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4th of July Weekend Open Thread

Enjoy the weekend.

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    Glad to see (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by ragebot on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 05:03:17 PM EST
    The environmental disaster in Florida is getting national coverage on CNN.

    This has been going on far too long for national media to ignore it.  The sugar barons need to be exposed.  They get price supports to increase their profits and quotas on foreign sugar to reduce competition.  For far too long the Fanjul family, along with some other players, have bought pols on both sides of the aisle to permit toxic discharges, higher taxes to pay for subsidies for their products, and higher prices for a staple like sugar.  One of the reason cookie makers move to Mexico is they can buy sugar at the world market price; not an inflated US price.

    Hope this brings enough attention to the issue that Florida follows the good path Hawaii blazed and stops sugar production.

    Not just sugar (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Michael Masinter on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 11:33:47 AM EST
    Although the sugar barons are responsible for much Florida environmental degradation, the history and geography of the Lake are more complex.  First, water flows south and southeast from the Kissimmee River basin into Lake Okeechobee, and then to the south and southeast to the Everglades basin.  The canefields are all located south, downstream from the Lake, which serves as their irrigation reservoir during the winter dry season. Much of the agricultural pollution that flows into the Lake comes from cattle ranching and, to a lesser degree, citrus farming and small towns upstream.  
    The harm caused by the sugar barons is the disruption in sheet flow out of the lake, which as noted serves as their winter reservoir.  But the interruption of sheet flow began as a flood control measure following the great hurricane of 1928, which killed thousands of mostly poor black workers to the south and southwest of the lake from Moore Haven to Belle Glade. The Hoover dike protects those towns and would be needed to do so even were there no cane farming.  That's the reason for the current water release -- the Lake is too high, and were we to have one of our too frequent hurricanes during the August-October season for south Florida hurricanes, the dike could fail, with truly catastrophic results from Moore Haven to Miami.

    Finally, the Miami-Fort Lauderdale megalopolis depends for fresh water on wells that draw from the Biscayne Aquifer.  Unlike aquifers in most of the country, the Biscayne Aquifer lies only a dozen feet or so beneath the surface; it would run dry but for the summer rains, and, more importantly, water from the Lake stored for release during the winter dry season.  

    In short, though there are many reasons to kill the sugar industry, doing so would not eliminate the conflicting missions of water management -- flood prevention during hurricane season, and drinking water during the winter dry season.

    But not to worry; in fifty to one hundred years almost the entire southern portion of the state will be a distant memory, submerged by rising seas no matter what we do to the Lake.  The everglades are doomed by already irreversible anthropogenic climate change.

    Parent

    That "fifty to (none / 0) (#61)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 11:49:55 AM EST
    one hundred years," often brings false comfort...the mentality.that such matters will be for the next guy: I need not worry, I will not be around by that time.  However, such changes are not necessarily abrupt ones.  Moreover, the housing market can be impacted much sooner, if banks no longer issue 30-year mortgages and windstorm and other insurance continue to be off limits.

    Parent
    Windstorm costs (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Michael Masinter on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 12:10:05 PM EST
    Windstorm insurance costs are already through the roof and still climbing. We live in unincorporated Miami-Dade county, a/k/a Kendall, and pay more for homeowners insurance than we do in property taxes despite living in a small house on an acre lot. And with the windstorm deductible that kicks in whenever there is a tropical storm watch anywhere in the state (spread across two time zones), the likelihood of any payout for storm damage is small. Much of the damage we suffered in Hurricane Andrew would not be covered today; neither of the 2005 hurricanes produced a covered loss because of the new exclusions and windstorm deductibles.

    I do care about Florida; one of our children makes his home here. I did not mean to suggest that what happens here doesn't matter, only that in many ways, it is too late to forestall the effects of climate change, the ultimate enemy of south Florida.  

    Parent

    Horse Country? (none / 0) (#98)
    by CoralGables on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 06:35:21 PM EST
    East of Horse Country (none / 0) (#170)
    by Michael Masinter on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 10:05:43 PM EST
    Midway between Palmetto and Galloway, south of Sunset.

    Parent
    One of the few areas west of Red (none / 0) (#177)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jul 05, 2016 at 05:55:28 AM EST
    that my running has never taken me. I'm always headed straight east or west on 40, 56, 72 or 88 when anywhere near the palmetto.

    Parent
    The Hoover Dike (none / 0) (#67)
    by ragebot on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 12:35:51 PM EST
    may be part of the problem, not part of the solution.  There was a smaller dike built in 1910 that was breached by the 1926 hurricane that hit Miami and later by the 1928 hurricane you mentioned.  The problem with a dike is that if it fails it is a disaster for those in the spillway where the water from the failed dike goes.  It has reached the point that the Hoover Dike now basically circles the lake with the exception of Fisheating Creek, and there the dike extends several miles along the banks of the creek.

    As for the pollution from areas North of the lake it is a big problem.  While cattle ranches, poultry plants, and citrus farming contribute there is also significant pollution from a huge increase in population (not what I would describe as small towns).  There are simply too many people doing too many things.  But big sugar also back pumps polluted water into the lake.

    Before 1900 there were no dikes and the natural flow of the water extended to the Everglades and into Florida Bay.  Not only did the system of canals and dikes greatly reduce this flow it changed the level of salinity in Florida Bay.  As a result much of the sea grass beds that require lower salinity have died, along with the smaller fish that live there and the bigger fish that eat the smaller fish.

    I am reminded of the proverb in the Bible, "the wise man built his house upon a rock, and the foolish man built his house upon the sand".  The EAA and the people who live and work there have built their house upon the sand.  No dike or system of canals would protect them if something like the 1926 or 1928 hurricane hit today.

    Marjory Stoneman Douglas wrote a book titled The Everglades: River of Grass.  She was not kidding, the area South of the lake is not a stagnant swamp it is a flowing river.  Trying to dam it up is a fools errand like building a house upon the sand.

    The Hoover Dike not only increases the chance of a disaster if a hurricane large enough to breach it hits it causes many other problems.  Pollution from North of the lake use to flow through the lake and the water would be naturally cleaned before flowing into the Everglades and Florida Bay.  Now that pollution is held in the lake and sinks to the bottom where there is a thick layer of polluted mud, a problem that would be mitigated if water freely flowed from the lake.  Water freely flowing from the lake would also replenish the Biscayne Aquifer in a more natural manner.

    As for the Biscayne Aquifer itself the biggest problem it faces is over use from over pumping water for both city and agricultural use.  Lowered water tables, primarily from over-pumping, have allowed salt water intrusion reducing the size of the aquifer.  While there is not universal consensus on rising sea levels (lets not argue over which side is right on this) there is no disagreement that the water table is lower than it has ever been and salt water intrusion is increasing.  Both the lower water table and salt water intrusion have resulted in Land Subsidence

    Bottom line is eliminating the EAA and the Hoover Dike would go a long way to solving many water management problems not to mention saving a lot of money as an extra added attraction.  Of course the fact that so many people have built their house upon the sand is a problem that will only be resolved by a disaster.

    Parent

    All true, all too late (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Michael Masinter on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 02:06:24 PM EST
    All of what you say about the history of the Hoover dike is true, but removing it now, filling in the associated canals, and restoring the true natural flow would destroy so much of inhabitable south Florida as to be legally impossible.  And there's the problem of all that phosphorous in the lake; the everglades depend on water that is virtually free of phosphates; sawgrass thrives without phosphates, but add phosphates and cattails will quickly clog up the glades.  So even if the dike were removed and sheet flow restored, the phosphates would ruin the glades.

    One quibble: The South Florida Water Management District and the Corps control back pumping. The practice benefits big sugar, but also protects homeowners in the south shore towns. Record dry season rains in January triggered backpumping, and that led to the release last month along with the same phosphate pollution that would destroy the glades were it released to the south.

    Unfortunately, there's no way to turn back the clock to 1900 without a DeLorean.

    Parent

    Your the one (none / 0) (#105)
    by ragebot on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 09:13:36 PM EST
    who said in x number of years the whole place will be under water anyway; unless a 1928 strength hurricane hits first and floods out all the peeps who are living in what is a swamp that requires ACE to maintain pumping stations and canals to make the swamp livable.  Back in the 1950s when I was growing up in Miami we use to use airboats West of town in places that are subdivisions now.

    It's not nice to try fool Mother Nature.

    Parent

    We're not quite there yet. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 06:14:53 PM EST
    But the last plantation on Maui shuts down for good this fall. The most noticeable effect for most residents will be the end of the cane burnings, which filled the air with ash that would blow for miles, and a pungent aroma that was so sickeningly sweet it could induce nausea if you weren't used to it. And honestly, nobody should've ever had to have gotten used to any of that. Good riddance.

    Parent
    Sugar is a great source of alcohol (none / 0) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 07:49:08 PM EST
    and could/should replace corn, which millions of third world residents are paying more for a basic food substance because we use it to make ethanol.

    Of course the only politician that has opposed subsidies for it was....gasp!...Cruz.

    Parent

    Cruz.. (none / 0) (#17)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 08:26:53 PM EST
    who'd prefer not to waste time burning cane fields when their are so many faggots left to burn.

    Parent
    I'm sure that extra g (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 08:55:53 PM EST
    Was just a typeo

    Parent
    We looked at cane-based biofuel production. (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 09:31:23 PM EST
    The only way it's presently feasible is with significant government subsidies. Otherwise, it's not financially viable business or industry.

    Parent
    Sugar imports are limited (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 08:18:00 AM EST
    who does that help outside of the corn farmers?

    Sugarcane-based ethanol has an energy balance that is 7 times greater than that of corn-based ethanol. Energy balance is the difference between the energy expended to convert the crop into ethanol and the amount of energy released from its consumption

    Link

    Parent

    Sugar quotas (none / 0) (#68)
    by ragebot on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 12:38:00 PM EST
    RIP, Elie Wiesel (1928-2016). (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 06:40:09 PM EST
    The famed author, Holocaust survivor and Nobel laureate has died at age 87, it was reported by Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial.

    Wiesel's universally acclaimed and haunting memoir "Night" was the first book to describe in detail the horrors of the German death camps from a harrowing first-person perspective of a survivor. First published in 1958, it is on the reading lists of numerous high school and college courses.

    In 2008, the Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity announced that it had lost $15 billion of its endowment, which it had invested with now-convicted Ponzi schemer Bernard Madoff, and that its founder and his wife had further lost their entire life's savings. In a television interview, Wiesel denounced Madoff as a sociopath but then quietly chuckled and said, "But I must admit, I've seen worse."

    Aloha to a determined yet gentle soul.

    Wiesel's Foundation lost $15.2M. (none / 0) (#66)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 12:23:51 PM EST
    Thank you for the clarification / correction. (none / 0) (#86)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 04:05:13 PM EST
    The foundation received donations (none / 0) (#101)
    by ding7777 on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 07:37:06 PM EST
    Elie Wiesel, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and Boston University professor, lost millions in his Foundation for Humanity but received a flood of donations that replenished the fund.

    Also, the Madoff bankruptcy trustee in charge of recouping money for investors has paid back 57 cents on the dollar for investments greater than
    $1,161,193.87

    Parent

    Bonjour, (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by ExPatObserver on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 10:55:16 PM EST
    I am in Paris for a few days, for the first time since 1981! Lots to see.

    Trump's Star of David tweet was really something.
    He also tweeted that "sources say" Clinton won't be indicted? I have heard that for months, but is there new talk?

    That's Donald making one (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 08:05:16 AM EST
    Of his famous "predictions".  He knows she will not be indicted.  We know it.  But his fans think its eminent.   You don't have to go far to find them.  Unfortunately.

    But now he will go on for months about how he "correctly predicted" she would not be indicted and his mouth breathing acolytes wil be amazed.  

    "How knew.  He just knew!  It's amazing"

    Parent

    Maureen Dowd (July 3) (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 11:28:58 AM EST
    provides her usual phoned-in type column, but today's is, for me, a sad one.  Not only for journalism or whatever it is she does, but also, for her.

      Miss Dowd attempts to weave a number of issues and people into a story, yielding a rambling and disjointed product that taps into Oscar Wilde, her Saturday night dinner, Brexit, Cameron, Johnson, and Trump.  Of these, Wilde comes out ahead. And, of course, it would not be MoDo without a dig at Mrs. Clinton, and she does not disappoint, although you do have to wait until the very last line--which is a good thing, since few besides me will get that far.

    But what gave pause and sadness, was her Paris story: Having completed "work" in France she stopped in Paris for the weekend. Being chronically afraid to go out alone to a restaurant she ate snacks out of the mini-bar, washed down with white wine.

     But, finally, on Saturday night, she braved a trip to her hotel's dining room.  After a cold reception, everything warmed up, except the wine, and it was not all that bad.  And, it gave her inspiration for her melange of a column, including Oscar Wilde since he died at her hotel. The writings of a lonely woman, makes me want to read her just so she can keep her job. But, I will lie down and wait for that feeling to pass.

    Parent

    You read MoDo (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 11:44:35 AM EST
    I will watch With All Due Respect and occaisionally MTP and we will trade.

    Deal?

    Parent

    Deal. (none / 0) (#62)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 11:53:03 AM EST
    I do read MoDo, have a soft spot (probably in my head) for her as being an early critic of W. et al. When that was not so popular.

    Parent
    It will be interesting to see (none / 0) (#57)
    by christinep on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 11:24:16 AM EST
    what emphasis survives this transition period.  Will Trump be able to do the Yet Another Conspiracy Drone ("the system is rigged" motif) OR will the Emphasis on the Career Professionals at Justice and their ultimate recommendation(s) prevail.

     Assuming--as you & I do in this matter--a decision not to prosecute any in State for email management issues, I hope that the public agrees with the latter emphasis.  Career professionals as neutral and experienced are typically supported by decision-makers (and, ultimately, the public.) Thoughts to myself: Ironic that the short tarmac confab by two very smart, knowledgeable people may well result in a more trusted outcome--despite the predicted conspiracy theories that could have been expected from Repubs in any event--than if the political appointee was seen as directing the recommendations. Fascinating.

    Parent

    Paris (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 08:12:39 AM EST
    If you've never done it, or even if you have maybe, take one of those boat ride tours on the river.  When I was there the person I was visiting who lived there suggested it and I thought it sounded lame and touristy but it was quite wonderful.   So many beautiful things on the river.

    I recommend that, Notre Dame and the Louvre.  On LSD.  Ah, the 70s.

    Parent

    My favorite thing in Paris (if it is possible to (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Cashmere on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:49:02 AM EST
    have just one)... St. Chapelle

    http://tinyurl.com/paris-st-chapelle

    Parent

    Yes, that was one of my favorites (none / 0) (#154)
    by Towanda on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 05:56:30 PM EST
    when I finally made it to Paris.  Some in our group missed it, not having done the research for what to see beyond the standard sites.

    They also missed Ile St. Louis, tied for favorite in Paris for me.  I recommend a few hours there, walking every block of it in half an hour or so -- and then relaxing in a cafe on the Seine, with espresso and wonderful people-watching.

    Parent

    Agree. Nighttime. (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 03:15:46 PM EST
    Among the newest places, (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 11:06:36 AM EST
    be sure to go to the Louis Vuitton Foundation, at the Jardin d'Acclimation, Bois de Bouilogne (16th).
    Magnificent architecture by Frank Gehry of a private/city museum funded by the richest man in France, Bernard Arnault, chair of LVMH, the luxury goods firm. The collection includes M. Arnault's private holdings as well as other exhibits.  But it is  the building, itself, that most deserves a visit.

    Parent
    I'm jealous. (none / 0) (#29)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 02:37:35 AM EST
    Paris is magical. Have fun and enjoy.

    Parent
    The chocolate mousse (none / 0) (#164)
    by MKS on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 08:48:27 PM EST
    Oh, nobody (none / 0) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 04:53:08 AM EST
    with a brain ever thought that she was going to be indicted but it's now the justice department and the FBI leaking the same to the press and that the report will be out within two weeks stating so.

    The GOP has gotten caught with their pants down twice this week. They have lied and lied and lied. and they have gotten more and more bizarre with their conspiracy theories.

    Parent

    Thanks (none / 0) (#33)
    by ExPatObserver on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 04:57:06 AM EST
    Do you have a link to stories about new rumors?

    Parent
    about halfway (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 05:57:06 AM EST
    down this article link

    Parent
    Amusez-vous bien! (none / 0) (#38)
    by Nemi on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 07:02:47 AM EST
    Did you also see how he/his campaign later, after a lot of bickering online about whether it was a Star of David or just any old star, tried to literally cover up the star? The tips of a couple of the star points still visible though. :)

    Parent
    I am there in spirit (none / 0) (#48)
    by ragebot on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 08:36:09 AM EST
    Who else is watching the Tour.

    Parent
    The Tour de France (none / 0) (#49)
    by fishcamp on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 08:51:57 AM EST
    is simply amazing to watch on TV.  The race, of course, is very competitive and exciting, with terrific coverage, but the helicopter shots are by far the best for viewing the French countryside.  They often circle castles where people are dressed in medieval costumes waving flags and banners.  A few times i've seen jousters mounted and ready to charge, when the helicopter passes by.  Unfortunately the bicycle race airs at the same time as Wimbledon.  

    Parent
    Thats what Al Gore (none / 0) (#69)
    by ragebot on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 12:43:37 PM EST
    invented VCRs for.  Of course the cool kids record in digital now.  But ever since Sony v Universal everyone has been doing it.

    Parent
    Chris finishes tenth (none / 0) (#54)
    by ragebot on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 10:29:05 AM EST
    in stage 2 as Peter wins as the peloton catches the breakaway in the last 500 meters.

    Parent
    Trump's Star of David (none / 0) (#73)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 12:57:40 PM EST
    anti-semitic tweet was traced back to a neo-Nazi, white supremacist site. Criticism of Mrs. Clinton, with a backdrop of $100 bills plastered on the wall, and the Star of David inscribed with corrupt Hillary, was called "political correctness," by Corey Lewandowski.

     Objections to such loud and despicable "dog whistles" are what the Republicans call political correctness. And, among loves they hold for Trump--he tells it like it is.  Of course, the tweet was removed, sort of.  A circle with the same inscription was haphazardly pasted over the Star of David, although a couple of the Star's points peak out from the circle.  

    Parent

    A minor correction, perhaps (none / 0) (#79)
    by christinep on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 02:31:07 PM EST
    The use of the Star of David against a background of $$$$ is much more than a dog-whistle.  You are too kind, KeysDan. My only question is: Which racial, ethnic, religious or other minority group has deadbeat Don not offended/belittled/rejected?

    In Denver the other day--as he spoke to a Conservative Summit where there were hundreds of empty seats--the deadbeat even continued a diatribe against Colorado Repubs (who had earlier given him zero delegates while allotting T. Cruz all the delegates in their primary process.) He continued to complain against those whose votes he seeks .... A new way to win friends & influence people, I suppose :)  Oh, he did finally appoint a state director in this battleground state where HRC has been building her ground organization for @10 months.  

    Parent

    My favorite memory of Paris has always been (none / 0) (#80)
    by christinep on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 02:40:32 PM EST
    sore but very happy feet.  We walked & walked & walked (and sometimes took the metro) & walked & ate in neighborhood place where a bar dominated the first floor and small wooden tables adorned with white linen plus a tall rose-red rose and beautiful food served for a luxuriating supper accompanied by the owner's pregnant dog ... & walked the more.  

     

    Parent

    How American Politics Went Insane (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 11:13:49 AM EST
    after watching a conversation with the author on MTP I read this.

    He makes a powerful argument for superdelegates and more.  I can't say I agreed with every idea but it's a powerful read.

    I read (none / 0) (#64)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 12:14:05 PM EST
    this the other day and it was a great article. Yes, he makes the point it seems to me that we actually need MORE closed primaries because we have too many people who don't have any skin in the game and think politically that blowing things up is the way to go.

    Parent
    In other news... (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by desertswine on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 05:42:41 PM EST
    Juno closes in on Jupiter, exciting for all us space buffs.

    So cool (none / 0) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 05:46:53 PM EST
    I'm there

    Parent
    How many... (none / 0) (#3)
    by NycNate on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 06:28:26 PM EST
    Murders in Chicago over the 3 day weekend?  It is sad. But I've actually heard people taking wagers on the number of shootings/killings.

    And your point is -- what, exactly? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 06:43:01 PM EST
    Apparently some savants higher up (none / 0) (#7)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 07:05:20 PM EST
    in the conservative food chain determined awhile back that Chicago was the only city in the entire U.S with a gun violence problem worthy of public ackowledgment and concern..

    Parent
    Really (none / 0) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 07:08:18 PM EST
    what is the obsession with Chicago? They act like gun violence never happens anywhere else in the country.

    Parent
    Obama's adopted hometown, dontcha know (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by ruffian on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 06:02:46 AM EST
    he is responsible for everything the happens there?

    Parent
    Chicago Tribunes view (none / 0) (#46)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 08:25:20 AM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/z77387y

    But in Chicago, another type of bloodshed occurred that weekend, without much notice except to those directly affected by it or living on streets where it occurred. By the time the weekend was over, 30 people had been shot -- one every 96 minutes -- and four of them were dead.

     Six months of shootings in Chicago
    At the midpoint of 2016, violence in Chicago is at levels not seen since the 1990s. Shootings alone have climbed to over 1,900 in just six months. (Chicago Tribune)
    That wasn't an especially violent weekend here. It was more or less the norm for this time of year, when warm temperatures pull people outdoors, increasing the chances of vicious encounters.

    Thus far in 2016, more than 1,950 people have been hit by bullets in Chicago, including most of the 315 homicide victims. "We have an Orlando every month in Chicago, and no one seems to raise an eyebrow," Dean Angelo, president of Chicago's Fraternal Order of Police, said the other day.

    Those are sobering numbers. But they're just numbers. The reality behind them is terror, agony and soul-shredding grief. The deaths erase the lives of some Chicagoans and leave others with pain, fear and regret that will never go away.

    Most of those struck down are young men in poor neighborhoods plagued by gangs, where minor disputes can turn deadly in an instant

    Parent

    The State of Louisiana is much worse. (none / 0) (#9)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 07:33:18 PM EST
    In incidents of murder by firearms per capita, the rate in Illinois (2.8 / 100,000) is a little more than one-third that in Bayou Country (7.7 / 100,000). Its rate is also lower than that in Missouri (5.5 / 100,000), Mississippi (4.2 / 100,000), South Carolina (4.5), Georgia (3.8) and Arizona (3.6).

    The states where you're least likely to be shot and killed are Vermont (0.3 / 100,000), New Hampshire (0.4), Hawaii (0.5) and North Dakota (0.6).

    The states whose populations have the highest rates of registered gun ownership are Alaska (61%), Wyoming (59%), Montana (56%) and West Virgina (55%). The lowest rates are found in Hawaii (6%), Massachusetts (11%) and New Jersey (13%).

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Can't you spell Chicago?? (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 07:58:52 PM EST
    And don't you think it is the rest of the state that is keeping them at 2.8?

    And BTW, is that the homicide rate or is the murder rate?

    But I will give you Chicago and toss in Memphis which is on its way back to its country leading position as Murder Capitol which it took away from Detroit.

    The similarity between all these cities is years and years of being run by machine politics of the Democratic nature.

    Parent

    "The similarity of all these cities.." (none / 0) (#15)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 08:16:28 PM EST
    proving, as many have suspected, that this reptitive flogging of the Chicago talking point was never really about concern for victims of violence, but just a way to score underhanded, cheap political points.

    Parent
    That's the murder rate by firearms. (none / 0) (#19)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 09:08:26 PM EST
    The overall murder rate in Louisiana is actually 10.4 / 100,000.

    word "capitol" is used in reference to a building.

    Regarding that scurrilous den of Democratic iniquity, Chicago, here are a few more statistics for you to chew on. By itself, the Chicago economy is bigger than that of Switzerland, with a total economic output for the year 2014 of $643 billion. In fact, the Chicago metropolitan area accounts for 82% of the entire GDP for the State of Illinois.

    So, in other words, the Democratic city folks in Chicago subsidize their whiney-a$$ed Republican country brethren in the boondocks. But that's hardly surprising, because economies tend to thrive under Democratic leadership. When Republicans are in charge, not so much.

    Ciao for now.

    Parent

    Yes, the coke business on the south side (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 08:20:50 AM EST
    of Chicago is booming.

    And if Demo leadership is so great for cities why are they falling apart?

    Parent

    Chicago is not "falling apart." (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 04:18:24 PM EST
    By itself, it's the 21st largest economy in the world. Your second-hand right-wing clichés don't amount to fact just because repeat them ad nauseum.

    Parent
    Despite all this (none / 0) (#89)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 04:31:32 PM EST
    McDonalds and others are moving corporate HQ to Chicago

    http://tinyurl.com/hl8nu9n

    Last year its credit rating was cut to junk status. Chicago has the lowest grade among all major U.S. cities, except for formerly bankrupt Detroit.

    While it remains the nation's third-largest city, with 2.7 million people, fast-growing Houston, with 2.3 million, has grown by 200,000 since 2010 and threatens its status.

    The number of homicides is up 54 percent over last year through the end of May, with shootings up 53 percent, according to the Chicago Police Department.

    In addition to pension debts, which prompted Mayor Rahm Emanuel to push through the city's largest property-tax hike last October, the deficit-riddled schools face insolvency as an almost year-old state budget stalemate stalls efforts to pump more money into the system.



    Parent
    If Repub leadership (none / 0) (#123)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:35:32 AM EST
    is so great for red states, why can't they read and write or trundle down the block without huffing and puffing and reaching for a bag of pork rinds?

    Parent
    Maher (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:45:00 AM EST
    laboratories of democracy

    He does an excellent job of addressing this using CA with its top to bottom democratic governance.

    Parent

    You're playing games (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 09:13:21 AM EST
    If you have 100,000 people and 10 murders  you have a rate of 10 per 100,000. But if you have 10 in a population of 200,000 then the rate is 5.....  Rates don't tell the story.

    The year-end crime statistics showed there were 468 murders in Chicago in 2015 compared with 416 the year before, a 12.5% increase, as well as 2,900 shootings--13% more than the year prior, and up 29% since 2013. Chicago had more homicides than any other city in 2015, according to the Chicago Tribune.Jan 2, 2016

    Time

    And to paraphrase Curly, the year ain't over yet.

    Thus far in 2016, more than 1,950 people have been hit by bullets in Chicago, including most of the 315 homicide victims. "We have an Orlando every month in Chicago, and no one seems to raise an eyebrow," Dean Angelo, president of Chicago's Fraternal Order of Police, said the other day.

    ChicagoTribune

    The question should be, "Why the increase?"

    Maybe this the answer.

    There is a feeling among police officers, Angelo says, "that no one wants to be on that next video."

     

    Parent
    Chi has more... (none / 0) (#10)
    by NycNate on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 07:39:06 PM EST
    Murders than NYC & LA combined. America's second city is being destroyed. That is a story to me.

    Parent
    Would you say the same about St. Louis? (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 09:23:43 PM EST
    That it "is being destroyed"? After all, the murder rate in both St. Louis and East St. Louis, IL is actually much higher than that of Chicago, as are the murder rates in New Orleans, Detroit, Baltimore, Baton Rouge and Newark. In fact, if one looks at the murder rates in incorporated municipalities with a population of 25,000 or more, Chicago doesn't even crack the top 30.

    Parent
    Chicago isn't being destroyed (none / 0) (#13)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 08:02:35 PM EST
    any more than St Louis and Baltimore and Detroit are being destroyed.

    Parent
    Well, that's a cheerful thought! (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 08:13:02 PM EST
    We're all equally bad!

    Parent
    But not so bad that they couldn't (none / 0) (#16)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 08:20:34 PM EST
    use a few more guns..

    Congratulations though Jim, for expanding your horizens and learning about other cities in the U.S besides Chicago.

    Parent

    Detroit has been destroyed (none / 0) (#31)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 03:14:21 AM EST
    It is currently trying to rebuild

    After finally throwing off the yokes of corrupt politicians

    Chicago, and Illinois are both dead broke,

    Only a matter of time before they go for bankruptcy

    Unless anyone sees a better way.

    They did come up with a way to maybe save the states finances, but that got reversed in court, if I remember correctly


    Parent

    Kansas will go broke before Illinois does (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 07:03:14 AM EST
    Probably not (none / 0) (#40)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 07:52:32 AM EST
    Kansas can be fixed easily, Illinois, the only way to fix it was reversed by the courts. Illinois is getting worse every year, and will continue to do so until they file for bankruptcy.

    http://tinyurl.com/jbtscxg

    llinois collects more than $3,000 per capita in state and local taxes each year, one of the highest per capita tax revenues. Yet, the state's fiscal management system does not appear to be operating optimally, which is the main reason it ranks as the second worst-run state. For example, Illinois has one of the smallest rainy day funds compared to other states, at 1% of its general annual budget -- an indication the state may not be able to satisfy its short-term obligations. Illinois' debt is equal to more than three-fourths of its annual revenue, also one of the highest shares in the nation. Similarly, the state's pension fund is not financially healthy. The state only has assets on hand to meet 39% of its pension obligations, the lowest ratio of any state. Perhaps as a result of the state's finances, Illinois has the worst credit rating and outlook from S&P and Moody's of any state.

    R

    Parent

    Kansas (none / 0) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 09:54:04 AM EST
    is a complete and utter disaster. It's the perfect example of what happens when conservatives completely rule a state. Michigan with citizens being poisoned is another perfect example of conservative government. Your link is just bizarre the way it ranks states.

    Illinois has a lot of people making it easier to fix. The population of Kansas does not have the numbers nor the advantages of Illinois. Kansas is also a much poorer state. The Kansas school system used to be one of its shining stars and the Republicans have completely trashed it taking away the hopes of many of getting ahead in life.  

    Parent

    They tell you (none / 0) (#70)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 12:45:37 PM EST
    The worst-run states also tend to have weak fiscal management, reflected by low pension funding, sparsely padded coffers, and poor credit ratings from Moody's Investors Service and Standard & Poor's (S&P). Illinois, the second worst-run state in America, received lower ratings than any other state from both agencies. By contrast, the majority of the 10 best-run states have perfect ratings from both agencies.

    Illinois is toast. Their pension debt is poorly financed, destined to perpetually rise, with no end in sight.
    Kansas can be fixed.
    Michigan, lol, those poor people were poisoned by Democrats, their local leaders decided to switch water supply companies. And the EPA refused to warn them after testing the water. Oh, there are NO free passes to anyone, local , state or federal authorities in Michigan

    Parent
    You guys (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 12:55:22 PM EST
    said the same thing about California. You said it was the end of California, it was done, bankrupt. But like everything else in life conservatives and Republicans seem to always be wrong and their predictions have been 100% wrong. So mostly the rest of us who reside outside the realm of the wingnut welfare bubble just mostly laugh at you guys.

    Parent
    You really (none / 0) (#75)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Think Illinois can come back?
    good for you

    Parent
    Of course, Illinois can come back. (none / 0) (#90)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 04:45:13 PM EST
    Its robust economy is bigger than Russia's, and the Chicago metropolitan area is one of our country's most significant economic engines and drivers.

    What an absurd thing it is, Trevor, which you and the far right are pondering and desiring. Is your perspective so warped by your partisanship that you'd cheer for the collapse and failure of a major American state, simply because its politics tends to lean Democratic?

    What in the hell's the matter with you guys? Do you even have a clue how badly that would hurt GOP-leaning states in the Midwest and Great Plains, all of which rely upon Chicago as THE major transportation hub and portal to facilitate the shipment of their goods to market, to say nothing of that city's role as a major source of business capital and financing?

    :-(

    Parent

    Why do you (none / 0) (#94)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 05:13:41 PM EST
    Lace  your comments with your rabid partisanship?
    No one wishes for or desires Chicago or Illinois to collapse. It appears fundamentally corrupt politically (check the convictions of Illinois politicians, although my state is rapidly catching up, thank you Preet) and financially bereft.
    Yes, Chicago is needed as a major hub for the entire region, but some of these factors may be insurmountable.
    They are broke, pension costs will continually increase, and they cannot borrow, unless they pay higher interest costs.
    They actually tried to reign in their pension expense but courts threw out their remedy. They are in deep ca ca

    Last year its credit rating was cut to junk status. Chicago has the lowest grade among all major U.S. cities, except for formerly bankrupt Detroit.

    In addition to pension debts, which prompted Mayor Rahm Emanuel to push through the city's largest property-tax hike last October, the deficit-riddled schools face insolvency as an almost year-old state budget stalemate stalls efforts to pump more money into the system.


    Parent
    That's just nonsense. Getting louder and more hyperbolic with your wingbat scenarios doesn't render what you're saying any less stupid.

    Parent
    Wrong (none / 0) (#76)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 01:12:08 PM EST
    as usual, It was a Republican appointed emergency manager in charge of Flint.  Even they balked at switching the system but apparently were overruled from higher up in the State government. LINK

    Parent
    The local politicians (none / 0) (#77)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 01:26:07 PM EST
    Wanted the change, the emergency manager complied with their wishes

    Parent
    And how did they get (none / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 03:18:50 PM EST
    to the point of needing an "emergency manager?"

    Parent
    Multiple (none / 0) (#84)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 03:53:07 PM EST
    economic and political forces, nobody is blameless.
    However, the locals were relatively helpless in the face of the general decline of rust belt amplified by tax cutting and austerity budgets by the Republicans.

    Parent
    Ah, so it was the evileeeeee (none / 0) (#91)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 04:48:17 PM EST
    Republicans....

    Why did I ever think otherwise?

    lol

    Parent

    How many times do we have to go over this (none / 0) (#136)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 11:30:52 AM EST
    The word is "eeevil".

    Try this: think of Boris Karloff and Vincent Price and imagine the letters composed of green dripping candle wax.

    Parent

    Okay, Trevor. How would you fix Kansas? (none / 0) (#107)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 11:01:59 PM EST
    But first, please explain to us exactly what you believe its problems to be, which need fixing.

    This ought to be rich.

    Parent

    The problem with (none / 0) (#47)
    by ragebot on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 08:33:26 AM EST
    claims like this is what I will call artificial boundaries.  There are safe neighborhoods in any city and their are dangerous neighborhoods in any city.  Most big cities have walled gated neighborhoods sometimes with private security that often have very low crime rates and at the other extreme there are neighborhoods that LEOs simply avoid.  To try and average the safe and dangerous neighborhoods in a city to obtain one number to describe the crime rate distorts reality.

    Back in grad school I was using census data and crime rates in a regression analysis.  The best predictor of crime rate was the number of flush toilets in a household.  If you think about it that makes sense.  If a household has six flush toilets it probably has an alarm system and perhaps dedicated security as well.  On the other hand if a household only has one flush toilet, or in some cases is sharing a flush toilet with another household that is an indication of a general lack of resources making a better target for crime.

    On my visits to the Windy City I stay with a friend who lives one block from North Lake Shore Drive, quite a safe place with little crime.  On the other hand I know there are many areas in Chicago where I would avoid.  It seems silly to use the same number to describe crime in both places.

    Parent

    That's true (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 12:15:45 PM EST
    And there are web sites that show crime by neighborhood...which real estate agents use...I can't wait for the ACLU to start suing claiming that is discriminating.

    And neighborhoods change. Back in the early 60's when I was stationed in Millington we lived in a north Memphis neighborhood. Middle class. Low crime. Now the same neighborhood looks like a third world country.

    What happened? There are lots of theories. If you want to say that the neighborhood, and the city, became predominately black, which is true, you're a racist.

    If you want to say that the black population was poor with few opportunities, which is true, then you're a liberal.

    If you want to say that the whites fled to the burbs because they feared collapsing schools, crime and dope, which happened, then you're honest.

    The common thread for all of these is poverty and dope...and a society...north, east, west and south that didn't trust each other.

    Parent

    Lol (none / 0) (#71)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 12:49:02 PM EST
    I gentrified Williamsburgh Brooklyn back in the early 1980's. Oh boy, came home one night and found my car sitting without tires, lol.
    went back to Williamsburgh last summer to see a Shins concert in Williamsburgh Park, OMG. Shoulda would coulda...walked around post concert around my old neighborhood, WOW

    Parent
    And I'm laughing (none / 0) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 06:51:21 PM EST
    laughing laughing at our email concern trolls right now who have spent legions of time making prediction after prediction. There never was anything to the story but yet the gullible ones fell for it time and again.

    attendees at Clinton's interview yesterday (none / 0) (#74)
    by Green26 on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 01:02:37 PM EST
    "Accompanying Mrs. Clinton into the meeting were her lawyer David E. Kendall; Cheryl D. Mills and Heather Samuelson, longtime aides who are also lawyers; and two lawyers from Mr. Kendall's firm, Williams & Connolly, Katherine Turner and Amy Saharia.

    Eight officials from the F.B.I. and the Department of Justice conducted the interview, ...."

    3.5 hour interview at FBI headquarters.

    From yesterday's NY Times article.

    Ga6, I take it that you believe the FBI/DOJ will close the investigation without charging anyone? I will continue to not make any predictions.

    While I can't see anything that would require charges, we don't have all the information and we don't know what's in the heads of the senior FBI and DOJ people. I would hope that in this very important situation that the FBI/DOJ would use a very high standard for determining whether charges are warranted and the presumption would be against charges. I can't imagine that Hillary would get charged based on what is visible in the press, but the aide Pagliano, who set up and maintained the server, has taken the 5th. That may only be on the advice of counsel to protect himself, and not because he did anything to merit charges. On the other hand, I wonder what the FBI has been doing for so long, and wonder if there could be problematical things that have not surfaced in the press or if there have been missteps by those interviewed, or contradictory statements. The recent statement by the AG would seem to have taken all or most of the politics out of the decision.

    I have always wondered if the "compromise" would be to charge an aide and not Clinton. Some people think the FBI/DOJ may end up issuing some sort of statement or report, which might have some substance or criticism. Not sure they will do that, or say much if they do.

    Parent

    Yearlong investigations (none / 0) (#81)
    by christinep on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 02:54:12 PM EST
    are not that unusual where issues are complex.  I'm sure that you can appreciate the coordination of numerous Sate & former State Dept. individuals--including HRC--as well as DOJ only as one aspect.  The matter of the role & relationship of two different IGs with known differing views as to determining confidentiality (as well as the differing guidelines in differing depts.) can take a while to digest. (Heck, I've participated in DOJ-related inquiries where a moderate-type case involved a handful of attorneys on each side as well as other essential staff.  David Kendall, btw, is a well-respected & longtime personal attorney for Clinton ... he definitely knows what he is doing.)

    The fact that the spotlight of the process now goes to the seasoned career DOJ team together with the FBI's Director Comey should increase the trust level of the American polity.  

    Parent

    I love Howard (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 04:30:44 PM EST

    "Should it not have been done?" Witt pressed. "Should Bill Clinton have known better? Should Loretta Lynch have known better?"

    "Maybe they should have known better, maybe all kinds of things should have happened," Dean replied. "Can't we starting talking about issues that effect the American people in this campaign? How long is this going to go on? When are we going to talk about substance? When are we going to talk about jobs? When are we going to talk about healthcare? When are we going to talk about education? When are we going to talk about prison reform?"

    "When Bill Clinton stops doing unforced errors," Percio insisted.

    "Nonsense!" Dean exclaimed. "This is crap. We ought be talking about serious stuff, not who did what to who. The reason this happens is because the right wing has got nothing on the Clintons, and all they can do is make up stuff like this."



    Parent
    'Love that excerpt, howdy, and (none / 0) (#92)
    by christinep on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 04:56:19 PM EST
    love Howard Dean's attitude/response here. (I almost jumped up with a "yes" yell, and knocked the keyboard to my lap reading the excerpt you provided.) Thanks.

    Well, the answer to Howard's question about when-are-the-media going to turn to substance instead of the scandal-seeking, ratings driven nothingness that all of this is or has become: Nowhere on the horizon, maybe never in a lifetime.  What I do expect, however, after these programmed several days of it-is-HRC's turn-to-be-hit again, that the flow will return to the deep divide so raw and evident in the Repub party as their convention grows closer AND, of course, the big problems for Donald Trump.  The TV media have so many Trump-issues & Trump-problems to choose from that they may have to flip a coin to choose one to hammer when his media turn to receive the negative lens comes about the end of the week.  

    Yoiks! I'm such a media cynic.

    Parent

    Yes, Kendall is a terrific and respected lawyer (none / 0) (#85)
    by Green26 on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 04:04:18 PM EST
    Has represented the Clintons since Whitewater. Rhodes Scholar and clerked for Justice White. Met Clintons as Yale law school, I believe. The Williams Connelly firm is terrific and very strong in white collar criminal defense and investigations. I see that the 2 other WC lawyers look pretty smart too. One clerked for the Supreme Court. Duke and Harvard law.

    Was probably very interesting for them to attend this historic interview. They probably knew the facts as well or better than anyone in the room.

    Parent

    What's so "historic" about it? (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 05:11:18 PM EST
    President George W. Bush was questioned by the FBI during his 2004 re-election campaign at the behest of Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, regarding his administration's leak of CIA officer Valerie Plame's identity to the late Chicago Sun-Times columnist Robert Novak in June 2003, who then disclosed it publicly in his column and blew her cover.

    And just this year, Gov. Chris Christie -- who, let's please remember, was then a major candidate for the GOP presidential nomination -- was questioned at length by U.S. Attorney Paul Fishman and FBI investigators who examining both the unnecessary rush hour lane closures at the Ft. Lee onramp to the George Washington Bridge, and his own administration's alleged attempted shakedown of Hoboken, NJ's mayor on behalf of development interests.

    So, yesterday's 3-hour FBI interview with Hillary Clinton was hardly unprecedented. Those media pundits who are presently saying otherwise either have extraordinarily short term memories for people in their profession, or they are being deliberately disingenuous for obvious reasons.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    If you can't see that the interview was historic, (2.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Green26 on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 12:43:39 AM EST
    then I'm not sure anyone will be able to show you the light on that one. Google whether it's historic. You'll find some articles and comments.

    From Hotair, "The historic candidacy of Hillary Clinton became even more historic yesterday when the former Secretary of State became the first major party candidate for the presidency to be interviewed by the FBI as the subject of a potential criminal investigation."

    Parent

    And as I had just informed you, Green, ... (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 01:42:01 PM EST
    ... pundits like HotAir are wrong. Do you even read people's posts in their entirety before responding? Mrs. Clinton is NOT the first. Both President George W. Bush and Gov. Chris Christie were interviewed by the FBI regarding active -- not potential -- criminal investigations over the Plame leak and the GW Bridge closure, respectively, while they were both actively campaigning for the presidency. Further, both those investigations resulted in criminal indictments of close associates.

    Parent
    Hot Air is your source? (none / 0) (#112)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 07:25:32 AM EST
    That figures, and no wonder. (none / 0) (#140)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 01:29:06 PM EST
    One of these light years, perhaps he'll finally realize that opinion is not fact.

    Parent
    UPDATE: "Historic interview." (none / 0) (#178)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 05, 2016 at 12:59:26 PM EST
    No criminal charges, Green. Just like we've been telling you for months now.

    Parent
    In this instance, (none / 0) (#95)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 05:22:54 PM EST
    it would be politically untenable for Mrs. Clinton to refuse an interview with the FBI.

     But, in a general sense, usually, an interview is unacceptable and is often quite risky, and, therefore, counsel often advises against it. And, for sure, to do so without counsel and awareness of status (ie. subject or target). It is possible for one to enter the interview as a non-criminal and exit as a possible criminal. Title 18 USC Section 100l makes it a crime to lie to an FBI agent.

     Even with great counsel, problems can arise as was the case with Martha Stewart who had counsel by her side when interviewed by SEC and FBI.  You are entitled to take the 5th, but not entitled to lie--even on minor issues.  And, that definition can be a complicated matter. So, while you are bound to to tell the truth, you are bound not to lie. But, you can remain silent.  Actually, I do have a problem with the fairness of 18 USC 1001 as well potential for administrative misuse.

    Parent

    Not sure (none / 0) (#106)
    by ragebot on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 09:18:08 PM EST
    Hillary could take the 5th without taking a big hit politically.

    Parent
    Agreed. it would not (none / 0) (#139)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 01:20:24 PM EST
    be politically tenable for Mrs. Clinton to decline an interview or take the 5th amendment.  Of course, as we know, Mrs. Clinton has, from the get go, cooperated with the FBI investigation and urged staff members to do the same.

     Which they have, although Bryan Pagliano, the staff member who set up the server, has received immunity at some level at the insistence of his own counsel.  The interviews are voluntary since there is, to our knowledge, no grand jury to subpoena witnesses. The FBI does not have subpoena power, let alone authority to charge for a crime (a prosecutor or grand jury--grand jury only can indict).

    Mrs. Clinton, in effect, does not have the recourse available to all other citizens, but still runs risks inherent to 18 USC 1001. While Mrs. Clinton is a subject of, or witness to, the investigation, it is unlikely that she is a target--that there is substantial evidence linking her to a crime.

     Unlikely, owing to the requirement that she knew, and intentionally, that she crossed lines, intuiting classifications that were not deemed classified at the time, or that others might think ought to be, and even intelligence experts differ about. It would involve proving one interpretation of a Rorschach test over another.

    Accordingly, it is my belief that no evidence, or insufficient evidence, exits and no charges will be filed. The matter will be closed soon.

    I would hazard a guess, however, that should Trump find himself in the position of an FBI inquiry, he would not risk an FBI interview and would take advantage of all rights available to him.  As with his claim that "China is killing us on trade," yet his ties are made in China, it becomes acceptable to his supporters because he is a businessman and would be foolish not to take advantage of all the opportunities. And, the media would admire his savvy, or, at least, concur that he is smart to do so. A different standard for Trump would, in my view, be in play.

    As reform of the criminal justice system is considered, it is my hope that 18 USC 100l is repealed or amended so as to narrow the reach of the statute.  Testimony should, at the very least, be under oath and interviews be tape recorded, rather than reliance upon an interview report dictated by an agent. Interviewees should be informed of their rights and that lying is a federal crime.

     Dennis Hastert, The long-time Republican Speaker of the House, while not a sympathetic character, would have had a better defense, (his charges were lying to FBI about hush money, and structuring money transactions), if he remained silent only asking to consult an attorney.  Instead, he lied, saying he did not trust banks so he was withdrawing his money.  

    Parent

    Wouldn't federal authorities be required ... (none / 0) (#108)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 11:30:02 PM EST
    ... to first inform Mrs. Clinton of that status, i.e., that she's a target or person of interest in their investigation, prior to formally questioning her about the matter at hand? That's a serious question on my part, because I don't know the answer to that.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Someone who is a target needs to be so informed, (none / 0) (#109)
    by Green26 on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 12:34:12 AM EST
    but as one poster stated, a person can go from a witness to someone is in trouble during an interview. The status of people in an investigation often/sometime evolves/changes over time.

    Parent
    Scooter Libby (none / 0) (#111)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 02:45:44 AM EST
    In a miscarriage of Justice

    Parent
    Scooter Libby (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 07:53:30 AM EST
    lied. If he had told the truth and let Dick Cheney be indicted he would not have been charged with obstruction of justice. Libby brought all that on himself but don't feel too sorry for him. He was immediately pardoned by George W. Bush and never suffered one day.

    Parent
    IOKIYAR (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 07:55:51 AM EST
    Lol (none / 0) (#115)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 08:04:30 AM EST
    Scooter Libby and Judith Miller gave different testimony as to the recollection of interviews. That is what he was convicted of. Fitzgerald would have let Libby off if Libby lied to implicate Cheney. Libby refused to lie to save his skin.

    And Miller , in her book, detailed how Libby was railroaded by the Special Counsel.
    Miscarriage OF Justice.

    A new book by former New York Times reporter Judith Miller, "The Story: A Reporter's Journey", claims that former White House adviser I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby was convicted of obstruction of justice and perjury through improperly manipulated testimony and withholding of crucial evidence in his 2007 trial.

    Libby received a sentence of a $250,000 fine, two years probation and 30 months in prison, with the prison part overturned by a grant of presidential clemency by President George W. Bush, over allegedly having identified Valerie Plame as a CIA agent.

    However, The Wall Street Journal states, Miller, whose testimony was crucial in Libby's conviction, says she was manipulated into providing false testimony by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, after spending 85 days in jail for refusing to cooperate.

    Miller says a review of her notes, on which part of her testimony was based, shows that she did not question Libby about whether Plame worked for the CIA but, rather, had asked if she worked for the State Department.

    "This threw 'a new light' on the June 2003 notebook jotting, Ms. Miller says, since the State Department has 'bureaus,' while the CIA is organized into 'divisions,' " Peter Berkowitz, senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution, writes in the Journal.

    Her notes stated, "wife works in bureau?"

    Berkowitz notes that Libby did not leak Plame's identity in retaliation for her husband opposing administration claims that Saddam Hussein had sought to purchase uranium from African sources. Plame's name was leaked by Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage to columnist Robert Novak.

    "From the moment he (Fitzgerald) took over the FBI leak investigation in December 2003, he knew Mr. Armitage was the leaker but declined to prosecute him...because the disclosure of Ms. Plame's identity wasn't a crime and didn't compromise national security," Berkowitz writes.



    Parent
    Of course (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 08:17:44 AM EST
    Republicans are always victims. LOL. Thanks for reminding us that victims are us should be the GOP motto.

    And any book by Judith Miller should be put on a laugh track.

    Parent

    You have your facts (none / 0) (#117)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 08:36:30 AM EST
    And you are sticking to them

    No matter what the truth is.

    Miller , in detailed fashion , fully explains how Libby was railroaded.
    Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative.

    Parent

    That you see no problematic credibility issues (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:13:41 AM EST
    involved in relying on Judy Miller as a reliable source explains why you trust sorces like Climate Depot for reliable information on climate change.

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    Judith Miller's checkered history (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:59:11 AM EST
    illustrates, if nothing else, a vocation for putting herself on the line and running interference for any neocon or neocon enabler that promises some payoff for her farther down the line.

    I'd want her as my defense witness the way I'd want Madoff as my financial consultant.

    Parent

    Uh, no, Trevor. (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 02:11:30 PM EST
    Facts are facts, and you're not entitled to make up your own. Judith Miller lied in her own New York Times op-ed (Oct. 16, 2005) when she claimed:

    "My notes do not show that Mr. Libby identified Mr. Wilson's wife by name. Nor do they show that he described Valerie Wilson as a covert agent or 'operative."

    Yet in her own notes, since released by federal investigators, her notation on her July 8, 2003 meeting with Libby clearly contains the name "Valerie Flame" [sic].

    There's a good reason why Miller now works for Fox News.

     

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    Funny (none / 0) (#120)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:19:19 AM EST
    how conservatives think that there's "your facts and my facts" No, Trevor there is no such thing as your facts or my facts only facts. Judith Miller was caught numerous times shopping false information and basically making crap up. Patrick Fitzgerald is no Ken Starr and has an impeccable reputation for fairness. You're the one so invested in a narrative not me. Conservatives try to create a narrative out of whole cloth and then work backwards to attempt to adjust and manipulate the "facts" to fit their "narrative". Most recent example of the GOP getting caught with their pants down on this is Benghazi. How many times are you going to get caught with your pants down before you start changing your behavior?

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    When your pants (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:29:52 AM EST
    Have been around your ankles long enough you just learn to take small steps and scream "whaddu looking at?"

    And hope like hell you don't drop your ballot in the voting booth.

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    No. Libby was not pardoned (none / 0) (#122)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:33:12 AM EST
    Although he should have never been charged. Fitzgerald knew who leaked Plame on the day he took the job.

    Libby's sentence was commuted.

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    Yes (none / 0) (#127)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:51:17 AM EST
    legally it was a commutation but essentially left him with little more than community service and a fine. So in reality more like a pardon though technically not one.

    Parent
    ... and he lied to a grand jury. He was found guilty on four of five counts, including felony obstruction of justice. Further, while President Bush later commuted Libby's sentence, he refused to pardon him, ostensibly because he had lied to Bush himself about what had actually happened. To quote Bush at the time he commuted Libby sentence, "I respect the jury's verdict."

    The only miscarriage was that Libby didn't go to prison.

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    Well (none / 0) (#103)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 08:25:04 PM EST
    all I can tell you is that has been reported that Hillary is not a target and will not be indicted. Gucifer probably will be indicted as he's the hacker.

    Give it up. This has gotten to be hilarious from Republicans spinning and spinning and spinning.

    Parent

    Musc (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 09:09:12 PM EST
    RIP, Michael Cimino (1939-2016). (none / 0) (#23)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 09:50:55 PM EST
    The Academy Award-winning director of the critically acclaimed 1978 Vietnam War drama "The Deer Hunter," whose meteoric film career flamed out only two years later when his ponderous Western epic "Heaven's Gate" sank spectacularly beneath the fiscal waves, and for all practical purposes took United Artists down with the ship, died today at age 77.

    Lest we forget influential futurist and author... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by desertswine on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 10:09:24 PM EST
    Alvin Toffler passed away 3 days ago.  "Future Shock" is still in print.

    His predictions about the consequences to culture, the family, government and the economy were remarkably accurate. He foresaw the development of cloning, the popularity and influence of personal computers and the invention of the internet, cable television and telecommuting.


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    I didn't hear about that. (none / 0) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 12:18:56 AM EST
    Thank you for posting the link. I read "Future Shock" in 9th grade. It's a fascinating book about a timeless theme -- change. I should probably read it again.

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    Fascinating guy (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 02, 2016 at 09:58:46 PM EST

    Although he directed a few films in the decades after "Heaven's Gate," Cimino kept a low profile, and plastic surgery made him almost unrecognizable. He resurfaced at the Cannes Film Festival for a screening of his 1996 film "Sunchaser." He appeared at Cannes again in 2007 for his final film venture, a three-minute contribution to the multi-director anthology "Chacun son gout." He obliquely addressed the rumor that he was transitioning into a woman, saying there were many false rumors about him, part of a "personal assassination"; he said if a detractor wants to prevent a person from working, the next best thing is to "destroy them personally."

    Variety

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    Somewhere within "Heaven's Gate" ... (none / 0) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 02:35:53 AM EST
    ... are the makings of a masterpiece that somehow got lost in the egotistical excesses and tug of war between that film's director and its studio.

    There's no question that Michael Cimino was a gifted filmmaker who instinctively knew how to frame a scene. There are any number of moments in "Heaven's Gate," such as the dance hall scene, that are brilliantly choreographed and shot.

    And the film's underlying backstory -- the infamous Johnson County War, an armed confrontation between prominent American cattle barons and local European immigrant settlers in Wyoming, which took place in 1892 -- certainly provided a compelling narrative basis for the film's screenplay.

    Cimino simply needed someone on location to rein him in from time to time and unfortunately, there was no one at United Artists who was willing and able to do that. Together, they allowed a film that was originally budgeted at $11 million (in 1980 dollars) to first burst its fiscal banks by a nearly fourfold margin, and then clock in at an eye-popping 5-1/2 hours with the director's initial workprint.

    Even though Cimino eventually cut the film down to 3-1/2 hours, there was really no way that United Artists was ever going to recoup its expenses, never mind show a profit, with a 220-min. film that realistically could only be shown in theatres once per evening. "Heaven's Gate" was doomed because Cimino's scope and vision were really ahead of its time.

    Today, "Heaven's Gate" would be probably hailed as an engrossing original two-part miniseries on HBO, not unlike director Mike Nichols' brilliant six-hour adaptation of Tony Kushner's epic "Angels in America."

    But back in 1980, Michael Cimino's film was destined to be the biggest flop in Hollywood history up to that point in time, which would short-circuit its director's career. Nevertheless, the 220-min. director's cut of "Heaven's Gate" is worth watching if you're a cinema buff. It's available on cable channels and DVD / Blu-ray Disc -- and unlike at the movie theatre, you can pause the film and take a break.

    Aloha.

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    I like the casting of Heavan's Gate.. (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 05:31:40 AM EST
    and that Cimino even found spots in the film for rockabilly great Ronnie Hawkins and harmonica master the late great Norton Buffalo..

    It's an uneven masterpiece in embryo, imo, that still beats the crap out of most of what comes out of Hollywood these days.

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    I never understood why so much scorn (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 08:21:08 AM EST
    Was heaped on it.  I've seen it.  It's long and sprawling and rambling.  So is The Deer Hunter.  I always thought there were many similarities with the two.   There was awful stories about animal cruelty, which was not uncommon in films and probably just started getting press around that time.

    Shirley Stoller was a dear friend.  She was the mother of John Savage in the Deer Hunter.  She always said very good things about the experience and the director.  She's described him as a strange and wonderful person.  And that was not typically the way she described directors.

    Parent

    I think you'll like and appreciate ... (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 07:05:56 PM EST
    ... this very thoughtful retrospective of Michael Cimino and his career, penned by Justin Chang of the Los Angeles Times:

    "It is impossible to mourn the death Saturday of Michael Cimino without confronting the loss of what he and his New Hollywood ilk represented: an audacious, ecstatic, sensuous, deranged and ultimately staggering vision of what the movies could be, and a willingness to pursue that vision utterly without compromise.

    "It was a costly vision, to be sure -- by which I mean more than just the well-documented financial fiasco of 'Heaven's Gate,' the ravaged and ravishing 1980 western that broke United Artists, hastened the death of a '70s auteur renaissance and dealt Cimino's career a blow from which it never recovered. Coming on the heels of his critical and commercial success with the Oscar-winning 'The Deer Hunter' (1978), 'Heaven's Gate' remains, for many, the definitive Hollywood cautionary tale of filmmaker hubris run amuck (as compellingly detailed in the tell-all book 'Final Cut' by Steven Bach, a former UA executive who was involved with the production).

    (Three-plus decades later, and those UA executives in charge at the time are still trying to cover their a$$es.)

    "Three decades after being critically eviscerated, yanked from theaters and largely kept out of public view, Cimino's epic of community and class warfare may yet experience the happy ending that eludes its characters as they lurch across the frontier terrain of 1890s Johnson County, Wyo. No shortage of critics and cinephiles have reclaimed the picture as a misunderstood masterpiece, many of them arguing on the strength of a beautiful Criterion Collection restoration, supervised by Cimino himself, that began playing festivals and repertory houses in 2013.

    "To experience 'Heaven's Gate' anew -- and it is indeed a thing to be experienced, with an open eye and an even more open ear (some of the dialogue remains famously muddled) -- is to gape at its magnificence and also sense the price that the director paid for his perfectionism. [...] What the director was looking for, amid the endless reshoots and nearly 250 miles of accumulated footage, was not just a narrative but a panorama -- a full-bodied portrait of working-class American life, filled with moments of languorous intimacy that would soon be subsumed in a whirlwind of violence. It's no overstatement to suggest that he was trying to give cinematic form to the lost, brutalized soul of America itself, and to create an epic human tragedy that would not just equal but eclipse his earlier landmark."

    Worth a read.

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    That was good (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 07:36:58 PM EST
    I did not realize he co-wrote Silent Running.  IMO still one of the best SciFi movies ever made and Bruce Derns best performance.

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    For the unfamiliar (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 07:47:39 PM EST
    From Eberts 1971 4 star review-

    The director is Douglas Trumbull, a Canadian who designed many of the special effects for Stanley Kubrick's "2001: A Space Odyssey." Trumbull also did the computers and the underground laboratory for "The Andromeda Strain," and is one of the best science-fiction special-effects men. "Silent Running," which has deep space effects every bit the equal of those in "2001," also introduces him as an intelligent, if not sensational, director.

    The weight of the movie falls on the shoulders of Bruce Dern, who plays the only man in sight during most of the picture. His only companions are Huey, Louie, and Dewey, who are small and uncannily human robots who help with the gardening. They're OK with a trowel but no good at playing poker, as their human boss discovers during a period of boredom.

    Dern is a very good, subtle actor, who was about the best thing in Jack Nicholson's directing debut, "Drive, He Said." Dern played a basketball coach as a man obsessed with the notion of winning -- and the deep-space ecologist this time is a quieter variation on the theme.

    "Silent running" isn't, in the last analysis, a very profound movie, nor does it try to be. (If it had, it could have been a pretentious disaster.) It is about a basically uncomplicated man faced with an awesome, but uncomplicated, situation. Given a choice between the lives of his companions and the lives of Earth's last surviving firs and pines, oaks and elms, and creepers and cantaloupes, he decides for the growing things. After all, there are plenty of men. His problem is that, after a while, he begins to miss them.

    Bit of advise.  Don't watch the trailer.  It WAS 1971.  The trailer is awful.  I was going to link but it would not make you want to see the movie.

    Parent

    That's Hollywood, Cap'n. (none / 0) (#97)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 05:58:38 PM EST
    Most critics likely never even saw "Heaven's Gate," since the film never really received a proper release and was very quickly pulled within a week from the few theaters which were showing it at the time.

    For that very reason, perhaps we also shouldn't label the film a "box office bomb," since it was actually shelved by United Artists and the public didn't get the opportunity to see it.

    Further, executives at United Artists were more than eager to deflect attention away from their own culpability for having greenlighted Michael Cimino's overly ambitious project in the first place, as well as their failure at several key moments during his film's production to cap its runaway budget. And of course, the director's own mercurial behavior made it very easy for everyone to blame him for the fiasco.

    Three decades-plus after the fact, "Heaven's Gate" is only now starting to be considered in a more favorable light, as more people see the epic Western for the very first time. I found it to be visually striking if somewhat ponderous, but hardly the awful film so many tried to make it out to be 35 years ago. Perhaps now, with Cimino's passing, critics themselves will take the time to watch it and give it a second chance.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Ironically, the song used in that ... (none / 0) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 05:26:08 PM EST
    ... circa 1890 dance hall scene, "Mamou Two-Step," is actually of recent Louisiana Cajun vintage, having been composed by Bob Dylan's fiddle player and friend, David Mansfield. It's still a great scene.

    Parent
    Cimino it seems.. (none / 0) (#118)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 08:50:24 AM EST
    was haunted by the ghost of David Lean and wanted to make a Western with the all-encompassing sweep and scope of Lawrence of Arabia or Dr Zhivago..

    One thing he got very right - the way John Ford, Lean, and Arthur Penn did - is that the land itself is as important a character in the story as any of the individual protagonists.

    Parent

    And Terrence Malick (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:47:44 AM EST
    Heavens Gate always seemed a bit like a lost Malick movie to me.   Do Malicks movies make money?  I honestly don't know.  And didn't look.  I know they are not for everyone.   But every star in Hollywood lines up to do them.


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    A lot of people say Badlands is the sleeper (none / 0) (#129)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 10:17:29 AM EST
    in discussions of Malick's best films, though Days of Heavan is probably the one people mention most often..

    I really respect the fact that film makers like Malick go for it creatively in the full knowledge that a handful of pretentious schmuck critics with short attention spans will always attack his film's "overweaning pretentiousness" and "overreaching" etc etc

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    I am a huge Malick fan boy (none / 0) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 10:25:09 AM EST
    Especially Italy the two you mention, Days of Heaven is IMO one of the best films ever made, but all of them really.  

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    No idea how (none / 0) (#131)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 10:26:18 AM EST
    Italy got in there but whatever

    Parent
    I wonder if Malick ever took acid (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 10:40:10 AM EST
    my guess is yes.

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    When we were beginning work on the (none / 0) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 10:30:44 AM EST
    Disney movie Dinosaur, remember this was in 1995 in the very infancy of digital movie making, I was on the lighting team early and one if the things I talked them into doing is screening Days of Heaven for the lighting crew.  We had a theater.  The lighting is spectacularly good.  Every shot is backlit.  I've read about how long it took because he would only shoot at "magic hours"

    Parent
    The opening sequence (none / 0) (#133)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 10:37:06 AM EST
    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 11:16:02 AM EST
    That sequence is as close to perfection as you're ever going to find in the history of American film. The very effective voice over, music, and cinematography all meld together beautifully.

    I wonder how many times the Coens have watched that film. A fair number, I'd imagine. Cimino too.

    Parent

    I don't like voice over narration (none / 0) (#137)
    by McBain on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 11:47:00 AM EST
    so I have a hard time with Mallick.  I've only seen Day's of Heaven once and it was on a 4:3 TV showing a fuzzy VHS cassette transfer. Probably not the way to go.  

    Parent
    ... to be "The Thin Red Line" (1998), which he adapted from author James Jones' novel about the Battle of Guadalcanal in the Second World War. I also consider that film to be among the very best and most realistic depictions of war ever put to celluloid. It was somewhat overshadowed by Steven Spielberg's excellent "Saving Private Ryan," which was released the very same year, but I think Malick's film is somewhat the better of the two.

    Parent
    The opening and closing scenes of (none / 0) (#145)
    by McBain on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 03:23:27 PM EST
    "The New World" are excellent.  Same with the formation scene in "Tree of Life".  Someone was talking about Douglas Trumbull earlier.  Trumbull helped out with the old school (non CGI) effects in that film.  What a refreshing look.

    I just wish Malick would let his strong visuals do the talking instead of the constant voice over whispering.  

    Parent

    Malick and Cimino share a similar ... (none / 0) (#147)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 04:55:33 PM EST
    ... sense of visual acuity and composition in their filmmaking, which I think sets their work apart from other directors. The only other modern director I've seen who's that consistently good at working with the location landscape to frame the long shot is Clint Eastwood.

    Warren Beatty proved himself capable of pulling off the same in "Reds"(1981), his sprawling epic about activist / journalist John Reed and the Russian Revolution, for which he received a well-deserved Academy Award as best director. But his body of work in that capacity -- only five films thus far -- has been sporadic at best. He recently stepped behind the camera again to direct the comedy "Rules Don't Apply," in which he also stars as the late billionaire recluse Howard Hughes. It's due for release this coming November.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    The sequence in The New World (none / 0) (#165)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 08:48:51 PM EST
    portraying the death of Pocahontas was very beautiful and moving..

    Malick at his poetic best.

    Parent

    Another one that slipped somewhat (none / 0) (#148)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 04:58:54 PM EST
    under the radar around that time was the very good Enemy At The Gates.

    Parent
    I just read where some critic (none / 0) (#150)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 05:31:45 PM EST
    who didn't like the film called it Enema At The Gates ;-)

    Parent
    Ever see Cloud Atlas (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 05:43:11 PM EST
    It's sort of a mess but a brilliant one I think, anyway, it was on cable last night so I watched.  My favorite part of that movie is when one of the Tom Hanks characters throws a pompous literary critic off a balcony at a cocktail party.  

    It's just he of those thing so many people have always wanted to see.

    Parent

    I like these brilliant messes sometimes (none / 0) (#155)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 06:02:15 PM EST
    I'll check it out.

    Parent
    Ebert (4 stars) (none / 0) (#157)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 06:14:15 PM EST
    Even as I was watching "Cloud Atlas" the first time, I knew I would need to see it again. Now that I've seen it the second time, I know I'd like to see it a third time -- but I no longer believe repeated viewings will solve anything. To borrow Churchill's description of Russia, "it is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma." It fascinates in the moment. It's getting from one moment to the next that is tricky.

    WATCH NOW

    Surely this is one of the most ambitious films ever made. The little world of film criticism has been alive with interpretations of it, which propose to explain something that lies outside explanation. Any explanation of a work of art must be found in it, not taken to it. As a film teacher, I was always being told by students that a film by David Lynch, say, or Warner Herzog, was "a retelling of the life of Christ, say, or 'Moby Dick.' " My standard reply was: Maybe it's simply the telling of itself.

    Yet "Cloud Atlas" cries out for an explanation, and surely you've noticed that I've been tap-dancing around one. I could tell you that it relates six stories taking place between the years 1849 and 2346. I could tell you that the same actors appear in different roles, playing characters of different races, genders and ages. Some are not even human, but fabricants. I could tell you that the acting and makeup are so effective that often I had no idea if I was looking at Tom Hanks, Halle Berry or Jim Broadbent. I could tell you that, and what help is it?

    I could tell you that each segment is a refashioning of the story contained in the previous one. That the same birthmark turns up in every period of time. That a repeated motif is that all lives are connected by a thirst for freedom. That the movie was inspired by the much-loved novel of the same name by David Mitchell. That in the novel, the stories were told in chronological order, and then circled back again from end to beginning. That the movie finds its connections through the reappearances of the same actors in different roles and deliberately refers to one story from within another.

    Now are you wiser? I'm treading water. And now could follow a very long paragraph introducing and describing the different characters played by the actors. But you would lose your way all the same, because many of the performances and disguises are so cunningly effective. I could tell you that Halle Berry's work as a mid-1970s investigative reporter works well for me, and the gnarly wisdom of Tom Hanks as an old man telling tales is the most impenetrable.

    I despair. I think you will want to see this daring and visionary film, directed by Lana Wachowski, Tom Tykwer and Andy Wachowski. Anywhere you go where movie people gather, it will be discussed. Deep theories will be proposed. Someone will say, "I don't know what in the hell I saw." The names of Freud and Jung will come up. And now you expect me to unwrap the mystery from the enigma and present you with a nice shiny riddle?



    Parent
    Now I really wanna see it (none / 0) (#158)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 06:37:30 PM EST
    Btw, my favorite story about critics is one Groucho Marx used to tell about a certain prickly theatre critic one of the major New York papers sent to Europe to cover WWI. The writer Ring Lardner's response was "But, what if he doesn't like the war?"

    Parent
    Here's a great clip (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 06:44:37 PM EST
    of the different characters the actors play

    Actually it's almost more fun to see this after seeing the movie because you will absolutely not recognize some of them in the makeup

    Parent

    Upon reflection, I have to admit that ... (none / 0) (#161)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 07:09:52 PM EST
    ... I didn't much care for "Cloud Atlas." But that said, I was glad I saw it. As failures go, it was certainly a most ambitious and noble one.

    Parent
    There were 2 or 3 good ideas for a movie (none / 0) (#162)
    by McBain on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 07:24:37 PM EST
    in there that, ultimately, got in the way of each other.  Sometimes, simple is better.  

    Parent
    Everything (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 06:05:31 PM EST
    I love Cloud Atlas (none / 0) (#172)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 11:12:42 PM EST
    I have old favorites but it's one of my newer favorites. Don't know why, I lump it in with a Bicentennial Man and Benjamin Button mood.

    Parent
    That was a brilliant if underrated film. (none / 0) (#160)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 07:03:33 PM EST
    Arguably, Stalingrad was the most vicious single battle in world history, lasting for the better part of six months. "Enemy at the Gates" did a remarkable job of conveying to its audience the Red Army's desperate plight on the banks of the Volga River in the face of the Wehrmacht's onslaught, and its stand was a truly amazing and heroic feat, if unbelievably costly. It's not overstating the seriousness of their situation in the slightest, to speculate that had the Germans actually been able to cross the Volga and reach the Caspian Sea, the Soviet war effort might well have collapsed completely in the fall of 1942.

    Instead, when the battle itself finally ended in Feb. 1943, the Axis front lines had been pushed back westward by nearly 150 miles, the entirety of Stalingrad itself had literally been reduced to ash and rubble, and of the 2.2 million soldiers deployed by both sides in this one battle, nearly 1.7 million of them, as well as about 100,000 Russian noncombatants, were either dead, wounded, captured or missing.

    While many people still tend to think of the Battle of Stalingrad as strictly a Russo-German affair, by the late summer of 1942 the German war effort on the eastern front was actually receiving substantial support from their Axis allies in terms of men and materiel, and was in fact quite dependent upon them. And so, while the Germans lunged toward Stalingrad itself, over 600,000 Italian, Romanian and Hungarian soldiers were supporting that effort on either flank.

    It was the Italian 8th Army and Romanian 3rd and 4th Armies on those flanks which were the first to receive the initial brunt of the Soviet counteroffensive in mid-November 1942. Although outnumbered by nearly 9 to 1 by the attacking Red Army divisions, the Italians and Romanians both held their ground until they were completely overwhelmed. Over 200,000 Romanian, 130,000 Italian and 120,000 Hungarian soldiers were lost at Stalingrad, in addition to the 400,000 Germans troops of Gen. Von Paulus's 6th Army who were trapped inside the city.

    The sheer size and scale of the Second World War as it was fought in Russia and eastern Europe boggles the mind. When Nazi German and Axis forces launched Operation Barbarossa on June 22, 1941, invading the Soviet Union along an 1,800 mile-long front, they did so with over 4 million soldiers, 7,000 tanks, 8,000 artillery and field guns, 3,000 aircraft, 700,000 vehicles, and 80,000 horses. To this very day, Barbarossa remains the single largest invasion force ever assembled and deployed in the history of warfare.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    An aspect of the history that hasn't (none / 0) (#163)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 08:27:23 PM EST
    been publicly touched upon very often in this country is the Romanian and Hungarian complicity in cooperating with the Reich in WWII and what role that played in the subsequent lack of sympathy the old SU had for all the sovereign rights of those two countries after the war.

    Parent
    I doubt that most people realize that ... (none / 0) (#173)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 11:41:46 PM EST
    ... the United States Congress formally declared war upon Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria on June 25, 1942, or that we were engaged in active armed hostilities with those nations, as well as with Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy.

    In particular, the Ploesti oil fields and refinery complexes in Romania, about 35 miles north of Bucharest, were the primary source of petroleum products for Nazi Germany and thus a high-profile target for U.S. and British war planners. On August 1, 1943, the 9th U.S. Army Air Force, operating from bases in Libya, launched Operation Tidal Wave, a large treetop level raid by B-24 heavy bombers which specifically targeted the Ploesti oil complexes.

    Per capita, Operation Tidal Wave proved to be the costliest of all aerial assaults conducted by USAAF during the entire war in Europe. Thanks to an earlier small-scale raid in June 1942 on the same area by U.S. bombers, Romanian and German forces had taken stock of their vulnerability, significantly increased their air defenses in the 13-month interim, which included deployment of some of the best fighter squadrons. They were thus fully prepared to meet the attack.

    Of the 177 B-24s which had departed for Ploesti that day, unaccompanied by fighter escort, four turned back due to mechanical issues, and 11 were shot down by Luftwaffe fighters on their way to the target. Once the U.S. bombers reached the vicinity of Ploesti after a 4-hour flight from Libya, the pilots dropped their planes down for their low-level bombing runs (as shown in this USAAF photo from that day), which USAAF planners had anticipated would surprise the German and Romanian defenders.

    Instead, U.S. squadron commanders discovered to their horror that Axis forces were actually awaiting their arrival. German and Romanian fighter planes swarmed down from above, and because of the bombers' absurdly low altitude, B-24 gunners could bring only minimal firepower to bear on their aerial assailants, while heavy ground fire poured into the U.S. squadrons from below. It quickly devolved into a turkey shoot as U.S. pilots pressed home the attack. The 98th and 386th Bombardment Groups were shot to pieces, losing 80% of their aircraft, and the other three bombardment groups sustained heavy losses as well.

    Only 88 of the 177 attacking B-24s eventually returned to Libya intact. 53 bombers had been shot down, and another 55 had sustained such heavy damage that most were subsequently scrapped for whatever spare parts could be salvaged. 440 U.S. crewmen had been killed in the disastrous assault, and another 220 were reported either captured or missing. Correspondingly, German and Romanian losses totaled 5 fighter planes and 16 men killed.

    To add insult to injury, and contrary to contemporary U.S. newsreels which had insisted otherwise to the folks back home (which contained authentic -- though heavily edited -- film footage of the attack), documents captured by the Allies at the end of the war showed that the damage inflicted on the refinery complexes by U.S. bombers that day had been negligible, and refinery operations had not been interrupted in the slightest. In fact, Ploesti's net oil production output actually increased by nearly 20% only two weeks after the attack.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Sarah Palin (none / 0) (#30)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 03:13:01 AM EST
    ...has latched onto the Trump train.  She seems to be emerging as a prime surrogate.  Fine with me.

    The rub.  The convention seems to be a little short of speakers.  She will want the stage at the RNC.  It will be the start of the comeback tour.  She will want prime time, and she will want a lot of it.  Hard to keep her away from that microphone but dangerous to let her use it.

    Trump and Palin together will raise the stupidity levels in that building to previously unimaginable heights.  

    Meanwhile, out in the streets, Altamont.

    Regarding Hillary's conversation with the FBI, it probably went like this.  Hillary: "Do you want Donald Trump to be your boss?  All right then.  Are we done?"

    It won't (none / 0) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 06:03:31 AM EST
    even be a convention. It will be a word salad extravaganza. Tina Fey will have to come back to SNL to do Sarah Palin.

    Parent
    There seems to be renewed buzz (none / 0) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 09:06:31 AM EST
    About Snowden being a Russian agent.  Mostly rightish sites.  HOT AIR being the boy one I am familiar enough with to quote-

    Now, the Kremlin has settled the issue once and for all by stating that Edward Snowden is indeed their man. In a remarkable interview this week, Franz Klintsevich, a senior Russian security official, explained the case matter-of-factly: "Let's be frank. Snowden did share intelligence. This is what security services do. If there's a possibility to get information, they will get it."

    With this, Klintsevich simply said what all intelligence professionals already knew - that Snowden is a collaborator with the FSB. That he really had no choice in the matter once he set foot in Russia does not change the facts.

    Klintsevich is no idle speculator. He is a senator who has served in the State Duma for nearly a decade. More importantly, he is the deputy chair of the senate's defense and security committee, which oversees the special services. The 59-year-old Klintsevich thus has access to many state secrets - for instance regarding the Snowden case.

    That would be inconvenient

    Feel The Johnson (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 03, 2016 at 09:40:41 AM EST
    Warriors sign Kevin Durant (none / 0) (#138)
    by McBain on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 11:50:04 AM EST
    As a warrior fan, I'm not sure how I feel about this.  With Durant, Curry and Thompson, will there be enough shots to go around?

    I'd be more worried about egos. (none / 0) (#146)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 04:27:58 PM EST
    If these high-powered players can check them at the door, the Warriors will not only be fine, they'll probably be the prohibitive favorite to regain the NBA title they lost in rather shocking fashion the just-completed Finals.

    Parent
    Probably be? (none / 0) (#167)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:42:55 PM EST
    Golden State is already at 4/5 to be the 2016/2017 NBA Champion. A distant 2nd is Cleveland at 4-1

    Parent
    STRANGER THINGS (none / 0) (#149)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 05:24:19 PM EST
    Here's a new definition of water hazard: (none / 0) (#166)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:00:57 PM EST
    An alligator, nicknamed "Igor" and estimated to be 15 feet in length, was recorded via cell phone video about 5 weeks ago while taking a leisurely stroll along one of the fairways at the Buffalo Creek Golf Course outside of Bradenton, FL.

    That must've been an impressive sight.

    Ha (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 09:55:44 PM EST
    "Get next to it for perspective"

    I've seen so many digital creatures I have to keep telling my brain it's real.   Holy sh!t.

    Parent

    If you don't have the NASA channel (none / 0) (#169)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 10:01:44 PM EST
    You can watch the Jupiter mission live online.

    Here's one link but there are probably many

    Halfway through (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 10:39:07 PM EST
    The main burn for insertion into the first 53 day orbit.  Coming in at 139,000 mph.

    Gotta say it really bugging me that the mission manager doesn't know how to pronounce nuclear.

    Parent

    Juno is reported to be in its planned orbit (none / 0) (#174)
    by desertswine on Mon Jul 04, 2016 at 11:42:04 PM EST
    Welcome to Jupiter.  

    Parent
    Site Violator. (none / 0) (#176)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 05, 2016 at 04:32:14 AM EST
    I think he's saying, "We mean no harm to your planet."

    Cummings uses his closing statement (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 07, 2016 at 01:37:05 PM EST
    To address the mulitple  police killing in the last few days.

    Good for him.  We are so lucky to have him in that seat.

    Death (none / 0) (#180)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 08, 2016 at 02:04:28 PM EST
    Casey (none / 0) (#181)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 09, 2016 at 04:48:06 AM EST
    What's the news on the ground re: Obamacare?  I see Oregon's Health CO-OP is shutting down.  Is this a large plan in the state?