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Freddie Gray Thread #3

By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Wed May 13, 2015 at 12:32:00 PM EST
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Here's a new thread for the continuing discussion of the Freddie Gray case.

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    Freddie Gray Thread #3 | 81 comments (81 topical)

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    Apparently (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Repack Rider on Thu May 14, 2015 at 12:34:32 PM EST
    ...the offense rests.

    Chip's probably just waiting for (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by Anne on Thu May 14, 2015 at 01:07:41 PM EST
    a new shipment of question marks and exclamation points...

    Parent
    Baltimore prosecutor (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat May 16, 2015 at 07:39:06 AM EST
    Mosby seeks gag order

    In a joint statement issued Friday, the defense attorneys said it is "imperative that the public understand the facts and the law beyond the bald allegations publicized by Ms. Mosby."

    The charges, the attorneys said, "have yet to be supported by a single piece of evidence. We have made one simple repeated request: Show us the evidence."
    Mosby's going to have to present her (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Anne on Sat May 16, 2015 at 02:34:30 PM EST
    evidence to a grand jury, which either will or won't decide she has probable cause for the charges filed, could decide not to hand up indictments on some of the charges, and could reduce others.

    Those decisions are expected in the next 10 days or so (the original preliminary hearing was set for May 27, so I would expect we will have something from the GJ before that date).

    I think people have forgotten that we aren't supposed to try cases in the court of public opinion; that Mosby announced the charges in public does not obligate her to present the rest of her case the same way.  And if the defense is going to persist in trying to poison the jury pool, a gag order seems appropriate.  If the shoe was on the other foot, I expect the defense would be screaming for a gag order, too.

    The defense will get to see the evidence, but in due course and in accordance with the protocol and rules for the process.  It's obvious to me that the point of their continuing to badger Mosby to disclose it is meant to make her look like she's not cooperating or is stonewalling, when in reality, she's not doing either of those things.

    The defense is doing its job; why are you so opposed to Mosby doing hers?

    Parent

    poisoning? (none / 0) (#18)
    by thomas rogan on Sat May 16, 2015 at 07:49:27 PM EST
    Do you kinda think that Mosby already poisoned the jury pool with her statements as she announced the indictments?

    Parent
    No, I don't. (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Anne on Sat May 16, 2015 at 08:09:03 PM EST
    But first, these were not indictments - they were "charging documents."  Indictments are the province of the grand jury.  In lieu of a grand jury, there would have been a preliminary hearing for the purpose of a judge determining whether the prosecution had met the probable cause standard for the charges.

    Now, getting back to whether I think Mosby's public announcement of the charges was for the purpose of poisoning the jury pool, no, I don't.  It was, as you know, a very high-profile incident, public officials such as the police commissioner had made many public statements about the progress of the investigation and the timeline for finalizing the report.  Everyone knew the report had gone to the SA's office, and the public was waiting to hear what the result of that investigation would result in.

    The people had been led to expect a public announcement, and that's what they got.  They got a reading of the charges, a request for calm, a caution that the case was not going to be tried in the public square, and a thank you to all the dedicated members of law enforcement.

    I'm not sure it's possible for a prosecutor to poison the jury pool more than years and years of not being treated very well by police, and that may ultimately be what moves the trial(s) our of the city.  

    Parent

    Of course she did (3.50 / 2) (#20)
    by McBain on Sat May 16, 2015 at 09:38:06 PM EST
    If this goes to trial they will need to move it to another county and sequester the jury.    

    Parent
    Uhoh (none / 0) (#8)
    by Jack203 on Sat May 16, 2015 at 10:16:28 AM EST
    Things will get worse for Mrs. Mosby before they get better...

    She has nothing and everybody (but some die hards) know it.

    Parent

    Nothing (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by FlJoe on Sat May 16, 2015 at 10:31:28 AM EST
    but a dead body.

    Parent
    Nothing (none / 0) (#11)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat May 16, 2015 at 01:02:35 PM EST
    nothing but a dead body

    So does the hospital down the street from you, but does that mean the nurses did it?

    Parent

    I am (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by FlJoe on Sat May 16, 2015 at 01:24:18 PM EST
    reasonably sure that any medical personal who left a serious injured patient lie shackled on the floor would face some serious sanctions. Am I asking too much?

    Parent
    Uhno (none / 0) (#10)
    by Yman on Sat May 16, 2015 at 10:32:09 AM EST
    Things will get worse for Mrs. Mosby before they get better...

    She has nothing and everybody (but some die hards) know it.

    Wow!  You know what evidence she has???

    Please share .. with links!

    Parent

    000 (2.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat May 16, 2015 at 01:15:47 PM EST
    Wow!  You know what evidence she has???

    Please share .. with links!

    Be glad to:

    000 -- Nothing Nothing Nothing

    And as far as "links" -- get your own sausage.


    Parent

    Sorry, not my job ... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Yman on Sat May 16, 2015 at 02:29:03 PM EST
    ... to back up someone else's fairy tale.  But I guess this means you also have no evidence.

    Shocker.

    Parent

    Apparently, Chip, no one's ever (none / 0) (#17)
    by Anne on Sat May 16, 2015 at 02:38:58 PM EST
    told you that your lower colon is not a research facility, so you probably ought not continue to keep pulling things out of it and trying to pass it off as fact.

    A$$opedia is not a recognized or reliable source of information.

    Parent

    Mosby (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by FlJoe on Thu May 21, 2015 at 04:06:31 PM EST
    gets Indictments on everything.

    some charges removed & new ones added (none / 0) (#45)
    by The Addams Family on Thu May 21, 2015 at 04:49:51 PM EST
    charges removed

  • Brian Rice: second-degree assault and false imprisonment

  • Garrett E. Miller second-degree assault and false imprisonment

  • Edward Nero: second-degree assault and false imprisonment

    • charges added

  • Caesar Goodson: reckless endangerment

  • Alicia White: reckless endangerment

  • William Porter: reckless endangerment

    • the rest of the charges appear to be those initially brought by the SA

    link

    Parent

    yeah (none / 0) (#48)
    by FlJoe on Thu May 21, 2015 at 05:26:30 PM EST
    I was watching live, should have added almost. Close enough for government work.  For what it's worth I saw zero evidence of grandstanding.

    Parent
    as you know, i did (none / 0) (#49)
    by The Addams Family on Thu May 21, 2015 at 05:33:12 PM EST
    as did commentators across the political spectrum, starting with that loony wingnut Alan Dershowitz

    but i hope the people who matter agree with you so that the case can go forward without jeopardy or interference

    Parent

    We (none / 0) (#54)
    by FlJoe on Thu May 21, 2015 at 06:06:52 PM EST
    should all hope these cases will proceed based on facts and judicial procedure rather than personality and innuendo.

    Parent
    Here is a complete list of the indictments: (none / 0) (#56)
    by Anne on Thu May 21, 2015 at 07:18:05 PM EST
    Officer Caesar Goodson Jr.
    Second-degree depraved heart murder
    Involuntary manslaughter
    Second-degree negligent assault
    Manslaughter by vehicle and gross negligence
    Manslaughter by vehicle criminal negligence
    Misconduct in office for failure to perform a duty regarding the safety of a prisoner
    Reckless endangerment

    Officer William Porter
    Involuntary manslaughter
    Second-degree negligent assault
    Misconduct in office for failure to perform a  duty regarding the safety of a prisoner
    Reckless endangerment

    Lt. Brian Rice
    Involuntary manslaughter
    Second-degree negligent assault
    Misconduct in office for failure to perform a duty regarding the safety of a prisoner
    Illegal arrest
    Reckless endangerment

    Officer Edward Nero
    Second-degree intentional assault
    Misconduct in office for an illegal arrest
    Misconduct in office for failure to perform a duty regarding the safety of a prisoner
    Reckless endangerment

    Officer Garrett Miller
    Second-degree intentional assault
    Misconduct in office for an illegal arrest
    Misconduct in office for failure to perform a duty regarding the safety of a prisoner
    Reckless endangerment

    Sgt. Alicia White
    Involuntary manslaughter
    Second-degree negligent assault
    Misconduct in office for failure to perform a duty regarding the safety of a prisoner
    Reckless endangerment

    Link

    Parent

    For those not sure what changed, (none / 0) (#63)
    by Anne on Fri May 22, 2015 at 06:29:03 AM EST
    for Brian Rice, Edward Nero and Garrett Miller, one of the two counts of second-degree assault, and the false imprisonment charges were removed.

    For all six officers, a charge of reckless endangerment was added.

    Parent

    charges (1.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri May 22, 2015 at 07:50:13 AM EST
    I'm surprised that Mosby didn't also charge them with speeding, jaywalking, double parking, failure to yield, eating donuts while on duty, etc, etc ...

    or are all those coming later?

    Parent

    Why (none / 0) (#65)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 22, 2015 at 08:06:53 AM EST
    are you so terrified of the justice system that you feel compelled to mock it?

    Parent
    I'm surprised you're still allowed to (none / 0) (#69)
    by Anne on Fri May 22, 2015 at 08:21:28 AM EST
    comment here.

    Parent
    And yet, unlike your silly charges (none / 0) (#70)
    by Yman on Fri May 22, 2015 at 08:56:53 AM EST
    ... a grand jury agreed there was enough evidence to sustain the actual charges filed.

    Go figure.

    Parent

    GJ (1.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri May 22, 2015 at 09:28:34 AM EST
    a grand jury agreed

    Ohh so NOW you defer to a Grand Jury.

    They were vilified for their Ferguson decision BUT somehow NOW sanctified for their Baltimore decision.

    Duplicity on display.

    Maybe she can charge these six officers for Mike Brown's death -- oh wait -- she probably already did in a backhanded way in front of the GJ.

    She probably also slapped some extra mayo and mustard on that ham sandwich before they rubber stamped it.

    Parent

    You are out of control. (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Anne on Fri May 22, 2015 at 09:55:07 AM EST
    But I guess acting out and flailing your rhetorical arms is about all you have.

    You don't seem to understand the process, in spite of numerous attempts to explain it to you.  You don't seem to have a grasp of the facts that are known, and have been regularly impugning the ethics and integrity of Mosby and her staff and ascribing nefarious motives to them from the beginning. When you don't have the facts, you make them up.

    A man is dead.  He didn't kill himself.  He did not sever his own spine.  He was in the custody of law enforcement who, in spite of video evidence that he was not irate, and in spite of his repeated requests for medical attention they denied him, stopped the van one block from the site of the arrest to further restrain Gray, making it impossible for him to have any control over his body in the back of that van, and then proceeded to prolong the ride by making more stops and then heading away from Central Booking to take on another arrestee. They then abandoned the ride to Central Booking and went to the Western District station that was 5 blocks from where Gray was originally taken into custody.

    All your talk of frivolous charges and donuts-with-sprinkles, and your breathtakingly ignorant questions, cannot and will not distract from the irrefutable fact that a healthy young man went into that van alive, and came out essentially dead.

    I know you think you are being oh-so-clever with your comments, but trust me when I tell you that your act wouldn't survive open-mic night at a fourth-rate comedy club for more than a minute.


    Parent

    Apoplectic Anne (none / 0) (#78)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri May 22, 2015 at 12:00:48 PM EST
    I'm out of control???

    I'm not the one who offered someone a donut to surrender his consitutional right to free speech -- and on this forum no less.

    Perhaps you can elaborate on why McCulloch's Grand Jury can be an open target for vilification by Mosbyites, and yet Mosby's GJ is above critique.

    And how can you be so apoplectic about how he died when the autopsy has not been released. Show me the document.

    We all want to know the veracity of reports that the ME was leaned on by Mosbyites to switch the COD ruling from  "undetermined" to "homicide".

    We need to check the document for erasure marks and the ME's arm for twist marks.

    After just one week of the McCulloch investigation the autopsy and other reports had been released to the public, and the public was kept informed all along the way.

    Mosby&Co&Anne should all take a lesson -- but they don't listen.

    Parent

    I predicted a few threads back (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 22, 2015 at 12:04:20 PM EST
    that as soon as she got the indictments the conversation would quickly move to the "prosecutor/ham sandwich" thing.

    Right on que.

    Funny.

    Parent

    The McCulloch grand jury? (none / 0) (#81)
    by Anne on Fri May 22, 2015 at 12:43:49 PM EST
    You have got to be kidding me.  That's your standard?

    I don't recall your being a defender of McCulloch or his methods at the time, but I guess this means you have come to agree with his decision to punt to a grand jury that decided not to issue indictments against Darren Wilson.

    Good to know.

    Oh, and I think you need to study up on free speech rights; the constitution protects people from government interference with their right to speak, and I am not the government.  

    And now you're smearing the medical examiner's office and making libelous allegations.  

    Yeah, you're out of control.

    Parent

    You should read slowly (none / 0) (#77)
    by Yman on Fri May 22, 2015 at 11:03:41 AM EST
    Hate to break it to you, but I never "vilified" the GJ in Ferguson.  But I guess these jurors missed your silly claim that the charges had no evidence to support them.

    Heh.

    Parent

    Why were the false imprisonment charges (none / 0) (#50)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 21, 2015 at 05:45:20 PM EST
    removed?

    Parent
    False imprisonment is gone (none / 0) (#53)
    by chezmadame on Thu May 21, 2015 at 06:03:11 PM EST
    CNN is reporting that this charge was "changed" to reckless endangerment.

    Was the "illegal arrest" count in the initial charges?

    Parent

    Those (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by FlJoe on Thu May 21, 2015 at 06:15:18 PM EST
    idiots are still bloviating about the stupid knife. One of the clowns even said the case revolves around the knife. STFU fools, this case revolves around a dead man, full stop.

    Parent
    It's confusing (none / 0) (#66)
    by CST on Fri May 22, 2015 at 08:15:25 AM EST
    Especially given that the "illegal arrest" charges remain.

    Parent
    I'm not sure they do; the original list (none / 0) (#68)
    by Anne on Fri May 22, 2015 at 08:19:29 AM EST
    I posted last night does show the illegal arrest charge, but what I'm seeing today does not.

    Parent
    Chip & Yman: get a damn room n/t (2.00 / 1) (#30)
    by The Addams Family on Thu May 21, 2015 at 01:20:07 AM EST


    Awwe ... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Yman on Thu May 21, 2015 at 09:31:48 AM EST
    You think people care about what you want them to do.

    That's cute.

    Parent

    Watch (1.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu May 21, 2015 at 10:44:06 PM EST
      The Baltimore Injury Fake

    Spot a camera & fake an injury.

    Then go to the hospital rather than to jail and collect a few $$$ from the police for injuries while in custody.

    Which has absolutely NOTHING ... (none / 0) (#62)
    by Yman on Thu May 21, 2015 at 10:49:41 PM EST
    ... to do with this case.

    Parent
    Donta Allen Interview (none / 0) (#3)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu May 14, 2015 at 04:49:15 PM EST
    Here is the full Jayne Miller/Donta Allen Interview done the day before charges were brought and right after the WaPo article came out.

    Is he believable.

    One thing coming from the interview is that Donta Allen and Freddie Gray knew each other. They were clearly not strangers.

    Underlying this interview is the claim that these two were spotted together doing a drug deal on the street that morning and then both ran.

    That's why Donta denied seeing Freddie that morning, claiming instead that the last time he saw him was the day before.

    And then Donta goes apoplectic in denial when told by a police officer that Freddie had swallowed something.

    Will Donta be the prosecutor's star witness at the Grand Jury Performance.

    Stay Tuned --

    Here's evidence: (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Jack E Lope on Thu May 14, 2015 at 05:14:37 PM EST
    Is he believable.
    ...
    Will Donta be the prosecutor's star witness at the Grand Jury Performance.

    ...which backs the idea that all those question marks were used up, frivolously.  Now, we have to settle for a period at the end of each question.

    Parent
    New shipment (none / 0) (#6)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu May 14, 2015 at 06:36:29 PM EST
    coming in next week --

    Parent
    Instructions (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by FlJoe on Thu May 14, 2015 at 05:37:47 PM EST
    on how to
    Stay Tuned --

    1. Purchase 100 ft of high quality, heavy duty foil, 18" wide (air and blockheads need 24")
    2. Mold closely to your skull( avoid ears, eyes and breathing passages).
    3. Pour a tall glass of kool-aid.
    4. Turn on Fox news, sit back and enjoy.


    Parent
    I'd like to know what some of the lawyers here (none / 0) (#12)
    by chezmadame on Sat May 16, 2015 at 01:05:49 PM EST
    think about Mosby's motion. Is it merely a typical strategy, are there real problems with leaks, or is something else going on?

    I'd also be appreciative if some of the experts weighed in with what's going on at this point in the process. I read a statement in the Sun from the prosecutor's office about concerns that the defense may be trying to hijack the grand jury process. Does this mean that the case is before the grand jury now or will it be at some point in the future? What authority (i.e. judge, grand jury) can we expect to hear from next?

    The media is useless in explaining the process to laypeople. They have no interest in it. I guess it's too difficult, too wonky, and certainly not explosive or exciting enough to get the ratings they seek.

    Here is the link to the response to (none / 0) (#21)
    by Anne on Wed May 20, 2015 at 07:43:23 AM EST
    defense motion to dismiss/recuse, etc.

    bounces ... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed May 20, 2015 at 09:35:34 AM EST
    like a pinball on a machine far past "TILT".

    Obviously the juveniles in Mosby's office know even less about how pinball machines work than they do about the law and the evidence.

    As if that was even possible.

    And yet, ... (none / 0) (#23)
    by Yman on Wed May 20, 2015 at 12:30:27 PM EST
    ... they're still light years ahead of you.

    Go figure.

    Parent

    Is that (2.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed May 20, 2015 at 12:50:14 PM EST
    the best you got, Klingon.

    Parent
    Nahhh, ... but it doesn't take much (none / 0) (#26)
    by Yman on Wed May 20, 2015 at 03:27:27 PM EST
    ... to poke holes in silly, specious claims made (as always) with no evidence, so I just conserve energy.

    Parent
    so I just conserve energy. (none / 0) (#27)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed May 20, 2015 at 06:40:00 PM EST
    so I just conserve energy.

    More not less energy conservation is in your future -- so embrace it.

    Parent

    Happy to (none / 0) (#28)
    by Yman on Wed May 20, 2015 at 08:38:48 PM EST
    I'll just keep mocking your silly, tinfoil theories offered with no evidence to support them.  As easy as it is, it's still a lot of fun.

    Parent
    As if (none / 0) (#29)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu May 21, 2015 at 12:00:14 AM EST
    you would recognize evidence when you saw it.

    Parent
    Actually, I would (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by Yman on Thu May 21, 2015 at 09:35:00 AM EST
    I'm a lawyer.  I've tried cases in SN actual courtroom, s opposed to an imaginary courtroom in my own mind.

    How about you?

    Parent

    New Freddie Gray video: (none / 0) (#25)
    by Palli on Wed May 20, 2015 at 02:36:50 PM EST
    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/sun-investigates/bs-md-mount-baker-streets-20150520-story. html#page=1

    A cell phone video shot April 12 first stop at Baker and Mount streets (1 block from arrest location.shows officers putting Freddie Gray in leg shackles and flexi-cuffs before putting him back in the van, head first and on his stomach. (Baltimore Sun)
    It shows:

    1.) Mr. Gray being placed into van face down while having breathing problems;

    2.) his body positioned so that any hard stops on the brakes and Mr. Grays head would slam into the wall of the van;

    3.) his legs hanging over the van back while he was being shackled;  and,

    4.) Mr. Gray is not moving.

    Why was there a stop at this location?  Lt. Brian Rice [supervisor of the arrest] directed the driver, PO Goodson,to stop  at Mount & Baker. Why was the recorder/witness [who is not publicly identified for his safety] threatened with a taser by Rice?  

    Doubling Down (none / 0) (#33)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu May 21, 2015 at 11:49:12 AM EST
    on a losing hand:

    Prosecutor Mosby Doubles Down On the Wrong Law

    Gray could have had knives (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Anne on Thu May 21, 2015 at 12:13:04 PM EST
    of all types and descriptions hanging off of him, in plain sight or hidden, and it wouldn't change the fact that he went into the van alive, and came out unresponsive, with no pulse, a severed spine and officially died a week later.

    There's no getting around that.

    And I notice you haven't commented at all on the latest video footage, or questioned why it is there's no video from the police camera right on the corner where the first stop was made to further restrain the legs of someone who - this is strange - didn't appear to be moving at all.  At that point, they were 4 blocks from the Western District Station: why didn't they just take him there?

    Parent

    The point of the article (none / 0) (#35)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu May 21, 2015 at 12:33:27 PM EST
    is that Mosby, and those in her office who draw the short straws, don't know the difference between a "stop" and an "arrest".

    Do you?

    Parent

    I'm pretty sure they do know the (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by Anne on Thu May 21, 2015 at 12:43:11 PM EST
    difference; what you don't know is the totality of the evidence, interviews and information about the events that Mosby's office has.

    Parent
    If they do, (none / 0) (#37)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu May 21, 2015 at 01:02:01 PM EST
    and this Response is their new position, then her office is going to have to refile its statement of charges from False Arrest to False Stop.

    And where is that autopsy???

    Parent

    I don't believe there is any (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Anne on Thu May 21, 2015 at 01:19:01 PM EST
    duty to disclose autopsy findings to the public at this stage of the process, not by the medical examiner's office and not by the Mosby's office.  I don't believe there is a duty to do so even when/if indictments are handed up and an actual trial begins.

    Just as you do not have a law degree, you don't have a medical degree, either, and you're not going to get one of either reading legal or medical blogs.  

    Parent

    from the Baltimore Sun (none / 0) (#39)
    by The Addams Family on Thu May 21, 2015 at 01:22:41 PM EST
    Should Mosby be on stage with Prince or in the pages of Vogue? No. But she should be working on the Gray case.

    exactly

    working on this case is what she was elected to do

    the glory will be hers if her office prevails in its case against the six officers

    & the opprobrium will be hers as well if her grandstanding, showboating & preening sink the case

    You left some things out: (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Anne on Thu May 21, 2015 at 01:59:49 PM EST
    Ms. Mosby didn't make any remarks at the Prince concert, and she didn't discuss the pending case with Vogue, but those sorts of things detract from the seriousness of her purpose.

    That said, calls for her recusal don't add up.

    And I would add this: from the outside, I think it looks like more than what it is.  For example, I didn't even know she had been invited to the Prince concert, and was not aware of the Vogue whatever-that-was, and I like to think I'm a reasonably well-informed person.

    Not to mention that for whatever reason, her public reading of the charges has stuck in your craw and you seem to relish anything - like the Prince concert - that allows you to keep painting her as a grandstander.

    And this: I think the paper's comment that "she should be working on the Gray case" is unwarranted.  Will she - should she - get the same kind of criticism if she's spotted out to dinner with her husband on a Saturday night, or at the playground with her daughters on a Sunday afternoon?  

    It smacks of the criticism Obama gets when he goes to Martha's Vineyard, or plays a round of golf: how dare he have any free time - he's supposed to be working!

    Whatever - we don't see this the same way, and I guess time will tell whether what you and I think has any validity.

    Parent

    well, no (none / 0) (#41)
    by The Addams Family on Thu May 21, 2015 at 02:55:13 PM EST
    my intended emphasis, & that of the editorial, was that calls for recusal & claims of conflict of interest don't add up, just as the editorial says - my link goes to the entire editorial, & my highlight is of the tag that precedes it, so actually, no, i didn't leave anything out

    my comment had nothing to do with Marilyn Mosby's leisure activities (apart from those that have been exposing her love of the limelight & her very poor judgment), much less with Obama & his golfing, nor do i think the editorial "smacks of" any such criticism

    it's crystal-clear what the editorial writer means by "she should be working on the Gray case" - the writer means that Mosby should not be recused & that all the moaning about "conflicts of interest" is bogus, just as the editorial goes on to say

    in fact, the editorial affirms everything you yourself have been saying except for this part:

    [Mosby] is now pursuing a gag order in the case, which is not only unnecessary but inimical to the public interest. Her rationale is that the defense attorneys are seeking to try the case in public and taint the possible jury pool -- which is more or less what she skated up to in her unusually impassioned reading of the statement of probable cause in the case during a nationally televised news conference.

    & because you disagree, you slyly attempted to smear the writer with a specious charge of dogwhistling - nice

    Parent

    Your intentions were ill-served (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Anne on Thu May 21, 2015 at 03:28:38 PM EST
    by your comment, especially given that you chose to end it with yet another reference to Mosby's grandstanding, preening and showboating.

    And I do not agree that the editorial writer's reference to what Mosby should be working on, placed as it was right after criticizing her for her appearance at the concert, was intended to reinforce the opinion that she should not have to recuse herself.

    I was not smearing, or attempting to smear anyone, nor was I dog-whistling anything.  I referenced Obama not because he's black, but because the expectation is that he can't possibly have a free moment.

    Parent

    "ill-served"? (none / 0) (#44)
    by The Addams Family on Thu May 21, 2015 at 04:35:42 PM EST
    well, whatever that means, i am capable of holding two ideas in my mind at the same time:

    1. Mosby should not be recused

    2. some of her public conduct, from her press conference on, has been not just unseemly but an actual threat to the rule of law

    Mosby's performance during her May 1 press conference certainly did, as you say, stick in my craw - if she actually has a case against the defendants, then she has been courting its failure with her unprofessional behavior, & that is what has this old hen's feathers ruffled

    Parent
    Ridiculous (none / 0) (#51)
    by Yman on Thu May 21, 2015 at 05:49:38 PM EST
    Prosecutors, like anyone else, are not required to work 24/7/365.

    Parent
    another red herring from you (2.00 / 1) (#52)
    by The Addams Family on Thu May 21, 2015 at 05:58:36 PM EST
    absolutely no one except Anne, through her own willful misreading, has said that the editorial calls on Mosby to work 24/7/365

    let me ask: did you even bother to read the editorial?

    & let me answer: of course not - why take time away from the perverse joy of stalking me?

    pathetic

    Parent

    Heh - now you're trying to speak (none / 0) (#57)
    by Yman on Thu May 21, 2015 at 08:03:20 PM EST
    ... for everyone, except for me and Anne.

    That's funny.

    BTW - I read the editorial, including the subtitle you included in your post:

    Should Mosby be on stage with Prince or in the pages of Vogue? No. But she should be working on the Gray case.

    To which you replied, "Exactly".

    The problem with this silly argument is that Mosby can do both - quite easily, in fact.  For the logic-impaired, doing an interview or attending a concert in no way prevents her from doing her job.

    BBTW - "Stalking"?  Heh.  Maybe you should learn how website comment forums work.  Or were you "stalking" me when you replied to me on the other thread?


    Parent

    I don't understand one of the indictments (none / 0) (#46)
    by chezmadame on Thu May 21, 2015 at 04:53:54 PM EST
    The Baltimore Sun is reporting indictments for "misconduct in office (eighth amendment)".

    What does the parenthetical mean? How were these particular constitutional rights violated in Mr. Gray's case?

    Could this possibly be a reporting error on the part of the Sun, or is there a rationale that I'm missing? I would have thought a charge for violating Freddie Gray's fourth amendment rights was more applicable/relevant.

    not a lawyer (none / 0) (#47)
    by The Addams Family on Thu May 21, 2015 at 05:10:18 PM EST
    but i'm guessing the relevant phrase would be "cruel & unusual punishment," which would seem to be consistent with putting someone facedown & in handcuffs & shackles & without safety restraints on the floor of a moving vehicle, especially if the motive was in any sense punitive

    Parent
    No lawyer but, I wonder if (none / 0) (#58)
    by Palli on Thu May 21, 2015 at 08:05:53 PM EST
    it means the cops conducted "cruel & unusual arresting techniques". POs are arresting officers (& holding tank jail guards) are not judges who pronounce "punishment" after judgement. Arrested citizens should not be subject to unwarranted harsh treatment [in other words, torture, before charges and trial]-that is not in a cop's job description-even if they think it ought to be or is.

    Parent
    Is it cruel and unusual punishment? (1.00 / 4) (#59)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu May 21, 2015 at 09:36:03 PM EST
    Is it cruel and unusual punishment to make an arrestee ride in the back of a van when he doesn't want to be back there at all?

    Is it cruel and unusual punishment to take an arrestee to the station for booking when he wants to go to the hospital for some R&R?

    Is it cruel and unusual punishment to force an arrestee to wear a seatbelt when he doesn't want to?

    Is it cruel and unusual punishment to force an arrestee to sit on the bench in transit when he prefers to lay on the floor?

    Is it cruel and unusual punishment to restrain a person from banging his head when banging his head is what he prefers?

    Is it ...?

    Parent

    Reading your silly, specious claims ... (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Yman on Thu May 21, 2015 at 10:47:20 PM EST
    ... phrased as "questions" is cruel and unusual enough,

    Parent
    You make a mockery of a (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Anne on Fri May 22, 2015 at 08:17:03 AM EST
    very important constitutional principle, demean the life of a young man who didn't deserve to die, and embarrass yourself and this blog.

    Parent
    Oh Please (1.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri May 22, 2015 at 09:12:35 AM EST
    Mosby&Co have made themselves a mockery with these frivolous charges and so have you for your defense of them.

    A van ride to the station without a seatbelt is Mosby&Co's idea of cruel and unusual punishment.

    They sat him up on the bench but he rolls himself onto the floor where he wants to be --

    and that's the basis of the Misconduct charge???

    Maybe they should have walked him there, or taken him there on their handlebars, or stopped along the way and bought him a donut to keep him quiet and his head from banging the walls.

    Of course if that donut didn't have sprinkles on it Mosby&Co&Anne would be accusing them of torturing the poor soul with such deprivation.

    Parent

    I'd buy you a donut if it would (none / 0) (#73)
    by Anne on Fri May 22, 2015 at 09:28:51 AM EST
    keep you quiet.

    Parent
    donut... (none / 0) (#74)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri May 22, 2015 at 09:30:08 AM EST
    with sprinkles???

    Parent
    I am (none / 0) (#75)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 22, 2015 at 09:33:10 AM EST
    sure glad you think the homicide of Freddy Gray is a "frivolous" matter. F the civility, you are disgusting.

    Parent
    Save (none / 0) (#80)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri May 22, 2015 at 12:05:10 PM EST
    the pretentiousness -- no one's buying it.

    Parent
    Freddie Gray Thread #3 | 81 comments (81 topical)

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