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Friday Open Thread: TL (Grand) Baby Karter News

The TL kids have sent out the first photos of their new 9 pound baby girl, born at 3:30 pm yesterday. She even has a cool name -- Karter.

[More...]

TL kid Nic looks ecstatic.

I see a little bit of resemblance... here's Nic at 3 days old (still in the hospital, they kept you longer back then.)

I hope Karter is as happy a baby as he was (here at six weeks)

Karter looks pretty exhausted here after the 24 hour labor. What a head of hair!

Here she is with her newborn hat for warmth, resting against Mama TL Kid, looking very peaceful.

Update: Here's Karter, 1 day old, on her way home for the first time. With open eyes, she's looking more like Mama TL Kid to me. I wonder what she's thinking and whether she knows where she's going. Her parents voices have to be familiar to her by now, so maybe she does. On the other hand, maybe she's wondering what the heck this contraption is and why she's in it.

I can't wait to meet her this weekend. This is probably the last time I'll blog about her until Thanksgiving when we'll all be at Ms. TL Kid's parents' house, (third time for me). The TL Kids do like their privacy and while I have permission to post the pics in this thread, I doubt they'd appreciate my posting every significant detail of their lives (to put it mildly.)

Have I mentioned it's a little overwhelming going from a family of 2 (me and the TL kid) to a family of 20 or so (immediate, extended and cross-over) just in Denver? It's a terrific group of people, young and old, but it's a bit weird getting used to the whole "group messaging" thing. My phone is constantly "chirping".

In the meantime, since I'm clearly otherwise occupied, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Kaboom (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by FlJoe on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 05:39:24 AM EST
    Robert Mueller is investigating Mike Flynn and his son's alleged plot to kidnap a Muslim cleric living in the U.S. and hand him over to Turkey in exchange for millions of dollars.

    The former national security adviser to President Donald Trump and his son, Mike Flynn Jr., would have been paid up to $15 million for delivering Fethullah Gulen to the Turkish government, according to sources familiar with the investigation who spoke to the Wall Street Journal.

    FBI agents have questioned at least four individuals about a meeting in December 2016, during the presidential transition, at the 21 Club in New York City, where Flynn met with representatives of the Turkish government.

    That meeting was a follow-up to a secret Sept. 19 meeting attended by former CIA director James Woolsey, who said Flynn and others discussed "a covert step in the dead of night to whisk this guy away."


    I knew about the Sept 19th meeting but the Dec meeting is news to me and the specific quid pro quo sounds particularly damming.  

    Forgot (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by FlJoe on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 05:43:44 AM EST
    Link For those "bored" with the investigation, maybe conspiracy to commit kidnapping will spice things up.

    Parent
    Without going into too much detail (none / 0) (#8)
    by Peter G on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 09:18:33 AM EST
    I have a client who was sentenced a year or so ago to ten years in federal prison for a conspiracy to kidnap -- no actual kidnapping occurred -- where the client was an older professional and the motive was purely based on beliefs that this would be right thing to do for a greater good, with no personal harm to the "victim" intended.

    Parent
    "Lock him up!" (none / 0) (#18)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:53:43 AM EST
    Probably not the words a defense attorney wants to hear, but I couldn't help it.

    Parent
    what a cutie (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 07:47:45 AM EST
    and a great name too.

    Look at those chubby cheeks! (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 08:59:35 AM EST
    What a beautiful Baby...cherish every moment J!

    Wow! What a sweetie! (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by desertswine on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:52:37 AM EST


    Happy, happy, joy, joy! (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Boo Radly on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 01:04:30 PM EST
    Congrats to all! Such a beauty and what a gift for your family this holiday season.

    The Steele Dossier (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 02:49:54 PM EST
    continues to hold up.  Keith Schiller, Trump's long-time bodyguard, testified before the House Intel Committee, that at a morning meeting during the 2013 Moscow Miss Universe Pageant, a Russian businessman offered to "send five women" up to Trump's Ritz Carlton suite later that night.

    Schiller thought the offer to be funny, responding that "we do not do that stuff."  Later that night, according to Schiller, he told Trump about the offer and they both laughed. Then Trump went to his room; Schiller left Trump's hotel room door after a while, but can't say what happened during the remainder of the night.

    This testimony by a very loyal Trump employee, revealed the notion of Russian hookers at the Ritz Carlton, as specified in the Dossier.  Perhaps, Schiller assumed the offer was corroborable, and knew he needed to testify about it.  And, his not knowing what happened after he left his watch at the hotel room door, left himself a way out on the remainder of the Dossier's story.

    The fact that the Russian businessman made such an offer meant that the Russian businessman believed Trump was no angel, and may have been more receptive to this idea than a night at the opera.

    this (none / 0) (#68)
    by linea on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 08:22:46 PM EST
    I did not read the bodyguard's statement (none / 0) (#70)
    by Peter G on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 08:31:31 PM EST
    to say that Tr*mp rejected the offer, but rather that the bodyguard had rejected it that afternoon. What Tr*mp did in the hotel room after his bodyguard left for the night, and in particular whether he did what the Steele Dossier suggests he did, we do not know.

    Parent
    re: "we do not know" (1.75 / 4) (#73)
    by linea on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 08:58:47 PM EST
    this is getting ridiculous. MAYBE businessman trump waited until after midnight and then snuck down to the hotel bar and paid a male prostitute to have sex in the men's room.

    previously, the salacious bits of the steele-dossier were at best uncorroborated. at this point, they appear to be fabrications purchased from russians.

    President Donald Trump's long-time confidant Keith Schiller privately testified that he rejected a Russian offer to send five women to then private-citizen Trump's hotel room during their 2013 trip to Moscow for the Miss Universe pageant, according to multiple sources from both political parties with direct knowledge of the testimony.

    Schiller, Trump's former bodyguard and personal aide, testified that he took the offer as a joke, two of the sources said. On their way up to Trump's hotel room that night, Schiller told the billionaire businessman about the offer and Trump laughed it off, Schiller told the House intelligence committee earlier this week.




    Parent
    Pretty "ridiculous" indeed (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Yman on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 08:28:14 AM EST
    this is getting ridiculous. MAYBE businessman trump waited until after midnight and then snuck down to the hotel bar and paid a male prostitute to have sex in the men's room.

    previously, the salacious bits of the steele-dossier were at best uncorroborated. at this point, they appear to be fabrications purchased from russians.

    Speculation about Trump using pr0stitutes is perfectly legitimate because he "fits the demographic", but the specifics of the Steele dossier are "fabrications" because Trump's long-time bodyguard and friend says he didn't see it.

    Heh.

    Parent

    yes "Heh" (none / 0) (#99)
    by linea on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 12:24:46 PM EST
    BECAUSE THIS:
    linea replies to another poster and comments that... one can certainly speculate that trump, like other wealthy businessmen may have had used sex workers while away on business trips.

    IS NOT THE SAME AS THIS:
    trump's former bodyguard testified to the House intelligence committee that the pee story is absolute garbage but hysterical people refuse to accept any information that debunks the salacious narative and are hellbent on creating their own version of Pizzagate.

    Parent

    Or, because ... (5.00 / 3) (#143)
    by Yman on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 08:38:38 AM EST
    ... sheer speculation with absolutely no evidence by Linea is just fine, while speculation about the salacious details of the Steele dossier is "ridiculous", because Trump's long time bodyguard didn't see it happen and doesn't believe it happened.

    Heh.

    Parent

    I asknowledge Schiller's testimony (none / 0) (#124)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 07:05:29 PM EST
    but don't give the Schiller spin much credence....

    Parent
    Why do you believe Schiller? (5.00 / 4) (#92)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 09:34:43 AM EST
    A more biased witness could not exist.  He is not a nice guy in my opinion.  Man-handled Jorge Ramos.  Brags about being able to "put hands" many people.

    A complete Trump loyalist.  If anything, his comments show that Trump was offered prostit*tutes.....

    Parent

    because (none / 0) (#102)
    by linea on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 12:42:09 PM EST
    Why do you believe Schiller? (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by MKS

    reality:
    uncorraborated salacious allegation debunked by a bodyguard testfying before the House intelligence committee.

    not reality:
    "he must be lying! the pee story must be true!!"

    i have already stated that i'm open to new information but at this point too many people are being ridiculous.

    Parent

    "Debunked by Bodyguard?" (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 03:43:48 PM EST
    No, not even taking his testimony at face value.  He stayed at Trump's door for a few minutes. Women were offered.  He can debunk nothing.

    And why do you believe the bodyguard?   He is the biggest Trump apologist ever.

    Parent

    to many LIBEL lawsuits for me (none / 0) (#125)
    by linea on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 07:33:16 PM EST
    "Debunked by Bodyguard?" (#112)
    by MKS

    am i the only one paying attention?

    in my opinion, this isn't the time to double-down on the pee party allegation being true.

    • Christopher Steele and is being sued for libel in the U.K.
    • Steele admits in legal filings in the U.K. that he did not corroborate any of the information.
    • Aleksej Gubarev has sued BuzzFeed for libel in the U.S (Florida).
    • BuzzFeed has subpoenaed the Democratic National Committee (DNC).
    • Several Russian businessmen have filed libel lawsuits in U.S. District Court in Washington against Glenn Simpson and Fusion GPS.
    • Keith Schiller, under oath before the House Intelligence Committee says the pee party allegation is not true. We have no witness that rebuts this and no witnesses to the alleged incident.

    The Washington Times - Thursday, October 5, 2017
    Three Russian bankers have filed a libel suit against the Washington political operative who hired the former British spy to write a dossier that was used to sully Donald Trump and his presidential campaign with unverified Kremlin gossip.
    Its marks the fifth libel lawsuit filed by people accused of felonies by former intelligence officer Christopher Steele and his paymaster, former Wall Street Journal reporter Glenn Simpson.


    Parent
    British libel law and U.S. libel law (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by Peter G on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 07:49:14 PM EST
    are very different. It is way too easy for plaintiffs to prevail in the U.K.; they simply do not share our views of freedom of the press. The U.S. case should be interesting, though. Often, once the civil discovery process gets rolling, plaintiffs in U.S. libel actions very much regret having opened themselves up to compulsory production of documents and to questioning under oath on relevant topics.

    Parent
    court cases (none / 0) (#130)
    by linea on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 08:12:15 PM EST
    re: The U.S. case should be interesting, though.

    i'm interested in both the Steele-UK libel case and the Buzzfeed lawsuit (another Bollea v. Gawker?). please let me know if you find any blogs or forums that follow either case.


    Parent

    So, someone filed (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 08:08:16 PM EST
    a libel lawsuit.  Good grief. Any idiot can file a lawsuit.   Did they win?

    But nice of you to cite the conservative Washington Times....

    And, no, linea, Schiller does not have the ability to say that the p party is false.   WE have gone through his actual testimony.  He can't say much that helps Trump.  

    Parent

    my mistake (none / 0) (#132)
    by linea on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 08:25:41 PM EST
    by MKS
    WE have gone through his actual testimony.

    oh! that's completely different! i've only been reading news reports and statements made by his lawyer. i would LOVE ❤️ to read his actual testimony. please post the transcript from the House Intelligence Committee.


    Parent

    Go get it yourself (5.00 / 3) (#148)
    by MKS on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 11:53:24 AM EST
    You are being obtuse here--deliberately I think and hope for your sake.

    Parent
    But (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 02:20:53 PM EST
    Got to do bullet points, all caps with bold and italics and whine about attacks.

    Mission accomplished.

    Parent

    I do not know (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 08:12:10 PM EST
    if the pee party allegations are true.  I do believe that Schiller's testimony proves nothing.

    Your naiveté in believing that Schiller's spin is conclusive undermines the rest of your argument.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#155)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 04:22:52 PM EST
    Putin just denied Russian interfered in our election.

    So I guess we can all forget it and move on now.

    What a relief.

    Parent

    Uggh, you apparently (none / 0) (#131)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 08:25:25 PM EST
    accept the reasoning that these lawsuits are related.

    Do any of them relate to the "pee"  allegations?  It does not appear so.  What really stood out was the reference to Fusion GPS--that is the conservative hobby horse about Hillary that Cheeto wants investigated.....

    It appears you just cut and pasted from a conservative laundry list of bullet point nonsense.....Your post is largely irrelevant to the ongoing conversation about Schiller's testimony....

    Shape shifting changing of the subject.  I am actually surprised and disappointed you fell for this....

    Parent

    i do my own research!! (2.00 / 1) (#134)
    by linea on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 08:47:11 PM EST
    i didn't cut and paste from anyone else! t took me a lot of work to put that bullet point list together!

    and there is no "ongoing conversation about Schiller's testimony"

    there is ME pointing out that Schiller denies the pee party allegation, that so far we have no witness rebutting him, and no witness to the alleged incident... and EVERYBODY ELSE jumping up and down shouting "pee party! pee party!"

    the LIBEL lawsuits are related because it goes to the veracity of the allegations in the dossier which Steele admits were not corroborated or verified.

    Parent

    If you scream any higher, only (5.00 / 3) (#135)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 08:58:18 PM EST
    dogs will be able to hear you.

    Which may not be such a bad thing.

    Parent

    If he had testified that he saw the (none / 0) (#109)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 02:19:16 PM EST
    sun rise in the west, would that make what he said true?

    Do you think everyone who testifies under oath tells the truth?  I'd suggest you take a good look at the multiple testimonies of one Jefferson Beauregard Sessions before you answer that.

    Any idea what could come Schiller's way from the Trumps if he were to throw his old boss under the bus?  Am thinking nothing enrages Trump more than perceived disloyalty (again: see treatment of Jeff Sessions, post-recusal - and even better, consider that much of Trump's attitude toward Obama stems from the blistering remarks Obama made about Trump at the Correspondent's dinner a few years ago).

    Does all of this make it more or less likely that Trump did entertain some sex workers in Moscow in 2013?  I think it could go either way, but given Trump's history, I'd lean toward something happening, even if it didn't involve urination.

    People lie, linea. Or they tell just enough of the truth to make the lies believable.

    Trump lies.  Frequently. Unashamedly.

    And please, do consider how utterly conciliatory Trump is toward Putin; in my opinion, there's a reason for that.  I think he's hiding something.  Whether it's the Night of Five Pr0st!tutes, or something even worse, there's a reason he's trying to keep Putin happy.

    The chickens always come home to roost, linea.

    Parent

    attacked both ways? (none / 0) (#114)
    by linea on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 03:52:28 PM EST
    REALLY?

    i'm getting attacked because... i voice my opinion that, wealthy businessmen and powerful politicians are the demographic that frequently solicits prostitution (and studies support that assertion).

    Pretty "ridiculous" indeed (none / 0) (#88)
    by Yman
    Speculation about Trump using pr0stitutes is perfectly legitimate because he "fits the demographic"

    and i'm getting attacked for... not being strident enough? you need me to be more strident? can i say - in my opinion, it's more likely than not that - d. trump, b. clinton, a large percentage of married politicians in d.c. (including democrats), most wealthy businessmen and particularly those who travel to mosow - have solicited prostitution. can i say that?

    by Anne
    Does all of this make it more or less likely that Trump did entertain some sex workers in Moscow in 2013?  I think it could go either way, but given Trump's history, I'd lean toward something happening, even if it didn't involve urination.

    i have alread posted that... i would certainly be enthusiastic about calling-out, Harvey Weinstein style, all the wealthy businessmen and powerful politicians who have used sex workers (well-know tech billionaires and beloved democratic politicians included) and you are correct that many females are not working willingly. based on all the studies this is the primary demographic for repeat and frequent use of sex workers. let's start with the flight logs of who flew on Jeffrey Epstein's 'Lolita Express' airplane.


    Parent

    You're being "attacked" because you (5.00 / 4) (#116)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 04:39:15 PM EST
    seem to be willing to believe that barely a sentence of denial from Schiller is enough to declare the whole thing a big bunch of nothing.

    And then you want to detour over to Epstein's plane and what all the other wealthy businessmen are doing in their spare time - no, I'm sorry, that's where you want to start.

    It's what-about-ism, pure and simple. "What about" what others did or didn't do is irrelevant to the Steele dossier.  We're not engaging in an investigation of where Trump falls on the sexual "ick" spectrum, we're looking to find out whether Trump was compromised by his activities - on a number of fronts - that gave rise to Russian interference in the election. And whether and how deeply Trump and/or his campaign were involved.

    Keith Schiller's testimony does not resolve those questions, but he has, at least, admitted that the offer was on the table.  I believe that.  What Schiller cannot prove is what Trump did between the time Schiller left, and the next day.

    Parent

    my mistake (none / 0) (#136)
    by linea on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 09:12:26 PM EST
    And then you want to detour over to Epstein's plane and what all the other wealthy businessmen are doing in their spare time

    my mistake
    i misconstrued what you were implying.

    i think you want Special Counsel Robert Mueller to impanel a Grand Jury to investigate whether Trump ever solicited prostitution. or do you want to limit that investigation to his trip to Moscow for the Miss Universe Pageant?

    i'm fine with that.

    some of the actual lawyers on this forum might take issue with every administration being subjected to the same investigation, but i'm fine with it.

    Parent

    What I want is for Mueller to investigate (none / 0) (#138)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 10:08:42 PM EST
    the who, what, when, where and why of the Russian interference in the election, including the possible collusion by the Trump campaign, and whether there is any evidence that Trump may have been involved as a result of compromising personal information in Russia's hands, or financial ties that compromised the integrity of the election.

    I don't believe these are simple issues to get to the bottom of.  There are a lot of people involved, connections to be untangled.

    I don't know what went on in 2013 in Moscow, but I do not believe this aspect of the investigation should be closed on the basis of the testimony of a bodyguard who has shown repeatedly that he will do and say anything to protect Trump.

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by Yman on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 08:49:07 AM EST
    Your statements are being criticized because of faulty, inconsistent logic, specious claims about "wealthy businessmen" simply because they're male and trying to drag Bill Clinton into your specious attacks.

    Parent
    You're being attacked because (3.00 / 2) (#120)
    by McBain on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 06:19:58 PM EST
    you have the audacity to think for yourself, do your own research and stand up for what you believe.  Nothing is going to change the ways of the haters. You can't reason with them.  

    Parent
    No, she is not being "attacked" (5.00 / 4) (#121)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 06:46:14 PM EST
    People are challenging her very faulty reasoning.....

    Conservatives really have a hard time processing this issue.  Having an opinion does not mean that opinion is entitled to deference.

    Parent

    And being "attacked" (1.00 / 1) (#122)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 06:49:41 PM EST
    is jet fuel to conservatives (not saying this is linea) who love to feel aggrieved.

    I have yet to hear a conservative explain their beliefs without referring to an alleged condescension by liberals.....grievance is at the heart of conservatives belief structure.

    Parent

    We also don't know if there was any (none / 0) (#75)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 09:22:20 PM EST
    winking involved, do we?

    Imagine how differently Schiller's remarks would be perceived:

    "We don't do that type of stuff." [wink]

    I can't be the only one who thinks Trump is dying to brag that he could handle five women...and why wouldn't we believe him? I mean, just look at those hands!

    Okay, that's all the snark i can muster on this subject.

    Parent

    As I said above (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 09:37:06 PM EST
    That hotel is famous for surveillance.  I find it completely plausible there is video of party described in the dossier and Putin has it.  Has showed it to Trump and that's why, at least PART of why, he absolutely refuses to say one bad utterance about him.

    Parent
    Just either (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 07:16:59 AM EST
    today or yesterday he's saying Putin says he didn't interfere in the election and so Trump believes Putin. He sounded just like Putin's puppet.

    Parent
    Trump's performance review: (none / 0) (#96)
    by KeysDan on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 11:26:04 AM EST
    "Every time he (Putin) sees me he says, I didn't do that , and I believe, I really believe that when he tells me."   (on Russian interference in election).

    Trump, the domestic bully, seems very weak in confronting Putin, as if he is deliberately leaving us exposed to future attacks.  Trump "believes," ignores the fact that Putin is KBG-trained in deception and lies.  Trump is either more stupid than thought or Kompromat...and, likely, both.

    The Steele Dossier's Ritz Carlton possibilities may be a part of the Kompromat (unless even more devastating than where the imagination can take us), but not all.  Follow the money idea still calls.

    Parent

    Yes, The Steele Dossier, (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by KeysDan on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 08:00:00 AM EST
    while not entirely verified, was of such import that it was an appendix to the Intelligence Agencies Report on Russian hacking during the 2016 election.  It was presented by the Director of National Intel (James Clapper), FBI Director )James Comey), CIA Director (John Brennan), and NSA Director (Mike Rogers). The president-elect was briefed on it by the FBI Director.

    The work of Christopher Steele was highly respected by the intelligence community.  The report has held up well since its release, and is still being scrutinized, as indicated by the questioning of Schiller.

    Parent

    I tend to be unable to forget (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 08:58:47 AM EST
    That most of Christopher Steele's contacts in Russia became dead after the dossier surfaced.

    Parent
    my opinion (none / 0) (#80)
    by linea on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:15:56 PM EST
    re: I can't be the only one who thinks Trump...

    one can certainly speculate that trump, like other wealthy businessmen may have had used sex workers while away on business trips. he is the typical demographic. but the pee story appears to be a fabrication purchased from russians and included in the steele-dossier simply to malign the opposition candidate.

    Newsweek:

    Schiller reacted to those allegations by stating, "Oh my God, that's bullshit".... Two other sources said Schiller said he was confident nothing happened after he left.


    Parent
    I (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 07:07:14 AM EST
    don't know why you take Schiller's word as Gospel? link
    Schiller, Trump's former bodyguard and personal aide, testified that he took the offer as a joke, two of the sources said. On their way up to Trump's hotel room that night, Schiller told the billionaire businessman about the offer and Trump laughed it off, Schiller told the House intelligence committee earlier this week.
    After several minutes outside of Trump's door, which was Schiller's practice as Trump's security chief, he said he left.
    Several minutes of direct observation is a pretty thin reed to base complete confidence on. I find it odd that Shiller waited until the end of the evening to fill him in on this "joke" he had been told at lunch time, a little locker room talk before bedtime I suppose.

    For the record, I have been skeptical of the pee tape allegation, at least the specifics of it. However I always strongly suspected that there was a grain of truth behind it. This is the first verified grain.

    That's how these things progress, first there are no hookers, then there was talk of hookers denied, next it will be he hookers showed up downstairs at the bar anyway and were partying with Emin Agalarov, the tRump clan and their posses, next the party moved upstairs.....  

    Parent

    I think there's a good reason Schiller (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 07:54:01 AM EST
    wants the world to know that he wasn't there the whole time, so that he has plausible deniability, regardless of his confidence level.

    Let's not get hung up on the pee part, because take that out of the mix, and now it's just garden-variety partying with sex workers.

    He wasn't president at the time, or even a candidate, he would have been just a man willing to take sexual advantage of females who may or may not have been working willingly, who may have been under age, who may have been victims of sex trafficking.

    And Keith Schiller?  It was his job to protect Trump, and I have to believe that extends to saying what he needs to to make sure he's still doing that job.

    Parent

    reply to Anne (none / 0) (#107)
    by linea on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 02:10:55 PM EST
    re: `I think there's a good reason Schiller wants the world to know that he wasn't there the whole time, so that he has plausible deniability, regardless of his confidence level.'

    the wild speculation that "maybe something happened latter!" has been denied by Schiller and later by his lawyer reputiating the news media running that spin.

    Stuart Sears, an attorney for Schiller, said the chairman and ranking member of the committee should investigate individuals leaking "misleading versions" of Schiller's testimony

    re: `Let's not get hung up on the pee part, because take that out of the mix, and now it's just garden-variety partying with sex workers."

    the controversy is the validity of the salcious parts of the steele-dossier - the narative is that, because Donald Trump hates the Obamas, he held a pee party in the room and on the bed that Baraks and Michelle Obama previously sleapt on.

    re: He wasn't president at the time, or even a candidate, he would have been just a man willing to take sexual advantage of females who may or may not have been working willingly, who may have been under age, who may have been victims of sex trafficking.

    i would certainly be enthusiastic about calling-out, Harvey Weinstein style, all the wealthy businessmen and powerful politicians who have used sex workers (well-know tech billionaires and beloved democratic politicians included) and you are correct that many females are not working willingly. based on all the studies this is the primary demographic for repeat and frequent use of sex workers. let's start with the flight logs of who flew on Jeffrey Epstein's 'Lolita Express' airplane.

    Parent

    linea, after the Access Hollywood tape (5.00 / 4) (#93)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 09:40:45 AM EST
    nothing seems unlikely in terms of Trump.  That tape was so off the charts depraved, and then women came forward to verify that Cheeto does do that kind of thing....

    No, grabbing women like that is not normal guy behavior.  And, no, bragging about doing so, is not normal locker room talk.

    Parent

    why os this so difficult? (none / 0) (#111)
    by linea on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 03:07:28 PM EST
    linea, after the Access Hollywood tape
    by MKS
    No, grabbing women like that is not normal guy behavior.  And, no, bragging about doing so, is not normal locker room talk.

    for the last year i have ranted on TalkLeft over and over about sex-trafficking and the abuse of females - women and young girls - in the sex industry. i have ranted about forced prostitution and the russian mafia. i have ranted about the inadequate sexual assault laws in the united states. i have ranted about state laws needing to be reformed to follow the nordic model. i have ranted about the horrible federal laws that double-victimize women trafficked across international borders.

    is it really so difficult for some people to understand that pointing out that the pee party allegation, based on current information, appears to a fabrication - isn't an endorsement of president trump, isn't an endorsement of sexual assault, and isn't a betrayal of victimized women?

    Parent

    Why do you blindly (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 03:45:51 PM EST
    believe Trump's bodyguard?

    Why are you so obtuse here?

    Parent

    Acually, the bodyguard's (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 04:11:54 PM EST
    testimony makes me more inclined to believe the more dicey parts of the dossier:  We know for sure, now, the offer of women was real--if a Trump loyalist would admit that, then I think it is probably true.

    So, that is one step further in verifying the accounts.

    But, true, it has not yet been proven, etc.

    As to Schiller's denial, it should be entitled to zero weight.....And he doesn't really deny anything.

    Parent

    Cry for (5.00 / 4) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 04:54:54 PM EST
    Attention

    Parent
    Ha! And it worked (none / 0) (#119)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 05:35:46 PM EST
    Leaving after a few minutes (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 07:01:41 PM EST
    That seems a little fishy.   Why be there for just a few minutes?   Perhaps to leave Cheeto alone on purpose?

    Some suites do have more than one bedroom.  If you have concern about security, what does a few minutes do?

    What Schiller basically testified to was:  an offer of women, that offer was communicated to Trump, Schiller and Trump laughed about the offer(in a boys will be boys way), and Schiller left Trump alone after a few minutes.

    Why would they laugh about such an offer?  A smart but upright person would be concerned. Could they not see the "set up" coming, and what else would the Russians be up to?

    The more I think about it, the more it appears to me that Schiller told the truth about the basic facts (because he was under oath and could not know if videotape existed, etc.) but did all he could to put a benign spin on those facts.

    Parent

    I (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 07:42:14 PM EST
    would hazard a guess that between between tRump and Agalarov they booked the whole floor probably for a week or more. Several minutes standing at one door on one night proves absolutely nothing.

    Parent
    Beyond that (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 08:34:48 PM EST
    The very fact he admitted the offer is odd.  

    It means they knew there was others who may have heard it.  So he admits it but denies they came which of course no one can know.  Well, except maybe Russian Intel since that hotel is famous for being a "honey trap" wired for sound and video to get the goods they can use to turn people.

    The point has been made that it's pretty hard to imagine the offer being made to Bush or Obama.

    Admitting it confirms the prostitute part of the dossier was at least half true.


    Parent

    re: "it's pretty hard to imagine" (none / 0) (#74)
    by linea on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 09:18:47 PM EST
    no it's not. if bush - a wealthy businessman - had traveled to moscow before becoming president then it's more likely than not that he was offered prostitution.

    married wealthy businessmen are the primary repeat clientel for prostitution and sex-trafficked women.

    Parent

    Bush (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 05:52:48 AM EST
    was the 2 term governor of Texas before becoming president. By that time he certainly would NOT have been classified a "wealthy businessman." (I can't believe I just wrote a post coming to the defense of GWB.)

    Parent
    First day of deer season (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 05:02:48 PM EST
    Mitch McConnell calls for Moore to step aside (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by Towanda on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 11:45:26 AM EST
    and says that he believes the women.

    So what happens next will be fascinating.  If Moore wins, will the Senate seat him or censure him?  

    McConnell talks of a write-in campaign, but not only are write-in campaigns notoriously risky . . . Spouse Towanda also points out the problematic issue of writing (and reading) in Alabama, with its illiteracy.

    I think McConnell pretty much just said, (none / 0) (#181)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 12:11:09 PM EST
    "Bring it" to Steve Bannon.

    I think the GOP is in a bit of a corner on this one.  

    Moore's name is already on the ballot, and absentee voting is already taking place.  A write-in is only going to split the GOP vote - maybe it wouldn't be a lot, but it might be enough to take away whatever advantage Moore gains by being the only GOP name on the ballot.

    Even if Moore were to step down, he's still on the ballot and people will likely vote for him anyway.  Could he rescind his withdrawal if he gets enough votes to win?  That would be something, wouldn't it?  "Nevermind..."  Have no idea what the rules are.

    I also think they have a problem if Moore wins.  To refuse to seat a duly elected candidate may set a dangerous precedent, so I'd guess that may not be a viable option.

    That would leave Moore being seated, taking the oath and then resigning from the Senate, so that the governor could appoint an interim Senator with another special election to follow.  I think.  

    Maybe at that point, Sessions cries "uncle," resigns as AG, and then gets appointed to the Senate seat he gave up to take the AG job.

    My head hurts.

    Parent

    Yes, I also have heard of the setup (none / 0) (#182)
    by Towanda on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 12:17:48 PM EST
    to get Sessions back in the Senate, and out of the AG spot -- so that Trump can get his new AG who will not recuse himself (because it will be a him) from the Russia investigation . . . and will fire Mueller.  

    And yes, this eleventyseventh dimensional chess makes the head hurt.  But it's very McConnellian.

    (Note: Deliberate allusion to Machiavellian.)

    Parent

    I actually got that - lol. (none / 0) (#183)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 12:27:35 PM EST
    I'd like to think this is all a futile exercise in rearranging the deck chairs, and that both the Trump administration and the GOP are steaming straight on to a massive iceberg, but I worry about (1) them having no problem taking the rest of us down with them and (2) what horror they could whip up as a diversionary tactic.

    And, of course, I still worry about the Dems finding some way to screw up the opportunity to gain some significant electoral advantages if they don't offer something more than "not Trump, not alt-right."

    But I'm sure there's a pony in there somewhere, right?

    Parent

    As far as mid terms (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 05:50:27 PM EST
    all you have to really campaign on is being a check on Trump.

    Secondly even if you run on issues the press is going to frame it as X and not X. They were all about what a terrible candidate Northam was and how he was going to lose and then when he won big they were all about oh, he won because he was against Trump even though Northam campaigned on issues like expanding Medicaid and gun safety. The press does not do issues anymore so it's up to each voter to inform themselves. The press is about who you want to have a beer with and who you want to invite to a barbecue.

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#191)
    by FlJoe on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 06:03:49 PM EST
    agree the media does not do issues, 2016 quite clearly proved that. No matter what happens before next November, every race will be cast as a referendum on tRumpism as was VA.

    Parent
    Vox (none / 0) (#188)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 05:19:55 PM EST
    has a good article here about the goings on with Moore. I'm not sure they can legally refuse to seat Moore if he wins. He could take them to court if they refused to seat him and frankly I would think he would win that case. It would seem that Moore can be removed from the senate but McConnell would have to round up 67 votes. I can think of 52 right off the bat and there are probably a few more but I'm not sure there would be enough votes to remove him.

    Parent
    ... to police itself, as has the U.S. House. If two-thirds of the Senate (67 senators) decides that Roy Moore is unfit to sit and serve with them, there is little or nothing the courts can do to compel them to accept him. Courts are very loathe to interfere in any internal decision making regarding how Congress conducts itself.

    Parent
    WEll, I might (none / 0) (#196)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 14, 2017 at 12:45:17 PM EST
    be wrong here but I was under the impression that refusing to seat Moore and removing Moore from office were two separate actions.

    Parent
    Not likely he can be refused his seat, (none / 0) (#197)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 14, 2017 at 01:06:32 PM EST
    at least as this article explains:

    Most constitutional law experts agree that under the Supreme Court decision Powell vs. McCormack, the Senate can't refuse to seat Moore. There is much more uncertainty, however, over whether he could be expelled after he takes his seat.

    In 1967, the House excluded New York Rep. Adam Clayton Powell Jr. at the beginning of the 90th Congress because Powell had been accused of misappropriating public funds. He challenged the House's decision, and the Supreme Court held that, because Powell met the Constitution's age, residency and citizenship requirements, he had to be given his seat.

    The justices rejected the House argument that it had expelled Powell as allowed by the Constitution. Article I, Section 5 states that "each House [of Congress] may determine the Rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two- thirds, expel a member." Two-thirds of the House had voted against Powell, but because the congressman had never formally been seated, it didn't count as expulsion.

    Seems like the GOP's best hope is to convince him to withdraw - or for the Alabama GOP to disqualify him before the election.

    Parent

    I can't (none / 0) (#186)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 03:26:55 PM EST
    possibly see how a write in campaign would do much good unless McConnell is hoping to siphon off voters from Moore.

    Parent
    Refined explanation is (none / 0) (#187)
    by Towanda on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 04:24:51 PM EST
    Moore wins (because write-in campaigns don't work, as McConnell well knows) and steps aside -- if GOP Senate won't refuse to seat him, if it actually gets guts -- and the governor then can appoint Sessions to the seat that Jeffrey Beauregard III held fo decades. . . .

    And then, his replacement AG won't recuse from the Russia investigation, fires Mueller, etc.

    Parent

    I do not (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 05:46:20 PM EST
    see Moore stepping aside. I'm sure there is a lot of pressure for him to step down but he does not seem to be doing it. According to the Vox article I linked to they could remove him from the senate with 67 votes. That's about the only way I see the scenario where the governor appoints his replacement. However this a group of people that cannot stand up to a president with at 33% approval rating.

    Parent
    The scenario (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Towanda on Tue Nov 14, 2017 at 01:36:17 PM EST
    does not rely on Moore stepping aside, as it is evident to all that a warrior for Jeebus does not do so.

    I have to say that I also am skeptical of the Senate doing so.  Heck, maybe the Repubs cannot get needed Demo votes to do so, as it would be weirdly amusing to keep Moore there to make his Repub colleagues miserable.

    Parent

    Privacy is good. (none / 0) (#1)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 04:02:47 AM EST
    But that said, your new granddaughter Karter is beautiful. Congratulations, Grandma.

    My eldest daughter is due in early January with her second child. I wish we could be there for it, but like you, we're both working grandparents -- and we also now live 220 miles away. Thankfully, her mother-in-law will be coming out from New York for three weeks to assist, which is great because our first grandchild turns two years old in one month and he's still in diapers. They'll have their hands full.

    Aloha.


    Beautiful baby, Jeralyn - congrats! (none / 0) (#4)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 06:00:54 AM EST
    Glad everyone came through it all well, if not utterly pooped!

    Have a wonderful time this weekend, meeting and snuggling baby Karter; from my own experience, once you hold them, that's pretty much all you want to do, so be prepared for withdrawal when you return home.  I am so lucky to be able to run 5 miles up the road to get my latest baby snuggles when the need strikes.

    I don't come from a big family, either, but one of my sons-in-law has 3 siblings, all married, all with 2 kids, so being included in their family gatherings can be overwhelming, but in a good way.  There's lots of laughter and happy kids chaos, plus good food and just plain fun - everyone needs a dose of that once in a while.

    Enjoy - will look forward to however much of this new adventure you want to share!

    Aw (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 07:42:49 AM EST
    congrats to the TL kids and to you Jeralyn. Glad to see everyone is so happy and the baby is healthy!

    I can't imagine what it is like to go from 2 to that many people because my mother was one of four girls and there were always tons of people around on holidays. I hope you will really like it once you get used to it.

    Kute Kid! (none / 0) (#9)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 09:57:32 AM EST


    Highly approve... (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:31:22 AM EST
    of the use of K's...best letter in the alphabet.

    Parent
    Now it's being reported Louis CK's film (none / 0) (#10)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:03:06 AM EST
    Won't be released
    Indie distributor The Orchards says Louis C.K.'s film "I Love You, Daddy" will not be released, following a report on sexual misconduct by the comedian.

    I watched some of the CK coverage on CNN and Fox TV last night. Typical rush to judgement but this time with extremely embarrassing details included.  

    those darn details (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:13:14 AM EST
    they do make it hard for the "rush to judgement" crowd.

    poor babies.

    Parent

    "Typical rush to judgment" (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Yman on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:26:41 AM EST
    Define "rush to judgment".  This is not a criminal court, and in many instances (i.e. Roy Moore, etc.), there will never be a criminal trial.  But you're right - could be mass delusion on the part of the victims.

    Parent
    Never so happy to NOT be an Alabama resident (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:37:27 AM EST
    It's so gross

    I would feel physically ill still living there.

    Packing, the best thing that ever happened to me

    Parent

    The whole (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:56:58 AM EST
    Joseph-was-much-older-than-the-teenage-Virgin)- Mary excuse offered by so called Christians of Roy Moore's alleged conduct is just too, too weird.

    These people are beyond nutty...

    Parent

    "if" these allegations are true, (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by KeysDan on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 12:13:33 PM EST
    say the Republican senators (per universal talking point), then Moore should drop out....  Sounds like this unorthodox reading of the Bible is an odd excuse for what Moore did. but, it is an excuse...it reveals that.they believe the women.

      But, I wonder what they are looking for? Hard proof? .. videotapes from yesteryear?

      A judge that was booted from the Alabama Supreme Court on ethics matters twice (defiance on Ten Commandment display and US Supreme Court decision) does not offer the best character reference, just for starters.  And, too, there is the sketchy use of funds from his  non-profit "Foundation for Moral Law."

    No further afield than the Virgin Mary defense, is my conclusive and damming evidence that the Bible-thumping "Minister of the Morals" (per Le Cage a Folles) is that Moore plied the then teenagers   with Mateus Rose wine on "dates."

     So perfect a period choice it clinches the truthfulness of the story.  And, then there is the Alabama legal age for drinking of 19 years, and his providing beverage choices legally premature for the teen "dates."    Lock him up.

    Parent

    Mateus Rose really does lock it up (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 09:28:48 AM EST
    I am in the age range of the then teens he was after. Americans haven't always been discerning winos. Back then that was a high rolling wine. Our parents drank it when things were special.

    Not long ago one of my wine friends did bring up that there was a time we all desired to drink some Mateus. She asked if we could believe we all used to drink that? I at first wanted to deny it...hahaha.

    Parent

    But, see, Moore is revered for standing (none / 0) (#26)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 12:44:42 PM EST
    up to the judicial system that decided the Constitution trumped Moore's religious beliefs, because in the minds of the ultra-Christianists, man's laws will never trump God's.

    These are people who don't recognize any law that isn't consistent with religious law, as interpreted to mesh with their own personal beliefs, and as handed down to them via their religious leaders.

    The Roy Moores and Joe Arpaios are elevated onto pedestals for their staunch defiance of the law.

    Unless, of course, man's laws can be used to their advantage.

    I don't know of a better way to turn people away from religion than to make people like Roy Moore the public face of it.

    Tracy and other of our southern friends can weigh in, but it has always seemed to me that people like Moore, in the south especially, feel so closely connected to God that they feel the right to take on the infallibility of God and use it to give themselves better lives, while punishing those who do not follow the same "moral" code.

    There will be no changing these people.  There will be no repentance or requests for forgiveness, or acknowledgment of wrongdoing.  They will continue to be supported and defended, in much the way we are seeing now.

    He could very well win his race, unless the state party disqualifies him, he withdraws from the race, or, should he win, the US Senate refuses to seat him.

    We may all have to make friends with the veins throbbing in our heads, because I think there's worse on the way, and it's going to get the same reaction: "so what? At least he's not a Democrat."

    Parent

    shorter version (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 03:47:14 PM EST
    he makes libruls cry so he is my guy.

    this one is going to do wonders when it comes to quenching that wildfire of female rage burning across the country.

    Parent

    But, Roy Moore (none / 0) (#58)
    by KeysDan on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 05:36:07 PM EST
    is a family man.  he loves children  and hates all the things they hate. And, its all OK, supported by the Jesus, Mary and Joseph biblical example.

    Parent
    Jesus Mary and Joseph (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 06:18:47 PM EST
    Is right.

    You know, they keep playing the video of him whipping out that teeny little gun.

    When I see that all I see is how LIMP that wrist is.  With no sound I can literally hear him sayin

    don't mess with me Mary.  I got this right HERE


    Parent
    Try it yourself (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 06:22:07 PM EST
    Mary's and Joseph's Ages are not in the Bible (none / 0) (#63)
    by RickyJim on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 06:28:04 PM EST
    But of course, plenty of speculation since then.  One early Christian version was that he was 95 and she was 14.  But what does that have to do with the accusations of statutory rape against Roy Moore?  Would he claim that having sex with a 14 year old was not against the law in first century Judea so the law at the time of his alleged crime doesn't apply to him?

    Parent
    Yeah, (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 09:30:05 PM EST
    that's exactly the point. Mary was supposedly 14 and since they don't think we've learned anything in the last few hundred years that the bible should basically be how we write laws in this country. So yeah, it was okay to molest a 14 year old in the 70's because Jesus's father did it or something.

    Parent
    Traditional Values.. (none / 0) (#145)
    by jondee on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 09:13:16 AM EST
    as if every other person in Alabama didn't have a great great grandmother who got hitched to her first cousin by Marryin' Sam when she was 13..

    Ole Roy is just a Bible-believin' throwback to simpler times. Hell, he'll probly live to be 900, like Methusalah. Yessir.

    Parent

    It does not look like Alabama Republicans will (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 11:38:03 AM EST
    Attempt to derail his candidacy today. If DC Republicans want rid of him it'll take 2/3 vote of the Senate, or more victims come forward and Alabama Republicans are forced to fight him. And they can still fail to overpower him.

    I assume DC prefers Luther, but will the Alabama governor play if the Senate refuses to seat him? Will she help them and cheerfully appoint someone else? DC Republicans sound like they are exploring the legalities of this option, but I assume if she won't play it's uphill, ugly, risky.

    Everything is risky for them though, and they seem to not understand this tax stuff is much more dangerous for all of them. I don't know how they don't see this, but they don't see this.

    Parent

    I hope they don't remove Moore (none / 0) (#101)
    by Peter G on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 12:41:53 PM EST
    as a candidate, since keeping him in the race increases significantly the chances of Alabama electing the excellent Doug Jones as their next Senator in December's special election.

    Parent
    I hear you (none / 0) (#104)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 01:02:45 PM EST
    I'm horrified though that Moore could also sit in the Senate.

    Our friends in Poland sent messages yesterday to check the news. It was their Independence Day and since 2009 fascists all over Europe have been meeting and marching in Warsaw on Poland's Independence Day.

    This was the biggest fascist get together. The Antifa fights them in the streets. Most Warsaw citizens plan to stay indoors and off the streets.

    Richard Spencer attempted to attend but Polish government decided to not allow him entrance into the country.

    The fascist slogan this year was adopted from Trump's speech in Warsaw where he quoted an old Polish song.

    Parent

    I'm thinking Polanski, who (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 03:51:58 PM EST
    was viewed with a great deal of sympathy here.

    Parent
    i am one (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 04:16:35 PM EST
    mr Ps "accuser" was not among those out for his blood.

    isnt that true?

    Parent

    I respect the prosecution's decision (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 04:26:42 PM EST
    to prosecute the case.   The plea bargain was apparently entered into bc the victim's mother did not want her daughter to have to testify.  

    Parent
    not exactly (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 04:37:36 PM EST
    she said this when he was nominated for THE PIANO

    Samantha Geimer, now 39, had stepped forward to write in the Los Angeles Times last month that she harbors no hard feelings or sympathy toward Polanski, but hopes "he and his film" are "honored according to the quality of the work."

    however, my bad.  i have not kept up and i just read there was a new accuser, or newer accuser, who tells a different story.

    so, fine.  nail him.

    Parent

    my feelings (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 04:38:37 PM EST
    about Polanski was all about the fact his accuser did not really seem interested in punishing him.

    Parent
    Prosecutor's office in Switzerland (none / 0) (#55)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 04:40:53 PM EST
    declined to prosecute.

    Parent
    as they should have (none / 0) (#64)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 06:29:15 PM EST
    The statute of limitations was up a long time ago. Coming forward with an accusation 45 years after the crime should be outlawed.

    Parent
    Of course. (none / 0) (#65)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 06:42:54 PM EST
    I tend to agree (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 06:44:17 PM EST
    However
    I would make a exception when the accused is on the brink of being elevated to one of the most powerful offices in the land by making himself a fire and brimstone defended of moral rectitude

    Parent
    That Moore cannot be prosecuted after (none / 0) (#69)
    by Peter G on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 08:28:23 PM EST
    so long does not mean he is exempt from having to answer forthrightly whether he did or did not blatantly and knowingly commit crimes against underage women (and girls) when he was a 30-something county prosecutor (and a West Pointer, somehow). How he answers that question is relevant to his present fitness for election to the U.S. Senate (as if there were still any question about that).

    Parent
    He said today (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 08:38:35 PM EST
    He had never met his accuser. It seems like that might come back to bite him.

    Parent
    I'd like to see your link for that (none / 0) (#94)
    by Peter G on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 10:12:32 AM EST
    denial. The one I read was cagier in its phrasing: "I don't know Ms. Corfman from anybody," he said. "The allegations of sexual misconduct with her are completely false." (not remembering her by name, or not being able to recognize her, if that's what he meant, might be true of most people we knew 40 years ago, as teens, if we were to see them again now). Flatly denying undefined "sexual misconduct" (remember Bill Clinton's "sexual relations") and then only "with her" (whom he just said he didn't specifically remember as an individual) doesn't impress me, as a lawyer, either. The Washington Post says:
    on Sean Hannity's radio show, Moore gave a long, sometimes contradictory explanation of the allegations, fully denying the accusation of sexual contact with the 14-year-old but leaving open the possibility that he had dated other teenagers.
    link The Atlantic's version of the Hannity interview, on the other hand, only says Hannity asked Moore about "dating" 17 or 18 year-olds and omitted any direct question about the 14-year-old.

    Parent
    You are right (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 10:42:20 AM EST
    /as usual\

    I went to a, what...wake? ...get together? ...
    FAmily thing?...this morning.  There was a death in the family...any way, not the point.  I saw several family members.  
    Now, for the most part, there is one "even if it's true" branch of my family tree - we have fun laughing at them, my family is deeply - if you will pardon the conceit- really religious.

    They mean it.  They Live it. They are extremely fundamentalist christians, but the completely accept me.  So...
    Sorry for the digression but it's important to my point.
    When I saw them the topic, as it always does - we are a very 'topical' family, we don't agree but we pay attention, to current events.
    Including Moore.
    Remember these are Trump voters, that another comment.
    I was surprised how, looking for the right word...angry? Yeah, maybe, embarrassed?...by the Moore thing was received.
    Especially the last 24 hours.  The were horrified by the bible references.  Horrified.  I would say deeply offended.
    The word heresy was actually used.

    So

    I don't know what this means.  But an optimist would say there are probably"actual" Christians in AL.  Maybe enough.

    Parent

    Of the nerd herd Alabama families (none / 0) (#98)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 12:03:01 PM EST
    That Josh united, 2 are Evangelical, 1 Catholic, and 2 (us included) lean atheist.

    One Evangelical family is all in for Moore and hates those lying $lut$. One Evangelical family is horrified. They have never turned a blind eye to sexual abuse though. They were very aware as a family and obviously protected their children. They really had to know you before they trusted you with their kids.

    We have not heard officially from the Catholic family but based on past issues I would place them also in the horrified column. They were not pro Trump either. But they weren't a Clinton vote. Nobody in Alabama was a meaningful Clinton vote though.

    Parent

    FWIW (none / 0) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 03:03:49 PM EST
    the people that I know like your family are just silent.

    Parent
    your phrase (none / 0) (#67)
    by linea on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 08:09:38 PM EST
    re: declined to prosecute

    i believe it would be more acurate to say that the swiss courts were unable to prosecute because "Criminal proceedings would be prohibited under statute of limitation rules."

    Swiss prosecutors say the statute of limitations prevents them from charging Roman Polanski with the rape of a minor in 1972. Renate Langer is the fourth woman to say the director sexually assaulted her in her teens.


    Parent
    His supporters/defenders are ... (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Yman on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 12:26:25 PM EST
    ... an embarrassment to the human race, let alone their state.  Willful ignorance is not a virtue.  Defending/excusing $exual molestation and predatory behavior exposes them for who they really are.  Every time I hear a Republican try to claim they are the party of family values, G0d, truth, etc., I will laugh in their face ...

    ... loudly.

    Parent

    Yes, (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 12:30:20 PM EST
    I could not even make it through the whole article. It was just too disgusting.

    Parent
    MTracy (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 12:44:55 PM EST
    how on earth did you survive living among such .....er, people?

    Parent
    You guys (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 12:58:31 PM EST
    Burying my social contact in TalkLeft. Planning get togethers out of state. Keeping my head in the larger politics interacting with all of you. Ignoring the local politics as much as I could.

    A confession. I refused to have an Alabama driver's license. I kept Colorado as long as they would allow me and cuz spouse is soldier they allowed me. Now I have Maryland ID. I could not bring myself to, refused to possess Alabama ID. I just could not do it. My spouse had no choice. Military regs now require him to have valid ID where ever he PCSs to.

    I miss our house sometimes. We did a lot of work on it. We sold it quickly though. It was sold before we pulled out of the driveway. It is all I miss.

    Everything else is an enormous relief.

    Parent

    A "rush" to judgment (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:50:09 AM EST
     is not what you call it when, as in the case of Louis C.K., it was 5 women (for now - I suspect there will be more) - with contemporaneous corroborating details, and even written apologies from CK.

    Maybe it feels rushed to you because the larger world is just hearing about it now, but when multiple women report similar incidents over a number of years, report the details to others at the time they occurred, and powerful people step in to discourage any resolution or accountability, and the alleged perpetrator apologizes for and acknowledges the inappropriateness of his behavior, I don't think the judgment people are making is inconsistent with the details.  Or in any way "rushed."

    Maybe someday, men will stop acting like pigs and women can stop worrying that by virtue of being female, they will always and forever be blamed for whatever intrusive, unasked for, offensive sexual advances men just can't seem to control themselves from doing.

    Parent

    I can't even remember who tweeted it Anne (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 01:01:16 PM EST
    A comedian tweeted after the first CK story that the shoe that surprises no one in comedy has dropped.

    Parent
    You're entitled to believe (none / 0) (#34)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 02:01:44 PM EST
    where there's smoke or there's fire.  I choose to wait until more facts come out.  Months ago, there was a rush to judgement in the Bill Cosby case because there were several accusers telling similar stories.  I never jumped on that bandwagon.  Neither did Jerarlyn who wrote a good summery/opinion of the mistrial verdtict...
    Did you attack or criticize her for doing that?

    As for your post...

    "Maybe someday, men will stop acting like pigs and women can stop worrying that by virtue of being femalem they will always and forever be blamed.."

    I imagine there will be fewer cases of sexual harassment in the work place but people are still going to be people.  The desire for sexual gratification is strong and there will always be crimes and awkward misunderstandings because of it.

    Parent

    "Awkward misunderstandings" - heh (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Yman on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 02:11:06 PM EST
    Is that what you're calling it, now?

    Pfffftttt ...

    BTW - Is Louis CK being tried criminally at the moment?  Because that's context for the Cosby mistrial decision, which by no means indicates the accusations against him by his many accusers were false.  Luckily for Cosby, many of those accusations and their supporting evidence were never even heard by the jurors.

    Parent

    The desire and means to charge (none / 0) (#35)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 02:08:07 PM EST
    And punish those who sexually gratify themselves upon my person without consent is strong

    Parent
    Sometimes it's hard to charge (none / 0) (#39)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 02:19:41 PM EST
    people for doing what Louis CK admitted to doing with a crime. If we're talking about all the recent acts and allegations of celebrities, businessmen and politicians.... some are obviously crimes. Some aren't crimes but are professionally inappropriate and can lead to civil cases.  Some are just people being people and shouldn't be discussed in the media. I don't think anyone knows what all the rules are right now.

    Parent
    good god (5.00 / 5) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 03:30:25 PM EST
    don't think anyone knows what all the rules are right now

    seriously>

    actually im pretty fu@king sure EVERYONE knows what the "rules" are.  and always have.

    for people like yourself its more about what can be gotten away with.

    which sadly for them is a heck of a lot less than it "used to be"


    Parent

    Nobody calls men out on their BS (none / 0) (#59)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 05:46:52 PM EST
    Better than other men

    Parent
    Confusing, huh? (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Yman on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 03:37:35 PM EST
    Some aren't crimes but are professionally inappropriate and can lead to civil cases.  Some are just people being people and shouldn't be discussed in the media. I don't think anyone knows what all the rules are right now.

    Which ones are you having trouble with?  Is $exually touching a 14-year-old just "people being people"?  Or perhaps drugging women?  Or threatening/blackballing women's careers when they won't consent to $ex?  Or maybe it's kissing them or grabbing their genitals without their consent?

    "People being people" - dear GAWD.

    Parent

    You still don't seem to understand that (none / 0) (#37)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 02:12:13 PM EST
    this isn't about sexual gratification with a woman; it's about being turned on by being able to exert power over them.

    So now, what - you don't believe Louis C.K. himself?

    I want to address the stories told to The New York Times by five women named Abby, Rebecca, Dana, Julia who felt able to name themselves and one who did not.

    These stories are true. At the time, I said to myself that what I did was O.K. because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn't a question. It's a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly. I have been remorseful of my actions. And I've tried to learn from them. And run from them. Now I'm aware of the extent of the impact of my actions. I learned yesterday the extent to which I left these women who admired me feeling badly about themselves and cautious around other men who would never have put them in that position. I also took advantage of the fact that I was widely admired in my and their community, which disabled them from sharing their story and brought hardship to them when they tried because people who look up to me didn't want to hear it. I didn't think that I was doing any of that because my position allowed me not to think about it. There is nothing about this that I forgive myself for. And I have to reconcile it with who I am. Which is nothing compared to the task I left them with. I wish I had reacted to their admiration of me by being a good example to them as a man and given them some guidance as a comedian, including because I admired their work.

    The hardest regret to live with is what you've done to hurt someone else. And I can hardly wrap my head around the scope of hurt I brought on them. I'd be remiss to exclude the hurt that I've brought on people who I work with and have worked with who's professional and personal lives have been impacted by all of this, including projects currently in production: the cast and crew of Better Things, Baskets, The Cops, One Mississippi, and I Love You, Daddy. I deeply regret that this has brought negative attention to my manager Dave Becky who only tried to mediate a situation that I caused. I've brought anguish and hardship to the people at FX who have given me so much The Orchard who took a chance on my movie. and every other entity that has bet on me through the years. I've brought pain to my family, my friends, my children and their mother.

    I have spent my long and lucky career talking and saying anything I want. I will now step back and take a long time to listen. Thank you for reading.

    Power.  How many times did he use that word?

    And he knew, the whole time he was doing it, that it was wrong.

    It wasn't the women that got him hard, it was the power he had over them.

    Parent

    Anne, you don't have quote the entire (none / 0) (#42)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 02:44:47 PM EST
    statement.  That's what links are for.  

    So now, what - you don't believe Louis C.K. himself?

    I believe that was a very well written statement by CK and whoever helped him with it.  I doubt it's 100% how he actually feels. I predict he will still have a career in comedy.  It might take a while but lots of people believe in second chances.  

    Parent

    All of which is irrelevant ... (none / 0) (#44)
    by Yman on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 03:09:01 PM EST
    ... to the fact that he actually DID it.  But those who want to defend this predatory behavior will continue to pretend they are defending this behavior in the name of "fairness".  That we should "wait for all the facts to come out" - which, of course, will rarely or never happen.  Who will continue to pretend that multiple women will make up these accusations for some unknown reason.  Then they'll pretend they're believers in "second chances" for these predators when, in fact, the reason they're happy to offer a "second chance" is because they're actually fine with the underlying, predatory behavior.

    Parent
    So, now, you're going to deflect away (none / 0) (#56)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 05:26:46 PM EST
    from whether he did it or not - his admission is right there in black and white - to questioning how he "really" feels, and muse about the chances he will ever have a career again.

    People do believe in second chances, but as I see it, he had a chance every time he exerted his power to force himself on women to (1) apologize,  (2) be accountable for his behavior and (3) choose to not ever do it again.

    If he gets another chance, it sure as hell won't be a "second" chance, it will, by the time this ends, likely be somewhere in the double digits.  And that's probably asking more than most people are going to be willing to give him.

    Parent

    I'm not convinced his statement was (none / 0) (#108)
    by McBain on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 02:12:33 PM EST
    100% accurate.  Not so much acts but how he now feels about the situation. I believe it was a calculated effort to save his career.  

    It sounds like he has some kind of exhibitionist fetish involving self gratification. It's been weird/hilarious seeing "experts" talk bout these acts on cable news.      

    Parent

    Now that's an apology (none / 0) (#50)
    by Peter G on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 04:07:07 PM EST
    A real apology. Not "I'm sorry if anyone was offended, even though I never intended to hurt anyone."

    Parent
    Louis C.K. has been unmasked as a real creep. (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 12:02:05 PM EST
    And Matt Zoller Seitz explains why so many of us are now likely done with both him and others like him:

    "This kind of revelation changes the relationship between the artist and the art, in a way that places an unasked-for, unfair burden on the audience. This is what's happening culture-wide. And it's not the fault of people who didn't report it, or audiences who aren't sophisticated enough to separate the art from the artist. It's the fault of the artists for being secret creeps or criminals, and the fault of the system for making it possible for them to act this way for years without being punished.

    "The allegations against C.K. also constitute a form of betrayal, against an audience that trusts artists to make edgy, even unlikable work, and gives them the benefit of the doubt when they wade into the deepest, darkest parts of their imagination.

    "A well-crafted, intelligent story about the impact of rape, domestic violence, pederasty, and so forth is already tough to watch. It becomes a horrendous experience once you add the possibility that the writer or director actually did what they're depicting, and might be getting off on making the audience squirm by representing it while not fessing up to their relationship with it. It's a power move, rooted in the thrill of subterfuge and shock: an artist's version of indecent exposure."

    [...]

    "There's no reason to feel remorse for disinvesting affection we sunk into artists who are later revealed to be criminals or abusers. There's no reason to have qualms about stamping their work 'Of Archival Interest Only' and moving on to something new -- not just new work, but a new paradigm for relationships in show business, and all business. The women who came forward opened themselves to being ostracized and re-traumatized. The only reason they spoke up is to make show business, and the world, safer and more humane. Time to listen."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    We toured the African American Smithsonian (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 01:06:33 PM EST
    Before its official opening. The Cosby story had just broke. Bill and Camille Cosby have a beautiful extensive art collection by black artists. They had loaned many many pieces to the Smithsonian while the installations were being completed. It was sad. It was uncomfortable. For everyone going through that day :(

    Parent
    Louis CK has issued a statement (none / 0) (#28)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 12:46:38 PM EST
    admitting the accusations are true. So much for the rush to judgement. Maybe one day you will come to the realization the multiple victims of this type don't pull these charges out of their a$$.

    Parent
    No Chuck, it was still a rush to judgement (none / 0) (#33)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 01:37:00 PM EST
    They assumed the allegations were true before knowing. If only they had waited one more day.

    Parent
    "One more day" (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Yman on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 02:15:01 PM EST
    Or, in most cases - forever.  Because in many/most of these instances, there will never be a criminal trial, and you and your ilk will continue to pretend we must not "rush to judgment" until all the facts are known, which - of course - will never occur.

    But you already knew that ...

    Parent

    It's likely a rush to judgment when ... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 02:23:45 PM EST
    ... only one allegation of misconduct is made, and our opinions are duly formed on the basis of that single occurrence. But when the same allegation is offered on the record by multiple women, whose only tangential relationship with one another is their own respective acquaintances with the accused, one can hardly fault the public for putting two and two together.

    For all his faults, I'll give Louis C.K. considerable credit here for forthrightly owning up to his disreputable actions and disgusting behavior, and appropriately showing remorse and contrition for the pain and harm he inflicted upon his victims. Only last year, he had denied industry chatter of this sort of misconduct in a media interview, dismissing it as "rumors, that's all that is." So, His willingness to finally admit his transgressions without any condition or expectation is indeed noteworthy, even if it's not necessarily deserving of fulsome or even minimal praise.

    In very sharp contrast to so many of the male celebrities and other prominent men who've recently and similarly stood accused and have chosen to run away and hide -- or worse still, have attempted to intimidate their victims into a renewed silence by charging them all with lying -- C.K.'s summoned forth his inner mensch, and that's the first step toward eventual forgiveness and redemption. And while he may never again regain the heights of his once-flourishing career in show business, at least he can start to reclaim his own soul.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Here is Louis C.K.'s public statement: (none / 0) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 02:38:50 PM EST
    "I want to address the stories told to The New York Times by five women named Abby, Rebecca, Dana, Julia who felt able to name themselves and one who did not. These stories are true.

    [...]

    "I have been remorseful of my actions. And I've tried to learn from them. And run from them. Now I'm aware of the extent of the impact of my actions. I learned yesterday the extent to which I left these women who admired me feeling badly about themselves and cautious around other men who would never have put them in that position.

    [...]

    "The hardest regret to live with is what you've done to hurt someone else. And I can hardly wrap my head around the scope of hurt I brought on them. I'd be remiss to exclude the hurt that I've brought on people who I work with and have worked with who's professional and personal lives have been impacted by all of this[.] ... I've brought pain to my family, my friends, my children and their mother.

    "I have spent my long and lucky career talking and saying anything I want. I will now step back and take a long time to listen.

    "Thank you for reading."

    (Emphasis is mine.) LINK.

    Parent

    She's a beauty!! (none / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:15:22 AM EST


    "Some folks look for answers, (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 11:12:52 AM EST
    others look for fights.
    Some folks up in treetops,
    just look to see the sights.


    It's almost time for Opening Night!


    Beautiful! (none / 0) (#21)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 11:16:23 AM EST
    and be assertive to get your snuggle time, grandma, with all of those relatives competing for time, too.  This is going to be a much-loved little girl.  I am from a huge family and well recall my children's delight at being embraced by so many aunts, uncles, cousins. . . .

    But their father was an only child, of a widow, and with few relatives -- so I also well recall his reaction, like yours, to finding himself surrounded by a huge family.  He never could compete in what he called the Constantly Talking Olympics. Vut he always was amazed at how suddenly the talking ceased at the dining table, and at the speed with which we dined, too -- because you had to focus on the food and on eating fast for any hope of "seconds."

    This (none / 0) (#57)
    by FlJoe on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 05:28:01 PM EST
    seems outrageous to me
    Brett J. Talley, President Trump's nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was unanimously rated "not qualified" by the American Bar Assn.'s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee, denouncing "Hillary Rotten Clinton" and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn.

    On Thursday, the Senate Judiciary Committee, on a party-line vote, approved him for a lifetime appointment to the federal bench.



    Trump (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 05:46:59 PM EST
    Is nominating people left and right who's only "qualification" is their glaring lack of any qualification.

    did you see this hearing moment where Whitehouse questions a "science advisor"?

    Parent

    these must be the people you find (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 09:24:07 PM EST
    when you drain the swamp.

    Parent
    i would think (none / 0) (#81)
    by linea on Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:31:23 PM EST
    it's a different interpretation of `qualifications.' i'm sure the trump administration and his supporters considered a firm commitment to gun-rights and strong opposition to women's health choices to be the essential qualifications for an appointment as a federal judge.

    Parent
    From (none / 0) (#85)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 07:22:50 AM EST
    In case there was any doubt files,Trump says he believes Putin's election meddling denials
    Da Nang, Vietnam (CNN)President Donald Trump suggested on Saturday he's done confronting Russian President Vladimir Putin over his country's election meddling since it's insulting to the Russian leader.
    I guess there is certain irony with the surrender being signed in Da Nang and history will show that tRump's aversion to insulting people led to our downfall.


    Congratulations (none / 0) (#90)
    by Steve13209 on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 09:04:31 AM EST
    Thanks for the pictures, Jeralyn. Babies, and new parents, are such a joy.

    Ooh! Ooh! Right-wing game changer! (none / 0) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 12:31:01 PM EST
    FOX News | November 11, 2017
    Roy Moore accuser worked for Clinton campaign as interpreter, reports say - "One of the women accusing Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore of sexual impropriety reportedly worked as a sign language interpreter for Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, a new report claims. Deborah Wesson Gibson, who told The Washington Post that she briefly dated Moore when she was 17 and he was 34, founded the language interpreting company, Signs of Excellence, and has worked for a number of democratic campaigns, according to Alabama Local News."

    I knew it. As always on FOX News, everything is Hillary Clinton's fault.

    The ex-14-year-old is a Republican (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Peter G on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 12:51:44 PM EST
    who voted for Trump: "Corfman, 53, who works as a customer service representative at a payday loan business, says she has voted for Republicans in the past three presidential elections, including for Donald Trump in 2016." According to the original WaPo story.

    Parent
    Roy Moore's wife did not appear (none / 0) (#105)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 01:58:32 PM EST
    To be holding up well this morning. He appears to be fine though.

    Parent
    George Takei speaks out against Kevin Spacey (none / 0) (#106)
    by McBain on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 02:01:13 PM EST
    Link
    and then faces his own sexual misconduct related allegation
    which he denies
    The events he describes back in the 1980s simply did not occur, and I do not know why he has claimed them now. I have wracked my brain to ask if I remember Mr. Brunton, and I cannot say I do...

    It is bizarre watching Hollywood turn on itself right now... trying to figure out who's next, who to distance itself from. I wonder what the lawyers and PR people are thinking?  It it better to come forward and say what did or didn't happen or is it better not to say anything?

    Three UCLA basketball players detained (none / 0) (#133)
    by McBain on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 08:27:14 PM EST
    in China with shoplifting allegations.
    The trio was questioned by police about allegedly stealing from a Louis Vuitton store next to the team's hotel in Hangzhou last week, where the Bruins visited before leaving for Shanghai.

    Will be interesting to see how long they stay there. The rest of the team has gone home. I haven't followed UCLA basketball in years.  I forgot Steve Alford was their coach.  He was one of my favorite college players of the 80s.  

    i would never (none / 0) (#137)
    by linea on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 09:51:51 PM EST
    there is video tape.

    what Louis Vuitton item might they have allegedly stolen?
    maybe a case for an iphone?
    or designer sunglasses?
    my money is on the LV LEAGUE HAT.

    i would never go to china.

    or any totalitarian or third world country. i would never go to mexico or china or russia or thailand or india or the african continent. to name a few.

    Parent

    If so, then that's your choice. (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 11:51:55 PM EST
    But in my opinion, for whatever that's worth, you're potentially depriving yourself of some wonderful experiences abroad. Our last two overseas trips were to southern Africa (South Africa, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia, Zambia, Mozambique, Swaziland and Lesotho), and then Vietnam and Tokyo, Japan. Both trips were totally awesome. The ruling regime doesn't necessarily reflect the nature of the people.

    Our next scheduled trip will be to Cuba in March 2018. Can't wait.

    Parent

    My sister lives on China. (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 07:59:18 AM EST
    Has been there over 10 years and loves it. You are very small minded about the rest of the world. Seems kind of trumpy.

    Parent
    okay (none / 0) (#151)
    by linea on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 03:15:48 PM EST
    i will interpret `trumpy' as provincial (a person who lacks urban sophistication or broad-mindedness) rather than a politcal reference.

    i think perhaps for many people world travel is related to the idea of the `transformative journey' that makes one sophisticated or `arduous quest' that proves one a man. i don't need that.

    really, vacation traveling is simply entertainment. people enjoy different things as entertainment. you might find motorcycling across africa or backpacking in kashmir to be `thrilling' but i would not.

    Parent

    Africa and Kashmir (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 03:50:57 PM EST
    Weep

    Parent
    explain this to me (none / 0) (#157)
    by linea on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 05:19:32 PM EST
    Africa and Kashmir (#152)
    by CaptHowdy
    Weep

    explain this to me.

    it's clearly meant to be an insulting snark (unrelated to the topic) but it is not clear to me what you are trying to imply.


    Parent

    Correct. (none / 0) (#168)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 10:05:09 PM EST
    Was not meant politically. 😊

    Parent
    I wouldn't be afraid to go to most of those (none / 0) (#147)
    by McBain on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 11:01:03 AM EST
    counties but I'd make sure to be on my best behavior.

    Parent
    i found this (none / 0) (#139)
    by linea on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 11:26:03 PM EST
    everything i read speculates that the basketball players will get something like 20 days house arrest. but i did find this:

    Ira Belkin, a former federal prosecutor and adjunct professor of law at NYU who specializes in the Chinese legal system, said a key question in the case is value of the items the UCLA players are accused of stealing.

    "That would determine whether the charges are criminal in nature or administrative," Belkin wrote in an e-mail, making the point that China's legal system has two tiers of punishment for those found guilty of crimes: traditional criminal punishment, which can be harsh, and administrative punishment, which can be restitution, fines and/or days in prison.



    Parent
    We're having our first monsoon ... (none / 0) (#141)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 11:55:58 PM EST
    ... of the rainy season tonight. Lots of lightning and thunder outside -- and man, is it pouring. I'd guess that we've received about five inches so far, but I'm not venturing outside in this mess to check the rain gauge!

    Good write up of Louis CK film we won't (none / 0) (#146)
    by McBain on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 10:58:47 AM EST
    get to see (at least for now) by David Edelstein...

    I liked the movie, though, and not just as a comedy about a man and a daughter he can't control. It also gives you all kinds of insights into Louis's self-hatred, fear of women, and creepy conceptions of sex. There's enough in it for a whole psychiatric conference.

    I would have probably seen this film.  I thoroughly enjoyed his TV show, Louis, and most of his standup specials. He's a comedian who takes risks and often pokes fun of himself.  After he pays his price, I hope he comes back.


    It likely won't be for quite a while. (none / 0) (#150)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 03:12:43 PM EST
    What Louis C.K. admitted doing to those women was by any standard of measure a primal act of sexual intimidation and a gross indecency.

    Yeah, C.K.'s shtick was edgy, but only so long as his audience didn't have too much information. In retrospect, and most certainly in the wake of his admission, his comedy routines and TV show appear to have been far less risky than they were risqué and obliquely self-revelatory, and that renders it all really kind of creepy.

    So, personally speaking, I'm not sure if I can ever again watch Louis C.K. perform whilst maintaining a requisite open mind. To quote Don Henley and Glenn Frey of The Eagles:

    "It's like going to confession every time I hear you speak.
    You're making the most of your losing streak.
    Some call it sick, but I call it weak.
    You drag it around like a ball and chain.
    You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain.
    You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown,
    Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down.
    You b!tch about the present and blame it on the past;
    I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little a$$.
    Get over it."

    If C.K. is to ever attempt a career comeback in the future, he's going to have to make some serious changes, which means likely dispensing wholesale with the sort of material that originally garnered him critical notice and acclaim. To be sure, surmounting the obstacle of his now-very damaged public reputation is going to be one very tall order.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Wow (none / 0) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 04:13:47 PM EST
    Points for "whilst"

    Parent
    I remember something he said (2.00 / 1) (#156)
    by McBain on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 04:37:11 PM EST
    during one of his stand up specials a few years ago. He was talking about his success, fame and wealth.  He said something to the effect of, this will only last a few more years.

    On the scale of offenses, what CK admitted to is nowhere near as bad as what Harvey Weinstein has been accused of.  As for a comeback, perhaps we can look at two different cases of celebrities and sexual misconduct/indecency... Paul Reubens (Pee Wee Herman) and Marv Albert.  

    Parent

    Given that you were not the target ... (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 10:28:58 PM EST
    ... of the offense, you really ought to refrain from telling women how to properly gauge their personal reaction to the sight of a man who's determined to reveal to them his true shortcomings.

    Many years ago, my aunt and uncle owned a Philippine macaque named Jimbo, who was a pet. This monkey was a rather ornery little basterd, with a distinct dislike for adolescent boys, whom he viewed for some reason as a threat. Whenever he got angry with you, he'd stare at you with furrowed brow while masturbating furiously and growling.

    If Jimbo was doing that and he wasn't in his cage or on his chain (if he was in his tree in the back yard), you best back off from him because as I learned the hard way (no pun intended), masturbation is often a sign of extreme agitation and aggression in many male primates. I still have a two inch-long scar on my lower left leg where he sank his teeth into me 42 years ago. It took eight stiches to close the wound.

    Now, I'm not insinuating that Louis C.K. was about to lunge from his treetop perch and sink his teeth into these ladies' calves. What I am suggesting, though, is that as a primal act, masturbation in front of another person is not a harmless act of self-pleasure that might otherwise offend our personal sensibilities were we to witness it.

    Rather, given our own status as primates, it can be interpreted as a form of psychological violence, an act of intimidation and aggression by which the male asserts his dominance over another, and one which strongly suggests that the target should either submit or suffer the consequences.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    In putting the offenses on a scale, (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 07:13:39 AM EST
    you are leaving out the most important part of the equation: how the individual victims felt. When you are the one something happens to, there isn't much consolation in knowing, hey, it could have been worse.  All you know is how you feel, how it affected you.

    So, here are these women, who not only have had to struggle with what CK did to them, they also have had to struggle with trying to work in an industry in which powerful people have turned a blind eye and failed to hold this man accountable.

    And in the face of CK's admission that, yes, he did the things these women said he did (and who knows how many more women he did this to, who haven't come forward), your concern is for his career, how soon he can bounce back.  I don't see any interest in or concern for the women who were his victims.

    It's a little like, in the wake of someone being deliberately hit by a car, hoping it won't be too long before the driver gets his license back.

    Thanks for confirming what we all suspected your priorities are.

    Parent

    I don't know these women (none / 0) (#185)
    by McBain on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 02:23:45 PM EST
    I don't know how they feel.  I don't know Louis CK either but I do know his work.  I hope he comes back at some point.  If Reubens and Albert could make it back, so can he.  

    As for what he did... I don't think he committed a crime. I do think he took advantage of his fame and power but we're not talking about rape or murder.  This is a somewhat unusual case/situation and I think it's been blown out of proportion a bit.      

    Parent

    Clapper and Brennan (none / 0) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 04:00:32 PM EST
    On CNN this morning.

    both we're called "hacks" by Cheeto in his now famous Putin groveling.

    It's a interesting interview.

    Putin (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 07:14:35 PM EST
    says he didn't interfere. Alrighty then I guess we should just take his word for it and tell Mueller to pack up and go home.

    Almost an entire party has decided that Putin and pedophiles are okay in their book. Except for an old man with brain cancer who has no more F's to give.

    Parent

    A concerning interview, (none / 0) (#180)
    by KeysDan on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 11:53:02 AM EST
    what with Clapper calling Trump a peril to the country. Clapper and Brenna say, vis a vis Trump's curious siding with Putin, for "whatever reason," is naivete, ignorance or fear.  Naivete is surely not anything that can be attributed to the calculating Trump; and ignorance is a given, except for those things related to Trump's personal interest  However, fear is clear.  For the President of the USA to side with a hostile power v. the USA's own agencies, is difficult to fathom without going to human's primal emotion...fear.  And, the all he has is NOT fear itself, it is rooted in solid reasons to so fear.

    As for the nature and cause of the fear, we really do not need to wait for "Mueller and his team" to lay out the crimes, the political wrong doing is evident.  It is past time for NYTimes, for example, to criticize, ask Trump to read the Constitution, but to begin a concerted campaign that calls for Trump's resignation, stat.

    Parent

    Everytime I see this beautiful baby (none / 0) (#158)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 05:28:26 PM EST
    I find myself unable to talk about Voldermort.

    It's sacrilege

    But I just had my first Cremeux de Bourgogne from Wegman's. Wow! That's almost as good as a fresh baby ;)

    There are things (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 05:31:23 PM EST
    I miss


    Parent
    Wegman's can make you forget (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Anne on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 05:38:19 PM EST
    about buying the toilet paper and cat food and laundry detergent, as you while away the time wondering if you could live off cheese and olives and bread...I can never just run into Wegman's for a few things.

    Parent
    Already trying to come up with (none / 0) (#161)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 06:26:07 PM EST
    A get out Wegman's holiday strategy. Can't even imagine the pressures that will be applied then.

    Parent
    You must (none / 0) (#163)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 07:11:58 PM EST
    feel like you just went from heaven to hell in a few short months :).

    Parent
    Haha it sure isn't the Piggly Wiggly (none / 0) (#194)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 14, 2017 at 06:45:28 AM EST
    Don't go in there hungry (none / 0) (#164)
    by Yman on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 07:13:52 PM EST
    Luckily, the one here in Jersey is just far enough to keep it from being a "stop on the way home from the office", regular trip.  But I had a few, very expensive grocery trips in MD.

    Parent
    Around here. Maybe Alabama just taxes the hell out of liquor. I dunno. I never bought a bottle of gin before the Dubya administration, only after. But most liquor here is $5 - $10 cheaper.

    Cheese though, between Whole foods and Wegmans, the cheese will destroy your budget. I paid more for that cheese than a lobster costs here :)

    Parent

    You gotta try Wegmans (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 at 02:17:51 PM EST
    crabcakes. Probably the best non-restaurant crabcake you can get in Maryland.

    The closest Wegman's for me in Hunt Valley, MD (between York, PA and Baltimore). I'm guessing that's your Wegman's Anne. I stop on the way home from Baltimore often. Great deli, great baked goods. Great pumpernickel bagels. The cookies kill me.

    Parent

    Yes, Hunt Valley is my "home" store. (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 14, 2017 at 04:39:05 PM EST
    Haven't tried the crabcakes (with your recommendation, I think I will!), but in general, they have a great seafood department. I've been getting my shrimp there because they are fresh and aren't treated with chemicals.

    The cheeses and the olives...OMG.  I am such a sucker for that stuff.  With a good bread, it's a meal.

    I don't think I've never been there when the parking lot wasn't full - it's like they're giving something away...I consider it a great victory when I can snag a good parking space, lol.  

    Parent

    You are the devil Chuck (none / 0) (#202)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 15, 2017 at 06:59:26 AM EST
    Having (none / 0) (#200)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 14, 2017 at 03:34:07 PM EST
    moved from SC to GA and liquor being pretty darn cheap in GA it's probably that AL taxed the heck out of liquor. For some reason GA taxes the heck out of beer but SC does not. Go figure.

    Parent
    When I lived in NJ, the closest Wegman's (none / 0) (#184)
    by vml68 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 02:19:23 PM EST
    was 25 miles away but I still shopped there. On my frequent trips between NJ and SC and back, I would stop at the Wegman's in Woodbridge, VA to do my shopping on my way back home because the store is very conveniently located just off I-95.

    Parent
    A woman was surprised (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 06:45:01 PM EST
    to find Trump in her dogs ear

    Maher advises that if she lifts his tail you will find Don Jr.

    Pretty good show this week.

    Welp (none / 0) (#166)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 07:21:48 PM EST
    I think I'm going to be sick again. There is a new story about two Seal Team 6 members killing a green beret.

    DailyBeast (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 07:27:06 PM EST
    Former colleague of Roy Moore (none / 0) (#170)
    by Yman on Sun Nov 12, 2017 at 10:49:51 PM EST
    ... says it was common knowledge he had a thing for young girls:

    "It was common knowledge that Roy dated high school girls," said Jones. "Everyone we knew thought it was weird. We wondered why someone his age would hang out at high school football games and the mall ... but you really wouldn't say anything to someone like that."

    I am rethinking (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 08:52:09 AM EST
    My previous statements about dems "jumping into" this contest.  
    Howard Dean said some things that rang very true to me.
    He said the last thing democrats need to do is invade AL with armies of northern liberals knocking on doors.  I agree that's probably the last thing Jones needs.  
    Give him the money he needs and even then try to push it through the DSCC and the DNC.

    I know from talking to locals there is almost nothing voters resent more than a flood of outside money trying to influence their politics.

    Support him as we can and keep our distance and Jones will win this.

    I saw an interesting take on this race.
    That it is the story of two sets of four girls.   Moore's four girls and the four girls killed in the kkk church bombing who were killed by people Jones prosecuted.

    I always thought Moore's chances were over rated.
    I do now more than ever.

    One more thing.  The fact Brietbart has sent an army of people to AL to dig up dirt on these women (or wimin as the judge says) is going to backfire and blow up in their faces.

    Parent

    Yes, the best chance (none / 0) (#178)
    by KeysDan on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 11:39:06 AM EST
    for Jones is for a critical number of Alabama Republicans to stay home.  No need to help motivate them to vote, since the vote will be for the Republican, even if the GOP is the grand old pedophiles.

    Parent
    It all just makes my skin crawl... (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 09:59:12 AM EST
    as if it wasn't bad enough that Moore was trolling for underage girls - seemingly his only social activity - but the moms were complicit - or stupid.

    One girl's mother was okay with the "dating," because she thought her daughter was safe with him.  The mother of a 17-year old girl told her daughter she was "the luckiest girl in the world" to be going out with 34-year old Moore.

    Interestingly, at 38, and in keeping with his preference for young women, he married his wife, who was 24 at the time.

    Over the weekend, I started to wonder, where were the fathers?  Why is there no mention of them, at all?  Why have none of them come forward?

    And as repulsed as I am about these so-called "relationships," I am at a loss to understand the minds of people who would rather vote for a pedophile than take the chance a Democrat would win this special election.

    I guess I just don't understand people anymore.

    Parent

    I wonder whether Moore may have (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Peter G on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 10:35:41 PM EST
    consciously or unconsciously targeted girls who had no father in the home, perceiving they might be more vulnerable to his predation.

    Parent
    The reactionary Deep South (none / 0) (#176)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 10:21:42 AM EST
    doesn't mind cutting off their noses to spite their face, as long as they get to vent their spite. Thats the important thing.

    If modernizing iberal agitators keep telling them it's wrong to date 14-year-olds, they'll start dating 13-year-olds. And trying them as adults.

    Parent

    As to the mothers, this phenom is not limited (none / 0) (#177)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 11:01:39 AM EST
    to the Deep South.  In a case I prosecuted, a fifth grader was molested by her teacher.  Mom, who I suspected ingested cocaine, knew the teacher gave her daughter day-of-the week under pants. No dad in the home.  Teacher played that role in mom's eyes.

    Parent
    congratulations (none / 0) (#173)
    by pitachips on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 09:16:18 AM EST
    Beautiful baby. If I were born wealthy and money was no issue I'd want as many kids as possible (assuming wife was on board lol).

    ....oh man (none / 0) (#174)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 13, 2017 at 09:48:13 AM EST
    Trump torpedoes tax reform

    They have bent over backwards to keep it out if "the tax plan".  The reason is to keep those who bailed on healthcare repeal which is what it effectively is.

    That slapping sound you hear is a universal republican FACEPALM.

    Awsum