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Donald Trump to Give Immigration Speech

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2016
Posted on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 11:48:12 AM EST
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Today is Donald Trump's impulsive last-minute trip to Mexico, to be followed by an immigration speech.

Here's a place to laugh at discuss it.

Mexicans in Mexico are not happy their President is meeting with Trump.

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    Donald Trump to Give Immigration Speech | 199 comments (199 topical)

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    Pass the popcorn (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 11:59:26 AM EST
    Josh Marshall's thoughts in the impending sh**show.

    Hard to see how Trump thinks he can gain from this, beyond the usual endorphin rush that comes with the fulfillment of his impulses.

    Bob Costa (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 12:11:47 PM EST
    Says he will double down on extremism.  Looking forward to the reports of his Mecico visit.

    Parent
    There has also been (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 12:43:52 PM EST
    Much speculation about what McCain would do if he does indeed double down.   Some expect McCain, now that the primary is over and he has his own problems in AZ, to find his spine if this happens

    Parent
    Have a different take. (none / 0) (#4)
    by KeysDan on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 12:44:37 PM EST
    Ordinarily, it would be hard not to find everything going wrong--impulsive, no security, no policies, no plans. But, Trump is banking on the media to overlook the diplomatic mess and find its love.

    And, everything is already going wrong for Trump,starting with Trump. Another Heil Mary.

     If the unpopular President Pena stands up to, or humiliates, Trump, or if Trump just leaves empty-handed, he will be in a better position to soften (or a more manly term to Trump's satisfaction) his mass round-up and 11 million deportation scheme. His alt right base will be mollified by his "letting the Mexicans have it, sans political correctness" and, he has a chance at reclaiming some of the Republican suburbanites. A classic Trump plan to scam.

    If Trump gets an inch from Pena, he will, of course, take it a mile. The inch can be but a handshake and an agreement to disagree. Then comes the Breitbart spin machine--his great negotiating skills, his leadership ad nauseum.

    The best plan I have heard about Trump's visit to Mexico, is to, quickly, build that wall.

    Parent

    Except that Trump did not invite (none / 0) (#7)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 03:40:10 PM EST
    the press to come along, so they are already predisposed to hate this.

    Parent
    Nicolle Wallace (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 03:43:00 PM EST
    Was absolutely WOWED by the marble wall and plaque they were standing in front of.

    No, really.  She actually said that seeing Trump "I'm front of that wall" would change Americans view of Trump.

    I don't know if I should laugh or cry in case she might be right.

    Parent

    Looking forward to evening TV (none / 0) (#9)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 04:05:08 PM EST
    Sigh. Maybe the excitement at his rallies has fallen off and he has to have something new to get jazzed about.

    So now the wall is going to be marble?

    Parent

    I think since the Nieto tweet (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 07:52:57 PM EST
    He's crapping himself :) Or he's going to go all trash on Mexico like we've never seen. He's looking weak and played. Can he maintain a presidential demeanor or is he going to melt into a pool of seething orange spew?

    Parent
    She might be right (none / 0) (#11)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 04:44:22 PM EST
    NY Times
    Mr. Trump reached out to the Mexican president and people.

    Mr. Trump, first reading slowly from a statement and then speaking more freely in response to a question, said he now considered Mr. Peña Nieto a friend and heaped praise on Americans of Mexican descent. Mexican-Americans, Mr. Trump said, were "beyond reproach" and "spectacular, hard-working people."

    In a subdued joint appearance before the press in Mexico City, the two men described the meeting as warm, despite significant disagreements on issues of trade and immigration.

    The Reality show continues, it appears that Trump has set the bar so low in the past year, a appearance like today's raises his stature, only because he didn't act like a idiot.

    I have known some sandbaggers in bowling, but Trump has taken sandbagging to new heights

    Parent

    That impression may change shortly, ... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 07:16:19 PM EST
    ... now that President Peña Nieto has since felt compelled to call out Trump as a liar, contradicting the candidate's claim to the media that his proposal to build a wall was not discussed.

    Parent
    Not such a good strategist :) (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 07:48:45 PM EST
    Not winning! Donald Trump talked utter garbage about Mexicans, then in order to show he can be "Presidential" goes to Mexico to meet with its leader who is only garnering 20% in the polls and could use a boost.

    It's like shooting fish in a barrel for Nieto. He's waiting patiently for Trump to hit the Twit and start spewing racism :)

    Well played Nieto, well played.


    Parent

    President Peña Nieto's tweet ... (none / 0) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 08:15:26 PM EST
    ... is currently the lead story on the L.A. Times website.

    Parent
    No American flag? (none / 0) (#16)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 07:07:31 PM EST
    What kind of American pol does not stand in front of an american flag when he travels?

    If he can't make them pay for a flag, I doubt they'll pay for a wall.

    Parent

    Forgot to add the snark tag. (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 07:23:09 PM EST
    But really, you know if Hillary forgot to get a flag on the stage we'd hear about it for a week.

    Parent
    Not representing US (none / 0) (#20)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 07:49:04 PM EST
    so no flag?

    Just a private citizen....

    Parent

    You wanted to see a flag? (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 08:19:57 PM EST
    Well, my pretty, I got your Trump flag for you, right here!

    ;-D

    Parent

    Romney had a flag.... I don't really (none / 0) (#22)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 07:59:43 PM EST
    care on principle, just as an aspect of planning...or rather not planning...

    Parent
    Obviously... (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by desertswine on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 02:00:26 PM EST
    We're not sending Mexico our best people.

    Oh, lord. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 08:03:49 PM EST
    Trump already has messed all over himself by saying that he and EPN did not discuss the wall. Did he think he was going to get away with making that kind of statement? Apparently so. Trump is the perfect example of why CEOs should never run for president. No one ever questions what they do. Everyone just has to follow orders.

    He really does come across as someone who (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 08:27:07 PM EST
    has never had to fix his own mistakes, doesn't he? He just says stuff, and underlings either do it or not, and pick up whatever pieces are left.I doubt he even 'runs' his own so called businesses.

    Parent
    Jose Diaz Balart (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 08:35:15 PM EST
    Just said he would not be surprised if video of that meeting showed up on Mexican TV because it has a very cozy relationship with the president and it might be how he responds to the Trump lie about the wall.

    If it show up there it will show up here.

    Parent

    I honestly don't know which is creepier (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 09:02:07 PM EST
    What he is saying (bashing the global warming myth? WTF) or the crowds reaction to it.

    This is seriously disturbing.   And not in a funny way.  Not at all.

    I didn't last 2 minutes into it (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 09:06:47 PM EST
    He just disgusts me.

    Parent
    Trump and his adoring crowds ... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 09:08:48 PM EST
    ... are collectively channeling Leni Riefenstahl's "Triumph Des Willens" tonight.

    Parent
    It sounds like (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 09:09:58 PM EST
    The freakin Roman coliseum

    Parent
    Trump's immigration policy (5.00 / 6) (#38)
    by KeysDan on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 10:59:23 PM EST
    was over an hour's worth of hate speech.  In my opinion, there was no softening.  There was a doubling down of his signature demagoguery to quench the fires among his base; the difference was in the wording---all who are here "illegally" will be deported.  Then the speech focused on those who committed crimes, any crimes. He weaseled on the deportation (the media does not like the word he said, but whatever, they will be gone)of 11 million by saying the government does not know if it is 11 or 3 million, people just say 11 million (like he does). And, no catch and release, If we catch, we release them far from border, transporting them back home. It was not stated how, by boxcar, chartered Trump Air, or bus.  No mention of costs.

    The speech was riddled with contradictions, we have pride in our country, later, we have to be proud of our country again; we can't be sure of the 11 million, but he knows with precision in other instances,  have 2 million who are criminals in jail, etc. And, we will not take refugees from Syria or Libya because we do not know where they are from. We will need to test them for subscription to American values, e.g. are they Muslims  who admit to being extreme, and would do revenge killngs of women or other bad things. If they fess up, they are not let in.

    Trump does have a good sense of his audience. When they started to get bored or restless, he went off the teleprompter and added some raw meat: Hillary.

     That would have brought them to their feet, but most were already standing.  But, Trump went too far: in saying that he would include that new ICE squad and they would deport without mercy, he said that maybe they could deport Hillary.

    I am sure that in hate school you are taught to construct your speeches without much levity. In this case, the deportation of a political opponent is no joke.  It added to the bombastic, nativistic and fascistic tone of the speech, the scary thought of deportation of anyone, citizens included. No one may be safe.

    Whatever Trump achieved in his visit to Mexico, and his positioning in front of a marble wall, side by side with the president of a foreign country, was subsequently lost (a) by either Pena or Trump or both becoming a laughingstock, and (b) by the il Duce tone of the speech. The Brietbart spin machine will have it as a great day for Trump, but, it was a terrible day for the country.

    NYTimes editorial, Friday, September 2,2016: (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 09:59:12 AM EST
     Trump, Deporter in Waiting: "Don't be confused by the days of mixed messaging from Donald Trump's campaign....Speaking on Wednesday in Phoenix...Mr. Trump did not retreat from or in any way soften his promise to make 11 million unauthorized immigrants targets for deportation.

     ....It was a mass-deportation speech, even if he avoided that phrase.  Its intent was hard to miss."

    ..." Leave aside the bit about the "impenetrable wall, an applause line for an engineering fiction. To understand what's so appalling and frightening about Mr. Trump, focus instead on some things he could actually try to do.."

    "The entire speech, in fact, imagines that government at all levels will be used to hunt down and remove immigrants from their homes, families and jobs....a world of lockups and surveillance and fugitive hunting squads, a vast system of indiscriminate catch-and-punish that works as hard to catch hotel maids and landscapers as it does gang members and terrorists."

     "And, this applies not just to immigrants, but to everyone who could be mistaken for one."

    ......."If you saw Mr. Trump's speech, and you care about the country and values of tolerance and human rights and weren't disgusted, you were either fooled, or not paying attention."

    Parent

    Again (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 05:56:43 AM EST
    you are probably going to agree with Jennifer Rubin

    And I agree. These pundits who are attempting to normalize this kind of stuff need to STFU.

    out-of-work.. (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 03:11:40 PM EST


    i'm sorry {{ hugs }} (none / 0) (#116)
    by linea on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 10:07:27 PM EST


    Parent
    A question (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 07:06:24 PM EST
    We have millions of undocumented people in the country.

    What is your plan for solving that problem??

    why is this a problem (none / 0) (#83)
    by linea on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 08:49:31 PM EST
    that needs solving? rush limbaugh has his underpaid housekeeper who picks up his illegal street drugs, kelly osbourne gets her toilets cleaned for cheap, and the wages of laborers are depressed. pretty sure that was the plan. why would the dems or the repubs want to mess with the plan when it's going so well?

    💥

    Parent

    Well, sarcasm becomes you. (none / 0) (#84)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 09:01:04 PM EST
    And you are quite right.

    We should remember that the Repubs went for "reform" in 2006 and was soundly shouted down by the base because it was just amnesty.

    And the base stayed home allowing the Demos to get control of both Houses of Congress.

    Parent

    Did "the base" stay home.. (none / 0) (#145)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 01:15:08 PM EST
    or did 2/3s of them simply expire in their Lazy Boys while watching HeeHaw reruns, or die in collapsed lawn chair accidents and then immediately get Raptured up?

    Parent
    A weed we have seen before (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 09:08:50 PM EST
    Fascinating little Maddow essay on the speech, Know Nohings, Whigs, and the fragility of the 2 party system.  Listen.  It was last night late.  I had not seen it until it was replayed in the show tonight.

    LINK

    Where were you all (1.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Redbrow on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 11:29:29 PM EST
    Back in 2006 when Hillary was saying the very same thing regarding illegal immigrants as Trump?

    She was all for enforcing immigration law, deporting criminals, building a wall and even reported that the Mexican  government wa sending them.

    There was no faux outrage and pearl cutching back then. Nobody called her "hitler kkk racist" then.

    so why now?

    We were laughing (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 06:52:45 AM EST
    Back in 2006 when Hillary was saying the very same thing regarding illegal immigrants as Trump?

    ... at the people making such obvious lies.  ALL candidates are for enforcing immigration laws and deporting undocumented immigrants who have committed crimes.  Most (including most Democrats) have supported legislation which included building fences, depending on the specifics of the legislation.

    But please feel free to point out where she called Mexican immigrants drug dealers and rapists - then said they would probably be car thieves, proposed banning all members of a specific religion from entering the US, attacked the parents of a dead US soldier because of their religion, or where she made the laughable/insulting claim that Mexico would pay for his wall.

    Parent

    because (1.00 / 1) (#125)
    by linea on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 11:49:36 PM EST
    that was never her real beliefs and everyone knows she was just pandering for votes?

    Parent
    Or because that claim is a lie? (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 06:43:04 AM EST
    ALL candidates (including Obama) are for enforcing immigration laws and deporting undocumented immigrants who have committed crimes, and most (including most Democrats) have favored specific pieces of legislation for using fences to help secure the border.

    Next.

    Parent

    So (none / 0) (#134)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 05:39:38 AM EST
    Which ones are her real beliefs?

    Has she just recently found "God"

    That is just one of the conundrums facing the Bernista's

    This is a change election, Madame Sec is more of the same. She is just so lucky to have run into a candidate like Trump.

    The Donald has 2 months to convince the populace he will not blow up the world, if he does that, this will be very very closer, much closer than it ought to be.

    Although Madame Sec and her crew have been measuring the drapes recently

    http://tinyurl.com/jleo7ly

    Revealing a level of confidence Clinton's inner circle has been eager to squash for weeks, outside advisers have now identified victories in Pennsylvania and New Hampshire as the path of least resistance, delivering for the Democratic nominee more than the 270 electoral votes needed to take the White House. And they are projecting increased confidence about her chances in Republican-leaning North Carolina, a state that could prove as critical as Ohio or Pennsylvania.


    Parent
    "mexican government's policies are PUSHING (none / 0) (#123)
    by Redbrow on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 11:37:44 PM EST
    migration north!"

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezaw-g6TIQI

    Parent

    Wingbats are so cute when they're hysterical. (none / 0) (#131)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 03:42:44 AM EST
    We're obviously doing it just to pi$$ you off, so we can watch your heads explode.

    Parent
    Why Is President Seeing Trump?? (none / 0) (#6)
    by NycNate on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 03:29:05 PM EST
    Why is the Mexican governor meeting him?  Why is it being reported that Vicente Fox invited Trump in May?  Why are all these people taking this clown seriously?  

    Vicente Fox says that he invited Trump to (none / 0) (#10)
    by vml68 on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 04:31:06 PM EST
    come to Mexico to apologize to the Mexican people.

    Parent
    Based solely on the description (none / 0) (#12)
    by Peter G on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 05:24:51 PM EST
    at #11 above, it sounds like Tr*mp in fact retracted and apologized, to the maximum extent he is capable of. Must have been very painful and humiliating for him.

    Parent
    With all due respect to the NYTimes (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 05:53:52 PM EST
    I don't think so.  If you watched it, I did, there was a lot to see.  The Mexican presidents face for one.  There were times when he looked like he could not believe what he was hearing.

    He also made the comment I commented on in real time about "agreeing with Trump" that nafta was good for both countries.

    I don't doubt Trump said or implied that but if you know anything about Trump you know he certainly does not believe that.

    They are also saying the president was "taken aback" by Trump starting to take questions when it was agreed they would not do that.

    I would love to have been a Spanish speaking fly on the wall to hear what he had to say when it was over.

    Also, by all accounts, Trump is going to double down hard on all the xenophobic stuff in his speech tonight.

    It's likely the presidents approval numbers will go from the low 20s to the low teens in the near future.

    Parent

    Trump: we did not discuss who would pay (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 06:33:47 PM EST
    Pina Nieto:  I told him we were not paying for the wall


    Peña Nieto told Trump Mexico would not pay for border wall

    Mexican president Enrique Peña Nieto told Donald Trump during their private meeting today that Mexico would not pay for Trump's proposed 2,000-mile barrier along the US-Mexico border, according to his Twitter feed.

    Translation: "At the beginning of the conversation with Donald Trump I made it clear that Mexico will not pay for the wall."

    That's from the guardian


    Parent

    This is petty, but what's with the ducktail (none / 0) (#15)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 07:04:35 PM EST
    hairdo? Will see if he gets a trim before the speech tonight.

    I almost wish that the networks ... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 09:24:14 PM EST
    ... would do the right thing, and pull the plug on this orgiastic hatefest. Then again, perhaps the American people need to see this unfiltered, in order to realize what Trump and his people are really all about.

    This is a true "What The Fck?" moment we're watching.

    It truly is (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 09:29:17 PM EST
    I was just thinking a similar thing.  

    How is THIS going over with those college educated surburban white women?

    Not well I think.

    Parent

    My younger daughter just left the room ... (none / 0) (#34)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 09:47:59 PM EST
    ... with tears in her eyes, she's so upset. She's Mexican-American, but born and raised out here in a multi-cultural environment. At only 21 years old, I think this is the very first time she's ever come face to face with this sort of unmitigated racism and hate from white people.

    Parent
    I'm sorry (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 10:10:31 PM EST
    Awful thing to hear.  

    Parent
    I'm sure my nephews feel the same way (none / 0) (#41)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 08:34:55 AM EST
    They are 23 and 18, their mother is 2nd generation in the US, with huge family in Mexico. They go there every summer.

    I hope it is the first time they have seen it this raw anyway. They are growing up in Orange Co, Ca, where there is still plenty of racism, or at least there was when I lived there, but at least the politicians were not this crude about it.

    Parent

    There is starting to be (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 09:02:16 AM EST
    A lot of talk about the effect all this is having on the population at large.  Lots of reports of children encouraged by the political "discourse" to call other kids wetbacks and other things like telling then they are "going to be sent home".  This is happening a lot.  There was an incident of with signs of "go home" and "build the wall" at a sports event with a predominately Hispanic school.

    This my really be the worst part of all of this.

    Parent

    This is from the SPLC (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 09:09:36 AM EST

    producing an alarming level of fear and anxiety among children of color and inflaming racial and ethnic tensions in the classroom. Many students worry about being deported.

    Other students have been emboldened by the divisive, often juvenile rhetoric in the campaign. Teachers have noted an increase in bullying, harassment and intimidation of students whose races, religions or nationalities have been the verbal targets of candidates on the campaign trail.

    Educators are perplexed and conflicted about what to do. They report being stymied by the need to remain nonpartisan but disturbed by the anxiety in their classrooms and the lessons that children may be absorbing from this campaign.

    Two responses from teachers illustrate their dilemma. A teacher in Arlington, Virginia, says, "I try to not bring it up since it is so stressful for my students." Another, in Indianapolis, Indiana, says, "I am at a point where I'm going to take a stand even if it costs me my position."

    LINK

    Parent

    That is so horrible (none / 0) (#48)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 10:27:25 AM EST
    Are teachers advocating acceptance and tolerance now seen as taking a political stand?

    Parent
    I hope this type of incident (none / 0) (#61)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 03:58:37 PM EST
    is the subject of the next Hillary ad.

    Parent
    That is why (none / 0) (#45)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 09:09:24 AM EST
    the reaction of Donald's daughter is very telling and sad.  

    The bigoted clown is getting too close to the Presidency.  Even if he loses, his brand of hate and bigotry will continue.  If he wins, he would be the worst possible monster, having been validated.

    Parent

    Truly frightening speech (none / 0) (#42)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 08:59:54 AM EST
    Josh at TPM has thrown Godwin's law aside and is talking Hitler....the wild man speech right.  Right after the diplomatic like appearance in Mexico....like Hitler at Munich.

    Parent
    Ask Kellyanne (none / 0) (#36)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 31, 2016 at 10:24:42 PM EST
    Wonder what she will have to say about this. Can even she attempt a positive spin?

    Parent
    Just some thoughts from the unloyal (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 08:32:51 AM EST
    opposition.

    I loved your comments made before the speech. Reminded me of friends in school who would write a book review based on what they thought was in the book.

    You wanted details. He gave you details.

    KeysDan:

    the scary thought of deportation of anyone, citizens included. No one may be safe.

    Non citizens? Deporting non citizens is scary?

    KeysDan:

    are they Muslims  who admit to being extreme, and would do revenge killngs of women or other bad things. If they fess up, they are not let in.  

    Actually, according to Pew, 21% say that support for extremism is already here

    A significant minority (21%) of Muslim Americans say there is a great deal (6%) or a fair amount (15%) of support for extremism in the Muslim American community.

    Donald, I think your daughter leaving the room in tears shows the gulf between the Left and the Right. Trump said a lot of nice things about Mexican-Americans. A term, BTW, I dislike. You are either an American or you're not. Using such terms leads to Balkanization of America. See Europe's problems.

    He also identified some specific problems. Until we can agree that these are problems we will never agree on solutions.

    Jim, you do not know (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 09:06:32 AM EST
    much about Latin America.  You once said here you visited Latin American when you went to the Bahamas.

    And, you have said the Latin American culture is inferior--because people are immigrating here.  Well, if you use immigration as the standard for judging inferior cultures, immigration from Mexico has actually been negative recently....people are leaving here for there.  So, does that mean American culture is now inferior?

    And, closer to home,  what about all those small towns in what you fall flyover American that are losing population?  The youth flee for the Coasts and big cities.  Inferior culture.

    And, in case you missed it, it was Trump's wild red faced speech that caused the grief.  

    Parent

    Her tears show the gulf between left and right? (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 01:30:01 PM EST
    Uh, no. Trump's speech was vile hate speech, period. It was calculated to rile his base of ignorant and undereducated white voters by pandering to their absolute worst fears and instincts about "The Others." You obviously know nothing about Mexican-Americans or other Latinos. In fact, Trump's speech was so bad that members of his Hispanic advisory board are resigning en masse this morning because of it.

    What you and others similarly closed-minded white people don't ever seem to understand about bigotry, is that what truly matters is NOT your repeated insistence that you and Trump, et al., are not being racist and offensive but rather, how your now-incendiary rhetoric is being perceived by people other than your own lily-white selves -- most especially by your intended targets, which in this case happens to be our country's greater Latino community.

    Your Republican Party is not only flipping off our country's most rapidly growing demographic with its now-naked appeals to white bigotry and prejudice, it's incurring Latinos' undying enmity for the balance of our lifetimes.

    :(

    Parent

    I share your daughter's tears (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 04:02:22 PM EST
    as someone who doesn't recognize the hate speech as America. My tears are also tears of anger that the rank hate and anger can pollute all the good about our nation.

    Parent
    You and other Leftie's call it hate speech when (none / 0) (#82)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 07:50:21 PM EST
    the problems are pointed out.

    That's the gulf.

    What you want is amnesty and open borders. That's what "white voters" object to.

    When I posit leaving every non criminal here, with a green card IF we close the borders that is not good enough for you.

    Face it. It's all politics to you. You want to use the HL community for votes. You don't care about improving the lives of HL's.

    If you wanted to help you would want to close the borders thus causing a shortage of HL workers allowing them to demand more pay and better working conditions. You know, what unions use to do. And since I watched my father work to get a union into where he worked and saw the raise he got when the union came in I have first hand knowledge of the economic advantages that a union can bring.

    Parent

    You don't live anywhere near either border, Jim. (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 11:25:46 PM EST
    Nor do you likely live around Latinos, for the simple reason that they would probably not want to live around you.

    So, what's it to you, really? Is your sense of white privilege really so violated, that you regularly denigrate the humanity of the people who pick your vegetables and fruit, and do lots of other manual labor that most Americans consider beneath them?

    I think I'll be polite, and say that you're just trolling.

    Parent

    People like (none / 0) (#89)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 06:10:37 AM EST
    Jim are afraid that there's going to be a taco truck on every corner. They are afraid that people in the grocery store who speak Spanish are talking about them and they can't understand what they are saying. They are paranoid. Instead of as you and I seeing it as they enrich our culture people like Jim see it as "sullying" our "culture".

    Parent
    Check your email (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 09:17:53 AM EST


    Parent
    Sorry (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 09:18:39 AM EST
    That was meant for the open

    Parent
    Got it (none / 0) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 09:45:30 AM EST
    and replied.

    Parent
    Instead of being nasty (none / 0) (#97)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 10:13:24 AM EST
    why don't you review my plan to solve the problem and tell me why you disagree?

    I mean, my plan gives them green cards and unlike current law, no deportation for non criminals.

    Plus, it allows them to apply for citizenship, although their place in line would be behind all those who have previously applied.

    What additional benefits do you want?

    Parent

    I'm through talking with you on this matter. (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 12:47:43 PM EST
    Your plan means nothing, because you're not in any position to see it enacted and your fellow Republicans aren't likely to care for it anyway. We'll see what happens in November.

    Parent
    Neither of us are (none / 0) (#104)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 01:38:16 PM EST
    in any position to do anything regarding the plan.

    All I have done is expose your serving position that hurts ULH's while sanctimoniously claiming you want the best for them.

    I again challenge you.

    What is wrong with my plan??

    Parent

    Okay. Considering the source, ... (none / 0) (#117)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 10:30:50 PM EST
    ... I find it to be completely disingenuous. And that's where your past nasty comments about Latinos -- or for that matter, anyone whom you perceive as foreign or different -- catch up to you. You can swear to the Good Lord above that you're now being sincere, and I'm afraid that only the Good Lord above will believe you.

    I'm done here. Adios.

    Parent

    What nasty comments? (none / 0) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 11:08:59 AM EST
    You are making things up.

    You may done but your positions harm ULH's. You cannot make things up and then run off. Your "tail" follows you.

    Parent

    You know, I could live on the moon (none / 0) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 09:29:02 AM EST
    and the hurtful actions taken by the Left would still exist.

    Let's review. My plan would require the border to be closed and undocumented LH's (ULH)in the country to receive Green Cards subject to screening for criminal charges.

    I have to wonder. Why would you disagree with that? Unlike current law no non criminal would be deported.

    Why the insults? So, you and I can disagree over where the problems in Mexico and south came from...I say it is the legacy of southern European settlers....You haven't addressed why we have this flood of ULH's.

    And you can lecture, whine and attack, complete with false claims, all you want but the facts are simple. Millions of people have left their homes and familes to come to the US.

    People do not do that unless there are real problems.

    So I say, close the border. Let Mexico, and these other people exporters, solve their problems.

    Now, what does a closed border do?

    It stops the influx of new labor.

    What does having a Green Card do?

    It makes the holder "legal." The employer can't turn him in to ICE. IOW it enables the prospective employee and current employees to negotiate pay and working conditions. Gee...what a deal...we need a name for that... I think I'll call it Labor Unions.......

    But notice one thing. It is all based on a shortage of labor. You could open the borders and issue Green Cards as the ULH's come through and all you would be doing is providing more cheap labor.

    You can't negotiate pay when there are people lined up behind you anxious to get a job....any job at any wage...

    Donald, I spent the last 20 plus years of my career in high ticket complex system sales. I was successful because I always looked for the "why." What was the real reason they wanted to do "something."  Notice the word "real."

    And your, and many like you, real reason is that you want votes and you believe that open borders and citizenship via edict will give you votes.

    You slur me yet I have demonstrated that I care for the ULH's in the country. I want them to have a better life. You don't give a flip about them as long as you get what you want.

    They deserve more than being the "white man's" maids, yard "boys," meat packers, roofers and all the other dead end low paying no security jobs your desires consigns them to.

    Parent

    "Why the insults"? (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 09:59:54 AM EST
    Seriously???  All you do is make up bull$hit and pretend to speak for others by putting (false) words in their mouths, then you want to complain when it's turned around on you???

    That's funny.

    Parent

    OK, I give up - what is an LH? (none / 0) (#99)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 11:36:20 AM EST
    Your plan may as well be

    #1 seal the border
    #2 give everyone 10 million dollars.

    because you will never be satisfied that #1 is done, and will use that as an excuse not to do anything else. So no matter what your plan is, it will falter on the same rocky shoals as the plans proposed in congress in the last few years - by the GOP, no less.

    Parent

    Undocumented Latinos Hispanics (none / 0) (#100)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 12:29:10 PM EST
    As in NA - Native Americans.

    And I can't prove that I would and you can't prove that I won't.

    And this is the reason for the distrust.

    As the nation's attention turns back to the fractured debate over immigration, it might be helpful to remember that in 1986, Ronald Reagan signed a sweeping immigration reform bill into law. It was sold as a crackdown: There would be tighter security at the Mexican border, and employers would face strict penalties for hiring undocumented workers.

    But the bill also made any immigrant who'd entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty -- a word not usually associated with the father of modern conservatism.

    And the crackdown didn't happen. The numbers of ULH's just kept increasing

    That doomed the 2006 push by Bush.

    And the Left, with their criticism of Trump's plan, is just confirming what people have seen in the past.

    And somewhere in Trump's speech he made it plain that the average ULH would not be bothered until after the criminals are gone, after the laws are changed, after sanctuary cities are closed and after border is closed.

    Parent

    Gee, you would almost get the impression (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 06:59:23 PM EST
    that no one with a clue and real power really thinks a relatively open border with the lands of the "ULH" is a problem.

    Are there un-L H's? Or un-H L's? I'll beat linea to the question. Your terms confuse me.

    Parent

    love you! (none / 0) (#114)
    by linea on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 09:09:18 PM EST


    Parent
    The waters are closing around you, Jim (none / 0) (#101)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 12:38:49 PM EST
    my advice is to do what conservative men tell rape victims to do: lay back and enjoy it.

    Parent
    I see that you (none / 0) (#103)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 01:34:16 PM EST
    no response.

    Parent
    Thinking of Caesar Chavez.. (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 02:15:53 PM EST
    someone you undoubtedly had no use for, I think that "LHs" are more likely to inject life into the unionization movement than workers from blood-red states who've been turned into cowering scabs by your union-hating conservative masters.

    You "righties" have done a marvelous, thorough-going job convincing workers in "Right To Work" states that God wants them to be poor because they weren't born rich and never knew how to get an MBA or make it as a talk radio host or televangelist.

    Parent

    "undoubtedly had no use for" (none / 0) (#141)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 12:12:33 PM EST
    Again you make a false claim with no proof.

    I posted this in 12/06.

    plumberboy, the meat packing industry used to be unionized and paid excellent wagdes. The availability of illegal aliens has destroyed these jobs and crippled the unions. In the meantime, meat prices have not come down and the rancher/farmer prices have not gone up.

    Who benefits? The employer, who should also be arrested. Put a few plant mangers and BOD members in jail and they'll start policing themselvds.

    There we see ULH's used to break a union.

    ULH's have the problem of being undocumented and subject, under current law, to deportation.

    So the company hires them, breaks the union and the uses ICE to "bust some kneecaps and keep'em in line."

    My plan removes that.

    Outside of what has become a fetish of hatred by you, why do you oppose my plan to close the border and give the ULH's who pass a screening for criminal charges a Green Card????

    You cannot negotiate anything when the other person can simply walk away knowing that others will give them what they want.

    I also wrote this in 2014.

    Wages will be effected because there will continue to be a source of cheap labor.

    Working conditions won't improve when someone complains because s/he will just be fired and replaced with someone willing to work for less and in bad conditions.

    The key is to shut off the new supply while absorbing those here. Obama isn't interested in that. He just wants to play political games.

    The Chamber of Commerce will support him for their reasons. The Left will support him for their reasons,

    So you see my position is not new.

    I doubt you have ever been actually involved, or had personal experience, with what actually goes on when unions try to organize.

    I have. I watched my father work to do that and I watched the group succeed and I saw the results in better pay and and benefits.

    And what is defensible is that the unions, as a group, support the Democratic party which is doing things that is flat out anti labor.


    Parent

    Funny.. (none / 0) (#142)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 12:24:42 PM EST
    you never had this problem with unions being broken when you were defending the "Right To Work" laws pushed by your union-busting conservative friends..

    No, what really has your panties in a wad is irreversible Change, shifting demographics, and the fact that the Old White Male fantasy of returning to 1962 is as realistic as the quest to find the Lost City of El Dorado.

    Parent

    Maybe it's for the unions (none / 0) (#144)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 12:42:03 PM EST
    to decide who's looking out for them; just as it's up to "ULHs" and "on the reservation" AAs..

    I mean, I know you and Glenn Beck have more intimate knowledge of the union worker, LH, and AA experience than even they do, but I guess they're just going to have to figure it all out for themselves, eh?

    Parent

    Please show us my attack on unions for (none / 0) (#155)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 07:32:48 PM EST
    private companies.

    The facts are that you can't. You just continue to make things up.

    Parent

    I know your by-the-numbers schtick (none / 0) (#165)
    by jondee on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 12:40:50 PM EST
    better than you do, Jim.

    Including the "making things up" balderdash you say when candor fails you (once again)

    You momenta ride wedge issues the way big city hooked get in and out of taxicabs.

    Parent

    I know your by-the-numbers schtick (none / 0) (#166)
    by jondee on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 01:03:53 PM EST
    better than you do, Jim.

    Including the "making things up" balderdash you say when candor fails you (once again)

    You ride situational wedge issues the way big city hookers get in and out of taxicabs.

    And you and I both know that on November 9th you'll forget all about your faux-concern for the tribulations of the American working man and go back to parroting verbatim whatever union-busting swill the hard-right is flogging.

    Parent

    Hmmm, Sometimes not... (none / 0) (#158)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 08:10:09 PM EST
    Big Labor's McDonald's Defense
    The SEIU tries a novel idea to oppose unions for its own workers.

    Some news is an obligation to report, but sometimes it's a real pleasure. The latter is the Service Employees International Union's use of the McDonald's defense to oppose unionizing its own workers.

    http://tinyurl.com/hw7n8mu
    http://tinyurl.com/jafge2v

    When Los Angeles City Council members voted two years ago to give hotel workers a raise, Bill Martinez was the type of worker they said they wanted to help.

    He soon found out he wouldn't be getting a raise after all. Under an obscure provision of the city's wage hike, unionized hotels were granted an exemption allowing them to pay their employees less. The result is that Martinez, who pays $56.50 every month for membership in the hotel workers union Unite Here, now makes less than those doing the same job in non-union workplaces.

    Sometimes the unions look after themselves, and not the workers. They sell out the workers trying to get more bodies in the union, more union dues.

    Parent

    "ULH" (none / 0) (#149)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 01:57:32 PM EST
    Last I heard, they were people.

    Parent
    So are NA's (none / 0) (#156)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 07:35:30 PM EST
    But just like NA is a quick and easy way to say Native American, ULH is a quick and easy way to say undocumented latinos/hispanics.

    Go find yourself a safe place if that offends you.

    Parent

    Being against (none / 0) (#159)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 09:33:52 PM EST
    political correctness has become a cover for indulging in dehumanizing others.

    If you do not like being called out for your comments, you can find another place.

    Parent

    I see that you have no (none / 0) (#162)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 08:58:22 AM EST
    way to refute my points and how I would actually institutes policies to help ULH's.

    So you play the racist card.

    Again.

    Tell us what is wrong with my plan or just admit that you want the ULH's to come into the country, give them citizenship and trust that they will vote Democratic no matter how badly they are treated by employers and how they depress wages,

    Sad. Very sad.

    Parent

    I support the bipartisan (none / 0) (#168)
    by MKS on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 03:34:36 PM EST
    bill that passed the Senate and includes a pathway to citizenship.

    You support a Presidential candidate who is a racist and a bigot and who has said he wants to deport all 11 million undocumented.  

    Your convoluted, personal policy preference does not matter.  You support the bigot.

       

    Parent

    Pooey (none / 0) (#169)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 03:53:32 PM EST
    You have no reason to call Trump a bigot.

    I challenge you to provide some proof.

    Oh wait... David Duke says he supports him.

    lol

    Deporting all the ULH's is neither feasible nor practical. Indeed, in his speech he said that after we had closed the borders, got rid of the criminals and closed sanctuary cities we would look at those who have been here for years.

    Of course since you didn't watch the speech you have no idea what he said. Instead you depend on what the press and Left Wing blogs tell you.

    Trump has nailed the problems and exposed how the elites of both parties have ran the country into the ground. He wants to stop importation of Muslims "refugees" until we can properly vet them.

    The Senate bill didn't close the border.

    In '86 Reagan provided citizenship to millions of ULH's based on the promise of the Democrat congress that the border would be closed.

    Never happened and no bill that doesn't first close the border will pass as long as the House is controlled by the Repubs.

    Fool me once...

    Parent

    "No reason" - hahahahahahaha (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 07:58:53 PM EST
    You mean apart from his statements about Judge Curiel, which h were the "textbook definition of racism" according to Speaker Ryan (and anyone with at lest a double-digit IQ)?

    Or his Islamaphobic smear against a Gold Star mother?

    Here's a few more for you:

    "Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes."

    "I think that's guy's lazy. And it's probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks."

    Then there's his promotion of the birther movement and lots more.

    Yeah - nothing bigoted bout him at all.

    Heh, heh, heh ...

    Parent

    Read what I wrote to MKS (none / 0) (#174)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 09:13:32 AM EST
    but it also allows the ad makers to show one provocative quote -- "laziness is a trait in blacks" -- for which there is no actual recording; it is a secondhand quote attributed to Trump by a former employee.

    WaPost

    And the "black guys counting..." comes from the same second hand source and has been denied.

    And saying harsh things about individual Muslims doesn't make one a bigot. (Educate yourself. Muslims are not a race.) And the use of the made up word, "islamaphobic" is laughable.

    But, again using that criteria, then you have a bad case of "jimakappkphobic."

    lol

    Many people were, and some are, convinced that Obama was not born in the US. You may disagree. You may think them wrong. But that doesn't make them racists or bigots.

    You hate Trump because you fear that he will be elected and you want to elect Hillary.

    It really is that simply.

    Parent

    Your answer sure is "simple", Jim (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 11:50:22 AM EST
    ... just not in the way you intend it.

    And the "black guys counting..." comes from the same second hand source and has been denied
    .

    Ohhhhh ... so now you want an "actual recording" before you will believe a statement made by someone.  That's quite an interesting new standard you have, suddenly.  I'll remember to hold you to that in the future when you start pushing more lies about Democrats - as you always do.

    Of course, actual employees of Trump have gone on the record about his racist statements - they would be in the best position to know/hear them - and O'Donnell isn't the only one.

    The fact that Trump denied it is funny, though.  Of course, he waited for years until he was running for office before trying to deny it, even years after acknowledging that what the author wrote about him was "probably true".

    And saying harsh things about individual Muslims doesn't make one a bigot. (Educate yourself. Muslims are not a race.) And the use of the made up word, "islamaphobic" is laughable
    .

    Of course it doesn't.  But then again, that's not what Trump did.  He suggested (without ANY evidence other than his own, bigoted thoughts) - that the reason Mrs. Kahn didn't speak was because she "wasn't allowed to".  You know - because she's a Muslim and her husband won't let her.  This disgusting comment about a Gold Star mother earned him the scorn from most Americans, including actual veterans, regardless of the bigoted cheers from a few armchair warriors.

    BTW - You really shouldn't tell your betters to "educate yourself".  But I'll be happy to educate the less fortunate, like you, Jim.  "Bigot" does not apply only to racists - like people who post pictures of Obama with a bone in his nose on their silly blogs.  But here's the definition to help you understand.  Read it and get back to me if you're still having trouble.

    a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

    Oh, look!  There's also a definition of Islamophobe" - a word you said is a "made up word".  Better let the editor's of the Oxford Dictionary know!

    Heh, heh ...

    Many people were, and some are, convinced that Obama was not born in the US. You may disagree. You may think them wrong. But that doesn't make them racists or bigots.

    Oh. I don't "think" they're wrong, Jim - I know it.  It's been proven time and time again.  And in my opinion they are pushing their lie about his birthplace because he's an African-American with a father who's African i.e. because they are bigots.  Of course, the fact that someone who posts racist pictures of Obama with a bone through his nose on his blog doesn't think their racists really isn't very convincing.

    Parent

    When you make the quote (none / 0) (#190)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 10:12:03 PM EST
    Ohhhhh ... so now you want an "actual recording" before you will believe a statement made by someone.

    Why yes. Yes I do.

    Mrs Khan is not unique. There are thousands of Gold Star mothers...and they didn't show up to use the sacrifice of their son for political purposes.

    Parent

    That's nice you suddenly (none / 0) (#194)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 06, 2016 at 09:51:18 AM EST
    ... feel that only recorded statements are convincing.  You should tell someone who won't laugh at your hypocritical new standard.   But you can rest assured I'll hold you to it in the future.

    As far as Mrs. Kahn, you armchair warriors and your cowardly candidate aren't fit to wipe her shoes, let alone try to smear her.

    Hey, have you figured out the proper use of the word "bigot" and that "Islamophobe" is a real word

    Parent

    When it comes to you and Internet quotes (none / 0) (#195)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 06, 2016 at 07:14:31 PM EST
    Yes. Yes I do. Others, not so much. :-)

    And I found a new phrase.

    Islamic Overcompensation Syndrome.

    An IOS sufferer will call anyone who disagrees with Islam or criticizes the actions of Muslims as "racists", "fascists", or "Islamophobes", in an effort to prevent any dialogue and acknowledging the truth/merit in the other person's argument.

    And I am sure you're pawing at the ground to call Col West  and the Benghazi survivors  "armchair warriors."

    I would pay money to see that!

    And yes, Mr and Mrs. Khan used the death of their son as a political card to attack Trump.

    Obviously they disagreed with his comments re Muslim "refugees."

    Otherwise they would not have been on TV supporting a person who voted for the war in which their son died.

    And as I wrote, there are thousands of Gold Star mothers. A very sad but true fact. Just as there are 49 Orlando Star mothers. And 14 San Bernardino  Gold Star mothers... and on and on killed in the war of radical islam against the west.

    Parent

    It's not an "internet quote" (none / 0) (#196)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 06, 2016 at 08:19:16 PM EST
    It was published in a book.  One that your boy Donald didn't deny for years until he was running for office.  One that he even admitted the author was "probably true" ... until he was running for office.

    Heh.

    BTW - Now that it's been demonstrated you don't understand the meaning of the word "bigot" - and that "Islamophobe" is real word - you're reduce to citing made-up words by linking to the Urban Dictionary?

    Heh, heh ... you realize it's not an actual dictionary, right?

    No idea what your point about San Bernidino/Orlando Gold Star Mothers is - considering there just a made-up words.  Then again - it doesn't matter, since you and your Islamophobic/armchair warrior candidate aren't fir to wipe the Kahn's shoes.

    Parent

    So it was in a book (none / 0) (#197)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 06, 2016 at 10:36:03 PM EST
    Whatever. I bet I can find "proving" Obama was born in Kenya.

    lol

    I understand bigots and racists. I find some of the former here on a regular basis.

    And the point about Gold Star mothers is rather obvious when you hook the Kahn's statement and use of the death of their son to what's been happening here.

    Parent

    No, you can't (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Yman on Wed Sep 07, 2016 at 07:34:31 AM EST
    But please feel free to find a quote from Obama saying he was born in Kenya.  Get back to me when you find it.  Heh.

    I understand bigots and racists. I find some of the former here on a regular basis.

    No doubt you do.  In fact, some of them post racist photos of Obama worth a bone through his nose on their blogs.


    Parent

    Trump's attacks on Judge Curiel (none / 0) (#171)
    by MKS on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 07:30:24 PM EST
    because of his Mexican heritage were called "racist" by Speaker Paul Ryan.

    Don't have the time or inclination to spoon feed more.

    Parent

    The last time I checkled (none / 0) (#173)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 08:52:30 AM EST
    Ryan doesn't speak for anyone but himself.

    Based on that criteria:

    Hillary is a crook!

    Now. Where's the police?

    Let's look at the definition of racism.

    the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

    prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

    Trump's comments were tough. He said that the judge was doing what he was doing because the judge didn't like his comments about ULH's having some killers/rapists/drug dealers. Given that Trump was speaking of millions of people it is obvious he was correct.

    Trump was accusing the judge of being prejudicial.  That isn't racist.

    Parent

    JIm, you define racism (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by MKS on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 12:52:43 PM EST
    way too narrowly.  Racism is more than planting a flaming cross on someone's lawn.   It is not confined to lynching.

    It includes, by the way, posting a photo on a blog of Obama with a bone through his nose.

    Parent

    If you can't stand to debate (none / 0) (#180)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 02:29:52 PM EST
    the issues and have someone make fun of your leader.... Well, go to your safe space.

    What you are trying to do is known in baseball as "Widening the strike zone."

    One more time tell me what was wrong with my plan to help the ULH's.

    Oh, I know, it doesn't include Open Borders.

    Parent

    Well, you can make fun (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by MKS on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 03:35:57 PM EST
    of Obama, but when you do so in a racist way, you do reveal much of yourself.

    Parent
    And what would be a non racist way? (none / 0) (#186)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 06:09:14 PM EST
    In your opinion that is..

    lol

    Face facts. You'd say any criticism of him was racist.

    Just review what you claimed about Trump saying that he believed the judge would be prejudicial.

    Again. I proposed doing things that would help the ULH's and all you can do is drop the race word. You don't care about the people. This is all just a political game to folks like you and Yman.

    This is just like the Muslim refugee problem. There is no way we can, or should, take hundreds of thousands that have some members that will kill us. But we can, as Trump suggested, establish safe zones in Syria and elsewhere in the ME where Muslims can live in safety and peace.

    Try doing something that is constructive rather than just PC.

    Parent

    There are literally THOUSANDS ... (none / 0) (#187)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 06:24:35 PM EST
    ... or MILLIONS of ways people can criticize Obama in a legitimate, non-racist way.  Posting a picture of him dressed as a witch doctor with a bone through his nose - as you did - isn't one of them.

    The fact that you have to be told that tells anyone all they need to know ...

    ... about you.

    Parent

    And you would call them racists no (none / 0) (#188)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 09:59:43 PM EST
    matter what they said.

    BTW What will your Dear Leader do to rescue Obamacare?

    Parent

    Actually, I wouldn't (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 06, 2016 at 09:40:44 AM EST
    I've even criticized Obama many times myself.   But I would  (and have) also called out the racism of the wingnuts who post pictures of our POTUS dressed as a native African with a bone through his nose, as any person with at least a double digit IQ would.

    Ohhhhhhhhhh ...

    Parent

    Ryan (none / 0) (#175)
    by FlJoe on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 09:59:17 AM EST
    happens to be one of the top leaders of the GOP, when he speaks much of his party and all of the media pay attention. You of course dismiss anything and everything that does not march in lockstep with your worldview.

    Trump, in no uncertain terms, accused the judge of being prejudicial solely based on his race. Ie. a racist statement

    Parent

    I dismiss nothing (none / 0) (#176)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 10:12:59 AM EST
    but Ryan speaks for himself. His supposed influence is almost zero among Trump voters and much of the Repub base. And that's what this election is all about.

    The rejection of the DC elites.

    I thought some Lefties had done that with Bernie but he was just paying for a vacation home...and his supporters went running to Mama Hillary.

    And no, Trump accused him of being prejudicial because of what Trump had said.

    In an interview, Mr. Trump said U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel had "an absolute conflict" in presiding over the litigation given that he was "of Mexican heritage" and a member of a Latino lawyers' association. Mr. Trump said the background of the judge, who was born in Indiana to Mexican immigrants, was relevant because of his campaign stance against illegal immigration and his pledge to seal the southern U.S. border. "I'm building a wall. It's an inherent conflict of interest," Mr. Trump said.

    WSJ

    Parent

    "Mama Hillary" (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 11:58:25 AM EST
    Good for you, Jim.  Don't be afraid to let your true sexism show while trying to defend racism?

    Hey, did you ever remove that photo you posted of Obama with a bone through his nose?

    Parent

    Nope (none / 0) (#181)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 02:37:27 PM EST
    Sure haven't. And a witch doctor could have done a better job of expanding health care than Obamacare.... It's only going straight up and insurers are leaving.

    And you don't have a Mama?

    lol

    Parent

    I do (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 03:43:37 PM EST
    But Hillary's not my "mama" - or yours.  You can refer to her as "Secretary", or - in a few months - "Madam President".

    But it's nice you leave your racist pictures on your blog for all to see.  Tells everyone what they should know about you and your ridiculous attempts to defend racism.

    "LOL!"

    Parent

    I can call her whatever I want (none / 0) (#184)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 05:53:55 PM EST
    Just as you folks posted insulting pictures of Bush, it is fair game to post insulting pictures of Obama.

    Quit hiding behind the false cries of racism and debate the issues.

    Parent

    Take some personal responsibility for a change (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 06:01:18 PM EST
    Sorry, Jim.  Much as you always try to justify YOUR posting of racist pictures of Obama because someone anonymous person posted a picture of Bush somewhere, I didn't post any pictures of Bush.  YOU, OTOH, did post the racist pictures.

    Time to put on your big-boy pants for a change.

    BTW - It's actually great that you decided to use your sexist slurs against her and post your racist pictures of Obama.  Shows everyone exactly  who you really are ...


    Parent

    Yman, since you don't have a (none / 0) (#189)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 05, 2016 at 10:02:18 PM EST
    blog, this isn't about you.

    But being the narcissist you are, I can see your actions.
     

    Parent

    You'll need to try that again (none / 0) (#193)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 06, 2016 at 09:42:08 AM EST
    And here I thought you wingers wanted people to use English ...

    Parent
    We have a winner! (none / 0) (#106)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 02:38:12 PM EST
    There has been very little illegal immigration across our southern border since 2008.  There has actually been a net outflow the other way to Mexico from the U.S.--as the Mexican President noted.

    Not that you would know that from what Trump has been saying.  For the Trump people we will never have a border secure enough to allow us to allow the undocumented to stay in the U.S.

    It really is about the fear of a taco truck on every corner.  That is the perfect way to understand this.  I would love a taco truck on every corner.  One of life's great joy's is finding and frequenting hole-in-wall Mexican food places.   Here in SoCal you have all kinds of Mexican food or Latino food restaurants...from your high end, fancy pants restaurants where weddings are held, to the mom and pop established mid-priced restaurant, to tacky chains like Chevy's, to your country specific places like Peruvian food, to fast food places (Taco Bell, Pollo Loco and Del Taco around here), to trendy healthy and lean millennial stuff like Rubios, Wahoos Fish Tacos, Chipotle, and Baja Fresh, and then the hole-in-the wall stuff.  But a taco truck.  Bring it on!

    One reason I think the East Coast is a cultural wasteland is there are few Mexican and Latino Food restaurants.  

    Our grocery stores, even in whitebread areas, have all kinds of tortillas you can buy:  corn, flour, low carb flour etc.  You guys must hate that.  Probably never had a fish taco.

    Mexican food everywhere. But this is what white America fears...totally stupid, wrong and irrational.  

    Parent

    And Spanish being spoken (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 02:42:20 PM EST
    drives some nuts.  I like it.  My Spanish skills have atrophied to almost nil and it is to try and remember some.

    And, I love the way many Latino homes are decorated, including my relatives.  More color and more stuff on the walls....makes it a much warmer and homeier feeling than the modern, minimalist cold grey steel look, where people are trying to look like the lobby of the Four Seasons.

    Short version: Protest all they like, Trump supporters just do not like Latinos.  

    Parent

    The feast of the senses (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 02:57:11 PM EST
    experience is overwhelming and induces panic in people whose sphincters have been slammed shut and closed for business for decades.

    Parent
    Except, of course, those who ... (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 10:37:28 PM EST
    MKS: "Short version: Protest all they like, Trump supporters just do not like Latinos."

    ... obviously don't like tacos -- which, in my honest opinion, is downright un-American.

    Parent

    blech! (1.67 / 3) (#115)
    by linea on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 10:06:20 PM EST
    it's a horrible sounding language. only thing worse than spanish is russian. but they both make me want to want put my fingers in my ears. i feel japanese is pretty. why cant we flood the country with unlimited japanese workers to drive down the wages of american laborers instead?

    Parent
    It all depends on who's speaking it (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 12:28:28 PM EST
    did you ever hear a great singer sing Guantanamera?

    Parent
    I suggest you give a listen (none / 0) (#146)
    by Peter G on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 01:17:01 PM EST
    to Silvio Rogríguez some time.

    Parent
    This is another good example (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 01:54:00 PM EST
    Link

    Parent
    Or a reading of some poems (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Peter G on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 02:13:44 PM EST
    by Pablo Neruda.

    Parent
    Gracias, Senor (none / 0) (#170)
    by christinep on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 05:06:21 PM EST


    Parent
    Silvio Rodriguez and Pablo Milanes (none / 0) (#200)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 07, 2016 at 01:47:39 PM EST
    singing Yolanda. Me gusta!

    Parent
    Ask and you shall receive (none / 0) (#151)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 02:22:13 PM EST
    Raul Malo sings Guantanamera.

    Link

    Parent

    Beautiful and exuberant (none / 0) (#153)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 02:51:04 PM EST
    when non-Latinos sing it, they sometimes tend to make it sound too overly-wistful, imo.

    That guitar player looks like the guy from Los Lobos.

    Parent

    Louis "Satchmo" Armstrong (none / 0) (#199)
    by fishcamp on Wed Sep 07, 2016 at 10:56:58 AM EST
    has a terrific rendition of "La Cucaracha".  I needed that song for one of my short fishing movies filmed in Isla Mujeres.  It's quite amazing how many different renditions exist of that song, and many can be found in iTunes.

    Parent
    Too bad for you (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 02:24:17 PM EST
    It can communicate joy and love better than English.  It is about being alive and feeling life.

    Parent
    One translation.. (5.00 / 3) (#154)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 03:09:38 PM EST
    I am a truthful man who comes from the land of palm trees..

    My song is bright green and flaming red..

    My song is a wounded fawn seeking refuge in the mountains.

    I grow a white rose
    in June and January
    For the sincere friend
    Who offers his hand..

    Parent

    We celebrated this backfire (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 07:10:35 PM EST
    by making tacos for dinner this evening. Yum.

    Parent
    Now, now, MKS, no need to get carried away. (none / 0) (#111)
    by vml68 on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 07:47:40 PM EST
    the East Coast is a cultural wasteland is there are few Mexican and Latino Food restaurants.

    True, there aren't as many Mexican and Latino restaurants on the East coast vs the West coast but there are so many other countries foods represented on the East coast (specifically NY and NJ) that there is no way it can be called a cultural wasteland.

    I will be visiting LA in Nov, looking forward to trying out a variety of restaurants while there.

    Parent

    That is certainly true, and I enjoy some of them (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 08:30:14 PM EST
    here in FL too, though not as many as NY of course.

    But dang it, sometimes I just want some good Mexican food, and I can't find it here!!!!

    Parent

    Yeah, I've got Hasids down the street (already) (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 10:36:45 PM EST
    AAs next-door, a Nepalese family around the corner, and Little Puerto Rico about a mile away..

    How much more multicultural do you wanna get?

    I'm living in the middle of the average Teabagger's worst nightmare. The place they think they get sent to if they're bad in this life..

    It's many things here, but no kind of cultural wasteland.

    Parent

    Heh, just a rhetorical flourish (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 08:07:50 AM EST
    Not meant to be taken literally....a (reverse) Trumpism, if you will.

    Parent
    I just assumed it was (none / 0) (#147)
    by jondee on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 01:21:23 PM EST
    your Post Sanders Stress Disorder talking ;-)

    Parent
    And that's the Nightmare from Hell ... (none / 0) (#120)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 10:49:09 PM EST
    ... for people whose culture is defined as "Wheel of Fortune," "Let's Make a Deal" and "American Ninja Warrior."

    Parent
    You need (none / 0) (#113)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 08:32:55 PM EST
    to come visit Atlanta if you think we on the east coast are a cultural wasteland. We have a whole section of town where Vietnamese refugees landed and the stores signs are in both Vietnamese and English. We have all kinds of cuisine though I understand from a friend who is from Arizona that our Mexican food is not up to par with the western part of the country. We have tons of nationalities and tons of lovely immigrants and the civil rights movement and the Sweet Auburn section and just wonderful things. Come visit! And we have one of the busiest airports in the world.

    Parent
    Correction: You have ,,, (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 03:54:07 AM EST
    ... THE busiest airport in the world, period, and have since 2000 at least. No other airport comes close to ATL, which in my opinion also has the least efficient customs operation of any U.S. airport I've ever transited as an international gateway.

    Parent
    All of you can (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 07:47:44 PM EST
    try and ignore the fact that culture south of the border has played a major part of why these countries are exporting millions of people.

    But you can't. It is there and the people have left because of poverty and lack of freedom.

    And loving the food, or the language, or the music,  etc., won't help the individuals living in poverty.

    And you can snark and claim and play word games...but the facts are that I have presented a workable and doable plan to actually help.

    As a group none of you have refuted it.

    I find it sad that you, as a group, seem to not want the problem solved.

    Parent

    So I misspoke (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 10:12:24 AM EST
    and you do a TrumpUnderstanding.  Really??

    The culture and political situation is spewing refugees. You can defend that all you want but we currently have millions here and millions more wanting to come here.

    By acting as a "safety valve" we do a disservice to the people. As long as the ruling class can export people they won't change.

    Well, if you use immigration as the standard for judging inferior cultures, immigration from Mexico has actually been negative recently....people are leaving here for there.  So, does that mean American culture is now inferior?

    Again someone takes a point to the extreme and does a TrumpUnderstanding.

    Call me back when the numbers approach 11 million.

    Actually the reversal is credited to our loss of jobs and no growth.

    Perhaps we are seeing them go home to take the jobs we exported. (Makes as much sense as your claim. Which is to say, none.)

    What happened to the small towns? Why did they leave?

    The small town I live in is a good example. Back in the 60's and into the mid 80's we had factories move into the area. Factories are "people concentrators." When the factories were thinned out people left.

    What we are seeing now is an economy dominated by service industries. Historically service economies have wealth concentrated by a few served by the "have nots" in which each transaction adds very little value because the served can do the job themselves. You can mow your own grass. You can cook your meals. You can't build your own car. You can't build your own plane. Check out the difference in wages between a Flight Attendant and an a line worker for Boeing.

    And as long as we have a surplus of worker bees..lots of Flight Attendants very few skilled machinists..wages will be low.

    Standard stuff known by any farmer who has watched the price of his tomatoes go down as more and more growers's fruit ripen.

    Guess why the factories left? We exported them based on economic policies.

    At one time Walmart bragged "Made in America." Now everything is "Made Somewhere Else."

    That Donald's daughter is one of many that do not understand the problem, or willing to even admit we have a problem, is sad.

    Are there many Latinos (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 11:23:28 AM EST
    where you live? It doesn't sound like it. Studies have shown that those who are mosr suspicious or resentful of Latinos are in communities that jave few Latinos.

    I have lived the vast majority of my life on communities that have many, many Latinos. "They" dont appear as some invading force to me. Nope. As American as apple pie or pan dulce with apple filling. Out West Latino culture is part of American culture. Latinos were here well befor Anglos.

    The Zorro stories were set in the California of the 1840s. That was a Latino California. Mant Latino families have been in the US for generations and much longer than many Anglos.

    But you guys just dont get it. Trump will alienate Latinos nationwide for generations just like Prop 187 did here in California.

    Parent

    I still marvel at an act of bigotry (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 12:55:00 PM EST
    I experienced awhile back.  

    I had taken my date to a pier here in Southern California for a nice stroll on a Saturday night.  She was a Daisy Dukes type from Tennessee and new to California.

    We got to the end of the pier and I went to the restroom.  When I came back, she told me how she had been afraid when she was left alone.   She pointed to all "those" people.  I was mystified and looked around to see what she was talking about.  I didn't get it at first.

    Then, I realized she was talking about the Latino family that was fishing off the end of the pier.  My reaction to that family was not fear but wondering if they really wanted to eat what they caught.  Not so nice waters.  

    It was a whole family out there on the pier including grandma. A couple of middle age men and women and a little kid.  I didn't see any teenagers who had better things to do, I assume, and had probably been bored and left.

    Good gawd, that Latino family would have probably been the first ones to help her.  But she thought this family was bunch of gang bangers. I had to cut Daisy Dukes loose.

    Parent

    Smart decision! (none / 0) (#53)
    by vml68 on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 01:48:36 PM EST
    I had to cut Daisy Dukes loose.

    I've been in this country 25 years and have never been afraid. It is not that I was unaware that racism existed, but I was never personally subjected to it.

    This election with Tr*mp bringing the crazy mainstream has changed that. As someone who gets mistaken for a Latina all the time, now, when I drive through small towns that are predominantly white, I get nervous. When I see some old geezer or young redneck looking white male with a Tr*mp sticker on their vehicle look at me while driving, I wonder what's going through their mind.

    If Tr*mp wins, it is going to be open season on all of us brown skinned people.

    Parent

    that's not very fair (none / 0) (#121)
    by linea on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 10:50:00 PM EST
    it's not a rational thing; it's feelings. i'm frightened of homeless people. even young runaway kids. and by the way, i dont need 16 year old runaway girls yelling "Smile!" at me as i walk by. so that's how i feel.

    Parent
    Why are you frightened by homeless kids? (none / 0) (#129)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 02:53:52 AM EST
    If anything, given their exposure and likely lack of parental protection, homeless youths are far likely more to be victimized by crime than are you. If they put up a tough front, it's because they have to in order to survive.

    We all have fears, but while it's necessary to acknowledge them as a means to cope, sometimes it's just as important to ask ourselves if those fears are indeed rational. Human beings have vivid imaginations, and thus an infinite capacity envision and fantasize all sorts of scenarios, not all of them realistic.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Many?? Quite a few (none / 0) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 02:44:13 PM EST
    But I take strong, very strong exception to your prejudicial  expression that if someone opposes the current immigration policy, which has led to the explosion of Latinos/Hispanics - LH's - undocumented immigrants then they are bigots.

    The issue is not people who have came through the front door.

    And I take your question as a gambit for me to tell you I have friends who are LH's....lol Well...The Mexican owner of the Mexican specialty grocery store on Main St. is an acquaintance. ;- )

    So somehow I get the feeling that this a political thing with you. You want Open Borders. I want closed borders.

    As for using Zoror... Well, Davy Crockett killed him a bear when he was only three... Have we actually sunk to using Disney as history??

    But since you brought it up... Take a look at societal models of Southern Europe vs Northern Europe starting in the 13th century or so. Both featured feudal societies with kings, queens, dukes, knights and peasants huddle around the castle. As Spain/Portugal explored and invaded The New World the society they brought was the one they knew.

    OTOH the English and French brought a similar society but one that featured a king with much more limited power and the English had the Magna Carta. The net result was America, a constitutional republic and a success.

    Southward? No. And you can wiggle and call names but the influx of LH's show the truth. People do not leave a functioning society/culture to go work hundreds/thousands miles away just so they can send money home so their family can eat.

    Like I said. This is not about people who came in the front door. As for who was here first..I have a Great Grandmother that was a NA so I guess I'm in front of you.  lol

    I have stated my immigration policy several times and what I would do to solve the problem many times. I'll be brief.

    Close the border. That makes all the people here more important when it comes to pay and benefits.

    Give everyone here a Green Card and as part of the process filter out the criminals and either put them in jail or send them back. Anyone who doesn't apply gets deported pronto. Those who want to apply for citizenship can do so but they are behind everyone else.

    Shut off funding for Sanctuary Cities. They are homes for criminals.

    Fine and/or jail anyone who employs an undocumented worker.

    Stop all new immigrants until we have caught up.

    That seems workable and doable.

    But it isn't passable until we enact some very tough laws for voter ID including registration. A large number of people see this as just a way to get illegal votes.

    As for your female friend...well it does seem a bit convenient... But if she looked anything like Cousin Daisy I admire your support for political correctness..... Me? I think I'd try to educate her...over drinks, fine food and a good Cabernet.

    BTW Outside of Open Borders and doing nothing..what is your plan?

    Parent

    The ongoing relative lack of people (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 03:01:30 PM EST
    flooding here from Central and South America, other than from war-torn countries, pretty much blows your more-evolved-Northern-Countries argument out of the water..

    But, speaking of Northern European traditions, why is it that there's still no quicker way to send talk radio conservatives into an incoherent tizzy than to posit Scandinavian social democracies as the ideal?  

    Parent

    Yeah... the Magna Carta did not do (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 04:14:41 PM EST
    my English ancestors much good...they had to come here in the 1860's to find work. And don't get me started on the Irish ancestors. Or the Germans for that matter...why the heck would they leave?

    Parent
    You didn't (none / 0) (#86)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 09:16:11 PM EST
    respond to my assertion that we should apply your migration theory to your flyover country--people flee inferior cultures.    You just gave excuses for the loss of the young from your towns....

    I would not blame the "culture" of the towns losing population--but your theory would.  Unless of course your theory only applies to brown people.

    As to Daisy Dukes, she did wear her shorts well, but she dropped the "n" word on me on the drive home from the pier.   Life is just too short.  Not willing to put up with that.  Others wear their shorts well too.  Ever been to a Democratic rally?  As I told our son, the Mother Lode.  

    Parent

    Agreed. (none / 0) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 05:24:16 PM EST
    I attended Catholic schools while growing up in Pasadena / L.A., and quite a few of my classmates were Latino. Our region's Hispanic history was openly accepted as part of our universal heritage. My best friend in elementary and junior high school was Sansei, or third-generation Japanese-American.

    Honestly, I never gave any of this immigration fear a second thought, even though I had relatives who trafficked in it. The idea that I was somehow the superior of my classmates and friends by virtue of my skin and eye color was preposterous -- and quite frankly, it still is.

    Our country's diversity should define us and not divide us. Personally, I find it to be one of our country's most compelling and attractive attributes. Those who fear diversity tend to live -- or perhaps a better term is "exist" -- in areas where there's little ethnic or racial diversity to be found, and the population is mostly homogeneous.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Or they live in (none / 0) (#76)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 06:29:00 PM EST
    homogeneous enclaves in areas where diversity can easily be found.

    Parent
    The Problem Is Not Immigration (none / 0) (#50)
    by vicndabx on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 11:35:36 AM EST
    it is a desire by some to maintain the status quo or go back to some time that is long gone now in the technological age we're in.

    Even FOX News polls show the majority of Americans don't want immigrants to be deported.  What's sad is there are many who fight change tooth and nail.  What people need is opportunity through re-training initiatives and addt'l education.  Throwing a bunch of people out of the country is a temporary measure that won't address the root causes of the decline you refer to.

    Your man Trump came off as an unhinged lunatic last night and regardless of what you think about his positions should not be anywhere near the White House.

    Parent

    The survey was for suburbs of Ohio (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 02:54:21 PM EST
    and the liberal base of Northern Virginia?

    What is next? Sin is bad? And then this:

    What people need is opportunity through re-training initiatives and addt'l education.

    Well, that did work in Cambodia, Vietnam, China and the Soviet Union.

    Where did you say you are from

    Parent

    The poll is a random national sample (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by vicndabx on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 03:05:18 PM EST
    Majority of Americans do not agree with you. Facts are facts sir.

    Parent
    You are arguing... (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 09:14:04 AM EST
    with a troll who thinks the number of landline and cell phone numbers included in the survey are area codes.  

    Do you really expect to gain anything from it?

    Parent

    All i know is what was written (none / 0) (#71)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 05:41:59 PM EST
    Landline (440) and cellphone (571) telephone numbers were randomly selected for inclusion in the survey using a probability proportionate to size method, which means phone numbers for each state are proportional to the number of voters in each state. Fieldwork conducted by Braun Research, Inc. of Princeton, NJ.


    Parent
    What you. "Know" (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 10:27:20 AM EST
    ... is, as usual,  completely false.  Those numbers aren't area codes, Jim.  They're the number of people surveyed by cell lines and land lines.  Hence the statement indicating it was a random national sample, not to mention the fact that the two "area codes" add up to the total number of respondents.

    Oy.

    Parent

    Training and retraining programs (none / 0) (#58)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 03:09:48 PM EST
    is a commie idea?

    Are there no workhouses? Are there no prisons?

    That dismissive "let them eat cake" attitude isn't going to get you far with a lot if out-of-order Americans and their families.

    Parent

    87% of respondents would never vote for Clinton (none / 0) (#60)
    by vicndabx on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 03:37:06 PM EST
    not exactly a liberal sample. Yet 77% think we should set up a system for illegal immigrants to become legal.

    Another interesting tidbit, 85% would never consider voting for Trump. Silver linings....

    Parent

    This seems workable (none / 0) (#64)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 04:16:34 PM EST
    What part in that is objectionable? If politicians really want to compromise on immigration, this is most likely where they will end up.
    People who came here through the back door, and have committed no crimes will be given legal status, but there can be no compromise until the back door is shut

    I have stated my immigration policy several times and what I would do to solve the problem many times. I'll be brief.

    Close the border. That makes all the people here more important when it comes to pay and benefits.

    Give everyone here a Green Card and as part of the process filter out the criminals and either put them in jail or send them back. Anyone who doesn't apply gets deported pronto. Those who want to apply for citizenship can do so but they are behind everyone else.

    Shut off funding for Sanctuary Cities. They are homes for criminals.

    Fine and/or jail anyone who employs an undocumented worker.

    Stop all new immigrants until we have caught up.

    That seems workable and doable.



    Parent
    One objection is that (none / 0) (#65)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 04:24:34 PM EST
    the impossible task of 'shutting the back door' is established as a precondition for even talking about the rest.

    The other is that Trump started his part of the discussion with needless demonizing of immigrants.

    Parent

    Correct (none / 0) (#66)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 04:30:12 PM EST
    The other is that Trump started his part of the discussion with needless demonizing of immigrants.

    That was needless,uncalled for, and just plain wrong.


    the impossible task of 'shutting the back door' is established as a precondition for even talking about the rest.

    It is not impossible, but at least show some effort. EVerify would go a long way to ease the rush over the border. And yes, that part has to get done first, because if you announce the "amnesty" first, then you would really get a rush to the border

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    I just get the impression the (none / 0) (#67)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 04:36:10 PM EST
    'back door' question will always be used as the excuse to not do anything on the other parts of the puzzle.

    Oh yeah, calling it 'amnesty' is another objection I have.

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    Called compromise (none / 0) (#68)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 05:00:27 PM EST
    Seal off the border, as best as you can,

    And those here already, without a criminal record, can become legal residents.

    I believe that the shutting off of the spigot must be put in motion first, or else there will be a huge wave coming.

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    What is your metric for when it is sealed (none / 0) (#78)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 06:40:25 PM EST
    enough to start doing the rest of the reforms?

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    There is no trust (none / 0) (#79)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 07:02:12 PM EST
    Too many remember Reagan's deal in  '86 (85?) that gave amnesty and was supposed to fix the problem. The Demo Congress wouldn't follow through and the flood continued.

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    and utter lack of consideration (none / 0) (#69)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 05:19:48 PM EST
    for the damage that will be done to many small businesses.  

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    No, it is not impossible (none / 0) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 05:55:50 PM EST
    and it is the absolute bedrock.

    Unless you do that the flood of LH's will continue.

    The public will not buy into giving out green cards if that is happening. It is de facto Amnesty.

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    Blowback (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 06:12:19 PM EST
    President of the Latino Partnership for Conservative Principles Alfonso Aguilar explains why he just decided to dump Trump.

    ---------

    "I was a strong supporter of Donald Trump when I believed he was going to address the immigration problem realistically and compassionately," Jacob Monty, a member of Trump's Hispanic Advisory Council, told Politico.
    Monty, an attorney in Houston, resigned from the group Wednesday night after the speech

    He's the most (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 06:15:21 PM EST
    prominent one but I understand at least half of them are getting ready to walk because of that speech.

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    That was 2 (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 06:26:04 PM EST
    Not a very clear comment.   Listening to Montey on MSNBC right now.  

    "He doesn't want to win.  He wants to sell baseball caps and T-shirts"

    This wed Latino gambit has totally exploded in his face.  I love it.  

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    You have to wonder (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 06:39:24 PM EST
    if the guy was living in a cave though if he ever thought Trump was going to deal with immigration realistically and compassionately.

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    They are being asked about this (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 01, 2016 at 07:09:40 PM EST
    Just then there was a mashup of hateful Trump clips, you know the ones, then the question, after all that it was the speech?  WTF?

    Squirming ensued.  What the hell.  I say welcome them from the dark side.  Better late than never.

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    Did you see the Trump guy on MSNBC's ... (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 03:52:07 AM EST
    ... "All In with Chris Hayes" tonight? He asserted to guest host Joy Reid that Latino culture is "a dominant culture," and that "we'll have taco trucks on every corner" if it's not actively opposed.

    These people are out of their fckn minds.

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    How dare a latino (none / 0) (#127)
    by Redbrow on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 11:51:59 PM EST
    Have his own opinion that differs from white regressive's stereotypes of latinos!

    He must be ridiculed, marginalized and ostracized!

    Ignore his message as whole and focus on one silly line!

    Hillary was right when ahe said white people need to do a better job listening to people of color.

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    Oh, look! According to HERA, ... (5.00 / 3) (#133)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 04:27:43 AM EST
    ... a California non-profit organization which assists state residents with housing issues, Mr. Gutierrez is a real estate flim-flam artist who preys on his own fellow Latinos. Per HERA'A 2013-14 Annual Report, page 11:

    "Abuses leveled at immigrants can be particularly vicious. As part of a foreclosure rescue scam, Marco Gutierrez bullied and intimidated HERA's monolingual Spanish-Speaking homeowner client, charging over $16,000 for a loan modification. He took the homeowner's car as partial payment but never changed registration, racking up unpaid tickets under the homeowner's name. When HERA helped the homeowner complain to authorities, the scammer filed a meritless lawsuit against the homeowner (and against a HERA staffer). In the course of defending the case, HERA discovered that Gutierrez was a serial litigant who had filed dozens of actions against his 'clients.' Gutierrez was using the court system to bully vulnerable residents across several counties into paying amounts they did not owe him and to retaliate against those who complained about his practices. After defeating Gutierrez's claims HERA brought a successful vexatious litigant motion against Gutierrez. As a result, both HERA's client and countless other unrepresented homeowners who might have fallen prey to Gutierrez's tactics are now protected." (Emphasis added.)

    No wonder he likes Trump so much! Who could've seen THAT coming, eh?

    (H/T Crooks & Liars.)

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    More proof (5.00 / 4) (#138)
    by FlJoe on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 08:04:49 AM EST
    that Trump surrounds himself with only the "best".
    South Carolina preacher Mark Burns, who regularly introduces Trump at his campaign events, had listed on his church's website that he had a Bachelor of Science degree and served six years in the Army Reserve.
    Burns, however, was never in the Army Reserve. He was in the South Carolina National Guard, from which he was discharged in 2008, CNN found.

    As far as a Bachelor's degree, North Greenville University told CNN he only attended the school for one semester. Burns admitted that he did not finish his degree when CNN asked him about it.

    When CNN confronted Burns about the various professional and social exaggerations he had featured on his biography, Burns first said the page had "obviously" been either "manipulated or either hacked or added."
    But the site host, Wix, said there was no evidence of a hack.

    Ailes, Bannon, Christie, Manafort et al., quite a rouges gallery he has going there, past and present.

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    to snarky (none / 0) (#128)
    by linea on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 11:55:39 PM EST
    to be a good argument. just my feelings (smile).

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    Did you see the video clip? (none / 0) (#130)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 03:24:30 AM EST
    Marco Gutierrez, founder of "Latinos for Trump," stereotyped his fellow Mexican-Americans. What he said was disrespectful and frankly offensive. Anyone who conjures up a hysterically fearful specter of "taco trucks on every corner" is an ignorant fool who's going to wind up ridiculing, marginalizing and ostracizing himself. He certainly doesn't need our assistance.

    My wife is Latina, as are my two daughters and my in-laws. The last thing they need is some white man like you -- or me, for that matter -- to define for them what should be offensive to them and what shouldn't be. Were you to have your way, you'd set the parameters for unacceptable behavior and language so narrowly as to ensure that anything goes.

    As for your admission that Hillary Clinton is right, you ought to take her advice to heart and really start listening to people of color yourself, rather than exclusively to the yahoos like Gutierrez who merely parrot what you want to hear.

    Aloha.

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    The hypocrisy is mind-blowing (none / 0) (#124)
    by Redbrow on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 11:46:24 PM EST

    Bill Clinton Said this in 1996. Trump says it in 2016

    That's not "hypocrisy" (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 03, 2016 at 06:55:34 AM EST
    That's just a silly lie.  Clinton did not say the same things Trump is saying in '96.  Perhaps try getting your news from somewhere other than a Youtube channel or Redstate.

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    to be fair (none / 0) (#126)
    by linea on Fri Sep 02, 2016 at 11:51:30 PM EST
    that's TWENTY years. some of my friends were toddlers.

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    Recommended reading (none / 0) (#160)
    by Nemi on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 08:04:03 AM EST
    ... however appaling the revelations: "How Fox News women took down the most powerful, and predatory, man in media", by Gabriel Sherman.

    A great introduction to the piece is first listening to David Waldman reading from the article, without much previous knowledge of the content, and his asides of instant reactions to the revelations.

    Posting my comment here as not to break the 200 comments nesting-barrier in the open thread ... and after all not all that off topic as Roger Ailes is now very much so connected with Donald Trump and his 'antics'.

    There (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by FlJoe on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 08:19:20 AM EST
    is a definite pattern of Trump embracing toxicity rather than running from it. Strange that the media rarely comment on the "optics" or allow "questions to be raised" or the dreaded "questions linger".

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    I've seen several (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Nemi on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 09:01:25 AM EST
    explanations -- not excuses for the behaviour! -- along the line of media going: 'But there's so much. We can't keep up. Easyer to just stick to going after Hillary Clinton.' Like this:

    There is abundant evidence, then, that Ailes is a vicious misogynist and a workplace predator. So why isn't it a bigger deal that he's advising the Republican presidential nominee?

    To some extent we all know the answer. Donald Trump is a maelstrom. There is so much chaos around him, and so many startling violations of so many political norms, and no one has the bandwidth to process it all.

    Nor the will? Nor stamina? Nor integrity? Nor ... a green light from the editor/CEO?

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    Extremely (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by FlJoe on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 10:03:30 AM EST
    lame excuse. Even if you buy into the theory that the drive for ratings, page views and clicks has degraded the objectivity of the media, there is no logical reason for them to ignore the raging dumpster fires that are left in Trumps wake while constantly chasing the wisps of smoke surrounding the Clintons. Like I said earlier this goes beyond incompetence and is crossing the line into malevolence.

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    I know ... (none / 0) (#167)
    by Nemi on Sun Sep 04, 2016 at 03:09:16 PM EST
    but we'll probably never know for sure, as they won't say. So we'll just have to keep on guessing.

    A little further off topic, apologies, I came across this article from before Roger Ailes joined Donald Trump (if that's what he did?) speculating whether Donald Trump could go 'full Nixon' and hire Roger Ailes.

    Try covering up the top half of the accompanying photo: Maybe that visual isn't the only thing Nixon and Trump have in common?

    Parent

    Another attempt (none / 0) (#191)
    by Nemi on Tue Sep 06, 2016 at 07:29:08 AM EST
    at explaining, not excusing, the media's reaction, or lack of same, from Paul Waldman: Trump's history of corruption is mind-boggling. So why is Clinton supposedly the corrupt one? After giving a long list of Trump scandals that you would expect the media to cover in more depth, Waldman concludes:

    ... To repeat, the point is not that these stories have never been covered, because they have. The point is that they get covered briefly, then everyone in the media moves on. If any of these kinds of stories involved Clinton, news organizations would rush to assign multiple reporters to them, those reporters would start asking questions, and we'd learn more about all of them.

    That's important, because we may have reached a point where the frames around the candidates are locked in: Trump is supposedly the crazy/bigoted one, and Clinton is supposedly the corrupt one. Once we decide that those are the appropriate lenses through which the two candidates are to be viewed, it shapes the decisions the media make every day about which stories are important to pursue.

    And it means that to a great extent, for all the controversy he has caused and all the unflattering stories in the press about him, Trump is still being let off the hook.

    (Emphasis mine.) If that is true, and to me it sounds convincing, the question is how can those frames be broken up? Maybe by Donald Trump trying to act more 'normal' -- 'presidential'! -- and less 'crazy'? And is that a risk (for his 'handlers') worth taking ...

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    Donald Trump to Give Immigration Speech | 199 comments (199 topical)

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