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Thursday Night Open Thread

We've got torrential downpours happening. It's a good night to stay in. Tomato soup and a tuna sandwich sounds about right.

I don't watch basketball, but I see the NBA finals are on.

On June 29, Jon bon Jovi and his wife will host a fundraiser in New Jersey for Hillary Clinton. He'll also perform. Tickets are $1,000 and $2,700. [More...]

For $2,700, you could also fly to Shanghai in September and see Bon Jovi. It will be the band's first performance in China.

I still wish the Stones had included Denver in their current tour. Is anyone buying the just re-released Sticky Fingers? I might, just to have two different versions of Dead Flowers. You can also hear it free on You Tube. Unlike some artists, the Stones (and Bon Jovi) are very generous with their copyrights and have huge libraries of their videos for free. Long Live the Rolling Stones.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    I am so sore (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 11, 2015 at 09:05:18 PM EST
    i decided to take a tap dancing class.  Oh my god.

    I thought it would get me off the couch but it has confined me to it.

    I remember reading that Steve Martin said when working on the movie Pennies from Heaven that learning to tap dance at 35 was like being hit by a truck every day.

    Oh baby.  Try it at 65.

    Take a walk (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by nycstray on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 10:33:54 AM EST
    and do other small/easy active things to warm/loosen up your muscles. Warm baths with epsom salt also.

    Parent
    65 is the time for Tai Chi, they say (none / 0) (#84)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 02:23:40 PM EST
    Just saying the words (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 05:22:54 PM EST
    actually thinking the words makes my hamstrings hurt.

    Parent
    I recommend... (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by desertswine on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:50:51 PM EST
    Advils and Drambuie.  

    Parent
    My recommendation is the three "V's" (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 09:00:54 PM EST
    Vodka, Valium, and vicodins.

    Parent
    Check with your local Y (none / 0) (#151)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 09:20:39 PM EST
    And see if they have various water exercise classes in their pool.
    The Y's around here have both water aerobics classes of various intensities and water classes designed for seniors and people with arthritis.
    Or, just get in there and swim laps.  Exercising in the water is much easier on your joints.


    Parent
    Maybe not criminal (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by ragebot on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:02:59 AM EST
    but you could get an argument from some folks that the current trade deal mess is criminal.  As most of you know I am not a Bernie Sanders fan, but when I see Sanders and Jeff Sessions both saying longly and loudly that Obamatrade should not be passed I have to raise my eyebrows.

    Yesterday I saw Sanders bashing Hillary for her deafening silence on the topic.  Ryan seemed to be channeling Pelosi with his comment that we would know what was in Obamatrade once it was passed.

    Maybe it would be a good idea to limit any legislation to something like a maximum of 25 pages in length.  Sure would make things easier to understand.

    Saw a scary bit yesterday (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:05:54 AM EST
    a out the origin labeling of meat that TTP could bring.

    Like unlabeled chicken from China.  

    Parent

    You should be worried about it. (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:02:58 PM EST
    You will recall, some years ago, the imported Chinese dog food scandal from a few years ago, that sickened and killed some dogs in this country.  And the melamine-tainted Chinese infant formula (although that was formula sold in China) that killed a few infants over there, and sickened thousands.
    They have extremely lax safety standards.
    If you want to feel warmer and fuzzier (snark), read this.

    Parent
    Idiot teacher fired over Facebook (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:58:49 AM EST
    comments about McKinney incident.

    Karen Fitzgibbons, an elementary school teacher in the Frenship Independent School District, wrote on Facebook that she did not think Casebolt needed to resign after a video showed him slamming a black 15-year-old girl to the ground and pointing a gun at teenagers at a community pool in McKinney, Texas, according to the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal.

    She wrote that "the blacks are the ones causing the problems and this `racial tension.' I guess that's what happens when you flunk out of school and have no education," according to the Avalanche-Journal.

    "I'm almost to the point of wanting them all segregated on one side of town so they can hurt each other and leave the innocent people alone," she continued. "Maybe the 50s and 60s were really on to something. Now, let the bashing of my true and honest opinion begin....GO! #imnotracist #imsickofthemcausingtrouble #itwasatagedcommunity."

    Frenship ISD announced in a Thursday statement that the district began the process of firing Fitzgibbons over the Facebook post, according to Everything Lubbock.

    "Frenship ISD is deeply disappointed in the thoughtlessness conveyed by this employee's post. We find these statements to be extremely offensive, insensitive, and disrespectful to our Frenship community and citizens everywhere. These comments in no way represent the educational environment we have created for our students," the statement reads. "The employee whose account is responsible for the post will be relieved of her teaching duties at Frenship ISD."

    Fitzgibbons apologized on Wednesday and deleted the post from her Facebook page.

    "I apologized to the appropriate people," she told the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, adding that the post "was not directed at any one person or group."



    Have to Love that Apology... (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 10:59:15 AM EST
    ...and with Google I think it's fair to say she might not be teaching again.

    Principal Loses Job Over Post on Police Incident in McKinney, Texas

    Not near as bad as above.

    "He did nothing wrong. He was afraid for his life," Iber posted on a Miami Herald story. "I commend him for his actions."

    It would be interesting to know exactly how many people have lost their jobs because of social media.

    Parent

    Don't know, but I bet (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:12:23 AM EST
    it's more than a few.  People are way too unconcerned about what they put out there on social media.  It's not just stupid teens who post pictures of their naughty bits, or of them drinking at a wild party.
    It's adults, who should know better, flinging their business out there.

    Parent
    Cracker banker lady... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 09:42:06 AM EST
    who supposedly started the fight has been suspended from her job at some criminal outfit called Core Logic, who does shady bidness with Banksters of America.

    Worthy targets as they may be, I think there is something creepy about these 21st century cyber-witch hunts.  Do we really all wanna be judged, tarred, and feathered by our worst moment on our worst day?  

    We will rue the day privacy died, and that we gleefully went along for the ride and willingly surrendered any semblance of privacy or the right to make a mistake and not be judged by it forever.    

    Parent

    Privacy concerns don't seem relevant. (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 10:50:45 AM EST
    Schoolteacher posted on Facebook.  McKinney female was in a public place when she took on the kids.  

    Parent
    Lots of idiots get caught (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 10:53:31 AM EST
    Posting their stupidities on social media, if you don't want condemnation for being a bigot, don't go posting racist screeds on Facebook.

    Parent
    Are you actually ON Facebook? (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 05:39:21 PM EST
    thats at least 50% of what it is.  I have told the story before that I fled my original FB page that had "old" friends and family and created a new one and moved all the people I enjoy hearing from to the new one.  For mostly that reason.

    Parent
    Yes, and I've only un-friended (none / 0) (#120)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 06:02:20 PM EST
    one person since I initially set up my profile.  I've kept from saying anything real stupid or illegal on there, for obvious reasons,

    Parent
    What fun is that? (none / 0) (#123)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 06:33:21 PM EST
    One word, Benjamin, just one word...

    yes, Mr. Bradford?

    "tumblr"

    Parent

    Seems (none / 0) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 06:45:32 PM EST
    that way depending on who your friends and family are. I took a lot of them out of my news feed and then some of them I just flat unfriended. Mostly I just think they hurt themselves but a lot of the time I just am not in the mood to see the crazed rantings.

    Parent
    Fortunately (none / 0) (#126)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 06:58:13 PM EST
    in my family I'm considered one of the smarter members, so they don't bother me with any political crap.

    And those distant relatives who don't know me but have become known to me through FB and vice-versa are so wrapped up in their own lives that any kind of political affiliation or expression from anarchy-syndicalism to Tea Party would be a welcome relief sometimes.

     

    Parent

    Be careful what you wish for (none / 0) (#133)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:42:24 PM EST
    spoken like a person who does not have relatives who post daily racist idiocy.  A cousin who post 20 pro gun propaganda screeds a day.  Or multiple assorted religious freaks who post 50 selections of scripture per day.

    Yes you can eliminate them from your news feed but unless you want to personalize everything you post you can't stop them from commenting on yours.

    I still have the original FB page.  I visit about once a month to see who died.  But by making a new page with people I like I actually reclaimed FB as something I enjoy.  I get lots of good information there.  I have many very smart and well connected friends that I enjoy hearing from now that I don't have to sift through the garbage to do it.

    Parent

    I've posted some pretty heavy (none / 0) (#134)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:46:20 PM EST
    political stuff and have gotten zero pushback from anyone I'm friends with.

    Parent
    Another thing is, they're usually (none / 0) (#159)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 01:44:02 AM EST
    so wound up about exes, tragedies in their lives, problems with their children, etc., that even if they were virulent racists they wouldn't have the energy to do or say anything in that vein because they'd be out of steam posting about their personal lives.  One of them will post 20 posts in a row because of their discontent, and I end up scrolling down the page to find someone else who has something interesting to say.

    And don't get me wrong, my relatives have sometimes become PITAses or criminal to such a degree that I would call the cops on some of them if they appeared  on my doorstep, and I've even had one even send me texted threats before I blocked him and texted him about not behaving in a civilized manner.

    I'm not sure if you traded places with me, you'd be happy with the results.  One first cousin of mine swindled his mother out of 30,000$, but hey, he's probably not a racist.  

    Parent

    Disagree with witch-hunt characterization (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by vicndabx on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 10:56:56 AM EST
    While I agree what you do on your own time is your business, assaulting teens after calling them n!66er is a wholly different matter.

    People just don't start harboring that kind of anger and hatred out of the blue.

    No one forces anyone to have a facebook or twitter account.

    That being said, I agree privacy sbould be paramount.  I was just thinking that as I watch the video of this middle aged woman on CNN apparently enamored of inmates some hours north of me.  They've got her picture all over the news - how I wonder?

    Point being, if you want privacy, keep your face off the internet.

    Parent

    But... (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:41:33 AM EST
    with nearly every citizen a walking cameraperson these days, you can't stay off the internet if you try.

    Like I said, these clowns are probably deserving of such social-media vilification...but that's not always the case.  And even the players here, I would assume, are complex human beings like the rest of us and surely have some redeeming qualities.  

    Isn't it at least a little troubling how a mistake, be it isolated or a pattern, in the internet age can be so damaging?

    And these social justice warrior kids on twitter and tumblr are ruthless, if well intentioned.  Very scarlet letterish imo.

    Parent

    Now You Are Offering a Hypothetical... (none / 0) (#65)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:35:30 PM EST
    ...whereas this lady put her business on the street.

    Not the same thing.

    I safeguard my privacy fairly good.  I comment here and occasionally on other news sites, but not often.

    But I am so filtered here it's not even funny since I post from work.  Many conversations in which you post I cannot, or rather, will not reply because I like my job.  I know they have these words somewhere, that being an idiot on the internet has consequences.  

    I say please post more idiots, as there are plenty of good people without a good job looking for one, and all she did is ensure racist teacher is no longer teaching.

    No one vilified her, she did it to herself.  GD, sometimes actions have consequences and someone tasked with shaping young minds ought to understand that thoroughly.

    I just wish all the ugly people would post what they truly believe, then at least we would know who is a scum bag and who isn't.  

    And for the record, that was in no way her worst day, her worst day is the day others discovered it.  She didn't do it out of anger or because of personal issues, it was just her opinion.  I don't like how you are trying to associate it with some horrible thing that might excuse behavior.

    Speaking of, do you think the cop in Texas should keep his jib because he had a bad day, two suicides I believe before going to the pool.  That IMO was a worse day scenario, two suicides I believe before the pool incident.

    Parent

    I'm surprisingly torn... (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:54:40 PM EST
    on the cop...he probably should lose his job as a cop on the street, but I don't think it warrants a prosecution...I think I'd be ok with a transfer to an unarmed desk job.  As we know all too well, far worse cop behavior leads to a promotion, never mind discipline.

    I don't know how sincere it was, but he did apologize...that's pretty f*ckin' rare in that business.  Compare that to the cops that killed unarmed men with "no regrets".  Public outcry is starting to have an effect on the police I think.

    I'm all for calling out and shaming abhorrent behavior, but we must leave room for forgiveness and redemption and be careful not to just write people off.  That's all I'm trying to say with my generalized comments, with no specific case in mind.  Vigilance yes, ruthlessness no.  

    Parent

    No Kdog (none / 0) (#104)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 04:07:47 PM EST
    there can be no forgiveness for being PC and insulting the wrong group.

    OTOH, I see that everyone is ignoring the woman in Spokane who lied about her race, evidently to get a job.

    Using Scott's logic, she is keeping some deserving actual black person from getting a job.

    And yeah, I would have fired the cop. He showed that he can't handle stress and doesn't need to be in law enforcement.

    Parent

    She said blacks should be segregated (none / 0) (#108)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 04:42:17 PM EST
    that goes beyond offensive into toxic racism.  

    Would you be able to work besides somebody, knowing that they called for people of your ethnic group to be segregated from the general public?

    Quit trying to minimize what she did.

    Oh, yeah, btw, passing for African-American under false pretenses is bad, too.  From Salon:

    So this isn't about being an ally, or making the family of your choosing, or even how one feels on the inside. It's about, apparently, flat out deception. It's about how one person chose to obtain a college education and jobs and credibility in her community. It about allegedly pretending to speak from a racial experience you simply don't have. You want to live your truth, that's not how you go about it. And it's an insult to anyone honestly trying to do just that to suggest anything otherwise, for even a moment.



    Parent
    So she said something you didn't like. (2.00 / 1) (#142)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:29:37 PM EST
    Neither did I.

    But if I run around getting upset over everything somebody says that I don't like I will be a busy man.

    Besides, free speech isn't about me liking everything someone says. If she slandered an individual then they can take action. If she broke some rule of her employer they have the right to fire her.

    Other than that, my position is a simple, so what.

    And I will comment what I want and you can willfully misunderstand it and make all the snarks you want.

    And yes, I would be able to work with such idiots. I went to work in Chicago as a "Hillbilly" so I understand more about such things than you ever will.

    And why the comment on the Spokane woman?? I already said:

    OTOH, I see that everyone is ignoring the woman in Spokane who lied about her race, evidently to get a job.

    Using Scott's logic, she is keeping some deserving actual black person from getting a job.

    Of course she probably feels like she's black. And we know in the PC world it is feelings that matter over facts.

    Parent

    Correction: she said something no civilized (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 01:52:54 AM EST
    human should like.

    But if I run around getting upset over everything somebody says that I don't like I will be a busy man.

    The irony in your statement is so thick, you could cut it with a knife.

    Try thinking about any African-Americans she works with, or have children in her class.  Would you advise them to just shrug it off, go back to work with a woman who thinks she shouldn't have to work alongside you, or teach your children?

    Empathy.  You might look into the concept sometime.

    As for willfully misunderstanding you, go cry me a freakin river, Jim.  If you have such a problem with me, you don't have to respond in the first place.

    Hope this helps!

    Parent

    And your point is what?? (none / 0) (#181)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:12:47 PM EST
    We live in a society in which everyone runs around being insulted but spending very little time fixing problems.

    I wasn't asked, or was you. I believe she is fired or being fired which seems right to me.

    Empathy?? Once more. I went to Chicago as an employee with a "hillbilly/southern" accent. The disdain of a couple of my fellow workers was palpable. When I tried to call real estate people re advertised houses the house in question was always "no longer for sale."

    I finally asked my HR guy and he told me that with my accent the agent thought I was black or otherwise unable to actually purchase. He advised I tell the agent my job title (Marketing Manager) and that my company had transferred me to Chicago and was paying all relocation costs.

    I did what he suggested and all the problems went away.

    Of course we all know that racism existed only in the South.

    So empathy?? Like I said. I have been there and done that. You only know what you've read or heard.

    I noted that,like you, I objected to what she said. Yet that isn't enough for you because you just want to disagree.

    Parent

    Okay, hillbillies should be segregated (none / 0) (#188)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:49:06 PM EST
    From the general population for the safety of others, and the often end up as high school drop-outs.

    And don't get mad at me, that's just my opinion.

    Parent

    Regarding the Clinton Correctional... (none / 0) (#90)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 02:41:46 PM EST
    Casanovas...pretty wild prison break eh?

    Never let it be said it's only men who let their loins get the best of 'em...that prison employee lady is so screwed.  

    I just love me a good prison break, it gives me hope for humanity.  And this one was a masterpiece...even the no show getaway driver didn't foil the escape.  Bad men as they may be, these dudes are impressive.  I'm rooting for them as long as they don't hurt anybody...I think they've had enough time to hike to Canada by now if that's where they were headed.

    Parent

    Reminds of... (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 03:01:42 PM EST
    ...Eric Robert Rudolph.

    Well I think the reason that anyone cares two people are out of prison is because they are dangerous murders, not folklore heroes.  

    Cheering for them is so ridiculous that no reason needs to be given.

    I read today that the woman did not give them material support, only that she was suppose to be the getaway driver.  Not sure what the crime is for not reporting a break, but they got her on smuggling contraband.  She is in trouble, but not 'giving them power tools' trouble.

    I keep seeing her kid on camera telling the press basically his mom isn't stupid enough to fall for an inmate.  Poor kid.

    Parent

    After all, family is family. She's likely all he has, and vice versa.

    Poor kid.

    Parent

    prison breaks are great (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by nyjets on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 03:41:25 PM EST
    I mean I am sure that the victims of the criminals are thrilled to death that they escaped. And the people living in the area are happy that two killers are running loose.

    Parent
    It will be a fascinating movie. (none / 0) (#91)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 02:53:43 PM EST
    But who to cast?

    I have sympathy for the people who are worried about these guys hurting or killing them.

    According to the NYT, this max security prison has been escaped from many times, including shortly after it opened and once by the same methods these two used.

    Parent

    One of Bogart's early films had a character (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 11:33:48 AM EST
    named Dannemora Dan.

    Parent
    Don't bother them... (none / 0) (#93)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 03:08:31 PM EST
    I don't think they'll bother you.  

    I'm in their debt for the doofus look on Cuomo's face while standing over a manhole alone!

    I do feel sympathy for all the other prisoners who will suffer lost privileges because of this.  

    Parent

    I take it you haven't read (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 03:54:57 PM EST
    In Cold Blood?

    Parent
    they are killers (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by nyjets on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 03:56:54 PM EST
    I am reasonable certain that they are a threat to people  irregardless if you 'dont bother them'

    Parent
    Andrew Cuomo has that look naturally. (none / 0) (#139)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:20:02 PM EST
    It's not his fault. He's just one of those guys who don't age well once they hit their fifties. He cut a rather dashing figure 20 years ago when he was President Clinton's HUD Secretary. But in the ensuing two decades the lines on his face have become rather deeply etched, not unlike his late father, which accentuates a sort of hangdog look about him. And every time he goes pop-eyed, he turns into Dewey McDoofus.

    It's too bad he didn't inherit his father's heart.

    Parent

    There is no privacy on Facebook (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:07:17 AM EST
    Mark Zuckerberg made sure of that.
    If you don't want your information and opinions out there for (eventually) the world to see, then don't do Facebook, and also don't Tweet.  You might as well be putting up a huge billboard in the middle of town.
    Now, if she had privately emailed her opinion to a few friends, and if she wasn't using her work email (employers generally reserve the right to check your work emails), then she would have an expectation of privacy (unless her friends squealed on her) and if somehow, somebody hacked into her account and published her private email, then she would definitely have a privacy concern.
    I'm betting that you aren't on Facebook or Twitter, Dog.  And if you are concerned about your privacy, never do so.

    Parent
    You know me too well... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:37:33 AM EST
    Talkleft is my only "social media" outlet, I value my privacy.

    I was thinking in general of anyone being captured on camera at their worst moment on their worst day, the video going viral, and then forever being defined by that moment.  That kinda world doesn't seem too appealing to me.


    Parent

    I don't like it, either (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:52:28 AM EST
    But when you are in any "public" space, there is no expectation of privacy any more.
    It's only going to get worse.  Between any random person snapping pictures and videos, all the security cameras in places of business, and the government.....forget about privacy.
    If you think it's bad here, hop on over to Great Britain.  There are CCTV cameras everywhere, and they make no bones about it.

    The British Security Industry Authority (BSIA) estimated there are up to 5.9 million closed-circuit television cameras in the country, including 750,000 in "sensitive locations" such as schools, hospitals and care homes.
    The survey's maximum estimate works out at one for every 11 people in the UK, although the BSIA said the most likely figure was 4.9 million cameras in total, or one for every 14 people.
    Both projections were higher than previous estimates which ranged between 1.5 million and four million.

    Link.

    (And, BTW, slightly off topic, if you think the TSA rigmarole we go through here at the airports is intrusive and obnoxious, try flying through Heathrow some time.)


    Parent

    Posting your email add. here seems (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:49:28 AM EST
    to contradict your privacy concerns.

    Parent
    Eh... (none / 0) (#53)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:03:02 PM EST
    my real name is not tied to it, as you know.  I try to be careful, but I'm not totally anal about it.

    Parent
    Your service to the rest of us is much appreciated (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:04:24 PM EST
    Neither is mine, on the (none / 0) (#56)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:11:36 PM EST
    Gmail account that I use here in my settings.
    But of course, as you know, Dog, if someone were to hack into Hotmail or Gmail (or if the government wanted to know), they could probably trace our anonymous posted addresses back to us.
    For that matter, they could probably do this if they hacked into Talk Left.
    All you can do is take reasonable precautions, unless you want to become a hermit off somewhere, totally divorced from the modern world, and living off of scrounged food.
    I don't think that locusts and honey will cut it for you.    ;-)

    Parent
    You're describing... (none / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:28:35 PM EST
    my retirement plans..."unless you want to become a hermit off somewhere, totally divorced from the modern world".

    Just hope to do better than scrounged food, and will need to learn to grow tobacco and the high quality reefer to which I have become accustomed;)

    Parent

    There's no "probably" about it, Zorba. (none / 0) (#173)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 11:36:01 AM EST
    Besides, Gmail is provided by the Great and Terrible Google, who knows all, sees all, and sells all.

    They also scan each and every gmail email for data about the correspondants.

    Parent

    Yes. (none / 0) (#193)
    by Zorba on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 01:52:32 PM EST
    And I'm sure that Yahoo, Microsoft, and all the other email providers are doing the same d@mned thing.  Maybe not as successfully or ubiquitously as Google, but they're doing it.
    We're all commodities to them.

    Parent
    CoreLogic (none / 0) (#110)
    by Palli on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 05:15:06 PM EST
    is a contract company that "researches" & determines for enclosures on residential buildings. Their stock and trade is the new iteration of segregation and redlining in America. She garners no sympathy from me.

    Parent
    Bill Clinton Interview (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by vicndabx on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:01:13 AM EST
    re: I don't know if anyone wanted/expected anything in return for donations.

    Why is this news?  Seems like it would be a true statement.  Heaven forbid they did know someone wanted something in return.

    My friend's new museum (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:02:58 AM EST
    I had the great fortune to take part in the most important development in bicycling of the 20th Century.  Through an unlikely series of events a small group of bicyclists revolutionized the sport and the very concept of bicycling, with the simple design which has been called from that day to this, a "mountain bike."

    This in turn spurred an amazing period of ferment and re-thinking what a bike is and how it is used.  Now bicycle design has exploded into dozens of micro-niches.  Anybody can design and build a bike, but not every new design changes anything.  

    Which brings me to one of my colleagues in the great bicycle adventure, Joe Breeze.  Joe's bicycle designs changed everything, beginning when he built the first working example of this new kind of bike, not yet called a "mountain bike" in 1978.

    My friend of 45 years, a world renowned bicycle designer, Joe wrote the foreword for my book, Fat Tire Flyer: Repack and the Birth of Mountain Biking.  Joe put almost as much work into the book as I did.

    This week, Joe's personal dream reached fruition with the Grand Opening of the Marin Museum of Bicycling.  Two years from the acquisition of the site to the opening, it is a magnificent paean to 200 years of travel on two (or more) wheels.

    Thank you (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:14:00 AM EST
    i love my mountain bike almost carnally

    Parent
    On the list now of must see (none / 0) (#72)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:10:40 PM EST
    Great White Huckster in Spokane NAACP (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:22:08 PM EST
    scandal "exposes our delusional constructions and perceptions of race."  

    - Steven W Thrasher, The Guardian

    And yet Rachel Dolezal, the president of the Spokane branch of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People had been passing herself off as mixed race with an African-American father for years, until she was outed as white by her parents this week.

    As the theologian Broderick Greer tweeted, "only a white person could get this much attention for being black."



    I think this is a fascinating story (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 05:15:43 PM EST
    to me it doesn't seem so simple as hucksterism.  The NAACP released a statement.  It appears she has done some good work.

    Baltimore, MD - For 106 years, the National  Association for the Advancement of Colored People has held a long and proud tradition of receiving support from people of all faiths, races, colors and creeds. NAACP Spokane Washington Branch President Rachel Dolezal is enduring a legal issue with her family, and we respect her privacy in this matter. One's racial identity is not a qualifying criteria or disqualifying standard for NAACP leadership. The NAACP Alaska-Oregon-Washington State Conference stands behind Ms. Dolezal's advocacy record. In every corner of this country, the NAACP remains committed to securing political, educational, and economic justice for all people, and we encourage Americans of all stripes to become members and serve as leaders in our organization.
    Hate language sent through mail and social media along with credible threats continue to be a serious issue for our units in the Pacific Northwest and across the nation. We take all threats seriously  and encourage the FBI and the Department of Justice to fully investigate each occurrence.

    Perhaps there are transracial people as well as transgendered people.  That was at least half snark.  But really, how interesting to pose as a black person.  We have had black people who posed as white for more obvious reasons.  
    I just think we maybe should not pile on this person to quickly.
    Reading around the web I see the full range of reactions.
    Mine is mostly bemusement.  I don't see any harm.   But I'm not black.
    I don't think, as some have said, it a form of "blackface".

    Parent

    Rev Al (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 05:29:12 PM EST
    is about to 'splain it.

    Parent
    So what did the good reverend have to say? (none / 0) (#141)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:29:02 PM EST
    We're six hours behind the east coast,, so he comes on at high noon here and I don't get to see him. But the good thing about the time difference is that Morning Yo! starring MSNBC's equivalent of Pinky and The Brain first airs at midnight Hawaii standard time, so I get to sleep right through it.

    Parent
    He was basically (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:43:33 PM EST
    "meh"

    He said people shouldn't lie.  He said she has done good work.  Which is true.  He said whatever problem there is with the story should be about her honesty not her race.  He, as RR did somewhere in this thread, said the NAACP has a long history of multiracial membership.  He did not share the peanut galleries concern that she was "taking a job from a black person" which we know so well how deeply this concern is held by them

    It's a strange story.  I have no idea why she felt she needed to lie about her heritage.  And apparently no one else does.  She must hate her parents.  If she didn't before she certainly does now since they seemed to think it was their duty to "out" her.  Which in itself seems strange and sort of spiteful and sh!tty.
    But that's just me.

    I'm personally amazed she is getting threats but whatever.


    Parent

    The household is torn (none / 0) (#149)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 09:02:13 PM EST
    If Bruce Jenner says he's Catelyn on the inside can't this woman identify with black ethnicity over white?  I just heard an AA woman say she displayed many layers of pathology...we used to say that about all sorts of other people and have now walked that back.

    Parent
    How does the party of Old Fashioned Values (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 02:20:17 PM EST
    square being massively bankrolled by casino pimp Sheldon Adelson?

    Just wondering.

    The party of Old Fashioned Hypocrisy. (none / 0) (#85)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 02:24:25 PM EST
    It never goes outa' style.. (none / 0) (#86)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 02:25:45 PM EST
    Excellent post re issues liberals (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 02:21:55 PM EST
    Need to push for and get commitments on even b/4 the Iowa caucuses:  

    Mike Conrad, a newbie at DK

    To Howdy at 168 re Hannibal (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 07:02:39 PM EST
    I'm streaming season 1 via Netflix right now...only on episode 2. It is really good, but I should not have started it while eati g dinner. What was I thinking?

    Turtle mating season? (4.00 / 1) (#136)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:07:37 PM EST
    or the come in my back yard to get the fruit that falls off the trees.
    Or both?
    I just chased Ghost down and took the third turtle of the day and deposited it safely in the field across the street and by the time I get back they have another one.

    Poor things.  They can't really hurt them.  Well I guess they probably could if I let them work at it long enough, but it must be a terrifying experience to be the ball in a game of keep away between three giants with big teeth.

    It's rattlesnake season (none / 0) (#183)
    by nycstray on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:18:04 PM EST
    around me :(

    I think it would take a bit for Rox to figure out a turtle :P

    Parent

    Tamir Rice shooting update (none / 0) (#1)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 11, 2015 at 09:03:41 PM EST
    Acting under a rarely used provision of Ohio state law, a judge found probable cause Thursday to charge Cleveland police Officer Timothy Loehmann with murder in the fatal shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice last year.

    Cleveland Municipal Court Judge Ronald Adrine also found cause to support negligent homicide charges against Officer Frank Garmback, Loehmann's partner, who is accused of standing by after Loehmann shot Tamir in November at a recreation center, where Tamir was playing with a pellet gun.

    Adrine agreed with local activists known as the "Cleveland 8" who took the unusual step of independently seeking charges because, they said, they'd lost confidence in the grand jury investigation.

    The ruling is only advisory and doesn't affect the separate grand jury investigation.

    Link

    Unfortunately, this doesn't mean as much as it sounds like it should; the final decision will be the grand jury's.

    I would love to see this go to trial (none / 0) (#4)
    by McBain on Thu Jun 11, 2015 at 10:01:19 PM EST
    but it looks like a civil matter not criminal.

    Parent
    And you base that upon -- what, exactly? (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:13:22 AM EST
    McBain: "I would love to see this go to trial but it looks like a civil matter not criminal."

    Given your similar baseless statements in the past on this matter, I have every confidence in my own conclusion that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'll take Judge Ronald B. Adrine's assessment over yours, thank you very much:

    "The video in question in this case is notorious and hard to watch. After viewing it several times, this court is still thunderstruck by how quickly this event turned deadly. The relevant portion covers 18 seconds immediately preceding the point where Tamir Rice suffers the wound, doubles up and falls to the ground. On the video, the Zone Car containing Officers Loehmann and Grmback is still in the process of stopping when Rice is shot.

    "Following the shooting, four additional minutes pass, during which neither officer approached Tamir as he lies wounded on the ground. At close to four minutes a young lady, who news reports have since identified as Tamir's sister, arrives on the scene and is restrained from going to her brother's side. Nearly eight minutes go by before paramedics arrive at the location. During that same time, at least six other members of the Cleveland Division of Police join the first two and appear on the video.

    "It is difficult to discern, because of the quality of the tape, what, if any, first aid anyone renders to Rice during these eight minutes. Nearly fourteen minutes ultimately expire between the time Tamir is shot and the time he is ultimately removed from the park."

    [...]

    "There appears to be little if any time reflected on the video for Rice to react or respond to any verbal or audible commands given from Loehmann and Garmback from the zone car between the time that they first arrived and the time Rice was shot."

    Judge Adrine found probable cause for charges of murder, involuntary manslaughter, reckless homicide, negligent homicide, and dereliction of duty against Timothy Loehmann, the officer who shot and killed Tamir Rice.

    In the matter of Officer Frank Garmback, the driver of the police vehicle from which the fatal shots were fired, Judge Adrine found probable cause for him to be charged with negligent homicide and dereliction of duty.

    "This court reaches its conclusions consistent with the facts in evidence and the standard of proof that applies at this time. [...] This court determines that complaints should be filed by the prosecutor of the City of Cleveland and / or the Cuyahoga County prosecutor."

    While Cleveland police officials have insisted that Loehmann ordered Rice to put his hands up not less than three times before firing at him, Judge Adrine concluded that the evidence tends to undermine that particular claim, since the elapsed time between the patrol car's arrival in front of the park credenza and Tamir being shot by Loehmann and crumbling to the ground is only 1.8 seconds.

    There is more than enough evidence and probable cause to try these two officers on the criminal charges laid out by Judge Adrine. While his opinion is strictly advisory, were Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy McGinty to ignore it, he'll likely do so at his own prospective political peril going forward.

    Speaking for myself only, I think it's a damned shame that such a tragic matter has had to become political in order to bring about some sense of resolution for the victim's family and the community at large, but so be it.

    From my perspective, this case is remarkably straight forward, and is hardly complicated rocket science. And it should have NEVER reached this point where private citizens finally felt compelled to petition the Court itself for redress -- as per their right under Sec. 2935.09, Ohio Revised Code -- in an attempt to compel city and county law enforcement officials to stop dilly-dallying and do their jobs.

    Shame on those same officials for having apparently slow-walked this investigation for nearly seven months now. It looks as though they were deliberately trying to run out the clock on the public's attention span. The longer justice is delayed in matters such as these, the greater the possibility becomes that justice may ultimately be denied -- and that serves nobody's best long-term interests.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    It's not easy to indict a cop (2.00 / 3) (#9)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:36:52 AM EST
    and ever more difficult to convict one. They have good lawyers and make good witnesses. The Rice family will have an easier time winning some kind of monetary settlement.  That's what this brilliant PR stunt is all about.  

    I'm sure you're aware the burden of proof is much lower in a civil case.  I'm sure you're aware people, companies and organizations sometimes settle even when they believe they can win.

    Now, continue with your insults, personal attacks and blaming of Fox News in one of your novel length responses. Anything less would be disappointing.

    Parent

    Doubling down on stupid once again, I see. (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 02:13:41 AM EST
    McBain: "The Rice family will have an easier time winning some kind of monetary settlement. That's what this brilliant PR stunt is all about."

    I know that this will likely come as a shock to a dedicated Foxbat like yourself, but many people of color in this country who tragically lose a child to police brutality under such questionable circumstances really aren't interested in simply sticking it to The Man for its own sake, and winning a big payout in the process.

    Rather, they are actually seeking justice on behalf of their loved ones and trying to ensure requisite changes in the legal system, so that others aren't mindlessly victimized in the future by such mindless officers, who think a badge gives them license to do what they will without consequence.

    Justice for people of color --what a radical concept, eh?

    Parent

    As for this particular case (none / 0) (#12)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 02:05:26 AM EST
    The driving officer put the shooting officer in a tough spot by pulling up too close to Rice. The dispatcher may have put both officers in a tough spot by not relaying important information. I just don't see a criminal jury convicting any one particular cop of a crime.  

    Assuming the Rice family can sue the entire police department, I see a potential civil win.

    Parent

    What part of they shot the kid in 1.8 seconds (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:29:49 AM EST
    don't you understand? They lied in the police report to cover this up. The police states they told Tamir to drop the gun 3 times. That is absolutely impossible in the time frame shown in the video. Of course, unless you count them saying that in the car whilst driving to the park as valid.

    Get off your knees. This was a criminal act of murder.

    Parent

    I think we need more information (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:33:44 AM EST
    (Snark)

    Parent
    In case you haven't noticed Chuck (none / 0) (#44)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:29:20 AM EST
    Cops rarely get convicted.  I'm not even sure they will be indicted.  

    No need for insults.  

    Parent

    Oh, well, if that's the case, McBain, ... (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:55:22 PM EST
    McBain: "In case you haven't noticed Chuck[,] Cops rarely get convicted. I'm not even sure they will be indicted. No need for insults."

    ... then why don't we henceforth give up any and all efforts to seek justice, surrender our civil rights wholesale to the powers that be, honor these two brave and manly souls with a couple of mayoral commendations, medals for valor and nice bonuses, and allow them both to retire early at full pensions, with our thanks and gratitude for a job well done?

    Perhaps when you cease being such an uncritical apologist for egregious instances of police brutality, and stop repeatedly blaming the various victims of these goons in uniforms for whatever respective fate befalls them -- as you've done time and again in these threads -- then maybe the rest of us here will no longer have an immediate cause to call you an unthinking ignoramus, a right-wing jackass and worse.

    Wise up.

    Parent

    There isn't any immediate cause (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:38:53 PM EST
    for insults and personal attacks. That's you being a bully.  You don't like my politics, or what you think my politics are, so you dish out put downs.  It doesn't strengthen your argument. It makes you look insecure.  

    Parent
    McBain: "You don't like my politics, or what you think my politics are, so you dish out put downs.  It doesn't strengthen your argument. It makes you look insecure."

    As far as the dismissive put-downs are concerned, my little ignorant right-wing piñata, you present yourself as an all too easy and tempting target. I'm not the sort of liberal who'll gladly accept the role of meek and mild Alan Colmes when you show up channeling the blowsy and foolish likes of Sean Hannity.

    And truth be told, we Democrats made a huge mistake in first allowing tomfoolery such as yours to even gain traction in the public consciousness and accompanying public discussion in the first place, and it's cost our country very dearly as a result. So, given that I don't like to repeat my mistakes, I prefer to counter bullschitt such as yours directly and bluntly.

    Because as the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. once observed 50 years ago, and it still holds true today, nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

    And in these matters, much like those who opposed Dr. King in the 1950s and '60s, you and your fellow Foxbats have pretty much cornered the market on those two rather dubious attributes. How else to explain your apparent "law and order" obsession and mentality, which appears to serve as nothing more than a convenient euphemism for keeping people of color squarely in their place?

    I specifically told you when you first appeared here and started playing your little right-wing reindeer games that I have a very low threshold of tolerance for such ignorant and fact-free opining, especially when it often comes across as nothing more than race baiting and assertion of white privilege. So you really can't say that you were never warned.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    You forgot to quote Gandhi (2.00 / 1) (#103)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 04:03:42 PM EST
    If you were confident in your opinions you wouldn't need all the nonsense.  I'm not even sure what your opinion is in this case? You keep getting side tracked with your fear of anything that isn't left wing.

    I don't believe these cops will be convicted of murder.  I'm not sure what they will be indicted for, if anything.  Do you have an opinion of that?  Can you state it without violating the blog rules?

    "And truth be told, we Democrats made a huge mistake in first allowing tomfoolery such as yours to even gain traction in the public consciousness and accompanying public discussion in the first place, and it's cost our country very dearly as a result."

    Sounds like you're against free speech or something. Our country is made of of different people with different views, values and opinions.  You can't silence those you don't like.

    Parent

    McBain: "I don't believe these cops will be convicted of murder.  I'm not sure what they will be indicted for, if anything.  Do you have an opinion of that?"

    Well, a good place to start learning would be with Judge Aldrine's opinion, to which I had earlier provided a link above and am providing again here.

    You really ought to take the time to actually educate yourself on the issue by reading an informed opinion from a learned man and judge who actually knows what he's talking about, rather than continuing to allow yourself to be misled and deluded by the steady stream of poisonous musings from vitriolic know-nothings that are a regular and unfortunate staple of Fox News and AM squawk radio.

    I've stated my opinion about Officers Loehmann and Garmback, ad nauseum already, which is that there is more than enough evidence here to warrant their arrest and subsequent trial in criminal court. It's become a matter of moral principle at this point.

    Now, nobody ever said that doing the right thing in this particular case was necessarily going to be effortless and pain-free. But to avoid making tough choices altogether for fear of potential failure is not standing upon principle, Rather, it's succumbing to the immediate expediency of the moment.

    Is that what you're advocating here -- expediency over principle? Because quite frankly, it sure as hell sounds like it.

    Finally, I'm all for free speech, and I enjoy an honest discussion and robust exchange of ideas. But if you're going to exercise that particular First Amendment right in order to highlight your own ignorance, engage in misdirection and / or traffic in misinformation, you can expect pushback here from me if I happen to be around.

    And if you don't like the pushback you're getting, then you can either stop self-pandering to your own racial stereotypes and elevate your game intellectually and honestly, or feel free to park your browser at another website where your misperceptions are validated by others like-minded, and your apparent sense of white outrage and victimization is doubtless encouraged.

    Now, that's the last I'm going to say on this subject or any other topic in this particular Open Thread, because we're going round and round here to the point where we're probably one step short of blog-clogging, and others need to be given their opportunity to talk about issues and items that matter to them.

    Signing off. Aloha.

    Parent

    Since you don't watch FNC (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 11:37:15 AM EST
    How do you know this is true?

    poisonous musings from vitriolic know-nothings that are a regular and unfortunate staple of Fox News


    Parent
    I dunno (none / 0) (#176)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 11:44:58 AM EST
    But one can watch what goes on at Fox News, courtesy of Media Matters :

    Fox News host Megyn Kelly lashed out at "the left wing press" for highlighting comments she made about a viral video showing police officer Eric Casebolt manhandling a teenage girl at a pool party in McKinney, Texas. But Media Matters correctly described Kelly's June 8 comments where she claimed that the teenage girl attacked in the video shared some of the fault for the actions of the officer, arguing that the girl was "no saint either" because she didn't follow the officer's instructions. Kelly's remarks sparked widespread outrage in liberal and conservative media.

    On the June 10 edition of her show Kelly said that "some of the left-wing press continue to use this incident to dishonestly push their own agenda." She claimed that Salon.com "repeat[ed] a Media Matters lie" that Kelly leapt to Casebolt's defense "by saying that this teen was, quote, 'no saint either.'"
    But Media Matters included the full context of Kelly's comments in a June 8 post detailing Fox News personalities' reaction to the controversial video:

    Fox News host Megyn Kelly responded to the brutal video showing a teen girl being manhandled by a Texas police officer by commenting that "the girl was no saint either. He had told her to leave, and she continued to linger. And when the cop tells you to leave, get out." She followed this by saying "I'm not defending his actions, let me make that clear."

    Conservative media outlets also criticized Kelly's coverage. The Washington Examiner reported that "Megyn Kelly defends Texas cop's aggressive response to McKinney teenagers," noting that "Kelly claimed that while she was not defending Casebolt, [the girl] was not completely blameless either." Reason.com also criticized Kelly in a post, writing:

    Some conservatives, unfortunately, are falling over themselves to defend the police--the one kind of public employee who can do no wrong in the eyes of all-too many people on the right. Media Matters compiled a disheartening list of Fox News personalities raising baseless hypotheticals that could (maybe) justify Casebolt's rash actions.




    Parent
    Media Matters watches (none / 0) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:13:22 PM EST
    FOX news so we dont have to.  

    Parent
    It appears to me that Kelly is stating her opinion (none / 0) (#185)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:35:33 PM EST
    and Media Matters doesn't provide a link so we don't know for sure what she said nor do we have any context.

    But assuming this is correct:

    Fox News host Megyn Kelly responded to the brutal video showing a teen girl being manhandled by a Texas police officer by commenting that "the girl was no saint either. He had told her to leave, and she continued to linger. And when the cop tells you to leave, get out." She followed this by saying "I'm not defending his actions, let me make that clear."

    Kelly accurately notes that the girl didn't leave.

    Which is correct.

    She gives some great advice.

     

    And when the cop tells you to leave, get out."

    And she then emphasizes she isn't defending the cop.

    I'm not defending his actions, let me make that clear."

    So what you are claiming is that since Kelly provided factual information about what actually happened and provided some great advice she is providing:

    poisonous musings from vitriolic know-nothings that are a regular and unfortunate staple of Fox News

    OK.


    Parent

    It's (5.00 / 2) (#199)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 03:14:44 PM EST
    funny how you earlier defended Pam Geller's first amendment rights
    If Geller isn't free, then who is free??
    but ignore this young lady's rights.

    You seem to demand protection for geller's hate speech

    And if we aren't willing to use the police to protect speech we, and others disagree with, then someone will use the police to suppress free speech.
    Pushing a citizen's face into the dirt to shut her up sounds like suppression to me.

    you asked

    how much freedom do we have?? A pint? A quart? Did our founders say, "We only have enough to last until 2015?"
    Did they say plenty to spare to defend hate speech but none to spare to stand up to authority?

    What if the likes of Sam Adams and MLK had heeded the "great" advice of that noted  patriot Kelley to just "get out" when challenged by authority? You apparently would be willing to surrender your rights to any bully with tin badge.

     

    Parent

    et al, The subject was (none / 0) (#200)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 03:46:56 PM EST
     Donald's wild claims which I refuted. But I accept you folks' new goal posts.

    FlJoe - Geller is expressing her opinion re a political matter.  The girl has every right to do the same.

    But she doesn't have the right to ignore a lawful order from the police. She didn't leave.

    As a result of her not leaving the police over reacted. I have already commented that I thought the police over reacted so your "lecture" is wasted.

    "And yeah, I would have fired the cop. He showed that he can't handle stress and doesn't need to be in law enforcement. "

    Mondriggian:

    "And that's the objectionable part, FYI.  Even if she's not defending the officer, ther's no reason to say that "she's no saint".

    And exactly why is that objectionable?? Is it that you don't want to acknowledge that the girls actions contributed? Look, you can say that the girl did wrong and you can say the cop did wrong. They are not exclusive actions.


    Parent

    You assert (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 05:05:36 PM EST
    that it was a lawful order, I am not so sure it was.  My understanding is Police only have limited authority to order citizens to leave public areas.  Given the fact that there were several other people milling about, including some fat white guys and the teen who taped the whole thing who were not subject to this "just leave" order shows that these orders were issued and prosecuted in an "uneven" manner at best, a blatant disregard. of civil rights at worst.

    By all accounts this cop was an out of control bully from the get go, this brave girl stood up to that bully, she stood up for her rights, she stood up for our rights. She is a true patriot unlike all the police state apologists that inhabit the airwaves and audience of FNN.

    Parent

    Maher on everybody's favorite (none / 0) (#201)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 03:49:29 PM EST
    NOOZE BLONDE

    Alert!
    I think he's blaming the "messenger"

    Parent

    Let me get this straight (none / 0) (#203)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 03:54:42 PM EST
    In refusing to obey the officers' unreasonable request, she was being unreasonable herself and therefore worthy of having Ms. Canonization Megan Kelly point out she's not a saint.

    Got it, I think.

    Parent

    Here's a link (none / 0) (#186)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:46:03 PM EST
    to  the June 8th post.

    And a link to the other post.

    Oh, yeah, she was just giving her opinion. Right.

    Check them out, if you dare.

    Parent

    There's no need to ASSUME it's correct (none / 0) (#187)
    by Yman on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:47:56 PM EST
    It's Media Matters.  Not Faux News or one of your posts.  All you have to do is click on the video that's posted at MM and you can see if for yourself.  They always provide video and/or links to the source material.

    Parent
    You forgot to bold the (none / 0) (#191)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:57:56 PM EST
    part where she says the girl was no saint.

    Instead of breaking it down for context, here's the statement as reported in the June 8th post:

    Fox's Kelly: "The Girl Was No Saint Either." Fox News host Megyn Kelly responded to the brutal video showing a teen girl being manhandled by a Texas police officer by commenting that "the girl was no saint either. He had told her to leave, and she continued to linger. And when the cop tells you to leave, get out." She followed this by saying "I'm not defending his actions, let me make that clear." [Fox News, The Kelly File, 6/8/15]

    And that's the objectionable part, FYI.  Even if she's not defending the officer, ther's no reason to say that "she's no saint".

    So peddle your indignation somewhere else, Jim.  You certainly aren't making any sales here today.

    Parent

    When all else fails people like to (none / 0) (#197)
    by McBain on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 02:25:35 PM EST
    blame Fox News, attack the messenger, and then basically say.....  "I can't win, so I'm going to take my ball and go home!"  

    Why do people think they know everything when they limit themselves to one side of the story?

    Parent

    We attack the messenger not for . (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 02:32:09 PM EST
    their message but their bias.  Look up Fox terrorist fist bump on the Google, if you have any doubts on that score.

    Parent
    You mean (none / 0) (#202)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 03:50:57 PM EST
    I think it's possible (none / 0) (#45)
    by CST on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:33:13 AM EST
    that current events could influence the trustworthiness of police to juries

    Parent
    I think there's a better chance of a conviction (none / 0) (#47)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:38:53 AM EST
    In the Walter Scott case.  Juries tend to take their jobs seriously.  

    Parent
    I agree with that (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by CST on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:53:45 AM EST
    I disagree with the implied conclusion that a result that doesn't confirm what you think would be due to a jury not taking their job seriously.

    Parent
    Interesting (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:57:23 AM EST
    City of Cleveland and / or the Cuyahoga County prosecutor."

    Does this mean that if whoever has been dragging their feet for, what, 7 months doesn't get an indictment there may be another chance.  

    I missed that part.

    Parent

    Apparently a citizen may file (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:50:41 PM EST
    an affidavit pursuant to the Ohio statute, and the next step is a judicial officer making a decision based on the affidavit as to whether there is probable cause to arrest a person, but there is no provision for arrest or trial.  Although I did find an Ohio state court case that did o to trial.  The challenge to the statute was in a habeus proceeding in federal court.  But the Circuit Court of Appeals decided defendant could and should have raised the issue at trial in the state court.

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 05:19:52 PM EST
     but not sure you understood my question.  If there are two groups of prosecutors does that mean there are two potential places charges could come from if the person now dealing with it, who does appear from most accounts, to be dragging their feet.

    Parent
    According to the linked rling on the citizen (none / 0) (#155)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 10:52:38 PM EST
    affidavit, although the acity Attorney may decide to issue charges, the case would ultimately be prosecuted by the county n

    Parent
    Standard of justice is that it has to be easy? (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 05:44:45 PM EST
    It's not easy to indict a cop and ever [sic] more difficult to convict one. They have good lawyers and make good witnesses.

    Please clarify that.  Are you saying that we should not put people on trial if they have good lawyers?  Shouldn't the CRIME be the reason we put people on trial?

    The police report said that the officers told Tamir three times to drop the weapon, and he did not comply.  Since we know absolutely that the first shot took place 1.8 seconds after the door opened, that is clearly a lie.  How many times can you say "Drop the weapon!" in 1.8 seconds?  How long should a subject have to comply with a police order before he is shot?

    If a "good witness" is contradicted by video of the event, which should we believe?  It seems that every day now a video shows police to be lying.  Do you believe video evidence of police lying has a place in the justice system?

    Work with me here.

    Parent

    OT (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 05:48:37 PM EST
    you seem to have many friends of color.  I would be interested in your reaction to the black impersonator.

    Parent
    Rev Al sez (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 06:01:47 PM EST
    her race should not be a factor.  Her honesty should be the not thing we discuss.

    I'm good with that.

    Parent

    Damn (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 06:02:54 PM EST
    should be the ONLY thing we discuss.

    Parent
    I have no reaction (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 06:20:46 PM EST
    ...and I'm pretty sure my Black friends have paid zero attention to it.  I don't care to speak for them, but that kind of news is not their thing.  Since the GS Warriors are the local team, that's just about the only subject of conversation lately.

    If the the woman committed some sort of fraud (other than fabricating an ancestry) that harmed someone else, I'm sure action will be taken.  Otherwise I don't have a dog in that fight.  It didn't affect my world in the slightest.

    NAACP was started by white people.  Don't forget that.

    Parent

    Happy to work with you Repack (none / 0) (#160)
    by McBain on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 01:49:27 AM EST
    As long you don't do the personal attack thing.

    Are you saying that we should not put people on trial if they have good lawyers?

    No. My point is it will difficult to convict either officer.

    Shouldn't the CRIME be the reason we put people on trial?

    I'm not sure a crime was committed.

    The police report said that the officers told Tamir three times to drop the weapon, and he did not comply. Since we know absolutely that the first shot took place 1.8 seconds after the door opened, that is clearly a lie.

    Was it "drop the weapon" or " hands up"?  I read they said "hands up". Do you have a link to the police report? Could they have said some of those commands before opening the door, perhaps over a loudspeaker?

    Do you believe video evidence of police lying has a place in the justice system?

    I believe cops lie all the time in reports and on the witness stand.  Because they are good it at, it makes convicting one difficult.

    Parent

    Here are points to explain (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 10:54:12 AM EST
    As long you don't do the personal attack thing.

    Read my posts.  Not my style.

    My point is it will difficult to convict either officer.

    I'm unclear on your "point."  Do you mean they should be immune from prosecution because it might be "hard?"  What DO you mean?

    I'm not sure a crime was committed.

    The judge who viewed the video, and who has considerably more expertise on what the law is, did not have any such problem.  He identified a number of crimes in ADDITION to the shooting, including the failure to provide any sort of medical attention to a shooting victim.

    Your point is moot.  The judge saw multiple crimes.

    Was it "drop the weapon" or " hands up"?

    Immaterial.  No matter what was said, Tamir had no chance to comply.

    I believe cops lie all the time in reports and on the witness stand.  Because they are good it at, it makes convicting one difficult.

    An evasion.  The question was whether we should believe a police officer whose sworn statement is falsified by video evidence he didn't know existed at the time he made the statement.

    In case after case of police shootings of unarmed people, mostly Black, video evidence has surfaced showing the police lied about the encounter.

    As you know, in court testimony, being caught in a lie affects the credibility of any statements by a witness.  Now we have an entire class of "witnesses" whose testimony has been shown to be false on any number of occasions.  At some point, police testimony must be taken with a considerable helping of salt.

    Parent

    I thought I was clear (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by McBain on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 11:40:19 AM EST
    If the grand jury decides to indict either of these officers, it's going to be difficult to convict them. Police are allowed to shoot people when they believe there is a  serious threat. The key word being "believe".  It's going to be difficult to prove the officers thought otherwise.  

    The Judge who recently gave his opinion on this incident will have nothing to do with the grand jury decision. It will probably come down to what the prosecutor wants, since he can greatly influence the outcome.

    Officers should not be "immune" from prosecution because their case might be difficult, but prosecutors should not bring forward cases they know they can't win. We saw such a mistake in the Zimmerman case. Trials should not be conducted to appease an angry mob.

    "Immaterial.  No matter what was said, Tamir had no chance to comply."  

    Doesn't sound like you know the facts of this case as well as you think you do.  I was hoping you had a link to official statements by these officers. I'm not convinced these cops lied about telling Rice to put his hands up. Even if they did, proving so won't be easy.

    All the points you made will go over better with a civil jury than a criminal one. Think about recent cases involving police shootings.  Don't get  you hope ups on a criminal conviction.

    Parent

    One thing is clear (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:33:37 PM EST
    Police are allowed to shoot people when they believe there is a  serious threat. The key word being "believe".  It's going to be difficult to prove the officers thought otherwise.
     

    Reminds me of one of the SCOTUS comments in Terry v. Ohio 1968, which is the pivotal case law for much of current enforcement.  The claim was made that the officer violated the subject's 4th amendment rights rights "...in good faith."

    One of the justices observed that there is no "good faith" exception to the 4th Amendment, because if all an officer has to do is claim his violation was in "good faith," the amendment might as well not exist.

    What you are saying is that as long as a cop claims he was "scared," he should be immune from prosecution, no matter what he does.  I do not think you want to give a lot of people guns and then indemnify them from the consequences of using them.  I think the consequences of a government agent using lethal force require a much higher standard than, "I was scared."

    You obviously do not agree.  End of discussion.

    I was hoping you had a link to official statements by these officers.

    I was hoping that you would do your own homework.  I was able to find several television broadcasts that repeated the police claims that Tamir had been adequately warned, before video surfaced that showed that to be a lie.

    In any event, it is clear that none of the officers involved in the shooting made any attempt to render medical aid to the victim.  Can we agree on that?  Can we agree that standing by while a kid lies bleeding on the ground a few feet away is not proper police procedure?  It's not like the officers didn't have a clue as to the nature of his injuries, is it?

    Think about recent cases involving police shootings.

    You mean, where an unarmed Black man is killed by police, and nothing happens to the officer?  Like John Crawford, shot wile talking on his cell phone in a store?  Like Eric Garner, whose complaints that he was dying were ignored?  Unarmed Black men shot in the back, Walter Scott, Eric Harris?  Freddie Gray, healthy before he was arrested, mortally injured after being taken into custody?

    These recent examples, which would not have been known to the public if video evidence had not contradicted police reports, show that police have literally gotten away with murder until everyone carried a video recorder.  Now that we know it, it can no longer be swept under the rug.

    I'm not convinced these cops lied about telling Rice to put his hands up. Even if they did, proving so won't be easy.

    Once again, they didn't know about the video when they made those claims.  The video makes them liars.  Do you believe the video shows evidence that they callously and deliberately made no attempt to provide aid to a shooting victim?

    Parent

    Response to Repack (none / 0) (#194)
    by McBain on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 02:16:02 PM EST
    What you are saying is that as long as a cop claims he was "scared," he should be immune from prosecution, no matter what he does.

    No.  You're not thinking clearly on this.  I understand your point and your passion but you're misstating my words.

    I was able to find several television broadcasts that repeated the police claims that Tamir had been adequately warned, before video surfaced that showed that to be a lie.

    You haven't convinced me they lied.  I would still like to know about the official statement.  Was it from the officers involved or was it from a supervisor/police chief? Where the officers able to communicate to Rice before opening the car door? I did a quick internet search but didn't find anything.

    You mean, where an unarmed Black man is killed by police, and nothing happens to the officer?

    Yes. For various reasons, cops rarely get convicted of serious crimes.   You, and many others, might not like that but it's the reality of the situation here.

    Do you believe the video shows evidence that they callously and deliberately made no attempt to provide aid to a shooting victim?

    I don't know what police procedure is for that sort of thing.  If it was a mistake, it could strengthen the Rice family's civil suit.

    Parent

    according to this news article, some people are getting prosecuted and convicted for what many of us do frequently--clearing our browsing history and/or cookies--even though one or more such persons prosecuted did not know of or in fact was not "under investigation" at the time . . .

    Mine clears automatically (none / 0) (#5)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 11, 2015 at 11:16:36 PM EST
    every time I close the browser.

    Parent
    Then let's hope that ... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:51:56 AM EST
    ... you're not the subject of a current federal investigation.

    ;-D

    Parent

    in that case (none / 0) (#14)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 04:20:03 AM EST
    you might wish to contact your congressman about the law that can swipe up innocent persons, and get them into nearly automatic convictions . . . if some prosecutor thinks he should have access to your browsing history and you did not know about it  . . .

    civil liberties--who cares?  It was the year after a terrorist attack when Congress wrote the law and who knows what they were thinking?

    Parent

    Or not (none / 0) (#143)
    by Yman on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:31:42 PM EST
    The law in question (Sarbanes-Oxley Ac) does not result in "nearly automatic convictions" for merely deleting browsing history.  It has to be proven that the person did so with intent to impede or stall a federal investigation.

    I'm not losing any sleep over deleting my browser history.

    Parent

    the news story indicates (none / 0) (#157)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:57:04 PM EST
    1 The provisions of the Sarbanes Oxley act were written to combat corporate accounting fraud of the type such as Enron;

    2) in 2010, David Kernell was somewhat obliged to plead guilty to breaking the law for having deleted his broswer and cookie history.  The fellow was a u of Tennesse student.  Prosecutors claimed that his browsing history would link him to some hacking scandal and/or crime.  At the time, he apparently did not know that he was under any investigation by the feds, but by deleting his browsing history, he is/was considered to have been destroying evidence anyway.

    Parent

    David Kernell was (none / 0) (#177)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 11:46:28 AM EST
    .....charged in October 2008 in federal court. After he was led into the court in leg irons and handcuffs, the judge released him on his own recognizance, pending trial.[1][2] The incident was ultimately prosecuted in a U.S. federal court as four felony crimes punishable by up to 50 years in federal prison.[3][4] The charges were three felonies: identity theft, wire fraud, and anticipatory obstruction of justice; and one optional as felony or misdemeanor: intentionally accessing an account without authorization. Kernell pleaded not guilty to all counts.

    Link

    Parent

    so . . . (none / 0) (#158)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:59:17 PM EST
    perhaps it is part of the law and I have not read that part, because I have not read the provisions of the law . . .

    but it appears that it is being used against persons who delete their browsing history without any knowledge they are under investigation . . .

    Parent

    Knowledge of being under investigation ... (none / 0) (#162)
    by Yman on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 07:55:34 AM EST
    ... is not an element of the law.  Section 802 of Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002 (in part).

       Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsified, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under Title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both
    .

    In the case of an anticipatory obstruction of justice, the government has to prove the actions (destroying record, etc.) were taken in anticipation of an investigation with the intent to impede, obstruct or influence that investigation.  In Kernell's case, the 6th Circuit ruled that here was sufficient evidence of this intent because Kernell not only cleaned his browser history but his hard drive as well, after he posted a message about fears of an FBI investigation.  Also, he didn't plead guilty - he was convicted of a misdemeanor at trial.

    Shorter version ... deleting your browser history per se is not a crime.

    Parent

    Further (none / 0) (#178)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 11:50:27 AM EST
    A jury trial, featuring the testimony of Sarah Palin and Bristol Palin, began on April 20, 2010.[3] On April 30, 2010, the jury found Kernell guilty on two counts: the felony of anticipatory obstruction of justice and the misdemeanor of unauthorized access to a computer......

    Kernell was sentenced on November 12, 2010, to one year plus a day in federal custody,[8] followed by three years of supervised release.[



    Parent
    Wow - congrats (none / 0) (#189)
    by Yman on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:51:58 PM EST
    You figured out one of the counts was a felony.

    Yawn.

    Parent

    the other thing (none / 0) (#15)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 04:21:29 AM EST
    some of you might wish to become more aware of FIJA . . .

    Parent
    All computers that have (none / 0) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:53:31 PM EST
    Access to anything 1st tier military do too.  My husband's laptop does.  The programming is part of the software for their ID card reader.

    Parent
    Warriors pull it out and are now even.... (none / 0) (#6)
    by MKS on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:28:38 AM EST


    That was a good win (none / 0) (#7)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:50:46 AM EST
    I'm not as big a Warriors fan as I was in the 80s/90s but this is still fun to watch.  I was also somewhat of a Cleveland fan back during the Mark Price years.  

    Parent
    The Titans earned the School's 17th trip to the NCAA College World Series since 1979 the hard way, with a come-from-behind 4-3 win in 11 innings over Louisville. Fullerton will be in the hunt for their fifth national title overall and their first one since 2004. They'll open against defending national champion Vanderbilt on Sunday.

    The other teams qualifying for this year's CWS, which is held annually at TD Ameritrade Park in Omaha, NE, are Arkansas, LSU, Florida, Virginia, Miami and TCU.

    Aloha.

    Yay!! My nephew just graduated (none / 0) (#16)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 05:56:30 AM EST
    From Cal Sate Fullerton. My brother and I both took classes there in the 80s  when we lived nearby. As I recall they usually did have a good baseball team. One kid I worked with at a nearby hotel was there on a BB scholarship.

    Anyway thanks for the heads up. Will be looking at that this weekend?

    Parent

    Supposed to be ! Not ? (none / 0) (#17)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 06:17:56 AM EST
    So we moved to Fullerton in 1979 and if they have been to the CSW 17 times since then it does track with my memories of it. Always good to confirm my faltering memory.

    Parent
    You missed your shot at passing along (none / 0) (#21)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:57:55 AM EST
    the possibility of history in the making at the College World Series this year as the Florida Gators take a shot at a diamond double, when they attempt to be the first college to win National Championships in both softball and baseball in the same year.

    Since the National Tournament in softball began in 1982, only three times has a school won a title in one sport while also having the school's other team advance to the World Series in their respective sport. All three, Cal Fullerton, Texas, and UCLA failed.

    One added fun fact for the Gators this year...a brother/sister act is trying for the double. The Gator softball 1st baseman (Taylor Schwarz) and the Gator baseball DH (JJ Schwarz) are siblings.

    Parent

    Gratz to Hogtown fans (none / 0) (#23)
    by ragebot on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:05:52 AM EST
    I give credit where credit is due and UF really beat my FSU team in the super regionals to advance to the CWS.  Best of luck to them.  Gratz to the Lady Gator softball team as well.

    I just want football season to start.

    Parent

    Today's "Are you really that stupid?" (none / 0) (#25)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:34:02 AM EST
    award comes to Florida (where it usually resides)

    Daneshia Heller, 19, called 911 seeking police help to complete a drug transaction.

    "He got my money and I want my drugs. Can you send an officer?" Heller asked the 911 operator.

    Heller was found with a small bag of the artificial street drug flakka in her pocket

    The amount of money Heller lost in the drug deal rip off? $5.00. She remains in jail without bond on the probation violation.

    Too funny,,, (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 09:19:59 AM EST
    but if you really think about it, it's the law that's really funny.  In a saner world with saner laws, one should be able to seek redress when a vendor accepts payment and does not deliver the goods or services.  Certainly not 911 or the police, but the Better Business Bureau.

    And what's really really really f*ckin' stupid is holding a 19 year old girl without bond over it.  Let's spend thousands of dollars over a nickel bag...brilliant!

    Not to mention cocaine prohibition is what brought us meth and this flakka crap in the first place.

    Parent

    Now kdog (none / 0) (#29)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 09:27:48 AM EST
    I was fully expecting a comment from you, but was sure it would be something along the lines of "the perils of dropping a dime on yourself".

    Parent
    Can't be a broken record... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 09:31:05 AM EST
    everyday CG!  Took a different angle this time;)

    Parent
    I was amazed (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 09:29:07 AM EST
    that nickel bags still exist.  Is it visible to the naked eye I wonder?

    Parent
    Don't know about the hard stuff... (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 09:34:15 AM EST
    but nickel bags of reefer are pretty much extinct, afaik.  Good luck finding increments less than a dub.

    I remember 3 dollar bags in high school...aka the lunch money special.  Talk about a pinner!

    Parent

    10$/g is about the price (none / 0) (#58)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:12:55 PM EST
    of Medical MJ here in CA, so 1/2 oz for 5$ is probably what we're talking about here.

    Parent
    Oh -- is this precious: (none / 0) (#26)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:39:16 AM EST
    (Sigh!) And speaking of race baiting ... (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 03:45:27 PM EST
    >:-(

    Parent
    Just out of curiosity (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:08:55 PM EST
    Why do YOU care?  I sure don't.

    Issues of police lying and brutality affect us all, which is why I pay attention to them even though I am not involved.  

    Her situation affects nobody.  If she can do the job, that is all that matters.  If she can't, she will lose the job.


    Parent

    For some reason (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:25:26 PM EST
    im liking her more by the minute.

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#147)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:57:57 PM EST
    Gee, I wonder why?   :-D

    Parent
    She lied to give her an edge (none / 0) (#137)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:13:37 PM EST
    in getting the job.

    Parent
    She's crazy (none / 0) (#138)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:15:01 PM EST
    Would you want a crazy pathological liar representing your organization?

    Parent
    Exactly (none / 0) (#145)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 08:47:08 PM EST
    She lied. She claimed that her father was black. How can anyone take her seriously?

    Parent
    She didn't lie to YOU (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 10:46:21 PM EST
    So why do you care more than the people she DID lie to?

    The organization has options, but they don't need advice from people with nothing at stake.

    I am amused by the righteous hand-wringing about an essentially victimless crime among people that conservatives hate against anyway, and whose actions do not affect them in the slightest.

    Kind of like gay marriage, isn't it?

    Parent

    typo "hate anyway" n/t (none / 0) (#154)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 10:48:02 PM EST
    Since you follow this blog you know (none / 0) (#179)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 11:56:03 AM EST
    I have stated numerous times that I am for gay rights including marriage.

    So quit making things up.

    And why is telling a lie about bank withdrawals a crime yet telling a lie on a job application to gain a  job not a crime??

    Parent

    Because that's not the law (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Yman on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:55:05 PM EST
    Anything else?

    And Jim is VERY big on gay right.  You should see all the (non-existent) posts on his blog on the subject.  Not to mention all the (non-existent) politicians he's supported who are pushing for gay rights.

    Parent

    Don't forget the sensitivity and empathy (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 01:17:10 PM EST
    he's shown on the subject of racial matters on this thread.

    Parent
    Which of the following is (none / 0) (#55)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:07:37 PM EST
    most enlightened?  Jeb, Marco Rubio or Nathaniel Hawthorne?  I vote for the later.  Hawthorne'x magnum opus, set in the 1640s, and written in 1850, is a sympathetic and compassionate account of Hawthorne's protagonist, Hester Prnne.

    Florida's "Scarlet Letter" law, allowed to go into effect  in 200l, by then Governor Jeb required unwed mothers who wished to put their babies up for adoption to buy and post details about their recent sexual encounters in the newspaper.  An attempt to inform the estranged fathers that their child was up for adoption so as to give a chance to intervene. The law applied in instances of incest and rape.

    The newspaper buy required the mother's full-name, age, weight, height, hair/eye color, race, child's name, birthplace and description of the possible father.

    Jeb did not veto the bill, but let it go into effect--although, in Jeb's book published way back in 1995 advocated for the public shaming of women who had babies "out of wedlock."

    Marco Rubio, then a Florida state legislator voted for this bill.  Jeb signed a repeal of this law two years later, in 2003, after successfully being challenged in Court as being unconstitutional.  

    Fast-forward:  Jeb said, while attempting to look presidential on a jaunt through Europe, that he has evolved since the olden days of 1995.  But, the evolution did not seem complete.  No word yet on Marco, perhaps when he returns from boating, but I expect him to plead ignorance of the Scarlet Letter--the book.

    Prediction (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:12:11 PM EST
    this us a real problem for Jebbie.

    I have thought it would be Walker for a while.   But THIS.

    Wow.


    Parent

    It's a Bigger Albatross.... (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:01:36 PM EST
    ...that George hanging around his neck IMO.

    I can't anything indicating if even one father was found, but I did find this:

    The Orlando Sentinel reported there were almost 2,000 more abortions in the first six months of 2002--after the legislation went into effect--than in the first six months of 2001.


    Parent
    I posted (none / 0) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:39:23 PM EST
    about this the other day. The Marco Rubio angle is new though.

    Parent
    Of the three, (none / 0) (#78)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:50:02 PM EST
    I would vote for Hawthorne, even though, technically, he is not eligible.

    Parent
    I was more of James Fennimore Cooper fan (none / 0) (#163)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 08:30:57 AM EST
    But Hawthorne is wonderfully imaginative...

    Parent
    Terri Schiavo told us all we need to know (none / 0) (#164)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 08:33:10 AM EST
    about Jeb.  He is a dangerously radical ideologue, his attempt to have a moderate demeanor notwithstanding....

    A true religious zealot.....

    Parent

    You know (none / 0) (#165)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 09:39:23 AM EST
    I wouldn't call him a religious zealot so much as someone who simply cannot stand up to evangelicals like his brother. But that's not an anomaly in the GOP. Not one person seems to be able to stand up to evangelicals or even worse than being unable they actively pursue the evangelical agenda.

    Parent
    Agreed. (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 02:24:33 PM EST
    I think that Jeb Bush is, first and foremost and like most of his family member who've sought public office, a political opportunist with no core values. Religion is merely a vehicle that he believes will get him to wherever it is he wants to be.

    Terri Schiavo's ultimate fate became a tool by which first Jeb Bush and then his brother George curried favor with the evangelical zealots of the GOP radical right. It was at once appalling, sad and embarrassing to watch both of them bend over backwards to kiss the religious right's collective ass the way they did.

    Jeb Bush was doubtless cognizant of the fact that by abusing the authority of the governor's office to wantonly interfere in what was clearly a private matter, he was both exploiting and exacerbating that family's grief and pain for nothing more than personal political advantage. He went ahead and did it anyway.

    And that to me was so completely unforgivable on so many levels, moral and otherwise, I believe that Jeb Bush has not only rendered himself inherently unfit to hold public office in any capacity, both now and in the future, but that he's also likely secured for himself a very special place in Hell.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I meant (none / 0) (#166)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 09:40:09 AM EST
    to add though in the end it doesn't matter whether they actively pursue the evangelical agenda or are unable to stand up to it because the results are the same.

    Parent
    English is a funny language (none / 0) (#169)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 10:33:48 AM EST
    but I can promise you Terri didn't tell us anything.

    Parent
    I'ms tarting to get really confused about (none / 0) (#59)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:17:57 PM EST
    Jeb Bush....all these stories like this about how his campaign has run off the rails...

    It hasn't even started yet, right? Is he running or not?

    Am I the only one (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:21:20 PM EST
    who wonders if Monday he will announce he is. NOT running.

    Perhaps wishful thinking.

    Parent

    If he really were smart, (none / 0) (#63)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:24:23 PM EST
    he'd announce a surname transplant

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:43:02 PM EST
    he's not going to announce he is not running. He's going to announce I'm willing to bet. He's too stupid or arrogant to not run.

    However I have to wonder when the donors are going to quit giving him money? The people that gave him money must not have vetted him much on the legislation he passed in Florida. And will the information that has come out on Rubio be enough for his sugar daddies to quit shelling out the money? No, telling there because Addleson was willing to keep Newt going for quite a while.

    Parent

    Marco Rubio's (none / 0) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 02:03:44 PM EST
    sugar daddy, Norman Braman, the billionaire auto dealer, will likely be undaunted.   He has too much invested in Marco.  In fact, Marco may be put up for the  2015 "Todd Akin" award.

    Parent
    According to the NYT, a classical violinist (none / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:23:05 PM EST
    Is charged in NY with seriously assaulting a woman whom he did not know in her hotel room. He was staying in the same hotel.

    Thought y'all might apprecate this quote:

    Mr. Arzberger said that he had been dismayed by how he has been portrayed in the media coverage his case has received. "I could be a rock musician or something like that -- destroying hotel rooms, or taking drugs or excessive alcohol," he said. "No, it's different."

     

    At least Franz Liszt (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:48:01 PM EST
    paid the hotel off before he ended his affair with Lola Montez.

    Parent
    Where's the segue? "Hotel"? (none / 0) (#102)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 03:58:59 PM EST
    If you know the story (none / 0) (#109)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 04:46:31 PM EST
    He also paid for the inevitable damages to the room that he knew that would she would cause when she woke up and discovered him missing.

    Parent
    Albert Woodfox will not be released (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 12:46:49 PM EST
    Oh man (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:01:10 PM EST
    I don't have any trouble (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:56:04 PM EST
    ...avoiding verbal stupidity of the sort these pols expose habitually when they think only their friends are listening.

    It's not that I assume my every utterance will be spread across the Internet, it's because try as I might, I can never think of anything to say that is as stupid as our latest but far from only example.

    I could work for weeks on being that stupid, and I still couldn't achieve this level of it.

    Parent

    It's a gift (none / 0) (#87)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 02:37:03 PM EST
    that some of us have been graced with.

    Parent
    Seriously (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 05:27:04 PM EST
    what did that even mean.  In what context was it supposed to be funny.  Verbal diarrhea.

    Parent
    I thought it was, (none / 0) (#125)
    by NYShooter on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 06:46:37 PM EST
    if not quite brilliant, very clever.

    But, what's puzzling is your comment. If you, admittedly, didn't understand what it meant, why did you immediately, pejoratively, smear it as "Verbal diarrhea?"

    Parent

    Help me out here (5.00 / 3) (#132)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:31:42 PM EST
    I thought it was, if not quite brilliant, very clever.

    What was the "clever" part?  Referring to a female associate as a "ho," or the pandering to a white racist's idea of how Black people talk?

    I have a lot of young Black friends.  They actually speak two dialects of English.  For public conversations and for conversations with me, they talk like English teachers.

    For conversations with their peers, they use a hip-hop jargon so deep that I can't begin to duplicate it, even though I understand it because I have heard it for a long time.  If I tried to talk that way, the conversation would stop while they stared at me.  They would know instantly that I was a phony, pretending to be something I am not.  I'm an old white guy.  I would never insult my Black friends by mocking their jargon.

    And that's how we know that the senator is a phony and a racist.  See how easy it is to spot when you actually know Black people?

    Parent

    Because that's what I think it is (none / 0) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:29:54 PM EST
    What was clever about it?  He in one fell swoop insults African Americans, women and on a sort of snide frat boy way jabs him for the gay rumors.

    I'm not a fan of Lindsey Graham.   I'm all for insulting Lindsey Graham.

    I just don't understand why that was funny.  To anyone. On the other hand it going to cause the speaker lots of problems.

    I guess I just think if you are going to invite hell to rain down on you it should at least be worth it by being funny.  I didn't think that was funny.  Or clever.

    I guess you did.  Wev.


    Parent

    Low whistle (none / 0) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:13:30 PM EST
    Obama's butt kicked to the curb (none / 0) (#74)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 01:28:44 PM EST
    Ex U.S. Army Doctor has $10.5M DOD (none / 0) (#88)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 02:39:31 PM EST
    contracts suspended for Nazi-esque training practices.

    During instructional sessions in 2012 and 2013 for military personnel, Hagmann gave trainees drugs and liquor, and directed them to perform macabre medical procedures on one another, according to a report issued by the Virginia Board of Medicine, the state agency that oversees the conduct of doctors.

    Hagmann, 59, is accused of inappropriately providing at least 10 students with the hypnotic drug ketamine. The report alleges Hagmann told students to insert catheters into the genitals of other trainees and that two intoxicated student were subjected to penile nerve block procedures. Hagmann also is accused of conducting "shock labs," a process in which he withdrew blood from the students, monitored them for shock, and then transfused the blood back into their systems.



    On, Wisconsin. (none / 0) (#89)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 02:40:06 PM EST
    Some feedback at the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal about the long-term effects of Gov Walker's war on the WI state university system.

    Yes and Wisconsin (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 03:41:09 PM EST
    is not Kansas--there is no compelling financial exigency. And, no real monetary savings in these efforts to destroy what took so long and so many to achieve.  It appears that the objective is to get back at the University, generally, and particularly, the Madison campus.

    Liberal thinking, and not just liberals, is the target along with the acquisition of knowledge that may not fit the Bradley Foundation or the Koch Brothers ideas of a business plan.  Pique adds the relish to the ideology--my bet is on the insecurity of his being a college drop out working with those who managed to complete their education.  Not being comfortable in the shoes he chose to wear will more than pinch the toes of those who footsteps follow his gubernatorial pillage.

    Parent

    Here's JMM's take on it. (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 03:58:11 PM EST

    At the end of the day, the people of Wisconsin aren't victims here. They elected Walker and his no less aggressive GOP legislatures. Indeed, they've reelected them, albeit in low turnout off year elections. But the University of Wisconsin is a great public institution. Indeed, it is one of the first models of the American research university, a model for research and higher education with roots in Germany but which took on a unique and ambitious form in the United States, particularly in its state university incarnation. Ivies get a lot of the glory. But even though the Harvards and Princetons and Yales predate these schools by more than a century in most cases, these glitz universities were themselves remade in the image of these flagship state research universities starting a bit over a hundred years ago.

    The country will get along okay without a great University of Wisconsin. But these great universities are public trusts. This really is pretty much like just lighting it on fire. Still, as I said, a great opportunity for pro-science states that want to swoop in and take advantage.


    Scott Walker and the Haunting Terror of Knowledge

    Parent
    Sounds like the Republican equivalent .. (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by desertswine on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 09:15:42 PM EST
    of blowing up thousand year old buddhas.

    Parent
    As I Hvae Mentioned Before... (none / 0) (#105)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 04:10:47 PM EST
    ...Tommy Thompson get way more credit than Walker for gutting higher education.

    Walker is just the result of TT, and uneducated electorate.

    They knew what they were getting back then and it's clear they wanted more.

    Parent

    Let us hope that (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 04:32:04 PM EST
    Scott Walker's presidential candidacy will be as viable as Tommy Thompson's bid in 2008.   Walker has been keeping his head down since his Harley ride to Jon Ernst's soiree. Jeb is stealing the limelight with his attempt to evolve from the recesses of the outhouse he found himself in this week, and, of course, from Lindsey's rotating first lady, as if on a bbq spit.  Sunlight is a good disinfectant, and Walker needs more of it.  

    Parent
    It's not just pro science states that will swoop. (none / 0) (#156)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 11:17:58 PM EST
    It's pro-science countries, like China.

    Parent
    New Horizons getting closer to Pluto (none / 0) (#106)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 04:16:25 PM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/q9xlufp

    The NASA probe recently sent back interesting images of the mysterious dwarf planet.  The best data will be sent around July 14th.  

    Federal prosecutors in the Hastert (none / 0) (#128)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:24:53 PM EST
    case have asked the judge to keep some evidence secret, apparently including the identity of "Individual A."  Hastert's attorneys have agreed.  According to the federal motion, "the discovery to be provided by the government in this case includes sensitive information and unrestricted dissemination of which could adversely affect law enforcement interests and privacy interests of third parties."  

    The pretrial discovery hase involves both sides exchanging information on witnesses and evidence.   It can be a customary approach, but with the Hastert case, it bears watching.

    Are they (none / 0) (#135)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:57:39 PM EST
    going to be able to keep individual A secret forever? It also sounds like individual A might be involved in some other operations with the police.

    Parent
    Jeralyn and other 'The Batchelor' fans (none / 0) (#129)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:28:03 PM EST
    There is a good new show called 'Unreal' on Lifetime that is kind of a satire dramedy about a Batchelor style reality show. From what I have read, it portrays a lot of the behind the scenes production stuff really well. You might not want to watch and spoil the illusion, but I watched the first 2 episodes and got hooked. Good cast and writing and production values.

    The first 4 episodes are streaming on Lifetime online in various ways, and the first 2 are cycling on the TV.

    Did you see Hannibal? (none / 0) (#131)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 12, 2015 at 07:31:11 PM EST
    Aaargh, not yet, forgot to record. Will set TiVo! (none / 0) (#167)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 09:44:02 AM EST
    OMG (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 10:16:07 AM EST
    so good.  You need to watch the first of the season too.

    I really love it.  So much I think I am just going to record this season and not watch any more till I get through the first two seasons that are coming from Netflix.

    Based on the two episodes I've seen it really seems made for binging.

    Parent

    The defeat (none / 0) (#171)
    by lentinel on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 11:29:03 AM EST
    of the trade bill is a good sign.

    It comes a little late - the awakening of Democrats who are actually Democrats - but still it is a sign of health.

    I also wonder whether this is a reflection of the power of Elizabeth Warren.

    Obama took her on - and was rather insulting and condescending in doing so in my opinion.

    And he lost out.

    When I mentioned the power of Elizabeth Warren, I am speaking of the power of her intellect - and her ability to communicate in a forthright manner. Apparently it impresses a lot of people.

    I know it has impressed me.

    My hope is that people in government and in the media can be inspired by her.

    Of course, there may be some way around this defeat for Obama's trade bill. The machinations of government coupled with corporate avarice is a powerful force.

    But I am allowing myself to bask in this victory, and hopefully a resurgence of progressivism - even if it proves temporary.

    Well (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:10:40 PM EST
    it tells me a few things. First of all I would imagine it is dead for a long time simply because the house is not going to pass it and the house is gerrymandered until 2020.

    Secondly the message I get from this is that the party is so over Obama. They're ready to move on.

    Parent

    Gee, one example of progressives (none / 0) (#204)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 04:00:18 PM EST
    gone wrong, vs. the unceasing attacks on Obama and the Democrats by Fox News since 2008 or so.

    False equivalency, Jim. Better luck next time.