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Thursday Open Thread

I'll be offline today, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    No charges for officer who shot Keith Scott (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by McBain on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 12:01:07 PM EST
    This was the innicdent in Charlotte NC that led to protests.  From the video it was unclear if Scott had a gun...

    Scott's relatives said he didn't have a gun, but "all the credible evidence" led to the conclusion that Scott was armed, Murray said. He said Scott's DNA was on the grip of a gun found at the scene.

    In other news, the Walter Scott shooting case (no relation to Keith I believe) is in the hands of a South Carolina jury today.  This was the one where video showed W. Scott being shot in the back after a possible struggle with a taser.

    All of these police related shooting cases are different but one thing they have in common is a rush to judgement.  

     

    Walter Scott (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by pitachips on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 09:35:41 PM EST
    Where was the rush to judgment? The video is pretty clear.

    Parent
    If you made up your mind from one video (none / 0) (#22)
    by McBain on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 11:14:43 PM EST
    You prove my point.  

    It was not clear from that video exactly what happened.  

    Parent

    It's not clear what happened? (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 01:08:20 AM EST
    Walter Scott was clearly shot in the back and killed as he was trying to run away, that's what happened.

    Parent
    Never the less (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 10:26:44 AM EST
    The shooter deserves a fair trial, without media prep, and a very long jail sentence when/if convicted.

    Parent
    Expecting media silence (none / 0) (#32)
    by pitachips on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 11:43:33 AM EST
    and/or speculation is unrealistic, but I don't think you'll find anyone here to disagree with you that he deserves a fair trial. And from all appearances it looks like he's getting one.  

    Parent
    That's not enough information to decide (none / 0) (#30)
    by McBain on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 10:31:18 AM EST
    Murder or manslaughter or possibly even not guilty.  What happened before the shooting is important. Cops have different rights and responsibilities than we do.  Sometimes they are allowed to shoot someone running away from them.  I don't know if that's the case here and neither do you.  

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#34)
    by pitachips on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 12:15:02 PM EST
    And that is what's happening right now. All of those things will obviously be considered.  think Mr. Scott

    What happened before the video, during the fight is an issue for the jury to decide since Mr. Scott is no longer alive.

    But there's no disputing the fact that Mr. Slager had his pistol out as Mr. Scott was running away. From the video they looked about 8-10 feet away by the time Mr. Slager had his weapon out and aimed. The shots then began when they were 15-20 feet apart while Mr. Scott was fully turned, running away. Shots 4-8 were taken when Mr. Scott was easily 40-50 feet away.

    Now, maybe you're fine with extending a cops "rights and responsibilities" to include shooting people guilty of a broken tail light and resisting/evading arrest.

    Parent

    Slager will probably have to show (none / 0) (#38)
    by McBain on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 01:47:39 PM EST
    that Scott was a threat to him or to others in order to be found not guilty.  Based on the limited information I've seen, that will be a difficult task.  

    The broken tail light doesn't matter much at this point.  It will be about the struggle before the video was captured that will matter.  

    Since the trial hasn't been televised to the best of my knowledge, it's hard to guess what will happen.  Slager testified, which is usually a bad sign for a defendant, although cops often  make good witnesses.  On the other hand the prosecution asked the judge to allow the jurry to consider manslaughter charges if the the threshold for murder wasn't met.

    Parent

    The only people who need to decide (none / 0) (#36)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 12:45:06 PM EST
    between murder, manslaughter and not guilty are the jurors. They will have enough information; it's called "trial evidence." Any other speculation is idle.

    Parent
    The court of public opinion (none / 0) (#37)
    by McBain on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 01:38:48 PM EST
     is a big deal.  The wrongfully, convicted sometimes get released, in part, because of public outrage/activism (like the West Memphis Three).   Those found not guilty, sometimes aren't welcomed by society with open arms (OJ, Casey Anthony)

    Parent
    The wrongly and wrongfully convicted, yes (none / 0) (#46)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 07:51:50 PM EST
    after trial and sentencing. Not the same thing as the matter presently under discussion at all. Yes, public opinion may influence prosecutors to exercise their discretion with respect to bringing or pursuing charges. But media-fed public "opinion" should not affect the outcome of trials.

    Parent
    Of course it shouldn't affect the outcome (none / 0) (#49)
    by McBain on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 08:54:23 PM EST
    but that doesn't mean it won't.  In this case it's been reported that the jury is divided 11-1 on one of the charges.  The alleged hold out sent the judge a letter saying he/she won't change his/her mind.  But since the judge didn't declare a mistrial and is giving the unsequestered jury a recess until Monday... who knows what will happen?

    I'm curious as to your opinion of the judge's decision to continue the trial after the jury came back deadlocked more than once? Seems like it might be a good cause for appeal if there's a conviction

    Parent

    it was a simple question (none / 0) (#23)
    by pitachips on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 12:50:58 AM EST
    I just asked where was the rush to judgment?

    Usually when people use that phrase it's in the context of someone who was unfairly convicted or otherwise treated poorly by the justice system.

    From what you know of the case, including the recent testimony, what do you think should've happened? Do you think they made a mistake indicting/trying him?

    Parent

    Update on Walter Scott/Slager case (none / 0) (#40)
    by McBain on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 02:07:20 PM EST
    Jury said they can't reach a consensus.  Judge tells them to keep trying.

    Hopefully, they won't make a compromise verdict.

    Parent

    Another sudden vote tally change (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by Towanda on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 04:22:17 PM EST
    this time in Philadelphia, Peter -- which changes the (still unofficial) Pennsylvania margin for Trump to under 1 percent there, too: 0.8 percent

    This was similar to the sudden, similarly unexplained (other than "tabulation error," well, doh) change in a couple of counties in Wisconsin last week, after embarrassing reveal of ridiculously bad math for more voters for president than overall -- which changed its margin for Trump to 0.7 percent.

    And Michigan has made some minimal changes but remains at a margin for Trump of only 0.2 percent.

    Interesting that such slim margins is exactly what the cybersecurity experts (who testified in Wisconsin) said to expect from outside interference . . . just enough but not too much.  And the feds now report internet interference in at least 10 states.

    I will look for this story (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Peter G on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 05:27:15 PM EST
    I imagine you mean Pennsylvania generally, not Philadelphia in particular. The HRC margin in Philly proper was probably 80%.

    Parent
    What were recorded today ... (none / 0) (#10)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 07:05:34 PM EST
    ... were the final returns from Philadelphia, which now completes the election in Pennsylvania.

    Parent
    Up to date info (none / 0) (#64)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Dec 04, 2016 at 12:58:44 PM EST
    - for this, go to Palmer Report.

    Still precinct by precinct recounts proceeding in PA; hope is to reduce Trump's margin to point where automatic recount kicks in.

    At the same time, Stein has switched to Federal court strategy.  

    Parent

    Ok, now I understand. The margin in (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Peter G on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 07:34:40 PM EST
    Philadelphia, after counting absentees and appropriate provisionals, was even more overwhelming for HRC than previously thought. This reduces the reported, net Tr*mp margin statewide correspondingly, to just 46,000 out of 5 million plus, or about 0.8%. Monday the state's Commonwealth Court (a specialized state-wide court for government-related matters) will hear the petition for a statewide audit or recount. Automatic recount would not apply unless margin was under 0.5%, which does not appear to be the case.

    Parent
    I'm not seeing (none / 0) (#14)
    by Towanda on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 09:11:46 PM EST
    where this differs from my post?

    Parent
    My fault. I somehow thought you were saying (none / 0) (#18)
    by Peter G on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 09:37:25 PM EST
    that the number of votes recorded for Tr*mp in Philly had gone down, rather than the number for HRC going up, and that somehow he had had a margin of victory there. But on re-reading I see you didn't say that at all. Sorry.

    Parent
    Michigan AG files lawsuit to stop recount. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by vml68 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 02:03:00 PM EST
    LINK

    I am far from being a conspiracy theorist but I think it's time for me to put the hat on!

    Parent

    Wisconsin GQP file to stop count underway (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Towanda on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 04:20:09 PM EST
    . . .  in a replay of 2000 in Florida -- as its argument is based on claiming that as precedent because of more than one counting method.  Of course, the Wisconsin GOP legislators already had recently revised the recount law to not require a hand recount only, to the judge's dismay last week.  But counties still can opt to do hand recounts, as some are doing.

    As to the question of whether the two GOP organizations now attempting to stop the recount even have standing, it has been pointed out -- with some hilarity -- that the law allows only candidates or voters to do so, and the GOP organizations lack the voter ID required . . . thanks to the Wisconsin GOP voter suppression laws in place for the first time in a presidential election in the state.

    In sum, yes, the desperation to stop or at least delay suggests that the cyber security experts who testified here were not the crazies in the courtroom.

    Parent

    Sorry for typos (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Towanda on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 04:21:48 PM EST
    from working on an unfamiliar tablet.

    Parent
    Anyone else (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Dec 04, 2016 at 12:56:12 PM EST
    recall how in 2000, Repug public relations campaign helped to move things in favor of Bush (v. Gore)?

    Why isn't Jill Stein having her demonstration in Phila. rather than NY?  

    If as many people turned as as turned out for Hillary's concert/campaign stop night before Election Day it could make an impression....

    Was it the movie Recount that showed how getting in front of the pubic relations campaign was a major factor in the Bush win in Bush v. Gore?

    Parent

    Diving legend... (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by desertswine on Sun Dec 04, 2016 at 12:12:21 AM EST
    Just in time... (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 10:21:36 AM EST
    to lift our spirits around the inauguration, Warren Haynes is taking an All-Star band on the road to continue to celebrate the 40th Anniversary of The Last Waltz.

    That'll take the edge off...Thanks Warren!

    Here is an article by Robbie Robertson (none / 0) (#2)
    by ruffian on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 11:39:25 AM EST
    on the making of The Last Waltz, from Vanity Fair last month. Some great behind the scenes anecdotes!

    Parent
    You two (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 12:33:46 PM EST
    I think the only thing that would make me happy today is 24 hours of AC/DC and a hit of acid

    Parent
    Woo hoo! (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 09:12:55 PM EST
    Pick me, pick me!

    Parent
    IKR...wouldn't you rather graffiti (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 09:33:16 PM EST
    The inside of a house right now than listen to a Trump celebration rally? I would rather graffiti the inside of my own house right this minute.  What world leader goes on tour or holds these sorts of rally things? Oh yeah! The littlest Kim in North Korea and Hitler.  He did Lügenpresse AGAIN....hello world....hello Presse...Lügenpresse! Lügenpresse!

    Parent
    All kidding aside... (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 12:05:18 PM EST
    recent research is showing great potential for psilocybin and other psychedelics to treat chronic depression, anxiety, ptsd.  

    Even in low or microdoses where it's not necessary to trip your face off.

    Parent

    I have tracked some of the micro dose (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 12:15:40 PM EST
    findings.

    Some of these soldiers come back and they've experienced things that the rest of us can't walk through with them. Wouldn't it be nice if we could help some of them have quality of life again?

    I was reading one story out loud to my husband, someone discussing using it for depression and trauma. The writing went, "You shouldn't use a dose high enough that it even makes rocks look slightly shiny."

    I really can't do acid. But Donald Trump makes me feel like things would be normal when he's rallying if I took a hit of acid. But in reality my imagination is way too big. It's just not good.

    Parent

    I went down an anecdotal... (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 02:42:18 PM EST
    rabbit hole myself in psychedelic message boards and what not after the recent mainstream media reports.  Aside from psychiatric issues, apparently magic mushrooms are a miracle cure for sufferers of cluster headaches and migraines.

    Back to the psychiatrics...one anecdote from a mental illness sufferer said they replaced daily doses of big pharma treatments with awful side effects that only helped a little with a pleasant mild trip every 6 months or so that helped them a ton and allowed them a side-effect free relatively normal life.  God damn shame we weren't doing these studies 50 years ago, how many lives could have been improved or saved?

    I think we might need them more than ever too...something about the modern world is crippling many of us with neurosis and feelings of isolation.  Psychedelics can help when used responsibly in appropriate settings.

    Parent

    I found Ken Kesey's (none / 0) (#47)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 08:27:56 PM EST
    Volunteering for LSD testing quite amazing, especially with his confounding the testers by accurately reciting to them the time interval that has passed upon their request.
    He was able to accomplish that feat by counting his pulse. Which I find completely amazing , especially after my experiences.
    The adventures of the Electric Kool Aid Acid test just boggled my mind.
    The antithesis of the Timothy Leary school of LSD use. Definitely not for the faint of heart

    Parent
    Trevor, quite amazingly, (none / 0) (#52)
    by fishcamp on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 09:47:39 PM EST
    I knew both Ken Kesey and Timothy Leary.  My land in Oregon was about 35 miles from Kelsey's Merry Prankster's spread outside of Springfield, Oregon.  One day I just took a chance and drove in.  After introductions we talked for quite a while. It was back when he was working on his famous busses.  He had three of them, and asked if I wanted to ride along.  This was back during my ski racing career, and it looked too wild and crazy for me.  I saw him several more times around San Francisco when I was shooting that Hells Angels film.  He was a bright and fun guy to be around.

    Then Timothy Leary came to Aspen looking for land to start a Milbrook west operation.  I was asked to drive him around the valley looking for a location.  We found some good ones, but nothing was ever established.  There was no LSD involved during the week I spent with him, but he drank an amazing amount of whiskey.  I could tell he was very bright, but from about noon on he rambled incoherently.  The good old days.


    Parent

    Lol (none / 0) (#53)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Dec 03, 2016 at 06:01:44 AM EST
    I knew both Ken Kesey and Timothy Leary.

    Somehow, that doesn't surprise me. Especially the Kesey connection. He was up and down that coast.

    Yes, downhill ski racing was probably much safer than riding around one of those buses. A wise choice, I think, but a missed experience, lol.

    I don't think I could have handled more than a long weekend with that crew, that would have been enough for a lifetime.

    Neal Casady (Dean Moriarity) seemed quite a character from the book, I am sure you would have remembered him if you met.

    Parent

    Robbie is really promoting... (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 12:56:07 PM EST
    his new book...Rolling Stone had an excerpt in a recent issue, and even the NY Daily News published an excerpt in the Sunday paper two weeks ago....which I thought was especially cool.

    I'll have to check it out as a counterpoint to Levon's memoir, as it regards to the bad blood between them.  

    Parent

    I know that Robertson and Helm ... (none / 0) (#7)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 05:24:36 PM EST
    ... had a very serious disagreement about the inclusion of Neil Diamond in "The Last Waltz." Robertson had produced Diamond's album "Beautiful Noise," and they were friends. For his part, Helm didn't see any musical connection between Diamond and The Band, and pointedly criticized Robertson's professional and personal association with him.

    It reached a point during the concert's planning stages that Robertson reportedly blew up at Helm and responded, "Don't tell me who I'm supposed to not associate with. I will associate and produce who I want to. You can go fck yourself and get the hell out of my way if you don't like who I'm associating with musically."

    That said, whenever I'm asked what my favorite Martin Scorsese film is, I'm sorely tempted to name "The Last Waltz." Filmed in 35mm at San Francisco's famed Winterland Ballroom, it stands as arguably the greatest rock concert documentary ever made, part memoir and complete masterpiece. And everyone who performed onstage / onscreen with The Band -- including Neil Diamond -- knocked it out of the park.

    For anyone seeking to buy the soundtrack to "The Last Waltz," I highly recommend the 2002 4-CD box set, which includes 16 additional songs from the concert than were not included in the film.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    RR's book has been all over NPR (none / 0) (#8)
    by Peter G on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 05:25:46 PM EST
    I heard RR bashing L.Helm, including criticizing the honesty of his book, in one of those interviews.

    Parent
    Robbie had plenty of time (none / 0) (#19)
    by jondee on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 09:45:05 PM EST
    to go after the veracity of Levon's book while Levon was still alive, so why didn't he?

    He should count his blessings; one of which is that unsung hero Garth Hudson hasn't come out with a book yet.

    Parent

    Dead men tell no tales ... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 01:12:12 AM EST
    ... or offer counter-narratives, and they can't argue in rebuttal.

    Parent
    Unless you can write a book... (none / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 09:46:43 AM EST
    with an organ, accordion, or a clavinet instead of a pen or a keyboard...I don't think Garth's memoirs will be forthcoming.

    Parent
    I have not kept up with it at all (none / 0) (#26)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 07:53:57 AM EST
    In general, conflicting memoirs like this don't urge me to believe one side over another. Everyone has their own viewpoints and motives around the same events. It is just interesting to hear them all - impossible, for me anyway, to judge from the outside who was right and who was wrong. I'm sure everyone acted like a jerk from time to time, but the music speaks for itself.

    I really enjoyed Diamond's segment of The Last Waltz, though it did take me by surprise. Nice to know the background there. Wish he had stuck with that caliber of material.

    Parent

    In Levon's book... (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 09:44:13 AM EST
    he talked about what a big spat it was over which guests would make the cut for the film, and it was suggested by Robbie and/or Scorcese that they'd have to cut Muddy Waters to leave room for Neil Diamond.

    Goes without saying, Levon wasn't having that mess...Muddy made the cut;)

    He also told of Ronnie Hawkins having a big laugh busting Levon, Richard, Rick, & Garth's balls at the film premier over Robbie got so much more camera time than the rest of The Band...particularly close-ups of Robbie singing, when The Band rarely if ever plugged Robbie's vocal mic in, because he couldn't really sing for sh*t.

    It's kinda funny Robbie is saying they packed it in in part because everybody was to into the smack except him and Garth...while the way Levon tells it, it was Robbie going all Hollywood and getting heavy into the blow holed up at Scorcese's house for days at a time with the blinds drawn.

    Parent

    In obvious retrospect, ... (none / 0) (#45)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 07:37:31 PM EST
    ... it looks like Levon Helm was right and Robbie Robertson went Hollywood on the rest of his bandmates. He's maintained a close friendship with Martin Scorsese and lives in L.A. now, and has also worked with Scorsese to score a number of his movie soundtracks, including "Goodfellas" and "The Departed."

    Parent
    Cannot listen to Trump rally (none / 0) (#11)
    by sallywally on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 07:10:39 PM EST
    They are going hysterical. He is promising everything and they are eating it up.

    It's going to be a great page (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 08:24:15 PM EST
    Authored by me?

    I authored things before Donald Trump and I thought way back then they were great. Nothing is changing for me unless someone breaks my door down for authoring my own pages.

    He went to lügenpresse again....sigh

    Mainstream Media (none / 0) (#20)
    by Ladyjustice on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 09:52:24 PM EST
    . . . is extinct.  Nightly news, morning news (entertainment really) CNN MSNBC, all dead to me now.  After watching DJT split screen for 17 months applauding himself and spewing hatred--can't take anymore.  My news now all comes from credible sources who report facts/news.  No more seeing, ad nauseum DJT's face and his fake news tweets.  They dishonor themselves.

    But you love him (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 01, 2016 at 10:02:40 PM EST
    And he loves you. He loves you so much

    Phuck...it's disgusting, but only to half of us. What the hell is going on here?

    I didn't like W Bush much. But he just made me feel like trying to get arrested in front of his house for saying noble cause bullshit. This is something completely different. This is shared illness. Maybe not being able to protest the Iraq War after our soldiers were fighting and dying before Cindy Sheehan broke that wall down was a sort of shared silent illness too.  This is awful

    Parent

    Nothing like arguing with some (none / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 10:31:52 AM EST
    d*ckw**d professor about why our institutions of higher learning don't give Nazi's a scholarly platform to make their case from.

    Feck I hate the internet

    Jon Stewart: "The American media has become (none / 0) (#44)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 04:49:25 PM EST
    Jon Stewart: The American media has become an "information-laundering scheme"

    "Stewart described the "information laundering" as the progressive surfacing of news--fake, or otherwise--from unverified sources into the mainstream. Because second-hand reporting is so common, he said, and is often done without serious vetting of sources, even relatively reputable news organizations will report on something that a blog or platform of unknown credibility has written. While these sites may provide attribution originally, another publication may omit the original source of the news in their reporting of the report. "That piece of information [on where the news came from] has now been laundered," Stewart explained--and the original news, whether or not its source was credible, has now gained more credibility, especially if it was picked up by outlets known for their high standards. This process was recently highlighted and dissected by The New York Times in a case study of how a falsity in a single tweet became viral news in a day."


    Yes, but what (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 08:41:57 PM EST
    is the solution?

    Parent
    How about an invasion and conquest of Russia? (none / 0) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 09:30:23 PM EST
    Oops, my bad. We're going to be too busy defending Taiwan from China. Thank heavens we'll have a Marine general called "Mad Dog" at the helm in the Pentagon.

    Stanley Kubrick would be so proud of us.

    Parent

    It's been pouring rain all day in Hilo. (none / 0) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 02, 2016 at 09:15:21 PM EST
    In the wee hours of this morning, it was raining so hard that the cat hopped up on the bed to cuddle, which he never does. He usually sleeps at night in his basket by the bedroom window. Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa are experiencing blizzard conditions, so when the storm passes and the clouds depart, we should have a gorgeous view of snowcapped mountains this weekend.

    My wife drove me to the office on her way to school, which proved a mistake because the internet went down in our building while I was in the midst of transmitting a proposal to my partner in Honolulu, so I had to catch a cab back home to finish the job. I've stayed home for the rest of the day, and just finished watching Hawaii beat USC in the first round of this year's NCAA Women's Volleyball Tournament.

    When The Spouse returns home in a few minutes, we're going to go out to an early dinner with Younger Daughter. She has finals this coming week, so she'll be hitting the books all weekend. She had only one more semester until graduation, but she now wants to get her certificate in secondary education so she can become a teacher like her mother, and that's another year in school.

    Such is life in paradise on a wet and blustery Friday afternoon.

    Re Kellogg and corporations (none / 0) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 03, 2016 at 03:55:30 PM EST
    in general.

    Let me make the question more topical so you have no excuse to dodge. You assert that Kellogg is bad because they are jeopardizing their bottom line and stock prices in this case. Would you consider  Kellogg good,bad or ugly for offshoring jobs, even though not doing so would jeopardize their bottom line and stock prices?

    Please show your work.

    When Kellogg does that let me know and I'll answer re Kellogg.

    In the meantime, what Kellogg is doing was not necessary and is just pure politics. So it is a needless action harming everyone just to make a few people feel oh so good that they have struck back at the evileeee Trump by attacking something that is connected to his staff and hated by the alt-Left and the Left in general.

    The public in general won't run out and buy a Kellogg product they don't like or need because of this so there is no net gain of market share. And some on the Right will just stop buying Kellogg products. Plus there is a huge loss of good will that will linger for years.

    Why? Because the whole thing has now exploded:

    The company's closely-associated foundation, the W.K. Kellogg Foundation, has provided, at a minimum, $930,000 in financial support to the anti-white hate organization operated by globalist America-hater George Soros. That could certainly make a cereal less appetizing. According to Breitbart, the evidence appears on the Kellogg Foundation's website and includes a June 1st, 2016 grant to the "International Development Exchange," which processes donations for the racist BLM agitators.

    That doesn't help them sell anything.

    Off shoring should always be discouraged even though it probably isn't illegal. It can be argued that to save the corporation part of it must be broken off and sent to a place where a profit can be made. As noted above that is not the case of Kellogg.

    With more than a bit of irony I note that taking over failing corporations, shutting down the bad parts, selling some others, etc., so that part could be saved is exactly what Romney's group did and he was savaged by the Left and their water carriers in the media.

    And now the whole thing has "exploded" (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by jondee on Sat Dec 03, 2016 at 06:14:17 PM EST
    Has it really?

    Where's the evidence for that, beyond the statements of people who call BLM "an anti-white hate organization operated by globalist America-hater George Soros" -- which is pushing the envelope for condensing the maximum amount of unhinged right-wing bs into a single sentence.

    Parent

    The question is (none / 0) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 03, 2016 at 08:03:54 PM EST
    this.

    Is it accurate?

    A fair number of politicians have misread the mood of the country, now we find business people trying to play politics.

    You would think they would know better. But, like Gollywood "stars and starlets" they have lived inside the bubble so long they have no idea of the mood of the people out side the blue pods around the big cities.

    Parent

    The fact that 65 million and counting (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Sat Dec 03, 2016 at 09:52:53 PM EST
    is a more significant number than 62 million to Kellogg's and others with a grasp of basic arithmetic, has nothing to do with anyone "misreading" anything.

    If they've misread anything, it's the degree of nastiness of people who make wild claims such as "BLM hates white people" and is operated by George Soros."

    Parent

    The question is (none / 0) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 03, 2016 at 08:07:20 PM EST
    this.

    Is it accurate?

    A fair number of politicians have misread the mood of the country, now we find business people trying to play politics.

    You would think they would know better. But, like Gollywood "stars and starlets" they have lived inside the bubble so long they have no idea of the mood of the people out side the blue pods around the big cities.

    Parent

    The answer is this (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Yman on Sat Dec 03, 2016 at 09:45:17 PM EST
    No.  It's ridiculous, rightwing smears.

    Next.

    Parent

    What would call (none / 0) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 11:39:19 AM EST
    an organization that wanted to have meetings that only whites could attend...and when denied use of public facilities moved them elsewhere??????

    I would call them "haters of people of color."

    Nashville Public Library officials have told Nashville's chapter of Black Lives Matter that meetings that welcome only people of color can't take place inside the city's libraries.

    That decision has outraged members of Black Lives Matter, who say the library canceled all future meetings the group had organized for later this month.

    But library officials say they're simply enforcing a library policy that says all meetings at their facilities must be open to the general public and news media.

    Link

    Parent

    Breitbart garbage (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Yman on Sat Dec 03, 2016 at 09:43:58 PM EST
    Repeating Breitbart smears doesn't make them credible.  BLM is not a racist, "anti-white" group and George Soros is not an "America-hater".  The fact that anyone takes these claims seriously is laughable.

    Parent
    And now the whole thing has exploded.. (none / 0) (#61)
    by jondee on Sat Dec 03, 2016 at 10:02:55 PM EST
    all over the right wing blogosphere -- like a badly backed up toilet.

    Parent
    mixed information on soros (none / 0) (#65)
    by linea on Sun Dec 04, 2016 at 06:45:32 PM EST
    very positive things:
    • reports online state that george soros supports (politically and financially) the rights of women, sex workers, and gays-lesbians.
    • wiki says he blames many of the world's problems on the failures inherent in what he characterizes as market fundamentalism.

    but there is some other information that is concerning:
     * soros was convicted of INSIDER TRADING in france which was upheld by the french supreme court.
     * he seems to oppose national democracy in favor of ersatz-federalist legislation such as that promulgated through the EU et alia.


    Parent
    That's nice you're "concerned" (none / 0) (#69)
    by Yman on Sun Dec 04, 2016 at 09:18:27 PM EST
    ... but it has absolutely nothing to do with the Breitbart smears that Jim is pushing here.  It's completely irrelevant.

    Parent
    i'm sorry? (none / 0) (#70)
    by linea on Sun Dec 04, 2016 at 09:47:55 PM EST
    Correct. Soros (none / 0) (#71)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 05:36:20 AM EST
    Is a globalist.

    Parent
    So is Trump. (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 06:32:58 AM EST
    Everybody is a "globalist" these days.

    Parent
    Lol (none / 0) (#73)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 06:44:44 AM EST
    Need say no more

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 07:03:27 AM EST
    LOL at you. How much tinfoil are you wrapping your head in these days?

    Parent
    Yes that ole (none / 0) (#81)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 02:54:58 PM EST
    Make America Great Again Globalist Trump!

    Parent
    He sure has some very cushy (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 03:04:17 PM EST
    relationships with a lot of globalists.

    And he's made alot of money off of products made in places like China and Vietnam.

    He may try to disguise his quack to fool dummies and yahoos, but he still quacks, walks, and sh*ts like a duck.

    Parent

    yes (none / 0) (#85)
    by FlJoe on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 03:17:49 PM EST
    that trump, who had his products manufactured overseas, and bought Chinese steel for his buildings(during the time of their worst market manipulations). He had plenty of chances to put his money towards American jobs, but obviously he put his profits first.


    Parent
    Depends on which day you ask him (none / 0) (#91)
    by Yman on Tue Dec 06, 2016 at 01:15:30 PM EST
    Or, if you look at what he actually does, versus him hypocritical, empty rhetoric.

    It's amazing that some people are naive enough to believe what he says.

    Parent

    I thought you wanted to talk (none / 0) (#75)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 11:21:07 AM EST
    about Russian intervention in US politics/policies?

    Cat got your tongue??

    Parent

    Not in the least (none / 0) (#89)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 07:40:15 PM EST
    What do you need help with?

    Parent
    What Yman is doing is (none / 0) (#79)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 11:41:49 AM EST
    telling you what to think.

    Parent
    Yman is doing no such thing (none / 0) (#86)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 07:20:02 PM EST
    Get your facts straight.

    Parent
    Is that a question ... (none / 0) (#88)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 07:27:50 PM EST
    ... or a statement?

    Parent
    Please be accurate (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 11:29:54 AM EST
    I haven't mentioned Breitbart in conjunction with Soros.

    What I have done is pointed out that Kellogg, and other corps, have become involved in politics. At one time this would have been consider very bad by the Left.

    In fact, one of the chief complaints against Trump is that he is a business man.

    Yet while Kellogg is good he is bad.

    That just hypocrisy. Pure and simple.

    Parent

    That's just a simple-minded analysis (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 03:17:43 PM EST
    plain and simple.

    And yes, you linked to a site that idiotically claims BLM is "operated by Soros."

    What Kellogg's is "involved in" is trying not to repel potential customers by advertising at a neofascist, white supremacist website populated by knuckle-walking troglodytes.

    No politics, just business.

    But hey, we shouldn't expect you to keep up: it's a big Fake News day, what with your ilk recently "exposing" Clinton-pizza parlour-pedophilia rings and such, and making sure the nuts you inspire have easy access to guns and ammo.

    Parent

    I'm 100% accurate (none / 0) (#87)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 07:27:10 PM EST
    Breitbart was the one pushing the smears in their feud with Kellogg, a fact mentioned in the very first sentence of the article you linked to.  The fact that you chose to repeat those baseless smears of Soros as an "America-hater" and BLM as "racist" and "anti-white" just shows what kind of person you are.

    BTW - No one has trouble with Trump being a businessman.  But silly, strawman/imaginary "hypocrisy" is your specialty, and you telling someone else to be accurate is like Rush Limbaugh telling someone to go on a diet.

    Parent

    Kelloggs has not become involved in politics. (none / 0) (#90)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Dec 06, 2016 at 08:21:53 AM EST
    They have simply gained some basic human decency. Something you, Donald Drumpf and his minions sorely lack.

    Parent
    any comments on italian referendum? (none / 0) (#66)
    by linea on Sun Dec 04, 2016 at 07:42:01 PM EST
    Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi has resigned after suffering a heavy defeat in a referendum. The No vote was supported by populist parties, and the referendum was regarded as a barometer of anti-establishment sentiment in Europe.

    Opposition leader Matteo Salvini, of the anti-immigrant Northern League, called the referendum a "victory of the people against the strong powers of three-quarters of the world."

    The result of this referendum is a striking victory for this country's many opposition parties - led in this campaign by the populist Five Star Movement. Five Star's immediate goal now will be victory in the next general election - and a rethink of Italy's relationship with the European Union.

    The referendum comes in the wake of the Brexit vote in the UK in June, and coincides with the rise of the anti-immigrant Front National in France and populist parties elsewhere. It also comes less than a month after the election of Donald Trump in the United States.



    Still have to (none / 0) (#68)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Dec 04, 2016 at 07:51:02 PM EST
    Wait and see what falls out,

    Austria chose not to align themselves with the far right in their election.

    So we just have to wait and see in Italy

    Interesting concept, In Italy they have a two week blackout period banning polling.

    Parent

    Tragedy in Oakland, CA: (none / 0) (#67)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Dec 04, 2016 at 07:49:06 PM EST
    As of this writing, there are at least 33 confirmed deaths in the Ghost Ship warehouse fire in the city's Fruitvale district.

    The fire broke out at about 11:00 p.m. PST Friday night during a concert / party / rave that was being held at the site, and it quickly blocked the warehouse's only exit, effectively trapping guests inside as it quickly swept through the building.

    This weekend's toll now surpasses that of the tragic Oakland Hills firestorm of October 1991, which killed 25, making this perhaps the single deadliest fire in city history and possibly modern California history, excluding the 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire which killed over 3,000.

    My thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of the confirmed victims and the missing. Given that only 30% of the warehouse ruins has been searched thus far, the number of dead is expected to rise.

    :(  

    Another loser available (none / 0) (#78)
    by KeysDan on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 11:40:03 AM EST
    for the Trump cabinet.  How does Pat McCrory sound to fill the oh so difficult Secretary of State position?   McCrory finally conceded the North Carolina governor's race to Democrat Roy Cooper, making McCrory the Republican in the state not to survive.  His re-election appears to have been a referendum on McCrory's support for the anti-gay and trans bathroom bill.

    That's certainly what it turned into, ... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 01:26:36 PM EST
    ... by Gov. McCrory's own choice. 12 years ago, he'd have undoubtedly been swept back into office on a wave of righteous right-wing Christianist indignation. Obviously, McCrory miscalculated as to how much the times have since changed, and rather dramatically so.

    As far as open political appeals go, "anti-gay" had an effective shelf life of about 40 years. While it still retains some potency in limited circumstances, it likely became a spent force with the right's bruising pyrrhic victory to pass Prop. 8 in California, which they couldn't sustain and hold. They went to the "anti-gay" well so quickly and often during the period between 1996 and 2010, that initially widespread public support for such efforts finally and rather abruptly dried up.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Former (one-term) wingnut (none / 0) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Mon Dec 05, 2016 at 02:59:57 PM EST
    Congressman from Florida, Allen West, was at Trump Tower for a discussion (interview) on national security matters.  West was, essentially, drummed out of the Army for misconduct (resigned, avoiding  courts- martial)-shooting a gun next to the ear of a blindfolded Iraqi policeman as part of an investigation to obtain information, aka, torture.

      General Mattis, Trump's pick for Sec DOD was one of the commanding officers who reviewed the misconduct charges against Lt. Col Allen West. Mattis wrote: "this shows a commander who has lost his moral balance or watched too many Hollywood movies."