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Thursday Open Thread

Where has this week gone? I've am just swamped with work and have a lot to do before I can focus on the news and blogging. Hopefully, I'll catch up over the weekend.

In the meantime, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Another one bites the dust (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Nemi on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:39:03 AM EST
    Judge Rejects Sanders Supporters' Voting Suit:

    "There is absolutely no showing of a federal violation. That more information might be available in one county over another does not rise to the level of equal protection," [Judge] Alsup said. "Citizens of California are smart enough to know what their rights are. I'm giving my order now so you can get your writ to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and then the United States Supreme Court, then the International Court of the Hague. But you're done in federal court."

    Nice one, Judge. :)

    Along side the (none / 0) (#4)
    by Suisser1 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:55:09 AM EST
    American  Independence Party which apparently has experiences a surge in voter registration (affiliation?) in CA when Sanders' supporters thought that's where "Independents" should register. Not.


    Parent
    Still can't get over the headline (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:40:08 AM EST
    of Trump losing his PGA Tournament to Mexico. It's right out of The Onion. Rory McIlroy may have said it best, "We'll just jump over the wall." Trump stayed his classy self, "I hope they have kidnapping insurance."

    There's nothing funny about it. (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 11:59:54 AM EST
    This is where I played on the beach as a little kid.  It has gone to he$$.

    Now, nobody I know goes anywhere but Cancun and the other heavily policed and souless pseudo-paradises.  Why freakin' bother.

    Parent

    Mexico still has lower per capita gun deaths (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 12:14:58 PM EST
    than the US. And from I can find Mexico City has a much lower murder rate than Miami. Perhaps it's a very smart move on their part.

    Parent
    The only thing that makes your post (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 07:58:01 AM EST
    even remotely accurate is the United States fifteen times higher suicide rate, 6.69/100k vs Mexico's 0.44/100k per year.  Absent that, Mexico's gun homicide rate is double that of the United States.

    And how did Mexico City even get in the discussion?

    Parent

    If you were paying any attention to the topic (none / 0) (#133)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 08:30:31 AM EST
    you'd realize Mexico City and Miami are the most important stats of the comment.

    Parent
    Mexico City has double the murder rate (none / 0) (#141)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:19:10 AM EST
    of the Miami metro area 5.9/100k(2012,6M population) in any of the statistics I could find.  The only way to skew the stats toward your implied position is to compare the murder rate in the 440,000 population City of Miami proper, @19.2/100k(2014) to the 17.3/100k(2012), 11.57/100k(2014) rate for metro Ciudad Mexico's 24M population.

    Parent
    Mexico City's murder rate per capita (none / 0) (#148)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:47:25 AM EST

    is far lower than Miami. I stand by the stat.


    Parent
    You "stand by" your ignorance. (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:05:32 AM EST
    You've proven my point. Thank you. (none / 0) (#165)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:32:04 AM EST
    The City of Miami is higher per capita than Mexico City. Not surrounding cities. Miami vs Mexico City.

    Parent
    Rubbish (none / 0) (#173)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 11:04:10 AM EST
    You're attempting to compare stats inside Miami's original city limits to those of the agglomeration that comprises Ciudad de Mexico's 21-24 Million inhabitants.  The latter comprises between 18 and 41 distinct adjacent municipalities, depending on which planner's definitions is chosen.  Mexico City proper is only about 20% of the total area.

    Why are you so intent on disparaging Miami's population?


    Parent

    You've figured me out (none / 0) (#177)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 11:43:37 AM EST
    I find it funny that the tournament at Trump National moved to Mexico because I hate Miami and would never consider visiting there.

    Parent
    According to these two links (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:36:14 AM EST
    Mexicos murder rate is, indeed, lower than Miami.  The newest data was from 2012 for Miami.

    Miami 16.8 per 100,000

    Mexico 15.7 per 100,000

    Parent

    Howdy (none / 0) (#172)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:44:56 AM EST
    all of our stat bickering is actually meaningless. This WGC tournament has been played in 3 or 4 different countries over the years. Mexico just adds another to the list. They moved because they couldn't get a sponsor at Trump National. No one wanted to be a part of the Trump name and Trump obviously had no interest in sponsoring it himself.

    Still, I find it damn funny it heads to Mexico.

    Parent

    Want to know why so many in the LGBT (5.00 / 6) (#10)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:57:34 AM EST
    community support Clinton? This is one reason:

    Lieutenant Governor of California Gavin Newsom published this on his Facebook page today:
    In 2004, after I ordered the city clerk to give same-sex couples marriage licenses, I quickly became a pariah in the Democratic Party. I was accused of endangering Sen. Kerry's campaign for president, my speech at the national convention was cancelled, and most hurtful, major democratic candidates and elected officials -- some of whom were my friends -- refused to be photographed with me or even be in the same room with me. I was being demonized by the left and the right. Only one major figure in the Dem party was willing to be photographed with me: Hillary Clinton. In 2004, we did an event together down at Delancey Street in San Francisco. I'll never forget that moment -- that when I was being attacked for my position on same sex marriage and what we did in San Francisco, she was willing to stand with me in public when no one else was. ‪#‎ImWithHer‬

    Clinton has been there for the LGBT community in so many ways for so very long. She was out front with her support in a very public way long before marriage equality became the headline issue. Yes, same-sex marriage is an important milestone, but it is hardly the be-all and end-all of our struggle for equality under the law.

    I remember very clearly when this happened, when the Democratic establishment turned Newsom, who was at that time arising star in the Party,  into a pariah. Hardly the Democratic Party's finest hour. When push came to shove for Gavin Newsom, Hillary Clinton was the one, the only one, who stood with him and with the LGBT community.

    I remember the riduculous (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 10:00:17 AM EST
    bad treatment of Newsom. did not recall Hillary supporting him at that time, but am glad to hear it.

    Newsom should be on anyone's short list of future progressive national leaders.

    Parent

    I appreciate what Gavin Newsom did in 2004. (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 02:25:27 PM EST
    That said, I'm not as enthralled by him as others seem to be. Speaking for myself only, my respect for him plunged markedly when he seduced and schtupped the wife of his own campaign manager.

    From my perspective and experience, I tend to believe that loyalty to one's own team is an essential ingredient for a candidate's success in politics. I consider Newsom's personal betrayal of his friend and colleague to be an appallingly low thing for him to have done, and it's really hard for me to respect someone like that at a base level. While it may not necessarily be a disqualifying factor, it certainly speaks to his personal trustworthiness, and I would look first to other Democrats before I ever turned to him.

    To be perfectly honest, were I still a California resident, I'd likely support State Treasurer John Chiang's bid to be Gov. Jerry Brown's successor in 2018, rather than Lt. Gov. Newsom, for that very reason.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I remember that (none / 0) (#86)
    by pitachips on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:18:22 PM EST
    Will be interesting to see if it continues to hurt him. I remember it doing some serious damage during his first run for governor.

    Parent
    Gavin Newsom has done a pretty good job ... (none / 0) (#93)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:54:12 PM EST
    ... thus far at rebuilding his reputation by being a good team player as lieutenant governor. I was just speaking for myself only, when I called him my Democrat of last resort. What he did by cuckolding his campaign manager appalled me. If the race is between Newsom and John Chiang, all things being equal, I go with Chiang in the Democratic primary. But if CA voters decide that Newsom is the nominee, of course I'll support him.

    Parent
    But will you endorse him (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:00:41 PM EST
    I'm no Paul Ryan. (none / 0) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:22:22 PM EST
    Were Newsom running against a Republican, yeah, I'd endorse him in a heartbeat. no problem. But in a Democratic primary, I'm like, "C'mon, you guys, can't you find someone else?" But that's just me. If other people really don't have a problem with what he did, I can respect that. It's a personal call.

    Parent
    Especially since you are not elegible (none / 0) (#105)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:51:59 PM EST
    to vote in CA.

    Parent
    I love Gavin Newsom (none / 0) (#137)
    by MKS on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 08:53:45 AM EST
    He has real talent.

    But he sure can make big mistakes.  Another one was his comment of marriage equality coming to California "whether you like it or not."  Replayed by the Prop 8 people over and over again.  

    It will be interesting to see what happens.  I think he could be this generation's version of Jerry Brown.

    Parent

    If you'll cheat your friends, you'll cheat anyone (none / 0) (#153)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:59:59 AM EST
    Among the great speeches (5.00 / 5) (#19)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 10:33:52 AM EST
    given by an American leader: Gay Rights are Human Rights, United Nations, Geneva,Switzerland, Dec 7, 2011. It is difficult to fathom the frequent comment that Mrs. Clinton is uninspiring.  This was a blunt, courageous and inspiring speech by a US Secretary of State not just for the world's gay community, but also, and particularly for, all the world community.  

    Parent
    I am unsure why a California loss is so... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Cashmere on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 09:42:44 AM EST
    devastating for Hillary if she loses to Bernie.  In 2008, Hillary won California, but that did not impact Obama's momentum going in to the convention.  I think California was earlier in 2008, but still.  This is just more media hype.  They want to encourage the race for their ratings.

    If Sanders was trying to win (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 10:21:59 AM EST
    he would be campaigning in Puerto Rico, New Jersey and New Mexico the same way he is in California. He's no longer trying to win. He's launching a 3-point shot at the buzzer trying to make the video highlights on "The Plays Of The Day" while losing badly throughout the game.

    Parent
    Just trying to make the highlights.. (none / 0) (#22)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 10:49:33 AM EST
    This site-meme promulgated by some that Sander's campaign has been about nothing but self aggrandizement, is like saying that he has no sense of justice and civic duty, which would, in effect, make him something approaching a sociopath..

    No one's suggesting that that's the case, are they?

    Parent

    Nope not at all (none / 0) (#23)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 11:08:05 AM EST
    But next Tuesday that's all he's trying to accomplish. We'll see on Wednesday where he really stands.

    Parent
    Certainly he can wait until after the DC primary (none / 0) (#25)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 11:15:40 AM EST
    the following week if he so chooses since he'll be flying there anyway.

    Parent
    Ha. (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:32:51 PM EST
    So it's still up in the air (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 11:46:26 AM EST
    where he really stands..

    That mysterious man of many faces.

    Parent

    Wrong again (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 11:58:15 AM EST
    One's real self shows through when you lose. Whether Sanders wants to help the cause or prefers the role of a backbench curmudgeon is up to him.

    Parent
    Boy I'm just wrong about everything (3.00 / 2) (#37)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 12:32:08 PM EST
    today, aren't I?

    I think we could use a few million more back bench curmudgeons to get organized and loudly remind the public continually of all the things people like Hillary are too daunted, and or personally compromised to talk about.

    It's the American way. Part of how we fine tune our grand experiment in democracy.

    Parent

    The most backbenchers (none / 0) (#38)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 12:39:04 PM EST
    you can get in the Senate is 50 but you're welcome to try and get a few million in there.

    Parent
    Goldman Sachs (none / 0) (#39)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 12:54:13 PM EST
    could probably get it done. Next week.

    Parent
    That's not worth a detailed response (none / 0) (#48)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 02:40:20 PM EST
    It would help if Bernie would (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by MKS on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 08:55:08 AM EST
    release his tax returns.

    Parent
    They (none / 0) (#139)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:08:26 AM EST
    are not going to be released.

    Parent
    I think it is getting pretty clear where he stands (none / 0) (#157)
    by vml68 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:06:44 AM EST
    Ugh (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:15:19 AM EST
    talk about entitlement and privilege. Bernie is starting to reek of it.

    Parent
    Honestly (none / 0) (#180)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 11:57:10 AM EST
    This is becoming funny.  Even MSNBC doesn't care any more.

    Parent
    No matter the California outcome (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 10:30:56 AM EST
    Clinton will be named the presumptive nominee at 8pm Tuesday evening.

    She'll get half the delegates she still needs to reach that goal this weekend in PR and VI. New Jersey becomes the cake, the frosting, and the cherry on top. Before polls close in California the headlines will have been written and put to bed.

    Parent

    I've been pretty much appalled overall with (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Cashmere on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 10:43:39 AM EST
    the "rigged" complaints and the "Bernie is being robbed" aspect of his campaign, and the MSM's need to repeat these claims and hype them.  In 2008, if I recall, at the start of the campaign, Hillary also had the support of the majority of superdelegates.  As Obama won, and gained momentum, they slowly dripped over to support Obama, such that he overwhelmingly won the supers in the end.  But that was because Obama was ahead in "pledged delegates".  

    The media is happy to point out similarities between 2008 and now when they are damaging to Hillary, such as their constant insistance that Hillary was going to fight to the convention in 2008 as well, but they do not seem to discredit this whole superdelegate "rigged from the start" from Bernie's campaign, even though it reflects what happened in 2008 with Hillary having early super D support.

    Wish I didn't care about all of this, but it annoys me very much.


    Parent

    Saying you're going to fight to the convention (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 11:13:57 AM EST
    and fighting to the convention are two different things.

    Clinton dropped out June 7, 2008 even though she led in the popular vote.

    Parent

    Question: New Jersey declaration effect? (none / 0) (#27)
    by christinep on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 11:40:24 AM EST
    Glancing through various comments in various places in recent days, I read an interesting theory or question about whether the NJ results--at least, presumed to be quite good for HRC--would have any impact on the percentage outcome in the California race.  Particularly, is there any reason to believe that the west coast contest, which is reportedly close, could be effected by broadcasting's announcement that a candidate (HRC) is the putative nominee approximately 3 hours before voting closes in California?

    Theory:  California individuals either not so invested in their candidate and/or seeing the NJ outcome may feel a what's-the-use or it-doesn't-matter sense leading to a few percentage points lesser turnout in that state.  (Years ago, there was a bit of an uproar on the west coast during general elections when announcements of victory were made before voting--or, in the case of Denver--hearing the news that the election was resolved by the time one got home from voting.  See 1980 and 1984.)

    Parent

    If they have any math skills (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 11:54:19 AM EST
    They know it's already over. They shouldn't need a news announcement sometime after 5pm in California to realize that. But certainly Sanders' fans should get their butts out the door and vote anywhere the primaries have not yet been held and not pull a kdog on their preferred candidate.

    Parent
    Bernie can do it. I know he can. (none / 0) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 10:27:32 PM EST
    All he needs is 90% of the remaining vote and like that guy said on Huffington Post, if Hillary doesn't get 59% of the popular vote then she should not be the nominee, and for the sake of the Democratic Party the superdelegates should instead hand the nomination to the guy who got 43% because you see, it all makes perfect sense why can't you see that because I can see that and everyone else can see that so why can't you see that the revolution is inevitable and those who aren't with us are against us because Bernie is The Man and I think that window pane finally kicked in.

    Parent
    Those that never learn the primary process (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 10:41:59 PM EST
    are doomed to be duped until reality smacks them in the face.

    Parent
    Bernie will stay in (none / 0) (#120)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 05:43:47 AM EST
    Until the results of the FBI primary are in.

    And judging from the the Inspector General report,

    The FBI primary is now quite precarious for Madame Sec,

    Although recent polling indicates that may not matter , much like The Donald and his supporters....

    Half of all likely voters say an indictment should not stop Hillary Clinton from running for president, according to a new poll released Tuesday.

    Even if Clinton faces a felony indictment over her use of a private email server during her time as secretary of State, 50 percent of respondents said she should stay in the race until a court decides whether she's guilty or innocent, the Rasmussen Reports survey found.
    Forty-three percent said the Democratic presidential front-runner should immediately stop campaigning if an indictment comes.

    The poll found voters divided along party lines. Seventy-one percent of Democrats said she should keep running even if she's indicted, while only 30 percent of Republicans and 46 percent of independent voters said so.



    Parent
    In your dreams, perhaps. (none / 0) (#178)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 11:48:23 AM EST
    In the real world, she's as likely to be indicted for a felony as you are or I am.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#195)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:44:10 PM EST
    In  the real world, any lower level State Department employee that did exactly the same thing as Madame Sec would already have submitted a plea deal or preparing for trial

    Parent
    Trevor: The Deep End (none / 0) (#190)
    by christinep on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:22:56 PM EST
    Where you appear to have moved so openly now is the infamous Deep End. A place of desperation....

    Earlier, it seemed, you attempted arguments that one could accept or, at least, read without laughing.  There will be no indictment.  We all know that ... except maybe those who while away their time heeding right-wing talk shows ... and, I'm thinking that you have become a product of that cult.

    Try to be creative, if you must occupy yourself with inventions.

    Parent

    Please (none / 0) (#196)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:45:22 PM EST
    Re read the State Department Inspector General report.

    The actions that they document violate criminal law

    Parent

    They (5.00 / 3) (#197)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:51:01 PM EST
    only do if you cherry pick it like most conservatives have been doing. So when is Colin Powell going to get indicted? He's not and neither is Hillary. It's all a white knight silly conservative fantasy and no lower level person is getting in trouble either. But it is obvious that all this has now become political with the GOP making up the facts as they go along.

    Parent
    Actually, Trevor (none / 0) (#199)
    by christinep on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 01:00:06 PM EST
    in terms of intent and other prerequisites to meet the level you suggest, the strongest conclusion that I could find from the IG is that the private server system was "inappropriate."  

    The situation never has been even within range of considering a criminal charge of any king.  The legal community knows that; and, so does the overall federal enforcement community.  Perhaps, you reside in a "community" on a planet far, far away from here ....

    Parent

    Maybe not (none / 0) (#201)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 01:12:03 PM EST
    It appears she can be prosecuted for tese

    Espionage Act's 18 USC 793, known as the "gross negligence" statute...

    "[The] report will be useful as rebuttal, potential evidence in 18 USC 1001 charges and establishing aspects of 18 USC 793," the source said.

    Parent

    Different in that a primary is not a national (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 01:07:49 PM EST
    election where all the states vote on the same day. If they were going to be discouraged from voting by the highly likely fact that Clinton will be the nominee, they should already be discouraged by the current delegate count and huge lead in the raw vote.

    Parent
    That does give me an idea though...maybe (none / 0) (#41)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 01:09:52 PM EST
    all the caucus and primary votes should be kept secret until the end. Wouldn't that be interesting.

    Parent
    Open the envelopes at the convention (none / 0) (#42)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 01:17:23 PM EST
    'wow, Iowa - look what you did!'

    I like it!

    Parent

    ruffian: "wow, Iowa - look what you did!"

    .. when Iowans elected as their U.S. Senator a woman who believes that the Apollo 11 moon landing was a hoax.

    ;-D

    Parent

    Donald: In the Repub veep stakes (none / 0) (#191)
    by christinep on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:28:52 PM EST
    Husband here is betting that the Iowa what's-her-name (Ernst??) may well be the chosen one.  Donald Trump may imagine that all he need do in that department is plaster a woman's picture in the supporting role to garner Iowa & other parts of the Midwest and to soften women voters toward him.  Care to comment?

    Parent
    Yes, that would be fascinating (none / 0) (#44)
    by christinep on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 01:24:09 PM EST
    As I recall, the result of the national election dilemma <in the early announcement situation years back> was an agreement by the networks to hold results until voting closed.

    As for the present New Jersey/California primary situation, your statement--of course--is logical.  The only thing that I would add is: Sometimes people (voters) are not all that logical ... e.g., denial of the inevitable math can persist a long time ... in which case it may take the actual results this week, let's say, in Puerto Rico and the results in New Jersey and maybe even New Mexico to confront earlier daydreams ... voting reality for certain subsets of voters can knock some for a loop, sending them for a beer(s) rather than to the voting booth.  IMO and experience only.

    Parent

    I getcha...as you can tell I am about done (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 02:11:09 PM EST
    taking this primary contest seriously. Bravo to those that can still do it and worry about people knocking off for beers in SF instead of voting.

    Parent
    Really enjoying (none / 0) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:12:52 PM EST
    My new relationship with web tv.  Yesterday binged Ray Donavon (you a fan?  I think you would be.  The writing is amazing) today starting to catch up on Homeland.   I dropped Showtime mid season.

    Parent
    I tried Ray Donovan and it didn't take. (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:30:14 PM EST
    I think I wasn't in the mood for that kind of story.

    Almost caught up on Penny Dreadful- so good! Eva Greene is amazing. I think I've already said that a lot. Just finished the white room episode.

    The Americans gave me a life lesson....remind them who they are, give them what they want. thank you Gabriel! But it sounds like the Trimp campaign. Uh-oh.

    Parent

    Also, watching Morning Joe, which I should not do, (none / 0) (#14)
    by Cashmere on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 09:45:34 AM EST
    as it typically makes my blood pressure rise with their constant fawning over Bernie Sanders.

    Parent
    Are their federal statutes (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Green26 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 11:34:41 AM EST
    to protect federal judges from undue intimidation and verbal attacks and threats by citizens and litigants? I assume there are. I'm thinking of Trump's attacks on the federal judge. Legal experts are talking about Constitutional issues, but I wonder if there are laws that are coming close to be broken.

    I would think that Trump could ... (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 01:49:08 PM EST
    ... be held in contempt for publicly disparaging the judge who's overseeing two of the three federal suits against him, but oculus suggested that he actually needs to be offering such remarks in court in order to be sanctioned. So I'm really not sure myself.

    Parent
    Woody Allen once said (none / 0) (#56)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 04:58:55 PM EST
    he was disciplined for cheating on a metaphysics exam--he looked into the soul of the student next to him.  

    Discipline, in this case, is also a tricky balancing of freedom of expression, protected by the constitution and interference with the administration of justice (contempt).

     Certainly, if Trump's attorney impugned the integrity of the Court with accusations of bias he/she would be subject to sanctions having little Constitutional protections and, --clearly so, if in court, and possibly, outside of court.

      In the case of Trump's intemperate, if not hateful, speech, it is not so straight forward, but a ruling of the Court can serve, in effect, as a sanction, such as striking a brief.

    Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who is overseeing this fraud case, did decide (against the wishes of Trump's attorneys) to order release of Trump University documents as a matter of public interest.  The judge noted that the integrity of the Court proceedings were at issue.

    The larger problem is Trump's stunt of political delegitimization: A judge who disagrees with Trump is not only corrupt, but a thinly veiled nod to racial resentment, if not worse.

     Bias is evident because of speculation that the judge is "Mexican," a hater, and, essentially, not really an American. The position that Trump holds as the presidential nominee of the Republican party, may, through his modeling for his followers, and not exclusively his favorites, the poorly educated, undermine public confidence in the judiciary.  It is OK for scurrilous abuse of a judge hearing your case. If he disagrees with you.
     

    Parent

    Trump's gambit: to publicly and often (none / 0) (#131)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 08:28:05 AM EST
    insult the judge.  Then when the case is decided against Trump, Trump will accuse the judge of having made a biased decision, the judge having been so publicly and often insulted by Trump.

    TrumpLogik for a TrumpWorld.

    Parent

    And the capitulation of Paul Ryan is complete (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 03:06:26 PM EST
    Ryan says he's voting for Trump and it should be considered an endorsement.  Can't wait to see Ryan  on stage with Trump, with the 1000 mile stare.

    WTF (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 04:59:04 PM EST
    Does that even mean.  if he is allowed to get away with that there really is no independent press.

    do you f&@king endorse him or not.

    Parent

    Ryan got away with his sub-3 hr. marathon BS. (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 05:55:39 PM EST
    If the media wasn't going to go after him for that, or take down Trump wholeheartedly over the "Mexican" judge remarks or the obvious racketeering scheme that's Trump University, why would they hold Ryan's feet to the fire for this?

    Parent
    Because he is the third in line (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:06:23 PM EST
    For the presidency.  He is the Speaker of the House.  He is the Chairman of the Repiblican nominating convention.

    Every time he sticks his head out of his office between now and Election Day he should be asked if he endorses the republican nominee for president or not.  Not if he is voting for him, rooting for him, cheering for him or pi$$ing on him.  Are you, Mr Speaker, ENDORSING him.

    Parent

    To me (none / 0) (#64)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:13:17 PM EST
    publicly saying you are voting for someone means more than a silly endorsement. Campaigning for him being bigger than saying you will vote for him.

    Parent
    We will agree to disagree (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:32:57 PM EST
    He should be forced to say if he endorses not only him but every foul thing he says.  Trump is the head of the Republican Party.  Ryan is the Republican Speaker of the House.

    Parent
    He already (none / 0) (#88)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:29:28 PM EST
    Stated that he has many positions they disagree on.
    b
    ut every foul thing he says.  

    So I doubt he will endorse every foul thing he says

    Parent

    im sure (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:00:11 PM EST
    that is specific enough for you.  it should not be for a free press

    Parent
    I don't care if he's the Second Coming. (none / 0) (#97)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:04:44 PM EST
    Ryan says he's voting for Trump. Given that he's Speaker, I interpret that as an endorsement and will take every opportunity to hang that around his neck. Whether or not he actually drops to his knees in front of Trump at the convention and fluffs him onstage is immaterial to me.

    Parent
    Yes - a good approach is to treat Ryan like (none / 0) (#103)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:35:11 PM EST
    we assume he has endorsed Trump. Let him deny it if he chooses.

    Parent
    thats reasonable (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:47:05 PM EST
    and of course "we" will.  my point is the press is not.   i heard several times today, well, he "stopped short of endorsing him".  hes just voting for him.  and he is, you know, a republican.

    they are going to let him get away with this.  i think that sucks.   Ryan is not just another republican.  he is one of the two other people in government that would make a Trump agenda real.

    he should be held accountable.  and not just by liberals on blogs.

    Parent

    Ryan (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:43:08 PM EST
    is using pretty much the same statement a lot of Republicans have been saying. It must be some phrase Frank Luntz thought up but the phrase has been "I support Trump but don't endorse him".

    Parent
    If Trump was an equally insane Democrat (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:47:54 PM EST
    How long do you think elected Democrats and officials would get away with that?

    Parent
    Zero (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:51:53 PM EST
    They would be asked every day about it. I find it hard to believe no one in the press has even bothered to ask those who have said "support but don't endorse" exactly what do they mean? but then again, we're dealing with the press in this country who would be okay with a crazy person as president as long as it increased their ratings.

    Parent
    Hey! You've had Obama for 8 years (none / 0) (#109)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 09:22:49 PM EST
    Thank God for That (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 09:39:19 PM EST
    And now 8 years of Clinton. Life is good.

    Parent
    When the right wing (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 05:45:27 PM EST
    Franz von Papen convinced President von Hindenburg to appoint Adolph Hitler, Chancellor, von Papen told his supporters, yes, "we hired him."   What could go wrong.

    Parent
    The (none / 0) (#51)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 03:38:23 PM EST
    hostile takeover is complete, all hail the ReTrumplican party.

    Parent
    A Republican "lie-off" (none / 0) (#52)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 04:20:55 PM EST
    Ryan can tell us about his sub-three minute marathon, and Trump can tell us about--his policies du jour.

    Parent
    Clinton just (5.00 / 4) (#50)
    by smott on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 03:20:21 PM EST
    Destroyed Trump in her speech.


    HRC's strong, smart, superb speech (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by christinep on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 04:24:18 PM EST
    Loved the subject, style, delivery ...alternating the stiletto attack on Trump's no-nothingness with a deft synthesis of her demonstrated foreign policy experience, followed by clear and specific descriptions of her approach in key international venues ... it worked, it worked very well.  A bonus part--in my view--came in the manner in which HRC delivered the attack ... wrapped in facts, at times with a humorous touch, adding up to a genuine bravura performance that approached evisceration of Trump's bully persona.  As husband & I said to each other almost in unison: "She is humiliating him."  Justifiably.

    Parent
    A great speech and strategy. (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 05:30:32 PM EST
    Use Trump's own words not only for the specific bizarre stream of unconsciousness, but also, to emphasize his unstable temperament.  Mrs. Clinton's speech brought out the Trumpian contextual meltdown  of a Captain Queeg ranting about who ate the strawberries.

    Parent
    And now HRC has a tweet linking to (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 11:13:12 AM EST
    each citation of Trump in her speech followed by the statement he had made.

    Parent
    Is the Clinton campaign (none / 0) (#181)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:03:41 PM EST
    running clips for the weekend?  I would assume that was part of the plan.

    Parent
    Excellent speech. Excellent (5.00 / 3) (#110)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 09:25:28 PM EST
    delivery. Bravo.

    Parent
    And all he could come up with (none / 0) (#54)
    by smott on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 04:29:07 PM EST
    Was a weak little Jr-high tweet about teleprompters.

    He's a monstrosity.

    Parent

    "Telepromter" (none / 0) (#55)
    by Nemi on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 04:41:27 PM EST
    actually. :-/

    Parent
    And here's Bernie Sanders's (none / 0) (#125)
    by Nemi on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 07:32:19 AM EST
    (petty) reaction to Hillary Clinton's speech: Reminding his followers of ... her Iraq vote.

    From Melissa McEwan at BNR.

    Parent

    Tweeters woill respond: but you voted (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 07:57:28 AM EST
    to fund the Iraq disaster, Bernie.

    Parent
    Slam! (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Nemi on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 05:00:39 PM EST
    Of course Trump doesn't have answers to those questions. Donald Trump doesn't know the first thing about Iran or its nuclear program. Ask him. It'll become very clear, very quickly.

    There's no risk of people losing their lives if you blow up a golf-course deal.

    But it doesn't work like that in world affairs. Just like being interviewed on the same episode of "60 Minutes" as Putin was, is not the same thing as actually dealing with Putin.

    So the stakes in global statecraft are infinitely higher and more complex than in the world of luxury hotels. We all know the tools Donald Trump brings to the table - bragging, mocking, composing nasty tweets - I'm willing to bet he's writing a few right now.

    Transcript

    Parent

    Her experience (3.67 / 3) (#112)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 09:46:56 PM EST
    brought us a collapsed Libya controlled by terrorists and dead Americans in Benghazi...

    And she reset the button with Putin and he's buzzing our ships...

    Ah yes, the smartest woman in the world has such a great resume...

    Parent

    But she had it right (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by Nemi on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 04:41:04 AM EST
    he was

    bragging, mocking, composing nasty tweets - I'm willing to bet he's writing a few right now.

    Not the kind of leadership, I'm looking for. Your mileage obviously differ. Fine with me.

    Parent

    We should be cheered (none / 0) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:01:00 AM EST
    That ppj is a Trump guy.  He is probably a pretty typical Trump supporter.  IMO there are basically two kinds of Trump supporters.  There is the kind covered in the POLITICO link provided by Natural down thread who imagine themselves as liberals but who are really single issue voters, that issue being CDS, and there is the ignorant, racist, climate denying white privileges types.   With him it's double your pleasure.

    But we should be pleased because at least half of them are mostly a dying breed.  I read that of the people (registered voters actually) who have shuffled off the mortal coil since the last election about 75% are white.  Probably most of them would have voted for Donald.

    Parent

    POLITICO (again) (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:09:50 AM EST
    Since the average Republican is significantly older than the average Democrat, far more Republicans than Democrats have died since the 2012 elections. To make matters worse, the GOP is attracting fewer first-time voters. Unless the party is able to make inroads with new voters, or discover a fountain of youth, the GOP's slow demographic slide will continue election to election. Actuarial tables make that part clear, but just how much of a problem for the GOP is this?
    Since it appears that no political data geek keeps track of voters who die between elections, I took it upon myself to do some basic math. And that quick back-of-the-napkin math shows that the trend could have a real effect in certain states, and make a battleground states like Florida and Ohio even harder for the Republican Party to capture.
    By combining presidential election exit polls with mortality rates per age group from the U.S. Census Bureau, I calculated that, of the 61 million who voted for Mitt Romney in 2012, about 2.75 million will be dead by the 2016 election. President Barack Obama's voters, of course, will have died too--about 2.3 million of the 66 million who voted for the president won't make it to 2016 either. That leaves a big gap in between, a difference of roughly 453,000 in favor of the Democrats.



    Parent
    Yeah, (none / 0) (#163)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:26:24 AM EST
    this has been talked about since 2012 and hence the GOP autopsy report. The GOP seemed to think putting a different face on the same decrepit issues was going to work. Basically they have a choice to make. Either roll the ppj's of the world under the bus and move on or have the GOP die and create a new party out of the ashes. I have a few friends who think the latter is going to happen and this election is going to be the end of the GOP. I have my doubts about that myself.

    Parent
    It won't be the end (none / 0) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:40:29 AM EST
    The argument will be Trump was a flawed candidate who was not a "real" conservative.

    Parent
    If they (none / 0) (#176)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 11:26:35 AM EST
    can't get the message after winning the popular vote once since 1992 I have to wonder if it might be easier to actually start a new party for some Republicans but that would depend on a big IF they could get enough people to leave and join the new party.

    Parent
    I just watched the speech (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:14:57 PM EST
    It was rather remarkable.

    Parent
    Here it is (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:20:56 PM EST
    But now she is in danger of being (none / 0) (#73)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:39:54 PM EST
    flayed alive. Talk about the religious right. St. Bartholomew holding his own skin, all in one piece, removed from his body.

    Parent
    Ah, but the various Repubs/opposition (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by christinep on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:56:47 PM EST
    have tried that already for years--she has everything thrown at her, including the old "kitchen sink," and she is standing stronger, taller than ever. As you know, the fact that she has prevailed through it all is no accident.  It is something ... a lesson in perseverance and dedication, I think.

    The question is more about when--not if--Donald Trump melts/collapses/loses it publicly (or whatever we might call it?)  She is pushing, pulling, and baiting.

    Parent

    I don't understand this comment (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:49:05 PM EST
    Why would she be any more so than she was yesterday?

    Parent
    Gov. Perry's rebuttal to HRC's foreign (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:55:28 PM EST
    policy speech

    Parent
    I first I've heard of it (none / 0) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:57:21 PM EST
    Who cares what Rick Perry says.  What did he say?  I don't care enough to google.

    Parent
    Ah, I see (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:02:37 PM EST
    Donald Trump will peel her skin off in a debate setting," Perry said. "Donald Trump will peel her skin off in a debate setting and actually he'll peel it off this evening [during a campaign event] out in San Jose as well."

    Yeah, well.

    We will see who gets peeled

    Parent

    Oh, yeah, (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:24:16 PM EST
    says the guy who fell over in a debate? Hillary will stomp Rick Perry so bad he'll be needing lots of those pain killers for his back again.

    Parent
    Just turned on the NOOZE (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:30:57 PM EST
    An hour or so ago.  The funniest-  Hillary gives a great speech but "we have seen how good Trump is in debates"

    This is ridiculous.  We have seen Trump in republican debates against other republicans who were terrified of him with republican audiences that every one else on the stage was terrified of offending if they pointed out how Batsh!t crazy every thing out of his mouth was.

    Hillary will slaughter him in a debate.

    Parent

    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:22:16 PM EST
    That is ridiculous. He's Bernie with a bigger vocabulary.

    My husband has on Rachel Maddow and I don't know if I've ever laughed at a foreign policy speech but Hillary sure made me laugh at Donald A LOT. Man, she was slaughtering him and then says she's sure he's going to put up a bunch of tweets in response.  

    Parent

    Cnn: (none / 0) (#94)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:56:04 PM EST
    the pundits all agree Hillary slammed it out of the park.....but of course it "opens up her record to scrutiny and criticisms"(as if that has never happened before).

    Trump surrogates of course are barking mad, accusing Hillary of being the worst SOS ever, making up history(or erasing it) as they go. the talking heads just nod along.

    Parent

    Rick "Ed Gein" Perry (none / 0) (#89)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:29:37 PM EST
    must've seen Silence of the Lambs one too many times.

    Parent
    There are three parts of Hillary Clinton (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:31:59 PM EST
    I want to peel.....

    Parent
    Gov. Perry? Seriously? (none / 0) (#98)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:13:55 PM EST
    That guy couldn't even handle Louis Black. "Remember the Alamo? Neither do we. F--- Texas."

    Parent
    Yes, it was really good. (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:59:33 PM EST
    Leveled Trump, of course.  But, also too, Bernie in subtle subtext: (a) by ignoring him during the last stages of the primary, and (b) by reminding all that a foreign policy attack on Trump is a uniquely effective one, along the lines of the little girl with the daisy, in LBJ v Goldwater.

    Parent
    Shorter Hillary: (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:31:25 PM EST
    "In your guts, you know he's nuts."

    Parent
    I am enjoying the irony of the PGA (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Green26 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 05:19:25 PM EST
    moving its golf tournament from Trump's Doral course in Florida to a course in Mexico (near Mexico City). Perhaps the PGA wanted to get to Mexico before the wall went up.

    Actually, from what I've read, the sponsorship deal with Cadillac ended this year, so a new sponsor was needed. Sponsors were hesitant to do the event at a Trump course, because Trump's brand would interfere with their branding and, of course, the bad Trump association stuff going on now. The PGA apparently felt similarly.

    Trump's comment was that he hoped they had good kidnapping insurance.

    HRC v. DJT today - Thursday 6-2-16 (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by Ladyjustice on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 10:53:44 PM EST
         Watched excerpts of Trump retort to HRC foreign policy speech.  She said she would leave it to psychiatrists to explain . . . .  And earlier in the campaign, Candidate Jeb Bush said, Trump "needs therapy."  MSNBC AND CNN presented clips of his rants and denials of previous statements he made. Were lies being exposed or did Trump actually forget what he said.  HRC is right to say that Trump is unfit.  He cannot seem to remember what he has said, and constantly repeats himself -- his stories keep changing?  Normal behavior is recognizable, and Trump is not normal.  After watching tonight, I am more convinced than ever that he is suffering from dementia or some delusional disorder.  Please will a psychiatrist come forward and comment.  His behavior is irrational.  IMO
         Majority of round-table pundits tonight were all extremely positive of HRC foreign policy speech.  Good to hear, and she will definitely get a stronger following after tonight.  

    I don't think you (none / 0) (#189)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:22:19 PM EST
    need to be a Board Certified psychiatrist to observe that Trump is emotionally labile.  Very insecure, it seems, and, needing ongoing affirmation of his self-identified greatness.  

    He is, in his own right, a successful real estate developer and reality show performer. You would think that he could stand on his accomplishments. A psychiatrist would be needed to get below the surface and mine the clinical genesis, but the pathology is there for all who care to see it.

    Trump's retort at his subsequent San Jose rally was more unhinged that is customary for him.  Of all Mrs. Clinton's criticisms, the one foremost in his speech was the danger of putting his finger (little) on the button (large).  Apparently, a particularly sore point.

    Trump's mentor and clubbing friend, Roy Cohn, exhibited many of the same unattractive and destructive human qualities. A study of Cohn provides a decent road map to Trump. Cohn, the anti-gay, gay man and anti-semitic, Jewish man, must have found Trump to be a good student for his arrogant and bullying tactics for which Cohn was notorious.

    Parent

    Politico Reporter Given das Boot by der Trump (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 01:20:56 PM EST
    Politico reported that Ben Schreckinger had been typing on his laptop at the event at the San Jose Convention Center when he was approached by a Trump campaign staffer. After consulting with higher-ups, the aide and a private security staffer reportedly escorted Schreckinger out of the venue. Schreckinger had entered on a general admission ticket after repeatedly being denied press credentials for Trump events.

    "I was removed from Donald Trump's rally tonight for practicing journalism without the campaign's permission," he wrote on Twitter.



    RIP, Muhammad Ali (1942-2016). (5.00 / 3) (#214)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 04, 2016 at 03:04:19 AM EST
    "Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given, than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing."

    There's really nothing I can say that won't be said over the next few days. Suffice to say that we likely won't see the likes of him again in our lifetimes.

    Aloha to a true world champion, both in and out of the boxing ring.

    Jon Bon Jovi and Corey Booker (none / 0) (#1)
    by fishcamp on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:29:07 AM EST
    appeared at a political rally in New Jersey yesterday with Hillary Clinton.  Bon Jovi introduced her as Mrs. C, but hoped to soon call her Madam President.  They've been friends for over 20 years.

    Well if that does not make Jerilyn smile (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 09:55:19 AM EST
    I don't know what will!!!

    Parent
    I saw that. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:01:44 AM EST
    Really nice.

    Parent
    Tell me again that our vetting process (none / 0) (#5)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:00:39 AM EST
    is just so good that we need to rush in more Muslim refugees...

    The Daily Beast

    You're (none / 0) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:08:50 AM EST
    continual proof that the Muslim terrorism should be rewarded.

    Parent
    When I watch (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 09:31:55 AM EST
    you and Jondee denying realty in the name of protecting Democrats I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

    Parent
    Speaking of denying reality.. (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 09:39:38 AM EST
    Are you still claiming Obama secretly wants American to be attacked?

    Also, do you think the Somalia warlord was here long enough to have the time to load up on weapons at a gun show?

    Parent

    Jim is our consistant (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by fishcamp on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 10:45:41 AM EST
    thorn in the side, but he's extremely pred8ctable, and I like him for that.  He's been correct several times, but not politically or MMGW, (sorry Jim, had to say it).  So I think it's ok to whack a mole him, but since he rarely gets mean, we probably shouldn't either.  After all he got his Naval Avaition friends to stop scaring my fish by flying low and fast, or maybe it was me throwing a handful of bait up towards his jet intake.

    Parent
    The strength of the talk radio right (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 11:41:51 AM EST
    is also their weakness: they all decide on a talking point such as, "America is a Christian nation" "Climate Change is a hoax" "Obama is a communist" (repeat repeat repeat) -- the way Amazonian bullet ants will all decide to go locate food or protect the nest -- this assures them being very well organized and that they always "stay on message"..

    On the other hand, dispensing with independent critical thinking will only take you so far and doesn't do much for your longterm credibility..

    And so finally, as the final denoument of the dumb-down, you wind up with someone like Donald Trump as your preferred candidate for President of the United States.

    Parent

    Plebiscitum ad absurdum (none / 0) (#35)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 12:10:09 PM EST
    Bernie's motto? (none / 0) (#69)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:30:36 PM EST
    Well our hostess (none / 0) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 09:14:27 PM EST
    says no MMGW discussion so I'll let that pass.

    As for the fish scaring cessation... There is nothing too good for my friends....

    Of course it could have been a Russian sticking a thumb in Obama's eye by punking you..

    In which case I advise caution with the fish chumming....Putin shoots back.

    Parent

    Do you still beat your wife? (none / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 09:09:07 PM EST
    That's the question.

    What is a fact is that you make things up.

    Some people would call them lies.

    Parent

    Speaking of lies (none / 0) (#118)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 11:18:29 PM EST
    We're all still waiting to hear that interview you keep talking about with the Benghazi fighter pilot who was told to stand down..

    Or does repeating a stupid, easily disproved lie you heard on wingnut radio now not count as a lie?

    Parent

    Ask and you shall receive (none / 0) (#183)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:07:31 PM EST
    The deputy of slain U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens has told congressional investigators that a team of Special Forces prepared to fly from Tripoli to Benghazi during the Sept. 11, 2012 attacks was forbidden from doing so by U.S. Special Operations Command Africa.

    The account from Gregory Hicks is in stark contrast to assertions from the Obama administration, which insisted that nobody was ever told to stand down and that all available resources were utilized. Hicks gave private testimony to congressional investigators last month in advance of his upcoming appearance at a congressional hearing Wednesday

    CBS News

    Instead of calling people liars you should try out that Google thing.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Jim (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:11:01 PM EST
    that story is 3 years old and was completely discredited during the Benghazi hearings. You see even you have to go back three years and find long ago discredited information to make your false narrative be true. You can make your own reality but don't expect the rest of us to participate in your fantasy.

    Parent
    Why (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 01:22:33 PM EST
    do you keep rewarding the terrorists Jim? Terrorism is at its base to cause fear or terror and you're not doing anything more than proving the terrorists right. Yes, anybody who doesn't run and crouch in a corner like you him I guess should be ridiculed. I prefer to be brave. You can laugh at my bravery all you want I refuse to allow the terrorists to control my life.

    Parent
    So reporting on (none / 0) (#108)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 09:16:05 PM EST
    war criminals in our midst is bad??

    Ga, do you have an annual physical?

    Parent

    Now you're (none / 0) (#121)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 06:30:45 AM EST
    moving the goal posts. You report on that kind of thing attempting to spread fear. Whatever. You want America to be the land of the bed wetters who are afraid of every shadow. I want America to be the land of the brave.

    Instead of saying yay the guy got caught. You're acting like they're everywhere and they are coming to your house tomorrow. You know, irrational fear has caused a lot of really bad things to happen in history.

    Parent

    This isn't comforting (none / 0) (#123)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 07:15:34 AM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/zqkmdxw

    hose smuggled included Palestinians, Pakistanis and the Afghan man who Homeland Security officials said had family ties to the Taliban and was "involved in a plot to conduct an attack in the U.S. and/or Canada." He is in custody, but The Times is withholding his name at the request of law enforcement to protect investigations

    The group, guided by two Mexicans employed by the smuggling network, crawled under the border fence in Arizona late last year and made it about 15 miles north before being detected by border surveillance, according to the documents, which were obtained by Rep. Duncan Hunter, California Republican.

    The group of six men nabbed inside the U.S. -- the Afghan and five men identified as Pakistanis -- all made asylum claims when they were eventually caught by the Border Patrol. Mr. Hunter said his understanding is that the five men from Pakistan were released based on those claims and have disappeared.


    Parent
    You're making things up (none / 0) (#187)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:17:06 PM EST
    Acknowledging a problem is not spreading fear. In fact it is part of how to solve a problem.

    So all of your excuse making and counter stuff about "bed wetters" just shows up as silly.

    And I never said "they're everywhere." My point was that our vetting process is very poor and with thousands more coming in we can expect terrorists in our midst.

    Facts be facts.

    Parent

    I have to wonder (none / 0) (#140)
    by CST on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:18:40 AM EST
    if you actually care about war criminals in our midst, or just Muslims.

    Ok, I don't really have to wonder, I suspect I already know the answer.

    Parent

    Mostly (none / 0) (#142)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:27:55 AM EST
    Just the porous nature of our Southern Border,

    Made more perilious by our being at war

    Parent

    in fact (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by CST on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:42:50 AM EST
    "Ali came to the United States via Canada"

    Which has long been our most porous border, yet I don't see any calls to build a wall between us and Canada.

    Parent

    Wait (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:51:55 AM EST
    that has been true (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by CST on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:56:25 AM EST
    since long before Sept 11th, although there was some chatter at that time about the terrorism threat and they did increase enforcement a bit.  I remember as a kid driving over the border in some places and not talking to anyone.  It's gotten a more strict, but it's still the longest "open border" in the world.

    And there is remarkably little talk about it, if it gets mentioned at all.

    Tells you all you really need to know about the border concern-trolls.

    Parent

    I always got stopped (none / 0) (#155)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:04:09 AM EST
    Went to school in PLattsburgh NY, and traveled to Montreal often.

    Going to Canada, no problem, were stopped and asked for identification every time coming back to the US.

    Well, one time I did get through without answering questions, as a passenger in a friends car on the way back from A Frank Zappa concert, my friend said the border agents they tried their darndest, but I could not be awakened.

    Parent

    on major roads (none / 0) (#158)
    by CST on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:08:35 AM EST
    yes, there have always been checkpoints.  But no wall.

    There were certainly back roads in New England where you could just drive right over the border though.

    Parent

    I was asking Jim (none / 0) (#144)
    by CST on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:38:43 AM EST
    As he was the one who brought up the Somali man.  

    Who I seriously doubt came over the southern border.

    Parent

    You really don't deserve an ansswer (none / 0) (#185)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:09:42 PM EST
    to your snarky question.

    Parent
    because you don't actually care (none / 0) (#193)
    by CST on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:37:34 PM EST
    About war criminals you only care about Muslims.

    Just like you don't care about the Christians trying to implement religious law.

    Or the white Americans who commit mass shootings.

    Or the porous Canadian border.

    I just take solace in the future where opinions like yours don't matter anymore, and the fact that my family is contributing to your demographic "problem".

    Parent

    also (none / 0) (#145)
    by CST on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:40:59 AM EST
    worth mentioning that the people in your article went under the border fence, not over it.  I fail to see how building a "yuge wall" is going to fix that.

    Parent
    Border Security (none / 0) (#147)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:47:18 AM EST
    Needs vast improvement. Whether a Yuge wall, or other methods, it can be done.

    Some unlikely others feel the same

    http://tinyurl.com/hskr4x3

    Parent

    What I like about the American far-right (none / 0) (#8)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:55:02 AM EST
    is that they're very even-handed in their approach toward recent immigrants: they want to vet them very thoroughly and then, afterwards, make sure they can procure all the guns and ammo they need as easily as possible.

    Parent
    It would be interesting to know (none / 0) (#33)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 12:04:49 PM EST
    whether the FBI interprets that post, Ga, as evidence of terrorist sympathy and adds you to a list.

    Parent
    Who would bring it to their attention? (none / 0) (#188)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:18:15 PM EST
    lol

    Parent
    A buck thirty-seven of musical joy (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dadler on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 08:56:34 AM EST
    Thank you, Dadler. (none / 0) (#70)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:31:31 PM EST
    So aparrently (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:18:38 PM EST
    Sanders will release his tax returns "before the convention".

    Just not before the primary is over I guess.

    Doubt he'll be releasing them (5.00 / 4) (#68)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:21:51 PM EST
    after he suspends his campaign

    Parent
    Tweety (5.00 / 4) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:49:29 PM EST
    got Weaver and roasted him over the coals over this. Weaver says Trump won't release his taxes because he's hiding something. Tweety says well, what is Bernie hiding?

    Frankly I don't think Bernie is ever going to release his taxes. He keeps moving the goal posts on that just like he keeps moving the date he's going to "win" the primary. Apparently California isn't enough and now he's moving it to after DC votes.

    Parent

    Tweety- (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 06:55:39 PM EST
    "Did Paul Ryan 'win the news cycle' by coming out FOR Trump?"

    Jezuss

    Parent

    Win the news cycle? (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 07:52:30 PM EST
    More like lost the day.

    Parent
    This addition (none / 0) (#128)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 08:07:08 AM EST
    To the news cycle is quite scary

    What a unfortunate and ugly   election we have to look forward to,

    Riots in San Jose

    http://tinyurl.com/gsgsewt

    Police Officer Assaulted In Riots At Trump Rally In San Jose

    Parent

    I'll see your Tweety, and ... (none / 0) (#117)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 02, 2016 at 10:57:59 PM EST
    ... raise you Camille Paglia (Camille's optional theme music HERE):

    "[Trump] goes straight as an arrow to the forbidden and repressed--as when he recently fearlessly raised the long hushed up case of the 1993 suicide of Vince Foster, the deputy White House counsel whom the Clintons had brought to Washington from Little Rock. Unfortunately, Trump mixed it up with baseless murder-conspiracy rumors, because there are already enough unanswered questions about the incident (such as possible illegal interference by Hillary's staff in the official investigation and even the ambiguous issue of exactly where Foster died)."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Camille and Saloon (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 07:05:17 AM EST
    Should both wear a card board sign that says

    WILL TRADE CLICKS FOR LAST REMAINING SHREADS OF CREDIBILITY

    Parent

    Camille (5.00 / 3) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 07:18:36 AM EST
    has been off her rocker for quite a while. One of the great thing of this election season is that it has made nuts easily identifiable.

    Parent
    Did you read those disparaging comments ... (none / 0) (#182)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:04:03 PM EST
    ... she made about Lady Gaga, "Mad Men" and "Blue Velvet"? It's like she's got this compelling need to prove her moral and intellectual superiority in everything, from her political acumen to her taste in music, movies and television. There's nothing and no one she won't trash to the point where that thing or person should rightly slink off to the nearest corner and wither away. Simultaneously hilarious and pathetic.

    Parent
    This is what (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:08:06 PM EST
    comes of being an outrage junkie. You have to continually top the next outrage with the last outrage until you've just made yourself look completely unbalanced.

    Parent
    I don't really (none / 0) (#130)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 08:22:46 AM EST
    See this as being a plus for whomever the Democrats nominate.

    Mexican flags waving, and assaults upon Trump supporters and police are not a good look,

    At least to me

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 08:28:14 AM EST
    I'm shocked.  SHOCKED and appalled that people would dare to wave a Mexican flag at the rally of a guy who says stuff like this-

    Trump said the following upon hearing the news:

    "They're moving it to Mexico City -- which, by the way, I hope they have kidnapping insurance. But they're moving it to Mexico City. And I'm saying, you know, what's going on here? It's so sad when you look what's going on with our country."

    The violence was instantly rejected by Podesta and others on social media.  I'm sure Hillary will speak about it when the time is right.  
    I don't ever remember you worrying that Trumps chances would be hurt when black people were being punched in the face at his rallys.

    Did I miss that?

    Parent

    Context (none / 0) (#135)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 08:36:15 AM EST
    Is quite different.

    People were assaulted at Trump rallies, trying to shut them down.
    Not justified,but provoked, and probably elicited the reaction they were after.

    In San Jose, out and out riots, police assaulted, all under the auspices of the Mexican flag.

    No, pretty poor optics

    Parent

    POLITICO (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 08:33:27 AM EST
    POLITICO, also (none / 0) (#136)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 08:41:20 AM EST
    Why Some of the Smartest Progressives I Know Will Vote for Trump over Hillary

    "I don't want to vote for Trump. I want to vote for Bernie. But I have reached the point where I feel like voting for Trump against Clinton would be doing my patriotic duty. ... If the only way to escape a trap is to gnaw off my leg, I'd like to think I'd have the guts to do it."



    Parent
    Or as a comment I read somewhere (5.00 / 3) (#152)
    by vml68 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:56:58 AM EST
    stated this is kinda like saying, " I don't like olives on my pizza, my pizza came with olives, so I decided to eat p00p".

    Parent
    I could swear I'm the one who has been (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:29:23 AM EST
    Telling people this for months.  Usually to howls of outrage at the idea Sanders supporters would vote for Trump.

    However, I don't think I have used the word "smartest".  I have probably said some of the farthest left I know.  

    As the days go by I care less and less about this.  IMO they are not smart and they will not in the end be enough to worry about.  Or even care about.  Electorally Trump is a dead man walking.

    Parent

    Maybe. But he's a preacherman, (none / 0) (#149)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:47:58 AM EST
    preaching a developer's prosperity gospel.  

    An old tune, comforting and familiar to the rubes.  

    Parent

    Sounds (none / 0) (#161)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:15:44 AM EST
    more like nihilism    
    a doctrine or belief that conditions in the social organization are so bad as to make destruction desirable for its own sake independent of any constructive program or possibility
    than progressivism to me.

    Parent
    Nihilism (none / 0) (#164)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:31:22 AM EST
    is what I would say. Let's just blow everything up and hope for the best seems to be the mindset.

    Parent
    Even the Mornng Joe crew (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:25:05 AM EST
    Are, to a person including Mica,  gushing about Hillarys speech yesterday.  Scarborough took the day off.  
    As stupid as it sounds I think this is significant.  These people have never had anything good to say about Hillary.  If they do now it means lots of others will.

    How many Republicans have rushed (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:33:33 AM EST
    to Donald's defense on this Clinton speech?

    Parent
    The thing is (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:42:07 AM EST
    The most devestatimg thing about what she said is there is absolutely no denying a single thing she said.   Not one word.

    Parent
    Most (none / 0) (#169)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:41:42 AM EST
    of what I have heard is but, but, but........Benghazi!!!!!

    Parent
    John Noonan (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:39:54 PM EST
    GOP advisor on why no blowback...

    Well, she's right.


    Parent
    Since we're discussing our fav politicians (none / 0) (#171)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 10:42:47 AM EST
    Some TED Talks on Lying:

    We Start Early - Kang Lee

    How to Spot a Liar - Pamela Meyer

    The Future of Lying - Jeff Hancock

    Our Buggy Moral Code - Dan Ariely

    Who is Donald Trump's Base? (none / 0) (#175)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 11:20:50 AM EST
    Wow (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 11:53:00 AM EST
    Andrea Mitchell is grilling turtle boy McConnell about what he thinks about trashing a highly respected federal judge because of his ethnicity.  Who thought he was going to talk about his book.

    Who knew a turtle could tap dance that fast.  "He sure is a different kind of candidate-we should be careful about offending Hispanics because they vote-how about that jobs number"

    If this is a dream it's a good dream.

    And Hillary is Obama redux (none / 0) (#192)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:37:05 PM EST
    The U.S. economy only added 38,000 jobs in May, according to the Labor Department. It was the worst monthly job gain since 2010.

    It's a pretty gloomy report, hard to find a silver lining in this one," says Curt Long, chief economist at the National Association of Federal Credit Unions.

    Why did unemployment rate drop: Not for good reasons. More Americans stopped looking for work and fell out of the workforce. That means they aren't counted in the labor force and that brings down the jobless rate. In recent months, more Americans had been coming back into the job market. Now the trend appears to be hitting a plateau

    Link

    Which in a down month for Obama (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 12:57:47 PM EST
    is still nearly double the George W Bush average.

    Parent
    That's comparing the best figure availble for Bush (none / 0) (#200)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 01:01:39 PM EST
    Other statisticians give Bush a negative avg per month for his 8 years in office.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#203)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 01:21:07 PM EST
    The scariest numbers about that job report,

    Is that the unemployment rate   DROPPED,
    with 38k jobs for the month

    Which means another 450k dropped out of the work force....again

    And another significant number , Part time employment jumped up another 468k

    Trevor (none / 0) (#204)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 01:27:13 PM EST
    staying in a Holiday Inn Express last night does not help your wingnut argument.

    Lol (none / 0) (#205)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 01:34:53 PM EST
    450k people leaving the work force...again

    Unemployment rate dropping , on 38k jobs added number

    And part time employment increasing by 468k

    Those are just facts, Inconvenient perhaps

    Go ahead , Spin away how good they really are

    The Chicago Sun Times: (none / 0) (#206)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 01:54:23 PM EST
    HBOs running a Six Feet Under (none / 0) (#207)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 02:56:06 PM EST
    Marathon.   I had forgotten how great it was.

    Gene Lyons is brilliant (none / 0) (#208)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 03:11:21 PM EST
    And that Sun Times piece is great.    

    If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it."
    ― Marcus Tullius Cicero

    Lots of bad behavior in my home town during Trump (none / 0) (#209)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 03:12:40 PM EST
    Rally

    Once again police are afraid to engage criminal activity during protests/riots.  

    And the whole "cow states" quote (none / 0) (#210)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 03:15:27 PM EST
    Is worth the band width

    He swept the white-bread college campuses and the cow states. End of story. The urban proletariat? Not so much. Who can be surprised? Campus radicals have been trashing "establishment" Democrats and fantasizing about a working-class insurrection all Bernie's life.

    The revolution remains imaginary.



    The odd mind of Trump spews forth again today (none / 0) (#211)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 05:25:51 PM EST
    in Redding, CA.

    "Look at my African-American over here"


    Banshee...pretty high body count (none / 0) (#212)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:23:13 PM EST
    Only at episode 2. May not stick with this one,

    Banshee (none / 0) (#213)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 at 09:48:52 PM EST
    Does love it's balletic violence.  

    Banshee...great plot though (none / 0) (#215)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 04, 2016 at 01:10:21 PM EST
    I did wake up wanting to see what happens. Intrigued as to how they get more than a few episodes out of the premise!

    Great plot (none / 0) (#216)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 04, 2016 at 02:03:03 PM EST
    Great writing, actors, characters.  Very strong female characters.

    this thread is closed (none / 0) (#217)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 06, 2016 at 05:28:58 PM EST
    Please remember to keep your number of comments per thread to a reasonable number so that everyone has a chance to weigh in. Threads bog down when one or two people clog them, commenting 30 or more times.