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Friday Open Thread

There are many things more interesting in the world to discuss than Donald Trump, that don't leave you wanting to take a shower.

Univision/Netflix has announced the lead for its new original series based on the life of Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman-Loera that will air on Univision beginning April 23. He is Marco de la O. Here's his twitter page. He certainly looks the part, although he appears to be Colombian.

Telemundo's El Chema, very very loosely based on El Chapo, is now in its final episodes. It was really well done, all of the characters were well cast and interesting. It will leave a big hole in my TV viewing when it ends. Last week Chema formed a partnership with a corrupt DEA agent and a CIA agent in Central America and the Contras to get his cocaine into America. [More...]

Next up on Telemundo will be a remake of El Capo, the incredible Colombian series that ran 3 seasons. I don't think the lead in the Telemundo remake is anywhere near as appealing as Marlon Moreno who played Pedro Pablo León Jaramillo, and it will be hard to see others in the roles of Maria Adelaida, Katherine Velez, and Marcela Mar. But since it takes place in Mexico and Central America rather than Colombia, maybe the stories will be sufficiently unique to make it worth watching.

On Netflix: Ingobernable, with Kate del Castillo, playing the First Lady of Mexico on the run as she's suspected of killing her husband (Vanity Fair Review here), and a new season of Grace and Frankie starts today. What I won't be watching: Narcos, which uses law enforcement as consultants and tells it stories through that lens, while taking far too much license with the facts.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome, TV related or not.

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    More interesting things... (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 02:06:31 PM EST
    Good article in the latest Rolling Stone about the about the research and underground practice of psychedelic healing.

    Knowing someone in the throes of the opiate addiction epidemic, the ibogaine treatment is especially interesting to me.  It's a god dam crime their aren't legal ibogaine clinics all across this country with licensed physicians administering this potentially life saving therapy to addicts who want it.

    Well, what did Charlie Parker say.. (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by jondee on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 02:43:43 PM EST
    you can get it out of your body, but you can't get it out of your mind.

    Substances like Ibogaine and Ayahausca seem to help some people, maybe not get "it" out of their minds, but expand their cognitive/neuronal potentials enough to make the mental aspect of addiction a lot less burdensome.

    Loving friends and family, nature, and creative self expression are the other secret healing ingredients.


    Parent

    I'm trying Ringo... (none / 0) (#81)
    by kdog on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 11:25:22 AM EST
    Gotta admit I'm not as enlightened as I should be in regards to looking at it as a disease, especially when it's someone you care about deeply.

    For the friends and fam, it's an emotional roller coaster. Sympathy, love, and a desire to nurture one minute...hurt, anger, and a strong desire to kick the sh1t outta them the next. But I'm trying.

    Parent

    I know what you mean.. (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by jondee on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 12:10:38 PM EST
    Brother do I know what you mean. We've lost two young family friends in the last five years. What a f*cking nightmare.

    It's one of those total cliches that also happens to be true that the addict really has to want to stop. Then he or she has to somehow tear themselves away from their little network of enabler friends and the whole "life style". Which is usually the trickiest part. There is a lot of help and support out there, but you've got to make the effort to seek it out.

    Gradually tapering off with the Methadone program with a lot of loving support is probably the best game in town right now. Though it's far from the ideal. Hang in there, brother.

    Parent

    Thought we had a breakthrough... (none / 0) (#91)
    by kdog on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 12:34:54 PM EST
    Got him to a doctor, got a script for those opiate blockers/withdrawal pills of which I forgot the name...but the enablers and lifestyle you mentioned quickly consumed him yet again.

    The powerlessness is the hardest part I think...not being able to do for them what they can't or won't do for themselves. Hell yeah the cliche is true.

    Yep yep...the stuff of soul crushing total nightmares.

    Parent

    Suboxone? (none / 0) (#95)
    by jondee on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 12:55:13 PM EST
    I can tell you from intimate experience that that stuff is problematic at best for a number of reasons. As you found out.

    The Methadone program is really the way to go; even though it has many sucky features.
    Do you have Narcan-Naloxone on hand? I hope so.

    Parent

    Suboxone (none / 0) (#100)
    by MKS on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 01:21:58 PM EST
    Nasty stuff. Very addictive. Can harder to kick than the big h itself.

    Parent
    What I've seen the most (none / 0) (#102)
    by jondee on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 01:45:13 PM EST
    is addicts immediately taking the suboxone out on the street and using it to get heroin.

    With the methadone you take it there, see a counselor regularly, and have to go to participate in groups. At least for the first few months.

    Parent

    The best thing would be a very (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by jondee on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 01:48:14 PM EST
    well run tapering off program with clean heroin. I'm convinced of that.

    Clean heroin has many less bad side effects than methadone.

    Parent

    The next time we're all in Rome together (none / 0) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 03:21:43 PM EST
    You can almost think (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by jondee on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 03:38:58 PM EST
    that you're seein' double, on a cold dark night on the Spanish stairs..

    Parent
    The Spanish steps have a guy (none / 0) (#151)
    by fishcamp on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 09:02:59 AM EST
    at each end of the widest flair of the steps, before they taper back towards the top, that sells heroin.  They've been there every time I climbed the steps during the last 50 years.

    Parent
    TrumpCare down in flames. (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 02:54:03 PM EST
    Who will cheeto blame for his failure (again)?

    Trump blames . . . (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Towanda on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 03:30:17 PM EST
    the Democrats, in calls to the NYT and WaPo.  

    (Those would be the dishonest and failing NYT and WaPo.)

    Seriously, he blames the Democrats for not killing their own law, just because he orders it.  Not that he or Ryan ever met with Democrats on this bill.

    And his base will eat that up.  Heck, we all know who will agree with him on this blog and blame the Democrats.  3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . .

    Parent

    They're in seclusion and in deep reflection (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by jondee on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 03:50:29 PM EST
    at the moment..

    While we're left alone here to ponder what Obama knew and when did he know it?

    Parent

    on a serious note (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 04:17:45 PM EST
    i believe it really is starting to sink in for some not completelr addled.

    i have noticed a real shift in attitude with some Trump supporters.

    it started with "i just wish he would shut up' and has gone downhill from there

    Parent

    I have noticed (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:15:32 PM EST
    the supporters around here have become quiet. That's fine with me. Their preening, screaming and bullying was really annoying.

    Parent
    Congressman Adam Schiff: (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by KeysDan on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 04:21:48 PM EST
    Art of the Squeal,  I blame Democrats for a bill the Republicans could not pass, I blame Obama,  I blame the Australian PM, I blame Meryl Streep.

    Note: to Republicans, Never let Trump drive your truck, he will take you off the cliff, and you can do that all on your own. Trump is only good at loud horn blowing.

    Parent

    Really dislike the news coverage right now (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 04:17:27 PM EST
    "Dems celebrate Obama signature legislation surviving". Nothing about how terrified many of us have been these past 2 days. And Jake Tapper had a 6 person panel but claimed only one of the panel was on Obama care. WRONG! Every single person in this country is on Obamacare. Before the patient's bill of rights portion of Obamacare ALL OF US were being denied by our insurers. Even soldier families on Tricare. What are these idiots smoking?

    I can never, I am incapable of forgetting the first thing Obama did. The first thing he did was stop insurers from denying sick children coverage of their procedures and doctors immediately called the shots again on what services the children received. Tricare used to actually tell Josh's doctors no...not authorize their requests, and the care halted right there! We are all part of the ACA now. All of us.

    Parent

    I made that point (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:18:55 PM EST
    with my freedumb rep's office. I said do you understand cost shifting? No, they said they did not know about that. I said do you like getting your mammograms paid for? I do but oh, yeah, you have insurance that will pay for mammograms anyway. Those of us in freedumb's district he's fine with us paying 2K for one.

    Parent
    "Starry-Eyed Wars VII: The Farce Awoke": (none / 0) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 06:58:16 PM EST
    "Sometimes you're playing Fantasy Football and sometimes you're in the real game. We knew the president, if we could get a repeal bill to his desk, would almost certainly veto it. This time we knew if it got to the president's desk it would be signed."
    - Rep. Joe Barton (R-Bonnie and Clyde Country), explaining to reporters today how reality had so rudely intruded on the GOP's 7-year-long political fantasy of repealing Obamacare without political consequence

    I blame the Deep State.

    Parent

    I blame the Deeper State (none / 0) (#93)
    by jondee on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 12:45:38 PM EST
    and the reptilian overlords who are in turn controlled by the gnostic Archons described in the ancient Nag Hammadi papyri.

    Parent
    Does Paul Ryan survive this Presidency? (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 07:11:35 PM EST
    I notice his district is listed as swing.

    Parent
    Towanda (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:19:48 PM EST
    needs to stop by and explain that district to us and why they keep reelecting Paul Ryan if they are a swing district.

    Parent
    Hopefully (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:29:33 PM EST
    If she hasn't been run off so this place can become a rightwing circular argument with itself.

    Parent
    You and I have (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:31:39 PM EST
    apparently been put on the "mean girl" list because we attempt to use facts and don't concern troll.

    Parent
    Thou wayward... (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by desertswine on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 11:31:40 PM EST
    The question is... (none / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 02:04:47 PM EST
    does he survive the primary.

    Parent
    The wingers tried to get him ... (none / 0) (#114)
    by Yman on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 05:10:59 PM EST
    ... in the last primary after the Donald had a tantrum.

    How'd that work out for them?

    Parent

    Well, Trump was elected (none / 0) (#148)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 08:54:33 AM EST
    Was that your question?

    What happens next? Well, the Trumpster plays a long game.

    Parent

    Of course it wasn't (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Yman on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 09:55:05 AM EST
    But since you can't address my point, you reply with a straw man, as usual.

    Unfortunately for you, there's no electoral college (or Russians) to help Ryan's opponent.

    "The Trumpster" has no game ... long or short.  He has neither the knowledge not the willingness to put in the hard work and learn the policy or process.  He's just a snake oil salesman with a shrinking group of clueless dupes.

    Parent

    You made a point? (none / 0) (#164)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 02:24:04 PM EST
    Do you actually find it unique that Trump lashed back during the primaries?

    And The Donald has something. He is now The President and Hillary is now gone.

    And you are reduced to defending Obama's illegal snoop on US citizens.

    Oh well, maybe Obama can open up Iran by giving them something....oh...wait...he's already done that...

    lol

    Parent

    I did - several, in fact (5.00 / 4) (#167)
    by Yman on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 02:48:41 PM EST
    I'll recap, since you can't deal with them:

    1.  Your Tea Party made impotent threats to Ryan in the last election - didn't work for ya.
    2.  Trump has no "long game".  He's a snake oil salesman who can't deliver on his ridiculous promises.  He also lies regularly and even his dupes are starting to realize it.
    3.  You Republicans need fake news and the Russians to get elected, not to mention the electoral college.
    4.  The far right platform you guys are trying to ram through is backfiring.  The actual people are responding - see you in 2018 and 2020.
    5.  Your baseless, tinfoil conspiracy theory about Obama is a joke.  You can't even cite the statute you claim Obama has violated.

    Let me know if you need help with any of those.

    Parent
    I guess the best thing I can do for you (none / 0) (#173)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 06:47:56 PM EST
    is to put you in a time out. Your blathering's are not worth the time.

    Parent
    What yman said was far from blathering.. (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by jondee on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 08:53:43 PM EST
    if engaging in an honest debate is too daunting for you, you can always go back to posting Sambo pictures on your blog.

    Parent
    Facts - reality (none / 0) (#177)
    by Yman on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 07:42:28 PM EST
    Hard to deal with, huh, Jim?

    Parent
    Still (none / 0) (#166)
    by FlJoe on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 02:36:26 PM EST
    can't name the crime, I see. Change the subject to Iran......weak.

    Parent
    Pay attention this time (none / 0) (#174)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 06:56:15 PM EST
    He knew US citizens privacy was being violated by the expanded circulation of the intell info.

    He did nothing.

    That's a crime.

    Classified information is circulated on a "need to know" basis. Now, watch the bouncing ball.

    17 days from his leaving office he suddenly finds all these additional agencies who need the info?

    Not hardly. He has obviously violated the laws regarding handling secret info.

    Parent

    You (none / 0) (#175)
    by FlJoe on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 07:32:09 PM EST
    mean this
    In January, the Obama administration completed bureaucratic work on a change that had been set in motion by President George W. Bush more than eight years earlier. It permitted the N.S.A. to share access to certain streams of raw 12333 surveillance with the other 16 intelligence agencies. This permits the other agencies to search through that repository directly and apply minimization maskings themselves, rather than relying on N.S.A. analysts to spot anything relevant and disseminate it to them in intelligence reports.
    Personally I think it sucks, but it's nowhere close to criminal. For that matter how can there be a coverup, when it was being reported in the NYT in real time?

    If it's so illegal why doesn't your boy Trump get on the phone and rescind it? Why doesn't his tool Nunes raise the same holy hell you are?

    Let me give you the simple answer, there was no crime.

    Parent

    So it only took them 8 years and then only when (none / 0) (#182)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 09:56:47 PM EST
    they wanted to try and embarrass Trump's transition team.

    That dog doesn't even get off the porch, much less hunt.

    And all it takes is some smart prosecutor to show that none of these names had any reason to be suspect and that Obama's people had failed to carry out minimization maskings and you're looking at jail time.

    Face it. Your Demo demi-gods have been on a search and destroy mission....of the country.

    Parent

    STILL no statute? (none / 0) (#183)
    by Yman on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 10:12:37 PM EST
    Because it doesn't exist.  Your claim of a crime is nothing more than a wingnut, tinfoil conspiracy theory.  But if you think all it takes is a prosecutor, by all means - let's place a bet on it.

    BTW - We're saving this country from an orange, snake oil salesman and his clueless followers - who are growing fewer by the day.

    Parent

    Causing (none / 0) (#185)
    by FlJoe on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 05:46:50 AM EST
    embarrassment is now a crime? Be careful Jim, you maybe currently committing a felony on yourself.
    If I was your dog, I would be hiding under the porch in shame.

    Parent
    Go back and understand (none / 0) (#191)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 09:35:11 AM EST
    and that Obama's people had failed to carry out minimization maskings and you're looking at jail time.

    That's the crime.

    Parent

    Wrong again (none / 0) (#196)
    by FlJoe on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 11:27:03 AM EST
    from the NYT

    The government puts "raw," or not yet processed, emails and phone calls it intercepts into repositories that intelligence analysts then query in search of messages relevant to what they are working on. They can search the repositories using keywords or the names of people related to their investigation, including the names of Americans.

    When writing surveillance-based reports for broader dissemination within the intelligence community, analysts are supposed to "minimize" any privacy intrusion into Americans. Generally, this requires them to "mask" any names and private information about Americans. For example, a report citing Ivan's phone call with Joe might recount what Ivan said to "U.S. Person 1," rather than using Joe's name and remarks.

    When might an American's name be unmasked in a report?

    Minimization rules make an exception to the masking requirement if the American's words and identity are necessary to understand foreign intelligence. This exception would seem to cover keeping Mr. Flynn's identity and words unmasked in disseminated materials about his conversation with Mr. Kislyak.

     

    There is no evidence that such improperly unmasked reports even exists, but in any case unmasking is a judgement call, apparently made at lower levels within the agencies. There is no crime.

    Parent

    freedom's just another word (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 04:13:55 PM EST
    "First Failure (none / 0) (#12)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 04:16:22 PM EST
    ... in Chief"

    Parent
    moments ago (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 04:19:38 PM EST
    i screamed at a family a-hole from the deck of my sisters house

    "HEY HOWZ THAT REPEAL OF OBAMACARE GOIN?"

    Parent

    You are bad! (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:20:28 PM EST
    They are going to destroy (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 06:58:03 PM EST
    ACA regulations now one at a time

    Parent
    people are paying attention (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 07:08:31 PM EST
    they just heard Trump say 'fine, just watch Obamacare die'
    i dont think the millions of people whos lives are hanging in the balance are going to be happy about that.
    and i dont think they are going to be confused about who to blame for that.
    it wont be Nancy Pelosi or Obama.

    Parent
    We have to ride every single attempt (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 07:15:13 PM EST
    All the way in. Neither Pelosi or Schumer are blinking a bit either. Saw Schumer tonight, what does he know? He acts like Trump has a foot on a landmine.

    Parent
    Nancy Pelosi is a legislative bad-ass. (none / 0) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:39:45 PM EST
    She knows how to count votes and corral her caucus, and she knows when to stand firm and not interfere when her GOP counterparts are making a mistake. Accordingly, she got to watch Ryan and Trump huff and puff and blow themselves blue in the face over these last few days, and then she took a victory lap afterward.

    Vigilance is an eternal responsibility.

    Parent

    Well, Paul Ryan (none / 0) (#4)
    by KeysDan on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 03:05:07 PM EST
    is a good candidate, of course. Anything will work with the Trump base.  And, we need to be on the lookout for the latest distraction.  Comey was spotted going to the White House today for an unscheduled "routine meeting."  Maybe something along those lines of arrangements for a farewell party.  However, it seems as if most the American people are getting to develop a multi-consciousness, and be able to keep Trump and Trump lumpen all in mind.

    Parent
    "You're Fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (none / 0) (#10)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 04:10:04 PM EST
    He (none / 0) (#18)
    by FlJoe on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 04:30:58 PM EST
    was just on and seemed rather contrite(Comey hangover?), conceding this legislating thing was hard (he learned it was arcane!). He really didn't blame anybody just said he would go back to his plan A and let(force) Obamacare to explode.

    I am hoping Comey went to the WH to inform them of an imminent arrest, I'm guessing Flynn....more to come.  

    Parent

    The lout actually made me laugh (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Towanda on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 05:32:33 PM EST
    for the first time in months, when he informed the American public that it turns out there are rules -- I say roolz! -- in Congress.  Gosh, that could be the reason for the House Rules Committee and the Senate Rules Committee.

    However, this line of the lout's was in the context of his comment that this process was hard work -- I heard an echo of Dubya's "harrrrd worrrk" -- after all of two weeks, wow, and was a learning experience for the lout and and his staff.  Yeah, that's exactly the problem . . . and he does not seem to be the sort to learn from others, ever, and especially at seventy years old.

    This also shows his lack of wisdom in selecting a governor and not a member of Congress as VP. Obama recognized his lack of experience in Congress, after little more than a year, and went to Biden.  (Similarly, JFK went to LBJ.)  But the lout has a former member of Congress as his head of Health and Human Services, who was in a bar in NYC yesterday, not in DC.  

    Either this is the gang that really cannot shoot straight, or this was the plan -- as now, the president of only some of the people says he will just let the ACA "explode."  Let suffering abound! And to ensure that, watch what comes next: sabotage of the ACA?  That would be the loutish, thuggish thing to do, from his history.

    Parent

    To be fair (none / 0) (#21)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 06:15:57 PM EST
    Pence was a six term member of Congress before he was governor of Indiana.

    Parent
    There is a big difference between ... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 07:15:59 PM EST
    ... being a member of Congress, and being a member of Congress who actually tries to accomplish something.

    Pence never went to Washington to legislate and improve people's lives. Rather, he was an integral part of the GOP's hard-right "No!" caucus and as such, his primary purpose on Capitol Hill was to throw sand in the government's crankshafts.

    That's why he proved to be such a lousy governor. He came to the Indiana State House expecting to rule, and was surprised to learn that people were expecting him to, you know, actually govern.

    Leadershipping and governating are really hard work.

    Parent

    Never said he was a good congressman (none / 0) (#54)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 10:23:41 PM EST
    What is it (none / 0) (#42)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:23:03 PM EST
    with Republicans and their constant whining about hard work?

    Parent
    Some speculate Flynn is cutting a deal (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 07:05:48 PM EST
    I certainly think he can turn on a dime :)

    He can lose part of his military retirement too because he was an agent of a foreign nation. Turns out you can't be educated by this nation's military at taxpayer expense, know all it's secrets at taxpayer expense, be receiving a military retirement at taxpayer expense, and then choose to be an agent of a foreign nation.

    Parent

    This (none / 0) (#31)
    by FlJoe on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 07:32:21 PM EST
    continues to play out like a bad spy novel. Manafort, Page and Stone all announce that they are willing to testify to the the committee....on the same day. Meanwhile Nunes is doing his best to throw the committee into chaos, threatening its ability to function at al.

    Parent
    Schiff is too competent? (none / 0) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 07:36:13 PM EST
    Must destroy this committee any way possible.

    Parent
    Schiff (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by FlJoe on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 07:46:46 PM EST
    is sharp, Nunes is a dunce but he is playing a useful idiot for Bannon.

    Parent
    when I think (none / 0) (#44)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:26:54 PM EST
    about Nunes being elected from CA it makes me feel better with some of the people we have elected here in GA. Really it shows the entire GOP has been infected with Dixie Influenza.

    Parent
    I (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by FlJoe on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 08:43:43 AM EST
    keep wondering why he was on the HPSCI much less being named chairman, his education and background were in agriculture.

    That being said I don't think he is really is that stupid or that much over his head, he has been around the block in DC for 14 years including 6 years on this committee. He knows exactly what he is doing.

    I am becoming more and more convinced this whole thing is being orchestrated by Bannon to destroy this avenue of investigation. Blatant deconstruction is his style, legality or ethics be damned.

    Nunes sold his soul to Bannon when he joined the transition team. Since day one he has been double dealing, privy to much of the growing evidence of Russian malfeasance and probable links to tRump all while working directly for him. He should have recused himself from day one and IMO, guilty of obstruction of justice.

    Nunes is not a dunce, he is a willing pawn in a very evil game. I wish I was being hyperbolic but this country is drowning.

    Parent

    Could you please explain how having (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 09:46:31 AM EST
    Manafort, et al, volunteer to testify destroys the investigation?

    I mean what it does is allow your Demo heroes ask all the questions they want.

    This whole thing is collapsing around you.

    Sooner or later some Demo in Obama's admin will have to explain what Obama knew and when he knew it.

    That's when the fun starts.

    Parent

    Good luck with that (none / 0) (#69)
    by Yman on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 10:15:51 AM EST
    It's never going to happen, because the accusations against Obama are nothing more than winger conspiracy theories.

    As far as Manafort's/Stone's offers to testify, they mean nothing unless they will be under oath in a public hearing.

    Parent

    Flynn is the one in the most hot water (none / 0) (#72)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 10:30:32 AM EST
    Right now, over his meeting discussing illegally kidnapping someone in this country for a foreign power. He is rolling over on all of them right now too.

    Parent
    Don't look now (none / 0) (#181)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 09:17:50 PM EST
    but she walked it back.

    Totally fake BS by another Obama type.

    Parent

    She's not the only (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 07:15:17 AM EST
    one talking about Flynn flipping. There are others. However it would seem Flynn possibly has flipped by the news we are getting and his own behavior. certainly someone is going to flip to save themselves. Carter Page was basically begging for a deal.

    Parent
    Billie said Joan told hi, that Susan heard...... (none / 0) (#192)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 09:41:42 AM EST
    The Internet is the classic source of rumors and "qualified" statements "I think" becomes "fake news."

    Parent
    Jim (none / 0) (#193)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 11:20:40 AM EST
    I said reporting not rumors though apparently you can't tell the difference. USA today reporting Nunes is now in big trouble. I guess you'll call that "fake news" too from someone who gets all their news from Russia Today with better blondes.

    Parent
    Or (none / 0) (#189)
    by FlJoe on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 08:59:27 AM EST
    you take it from one of tRump's favorite sources.
    Why Is The National Enquirer Saying That Michael Flynn Is A Russian Spy?

    When you have lost the Nation Enquirer.........

    Parent

    The theory (none / 0) (#197)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 11:31:22 AM EST
    behind that is that Trump planted that story in his favorite paper because he knows that Flynn has flipped and is spilling the beans to the FBI.

    Parent
    Journalist's on Twitter reporting (none / 0) (#198)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 11:36:56 AM EST
    It is son-in-law Jared who is the Russian connector and he smuggled the Russian Ambassador secretly into Trump Tower.

    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#73)
    by FlJoe on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 10:31:25 AM EST
    never said that, it is Nunes who will destroy the investigation with his obstruction. You seem to think there is a reckoning ahead for Obama with your  "what did he know....", yet you refuse to ask the same of tRump.

    Parent
    Everybody is asking THAT of Trump ;-) (none / 0) (#85)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 11:41:12 AM EST
    No, not ahead. (none / 0) (#110)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 02:45:26 PM EST
    It is here right now.

    Parent
    Do tell? (none / 0) (#115)
    by Yman on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 05:17:04 PM EST
    What "reckoning" are you imagining that Obama is facing right now?  This should be seriously funny.

    Parent
    Why did the testimony (none / 0) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 10:47:19 AM EST
    Of the last NSA, the last acting AG, and the last director of national intelligence just cancelled?

    Parent
    Because (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by FlJoe on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 11:14:22 AM EST
    Nunes and the WH know it will be bad news for tRump. Methinks that at least one of them would disclose the existence of "hard" evidence of collusion. Clapper has stated he saw nothing but Yates and/or Brennan might have a different story.

    Nunes is obviously taking orders from the WH and blatantly obstructing justice and there is nothing the Democrats can do about it, for now.

    Parent

    I suggest you adopt a new moniker. (none / 0) (#84)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 11:39:46 AM EST
    Fl Qualifier Joe

     

    Clapper has stated he saw nothing but Yates and/or Brennan might have a different story.


    Parent
    I (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by FlJoe on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 12:09:37 PM EST
    am not the one running scared, canceling the hearing looks like an act of desperation to me. I notice you don't even try to answer the question posed, instead you attack my rhetorical construction rather than my ideas.

    Also as a practice, unlike you, I feel that I must use qualifiers when speaking of something that by necessity contains speculation on my part. You ought to try it some time, most intellectually honest people do it by nature.

    Parent

    If I had a nickel for every "qualifer" (none / 0) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 02:22:08 PM EST
    statement made by the Left on this subject I would be wealthy.

    If I had a 54 cents for each factual claim made by the Left I couldn't buy a cup of coffee at MacDonald's....even with the Senior Discount.

    However, it is a proven fact that 17 days before he left office Obama greatly expanded the list of people who could see the intelligence info.

    Now Nunez has seen the information, with US citizens names, that was distributed, and told the world.

    That is what is known as a smoking gun.

    I agree that it is rhetorical to ask, "What did the President know and when did he know it?"

    We have that answer.

    Parent

    And what "smoking gun" is that, Jim? (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 05:42:49 AM EST
    jimakaPPJ: "[I]t is a proven fact that 17 days before he left office Obama greatly expanded the list of people who could see the intelligence info. Now Nunez has seen the information, with US citizens names, that was distributed, and told the world. That is what is known as a smoking gun."

    The only ones calling it a "smoking gun" are your buddies at Fox News. But since nobody's actually seen this so-called evidence except Rep. Nunes, and he was further unable to describe it publicly with any real degree of rationality and coherence, it appears to be less smoking gun than red herring.

    Nunes best be careful, lest he implicate himself in this growing scandal by aiding and abetting an attempt at a cover up.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Better yet (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by FlJoe on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 07:34:47 AM EST
    where's the crime? The only clear and consistent message from Nunes has been it's all legal and incidental, a point he has repeated throughout his ever changing narrative.

    I am starting to think that Nunes saw some surveillance on himself that has him incredibly spooked. With the risk of going all Bad Spy Novel, I'll put a few recent revelations together.

    Woolsey reveals Flynn's "plotting" with the Turks and indicates that he notified the feds. It stands to reason that surveillance on the Turks would be started or most likely  existing surveillance stepped up.

    Then it comes to light that Nunes had his own meeting with Flynn and the Turks.

    Flynn is reportedly talking to the FBI.

    Nunes goes oh sh*t when he sees all this coming down, somehow through leaks or his own machinations he is able to get some transcripts related to that meeting. He finds them troubling, nothing to do with the Russians and somehow he can identify the actors even though the names are masked. I bet!

    Nunes might have deeper problems than mere obstruction of justice....to be continued.

    Parent

    Donald, you and Joe (none / 0) (#145)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 08:43:00 AM EST
    are sounding just like the Repub defenders of Nixon..

    Where's the crime?  Really? You don't know? Gosh.

    Flynn has nothing to do with this. He lied to the VP and was fired.... but I love the "may have..." qualifier.

    Repeat after me....

    17 days before Obama left...17 days before Obama left...

    What did the President know and when did he know it?

    Parent

    You (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by FlJoe on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 09:02:47 AM EST
    name the crime or STFU, bet you can't. You are the one making the accusations yet your best answer is "you don't know? Gosh". Weak, please spare us the gosh and golly Gomer Pyle blather and silly meaningless chants.


    Parent
    Hahahahaha ... (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Yman on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 09:58:38 AM EST
    You can't even cite the crime you're accusing Obama of violating, because he did absolutely nothing illegal.  What's the matter?  The winger, consultant website that you read couldn't even come up with a statute?

    Heh, heh, heh ..

    Parent

    Rep. Nunes has now backed off his claim ... (none / 0) (#184)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 05:05:55 AM EST
    jimakaPPJ: "Where's the crime? Really? You don't know? Gosh."

    ... about the Trump transition team being under federal surveillance. LINK.

    So, yeah. Where's the crime? You've tied up half the thread promoting and defending a baseless accusation.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    "Smoking gun"??? (none / 0) (#117)
    by Yman on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 05:22:28 PM EST
    Hahahahahahaha ....

    The English language should not be abused like that.  Apparently, you have no idea what the phrase means.  There is no evidence of ANY wrongdoing by Obama, let alone incontrovertible proof.  But if you think there is, surely you'd like to place a wager on your "incontrovertible proof".

    Parent

    Answer the question Jim (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 12:57:31 PM EST
    I think he's a little beside himself (none / 0) (#99)
    by jondee on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 01:15:10 PM EST
    right now. Poor guy.

    His post-Watergate Traumatic Stress Disorder issue is kicking in again.

    You can tell by all the "what did he know and when did he know it?" jazz..

    Parent

    Fake news (none / 0) (#108)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 02:38:16 PM EST
    coming after the announcement that President Donald Trump's campaign chairman agreed to testify before the committee.

    "Yesterday, the counsel for Paul Manafort contacted the committee yesterday to offer the committee the opportunity to interview his client,"

    CNN

    If you just do a casual read you get the impression he was subpoenaed.

    Yet he wasn't.

    What typical stuff.

    Now, MT. If you will tell me what you want I will consider your request. If it is about why a closed hearing, I say that is standard when classified material may be discussed.

    Of course Obama's troops probably have the meeting wire tapped and the info will be shared with all the media and fellow Democrats.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Meanwhile, back on planet Earth: (none / 0) (#92)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 12:35:17 PM EST
    "The more Republicans try to protect their president by downplaying the very curious and apparently very frequent contacts between Russians and Trump campaigners, the more it looks as if they are willingly aiding a coverup. They would do well to stop collaborating and start following the lead of their 2008 presidential nominee, Arizona Sen. John McCain. McCain is now calling for a select committee to take over the investigation. He sees that as a necessary step toward uncovering the impartial truth."

    LINK.

    Parent

    We already have past CIA Director Woolsey (none / 0) (#98)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 01:02:24 PM EST
    Admitting that he attended a meeting with Flynn and entities of the government of Turkey attempting to plan a kidnapping inside US borders.

    We already know illegalities were occurring inside team Trump. It doesn't just look like they are aiding in coverup. They are actively covering up criminal activities.

    Parent

    I have a client presently serving a ten-year (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Peter G on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 01:46:44 PM EST
    sentence for conspiracy to commit kidnapping, in a case with very strong mitigating circumstances including an arguably altruistic motive. No kidnapping actually occurred. I can tell you federal judges do not look kindly on this offense, if the story of the anti-Gűlen plot is true, and if it reached the point (critical in conspiracy law) of an "agreement" to commit the offense.

    Parent
    Many of us are surprised Woolsey (none / 0) (#125)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 07:18:32 PM EST
    Stayed with Trump beyond September when this kidnap planning meeting occurred. What else had to happen before this man decided to leave team Trump? He claims he notified VP Biden of this scary meeting. When did he notify Biden?

    Parent
    The WSJ (none / 0) (#128)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 07:31:35 PM EST
    reported that Nunes was at a meeting with Flynn about Turkey but apparently not the meeting where Flynn was talking about kidnapping the guy in PA.

    All I can say is never has that adage "truth is stranger than fiction" been more true than it has with this whole Trump Russia thing.

    Some of the security analysts are saying their sources are reporting that Flynn has flipped. That guy has done so much he probably needs to be in the witness protection program.

    Parent

    So Nunes is dirty too (none / 0) (#132)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 08:18:23 PM EST
    Lots of folks said that was why he was losing his chit.

    Parent
    Bahahaha! I just told Josh what a sniper (none / 0) (#133)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 08:22:30 PM EST
    You are. He says you're an American Sniper

    Parent
    Ready, aim (none / 0) (#137)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 08:50:08 PM EST
    fire with that barbed fact. I'm sure Josh with his sense of humor got quite a kick out of that.

    Parent
    Did you see Schiff's latest video (none / 0) (#141)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 05:36:46 AM EST
    Urging Trump to take guidance from Mattis and McMasters?

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#143)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 06:15:09 AM EST
    Oddly (none / 0) (#138)
    by FlJoe on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 08:57:24 PM EST
    enough, he only joined the campaign in September, hung on until early this year when he quit claiming he was cut out of the loop. I suppose now tRump will be claiming he was a CIA plant.

    Frankly, I don't find it that far fetched. I believe Flynn has been under some form of surveillance for years, he has been throwing up red flags since Obama fired him.

    The Bad Spy Novel continues.

    Parent

    It isn't the Repubs who (none / 0) (#109)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 02:43:58 PM EST
    have a President who changed the intel info distribution 17 days before he left...and dramatically increased the numbers of political operatives who could violate the law.

    Bring on the SP, Donald.

    "President Obama, why did you change the distribution...??"

    Great theater and a fitting end to the worst President's meme in the country's history.

    Parent

    You (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by FlJoe on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 07:08:12 PM EST
    do realize that Obama had the legal right to do anything he wished to do with classified material? He could literally release every piece of data owned by the government with no legal jeopardy.

    Your smoking gun, has no crime, just another deflection to cover up for your abject fear of facing the truth, while obsessing over the mechanism that shone a light on it.

    Parent

    Of course, Nixon had.....oops (none / 0) (#146)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 08:49:20 AM EST
    Obama had the legal right...and so did Hillary have the legal right....

    And so did the voters.

    Now, the question becomes....

    Did Obama know that the information contained info on American citizens that had not been redacted.

    That's a violation of the law.

    "Your President is not a crook." lol

    He'll look good in stripes.

    Parent

    You've got Nixon and Watergate (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by jondee on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 12:11:18 PM EST
    on the brain, Jim.

    The day the music died..

    It's been 30+ years, fella. Time to move on.

    Let go and let God.

    Parent

    Obama has become Nixon in blackface. (1.00 / 6) (#162)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 02:17:54 PM EST
    Is there some anniversary coming up (3.67 / 3) (#168)
    by jondee on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 02:53:21 PM EST
    I'm unaware of?

    A right wing national day of mourning for that other time when the dirty liberal media ganged up on another one of Jim's heroes?

    Parent

    "the worst President's meme in the..." (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 08:52:39 AM EST
    What does that nonsense masquerading as a sentence even pretend to mean, Jim?

    Parent
    Happily (none / 0) (#118)
    by Yman on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 05:25:47 PM EST
    Not even sure what that last sentence is supposed to mean, but bring it on.  Only one POTUS is the subject of a federal investigation, Jim - the guy you voted for.

    Parent
    Because he could.....for your consumption (none / 0) (#126)
    by vicndabx on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 07:30:26 PM EST
    Read these executive orders and tell me you don't believe the President has the authority to determine the best course of action w/r/t information sharing across gov't agencies.

    Title 3--
    The President
    Executive Order 13691 of February 13, 2015
    Promoting Private Sector Cybersecurity Information Sharing

    By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Policy. In order to address cyber threats to public health and safety, national security, and economic security of the United States, private companies, nonprofit organizations, executive departments and agencies (agencies), and other entities must be able to share information related to cybersecurity risks and incidents and collaborate to respond in as close to real time as possible.

    Title 3--
    The President
    Executive Order 13636 of February 12, 2013 Improving Critical Infrastructure Cybersecurity

    By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Policy. Repeated cyber intrusions into critical infrastructure demonstrate the need for improved cybersecurity. The cyber threat to critical infrastructure continues to grow and represents one of the most serious national security challenges we must confront. The national and economic security of the United States depends on the reliable functioning of the Nation's critical infrastructure in the face of such threats. It is the policy of the United States to enhance the security and resilience of the Nation's critical infrastructure and to maintain a cyber environment that encourages efficiency, innovation, and economic prosperity while promoting safety, security, business confidentiality, privacy, and civil liberties. We can achieve these goals through a partnership with the owners and operators of critical infrastructure to improve cybersecurity information sharing and collaboratively develop and implement risk-based standards.

    The man was doing his job.  If you are going to make a claim the president did something irregular, back it up or at least research whether the president is authorized to do what you claim is improper.  Teaparty.org is probably not your best source of truthful information.  CT yes, truth no.

    Parent

    Quit wasting your time (1.00 / 3) (#147)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 08:52:38 AM EST
    the distributed info had the names of US citizens. That's illegal.

    Obama aided and abetted.

    And since he has failed to come forward that's obstruction.

    How Nixonesque of him.

    Parent

    Good primer on US foreign intel surveillance (none / 0) (#170)
    by Green26 on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 04:58:04 PM EST
    law. FISA,  Exec Order 12333, Minimization, Masking/UnMasking. Too bad this article wasn't out 5 days ago.

    NY Times.

    Parent

    Key snippet: (none / 0) (#187)
    by vicndabx on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 07:54:30 AM EST
    In July 2008, the same month Congress passed the FISA Amendments Act, President George W. Bush modified Executive Order 12333, which sets rules for surveillance that domestic wiretapping statutes do not address, including techniques that vacuum up vast amounts of content without targeting anybody.

    After the revision, Executive Order 12333 said the N.S.A. could share the raw fruits of such surveillance after the director of national intelligence and the attorney general, coordinating with the defense secretary, agreed on procedures. It took another eight years to develop those rules.



    Parent
    Devin Nunes is from Tulare, CA. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:55:15 PM EST
    It's in the southern Central Valley between Visalia and Bakersfield, which is the still-beating heart of the remnants of Red-State California. Tulare County lags behind the rest of the Golden State economically with a nearly 14% unemployment rate, and has been hemorrhaging jobs at -2.9% annually.

    And so, of course, they elect a numbskull like Nunes.

    Parent

    That's President Cheeto (none / 0) (#27)
    by MKS on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 07:09:04 PM EST
    to you.

    Give the man the respect he deserves.

    Parent

    Except J (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 03:21:04 PM EST
    John Woolsey in a WSJ write up reports he attended a meeting with Flynn and representatives of Turkey about "renditioning" Muhammed Fethullah Gülen out of the US illegaly. Woolsey says after the meeting and out of concern for the illegality of what was discussed he notified then Vice President Joe Biden.

    And journalist Ryan Lizza on Twitter says that someone at the WH has informed him that the Nunes freakshow was devised by the White House.


    Sorry, James Woolsley (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 06:03:43 PM EST
    Woolsey (none / 0) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 06:56:58 PM EST
    Wow, I haven't even had wine

    Parent
    With a little help from The Who (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by caseyOR on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 05:30:26 PM EST
    Comes a song for Paul Ryan.

    h/t Paul Krugman

    Delicious (none / 0) (#134)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 08:30:33 PM EST
    Oregon Ducks win. Onto Final 4!!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by caseyOR on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 10:13:27 PM EST
    The Ducks beat Kansas tonight to secure a spot in the NCAA Final 4. Their last Final 4 appearance was 1939.

    GO, DUCKS!!!!!

    "a" corrupt DEA agent (none / 0) (#15)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 04:18:23 PM EST
    very droll.

    AGAIN (none / 0) (#33)
    by linea on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 07:39:24 PM EST
    i was chastized and ridiculed when i questioned the TLer dogma that it was exclusively neo-nazi "white nationalists" making bomb threats and that these people were embolden and coordinating threats and vandalism across the country.

    so far we have:

    • an african american male angry at his jewish ex-girlfriend.
    • a dual u.s citizen in israel making the bulk of the bomb threats against jewish community centers.

    maybe a "i'm sorry for being mean, linea" is in order? i admit when i'm wrong.

    Good luck with that (3.20 / 5) (#36)
    by McBain on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 08:18:16 PM EST
    The bad apples in here are more likely to double down on their insults than apologize. It's like Jr. high school.  

    Parent
    Insults (4.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:25:18 PM EST
    ...are not permitted here.  The posts get deleted.  Apparently you were not aware of that.  Now you are.  That is why the following statement is false.

    The bad apples in here are more likely to double down on their insults than apologize.


    Parent
    Really??? Not permitted? (none / 0) (#66)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 09:52:09 AM EST
    Do you read anything besides what you write?

    lol

    Parent

    Obviously you still think trolling (none / 0) (#82)
    by jondee on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 11:25:44 AM EST
    is allowed here.

    But then, why wouldn't you? As long as you've been getting away with it.

    Parent

    So in other words (none / 0) (#41)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:22:07 PM EST
       an african american male angry at his jewish ex-girlfriend.
        a dual u.s citizen in israel making the bulk of the bomb threats against jewish community centers.

    These were not "foreign terrorists."

    I think it has been pointed out many times that most terror acts in this country are committed by native born right-wingers.

    It's pretty clear that the two individuals you identified were not liberals, but what is that word...  Oh yes, CRIMINALS.

    Don't go bashing liberals for the acts of people who do not meet that description.  Liberals are the most patriotic demographic.

    Parent

    You misunderstood Linea's post and point (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Peter G on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:54:35 PM EST
    RR. Her comment (like mine on another thread) was that you cannot assume, before seeing the evidence, who the perpetrators of a given act might be. Crimes meant to look like anti-semitic vandalism or threats may or may not the the work of an an alt-Right ideologue. That's all she was saying. Not that "liberals" or anyone else are more likely to be the perpetrator.

    Parent
    thank you peter!! (none / 0) (#53)
    by linea on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 10:21:52 PM EST
    that's exactly what i meant.

    Parent
    im sorry (none / 0) (#48)
    by linea on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:40:31 PM EST
    but i didnt understand any part of what you just posted.

    im the liberal who supports local and national progressive candidates. you TLers are centrists!!


    Parent

    Just so you know (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 09:46:16 PM EST
    I am more liberal than Pete Seeger.  Look him up.

    Parent
    i looked him up (none / 0) (#52)
    by linea on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 10:09:47 PM EST
    Peter "Pete" Seeger was an American folk singer and social activist. A fixture on nationwide radio in the 1940s, he also had a string of hit records during the early 1950s as a member of the Weavers, ... Wikipedia

    i avoid some topics so perhaps i missed your progressives posts. if so, im sorry.  my general feelings, not knowing you well, are that you are part of the local curmudgeon brigade ranting about the (imagined) puppies of neo-nazis pooping on your lawn.

    Parent

    Stop with the personal stuff (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by Peter G on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 10:37:44 PM EST
    Repack is smart, knowledgeable, and decent. And definitely consistently progressive (left of liberal). (Also quite accomplished in more than one field.) No reason to launch poorly aimed attacks. Stick to the substance of what people say and respond on that basis only. Much safer (and more interesting).

    Parent
    ok!! (none / 0) (#57)
    by linea on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 10:57:57 PM EST
    im sorry. but it's not fair that everybody gets to be mean to me and i cant randomly make snarky posts.

    Parent
    Ok, then, just accept (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Peter G on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 09:43:53 AM EST
    that life is not fair. (Free advice from a father of three very nice grown-ups who were once in elementary school.)

    Parent
    Linea, I think you should try a little harder (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by jondee on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 10:51:54 PM EST
    to not let your "general feelings" take the place of your ability to evaluate on a case-by-case basis.

    You're making a lot of mentally lazy "you TLers" statements here lately..

    You TLers like guns, you TLers like to jump to conclusions, you TLers are centrists..

    You're shadowboxing with figments of your imagination at least as much as the people you point the finger at do.

    Parent

    you're right (none / 0) (#58)
    by linea on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 10:59:43 PM EST
    im being lazy and acting frustrated.

    Parent
    I wouldn't know about that myself ;-) (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 11:02:19 PM EST
    It happens.

    Parent
    thank you!! {{ hugs }} (none / 0) (#60)
    by linea on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 11:10:34 PM EST
    going out. the evening is just starting in seattle.

    Parent
    Ah Seattle.. (none / 0) (#61)
    by jondee on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 11:14:23 PM EST
    How well I remember Seattle..

    Have a good time.

    Parent

    Hate crimes are bad and deserve attention (none / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 10:15:05 AM EST
    but so do fake hate crimes.

    Why?? Because they increase the cynicism of the body politic and are used by many to claim that very few actually exist.

    Yet there is very little written about them.

    Parent

    Probably because ... (none / 0) (#70)
    by Yman on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 10:23:18 AM EST
    ... the "fake hate crimes" are so rare - and smart people realize that they will just be used by conservatives to try to falsely, delegitimize all hate crimes.

    Parent
    Actually the days of controlling the news (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 10:46:42 AM EST
    died with the Internet.

    My recommendation would be wide publicity and a some very tough punishment to deter them.

    Of course you had rather live a lie.

    No surprise.

    Parent

    "Tough punishment" does not deter crime (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Peter G on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 12:15:35 PM EST
    contrary to popular belief. Decades of research consistently shows that an increased probability of getting caught, coupled with speed and certainty of resolution of cases, are the factors that increase deterrence. Increasing severity of punishment -- the knee jerk reaction of politicians, sadly -- increases the cost of the criminal justice system but not its effectiveness. Here is a short summary of that settled knowledge from the U.S. Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice.

    Parent
    Okay, what would you do (none / 0) (#111)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 02:49:52 PM EST
    to someone who has faked a hate crime.

    And how would you reduce this crime?


    Parent

    If the person with the bully pulpit (none / 0) (#113)
    by Peter G on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 04:47:15 PM EST
    authentically and sincerely demonized and rejected those who spout and legitimate hateful views, rather than embracing them through dog-whistles and supporting "alt-right" pseudo-news outlets, that would be a good start. On a larger scale, we need, as a society, to cut our prison population by about 50% and put those billions into our public schools, into mental health care, and into modernizing and supporting local police so they can keep up with the internet skills of these young perpetrators. We also need to build police-community connections, rather than further militarizing our police, so that the average person does not fear the police but rather sees them as wanting to help (as most of them do).

    Parent
    Those are good things (none / 0) (#121)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 05:39:46 PM EST
    and I would never never never privatize prisons.

    But a casual review of the data show many of these hoaxers to be college students and almost all of them young.

    And I see no specific acts that would discourage these crimes.

    Parent

    Unfortunately, the most effective method (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Peter G on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 07:00:56 PM EST
    of correcting antisocial behavior in the young is waiting for them to reach age 26 or so.

    Parent
    That is true but it doesn't fix the problem. (none / 0) (#149)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 09:01:54 AM EST
    Which problem? That some young people (none / 0) (#169)
    by Peter G on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 04:37:42 PM EST
    commit crimes? Not a problem any society can "fix." Best way to kept it under control at a reasonable cost (relative to the benefit) is investment in improvements in the public middle schools and high schools and in local policing (as I described in my prior post), use of more intense probation and less imprisonment, and where imprisonment is necessary, shorter terms (including a review when they turn 26 or so of sentences imposed for crimes committed by 18-25 yr olds.  
     

    Parent
    The subject was how do we prevent people from (none / 0) (#172)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 06:45:38 PM EST
    claiming they have suffered a hate crime.

    I wanted to put them in jail.

    You don't.

    Parent

    Falsely reporting crimes is obviously wrong (5.00 / 4) (#176)
    by jondee on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 07:39:32 PM EST
    yet Trump has done it and you seem to admire him for it.

    And you've been making wild claims about Obama breaking the law without being able to designate what law he broke.

    You're obviously less interested in people doing the right thing than you are in winning some imaginary pissing contest.

    Parent

    That may have been your subject, Jim (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by Peter G on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 08:21:12 PM EST
    But it wasn't mine. I did not choose to focus narrowly on an exceedingly minor problem in society. (I, joined later by Linea -- not you -- actually opened this subject by using it as an example of why we should not jump to conclusions based on initial news reports.) I then chose to address the knee-jerk reaction, which apparently you share, that the best response to any bad behavior by someone you don't like (in contrast with similar behavior by someone you support) is to put them in jail, and especially the suggestion that if a form of bad behavior that is already illegal does not disappear, then what we ought to do is make the potential penalty more severe. In my previous posts, I explained carefully why I do not believe those responses are well-founded or productive. Your two-word version of what I said is ludicrously inaccurate. This is why those of us who sometimes try to engage with you in a serious way soon despair of the enterprise.

    Parent
    What about falsely claiming ... (none / 0) (#178)
    by Yman on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 07:45:10 PM EST
    ... the ex-POTUS has committed a crime?

    How many years should those people get?

    Parent

    "Live a lie"? (none / 0) (#78)
    by Yman on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 11:05:10 AM EST
    Not at all.  Publicize it all you want.  Just be prepared to call out the wingers who falsely smear other hate crimes by citing a few and linking to fake news sites and posting FB memes.

    Parent
    What agenda could someone possibly have (none / 0) (#116)
    by Peter G on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 05:20:35 PM EST
    who devotes this much energy to creating and maintaining (or is even interested in reading) a website devoted to cataloging "fake hate crimes"? I wonder.

    Parent
    Well, they may be the same people (none / 0) (#120)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 05:35:11 PM EST
    who worry that the number of homeless people reported on by the press always goes up when a Repub  is elected.

    Parent
    I thought we were eschewing (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Peter G on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 06:55:43 PM EST
    qualifiers, like "may be." Anyway, that makes a lot of sense, sure. Thanks for explaining.

    Parent
    No, not at all (none / 0) (#152)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 09:04:04 AM EST
    I'm just saying I recognize them for what they are.

    The pushing of an opinion by repetition of an unproven claim.

    Parent

    Of course you would recognize them (none / 0) (#158)
    by jondee on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 12:46:48 PM EST
    you're very attuned to that sort of thing.

    Just as dogs only need a slight whiff of another dog's hind end.

    Parent

    Like a naughty child who is ignored (none / 0) (#160)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 02:14:05 PM EST
    jondee becomes more and more angry, striking out with juvenile statements.


    Parent
    Blessed Are the Talkers on the Radio (none / 0) (#165)
    by jondee on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 02:33:50 PM EST
    for they shall rebuke the hate crime reporting whiners, in Jesus name.

    Parent
    Oh well, Jim has a lot of interests.. (none / 0) (#159)
    by jondee on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 02:13:22 PM EST
    along with inflated homelessness statistics, all you have to do is ask and in a few seconds he'll pull up a study on underreported welfare fraud, voter fraud, and another on the notorious gluttony of overfed poor children.

    Blessed are the Right Wing Think Tanks.

    Parent

    Of course you lie (1.00 / 2) (#161)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 02:15:47 PM EST
    It is what you do.

    Parent
    Your posts are more interesting (none / 0) (#163)
    by jondee on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 02:22:26 PM EST
    when you're obsessing about qualifiers and Nixon.

    Which is to say not interesting at all, but possibly not a total waste of bandwidth.

    Parent

    my netflix recommendation (none / 0) (#35)
    by linea on Fri Mar 24, 2017 at 08:02:58 PM EST
    a series of unfortunate events
    season one - eight episodes
    described in reviews as a black comedy

    Now's the time for Democrats (none / 0) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 10:04:42 AM EST
    to correct the problems that Obamacare has.

    And it does have them. Sky high premiums. Huge deductibles. Insurance companies leaving markets. Employers encouraged to not provide coverage...

    Maybe a single payer plan?

    Lead. Follow. Or Get Out Of The Way.

    The Most Popular Politician in America (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by RickyJim on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 10:34:26 AM EST
    at 61% favorable rating, according to Fox News!!!!!!!, agrees.  What do you think of Bernie's single payer plan?

    Bernie's plan will cost over $6 trillion less than the current health care system over the next ten years.

    The United States currently spends $3 trillion on health care each year--nearly $10,000 per person. Reforming our health care system, simplifying our payment structure and incentivizing new ways to make sure patients are actually getting better health care will generate massive savings. This plan has been estimated to save the American people and businesses over $6 trillion over the next decade.



    Parent
    i support (none / 0) (#127)
    by linea on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 07:30:45 PM EST
    senator bernie sanders single payer plan. i dont understand why anyone here would want any sort of for-profit cobbled together ersatz free-market hybrid nightmare controlled by insurance companies who do not have the interests of patients or doctors in mind.

    best as i can figure, the successful part of obamacare is the part the insurance companies dont control or dont want - the medicaid expansion and the "anti free market" mandate to cover pre-existing conditions.

    Medicare for All

    Health care must be recognized as a right, not a privilege. Every man, woman and child in our country should be able to access the health care they need regardless of their income. The only long-term solution to America's health care crisis is a single-payer national health care program.



    Parent
    Here's the thing (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 07:38:36 PM EST
    you are asking people to give up their healthcare they currently have for an unknown. For people who don't have insurance like you there is no risk in that proposition. For people that currently have good insurance paid for mostly by an employer there is a great big risk to them that they might be giving up something good to get something worse.

    Then there's the issue with some people that they don't want someone like Paul Ryan controlling their healthcare decisions.

    It's just not as easy as you think it might be.

    Parent

    An Unknown? (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by RickyJim on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 08:06:18 PM EST
    Medicare is known to many of us.  I have it and I think it is great.  If everybody had it, I think satisfaction would be quite high.

    Parent
    That's because (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 08:43:58 PM EST
    you have it. So you know it. A lot of people especially younger people only have experience with Medicaid which is quite different.

    Parent
    The way forward (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by MKS on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 08:09:04 PM EST
    should be according to moi:

       1.  Create a public option when Dems next have Congress. That would make our system  much like the French's--which is quite good.

       2.  Let's see how the private insurers do with a public option out there.

       3.  If the public option is best option, and the public wants government insurance, and not private sector insurance as the GOP says, then  the public option will win out.

      4.  Thus the public option can crowd out private insurance over time.

    Incremental, non-threatening steps.

    Parent

    That's what (none / 0) (#136)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 08:46:22 PM EST
    I think is the best way to do it. I also think Medicare should be opened up to everybody.

    Trying to do a quick switch over to single payer would be like Trump's Muslim ban-extremely disruptive and confusing.

    Parent

    ok (none / 0) (#139)
    by linea on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 09:58:30 PM EST
    maybe something like this:
    • require all employers to provide medical insurance for all employees. eliminate the scam "part-time" exception.
    • everyone pays a monthly fee for the expanded medicare-plus.
    • eliminate the scam "contractor" exception. if somebody is working for a company then that company pays medical insurance. boo-hoo microsoft.
    • anyone not employed and retired persons use medicare unless they opt to purchase private care.

    Bassically, if you dont have a job that provides medical insurance than you can use medicare. simple as that.

    Parent

    Agreed MKS, (none / 0) (#153)
    by fishcamp on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 09:22:48 AM EST
    but the French have very high taxes to support their healthcare program.  As I've mentioned before it took them 15 years to toll out their program.  And if perchance you earn one million Euros a year the taxes on those earnings is 75%.  

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#71)
    by Yman on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 10:27:40 AM EST
    You Republicans control Congress, the Senate and the Presidency.  Your POTUS and Reps have been promising to repeal and replace the ACA with something "so much better!" for YEARS, but now that Republicans have control of the Presidency and the legislature ... nothing.

    Sorry - you're in the driver's seat.  It's not our fault that Republicans are only capable of backseat driving.

    Parent

    Democrats (none / 0) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 10:38:12 AM EST
    have been saying that they are willing to work with the GOP to fix the problems. However Republicans have said do not want to fix anything. And since the GOP controls all the levers of government that's where we are.

    When you make statements like the Democrats should do this or that it certainly implies that you don't have a basic understanding of how government works.

    Parent

    et al (none / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 11:33:25 AM EST
    Uh, Yman.  Foaming at the mouth while telling us that the Repubs control Congress and have failed to change/repeal Obamacare is not news or a solution to the problems.

    But if it makes you feel good...Go for it!

    GA, if the Demos are ready to actually work with the Repubs...What are their goals and when will they articulate them on TV?

    Ricky Jim, okie dokie. Now, if he would just say how he would pay for it....and introduce it in Congress.

    Folks, the simple fact is that Obamacare is dying because of mandated care with no mandated way of paying for it.

    And the only ways to pay for it is either a mandated graduated income tax increase, federal sales tax or another "special" tax such as Medicare.

    And seeing as how the true name for the Obamacare subsidies is WELFARE the folks who aren't getting any hate them and won' tolerate any additional taxes to pay for them.

    That means two things. Either:

    1.    The insurance companies will stop covering certain locations. (Many counties now have only one location.)

    2.    Premiums and deductibles will continue to balloon. Many deductibles are so high that the policies, if used, will effectively bankrupt the insured.

    Those are the driving forces that will destroy Obamacare. If the Freedom Caucus thinks it has done so great they haven't considered how many will be defeated in 2018 primaries. But they won't be replaced by Demos because Demos continue to be the Daddy Rabbit of Obamacare.

    If the Demos really cared, instead of playing "pay back" politics, they would push a single payer system pair for by everyone.  You may think it unfair but the truth is any other way won't be acceptable.


    Parent

    gee (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by mm on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 11:52:16 AM EST
    if only there had been a candidate on the other side that had studied this problem for decades and had well drawn out plan to fix the problems.

    Parent
    Here's the problem (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 12:56:59 PM EST
    with single payer: they attempted it in the most politically viable state in the country for single payer (VT) and it failed. So the message there is it's not embraced by the voters. When a state actually does single payer and is successful at it you'll begin to see more of that happening. The answer for right now would be to open Medicare up for those who want to buy in. However none of the people you vote for have even suggested this so I just take your yammering about single payer basically as nonsense.

    Parent
    IMO, Vermont failed with (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by caseyOR on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 01:58:31 PM EST
    single payer because it is too small a population. If several states join together, thus increasing the size of the insurance pool, the costs for each state would be more reasonable.

    A healthcare coalition of the three west coast states, even better if it included all PAC-12 states, would be able to make a go of single-payer. California may be the only state with a large enough population to be able to go it alone. And I am not sure California could do it.

    Parent

    Bernie Does Say How He Would Pay For It (none / 0) (#86)
    by RickyJim on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 11:47:51 AM EST
    It is at the bottom of the linked page I gave.

    Parent
    My bad (none / 0) (#112)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 02:53:43 PM EST
    But all of these aren't "fair."

    Parent
    You must (none / 0) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 12:52:33 PM EST
    have never listened to Hillary discuss this very problem and her solution to the problem.

    Parent
    Uh, Jim (none / 0) (#101)
    by Yman on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 01:42:55 PM EST
    Uh, Yman.  Foaming at the mouth while telling us that the Repubs control Congress and have failed to change/repeal Obamacare is not news or a solution to the problems.

    But if it makes you feel good...Go for it!

    "Foaming at the mouth"?   Hahahahaha ...

    That's what you call facts/reality?

    Hate to tell you, Jim, but your party is driving now.  You have to do more than just call your reps and complain they're doing exactly what they said they would do when you voted for them.  They're opposing single payer and they told you they would when you chose them.

    Sorry - it's time for you Republicans to drive the car - well, ... for a couple of years, at least.  Your leader told us it would be "so easy!" to provide a fairy tale system at a fraction of the cost.  His supporters were foolish enough to believe his empty promises and impotent bragging.  He even said on the campaign trail:

    "If you can't make a good deal with a politician then there's something wrong with you."

    It turns out, by his own words, he's "not very good."

    Talk about and understatement.

    Parent

    Officer convicted for the killing of Jeremy Mardis (none / 0) (#80)
    by McBain on Sat Mar 25, 2017 at 11:17:04 AM EST
    Mardis was the innocent victim of car chase gone wrong.  I'm still not exactly sure what happened but one of the officers has been convicted of manslaughter.  The other will have separate trial later.
    Stafford, 33, and another deputy city marshal opened fire on a car - killing Jeremy Mardis and critically wounding his father - after a 2-mile car chase in Marksville on the night of Nov. 3, 2015.

    Video from a police officer's body camera shows the father, Christopher Few, had his hands raised inside his vehicle while the two deputies collectively fired 18 shots. At least four of those bullets tore into Jeremy, who died within minutes.



    Seth Abramson says on Twitter (none / 0) (#156)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 11:14:31 AM EST
    That sources claim Flynn has flipped on the Trump Administration.

    So?? (none / 0) (#171)
    by RickyJim on Sun Mar 26, 2017 at 06:42:57 PM EST
    MT, why do you keep telling us what you see on twitter from people whose knowledge is dubious? He sounds about as reliable on such matters as Donald Trump.  According to Wikipedia:
    Currently an Assistant Professor of English at University of New Hampshire, Abramson is a graduate of Dartmouth College, Harvard Law School, the Iowa Writers' Workshop, and the doctoral program in English at University of Wisconsin-Madison.[3] He writes a blog on contemporary poetry for The Huffington Post and is a regular columnist for Indiewire.[4][5][6] Abramson's Indiewire column focuses on films, television programs, and video games informed by metamodernism.[7][8]


    Parent
    "informed by metamodernism" (none / 0) (#190)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 09:05:29 AM EST
    More Meta, Less Filling

    Parent
    Seth Abramson isnt dubious (none / 0) (#194)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 11:25:21 AM EST
    And Twitter breaks most news now

    Parent
    Nunes now confirms ... (none / 0) (#195)
    by Yman on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 11:25:24 AM EST
    ... he was on the "WH grounds" meeting with his source the day before he revealed the incidental surveillance information, but didn't talk to anyone from the WH and they didn't even know he was there.

    Heh.

    Also FBI, CIA, DIA all report (none / 0) (#200)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 12:12:34 PM EST
    That in that 24 hour period Nunes did not use any of their sciffs to view classified information. So where did he view this?

    Parent
    Legal question (none / 0) (#199)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 12:10:09 PM EST
    Is it true that a currently secret plea agreement with DOJ could prevent someone from immediately testifying to a House committee? As in why was Flynn left off the list?

    I thought Flynn had cut a deal (none / 0) (#201)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 27, 2017 at 12:19:39 PM EST
    Days ago. He's been 100% quiet. He went from "Lock her up!" to imma gonna shut up in about 60 seconds. I equate that with lawyered up. Especially when everyone else is on the weekend shows. He disappeared like smoke.