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Death Toll Tops 80 in Bastille Day Attack in Nice

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 08:25:00 AM EST
Tags: Nice, ISIS (all tags)
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More than 80 are dead in last night's terror attack in Nice, France where crowds of people were watching fireworks and celebrating Bastille Day.

The driver of the truck, a French-Tunisian binational, was killed by police. ISIS supporters on Telegram are celebrating and promoting lone wolf attacks. Other cities are mentioned as potential targets, including Berlin and Toronto. I refuse to get a Telegram account because it insists on providing a phone number, but Journalist Tam Hussein's twitter feed has a roundup with graphics. As of now, there is no official ISIS statement.

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    Death Toll Tops 80 in Bastille Day Attack in Nice | 92 comments (92 topical)

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    Omama's comment was surprising. (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 09:43:29 AM EST
    No call for truck control or common sense truck safety measures. Perhaps he is coming around to the notion that we are facing a determined ideology (that will not be named) rather than the unfortunate misuse of inanimate objects.

    Actually we have more laws regulating trucks than (none / 0) (#17)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 12:34:42 PM EST
    we do guns, since truck advocates have been lax in getting a constitutional amendment protecting their rights, and our response to truck bomb attacks like the Marine barracks in Lebanon and Oklahoma City was to put concrete barriers around many locations, making a lot harder to get a truck anywhere near. Of course that is impossible to do in places trucks are supposed to be allowed.  But I see people even on this thread are questioning that there were enough safety precautions in place to keep traffic off the road with all the pedestrians there.

    I got carried away...what was your point again?

    Parent

    Anyone can buy a truck (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 02:31:57 PM EST
    No background check, no license required, no minimum age.

    There may well be more laws regarding trucks in general,  but nary a smidgeon regarding who may purchase or own a truck.  

    Parent

    You may not need a license to buy one but you need (none / 0) (#30)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 03:33:00 PM EST
    a special license to operate a truck that size. And regular safety checks, etc. There is more scrutiny of truck owner/operators on that class of vehicle than there will ever be on gun owner/operators, at least in this country.

    Parent
    Once you have the truck (none / 0) (#55)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:12:51 AM EST
    You need a license to legally opertate it.  Those intent on mass murder will care not a fig about mere license requirements.

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#45)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 08:46:32 PM EST
    anyone cannot buy a truck at least here in GA. You must have a license and you have to be 18. No dealership in their right mind would sell somebody a truck without a license for liability reasons.

    Parent
    Try again (none / 0) (#56)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:17:51 AM EST

    Name one corporation that has a license to operate a truck.  Dealership policy is hardly uniform across the country. This may come as a surprise, but dealerships are not the sole truck sellers in this country.

    Parent
    Moving (none / 0) (#57)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 07:35:41 AM EST
    the goal posts once again? This was an individual with a truck and corporations even if they don't need a license to buy a truck better have insurance on the truck and their driver better have a license. Major fail on your part once again.

    Parent
    And you (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 08:47:55 PM EST
    have to have insurance on the car before it leaves the lot. Your attempted analogy is a complete and utter fail.

    Parent
    Craigslist (none / 0) (#60)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:58:44 AM EST
    Auto Trader

    Other online ads

    Friends

    Neighbors

    Relatives

    Theft

    There are lots of ways to obtain vehicles that don't involve details.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 09:10:01 AM EST
    but again you could be held personally liable in those situations unlike with guns.

    Parent
    So you steal a gun (none / 0) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:21:18 PM EST
    and you're not liable?

    Parent
    The truck was rented (none / 0) (#63)
    by Green26 on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 10:52:30 AM EST
    "The truck, a 19-ton refrigeration vehicle rented by the assailant on Monday,...."

    "Contrary to initial reports from Nice municipal officials that the truck was full of weapons and explosives, its cargo hold contained a bicycle and eight empty pallets. The cab was said to contain an automatic 7.65-millimeter pistol, two fake assault rifles, a nonfunctioning grenade, and a cellphone and unspecified documents that the police were analyzing."

    NY Times Article.

    Parent

    More truck info (none / 0) (#64)
    by Green26 on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 10:58:06 AM EST
    "The truck was rented on Monday and was supposed to have been returned Wednesday, Molins said, without saying who rented it. Surveillance video shows that about two hours before the attack Thursday, Bouhlel rode a bicycle to pick up the truck east of the city, the prosecutor said."

    CNN article.

    Parent
    love you and all but (none / 0) (#72)
    by linea on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:43:50 PM EST
    this is really really a bad snarc.

    Parent
    tats, when CA sinks will it mess up the fishing? (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 12:05:48 PM EST


    "A goift from allah" (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Redbrow on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 04:33:12 AM EST
    According to Erdogan.

    This coup could not have worked out better for Erdogan if he orchestrated it  himself.

    There is a rumor (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 07:47:50 AM EST
    That he did just that.

    Parent
    Mao did it; Stalin did it (none / 0) (#61)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 09:00:33 AM EST
    seed a small insurrection to flush out the sympathisers

    Parent
    Europe is in a big (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 06:36:05 PM EST
    Heap of trouble

    Horror as 15 people are attacked by 17-year-old Afghan refugee wielding an AXE and shouting 'Allahu Akbar' in German train rampage before police shot him dead as he fled the scene
    Attacker went on the rampage on a train near Wurzburg targeting 15 people
    Three critically injured after an attack with 'cutting and stabbing weapons'
    A 17-year-old Afghan refugee has since been shot dead by armed police
    Teenager shouted 'Allahu Akbar' in 'probable' Islamist attack, officials say
    http://tinyurl.com/zenqxao

    let me fix that for you (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by The Addams Family on Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 07:14:52 PM EST
    "Teenager Shouted [omitted] in Probable [omitted]"

    Parent
    When you use tinyurls (none / 0) (#92)
    by Nemi on Tue Jul 19, 2016 at 06:09:57 AM EST
    could you please mention what site you are linking to? I for one don't want to give Daily Mail traffic. Or try this for making 'proper' links:

    <
    a
    [space]
    href
    =
    [place url of the site you want to link to]
    >
    [place words you chose to highlight]
    <
    /
    a
    >

    Now put it all in one line. And if at first you don't succeed, try and try and try again.

    About the -- yet again -- tragic incident in Germany, Der Spiegel reports

    Officials have not yet determined whether there are Islamist links to the attack. [Bavarian Interior Minister Joachim] Hermann said he did not want to "participate in any speculation." The motive and background of the crime are still being investigated. A witness claimed that the perpetrator called out the words "Allahu akbar," or "God is great," during the attack. Police shot the perpetrator as he fled.

    [...]

    Hermann said all information gathered so far indicates the perpetrator had been acting on his own.

    [Emphasis mine]

    Parent

    I'm at the point of questioning the benefit of (4.57 / 7) (#3)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 08:26:04 AM EST
    round the clock news coverage. I  don't want victims to be forgotten, but if this is indeed an ISIS involved attack, it plays right into their hand to have it on every TV.  Not to mention the attention by politicians.  I think once the basic event is described there needs to be a halt until new facts emerge. But then what would news channels bloviate about for 24 hours?

    These type of horrific attacks are unjustifiable (2.00 / 2) (#2)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 06:37:35 AM EST
    on any level, but we on the West should also own up to the fact that we contributed to the normalization of the tactic of the intentional targetting civilians in WWII..

    Since that precedent, any supporter of ISIL or related groups can always say "We're so terrible? So monsterous? Well, YOU people did it too. Don't pretend you didn't."

    Nice try at (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 09:11:06 AM EST
    moral equivalency but it doesn't work and doesn't stop the killing.

    As for "you did it," civilians have always made out poorly during war. Read up on the forced conversions, beheadings, slave taking during Mohammed's campaigns and the wars that followed as Islam was expanded by the sword.

    And then there was 9/11.

    Parent

    And For Balance (3.50 / 2) (#5)
    by RickyJim on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 09:20:59 AM EST
    Read about atrocities caused by the spread of Christianity.

    Parent
    Nice (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 09:39:35 AM EST
    You have to go back centuries to see how Christianity WAS practiced.

    Parent
    No, Abdul, you don't have to go back that far. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 12:27:46 PM EST
    Abdul: "You have to go back centuries to see how Christianity WAS practiced."

    Two words: "Sarajevo" and "Srebrenica."

    20 years ago, tens of thousands of Bosnian Muslims were deliberately targeted and killed by Christians for no reason other than their religion. And Muslims weren't responsible for the calculated slaughter of 6 million Jews in the Holocaust during the Second World War. If you'd like a more recent example of Christian terrorism in our own country, you need look no further than the Sikh Temple massacre in suburban Milwaukee on Aug. 5, 2012.

    Religious fundamentalism is a natural byproduct of willful fear and ignorance, and has long been a primary source of friction and conflict in this world. And since no one single faith is immune from its folly, none should therefore be singled out as either more guilty than the others or more holier than thou.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    And the world condemned (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 02:28:12 PM EST
    their actions and sent military, including the US, to stop the killings generated by this ancient war.

    Where has this been done with ISIS?

    Parent

    Well, gosh, Jim, I don't know. (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 04:39:01 PM EST
    Why don't you ask an expert?

    "A man who has appeared on Fox News as a guest "terrorism analyst" was sentenced to 33 months in prison on Friday on charges that he fraudulently claimed to have been a CIA agent for decades, U.S. prosecutors said. Wayne Simmons, 62, of Annapolis, Maryland, was sentenced in U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Virginia, the U.S. Attorney's Office said in a statement. 'Wayne Simmons is a fraud. Simmons has no military or intelligence background, or any skills relevant to the positions he attained through his fraud,' said Dana Boente, U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia."

    Oh, dear! Since it looks like Mr. Simmons isn't going to be available anytime soon, let's consult the next best thing, shall we?

    "Soon after a truck plowed through Bastille Day revelers in Nice, France, Thursday night and killed over 80 people, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich called for strict measures to screen Muslims in the United States. 'Let me be as blunt and direct as I can be. Western civilization is in a war. We should frankly test every person here who is of a Muslim background, and if they believe in Sharia, they should be deported,' Gingrich, who is advising presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump's campaign, said. 'Sharia is incompatible with Western civilization. Modern Muslims who have given up Sharia, glad to have them as citizens. Perfectly happy to have them next door."

    Here's one thing I DO know: D!ck-swinging does not constitute "expertise" in this or any other field, save possibly for certain forms of adult entertainment that's designed for a particular audience with select and discriminating tastes -- you know, the audience that watches Fox News.

    An East St. Louis Toodle-oo to you, sir.

    Parent

    Huh? A bit confused are you? (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 09:40:29 PM EST
    Or are you really claiming that we didn't intercede to stop the killing??

    But, since you have changed the subject, tell me why  this guy lasted for ages??? I mean, according to Obama and folks like you, we can vet Muslim refugees in a heartbeat even though there is no paper on them.

    As for Newt, he is exactly right. There's a war going on.

    Let me know when you want to defend the country.

    Parent

    So you're going to impugn others' patriotism? (none / 0) (#71)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:39:31 PM EST
    Why don't you wrap yourself tightly in Old Glory, and take a long walk off a short pier while singing "The Star-Spangled Banner"?

    Parent
    Seems like a simple question (none / 0) (#74)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 09:31:09 AM EST
    Newt says, and I agree, that we are at war.

    You disagree.

    That being the case let me know when you want to defend the country.

    Parent

    You can tell a lot about a man (none / 0) (#85)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 09:25:39 PM EST
    by the people he looks up to..

    Newt "Deferment" Gingrich has built a whole career on urging others to defend the country..and to defend marital fidelity..and truth telling..and Christian values..

    In other words, his actions tell us he doesn't believe what he says himself.

    Not the best person to use as an authoritative source.

    Parent

    Of course (none / 0) (#23)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 02:42:21 PM EST
    The Pope's call for world Catholics to support that ethnic cleansing makes your point. The head of the Church of England did the same. That plus the forced conversions. If only I remembered.  

    Parent
    You seem to remember things rather selectively. (none / 0) (#39)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 04:48:45 PM EST
    "The essence of immorality is the tendency to make an exception of myself."
    - Jane Addams, humanitarian and Nobel Peace Prize laureate (1860-1935)

    You made a blanket claim about Christianity that was very easily refutable, and I did so. That you chose to respond in such a silly and entirely defensive manner only further underscores my original point about religious fundamentalism, which should always be confronted and marginalized -- regardless of its faith-based source.

    Good day.

    Parent

    And let you can let us know (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 09:42:53 PM EST
    when you come to understand the difference between radical islam and christianity.

    Parent
    Well, Jim, you certainly know ... (none / 0) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 11:09:50 PM EST
    ... little or nothing about either Christianity or Islam. Jeralyn's admonished you time and again for using these thread to bash and slur Muslims, not that you pay any heed to her or anyone else in that regard.

    And since I'm obviously talking to someone who's apparently stunted emotionally in a perpetually adolescent state, I'll just conclude this discussion on my part by saying that I stand by what I wrote, and I'm not further inclined to talk any more about such matters with either children or their adult-aged emotional equivalents thereof.

    Have a nice evening.

    Parent

    well Donald, you certainly know (none / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:31:13 AM EST
    how to make things up.

    And I see a few facts bother you so you decide to play hall monitor and then leave because you have no answer.

    Parent

    You are the very last person in the world ... (none / 0) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:02:19 PM EST
    ... to be lecturing anyone on the corresponding subjects of faith and religion, given that your painfully obvious bigotry toward the followers of Islam -- amongst many others who don't look, think and act just like you -- completely belies whatever claims you might stake to having the ear of The Almighty. Nor do you have any business belittling anybody here, just because they don't happen to agree with the Gospel According to PPJ.

    Your misguided sense of moral superiority epitomizes what my late grandmother used to say about people who'd wear their religion so prominently on the sleeves, because there's no room for true faith in their hearts. You told jondee yesterday to read the New Testament. Well, perhaps you should heed own condescending advice and do so yourself, starting with the Holy Gospels and most specifically, Matthew 5:38-48.

    Have a good day.

    Parent

    You have no answer (none / 0) (#75)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 12:06:44 PM EST
    so you smear by calling people who disagree with you a bigot.

    Not unexpected but this time you use your grandmother as a source rather than an aunt or uncle.

    This technique is known as the "untouchable source" strategy.

    In this case it is using family as a source will prevent the person attacked from responding because they don't want family involved.

    It is similar to quoting a snippet from some "leader" or declaring "every one knows that..."

    My comments are based on facts.

    Parent

    Logical fallacies (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 05:20:55 PM EST
    A logical fallacy is, roughly speaking, an error of reasoning. When someone adopts a position, or tries to persuade someone else to adopt a position, based on a bad piece of reasoning, they commit a fallacy. I say "roughly speaking" because this definition has a few problems, the most important of which are outlined below. Some logical fallacies are more common than others, and so have been named and defined. When people speak of logical fallacies they often mean to refer to this collection of well-known errors of reasoning, rather than to fallacies in the broader, more technical sense given above.

    My comments are based on facts

    Arguments consist of premises, inferences, and conclusions. Arguments containing bad inferences, i.e. inferences where the premises don't give adequate support for the conclusion drawn, can certainly be called fallacious. What is less clear is whether arguments containing false premises but which are otherwise fine should be called fallacious.
    If a fallacy is an error of reasoning, then strictly speaking such arguments are not fallacious; their reasoning, their logic, is sound. However, many of the traditional fallacies are of just this kind. It's therefore best to define fallacy in a way that includes them; this site will therefore use the word fallacy in a broad sense, including both formal and informal fallacies, and both logical and factual errors.



    Parent
    As I wrote (none / 0) (#81)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 08:55:23 AM EST
    You have nothing to often beyond disagreeing.

    No examples. Nothing.

    On the other hand, a Peer Poll shows...

    Parent

    Not (2.00 / 1) (#8)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 09:45:31 AM EST
    so far back, google Army of God.

    Parent
    The Arny of God has (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 10:02:16 AM EST
    attacked who? When did they kill 3000+ in NYC?

    When did they torch off a bomb in Boston?

    When did they burn children to death?

    When did they stone gays???

    Which nation states support them?

    Your false analogy looks silly.

    Why do you support ISIS by trying to say they are the same??????

    I mean, I know you know better. At least I hope you do.


    Parent

    When did they fire bomb Tokyo? (1.00 / 1) (#19)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 02:28:51 PM EST
    when did they ever sit at home in their armchairs and pleasure themselves thinking about Churchill and Ariel Sharon, the way Jim does.

    Parent
    When we defeated (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 02:43:11 PM EST
    Japan the new constitution gave women rights.

    OTOH radical islam supports Honor Killings.

    Parent