (5.00 / 1) (#105)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 06:59:29 PM EST

They are still whining about women in pink hats marching. I tell them those women who were wearing those pink hats are marching to the polls in November and they are not going alone.

Irrational support of gun rights (2.00 / 1) (#97)
by BobTinKY on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 06:47:08 PM EST

counts for a lot on this site

Splicing and dicing his appellate decisions (none / 0) (#1)
by Chuck0 on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 01:35:57 PM EST

was a nonstarter. The GOP and Bone Spurs's base wanted this confirmation precisely BECAUSE of his decisions from the bench.

I understand (none / 0) (#3)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 03:41:04 PM EST

there are 5 undecided GOP senators: Flake, Sasse, Gardner, Murkowski and Collins. 5 undecided is making the odds less for Kavanaugh.

Collins: a very thorough investigation. (none / 0) (#6)
by oculus on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 04:12:16 PM EST

I wish (5.00 / 4) (#8)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 04:49:34 PM EST

she would just go ahead and say she's going to vote for Kavanaugh and get it over with. I'm sick to death of her silly games. She does this with every big issue out there. Hopefully she will retire or the voters will boot her out in 2020. It's beyond tiresome.


4 is still 100% more than necessary (none / 0) (#7)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 04:47:19 PM EST

If the churches and the 1700 law professors and God only knows what else manages to work the democrats approach won't seem as mishandled.


I (none / 0) (#9)
by FlJoe on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 05:00:39 PM EST

think saying FU to egg-head professors is worth bonus points, and those churches are probably those gay loving squishes who worship some fake effeminate Jesus so F them too just for spite.


Maybe (none / 0) (#10)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 05:02:08 PM EST

Maybe

But we are not there yet.


Well (none / 0) (#12)
by FlJoe on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 05:10:16 PM EST

45+ Senators seem to be already there.


They were there when this started (none / 0) (#14)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 05:15:40 PM EST

And dicing his appellate decisions would not have changed one of them.


But (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by FlJoe on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 05:25:17 PM EST

the constant lying under oath should have, even setting aside the assault allegations.

His partisan and petulant performance last Thursday should have been a nail in his coffin, what the heck is so important about Kavanaugh anyway?


: Of course (none / 0) (#18)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 05:30:56 PM EST

But you can't possibly be surprised.
As far as what's so special, that's a great question. I been saying for months that Trump is not the only republican who is going to be asked about Russian money.
Just sayin. Again.

And egg heads (none / 0) (#11)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 05:04:09 PM EST

And squishy Christians vote. As do the people who love them.


Well, yeah, (none / 0) (#23)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 06:05:34 PM EST

but here's the thing. The only people that want Kavanaugh are criminals and evangelicals. Together they make up about 30% of the electorate. At this point I could care less what those people think. We just have to outnumber them (we do in numbers) and get to the polls to vote these jokers out.


One thing (none / 0) (#13)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 05:10:33 PM EST

It seems impossible to me that republicans who are under 90 and would like a continued career in politics are not considering what happens if they shoves this through and something really bad comes out after.

Because one thing that's clear to everyone of them is the only thing confirming him will end is republican control of congress.

I believe (5.00 / 1) (#74)
by MKS on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 11:54:35 AM EST

it likely that Kavanaugh will get confirmed. Collins will never buck her party on this issue.

And, that means Roe will be overturned.

And, the reaction will be huge and sustained.

The conservatives are in a reactionary cultural attack. It will not last and history will leave them in the dust. Many of them know it too. Their supporters are old and will die. The Youth will not stomach this cultural reaction for long.

Lee won at Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville but Gettysburg came. So it will be with the conservative cultural reaction.


: Time for the 20th Maine (5.00 / 1) (#77)
by jondee on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 12:13:05 PM EST

to fix bayonets.

: Roe is gone period (none / 0) (#76)
by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 11:59:49 AM EST

Whether we confirm Kavanaugh or not. This really isn't a fight for Roe. This is a fight about Presidential lawlessness. This is a fight for people with pre-existing conditions.
Roe is gone though.

It sure sounds like (none / 0) (#22)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 06:03:19 PM EST

Murkowski is a no.

Kavanaugh just dropped (none / 0) (#29)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 06:44:41 PM EST

A WSJ "I am not a (fill in the blank)" OPED

Can't find a link yet.

They are worried

: Yeah, I saw it (5.00 / 2) (#32)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 07:09:54 PM EST

as begging and I'm sorry honey, I really didn't mean to beat you up last night. It's just that blank blank blank happened.

: RS (none / 0) (#30)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 06:48:17 PM EST

Brett Kavanaugh apologizes for being `very emotional' in defensive Wall Street Journal editorial

One word argument for (none / 0) (#33)
by ragebot on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 07:13:47 PM EST

Murkowski.

If you don't know what it is you have not been paying attention.

Probably take me an hour or two to post it since it should be obvious to all.

Wouldn't it have been easier ... (5.00 / 2) (#34)
by Yman on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 07:32:35 PM EST

... to just post the "one word" that "should be obvious to all"?

I've been paying attention and have no idea what you're trying to get at.


ANWAR (none / 0) (#37)
by ragebot on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 08:23:10 PM EST

: Ah! (5.00 / 1) (#40)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 08:48:50 PM EST

The youtube comic or the Hindi movie?

One republican is out tomorrow (none / 0) (#35)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 07:44:19 PM EST

To go to his daughters wedding so Murkowski is all it would take.

At least for tomorrow.

No, as I read it, he will vote (none / 0) (#38)
by Towanda on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 08:39:23 PM EST

because McConnell set the vote for tomorrow morning. That leaves plenty of time to get to Montana to host the rehearsal dinner.

Now, if the votes shift a bit, MConnell may have to move the vote to Monday.

And the cotes sure ought to shift a bit, with Kavanaugh's awful oped in the WSJ, with former Justice Stevens saying to vote no, with anothe conservative judge (excellent on MSNBC) and thouusands of law profs saying to vote no, and WaPo just editorialized against a nominee for the first time in more than a quarter of a century.

But Republican Senators do not care about all that.


: Every (none / 0) (#39)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 08:43:31 PM EST

serious legal scholar is horrified at him doing an op ed in the WSJ. Kavanaugh is such a hack it didn't even dawn on him that it was inappropriate to write it nor did he realize how much more of a hack he makes himself look like going on Fox News and writing in the WSJ.

: Flake (none / 0) (#41)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 08:50:10 PM EST

Was in New Hampshire last week.

: Yes sorry (none / 0) (#42)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 09:37:10 PM EST

Wedding on Sat I guess

The possible vote by the U.S. Senate to confirm Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court could be delayed by Montana's Republican Senator.
Maritsa Georgiou, an NBC journalist based in Montana, has reported that Steve Daines will not be available to vote for Kavanaugh this weekend because he is attending his daughter's wedding.
The wedding is in Montana, and Daines will be there to walk his daughter down the aisle.
That means that any delay on Friday could push the vote past the weekend and into the following week.

Who Was In Charge of Making the Case? (none / 0) (#36)
by RickyJim on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 07:51:10 PM EST

That Kavanaugh should not be confirmed because of lying under oath and poor judicial demeanor on Sept. 27, 2018? Relying on the accusations that in his High School and College years he was a real stinker to women, is a loser. However 95% of the discussion seems to be about the latter.

The title of his very unusual op ed (none / 0) (#58)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 10:08:57 AM EST

Was not

"I did not assault anyone"

The title was

"I Am an Independent, Impartial Judge"


Did Collins, Manchin or Flake (none / 0) (#95)
by RickyJim on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 06:39:15 PM EST

address the truthfulness and demeanor problems that others have with Kavanaugh? I know that Heitkamp did cite judicial temperament in giving her reasons for voting no. Of course, if the Democrats and media had put those two issues first, those senators would have had to face them. But I agree that sex catches more attention.


: I Just Checked Collins' Speech (none / 0) (#98)
by RickyJim on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 06:51:16 PM EST

Not one word about those two issues.

: I think this is simply politics. (none / 0) (#104)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 06:59:19 PM EST

If you want to vote "yes," well, any reason will do.
If you want to vote "no," well, same thing...

FTR (none / 0) (#43)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 at 10:20:45 PM EST

we are up to 2400 law professors

They don't have votes (none / 0) (#45)
by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 06:14:22 AM EST

7:00 am, they don't have the votes

At this (none / 0) (#46)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 07:16:06 AM EST

point if they still don't have the votes then the GOP needs to pull him. It has been going on long enough.


You would think (none / 0) (#47)
by Yman on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 07:57:42 AM EST

OTOH, they're really invested at this point. My concern is how this will fire up the GOP base for next month's election if he goes down.


It's a worry. (5.00 / 1) (#49)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 08:44:52 AM EST

I have decided even if that's true it's worth it. It worth it for no other reason to see a sputtering Yertle the Turtle red faced and bug eyed trying to explain it to the inmates.

I agree it's possible confirming him could be politically a better outcome for us in the short run but

I really really really want to beat Mitch.


Consider this (none / 0) (#50)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 08:47:27 AM EST

How many people SAW THAT on his shoe before he got to the steps

And said nothing.


: Sorry sorry (none / 0) (#51)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 08:47:57 AM EST

Wrong thread

You know what? (none / 0) (#48)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 08:10:47 AM EST

At this point I could care less about the GOP base and more about the country. Probably from a political point the best thing for the Dems is if Kavanaugh is put on the court because we could point to him for literally decades as an example of how decrepit the GOP is. However what would having him on the court for decades do to the country? I mean this guy believes in unlimited power for GOP presidents.

And I'm not so sure him being pulled is going to make the GOP base show up. They will be angry but whether that means anger to show up or whether it means anger and sit home because the GOP could not deliver on the impossible they have been promising their base for decades.


Good to remember (none / 0) (#52)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 08:59:50 AM EST

This is a procedural vote.

A yes today is not a yes tomorrow. It's Yes to VOTE tomorrow


In Case You Missed It (none / 0) (#80)
by RickyJim on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 01:13:00 PM EST

Kavanaugh in 2015

to be a good judge and a good umpire, it's important to have the proper demeanor.To keep our emotions in check. To be calm amidst the storm. On the bench, to put it in the vernacular, don't be a jerk.

Sounds like a, (none / 0) (#82)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 02:05:49 PM EST

YES

"keep your emotions in check" (none / 0) (#83)
by KeysDan on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 02:32:51 PM EST

Kavanaugh's raw display of emotions at last Thursday's confirmation hearing seemed more than normal emotions. He seemed to be demonstrating an impaired relationship with reality as a result of severe stress and anxiety. He came across more as being unhinged than being obnoxious, as we attribute to a "jerk". Breaking down over your father's calendar keeping, for example, is something more than emotional.

More commonly, we think of emotions within the basic scheme of joy/sadness, anger/fear, trust/distrust, or surprise/anticipation. Kavanaugh's "emotions" were not the joy of holding your newborn for the first time; the sadness of seeing a little refugee boy being washed up on the shore; or the anger and fear of the 9/ll attack. To me, this was more an unsettling manifestation of rage bordering on the crazed.

It must be heartbreaking to watch (none / 0) (#84)
by desertswine on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 02:39:53 PM EST

Collins speak for the people who may have had hopes in her yet hadn't realized what a poser she is.

Listening to Susan Collins' (none / 0) (#85)
by caseyOR on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 02:45:30 PM EST

apparently never-ending speech about her a decision on Kavanaugh. If she is not voting Yes this will go down as the biggest psych out speech in Senate history.

: 45 (none / 0) (#86)
by FlJoe on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 02:55:21 PM EST

minutes of pretending that she cared about something beyond straight Republican dogma, just as partisan and deceitful as the man she has saddled us with.
Manchin just folded.

: The best comment I've read regarding (none / 0) (#91)
by vml68 on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 05:34:38 PM EST

Collins' speech
If Susan Collins had my back in a knife fight, I'd save time and stab myself in the front

Manchin caves (none / 0) (#87)
by jmacWA on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 03:06:03 PM EST

Looks like he is in based on the latest on my local news

Game (none / 0) (#88)
by FlJoe on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 03:21:43 PM EST

over, today is a dark day for our democracy, mark my words.

tRump and the GOP keep getting away with murder they will not stop now.


Yep (5.00 / 1) (#90)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 03:46:24 PM EST

we had all better show up and bring a friend to vote in November because democracy is on the ballot.

On a brighter note this probably gives Stacey Abrams the governorship in GA.


True (none / 0) (#89)
by jmacWA on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 03:31:40 PM EST

There are spineless politicians on both sides... Granted the (ᴙ)s have the market cornered but there should be no redemption for Manchin... he is 10 points ahead.


: Maybe not for long (none / 0) (#93)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 05:44:03 PM EST

Money talks (none / 0) (#94)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 05:57:29 PM EST

Susan Collins caves, will cast deciding vote for Kavanaugh. Chip in to defeat her in 2020.

what??? (none / 0) (#99)
by BobTinKY on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 06:52:30 PM EST

"The renewed background check was never intended to be a criminal investigation."

and

"If there's any good news in all of this, it's that for once the presumption of innocence got positive press and became a topic of discussion"

This was never a criminal proceeding to which a presumption of innocence attached.

Then what is the standard? (none / 0) (#111)
by McBain on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 08:24:24 PM EST

.... it might have happened? If that's the standard think how easy it will be to ruin someone's career/life. Just make an accusation from years ago that will be difficult to investigate.

I don't know if Kavanaugh will be a good SC judge but I'm glad his confirmation wasn't decided by unproven allegations. That's why I agree with Jeralyn's "if there's any good news..." comment.


: Neither witness is entitled (5.00 / 2) (#113)
by BobTinKY on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 08:30:45 PM EST

to any presumption in this process.
You saw (in all likelihood) Kavanuagh's non answers about his drinking, his rudeness to Sens Whitehouse & Klobuchar. His drinking and history of blackouts were central to the allegation, he sidestepped and bullied his way through those question. Then the White House kept Kavanuagh's drinking out of the supplemental background probe and denied access to witnesses to his drinking.
Absurd.

Are we (none / 0) (#103)
by BobTinKY on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 06:58:24 PM EST

to presume Dr. Ford lied?

I believe the correct assumption (2.00 / 2) (#114)
by McBain on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 08:33:04 PM EST

is we don't know what happened and shouldn't take either one's word for it.


: It is (5.00 / 1) (#117)
by BobTinKY on Sat Oct 06, 2018 at 08:17:31 AM EST

sarcasm.

Kav's job in face of credible allegations (none / 0) (#107)
by BobTinKY on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 07:14:20 PM EST

Keep Trump from pulling his nomination - hence the Judge's last week's Trumpian outrage, so called "credible" outrage,
Get 51 votes in Senate, hence WSJ op ed apologizing for #1

Another successful right wing power play. Win at all costs. Next up, Kav joins other 4 GOP appointees in holding Presidential pardon relieves the pardoned individual of any state criminal liability.

2020 and 2022 (none / 0) (#108)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 07:30:03 PM EST

I know but stay with me

Cook political report

Given that control of the House is teetering and the battle over the 51-49 Senate is just short of hand-to-hand-combat, it may seem odd to be thinking about the 2020 Senate elections. But there is good reason to look ahead.
The disproportionate Democratic Senate exposure in 2018 is almost the mirror opposite of what awaits in both 2020 and 2022 (though of course whichever party wins the presidential race in 2020 will have to deal with the midterm-election curse in 2022). In 2020, there are 21 Republican Senate seats up to just 11 for Democrats, not counting the Mississippi and Minnesota seats held by Hyde-Smith and Democratic Sen. Tina Smith, respectively (both seats, created by vacancies, are up this year and again in 2020). The numbers in 2022 are very similar: Twenty-two Republican seats are up to just 11 for Democrats.

Yeah (none / 0) (#112)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 08:29:03 PM EST

I think 2020 is going to be a bloodbath for the GOP. I will work hard to get rid of David Perdue in 2020 and Isakson having Parkinson's is probably going to retire and he's up in 2022. It's not looking good for the GOP in GA these days and they know it.


By 2020 (none / 0) (#115)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 08:46:57 PM EST

We are going to know everything Mueller knows.


: The GOP (5.00 / 1) (#116)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 09:17:34 PM EST

really has no idea what they have done, none whatsoever. They said the same thing in 1992 that we wouldn't show up, we would forget etc. This time it is going to be way bigger. We are going to make them pay for quite a few election cycles until they get the message.