Trump Campaign Manager: Emails are More Significant Than Child Rape Accusations

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2016
Posted on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 03:39:17 PM EST
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Kelly Ann Conway on CNBC this morning (video here, at 2'10" in) was asked about the child rape civil lawsuit pending against Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein in the Southern District of New York. (Case No. 16-cv-07673-RA, Doe v. Trump et al.) The case is set for a scheduling conference on December 16. (Order here.) Trump has not yet been served with the lawsuit, which was amended on Sept 30, added a claim of defamation and libel to the rape allegations and an additional witness affidavit. Conway's bizarre response:

“Oh, come on,” Conway gasped. “That you would analogize the two. Give me a break.”...“That’s such a ridiculous conflation,” Conway remarked. “To just throw the rape word in there when we’ve got 650,000 emails based on an active investigation of Huma Abedin’s pedophilia husband because he’s sexting pictures of himself to some 15-year-old girl in North Carolina, I think that’s just ridiculous.”

So according to Conway, Weiner sexting and Huma's emails are a more serious matter than a forcible rape claim by a then 13 year old girl brought in federal court, where she is represented by two lawyers and her complaint is supported by two witness affidavits, one of whom claims to be an eyewitness to the rape and the other says she was told about it at the time.

This is not about whether the claims are true -- of course, allegations in a civil lawsuit, just like allegations in an Indictment, are not proof. They are mere allegations. Trump is entitled to the presumption of innocence, even on civil allegations. Clearly he should not be presumed guilty. [More...]

But the allegations against Trump in this lawsuit are far more serious than the allegations against Weiner or his wife, pertaining to sexting or emails. For Conway to say otherwise is nothing short of bizarre, and her out of hand dismissal of the suit's potential import can be viewed as a reflection of the culture at the Trump campaign.

The mainstream media has given Trump a pass on mentioning this lawsuit. The accuser filed two witness affidavits in support of her request for a restraining order. One is by a childhood friend who says she was told about the alleged rape shortly after it happened. The other is by a woman who says she was an eyewitness to the alleged rape (she states she worked for Epstein for 10 years, from 1990 to 2000, and during the summer of 1994, she hired the 13 year old to work Epstein's parties at the NY city mansion then owned by Leslie Wexner and used by Epstein. Epstein later became the owner.) The accuser and her eyewitness say Trump attended four parties at the mansion that summer.

The Complaint asserts that the Statute of Limitations doesn't apply. I won't go into the reasons given as I don't want to repeat the specifics of the woman's allegations. But the fact that there is a pending civil lawsuit against Trump for forcible rape of a 13 year old and his campaign manager deems it a less serious matter than the sexting/email controversy is newsworthy.

The federal Judge presiding over the case (who is the sister of legal commentator and online media company owner Dan Abrams) scheduled an initial court conference for December 16. By December 9, the parties are directed to submit a "proposed case management plan and scheduling order."

The 13 year old now has two lawyers, one of whom is a very well respected criminal attorney, L. Cheney Mason of Florida (who many will remember from his work on the Casey Anthony case.)

Has any presidential candidate in history had as many sexual misconduct allegations, true or not, made against him while running for President?

That Trump's campaign manager thinks Weiner's sexting or Huma's emails are more serious allegations than those brought against Trump means she is just like her boss -- she'll say anything to win. Her credibility has sunk below zero in my view.

Please do not repeat the plaintiff's allegations. This post is not about their truth or falsity. It's about the Trump Campaign Manager's claim the matter is not serious.

Question: Will Donald Trump release his calendar for the summer of 1994?

< Comey Gets a Warrant, But it Costs Him His Reputation | Variety's First Endorsement: Hillary Clinton >

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Trump Campaign Manager: Emails are More Significant Than Child Rape Accusations | 94 comments (94 topical)

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People are so gullible (5.00 / 2) (#21)
by pitachips on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 09:35:19 PM EST

The idea that Trump created some sort of political movement is pure BS. Trump is the Tea Party candidate, no more no less. Pick any other tea party Neanderthal, for instance Steve King, who happens to hate Mexicans openly and hate African Africans behind closed doors, and the polls would probably be the same. People just love to jump on the bandwagon and it's a more interesting story to couch this in terms of some new political dynamic. Trump is a retread and much like Goldwater he will end up going down in flames.

I can't wait for this election to be over.

Ted Cruz (none / 0) (#34)
by The Addams Family on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 02:41:47 AM EST

was the Tea Party candidate

Cruz was one of the original Tea Partiers, & that purist back-bencher zealotry is one reason why he is so despised by what the Tea Party crowd calls the GOPe (GOP establishment)

it's true that many in the Tea Party have now come under Trump's banner, but they distrust what they regard as his "liberal" instincts

as bad as Trump is, i find Cruz truly scary


There is no Tea Party candidate (none / 0) (#44)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 10:45:14 AM EST

and there is no Tea Party. I say this as, most likely, the only TL commentator who sometimes attends meetings.

There are various groups with various variations of political philosophy who gather together from time to time to discuss politics and recommend various politicians.

They have all the impact of a summer breeze on a national basis. They do serve as a handy whipping post for the chattering class. I.e. The claim that Trump was created by the Tea Party. If there were as many people attending meetings as there were people voting for Trump we would know about it.

Like many political organizations the individual groups can have an impact on local elections.


: Gee Jim (none / 0) (#48)
by jondee on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 11:12:26 AM EST

I could have sworn you stated awhile back here that Cruz was the candidate of "the Tea Party"; "various groups" and all..

Comments with name-calling (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 01:37:03 AM EST

and potentially libelous characterizations of Trump stated as fact have been deleted.

You may not call anyone a racist on this site.

Oh Silly Season... (5.00 / 2) (#67)
by kdog on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 02:14:07 PM EST

"Your candidate f*cked a chicken!"

"How can you say my candidate f*cked a chicken while your candidate was f*cking a goat!"

"A goat? Who can talk about goats while your candidate was shaving Putin's back!"

"Putin! How dare you bring up Putin when your candidate was dry cleaning Osama's turban before Putin even had back hair!!!"

WTF (5.00 / 1) (#78)
by FlJoe on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 08:33:16 PM EST

The FBI lays down another turd

An FBI Twitter account that had been dormant for over a year puzzled political observers on Tuesday by sending out a tweet linking to records from a long-closed case involving what was then known as the William J. Clinton Foundation......... Yet the timing of the tweet struck many as odd, since the FBI Records Vault Twitter account had sent no messages from Oct. 8, 2015-Oct. 30, 2016. Suddenly, on Sunday, a flood of new tweets went out with links to records released over the course of 2016, including FBI files on Donald Trump's father, Fred, and retired CIA director David Petraeus.

The FBI is obviously out of control top to bottom.

The FBI is a monstrous (5.00 / 1) (#81)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 09:53:23 PM EST

mess. If that account had been dormant who led people to the account? Seems like that could be traced.


For those people who are still willing ... (none / 0) (#86)
by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 10:23:43 PM EST

... to give the FBI the benefit of the doubt here (for which you can count me out), the official explanation from the Hoover Bldg. is that this document dump was the result of a federal court order to comply with a FOIA request.

Okay, that's entirely plausible -- but honestly, did this information, long held under wraps for years and years, really need to see the light of day only one week before Election Day?

For low-information voters, this is the type of salacious stuff which can easily sway them one way or another. Further, Bill Clinton is not on the ballot, and Fred Trump is dead. Delaying its release by one week would not have hurt anyone. Doing so now in the midst of a contentious presidential election perhaps does cause harm.

It was irresponsible.

Aloha.


The FBI (none / 0) (#89)
by TrevorBolder on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 05:52:18 AM EST

Revolt, which has been festering for months, and I have mentioned often (and scoffed at, lol) is a direct result of FBI agents determining that the Justice Department has its thumb on the scale.
They deprived the FBI of its best investigative tool (why?), the grand jury. The agents feel a stand down order was placed, and the agents are not happy.
The original lead agent retired in the middle of this investigation, saying it was going sideways. (FBI speak for designed to fail)
Then the #2 guy in the FBI, his wife gets $675k for a political campaign from Terry McCauliffe? And he was in charge of this investigation? Not good optics when agents already feel that this was a sideways investigation.
It has been suggested that Comey came out with his statement that the case would be looking at new e mails, because if he didn't, there would be leaks, which might be coming anyway.
This is why all this should have been handled by a Special Prosecutor, with no Justice Department involvement.
And, lol, to top it off, the Justice Department release that they are assigning a top official to help work this case..well WIKI shows Peter Kadzik and Podesta are very well acquainted and
connected. And Kadziks son sent Podesta an e mail requesting a job with the Clinton campaign.
And this is the guy at Justice you want to join this investigation?
Yea, if you are John Podesta, you couldn't have asked for a better Justice Department attorney.
I don't think the FBI agents on the case share that feeling though, and it doesn't pass the smell test for the general public as well


Trevor (5.00 / 1) (#90)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 05:58:23 AM EST

I know you are a Putin troll but no, it was not about the "thumb on the scale" so much as the rogue FBI agents who you think should be able to do whatever they want to do. They wanted an investigation based on a conspiracy theory book. You really want the FBI to be chasing down conspiracy theories? Well, I can answer that. The GOP spent years chasing down conspiracy theories named Whitewater.

What the FBI wants to do is positively Nixonian. The rogue agents want the power to punish political enemies. There needs to be a special prosecutor appointed to see what's going on in the FBI.


Actually (none / 0) (#91)
by TrevorBolder on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 06:06:43 AM EST

Everything you say about the FBI

Is exactly what they say about the Justice Department

Which is why this needed a special investigation

To avoid this infighting


: A special (5.00 / 1) (#93)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 06:36:46 AM EST

prosecutor should be hired to look into the FBI. It looks like an organization that become Nixonian. There are career people in the FBI who are not upset at the DOJ and the infighting in the FBI can be directly attributed to Comey. There has been no problems at DOJ where they all seem to agree. The problem is the FBI where you have two opposing factions and a complete disaster.
Also the infiltration of the GOP and the FBI by Putin. That's a very serious problem. We can't have foreign agents attempting to alter our election.

: You don't speak for the FBI (5.00 / 1) (#95)
by Yman on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 08:07:05 AM EST

The way to avoid the infighting is to put the partisan agents in their place, not cave to wingers and their tinfoil CTs.

But...Politics!! (5.00 / 1) (#104)
by Repack Rider on Thu Nov 03, 2016 at 11:41:53 AM EST

Then the #2 guy in the FBI, his wife gets $675k for a political campaign from Terry McCauliffe? And he was in charge of this investigation?

How unusual is it for Democratic politicians to support other Democrats? It's pretty much the way things always work in politics. This just in, Republicans do it too Both sides!

And of course the contribution took place BEFORE the investigation, so how would McCauliffe have known he was paying a "bribe?"

Mr. Comey is going to be asked for his resignation about an hour after Ms. Clinton is sworn in. He has disgraced his agency in exactly the same way Jedgar did.


You are not the FBI (none / 0) (#94)
by Yman on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 08:04:21 AM EST

You don't speak for the FBI. You don't know what the "FBI" thinks, because the FBI is an institution made up of thousands of employees, not just a few, fellow wingers.


Trevor's email arguments: A video summary. (none / 0) (#100)
by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 02:21:22 PM EST

LINK.


To me this just (none / 0) (#1)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 03:54:53 PM EST

shows how stupid Kellyanne is and how corrupt she is. The GOP has had a lot of pedophiles so maybe that's normal to her.

A careless reader of the Conway (none / 0) (#2)
by Mr Natural on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 04:37:55 PM EST

passage might think there were 650,000 emails about underage girls. Could that have been his intention? Yes.

A lot of commenters want to believe that the opposition is stupid and that "we" are somehow innately superior or more intelligent. They're not. We're not. Some of the people we revile here are brilliant, if carnivores.

The only reason the GOP headliners and spokespeople look so hapless and ineffectual is because they've got nothing to work with. Trump's what he is and that's all they've got.

Trump and co have waged an effective campaign (none / 0) (#4)
by McBain on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 04:46:16 PM EST

Big turnouts at rallies combined with their use of social media have gotten him this far. You don't have to like the guy to respect what he (they) have accomplished. It's amazing that a non politician has a legitimate chance of being out next president.


any Tea Party endorsed candidate would (5.00 / 2) (#25)
by pitachips on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 12:22:31 AM EST

have just as much of a chance to win. If the media dug into his past when he first announced like they are today, he probably wouldn't even be the nominee.

As much as he and his supporters love to rant against the media, it is the media who put him where he is today.


Content matters (none / 0) (#5)
by MKS on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 04:56:33 PM EST

I cannot and do not respect anything about Trump.

There are any number of people who have been "effective" at gaining power. Not all need to be respected.


Respecting the accomplishments (none / 0) (#38)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 10:08:47 AM EST

is not respecting the individual.

i.e. I do not respect Trump. I do respect his business and political accomplishments.


If you respect ... (none / 0) (#40)
by Yman on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 10:25:39 AM EST

... Trump'stuff "business accomplishments", then you should probably get your information from somewhere other than his website.


True Yman and, (none / 0) (#42)
by fishcamp on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 10:34:08 AM EST

I wonder which political accomplishments jim worships, oops I mean respects, since Trump has never been a politician nor held any office.


Actually, fishcamp (5.00 / 1) (#49)
by Mr Natural on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 11:23:44 AM EST

Property developers 'influence' the state and local pols who control development policy planning groups, commissions, development authorities, water and sewer authorities, road commissions, any entity that can scam a taxpayer-screwing TIF into existence, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Until now, Trump's done his politicking in the dark. He admitted as much in one of his early RNC debates. Somebody criticized him for donating to Democratic candidates, including then New York Senator Clinton. His response was that he always got his money's worth.


Trump is a mediocre (5.00 / 1) (#57)
by MKS on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 12:52:03 PM EST

real estate developer. They are a dime a dozen around here. He is actually less talented than the ones I have seen. Too prone to rash action, not as smooth, not as bright.....

He hasn't actually built all that much in the last few years. He makes most of his money by selling the rights to post his name on other people's buildings....


: Romeny nailed it (5.00 / 1) (#58)
by MKS on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 12:54:16 PM EST

Trump is a con.

Exactly (none / 0) (#53)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 12:44:11 PM EST

He's admitted several times that he has "contributed" to politicians of both parties, said nice things about them, etc., etc. He claims, rightfully so, to understand how the system is played and has played it.

That makes him qualified to fix.

Set a thief to catch a thief is an old old maxim.


Trump has shown no (5.00 / 3) (#54)
by MKS on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 12:48:43 PM EST

inclination in his life ever to serve a cause greater than his own.

There is no rational basis for assuming he would serve anything other than his own self interest--which is to be in the spotlight.


I don't disagree (none / 0) (#66)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 01:53:10 PM EST

and fixing things would clearly put him in the spotlight.


He would fix nothing (none / 0) (#70)
by MKS on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 04:13:20 PM EST

His policies are same ol, same ol GOP. He has no interest in policy; hence, his offer for Kasich as VP to be responsible for foreign policy and domestic policy.

He is a fraud.


Let me see (none / 0) (#71)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 04:23:01 PM EST

Stopping influx of Muslim refugees until we can properly be them....Republican policy?

Building a wall and closing the border, cutting off federal dollars to sanctuary cities...jailing felons for multiple reentries...

Renegotiating unfair trade agreements...see NAFTA

Sanctions placed in companies that fire and flee and then try to export to US....

Making our supposed allies pay their fair share for defense....

These are Republican policies??

Who knew????

If they had been Marco or Jeb would be the candidate,


And if Ted or Marco or Jeb or Ben (5.00 / 1) (#73)
by jondee on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 04:43:21 PM EST

had gotten the nomination, you'd be trying to make all their stated positions sound like the long awaited answer to all of our hopes and prayers..

You're very accommodating that way.


: Until we can properly be them.. (none / 0) (#74)
by jondee on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 04:48:11 PM EST

you mean, as in, "there, but for the grace of God, go I"?

Trump shows (none / 0) (#75)
by MKS on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 04:49:33 PM EST

that the true motivation of GOP voters is cultural. They wanted someone who was not politically correct and would stick it to minorities and immigrants.


No, that makes him a hypocrite (5.00 / 1) (#60)
by Yman on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 12:55:08 PM EST

But you should tell that to the thousands of subcontractors and employees that he screwed on their contracts.


Maybe (none / 0) (#59)
by FlJoe on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 12:54:19 PM EST

you can send a thief to catch a thief, but only the biggest of fools would hand the keys to the vault to a thief. Of course being a criminal gives you some insight into the criminal mind but it also proves that you have a criminal mindset.


An older maxim is never trust a thief (none / 0) (#84)
by jondee on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 10:09:48 PM EST

not only because he's a thief, but because he's a liar.


So Trump gave a ... (none / 0) (#69)
by Yman on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 03:10:27 PM EST

... self-serving response to explain his hypocrisy?

yawn.


Agreed Mr. Natty, (none / 0) (#92)
by fishcamp on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 06:25:11 AM EST

however our income taxes influence all you mentioned. Since the Donald does not pay income taxes he's not helping our economy the way we do. I stand by my statement, which translates into him not being qualified to become the President.


You could have asked me (none / 0) (#61)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 12:56:26 PM EST

if you wanted an answer.. anyway...

Getting a million or so and turning it into billions is an accomplishment worthy of respect... Same as Ted Turner.. I also respect the accomplishments of Steve Jobs but from all I've read I would not like or respect the person.

I'd say winning the Repub nomination is an accomplishment worthy of respect. I also respect Hillary's getting the Demos nod. There are other politicians but I don't want to wander.

Too many people confuse respect with worship/like. Two different things.


: "A million dollars or so ..." (5.00 / 2) (#68)
by Yman on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 03:06:37 PM EST

That debunked myth again? Try getting your information from somewhere other than Trump's website. It's full of those laughable, false claims.
He//, he'd have done much better putting his money in a mutual fund.
The Real Reason Donald Is So Rich.

: you are wandering (none / 0) (#82)
by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 09:57:48 PM EST

off topic and repeating yourself. please stop.

I disagree (none / 0) (#6)
by TrevorBolder on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 04:57:04 PM EST

The moment is all too ripe for a non politician.

Elites from both parties have run this country for the past 16 years.
Anyone like the results.

This years primaries show the dissatisfaction. The Bernistas feel they had a nomination taken from them, maybe, maybe not, but a thumb was definitely on the scale. With another candidate in the race (Biden), the Bern may well have been the next President.
The Republican primary voter showed their disregard for politicians and politics as usual. The number 2 in the primary race was anti establishment Ted Cruz.
Brexit- A middle finger to the elite

Bloomberg must be shaking his head, Cuban as well.

Oh no, the time is ripe for a non politician, it is our misfortune that The Donald was the only one to see it, and capitalize on his huge name recognition and too many primary opponents to become the nominee.


For me, it's refreshing to have (1.00 / 1) (#8)
by McBain on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 05:06:29 PM EST

someone running for president who isn't politically correct. Many have claimed to be offended by his words, I think most are just saying that, but at least his words seem like his own.

I don't buy the man of the people routine. When it comes to his opinion of the working class I bet he's just as elite as Obama, Bush or the Clintons.


D'oh! You're right. Silly me. (none / 0) (#36)
by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 03:45:45 AM EST

McBain: "For me, it's refreshing to have someone running for president who isn't politically correct. Many have claimed to be offended by his words, I think most are just saying that, but at least his words seem like his own."

I have a Mexican-American wife and Latino daughters, and my parents-in-law are first generation migras. Why should I be upset when Trump calls Mexicans rapists and drug dealers, impugns the integrity of a federal judge because he's of Mexican heritage, rages about "anchor babies," or claims the Mexico is full of "bad hombres"?

After all, Trump is just saying what you're thinking, right? As you noted, you find that lack of political correctness "refreshing." We just need to stop being so sensitive to white people's opinions, especially when they're speaking out about tyranny and freedom.

Yep. How refreshing.


Try reading (none / 0) (#39)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 10:18:34 AM EST

Polifact.

And allow me to state one of my dislikes.

I don't like hyphenated words describing Americans.

You either are, or are not, and American.

You and your family are. You don't need to explain it to make false claims re Trump.


You should heed your own ... (5.00 / 1) (#41)
by Yman on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 10:34:06 AM EST

... advice. The only reason Politifact rated it false was because Trump didn't say "all" Mexicans, as Kaine said. Then again, Donald didn't say Trump said "all" Mexicans.

Oops!

BTW - Your sudden appreciation for Politifact is amusing.


So your defense (none / 0) (#45)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 10:49:17 AM EST

is that we should not be allowed to criticize individuals of a group.

Okie Dokie


No, my point is that ... (5.00 / 1) (#47)
by Yman on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 11:06:02 AM EST

... your link, which you think disproves Donald's statement, does not.

Your comprehension of my very clear statement is as poor as your comprehension of Donald's. Unless, of course ...

... it's intentional.


"Okie Dokie" (5.00 / 1) (#52)
by Peter G on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 12:19:10 PM EST

is the tell.


: Indeed. Our his favorite variant ... (none / 0) (#56)
by Yman on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 12:51:49 PM EST

... "So you're saying ...", followed by a strawman argument.

Sorry, but you don't get to dictate to others ... (5.00 / 1) (#63)
by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 01:00:59 PM EST

JimakaPPJ: "I don't like hyphenated words describing Americans. You either are, or are not, and American."

... how they may or may not identify or describe themselves to others, ESPECIALLY when you're a white guy who's long prided himself on identity politics, and never misses an opportunity to diminish the humanity of people who don't look and act like you.

Given that you refuse to believe claims about Trump's bigoted statements despite the ample audiovisual evidence to the contrary, you have no credibility on the subject of racial and ethnic issues.

My wife and her family identify as Mexican-American. Deal with it.


Yeah, that was pretty (5.00 / 1) (#65)
by MKS on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 01:23:38 PM EST

"nervy" to lecture others on how they should described their own background.


Nervy and futile.. (none / 0) (#76)
by jondee on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 07:03:11 PM EST

But, as William F Buckley said, conservatives are people who stand athwart history shouting "stop!"

Ya gotta love these people who claim to value the melting pot, national unity, and America's unique legacy and then accuse the President of being a foreign-born, secret-muslim, terrorist sympathizer.


: Our diversity should define us w/o dividing us. (none / 0) (#77)
by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 08:03:20 PM EST

Any white persons who believe otherwise should suffer the punishment of a nonstop dosage of "Rick Rolls" on their daily commutes to and from work, and the indignity of having taco truck vendors publicly refuse them service during their lunch breaks, pointing them instead toward the nearest McDonald's.
For the rest of us, it's time to let our freak flags fly.

I don't like (none / 0) (#62)
by MKS on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 01:00:25 PM EST

to airbrush away someone's ethnicity and heritage.

If one likes and is not threatened by diversity, African Americans, Latino Americans and other Americans are all Americans, but we are celebrating and respecting their ethnic and cultural background. I don't want that airbrushed away because white America feels threatened.


Allow me to state (none / 0) (#88)
by jondee on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 12:25:05 AM EST

that I doubt you really care what people call themselves, as long as they vote Republican.

99.9% of your problem with so many "hyphenateds" is that they tend not to.


lol; 'elites' have run this country (none / 0) (#7)
by Mr Natural on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 05:05:27 PM EST

since its inception.


: Correct (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by TrevorBolder on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 05:09:28 PM EST

And on occasion, there have been insurrections!!!
I have it from a reputable source that Andrew Jacksons party at the White House after his election was a blast.
So much so he had to sneak out the back
http://tinyurl.com/zv794zs

The party was so big that the courageous, battle-tested President Jackson fled the scene (out a back door or through a window) as a huge crowd drank heavily, destroyed furniture and china, and even ground cheese into the carpets with their boots on the White House carpet.
Only the promise of more free liquor drew the rabble out of the executive mansion.
That's the popular myth surrounding the open house at the White House on that inauguration day in 1829, and while key parts seem true (based on contemporary accounts), the "wildness" part could be exaggerated.

i dont see how ted cruz (none / 0) (#13)
by linea on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 07:02:31 PM EST

is anti-establisment. he's just a more extreem religious social conservative (anti gay and anti women): allow companies to deny covering birth control, opposes equal pay, overturn scotus gay marriage, overturn scotus choice, opposes pride parades.


: Oh no (none / 0) (#14)
by TrevorBolder on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 07:10:18 PM EST

The establishment Republicans despise him. He pissed all of them off.
They may have certain policies in common,
But he doesn't play nice with others

: this thread is about Trump (none / 0) (#29)
by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 01:32:17 AM EST

please stay on topic

The only (none / 0) (#15)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 07:18:00 PM EST

Bernistas that feel they had a primary taken away from them are the ones that cannot count or don't even understand how primaries work. This was not a close primary.

Republicans always love to push Bernie because they know they could defeat him. If they created a perfect candidate to run against that would be Bernie. It's another reason they hate Hillary. They know she's tough and will fight back whereas Bernie more or less would start to whine that it wasn't fair and would lose and call it a moral victory while the GOP went on to destroy everything.

You are confusing anti-establishment with nihilists. There were a good many nihilists this time who are now all in the Trump camp. They think that everything is so bad the country just needs to be blown up and start over again. Of course all those people think they are going to end up being on the top of the heap after the glorious revolution.


: it is my sense that (none / 0) (#19)
by linea on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 08:46:59 PM EST

bernie sanders would have beaten trump. i see no realistic hypothetical other than a trump loss. bernie's policies would have directly benefitted me and my friends. but you may rest in the knowledge that all my bernie friends are all selecting hillary and mailing in their ballots.
also, i do not believe "nihilist" is the correct word for what you are describimg.

Trump was the only one to see this ripe moment? (none / 0) (#20)
by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 09:14:06 PM EST

Really?

Cuz the day he started the birther movement BTD was posting here that the short fingered vulgarian was going to run for President.

I don't think Donald Trump is particularly enlightened in any fashion that doesn't involve rabid fomenting red meat.


Conway's use of the descriptor, pedophilia (none / 0) (#3)
by Mr Natural on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 04:44:52 PM EST

vis a vis Weiner's correspondence is also deliberate. It is an extremely hot button word. If a more potentially, personally destructive smear exists I am unaware of it.

I don't have video documentation (5.00 / 3) (#17)
by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 07:29:07 PM EST

Of Weiner threatening to date 10 yr olds.

Jusssss sayin


: "jusssss sayin" what? (none / 0) (#35)
by Mr Natural on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 03:45:36 AM EST

Conway is a republican flak attempting to tar Clinton with Weiner's "brush."
Your post is a non sequitur.

Lets just say (none / 0) (#18)
by TrevorBolder on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 08:39:55 PM EST

He is NOT part of the Republican establishment

His methodology and temperament is not aligned with theirs

Lol (none / 0) (#23)
by TrevorBolder on Mon Oct 31, 2016 at 09:47:54 PM EST

I have no inclination to like or support Ted Cruz.
His views are extreme and not open to compromise.

He makes establishment Republicans look soft and cuddly.

And expressing your beliefs, and how they differ from one another is not arguing, I would prefer to call it a discussion.

More open discussion is a good thing

: trevor (none / 0) (#32)
by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 01:38:58 AM EST

I'm not sure what you are talking about with "open discussion" but this is not an open thread. Please stick to the topic and it is not Ted Cruz

i dont understand (none / 0) (#28)
by linea on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 01:18:27 AM EST

why does there need to be an "and?" it's how i feel.

: How is you you still don't understand (none / 0) (#30)
by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 01:36:01 AM EST

you cannot impute guilt to people on this site? Take your opinions about the veracity of the claims elsewhere. And your comment about what Trump has admitted to has been deleted. He did not admit to all the things you wrote.
Our comment rules are not a suggestion, they are mandatory.

: linea, you read a story on Snopes (none / 0) (#33)
by The Addams Family on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 02:25:57 AM EST

your sensibility tells you that every bit of the story is true, & now you are offended
but the facts behind the story you read on Snopes have nothing to do with your sensibility
the facts behind the story you read on Snopes will be determined through legal proceedings
Snopes didn't give you the facts
Snopes gave you a writer's story about what someone else claims are the facts
so what you told us is that you're offended by your own imaginative response to that writer's story
i wonder if you see that

Since reseachers have shown FACTUALLY... (none / 0) (#37)
by Dadler on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 09:52:09 AM EST

...that we are no longer a functioning democracy, but an oligarchy, I find it depressing that the discussions about this election assume we actually live in a democracy. Whomever wins, and it will assuredly be Hillary, the permanent war/corporate state will continue unhindered. UNLESS...safe comfortable whities like myself, Jeralyn, others, take to the streets and are willing to die at home for freedom justice. Not sure I have the guts to do that, or that J does, or any of us. Hope so, cuz any sort of future depends on it. And thanks TL, Tent, whomever it was who deleted my last comment on Tent's thread. I said nothing offense, at all. I've donated a lot of money to this site, so if you're going to delete a comment of mine, don't be cowardly about it, say why. Peace to all.

That's a silly claim (none / 0) (#43)
by Yman on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 10:41:07 AM EST

The claim that we live in an oligarchy is only someone's opinion/personal conclusion. It is not a fact.


That's your opinion. (none / 0) (#50)
by Mr Natural on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 11:27:04 AM EST

We have oligarchal elements in our country. (5.00 / 1) (#64)
by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 01:16:51 PM EST

That doesn't necessarily mean or follow we currently live in an oligarchy, although that's also not to say that we can't become one again. This country was very much an oligarchy in the second half of the 19th century and early 20th century, but that pretty much ended with rise of the trust-busting and labor movements.

But afterward, elements still definitely existed in certain sections of our nation. Hawaii was a de facto white Republican oligarchy, and a rather brutal and thuggish one at that, during the period between the armed overthrow of Queen Liliuokalani's government in 1893 until the Democratic Party's "Revolution of 1954."

That's why we have to guard against its resurgence.


: Labor movements and trust-busting (none / 0) (#102)
by jondee on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 03:44:48 PM EST

an idea whose time has come. Again.
Is there any question about that? At all?
Oligarchal tendencies and conflicting class interests need checks and balances just as the branches of government need checks and balances.

Think so? (none / 0) (#55)
by Yman on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 12:49:34 PM EST

Prove that it's a fact that we live in am oligarchy.


Do you disagree (none / 0) (#98)
by NYShooter on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 02:16:38 PM EST

with the dictionary definition for, "oligarchy?"

"a small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution?

To be more accurate, I would have preferred, "de facto" control............


: I disagree with ... (none / 0) (#101)
by Yman on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 03:22:05 PM EST

... it's application to our form of government. Although, one could argue that such a broad definition would apply to literally any government on this planet, depending on your definition of "small" and "control". But that would be their opinion, not a fact.

Finally the news media is even mentioning the (none / 0) (#51)
by ruffian on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 12:09:06 PM EST

Trump rape case? Glad Conway has to be put on the spot to make her ridiculous claims. I wish IO thought we would see less of her after the election, but she is not going to relinquish her renewed role as anti-Clinton talking head easily. some ghosts of the 90's are hard to vanquish.

It appears Clinton has more ties to Epstein (1.00 / 1) (#79)
by leftwig on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 09:31:18 PM EST

than Trump.


"More ties" - heh (none / 0) (#80)
by Yman on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 09:49:44 PM EST

Not remotely comparable to the kind of ties alleged in the lawsuit discussing.

But nice try.


not even an allegation (none / 0) (#83)
by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 10:02:45 PM EST

has surfaced of inappropriate conduct by Clinton with any female at Epstein's.


What do you consider to be (none / 0) (#96)
by leftwig on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 10:25:00 AM EST

"inappropriate"?


Your question, perhaps? (none / 0) (#97)
by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 02:10:40 PM EST

I would suggest that you take a hint from your host's previous comment, and not press her buttons. While she has a high level of tolerance for dissenting opinions, she tends to not suffer for very long those persons who insist upon trafficking in baseless innuendo, unsubstantiated rumors and personal smears.


or sparkling purity ponies (none / 0) (#99)
by jondee on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 02:20:19 PM EST

unless they're stampeding through the crowd at a Pink Floyd concert.


: I'd think that sparkling purity ponies ... (none / 0) (#103)
by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 02, 2016 at 04:55:07 PM EST

... would tend to find Pink Floyd entirely too existential and cynical for their tastes and comfort. We're far more likely to see them in the music and film section at one of the few remaining Barnes & Noble stores left in the country, searching for a Melanie Safka retrospective CD / DVD.
(My humble apologies to Melanie, who's actually way cool.)

Half of Wall Street (none / 0) (#85)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 10:14:22 PM EST

has the same "ties" as Clinton does. And like Jeralyn says there are no allegations against Clinton nor any other person except Trump.


: Well, there *were* allegations against others (none / 0) (#87)
by Peter G on Tue Nov 01, 2016 at 11:10:03 PM EST

but those allegations are no more.