home

Friday Open Thread

Thread

< Belated Post Debate Thread | Saturday Open Thread >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Been too busy (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 08:14:14 PM EST
    on twitter to keep up with what has been going on here BTD :).

    Meet the new Harry and Louise (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 08:27:30 PM EST
    A friend has pointed me to an excellent article on the health care debate; it is long, but well-written and eye-opening.

    In it, the author revisits the debates on the plans of 2008, examines the punditry, analysis and politics at the time, and compares it to what is being proposed and said today.

    There is way too much to responsibly excerpt here, but I promise you, it is worth your time.

    Those of us who remember what radio was... (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by desertswine on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 08:43:29 PM EST
    and who Bob and Ray were, will take note of the passing of comedy legend Bob Elliot. This NPR photo is mis-labeled.  That's Bob on the right, and partner Ray Goulding on the left. Ray passed away some years ago.  

    I don't know much about Bob (none / 0) (#5)
    by McBain on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 08:52:42 PM EST
    but I loved when his son Chris would appear on the Letterman show as The Man Under The Seats, The Fugitive Guy, and The Conspiracy Guy.

    Kinda wish I grew up without TV and could have experienced the radio days.  

    Parent

    You know what we need? (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 09:18:25 PM EST
    We need some tasty '70s-era tunes to lighten the mood and take our minds off of politics, if only for a little while and just in time for Super Bowl weekend:

    Have a nice evening, everyone. Peace.

    Wow (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 09:38:19 PM EST
    Black Oak

    That's a blast from the past.  You know when I was in college in Jonesboro AR they were sort of the house band.  They were around all the time.   Some of that time they were The Nobody Else.  They got famous right at this time.  College for me, I mean.   Their first, Black Oak came out in 70 or 71.  Those were my college days.  After that they got all famous and stuff. I never knew the band members really but I knew Jims sister Lynn pretty well.  She dated a guy who was I my circle.

    Many psychedelic nights.  Nice lady as I remember.  

    Thanks for the blast.

    Parent

    I take it that Lynn's bother Jim was ... (none / 0) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:37:49 AM EST
    ... the Jim of "Jim Dandy." One of my cousins turned me onto Black Oak when I was in 9th grade, going through a Southern rock phase and was into all things Lynyrd Skynyrd. I came to like Black Oak better. Awesome band.

    Parent
    Yes Jim Dandy (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:40:39 AM EST
    There was a lot f people locally who thought they were a better band before Jim Dandy.  He definitely brought some star quality but they really were a great bunch of musicians.

    They used to play/practice about ever week in an old abandoned roller rink in Jonesboro for a while.  It became a sort of psychedelic gathering spot for college kids.

    They were very good.   And more musical when Jim didn't show.  Which was pretty often.

    Parent

    Captain, looking (none / 0) (#38)
    by KeysDan on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:49:46 AM EST
    forward to your review of "Hail Caesar."  

    Parent
    Ha (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:00:43 AM EST
    Awsum go see it.

    End of review.

    But seriously.  Classic Coen.  I think I like Clooney a lot more when he is being funny than when he is being serious.   But everyone was excellent.  Scarlett, Channing, Tilda, Francis.  Every one top of their game.   The Coens comedies, while I like them a lot have never been my favorites because they do stuff like No Country For Old Men so very very well.   But I liked this a lot.   You get your money's worth.

    Parent

    I forgot the new guy (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:06:58 AM EST
    he was great


    Why you will soon be obsessed with 'Hail, Caesar!' star Alden Ehrenreich


    Parent
    Loved him! And the whole movie (none / 0) (#194)
    by ruffian on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:45:57 PM EST
    The scene with him and Ralph Fiennes had the tears streaming down my face, I was laughing so hard. I can't even explain why.

    Parent
    Going to see Hail, Caesar (none / 0) (#94)
    by caseyOR on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:43:49 AM EST
    this afternoon. I need a good laugh.

    Parent
    Me too! It looks perfect for what (none / 0) (#124)
    by ruffian on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 01:14:06 PM EST
    I need this weekend.

    Parent
    I'm going... (none / 0) (#133)
    by desertswine on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:15:50 PM EST
    this evening.  I never miss a Coen Bros movie.  I think I've seen all of them.

    Parent
    I've watched Miller's Crossing (none / 0) (#134)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:26:27 PM EST
    at least ten times.

    It's kind of like a slightly surreal  R-rated Dick Tracy comic strip.

    That rapid-fire, hard boiled, wise cracking back-and-forth between Tom and Verna kills me..

    And JE Freeman's Eddie Dane is one of the all-time great screen villians. And he has all the best lines.."I got you smart guy, I know what you are.. Mr inside-outski, like some goddamn Bolshevik pickin up his orders from yeg-central.."

    Parent

    Millers Crossing question (none / 0) (#172)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 06:33:36 PM EST
    Had a long conversation once with a friend about Eddie Dane and the possibility he was gay and the Steve Buscemi character was not just "his boy" but his boyfriend.

    Thoughts?

    Parent

    Totally gay.. (none / 0) (#190)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:35:31 PM EST
    I should know after seeing the movie that many times.

    I still remember my daughter saying "hey, wait a minute, are they saying Eddie Dane is gay?"

    Parent

    Thank you (none / 0) (#191)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:38:10 PM EST
    That was my position.  My friend, also gay, insisted I was imagining things.  He has to be one of my favorite gay characters ever.  Thank you Coens.

    Parent
    I also love that movie (none / 0) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:39:39 PM EST
    It's one of my favorite CB movies

    Parent
    Surfing reviews (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:20:37 AM EST
    I didn't read any before I saw it.  Interesting, at Rotten Tomatoes it has a 79% reviewer score and a 51% audience score.

    I suspect that might be because the "audience" is pretty young and it really helps to love this movie if you grew up with 50s movies.

    Parent

    "Hail, Caesar," (none / 0) (#70)
    by KeysDan on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:16:01 AM EST
    gets high marks from most reviewers, e.g., New Yorker, NYT.  However, I did wonder how it would play with the teenager and younger set that occupy most seats at the multiplex. The golden age of film making, even with Turner Classics at the ready, does not seem to hold much interest, especially, most being black and white.

    A pleasant surprise for me was a discussion at a party with the host's son and girlfriend--both film students.  Lot's of fun dissecting movies such as Gaslight (Not only Ingrid Bergman, but Angela Lansbury in her role as maid) and Mildred Pierce (the 1945, post-war awakening of a single woman not only in the workforce, but also, a businesswoman).  

    As for that new guy in Caesar, if my German still works,  he apparently has lived up to his surname and provides 'an honorable reign.'  If Hollywood doesn't work out, he has good prospects in other fields, such as Sensodyne commercials.

    Parent

    Now, when they're talking Jane Greer (none / 0) (#187)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:27:20 PM EST
    and some of her noir roles, that's when the conversation gets interesting.

    Parent
    Sounds like Inside Llewyn Davis. (none / 0) (#135)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:29:13 PM EST
    which was another penultimate shutout-at-the-Oscars travesty

    Parent
    It's way funnier (none / 0) (#173)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 06:38:01 PM EST
    this (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by kangeroo on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:19:06 AM EST
    article about all of the supposedly terrible things hillary has done made me laugh out loud. seeing it all in one place just reminded me how ridiculous it all is and how hard her detractors have tried over the years to defeat her. it is amazing how mucn she has endured.

    39 (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Kmkmiller on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:50:44 AM EST
    unforgivable.

    Parent
    Didn't Johnny Cash write some song about ... (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 03:52:00 AM EST
    ... shhooting a man in Reno, just so Hillary Clinton could watch him die?

    Parent
    Love Johnny Cash (none / 0) (#126)
    by MKS on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 01:30:53 PM EST
    but awhile ago I had his albums on DVD and it would wear me out listening to him as I was commuting to work.

    Parent
    "Don't Take your Cats to Town, Son; (none / 0) (#189)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:34:08 PM EST
    Excellent (none / 0) (#25)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 06:40:43 AM EST
    They were totally low balling (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:03:40 AM EST
    CLINTON BODY COUNT

    There was dozens of sites dedicated to this.  All the people they killed.

    Parent

    She is even more amazing, then (none / 0) (#68)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:11:26 AM EST
    She could do all this and still have time to everything else (and all stealthily).

    Just think, as president, she could use these magic powers to swoop in, take out dictators we don't like, and do things like annex Russia.  (Maybe they could then have the first, but aptly named,  caucuses there).

    Parent

    Mrs. Clinton registers (none / 0) (#71)
    by KeysDan on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:23:54 AM EST
    as the most admired women in America, and often, shows up as such as most admired women around the world.  (even with the flaws of such surveys, she shows up well in comparison with other well-knowns).

    Good marks, too, in many quarters, as Secretary of State.  It changes fast, when a candidate.

    Parent

    This is the link (none / 0) (#87)
    by KeysDan on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:22:14 AM EST
    Missed the chance (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by lilburro on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 04:37:14 AM EST
    to comment on the campaign finance issue in the other thread before it hit its comment limit; all I can say is I'm glad TL is here to have this discussion, because all the responses were a heck of a lot more interesting and engaged than anything I've seen on other forums (if someone wants to prove me wrong that would make me happy, too).

    As far as I can tell, Sanders and Clinton have the same plan for Citizens United - nominate judges that will overturn it. There are more actions that could be taken to up that pressure. I would love to hear either candidate make an issue out of one of these. Because right now I believe I am being presented with a choice that is same policy, different flavors. Sanders is knocking it out of the park presenting the problem, but the solution is no different than Clinton's, which brings the debate down to "who do you trust" - criteria that gets real prejudiced, real fast. Little victories along the way are necessary if we want to achieve anything greater. I think Obama was better able to make that point than either candidate now. We are in a Goldilocks situation right now - one too big, one too small.

    Which is not to say I'm calling for Joe Biden. God, no.

    Last night, my husband had the (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Anne on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:29:45 AM EST
    news on, and what he and I have noticed is that the majority of the ads are for prescription drugs, incontinence aids and the like.  Guess the demographic is old people, lol.  Old people who still want to have sex, apparently, but can't, you know, get it up (maybe the problem is, they're peeing their pants all the time, and their teeth won't stay in - or they are prone to explosive diarrhea - god, it's awful to get old!).

    As usual, there was an ad on for some drug, and the litany of side effects and reactions was being reeled off, each one worse than the next, and always leaving us both wondering if maybe it would be better to have whatever the drug was supposed to be taken to help.

    Anyway, in the middle of it, my husband says, "Hey, I want seizures and migraines..." and I said, "you could just watch the next Republican debate for that," and the two us us just cracked up.

    Ba-da-bump.

    There is (none / 0) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:35:15 AM EST
    a movement afoot to pan prescription advertising.

    A pharmacist explained to me why this advertising is such a problem. People see this ad on TV and then they go to their doctor demanding to get it. Doctor writes a prescription and voila the pharmaceutical company won that round. She also says that sometimes when it gets to the pharmacy to get filled the customer finds out the price and walks therefore wasting everybody's time. According to her there is nothing good that comes out of drug advertising.

    Parent

    Years ago, in a conversation with (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Anne on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:45:19 AM EST
    my orthopedic surgeon, he told me that they hated all the advertising, precisely because of the "ask your doctor for..." instruction in all the ads.  He said the ads get in the way of the practice of medicine, because it contributes to the idea that pills cure everything, and make the patients question why their doctor isn't prescribing for them.  He said it became a conversation of, "why are you telling me I need (surgery/physical therapy/a sling/a boot} when the TV is telling me all I need is a pill?

    He knew what is so obvious: they advertise to use patients to put pressure on doctors to prescribe.

    Parent

    My favorites (none / 0) (#54)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:40:21 AM EST
    Are the drugs for COPD - for which some of the side effects are a dry cough, sneezing, runny nose, or sore throat.  Um, really?

    Parent
    I have a friend (none / 0) (#55)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:42:35 AM EST
    that has COPD and it's a pretty serious diagnosis. From those commercials you would think the diagnosis is nothing worse than catching a cold.

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:47:48 AM EST
    "Restless leg syndrome"

    Maher - if your legs are restless go for a walk.

    Parent

    I just want to know how you get TB (none / 0) (#62)
    by Anne on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:55:15 AM EST
    or leukemia from medication.  Seems to me if those are a possibility, whatever it is you have would have to be awfully bad to risk those results.

    There's another one that always floors me, the one where they say that one of the side effects of an MS drug is PML,"a rare brain infection that is usually fatal."  And it's said in a rather light tone.  Hey, that sounds like something to really worry about!

    Parent

    Seriously (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:11:35 AM EST
    a friend of mine's mother was on one of those medications and somehow the side effects were missed. She was diagnosed with Leukemia and was getting ready to die and doing all the end of life things until one of the doctors she went to all of a sudden noticed that she was on this particular medicine that was causing it. From time to time I would ask her son who she was doing and it was not great, you know, she has Leukemia etc. and then one time I said how's your mom and he said fine. I said but you told me she had Leukemia and he said yes, her medicine was causing it and once they stopped it she no longer had Leukemia. I was stunned to say the least.

    Parent
    Marijuana... (none / 0) (#65)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:02:48 AM EST
    can be very effective in alleviating MS symptoms, but alas my friend with MS is a NYFD firefighter so he can't seek relief and feed his family at the same time.  Possible brain infection for him I guess.

    But Hillary gonna research it so maybe before he retires or gets a fatal brain infection.

    Parent

    Thats part of the problem (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:46:07 AM EST
    Another is the give kickbacks to doctors.  I can't prove this but I just know it.  When I lived in LA I had a doctor that I liked ok.   He wasn't Marcus Welby but he was ok.
    Any way.  Every time I saw him, EVERYTIME,  he would try to give me a prescription for Viagra.  I would say no thank you, this is not one of my problems.   Next visit same thing.   One day I said  "Damn, are you getting kickbacks or what" he said, "hey, I got kids to feed"

    Parent
    Oh (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:53:39 AM EST
    His kids were two Boxers.  He was single and gay.

    Parent
    An old friend of mine... (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:58:27 AM EST
    was a pharmaceutical sales rep. Very pretty woman, like many pharmaceutical sales reps.

    Oh there's kickbacks Howdy...lots and lots of kickbacks. Prescribe some of this sh;t and we'd be happy to have you as an honored guest at our next conference in St. Lucia.

    Parent

    Yes, I have a good friend now that is a rep (none / 0) (#93)
    by ruffian on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:43:37 AM EST
    I have heard the same type of story.

    Parent
    I agree - those ads have me sworn off taking (none / 0) (#92)
    by ruffian on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:41:11 AM EST
    any prescription drugs.

    I don't get people that would 'ask your doctor about....' any of these dugs. I know they do though.

    Parent

    Third is the new First, (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by KeysDan on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:58:35 AM EST
    Wacko is the new Moderate, Marco is Establishment:  This way to enter the looking glass:

    Rubio has a compelling story which is included in almost every speech, which rarely if ever changes. He is the son of Cuban immigrants who fled Castro (oops, that really was Batista), His parents were poor, a bartender and a maid, and he sympathizes with their hard work.  In his memoir, he says he joined his father in a union strike and became a "committed union activist."  That commitment ended as a senator, who now opposes raising the minimum wage and wants to eliminate rules that empower unions.  But, hey anyone can change his mind, unless Mrs. Clinton.

    Rubio finally made it through college and law school, saddled with debt and a work ethic that did not help to pull himself up by the boot straps. He entered politics and found a sugar daddy South Florida car dealer who helped out by funding little show jobs for him and his wife.  And, almost everyone wanted to know more about this Rubio guy, and his memoir went like hot cakes, with a $800,000 advance. Rubio burned through his money and soon became broke, once again.  He and his friend, David Rivera, ran into trouble paying off their mortgage on their house in Tallahassee. But, as Rubio says, he did not inherit my money. The Florida Republican Party credit card did come in handy, however.

    Rubio, the moderate, also has a lot of innovative and imaginative ideas reflecting his youth and the younger generation.  He is for reducing regulations and cutting taxes on rich.  He is against gay marriage and is anti-choice even in cases of rape and incest. He is against immigration reform, and is opposed to amnesty. On foreign affairs, his senate specialty, he is a neocon. Bombing is always on his mind, if not the table.  And, he has an up to date take on Cuba--1958 style. He was opposed to the Iran nuclear deal.  Now, these may not seem all that new, but, keep in mind that they are said youthfully.

    Rubio may not be entirely coddled by his fellow Republicans at the debate tonight.  A battle for the soul of the Republican Party, as Chuck Todd might claim.  Christie is already on the job: "let's get the boy in the bubble out of the bubble"  And, with respect to his scripted, on message, on message, on message speech he is being dubbed:  "a computer algorithm designed to cover talking points."

    But, Rubio can't be dismissed.  While not all that difficult, he is more likable than Cruz. More religious, or at least, more religions than Trump (attends an Evangelical service on Saturdays, Catholic mass on Sundays, and had an upbringing as a Mormon.}  Rubio says he is not the savior of the Establishment.  NO, NO. he says that would be Jesus.

    Actually (none / 0) (#79)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:05:26 AM EST
    Rubio was a Tea PArty favorite, and came in with that wave.
    He consistently opposed the "Establishment" , they told him not run a primary against Charlie Christ, but did anyway, then beat Christ when he switched parties.
    "The Establishment" also told Rubio not to run for President, wait your turn (Hmmm, that sounds familiar) , your mentor Jeb Bush is running, so you must wait this one out.
    Quite frankly, I think the Obama win in 2008 convinced him to run.
    He lost a lot of Tea Party love with the Gang of Eight, but they will accept it when the Prodigal SOn returns to the fold.

    Parent
    He only first became a Democrat in 2014, prior to running again for governor. Rather, he quit the Republican Party during the 2010 U.S. Senate race to run as an independent to avoid the Tea Party surge in the GOP primary. But there was still a Democrat in that general election race for the Senate, Congressman Kendrick Meek of Miami. Christ and Meek effectively split the non-GOP vote, and Rubio cruised to victory with a clear and substantive plurality of votes, though not an absolute majority.

    Parent
    That (none / 0) (#82)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:10:51 AM EST
    was then. Now he's despised by the tea party for his support of immigration. He wrote the bill and then voted against his own bill. Is that the first time it has ever happened that someone voted against their own bill? LMBO.

    Remember Chris Christie was once a tea party darling too until he wasn't.

    Rubio hates being a senator so he has nothing to lose by running for president. And he also could have figured out he was going to lose his senate seat in Fl anyway so why not run.

    Parent

    Rubio (none / 0) (#80)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:07:28 AM EST
    just makes me laugh. I have to say if someone as lame as Jeb Bush can make people laugh at Rubio I would think he's an easy mark for a lot of other people.

    Parent
    Yea (none / 0) (#83)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:11:04 AM EST
    I know,

    Charlie Christ , popular Governor of Florida laughed at him too when he was told Rubio was going to primary him.

    Parent

    Rubio (none / 0) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:14:08 AM EST
    couldn't even get a majority of voters in a wave year for the GOP in Florida. Him and Jeb combined are not even getting the numbers of Trump in his home state of Florida. I would say that's the worst news for Rubio of all.

    Parent
    You know what (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:36:38 AM EST
    Donald Trump is not Charlie Christ

    Parent
    Great job, as always... (none / 0) (#86)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:20:38 AM EST
    His parents fled the workers nightmare of Batista's Cuba for the socialist worker protections and opportunities in The United States.

    It is a beautiful age old story...too bad he's ashamed of it. Bringing Batista back baby, maybe his grandkids will one day have to flee to the birthplace of Ted Cruz. Or back to Cuba.

    Parent

    Great American story (none / 0) (#89)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:32:52 AM EST
    And it has served him well over the years.

    My grandfather (originally from Spain) used to work for a month or two at a time in Cuba, his company taking advantage of his bi lingual capabilities.

    OMG, He used to rant and rave every time he saw a picture of Castro. He had many acquaintances in Cuba, and what happened to them was not pretty.
    Mention Castro, it was like waving a red flag in front of a bull.
    Actually had some matadors in the family tree also.

    Parent

    Oh, please! (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:43:58 PM EST
    TrevorBolder: "Great American story[.] And it has served [Marco Rubio] well over the years."

    For years while he was serving in the Florida House of Representatives, Rubio peddled the false story that his parents were exiles from Castro's Cuba. In fact, he initially said as much in his posted biography on the U.S. Senate website.

    He was finally called out on his BS in October 2011, when it was first noticed by some enterprising journalists that Rubio's parents had actually emigrated to the United States in May 1956, which of course was over two and a half years before Fidel Castro ever came to power in Havana.

    Rubio's conscious decision to overly embellish his parents' already compelling story, by falsely implying that they had fled Castro's Communist revolution, was both a calculated effort and entirely cynical ploy on his part to unduly burnish his own right-wing credentials in Miami's conservative Cuban-American community.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Eh (none / 0) (#119)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:55:49 PM EST
    Politicians embellish.  NEVER!!!

    Still a great American success story

    And duck some sniper fire on the tarmac.

    Parent

    Sen. Rubio's own story about them, on the other hand, was nothing but pure and unadulterated bullschitt.

    The guy is all meringue and no filling.

    Parent

    Yes, a nice (none / 0) (#139)
    by KeysDan on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:39:50 PM EST
    story about immigrants.  Not as nice a story about the son   I'd rather vote for the father or mother, but for that natural born stuff.  Unless, Cruz can help on that matter.

    Parent
    A rather shocking number of people (none / 0) (#96)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:44:18 AM EST
    In this country still rant and rave about Lincoln and MLK. Just read the comments at some of the right wing blogs..

    And they do it with much less excuse than the Cuban ex-pats have.

    Parent

    Lol (none / 0) (#98)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:49:23 AM EST
    My grandfather ranting about Castro, and the pain and ruin he caused a beautiful island,

    I have no clue as to how that leads to , or why it would lead to,

    A couple of crazies ranting about Lincoln or MLK,

    Although I haven't heard of or met any

    Parent

    Yeah, Cuba was a real paradise on earth ... (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 01:03:43 PM EST
    TrevorBolder: "My grandfather ranting about Castro, and the pain and ruin he caused a beautiful island[.]"

    ... when the kindly and benevolent Fulgencio Batista Zaldivar ruled the roost in Havana, generously assisted by his saintly and wonderful friends in the U.S. sugar industry, the U.S. State Dept. and the Pentagon -- and of course, the Cosa Nostra.

    :-(

    Parent

    Might not have been (none / 0) (#141)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:41:46 PM EST
    The perfect paradise,

    But boy did it go downhill under the thumb of Castro

    Parent

    No, it didn't go downhill under Castro. (none / 0) (#165)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 05:35:45 PM EST
    How conveniently you ignore the fact that Gen. Batista would have lost the 1952 presidential election, had he not staged the U.S.-backed military coup that abolished what little democracy the Cuban people enjoyed, and installed himself as an autocratic dictator. That's what triggered the uprising led by Fidel and Raoul Castro, which eventually toppled him six-plus years later.

    Yes, Cuba certainly has more that its share of very real present-day problems, and the Castro regime has heretofore shown very little tolerance for public dissent. But that said, the Cuban people overall are much better off today than they ever were back in the 1940s and '50s, when they were impoverished and starving under harsh and brutal quasi-colonial conditions, thanks to the oligarchy of U.S.-trained military officers, U.S. corporate sugar barons, and Sicilian and Jewish Mafioso which effectively dominated Gen. Batista's regime.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    No thanks (none / 0) (#174)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 06:43:45 PM EST
    You are too patronizing by far

    I will take the word of someone who actually spent a month yearly on the island.

    Castro kept that island backwards for personal enrichment

    Parent

    More than a couple.. (none / 0) (#107)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:01:22 PM EST
    would that it were just a couple.

    And the fact that the blogs aren't ashamed enough to delete the comments says a lot as well.

    Parent

    Except the story isn't true (none / 0) (#110)
    by Coral Gables on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:03:41 PM EST
    They were gone before Castro but as you say...good fiction.

    Parent
    A year or 2 (none / 0) (#113)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:08:59 PM EST
    before Castro came into power,
    Still a great immigrant story

    Parent
    Yep, it's a great immigrant story, ... (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 01:26:24 PM EST
    ... and one which is sullied only by the fact that they gave birth to and raised a serial bullschitt artist who respects very few ethical boundaries.

    Parent
    But, it was the Castro part (none / 0) (#142)
    by KeysDan on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:46:03 PM EST
    that was all important to Rubio's story in South Florida.

    Parent
    Nah (none / 0) (#143)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:48:02 PM EST
    It still works in a nationwide campaign, without Castro part

    Son of immigrants, proud of this country

    Can do big things

    Parent

    Yes, Rubio's (none / 0) (#149)
    by KeysDan on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 03:10:14 PM EST
    lies don't count. After all, they are just Republican lies which fade into the fabric as a whole.  It is a good story and that is enough, and, certainly, a better one than Carson's redemption story of cousin stabbing/belt buckle and hitting Mom on the head with a hammer.

    Parent
    If we don't start having some real (none / 0) (#103)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:58:09 AM EST
    class interest checks and balances here, we'll get there eventually..

    The workers here may be a little slow on the uptake, but eventually it's going to sink in for them that they're seen by too many as little more than disposable tools, and when the realization really sinks in, it aint gonna be pretty.

    Parent

    Actually (none / 0) (#112)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:08:53 PM EST
    It might be too late.

    The free trade world economy has crippled our former blue collar workers base ,

    Manufacturing is gone, until costs around the world catch up

    There is still good jobs with the trades, but hard to get.
    Internet commerce has enabled so few to gain so much, without needing a large well paid work force.
    Higher education is the way to a good career, but you must also pick the right field.

    Parent

    It is probably too late... (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 01:04:55 PM EST
    for a good paying manufacturing job base to return...and there will never be enough work for the entire working population. I think we need to start talking about guaranteed income as outsourcing and automation continue to increase.

    I mean just wait till there are no more truckdrivers, forklift operators, etc.

    Parent

    They'd better come up with (none / 0) (#129)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 01:40:52 PM EST
    some viable, longterm New Deal-style public works projects or start building even more jails and prisons and then get ready the kind of revolution that will make Bernie, in retrospect, look like the epitome of pragmatisn.

    Parent
    Public works... (none / 0) (#137)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:34:52 PM EST
    would be a very nice stopgap...I know of some water pipes that need replacing in Flint and hundreds of other places.

    It feels like rock bottom when we can't even do safe and clean drinking water anymore. I mean what the f#ck!!!

    Parent

    It may be pandering (none / 0) (#145)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:54:11 PM EST
    But HRC is doing more than talking about it and is trying to help.

    At least, it's more than just calling for the governor to resign.

    Parent

    Good stuff... (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 03:07:15 PM EST
    I look forward to hearing her plan of action.

    And I hope Obama is formulating a plan of action for right now because I don't think Michigan is up to the task...feds gotta get in there and the GOP congress ain't gonna give a f+ck.

    Parent

    Separate and apart from the very real (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Anne on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 03:11:32 PM EST
    threat to the health of the people of Flint, the situation there provides an excellent opportunity to have a conversation about the difference between Republicans, who don't want to regulate or enforce clean water laws, don't want to fund children's health programs, don't want to spend money on infrastructure - and Democrats, who want to do all of those things.

    In recent weeks, I have been seeing more articles about lead levels in the blood of children in other cities in this country - this is a very real problem that, but for Flint, may not have gotten any real attention.

    Just the other day, Democrats had to block an Energy bill that would have provided $600 million for the Flint clean up:

    Sens. Debbie Stabenow and Gary Peters, both Democrats of Michigan, started pushing the issue last week as the Senate began debate on the energy bill. Their provision would provide $600 million in emergency funding to Flint to replace and fix the city's water supply infrastructure and establish a center dedicated to helping people in Flint recover from lead poisoning. Republicans scolded Democrats for using the crisis to play politics, and argued it is a state and local problem.

    [...]

    "The Democratic caucus has come together and brought down this bipartisan bill ... at least for the time being," Cornyn said. "We know the vote that just went down wasn't about the energy bill; this is about trying to embarrass Republicans, and to try to make us look bad and portray us as having no compassion for the poor people in Flint."

    The bulk of the money provided by the Stabenow measure would go toward removing Flint's lead pipes, something Democrats haven't proposed doing anywhere other than Flint. Roughly 10 million homes and buildings across America are served by lead pipes.

    Cornyn added that the money Democrats are trying to send to Flint wouldn't help because the state of Michigan and the city of Flint don't know what to do to fix the problem yet, or how much it will cost. A main hold-up for Republicans is finding an offset that will pay for the money directed to Flint.

    This is what they do, always.

    Parent

    And why should the rest of us pay (1.00 / 3) (#159)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 04:11:01 PM EST
    to fix Flint's problem's?

    It's a local problem. Issue some bonds to pay to fix it and raise local taxes to cover the bonds.

    I mean raising taxes is a Demo thing, isn't it?

    Parent

    Are you serious, Mr Jesus Saves? (none / 0) (#162)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 04:21:15 PM EST
    You really have to ask why the rest of us should try to help poisoned children?

    Parent
    the Demos are just using (none / 0) (#163)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 04:25:42 PM EST
    them as human shields to raise taxes..

    Parent
    Maybe the state which forced the change (none / 0) (#170)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 06:08:39 PM EST
    Onto the residents of Flint for their water supply without them having a say on it should pay.

    But then, conservatives only talk a good game when it comes to responsibility.

    Parent

    Actually (none / 0) (#175)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 06:44:40 PM EST
    It was the local town which decided to change the water supply, not the state.

    Parent
    It was (5.00 / 3) (#180)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 07:17:33 PM EST
    the emergency manager appointed by Snyder. You guys sure like fiefdoms to rule over the plebes until you get caught don't you? So an unelected person appointed by the governor doing the governor's bidding. The voters even voted to override the emergency manager law and yet Snyder and the Republicans in the legislature wrote another law that could not be overridden by the voters. You can spout all the apologia you want but the fact of the matter this is 100% the problem of Republican governance.

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#182)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 07:27:14 PM EST
    Paul Egan, Detroit Free Press Lansing Bureau 12:40 p.m. EST February 4, 2016

    LANSING -- The Flint City Council really did make its own decision to join the Karegnondi Water Authority in 2013, because, according to council members, then-Flint emergency manager Ed Kurtz refused to make the decision himself.

    But the City Council had no intention in March 2013 of then taking drinking water from the Flint River while the city waited for the new KWA pipeline to Lake Huron to be completed. Instead, the council planned to keep receiving Lake Huron water, supplied by the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department, while the pipeline was being constructed.

    Those two facts are apparent from a video of the March 25, 2013, Flint City Council meeting, where the council voted 7-1 to leave the Detroit water system for the KWA, which, once completed, would deliver raw Lake Huron water to the Flint water treatment plant for purification and distribution.

    Parent

    Well, using that logic (none / 0) (#196)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:47:13 PM EST
    Why don't we have a couple hundred thousand troops taking out ISIS and other radical islamist organizations that are known to use children as soldiers and/or human shields??

    Parent
    Why do young women support Sanders? (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 06:01:00 PM EST
    Because that's where the boys are (with respect to Connie Francis).

    At least according to Gloria Steinem

    Even I thnk (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 06:29:16 PM EST
    That's insulting.   Between this and Allbright talking about a special place in hell for women who "don't support women" translated as who don't vote for Hillary .....

    Let's just say I'm not sure this is helping.

    Parent

    If Albright actually said that (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by shoephone on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 07:02:05 PM EST
    then she is most definitely "not helping" the Clinton campaign.

    These were Steinem's comments:

    Steinem says young women are supporting Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders because "the boys are with Bernie."

    Steinem made the comment Friday night in response to a question from comedian and "Real Time" host Bill Maher when asked why the former secretary of state isn't doing better with young women.

    Steinem said that young women will get more radical as they age, because women lose power as they get older.

    which to my ear sounds not only generally insulting, but actually quite sexist. And what about young gay women who are supporting Sanders? What's their excuse?

    If this kind of nonsense from the Clinton camp continues, her campaign is going to turn even more people off. With friends like these, she doesn't need enemies.

    But it's good to know that Albright thinks I should go to hell, and that Steinem thinks I'm knee-jerk supporting Sanders because I'm too old to have any power. I guess I shouldn't point out that, considering their ages and according to Steinem's theory, they aren't nearly as activist as other "older" women. And Maher was correct to point out that if he had made Steinem's same comments, he would have gotten slapped down for it.

    These two are really blowing it.  

    Parent

    She said it (none / 0) (#184)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 07:29:28 PM EST
    Young people (none / 0) (#177)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 06:52:03 PM EST
    Do not have any allegiance to Clinton.

    Clinton, like Bush , is yesterdays news, at least to people under 30.

    From what I have read, young women actually are insulted that someone would expect them to support Hillary, solely because of gender.

    They have their issues, which are prominent for them. Which has driven Hillary much further left than she ever intended.
    And she knows she cannot win a general election without the under 30 vote, and has just made a special call for their support

    Hillary Clinton admitted during MSNBC's Democratic debate on Thursday night that she doesn't have the support of young people.

    "I hope that I will be able to earn their support," Clinton continued. "They may not support me now, but I support them and we'll work together.



    Parent
    Guess according to Allbright, all the women (none / 0) (#193)
    by MO Blue on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:42:03 PM EST
    in the U.S. should have voted Republican in 2008 to support the women candidate for V.P., Sara Palin. And in 2012, all women in the U.S. should have rallied around Michele Bachmann and voted in lock step to make her the first woman president in the U.S.

    Since I'm a woman who did not support either woman, I'm already condemned to hell per Allbright so her threat holds no weight with me. ;o)

    All joking aside, I don't think her argument or Steinman's will prove to be helpful to Hillary's campaign.

    Parent

    Saying something publicly or privately (none / 0) (#195)
    by christinep on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:22:21 PM EST
    MO Blue: As to whether the open statements by Albright and Steinem will prove helpful or not, I have no idea.  It may be that--unlike in other movements--some people legitimately would rather not be put in that spot (and, I can understand that sense of being pushed, etc.)

    As to whether the subject is important for more private discussion, persuasion ... that is where I can definitely say that, when the subject is raised, I've already urged that women friends who having trouble deciding think about their hopes, convictions, work for women at all levels AND think very seriously about the reality of this accomplished woman leader ... as an exceptional candidate and, in light of the obvious opportunity, as a the woman in front of us.  Not the theoretical woman; not the someday 100 years from now person of perfection; but a woman with scars and blemishes like all the male presidents have had for the 225 years plus of presidents.  My arm-twisting argument in private is really a version of "If not now, when" and the related "Fish or cut bait."  (But, then, I'm a hard-nose.)

    Ultimately--of course--the issue of woman qua woman must be very personal.  That in itself, as you know, is a key gut-level component of all Civil Rights movements.

    Parent

    Do you really support women (none / 0) (#197)
    by MO Blue on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:47:59 PM EST
    voting for a woman because she is a woman?

    Palin and Bachmann were women. We could have had a woman V.P. in 2008 if women voted in lock step for the woman candidate. Her name was Sarah Palin. We could have had a woman president in 2012 if women voted in lock step for the women candidate. Her name was Michele Bachmann.

    It was fair to say that neither of those women represented perfection but either would have broken the glass ceiling and been part of the Civil Rights movement you are citing. Yet, I don't recall you promoting their election just because they were women. No, if not now when. No fish or cut bait. No hard nose support of a candidate because she was a woman.

    You are very selective about when you believe that women should be supporting other woman. There is nothing wrong with that but it is a far cry from a women should support a woman because they are a woman and it is a civil rights issue or there is a special place in hell for people who don't support other women.

    Parent

    That's probably the most condescending (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:23:35 PM EST
    to women and least femnist thing I've ever heard Steinem say..

    Personally, I'd like to ask her, again, what was it exactly that drew her to the CIA and to men like Henry Kissinger.

    Some sort of twisted daddy-authoritarian issue?

    Parent

    Did you see my Millers Crossing (none / 0) (#188)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:32:30 PM EST
    Question upthread?

    Parent
    Maybe they have grandfather issues (none / 0) (#185)
    by McBain on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 07:46:54 PM EST
    Or maybe Clinton's just not likable and older women are willing to look past that because electing a female president would be a big deal to them.

    Is there a huge difference between young women and young men on this matter?  I assume young people in general prefer Sanders.

    Parent

    I understand perfectly (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by jbindc on Sun Feb 07, 2016 at 11:12:35 AM EST
    And what you don't understand is that if there are people choose not to support her in November because of something Madeline Albright said in February (a famous quote she's been saying for years),  then they weren't going to support her no matter what.  Why the smart people around here can't figure that out is beyond me, but maybe they just want to be outraged.

    And if those people want to continue to churn this up (like Republican sites are now), and it causes a wide-spread backlash and everyone turns on Hillary because of it, then I don't want to hear any whining or complaining about a Republican administration.  PUMA's were roundly condemned around here, but now they are rational people? Seriously, there are more people that will get out to vote than the very minuscule number of people who are going to use this as an excuse, if at all.

    Money in Politics (2.33 / 3) (#13)
    by Kmkmiller on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 10:56:18 PM EST
    The Goldman Sachs thing has actually hit the news cycle and not in a good way for Clinton, this is probably great news for Sanders. It is entirely possible there will be a day in the future when pundits discuss where Clinton went wrong and point to the speaking fees that led to her downfall.  

    In the twittersphere many clinton supporters are pointing out obvious things like its funny to see Andrea Mitchell talk about the issue given how much money Greenspan has earned. Yes he's no longer holding office but shes so sanctimonious so it looks funny.

    I've already expressed how silly it is, IMO.  No its not silly for everyone but is for me.  Also now thinking there's some sexism here. Rep. John Lewis is giving a talk at Goldman Sachs and he's still in office. No ones scrutinizing him.

    So I'm wondering after hearing all the talking heads opine on this issue:  I have to wonder if Barack Obama or Michelle Obama will have to say "no" to offers to speak at a bank (or anywhere) if they wish to pursue any other political career?  

    Thoughts on that question are welcome.

    Onto the topic of campaign finance. First I'm for public financing (I think it's funny most of that money will still come from the super rich and wall street) cause it removes appearances of conflict of interest

    Now I would be saying this even if Clinton wasn't running cause it just never made sense to me.  I hear these arguments, they seem to suggest that if you gave Rubio enough money he would support the Iran deal. Does it really work that way?  Probably not.  

    So I think a politician has a record or a set of policies they support and they are rewarded for advocating and pursuing those policies by donors who agree with them. Simple as that really.

    So why does anyone at Wall Street want a certain progresive politician?  Well this goes back to being able to have a broader view of Wall Street.  We already know millionaires like JJ Abrams and Susan Sarandon support dems but why?  Dems will raise their taxes substantially, right?  Well these two 1%ers want their taxes raised cause they know it is not only their civic duty, giving back to the country that made them so rich, but also out of self Interest.  They believe if they pay more taxes, there will be a more robust economy and more people will be able to watch more of their movies.

    Now if thats not so hard to imagine, why is it so hard to imagine there are people, very very rich people on wall street would have the same values as their hollywood counterparts? A robust middle class means more people investing, right?

    We already know two examples, Soros, and Buffet.

    Anyway I just don't ever see any quid pro quos on this issue.  If there were quid pro quos Clinton would now say she supports legalizing marijuana after receiving a huge (massive actually) check from Soros.

    I appreciate being able to express these views here I know there's other places where they would be considered quite radical and maybe offensive.

    Just another example (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 04:58:28 AM EST
    Of very poor judgement, at a minimum.
    When you are planning to run for for President,
    the issue of the day for Democrats is income inequality, you do not go into the Den of the Inequality Beast, Wall Street, and have millions bestowed upon you, just for a half hour speech.
    At a minimum again, as George Stephanopoulos aptly put it, it buys access.
    And to then state , well , I wasn't sure if I was going to run for President, well, saying something like that just adds to the trustworthy deficit.
    Andrea Clinton is a reporter, I fail to see how her husband earns his money should reflect upon her reporting of events. John Lewis is not running for President, and if his constituents want to hold him accountable for taking Wall St money, and however he votes on banking issues, they can do so.
    Then her husband taking huge speaking fees from countries and individuals with matters being evaluated by the State Department, while Hillary was SOS, another instance of greed over good judgement. The perception is just awful.

    Parent
    "Millions/" (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by MKS on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:31:48 AM EST
    Next week, it will be "billions."

    Parent
    I promise (none / 0) (#102)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:57:55 AM EST
    Not billions, just this

    (CNN)Hillary Clinton and her husband, former President Bill Clinton, combined to earn more than $153 million in paid speeches from 2001 until Hillary Clinton launched her presidential campaign last spring, a CNN analysis shows.

    In total, the two gave 729 speeches from February 2001 until May, receiving an average payday of $210,795 for each address. The two also reported at least $7.7 million for at least 39 speeches to big banks, including Goldman Sachs and UBS, with Hillary Clinton, the Democratic 2016 front-runner, collecting at least $1.8 million for at least eight speeches to big banks.

    Parent

    Here's one of those speeches (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 04:55:15 PM EST
    paid for by Goldman Sachs

    I warn you: it's shocking. And we don't even have to wait for the transcript.

    The topic? "10,000 Women: Proving the Case for Women Entrepreneurs"

    My gawd!  Why would she be talking about empowering women??  

    Parent

    So (none / 0) (#106)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:00:44 PM EST
    An average of $5.5 million a year each.

    Parent
    So what? (none / 0) (#108)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:01:25 PM EST
    We all know the GOP could care less about people making money on speeches. You're just concern trolling. Most people don't care about that. What they care about is what is going to make THEIR lives better. I guess since the email thing was a big fail this is the next thing the GOP is going to yammer about. You know you only can shop conspiracy theories for so long before you've lost all credibility.

    Parent
    It isn't the GOP you need to worry (none / 0) (#115)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:12:23 PM EST
    about. You need to worry about ALL the voters and how they see this as influence peddling.

    And their lives haven't been getting better. Look at household income and the inequality spread.

    Why do you think Trump is ringing the bells he's ringing?

    This ain't your father's election!

    Parent

    Trump isn't ringing any more bells (none / 0) (#116)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:18:06 PM EST
    than the disgraced Shrub rang, and primarily with the same people.

    Care to make another prediction for November?

    What with all those ringing bells and all?

    Parent

    Not sure that's the greatest analogy (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:45:40 PM EST
    Considering he was oresident fir 8 years.

    Parent
    Yeah..true.. (none / 0) (#130)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 01:47:51 PM EST
    and the same people still haven't learned their lesson.

    And they're gonna take the rest of us down with 'em if it's the last thing they ever do.

    Parent

    1 problem (none / 0) (#120)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:58:38 PM EST
    Hillary is not looking for votes among GOP voters, she needs them from the Democratic constituency,

    And they do have a problem with Hillary's life among the 1%.

    She is losing 80% of he vote under 30, and that is the group that Obama energized for his 2008 win

    Parent

    Nice smear (none / 0) (#128)
    by MKS on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 01:40:46 PM EST
    You aggregate all her speaking fees....not just the Goldman Sachs fees--which are not in the millions.  

    Parent
    Forget Goldman Sachs for a minute (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by shoephone on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:34:29 PM EST
    She netted $3 million for 12 speeches to Wall Street firms--including Goldman Sachs, which she spoke to multiple times--in just one year, 2013. This is well documented.

    But let's look at the bigger picture, which is not simply "Goldman Sachs" but the money she has made giving speeches to many of these groups, from 2013 to 2015. The total is well over $20 million. And the majority of those speeches were to investment banks, hedge fund companies, health care and drug companies, media and entertainment companies, and of course, law firms. Her rate for each of these speeches was $225,000. How many Americans earn $225,000 in one year, much less in one hour?

    And Bill's haul from speeches during the same period was even higher than Hillary's. Between the two of them, they earned $48.3 million in speeches from 2013-2015.

    The cry that this is a smear is pretty silly. The numbers "speak" for themselves--numbers which are mind boggling for a candidate who says she's going to rein in Wall Street.

    Parent

    Funny you should ask... (none / 0) (#146)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:57:55 PM EST
    how many Americans make 200 grand a year...Bill Clinton's pension as a former pres is about 200 grand a year.

    And if historical knowledge serves, we started giving former presidents a pension so they wouldn't have to do things like give paid speeches or do All State commercials to make ends meet, as it reflects poorly on the office.

    Parent

    Actually (none / 0) (#147)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 03:03:15 PM EST
    Presidents didn't get pensions until 1958 Because Congress thought it seemed too unseemly for them to get such a pension.

    Parent
    Wiki doesn't cover the why... (5.00 / 3) (#151)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 03:15:19 PM EST
    Truman's wiki has more detail...Truman didn't wanna sully the office, so he refused corporate work, and he was pretty hard up for cash...

    The former president was quoted in 1957 as saying to then-House Majority Leader John McCormack, "Had it not been for the fact that I was able to sell some property that my brother, sister, and I inherited from our mother, I would practically be on relief, but with the sale of that property I am not financially embarrassed."[191] The following year, Congress passed the Former Presidents Act, offering a $25,000 yearly pension to each former president, and it is likely that Truman's financial status played a role in the law's enactment.[184] The one other living former president at the time, Herbert Hoover, also took the pension, even though he did not need the money; reportedly, he did so to avoid embarrassing Truman.[192]

    Parent

    You sound like Hillary (none / 0) (#138)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:35:55 PM EST
    That was not a Artful Smear

    Those were facts, they made 150 million over 10 years giving speeches

    And specifically broken out for the banks

    Facts are Facts, Part of the Creme de la Creme

    1%

    The two also reported at least $7.7 million for at least 39 speeches to big banks, including Goldman Sachs and UBS, with Hillary Clinton, the Democratic 2016 front-runner, collecting at least $1.8 million for at least eight speeches to big banks.

    Parent

    you're in luck (none / 0) (#17)
    by Kmkmiller on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:53:40 AM EST
    I'm busy all day tomorrow so this last comment for like maybe 24 hours...

    here's Rep. John Lewis's talk at Goldman Sachs....

    looks like fun.

    Link

    Parent

    Given his longstanding financial problems ... (none / 0) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 03:40:02 AM EST
    Kmkmiller: "I hear these arguments, they seem to suggest that if you gave Rubio enough money he would support the Iran deal."

    ... and personal history as a self-indulgent spendthrift, it's safe to say that one can never give Marco Rubio enough money.

    ;-D

    Parent

    "The biggest debt I have... (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:52:31 AM EST
    is to America". In that case, consider it excused Marco. If you'll just go away on a 3 hour tour on your luxury yacht...excuse me offshore fishing vessel. A 3 hour tour...and don't forget to take Thurston Howell!

    Parent
    Marco Rubio's obvious inability to ... (none / 0) (#95)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:44:05 AM EST
    ... rein in his personal spending habits and get his own financial house in order is a legitimate campaign topic. In particular, his repeated misuse of a Florida Republican Party-issued American Express card for what were clearly personal expenses while he served as that state party's chair directly calls into question his own ethics.

    Rubio's glib retorts to "Jeb!" Bush's questions about his personal financial troubles may have sufficed to temporarily deflect and parry the issue during early GOP debates. But it continues to dangle over him like an anvil suspended by a fraying rope, as well it should. It's certainly apparent that the guy has no self-discipline when it comes to handling money, and pretentiously subscribes to a lifestyle that's way over his head.

    I mean, how else does one run up what's been reported to be over $900,000 in personal debt by age 36, NOT including a home mortgage and student loans? For all intents and purposes, he's had to be bailed out twice by political sugar daddies, most recently with a reputed seven-figure book deal to write his memoirs. (He then used part of his advance to buy that nice sportfishing boat mentioned in my earlier link.)

    That Rubio's an irresponsible spendthrift constitutes not just a political liability, but also highlights serious personal vulnerability as well.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Lol (none / 0) (#100)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:53:17 AM EST
    That has been tried , and debunked. Ask Charlie Christ, he ran on it , no traction.
    There is no there, there.

    Now, talk about campaign issues,

    A ex President receiving hundreds of thousands of speaking fees from countries and people with issues pending before the State Department,

    And lets throw in some money to the Clinton Foundation, a holding tank to keep former Clintonites on the payroll until 2016

    Now there is a real campaign issue for ya,

    And not no piddly $10k

    Parent

    Marco (none / 0) (#105)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:58:57 AM EST
    can't run on managing money or balancing the budget for sure. No one would take him seriously.

    Yes, we all know the GOP is going to continue to shop conspiracy theories.

    Also he's an "anchor baby" that the GOP protests to hate and wants to strip of his citizenship. How many Republicans are going to show up to vote for an "anchor baby". He can continue to come in 3rd in primaries but sooner or later that's not going to be enough.

    Parent

    That's just nonsense. (none / 0) (#131)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:00:25 PM EST
    And it really doesn't say much for you, that you would deem as trivial a presidential candidate's obvious inability to manage his own personal finances in an honest, forthright and ethical manner. Clearly, you are not someone to be taken seriously at all in any further discussion.

    And on that regard, it's no small wonder why the Republican Party has gone completely off the rails, with apologists like yourself constantly  enabling the inexcusable, dismissing inconvenient facts and ignoring uncomfortable truths, all in a conscious effort to peddle political fairy tales. Because in the real world, most sane and rational people will see through that sort of behavior as nothing more than willful self-delusion.

    Have a nice day.

    Parent

    It has (none / 0) (#140)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:40:07 PM EST
    Been brought up in campaigns by better campaign managers than you,
    And debunked
    Not an issue

    Didn't hear anything regarding the ethics of fees for Bill Clinton, or payments to the Clinton Foundation, by countries with issues before the State Department.
    And there were also a couple of Oopsies, where they didn't request permission for a speech by Bill as they promised the Obama Administration that they would.
    Just typical of the Clintons, She has earned her untrustworthy polling numbers

    Parent

    The stories about Rubio's finances ... (none / 0) (#167)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 05:54:16 PM EST
    ... have NOT been debunked. That you would wrongly believe it to be otherwise reflects directly upon the BS-trafficking right-wing sources that you read, watch and listen to. You haven't a friggin' clue about what's true and what isn't, and worse still you really don't care. You don't offer anything here in these discussions but regurgitated Fox droppings.

    Adios.

    Parent

    Donald (none / 0) (#176)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 06:46:59 PM EST
    Real smear merchants have tried to sully Rubio with these claims , and have all been debunked.

    Now, how is it referred to here,

    A Nothingburger.

    Try again.

    Now Madame Sec finances, the Clinton Foundation finances, the State Department decisions,

    Ah, now we are talking about real money

    Parent

    They have (none / 0) (#181)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 07:23:05 PM EST
    not been "debunked" they are true however so far nobody has cared about them because he's been polling down at the bottom. There's a big difference between being debunked and people caring whether he manages money well or not. I seriously doubt that most Republicans care about the fact that he can't manage money because after all George W. Bush had the same problem.

    Parent
    Okay (none / 0) (#183)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 07:28:21 PM EST
    Thats why he won the election in Florida

    Nothingburger

    Parent

    The math??? (none / 0) (#101)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:56:00 AM EST
    Well these two 1%ers want their taxes raised cause they know it is not only their civic duty, giving back to the country that made them so rich, but also out of self Interest.  They believe if they pay more taxes, there will be a more robust economy and more people will be able to watch more of their movies.

    At an effective tax rate of 30%, that's after all deductions, etc., the feds take 30 cents out of every dollar. So a dollar earned yields 70 cents or 70%. To break even you have to earn $1.43 or a 43% increase.

    If you increase the rate to 60% then you have to earn $1.65 to make a buck.

    At 90% you have to earn $2.00 to keep a dollar.

    So what you believe they believe is that they will double their income if they pay 90%??

    I believe they are making so much they want for nothing and not having a firm grasp of what the rest of us are going through think a 10% or so increase is not too much to ask. And make no mistake. If super rich is paying 90% the middle class will be paying 50% or moreeffective.

    Note I'm saying effective because that is what you pay after all deductions. Regan's huge cut's in the marginal rates actually raised some people's tax bill because they lost deductions.

    Truth be known 99.999% of the people look at taxes like this. Or as Democrat Senator Long from Louisiana infamously said,

    "Don't tax you. Don't tax me. Tax that feller behind that tree."

    We don't have a taxing problem. We have a spending problem.

    Parent

    terrible typing and proofing (none / 0) (#111)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:07:52 PM EST
    At 90% you have to earn $223 to keep a dollar.

    Parent
    90% only works during (none / 0) (#200)
    by Kmkmiller on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:43:57 PM EST
    the last century's 2nd world war.

    so no i'm not talking about 90%, and i stand by my belief that hollywood types and even wall street execs have something to gain by having a stronger middle class.

    Parent

    What's this? (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 08:40:39 PM EST
    Another outlier maybe-

    The poll also showed that Sanders, who is from neighboring Vermont, leads Clinton, 50 percent to 41 percent, with 8 percent undecided.

    The key factor contributing to Sanders' lead over Clinton is his advantage among independent voters, who favor him over Clinton, 57 percent to 30 percent. Sanders also leads among men, 59 percent to 30 percent, and in the areas along the Vermont state line, 60 percent to 32 percent.

    One complication, according to Paleologos, is whether independent voters are drawn into the Republican primary. That adds to the volatility in predicting Tuesday's results. Independent voters can take either a Republican or Democratic ballot on primary day.


    LINK

    Within 10 points is an outlier, yes (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Towanda on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 08:58:46 PM EST
    but who knows what will be the impact of this weekend's arrival in the state of many women in Congress, campaigning for Clinton -- organized by the senior woman in the Senate, Mikulski.

    My Senator Baldwin will be there.

    Parent

    I have been hearing reporters (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 09:05:04 PM EST
    Saying they believe Hillary's support and strength in NH is being underestimated.

    Let's hope so.  I think she came from behind here before.  

    Seems like the outliers are happening a bit more often.

    Parent

    I think she's going to lose (none / 0) (#29)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:11:27 AM EST
    Pretty big, but not as big as their talking now.  NH is funny in that there are lots of independents who can vote in either primary, and many, many of them don't decide until late.  There could be some who decide that since Bernie's up by so much, they'll vote in the Republican primary.

    Parent
    They are, not their (none / 0) (#30)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:12:10 AM EST
    Sheesh

    Parent
    That only works if a voter (none / 0) (#32)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:35:35 AM EST
    isn't a registered Democrat at the time of the election:

    One key difference between New Hampshire and other states is that undeclared voters can instantly join, and subsequently leave, a political party at any time. While registering as a Republican or Democrat needs to be done through a voter's town hall, and registered voters can only vote within their own party, undeclared voters in New Hampshire can walk into a polling station on election day and request either a Republican or Democratic ballot. While casting the ballot does effectively register the voter as being a member of the party, a simple signature on the way out of the polling station is all it takes to return to undeclared status.



    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#46)
    by FlJoe on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:21:25 AM EST
    but a it's whopping 40% of NH voters, it does seem like a pretty big wild card.

    I would speculate that the GOP dogfight would gather more interest than Sander's apparent blowout win. It stands to reason that some voters would decide that their vote can make a bigger difference in the Republican race.

    IMO, the GOP primary is going to shave off a larger slice of the Independent vote, mostly helping Hillary and the establishment Republicans, I am sensing Kasich gaining the most from it.

    Parent

    And since (none / 0) (#47)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:25:32 AM EST
    You can change your party affiliation on the day of the vote, it wouldn't be very hard.

    Link

    Perceiving that Bernie Sanders has a wide lead in New Hampshire Democratic polls over Hillary Clinton, some independents such as Longabaugh say they are drawn more to the Republican primary, where their vote could have more effect in a crowded field.

    At the same time, it would be for many an "anti" vote -- as in anti-Trump, anti-Cruz, or anti-Marco Rubio -- and a way to help a more moderate candidate such as Kasich survive beyond New Hampshire.

    SNIP

    Though undeclareds make up nearly 44 percent of New Hampshire's 873,932 registered voters (compared with 26 percent registered Democrat and 30 percent Republican), they share an aversion to labels more than they share a common set of views. They are divided roughly into thirds among those who typically lean Democratic, lean Republican, or are true centrists.

    A new Boston Globe/Suffolk University poll of 500 "very likely" Democratic and 500 "very likely" Republican primary voters included 286 who identified as independent/undeclared voters; a sizable majority (three-fifths) planned to vote in the GOP primary this time. And that doesn't include independents still trying to make up their minds.



    Parent
    If MSNBC has anything (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:26:35 AM EST
    To do with it Kasich will.  It has been the Kasich channel for  the last couple of days.  Alas I suspect their influence with GOP voters is slight.  And perhaps the reverse of what is intended.

    Parent
    And if the NYT (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:31:51 AM EST
    and the Boston Globe have any influence with those voters.

    Parent
    Real Clear POlitics (none / 0) (#22)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 05:02:26 AM EST

    RCP Average    2/2 - 2/4    Sanders +17.6
    Boston Globe/Suffolk    2/2 - 2/4 Sanders +9
    WBUR/MassINC    2/2 - 2/4    Sanders +15
    UMass/7News (Tracking)    2/2 - 2/4 Sanders +15
    ARG (Tracking)    2/3 - 2/4-    Sanders +16
    CNN/WMUR    2/2 - 2/4-    Sanders +31
    NBC/WSJ/Marist    2/2 - 2/3-    Sanders +20

    Parent

    Given last night's debatethe Eric Braden (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 08:56:07 PM EST
    reporting on CNN's website today re Sen. Sanders and $$ is interesting.

    link

    Hmmmmm (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 09:01:47 PM EST
    Sanders has based his presidential campaign on a fire-and-brimstone critique of a broken campaign finance system -- and of Hillary Clinton for her reliance on big-dollar Wall Street donors. But Sanders is part of that system, and has helped Democrats court many of the same donors.

    A Democratic lobbyist and donor who has attended the retreats told CNN that about 25% of the attendees there represent the financial sector -- and that Sanders and his wife, Jane, are always present.

    "At each of the events all the senators speak. And I don't recall him ever giving a speech attacking us," the donor said. "While progressive, his remarks were always in the mainstream of what you hear from senators."

    Sanders' political leanings were well known by the donors who attended the retreats. "Nobody was more surprised that Bernie was there than the donors were," said another Democrat who attended the retreats.



    Parent
    I guess complaints... (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 07:58:02 AM EST
    that Sanders doesn't "help" Democrats can be put to bed. He whored dutifully.

    Parent
    Waiting to see that (none / 0) (#27)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:08:16 AM EST
    On his website - "He whored dutifully," with the added "just like every other politician".

    Parent
    Yet (none / 0) (#28)
    by FlJoe on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:08:51 AM EST
    he is the first to condemn the hookers on the corner. There is more than a whiff of hypocrisy here.

    Parent
    I don't know... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:40:32 AM EST
    what CNN is reporting is a far cry from Schumer or Clinton level whoring...All I see here is appearing at DSCC orgies and taking some DSCC cash.  And the Rockefeller thing...that's the worst of it.

    Miniscule amounts in the big scheme...but let's see what else they dig up. So far, I see no whoring for personal monetary gain unlike some people;)

    Ironically, it only further highlights the issue. I'm not sure if that's a good thing for Clinton, but probably good for the country for the issue to stay on the front page.

    Parent

    So (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:43:36 AM EST
    He was a cheaper whore.  That's way better.

    Parent
    Trust me Cap... (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:48:13 AM EST
    you don't want this contest coming down to the whoring issue. It's probably the only way your lady could possibly lose.

    So by all means, let's make an Excel whoring spreadsheet!

    It's not Sanders you must vanquish remember, it's an idea.

    Parent

    Exactly (none / 0) (#39)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:58:03 AM EST
    Sanders is a piker compared to Madame Sec,

    She is the Goldman Sachs choice of candidates, now there is a ringing endorsement , well, looks like they will keep that one quiet

    In a CNBC interview this morning, Blankfein, who has been a Hillary Clinton supporter in the past, was asked if he is again supporting the Democratic frontrunner, who narrowly won Iowa. Blankfein dodged the question.

    "I don't want to help or hurt anybody by giving them my endorsement," he said.

    lol

    Blankfein supported Clinton for president in 2008 when she lost the nomination to Barack Obama. And he has widely been reported as helping Clinton raise money for her current campaign. So it seemed odd that he wasn't willing to publicly say he is backing her.

    The reason could be that Blankfein thinks his endorsement could be perceived as a black mark for Clinton. Her neck-and-neck rival Bernie Sanders has made Wall Street greed and breaking up the big banks a key point of his campaign. And he's said that Clinton is too close to Wall Street to reign in the influence of the financial sector.



    Parent
    Too late Lloyd... (none / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:11:47 AM EST
    you already have helped Sanders immensely, just by being you.

    And as for hurting a candidate, that ship sailed too smart guy.

    You'd think he'd have the sense to keep those kiss of death lips shut till December. More proof of a rigged fraud when this idiot is a Wall St. success
    story!

    Parent

    The actual historical record bears out (none / 0) (#74)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:38:17 AM EST
    that just about EVERY candidate eventually becomes "the Goldman Sachs candidate". Or to be more accurate, the dangerously-deregulated financial sector candidate..

    There's nothing all that terribly unique about Hillary. Certainly nothing that would make any SANE civic-minded person look any more favorably upon your scorched earth, every-man-for-himself libertarian amigos on the right.

    Parent

    A cheaper whore than the other (none / 0) (#132)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:06:38 PM EST
    cheap whore, I mean whores.

    I think I saw a Louisiana politician use that on a bumpersticker once.

    Parent

    An honest politician (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 02:49:55 PM EST
    is one who stays bought.

    Parent
    About the word "whore" (none / 0) (#161)
    by christinep on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 04:18:59 PM EST
    Is that word--historically or recently--ever applied to a male in politics or business or civic enterprises?

    Without getting too deep into the woods of candidates & the various contributions they receive: The other day, a thought pattern struck from out-of-the blue...if a well-known individual, known to be a high-draw in terms of paying attendees/participants at an event (business, entertainment, scholarly, whatever) agrees to address your event, who benefits? Then, says I to myself as I remembered attending relatively high $$$$ organization lunches/dinners of various kinds--legal, political, entertainment, religious, general--that there usually are Many Beneficiaries in those set-ups.  The speaker who gets a high fee; the organization who stands to gain in terms of attendance fees and/or growth in membership and/or PR and/or attracting sought-after personnel and/or all the participants who get to hear from a person they wanted to hear.  Fascinating.

    Even more fascinating: Thinking about "celebrity"--political, entertainment, business, or representative of any movement--
    it does seem to follow that those most in demand at any kind of venue can and do receive very high speaker fees.  We won't even talk about sports or stars ....  And, in the same vein, I'd venture that the biggest draws who get the biggest fees speak at more events--varied, private & public--than those who are regarded as lesser draws.  And then, I wonder if an individual who speaks at/addresses many, many groups really feels any sense or obligation of a quid pro quo when there are a kazillion groups/types wanting a bit of the action OR could it be that the tacit quid pro quo (if any) would be more likely to present itself in the case of a lesser known speaker/a lesser draw who maybe attends/addresses a handful of interest groups a year???  

    The reason that I raise these questions is not to present a "defense" of HRC ... as I've openly supported her strongly for years here ... nor is it to contend that the "system" is good or anything near that in terms of speaker fees.  Heck, I seem to recall that the infamous Newt Gingrich delivered a successful attack against Speaker Wright(?) years ago because he received certain speaker fees while IN office ... of course, the later fun part as we came to find out was that the successor Speaker Gingrich did the same thing.  SO, what does this "who takes the most money in speakers' fees" really mean?  Is there a valid claim of wrongdoing being suggested?  If so, what is the claim?  

    Speakers fees. Is it about money & envy?  Is it about the fact that things are more or less out of proportion around the world and in the US? Is it about the candidates? Is it this election cycle's Red Herring? And as for the laser focus in this regard on the drawing-power of HRC, is this a moral failing that only she evidences OR is it another "email top secret thing" not unlike the now-revealed Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell procedure or another Benghaziii hunt???

    (An aside: Ya' gotta admit that the media insinuations about honesty/dishonesty and who-is-the-purest routine is rather silly when considering talks about major system change versus incremental change in the system in terms of the "promises" the differing plans entail.  In my experience: The bigger the clarion call for systemic overhaul, the bigger the chance that the promise cannot be fulfilled.  The talk about honesty is s..u...r...e fascinating.

    Advance apology:  I'm cranky today ... as a Denverite not wanting to see anything near a repeat of our Super Bowl mashing by Seattle two years ago.  A lot of us around here are really walking on superstitious egg shells today.

    Parent

    This is (none / 0) (#42)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:11:45 AM EST
    why the whole discussion is completely stupid.

    Parent
    The republican debate tomorrow (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 05, 2016 at 09:19:39 PM EST
    Coukd be totally worth watching.  With Marco "surging" and Ted caught red handed rat fu@king Carson.  

    Good times.  

    Not (none / 0) (#24)
    by FlJoe on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 06:16:22 AM EST
    to mention Christie becoming desperate, at least Carson will be wearing clean underwear.

    Parent
    They are also saying (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:34:21 AM EST
    Carson is so pi$$ed he is now going to stay in through SC no matter what just to mess with Ted.

    Pi$$ed Carson.  Hard to imagine that without involving the guy from SNL.


    Parent

    Does that mean... (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 08:42:35 AM EST
    Carson brings his blade to SC?

    Parent
    It means the other participants are (none / 0) (#45)
    by Anne on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:21:09 AM EST
    searching for that special belt buckle to ward off The Ben Blade.

    Parent
    A blade and a hammer.. (none / 0) (#72)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:25:14 AM EST
    like a guy in the ancient Roman games.

    Benius Carsonus vs Tedius Dickheadius.

    Parent

    Sweet Saturday Double Header... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:36:08 AM EST
    First up a little CYO Class C Girls Basketball Long Island Championship Game, my niece and her scrappy band of ballers gonna bring home the glory. My lil booger dropped 11 on 'em in the semis including a buzzer beater 3 pointer before the half.

    Then the mad dash to Crooklyn to see Ryan Bingham with the concert crew. Hey Hey Hurrah!

    Hey hey, what can you say?
    The cops will taser all of your brains
    Can't be sayin' them crazy things
    Ain't enough money in change these days
    Corporate money singin' jing a ling
    Won't you believe in the president's ways?
    Give your rights away and say hurray
    Hurray

    Guess what re-apperared on FaceBook (none / 0) (#155)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 03:42:05 PM EST
    this week?  Photo of you and me at B.B. king's for John Mayall.  

    Parent
    So, in Iowa (none / 0) (#53)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:37:39 AM EST
    The Democratic Party is reviewing the caucus results after both the Sanders and Clinton camps flagged some potential errors and The Des Moines Register publicly called for an audit.

    The total state delegate equivalents that are being challenged are 1.7947.  HRC's win was by 3.77.

    But this again proves why this is a terrible way to choose a nominee.

    Have you seen any discussion of (none / 0) (#64)
    by Anne on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:59:02 AM EST
    how Iowa would get around NH's claim on "first in the nation" primary - if that was being floated?

    If they absolutely must do the caucus thing, it seems like they need better rules/process.

    Or something, because this is just ridiculous.

    Parent

    By the DNC and RNC telling IA and NH (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by magster on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:09:41 AM EST
    their delegates won't count at the convention if they don't give up their claim to being "first".

    Parent
    No, but (none / 0) (#67)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:08:21 AM EST
    I am so over this stuff.  Why do the people in Iowa and New Hampshire get their a$$es kissed for months and the rest of us don't?  Even if they wanted to stick to small states - why are the people in Wyoming or Rhode Island any less worthy?

    Parent
    Any suggestions (none / 0) (#60)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 09:53:29 AM EST
    For a non-Apple laptop?  Mine literally just died 10 minutes ago.  Don't want to spend a lot, and I'm not a gamer, but I need it to support the basics.

    Thoughts?

    If you don't mind storage on the cloud.... (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by magster on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:11:15 AM EST
    My daughter and my dad both love their Chromebooks. They are about $170 on e-bay.

    Parent
    Get yourself an older PC (none / 0) (#76)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:43:49 AM EST
    that can't run Windows 10.  A lot of computer repair places have such laptops, I paid about 100$ for mine along with a new battery for like 20$, and as long as you don't  have a lot of tabs open on your browser or a lot of things running at once, it should be okay.

    Parent
    I'll ook into that, thanks (none / 0) (#77)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 10:54:26 AM EST
    Can we start petitioning now (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:39:55 AM EST
    For a debate thread tonight?

    Go to twitter (none / 0) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:49:14 AM EST
    if you have an account and tweet to BTD.

    Parent
    I hate Twitter (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:58:54 AM EST
    New thread please

    Parent
    After less than a week, my observation is that (none / 0) (#152)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 03:38:59 PM EST
    following twitter is a huge time-consumer

    Parent
    What is his handle? (none / 0) (#99)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 11:52:56 AM EST
    @Armandodkos (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Coral Gables on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 12:01:43 PM EST
    Questions about Sanders health plan (none / 0) (#153)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 03:39:04 PM EST
    Hoping our resident experts have answers.

    Since Sanders' plan is silent on the Hyde Amendment, as he has been, and since his plan would forbid any private insurance that duplicates services in his single payer plan, what are the odds that insurance companies will stay in business just to sell abortion policies?

    And how would this square with the Hobby Lobby decision?  Could companies opt of paying into the federally run single payer health system on religious grounds? (Thereby also reducing the money to pay for it?) Are private insurance companies going to stay around to sell contraceptives?

    How are women's reproductive needs going to be fully met?

    Madoff... (none / 0) (#154)
    by lentinel on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 03:41:07 PM EST
    I watched the Madoff television show staring Richard Dreyfus.

    I thought Dreyfus was compelling as the character he was portraying.

    However, I thought that they really let the SEC off the hook for the most part.

    Markopolos was presenting them with evidence of Madoff's thievery for over ten years.

    And they ignored it.

    Except for a sentence or two, the SEC gets away with it in this tv version.

    Harry Markopoulos's book, "No One Would Listen", really tells it the way it happened. The SEC is indicted as an organization which does nothing to protect the people. Rather it is shown to be but a tool of corporate Wall Street.

    The TV show backs away from making this plain.
    And I think it is a glaring omission.

    It shows, imo, how much power these s.o.b.s still sway.

    Madoff, alternately was depicted as a sympathetic rogue, a family man who only cheated people who were out to get what they could get, and someone who cheated honest people out of their life's savings.

    Mostly about his dealing with the very rich, and very little about his swindling the helpless - the working stiffs.

    Some of his dialogue seemed to me to be stolen from, or heavily influenced by, "Goodfellas" - the voiceover - or narration - from "Madoff" - (as spoken by Dreyfus) was similar to that of "Henry Hill".

    And there was entirely too  much goo. Imo.
    Madoff the Family Man. Who needs that?

    And it also takes a stand on whether the sons and Mrs. Madoff knew what was going on. The show says they didn't, but I am not at all sure on what they base their conclusion.

    In all, I think that they let Madoff off too easy.
    Pulling off a scam on rich people who are already looking to scam their way into even more money is different than screwing working people who are looking for little more than to survive.

    All in all - mediocre. imo.

    Is ABC still owed by Disney?

    Thank you to Anne for recommending the Markopolos book.

    The SEC let everybody off the hook. (5.00 / 2) (#179)
    by NYShooter on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 07:10:27 PM EST
    Markopolos wasn't the only one who knew what Madoff was up to. JPMorgan Chase was Madoff's bank for two decades, two decades of laundering Madoff's Billions, with no questions asked. They, also, were told about Bernie's scam, even some of their own executives brought up the question. But, it didn't take long for them to adopt the "see no evil, speak no evil," meme, and, it just became an open secret.

    After Madoff's crash, Preet Bharara, the United States attorney in Manhattan, had a private meeting with Jamie Dimon, the chief executive of JPMorgan Chase, and, told him they had felony charges written up, all ready to go.

    As always, Jamie reached into his wallet, peeled off 2 Billion Bucks, and even got an agreement from the Prosecutor that they wouldn't have to admit any guilt if they promised to be good boys & girls for two years.

    For a company that had revenues of 23 Billion IN THE LAST QUARTER of 2015, with profits of about 6 Billion, they must still be laughing about their punishment to this day.

    Parent

    I'd pay money to watch (none / 0) (#156)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 03:45:28 PM EST
    Trump debate Clinton.

    Of course both have to be nominated. As I said while you were gone.

     

    Hillary won't fix "it." Bernie won't fix "it" nor will any of the Repubs except Trump might. Of course he isn't a Repub and I hope he is pragmatic enough to do some things that none of the "insiders" will do IF he gets nominated and elected. He is the only one who "might."

    Just think. A true single payer healthcare program and the decriminalization of the majority of our drug laws.



    Paybacks (none / 0) (#157)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 04:03:56 PM EST
    Sanders and the VA (none / 0) (#158)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 06, 2016 at 04:05:35 PM EST
    Not a campaign killer by any means, and I applaud him for the good work he did accomplish while on and running this committee, but it's only fair that Bernie Sanders has his political judgment questioned:

    There were reports of secret waiting lists to hide long delays in care. Whistleblowers said as many as 40 veterans had died waiting for appointments. And Congress was demanding answers.

    Despite mounting evidence of trouble at the Department of Veterans Affairs, Senator Bernie Sanders, then the chairman of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee, initially regarded the complaints as overblown, and as a play by conservatives to weaken one of the country's largest social welfare institutions.

    "There is, right now, as we speak, a concerted effort to undermine the V.A.," Mr. Sanders said two weeks after the story was picked up by national news organizations. "You have folks out there now -- Koch brothers and others -- who want to radically change the nature of society, and either make major cuts in all of these institutions, or maybe do away with them entirely."

    But the scandal deepened: The secretary of veterans affairs resigned. Reports showed major problems at dozens of V.A. hospitals. And an Obama administration review revealed "significant and chronic systemic leadership
    failures" in the hospital system.

    Mr. Sanders eventually changed course, becoming critical of the agency and ultimately joining with Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican, and other colleagues to draft a bipartisan bill to try to fix the veterans health care waiting list.

    Mr. Sanders's chairmanship of the committee, his most notable leadership post in the Senate, has become a go­to credential in his upstart quest to win the Democratic nomination for president. He routinely boasts of praise from the largest veterans organizations, who lauded his fight to expand benefits. And he frequently speaks of how he helped devise the wait time fix and was able to "crack the gridlock" of Washington, as one of his campaign mailers put it.

    But a review of his record in the job also shows that in a moment of crisis, his deep­seated faith in the fundamental goodness of government blinded him, at least at first, to a dangerous breakdown in the one corner of it he was supposed to police. Despite inspector general reports dating back a decade that documented a growing problem with wait times, Mr. Sanders, who had served on the committee for six years before he became its head, was quick to defend the agency and slow to aggressively question V.A. officials and demand accountability.

    His major objective as chairman was to expand the menu of veterans benefits. It was an ambitious goal, and as with his proposals today for free public college and universal health care, many viewed it as unrealistic. The cost was so high that even Republicans who normally favor more aid for veterans blanched at the dollars involved -- while fearing that more offerings would cause even longer waits at the overburdened V.A.

    "His ideological perspective blurred his ability to recognize the operational reality of what was happening at the V.A.," said Paul Rieckhoff, the founder of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. "The reality was that he was one of the last people to publicly recognize the gravity of the situation."

    SNIP

    In an interview last week, Mr. Sanders rejected the notion that he was slow to respond and lenient in his oversight, saying, "We did the very best that we could to make certain that veterans get the quality health care that they need." Instead, he spoke of his chairmanship as a period of accomplishment,
    highlighted by the passage of what he called "the most comprehensive" veterans health care legislation in "many, many decades."

    But when Anderson Cooper of CNN asked him on Wednesday about why he did not act sooner to address the wait times, Mr. Sanders conceded, "We should have done better."

    So, did they do the very best they could do or could they have done better?

    The funny thing is (none / 0) (#202)
    by jbindc on Sun Feb 07, 2016 at 06:44:55 AM EST
    No one around here had a problem with Albright's comnents when she made them in 2008.  

    It was even on Starbucks cups.  :)

    Not that funny jb (none / 0) (#203)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 07, 2016 at 08:52:16 AM EST
    I explained why I think it's a problem now more than then.

    Capt (none / 0) (#204)
    by jbindc on Sun Feb 07, 2016 at 09:52:40 AM EST
    I disagree.

    It's only going to be a problem with people who don't want to support her anyway.

    You think Republicans are going to use it?  Nope.  They are blasting it now because of course, they'd like to see her defeated because they think they can beat Bernie much easier.  In a general - you gonna risk telling some people who are very religious that if they don't vote for your opponent they are going to hell?  

    Nope

    What you seem incapable (none / 0) (#205)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 07, 2016 at 10:02:04 AM EST
    Of understanding, what multiple people have tried to tell you in these threads is that "people who don't want to support her" are going to be needed in November.  

    Those things do not help bring them along when this is over.  We both know how it's going to end.  Gleeful needling and rubbing their noses in it might make you feel good but it is not helpful in the bigger picture.

    Pharmaceuticals (none / 0) (#207)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Feb 08, 2016 at 09:48:27 AM EST
    I missed the conversation, buys wanted to add a coupel things.
    • Opioid-Induced Constipation (OIC), OK presumably this is a real issue, but do we need thick globed up paint and intestine clay animation to understand what constipation is, and during the Super Bowl ?  I know what constipation & IBS are I don't really need some marketing team hatching some way to show what it really looks like using fancy paint and animated intestines.  I am trying to eat from time to time while watching football.

    • Cialis, so now it's official the men using this are younger than me in the commercials, big deal, what bothers me is they show couples, on a huge dock, at the movie, and other public venues when it says something like, "Don't have the time to take a pill, Cialis."  WFT, when do you not have time to take a pill when you are public, or are they actually suggesting taking Cialis to engage in public sex at ~50.  I don't get the commercials, which of course always revolve around some contrived female fantasy where the man is helping her plant flowers, or walking hand & hand shopping, or there are two bathtubs on a lake.  Maybe if they started having contrived male fantasy they wouldn't need medication to get it on.

    • Lastly, I hate walking into a doctors office and the sign in sheet & pen are clearly some Pharma Reps free-bees.  Jesus, they can't afford pens and paper to at least try an appear impartial to my treatment.  It's getting harder and hard to find a doctor in which there aren't advertisements for medications everywhere.  It's like they don't even care that you know they are getting paid to deliver the drugs Big Pharma wants you taking.