Tuesday Open Thread

Does anyone else find it absurd that Iraqi President Abadi flew to the U.S. in a Boeing 777? It's such a huge plane, how many people could he have brought along that he needs such a monstrous size aircraft? Maybe he has Joe Biden's entourage with him. What a waste of money. I hope we didn't buy it for him.

Twitter cleaned house of ISIS accounts again yesterday. It took ISIS minutes to get back on line with new names. It took me 3 hours to find the ones I follow for news. It's really aggravating that this is turning into a daily event.

I've got the jail today, so here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Someone should answer the question (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by CoralGables on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 07:44:12 AM EST
    No I don't find it absurd as to what type of plane the president of a country uses to travel across the globe.

    Yeah... (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 08:34:24 AM EST
    ...it's not like we have two identical 747's for our president and countless others to transport things like his limo, armored vehicles, fuel for everything including Air Force One, and everything else our president needs to travel.

    The current pair of 747-200's (none / 0) (#8)
    by CoralGables on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 09:18:10 AM EST
    serving as Air Force One since 1990 will be mothballed towards the end of the decade to be replaced by a trio of brand new 747-8's.

    When President Obama comes to Hawaii ... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 03:10:15 PM EST
    ... with his family for their annual Christmas visit, they fly to Honolulu, while that back-up 747 is parked 220 miles away in Hilo, where it awaits a call which will hopefully never come.

    Recently... (none / 0) (#101)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 12:38:27 PM EST
    ...and I want to say Africa, AF Two stayed in the air the entire time because they didn't want them both on the same strip and there was no other place to land safely in the area.

    Bought my house exactly (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 08:01:37 AM EST
    4 years ago today.  Moved in exactly one month later.   Smartest thing I ever did.

    You know Robot (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 08:36:19 AM EST
    i never thanked you for getting me fired.  I don't want to recount the story for, um, legal reasons but thanks!
    Seriously.  I was pi$$ed at the time but it honestly turned out to be one of the most fortunate things to ever happen to me.
    In the space of 48 hours one of the worst thing that ever happened turned into one of the best.
     A lesson for all of us I think about one door closing and another opening.

    I don't get it, Cap'n. (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 03:12:48 PM EST
    How is the termination of your employment not Obama's fault?

    You mean we haven't already shifted.... (none / 0) (#61)
    by unitron on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 12:10:16 AM EST
    ...to everything being Hillary's fault yet?

    There are Republicans who ... (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 01:53:58 AM EST
    ... are still blaming Jimmy Carter for lots of things, and their number includes someone who regularly posts here at TL. I'm afraid that their boundless hatred of Barack Obama will likely have a very long shelf life, and will probably outlive many of us. Such loathing doesn't have to make sense to still be real.

    Responsibility skips Repub. administrations (none / 0) (#133)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 04:54:51 PM EST
    We have a similar problem here on a local level.  It's stunning and infuriating how willingly people ignore what they don't want to see.

    And btw (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 08:41:18 AM EST
    even when I was pi$$ed it was at myself for doing such a dumb thing.  You had every right to do what you did.

    In fact, roles reversed (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 08:54:58 AM EST
    i would have done the same thing.

    I have no idea what ... (none / 0) (#17)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 12:16:55 PM EST
    you're talking about.  But I'm glad it worked out for the best.

    In my experience, things usually do.


    You once posted something I said here (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 01:10:40 PM EST
    on another blog.  And it came back to bite me.  Yes?  As I said, don't want to talk about it to much but I assumed you would understand.  That said, no real reason why you would because I never mentioned it until now.

    It's all good.


    Certainly. (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by oculus on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 01:12:55 AM EST
    Maybe (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 07:18:04 AM EST

    Hey lawyers (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 07:19:30 AM EST
    is there a statute of limitations on confidentiality agreements?

    Written agreements (none / 0) (#144)
    by MKS on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:09:39 PM EST
    have a four year statute of limitations for breach....I believe you were in California, no?

    Exceptions do exist....Often the four years can run from the date of the other party's discovery of the breach, although that can be bit murky.


    I'm glad everything is good ... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 02:13:46 PM EST
    and your house turned out to be a great decision.

    When you gave me a 5 (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 02:15:33 PM EST
    i thought it was because you understood what brought it on.

    I'm in the midst of a bunch of ... (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 04:45:00 PM EST
    deadlines ... I'm lucky to remember what brought on breakfast.

    What the heck happened? (none / 0) (#143)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:02:09 PM EST
    Heh (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:22:47 PM EST
    its a long and great story. Definitely worth telling.  I will think about ways to tell it without incriminating or exposing myself.  God knows you don't want me exposing myself.

    Thanks for the advise unthread mks.   I could probably be vague enough and still keep it interesting.  While I'm thanking people I should thank Jeralyn.  
    She responded quickly to a panicked email from me.  But alas the damage was done.


    Very sorry Capt (none / 0) (#149)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:57:17 PM EST
    Oh (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 09:28:36 PM EST
    dont be.  As I said, it's all good.   It has a very happy ending.  And some pretty eyebrow raising examples of my famous good luck.

    I'm interested to hear what happened also (none / 0) (#152)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 09:58:38 PM EST
    I'm glad everything worked out and your famous good luck held :) My good luck decided to stay in NYC, lol!~

    Do you (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 09:15:43 AM EST
    know Robot personally?

    No (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 09:20:58 AM EST
    not really

    Okay. (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 10:58:00 AM EST
    Just kind of sounded like it.

    I Hate Owning a Home (none / 0) (#16)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 12:14:34 PM EST
    I used to have a condo and life was so much simpler when you can cut a check every month and everything is taken care of.  Maintenance guy fixed things from light bulbs to pest control, whereas now I am cleaning gutters and fixing leaky faucets.  And while I am quite capable, I hate doing it.  And it's always something.

    But you cannot beat a little thing called equity.

    I am closing on some 'property' on Galveston Island on Saturday.  It's on the beach and about 10 miles south of the of Galveston.  It's not as glorious as it sounds, as it's a lot in an RV park, but the lady I bought it from wanted to get out after her husband died. So I am getting a nice Airstream in the deal.

    It's pretty dang cool.

    It about 90 mins from home.

    There was actually a 60 Minutes bit about it years ago about the last affordable pieces of paradise available in the US.  I want to say it was number 2.  Anyways I have thinking about for a long time and finally put the scratch together.


    Rockford lived in a trailer (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by caseyOR on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 02:07:43 PM EST
    at the beach. :-)

    Actually, his was more of a mobil home, not an Airstream, but still the same idea.

    Are you maybe going to get a Pontiac Firebird, too?


    Funny... (none / 0) (#34)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 04:09:10 PM EST
    ...I was this close (holding my fingers very close together) from putting a the Trans Am firebird on my black X5 hood and matching rims, maybe a hood scoop as well.  But I didn't want to mess with my resale value.  Turns out when you run them into the ground, they don't have any.

    When I was kid I loved that car and I thought it would look pretty sick to turn my BMW into one as close as I could.  I do have a black truck now, but that would be too hillbilly. I know, as if the other wasn't...


    It works for me (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 02:14:35 PM EST
    i think home ownership is a most wonderful thing.

    This is my second.  The first is always the best.


    We rented a house on Galveston "Island" (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 06:31:36 PM EST
    a few Christmases ago. Hardly anyone there. Miles and miles of sandy beach on the bay. Perfect.

    Actually, renting (by choice) is (none / 0) (#62)
    by NYShooter on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 12:11:39 AM EST
     a growing phenomenon. It seems that many people, notably seniors, and millennials, are choosing that route.

    For the younger set, it's mostly a narcissist sort of thing; Owning a home is hard, so many things to do......painting, vacuuming, mowing, leaf gathering, leaky faucets, and so on. And, no Mom to wait on you.

    For seniors, the example I hear most often is something like, "toilet plugged? sink leaking? pick up the phone, and call the landlord."

    Makes sense.


    "Vacuuming?" The landlord (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 07:38:11 AM EST
    comes over to vacuum?  Who knew?  I had no idea that if I rented, instead of owned, my home, I wouldn't have to vacuum...

    How about dishes?  Would I still have to load and unload the dishwasher or wash things by hand?  How about laundry - would I still have to do that?  And, golly - if I could give up cleaning bathrooms, well, that could be the thing that seals the deal.

    Not having to do those things would sure help me avoid that frumpy, dumpy washerwoman look that's so offensive - I could go full-June Cleaver (pearls and all!) if that's how this renting thing works!


    Don't forget, Anne, that all men (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 04:57:41 PM EST
    look like Caesar Romero when they get old.  

    I'm still waiting for the transformation.


    Ha (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:00:51 AM EST
    i believe that is a somewhat rosy description of renting.  Having done it most of my life.  

    Another thing is that around here, I don't know about other ruralish areas but I suspect it's the same, it is next to impossible to find affordable rental property.  When I decided I was coming back here 4 years ago I instructed my family to find me a house to rent.  I was amazed to learn that rental prices here were close to what the are in urban areas.  For example I could not find a house for less money than I was paying in either if the last cities I had lived in.  In part because the people around here who choose to rent are not, shall we say, the dream of society.  Plus the restrictions are fierce.  No dogs.  Often no kids.
    IMO renting sucks and those people who do it will ultimately regret not having a home of their own.


    Rents (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:19:40 AM EST
    are bad here in ex-urbia due to the housing crisis and so many people losing their houses and driving up the rents. Some friends just bought a condo in Florida because it was cheaper to buy than rent.

    I do have friends that prefer to rent though like Shooter says because they don't want the responsibility of home ownership and I can't say that sometimes as a homeowner I'm not a little jealous of the freedom they have that I don't.


    The Tightening of Credit... (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:21:03 AM EST
    ...increased rents substantially after the market failure and housing collapse.  For families that couldn't fit in an apartment, they went from owning to renting, but not by choice.

    Note I said house (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:03:50 AM EST
    i have not lived in an apartment in about 30 years and I can't even imagine it.  With the exception of the time I spent in Canada when I left my dogs with family.  
    Apart from dealing with noisy neighbors a yard is a requirement for me.

    narcissist thing? (none / 0) (#89)
    by CST on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 09:39:34 AM EST
    For most young people - I'd assume it's a money thing.  And the people who live with mom aren't really "renting" for the most part.

    FWIW, if I waited for my landlord to do any of those things they'd never happen (vacuuming?  really?).  We change our own lightbulbs and plunge our own toilets too you know.

    Honestly for a lot of those things the condo would be the way to go anyway - you own but have an association to take care of the landlord type things.  But the main reason for buying a condo (or renting) vs. a single family home again comes down to money.  For people who want to live in a dense urban area and don't have a ton of money, that's kind of the only option.


    When we had drainage problems a few (none / 0) (#150)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 09:13:15 PM EST
    Months ago my husband was pining for the days when you called the landlord and this wasn't his/ her problem.  But a landlord would have had to approve the putting in of those electrical outlets next to the toilets that allowed him to bidet the toilet attached to our bedroom.  I still avoid the thing.  It's too weird.  The seat is heated, that only happens at concerts and national sporting events....ewwwww.  He put the outlets in the other two bathrooms though.  He's waiting for Josh and I to "warm up" to the idea....ewwwww.  What's killing microbes on his bidet?  The sanitizer button?  Is that real, what if it is only really Japanese anime?

    Please tell me... (none / 0) (#153)
    by unitron on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 10:01:00 PM EST
    ...that those outlets are fed by a GFCI breaker.

    Of course, Alabama got code last year :) (none / 0) (#161)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 07:33:36 AM EST
    I think they even have their own separate GFCI breaker.

    Still (none / 0) (#159)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 06:35:05 AM EST
    not thrilled with the bidet? LOL.

    You Must Be Crazy... (none / 0) (#163)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 08:33:08 AM EST
    ...certain trips we have been on went from not being able to flush TP to bidets.  As a man, I was leery, but hot damn, beyond anything, it will get you squeaky clean, like fresh out of the shower clean.  I love clean.  The only negative I have, is that going back to the 'old' way sucks, big time.

    It never occurred to me that I could do it in my own home. Where in the H do I sign up ?  


    You sound exactly like my husband (none / 0) (#169)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 10:34:21 AM EST
    They make seats Scott that you add to your traditional commode.  I think we paid about $600 for it.  And you can have your seat heat or not heat.  There is also water temp control and a drying fan that you can make warmer as well.  And it is somewhat self cleaning too.  The controls are a little remote that you can hide from toddlers.  Someone must also be sitting before the bells and whistles work thank God :)  Otherwise my grandson would make me sorry.

    My husband had used them in Korea and there was no way he was going back to the stone age :)  The thing makes him so happy it's frightening.


    I Am All Over That (none / 0) (#172)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 11:06:56 AM EST
    I replaced my toilet a couple years ago and replacing it isn't an option, but the lid is.  I don't need all the bells and whistles, just on and off and life.  Thanks for the info.

    You need to take it out for a spin, kick the tires, and see what shes got.


    I have to mentally prepare myself (none / 0) (#174)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 11:55:42 AM EST
    After a lifetime of cold seat shock, it's hard to just go with the flow :)

    Just a Note (none / 0) (#78)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:23:43 AM EST
    I am not going to live there, I couldn't even if I wanted to, it's my weekend getaway, or what what my gf likes to call it, your clubhouse on the beach.

    Is the airstream yours? (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:33:33 AM EST
    i would so love to have one of those.  

    Oops (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:39:58 AM EST
    i see it is.  Envious.

    Maybe ISIS shouldn't (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 09:40:56 AM EST
    threatened to kill executives at Twitter in the first place.

    Just a thought.

    David Rockefeller was ... (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 12:00:12 PM EST
    in my dream last night.

    In the dream, I was staying a friend's house.  And David Rockefeller was also staying there.

    Two odd details:  

    When I met him, he attempted to intimidate me with a very strong handshake.  He was somehow able to exert this pressure just with his index and pinky fingers.


    When he left my friend's house, he put on a disguise, resembling a late sixties hippy.  Beard, long hair, shearling vest, bell bottoms and so on.

    This is my favorite political dream in some time.

    Almost as good as one I had in '92 featuring Ross Perot in which he claimed that the solution to all our problems would come from "mining the rings of Saturn".

    Well, at least now we know ... (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 03:18:21 PM EST
    ... what happened to that last tab of window pane.



    Cuba off terrorism list. (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by caseyOR on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 02:25:52 PM EST
    The White House has announced that President Obama will remove Cuba from the state sponsors of terrorism list. This is an important step toward normalizing relations between the U.S. and Cuba.

    And it's about d@mn time.

    As a resident of South Florida I'll second that (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CoralGables on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 03:39:46 PM EST
    "it's about d@mn time"

    This Texan Concurs (none / 0) (#35)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 04:10:19 PM EST
    something to cheer you up (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 05:25:18 PM EST

    The last male rhino placed under armed guard

    Thanks for that link (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by nycstray on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 07:19:58 PM EST
    Have you seen the video that shows what happened after the wolves were re-intro'd into Yellowstone? It's beautiful and I think everyone needs to watch it at least once a month, in hopes that finally everyone gets a clue.

    OMG thank you for that (none / 0) (#125)
    by sj on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:50:02 PM EST
    the wolf video was fantastic. Could bring a tear to your eye at the sheer magic.

    of wolves to Yellowstone, and appreciate the video, there are some who suggest the claims of the video are stretching the facts.

    Also, a minor issue I'm sure, but the video's narrator continually refers to "deer" however the animals in the video are actually elk. Which makes sense as the elk are the main prey species of the wolves, and elk are the animals eating the willows, etc., etc.


    Yeah, Real Cheary... (none / 0) (#95)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 11:35:49 AM EST
    ...knowing that species is basically gone.  No way it can recoup with only a single male.

    If only it was an isolated incident (none / 0) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 02:23:12 PM EST
    BBC last year

    The global loss of species is even worse than previously thought, the London Zoological Society (ZSL) says in its new Living Planet Index.
    The report suggests populations have halved in 40 years, as new methodology gives more alarming results than in a report two years ago.
    The report says populations of mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians and fish have declined by an average of 52%.
    Populations of freshwater species have suffered an even worse fall of 76%.

    it's possible but extremely unlikely (none / 0) (#109)
    by CST on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 02:36:26 PM EST
    basically in order for it to work the living ones would have to have no genetic defects.  Also, the currently living lady rhinos don't really seem interested in breeding.  But they are also trying to cross-breed with other rhinos I believe.

    Don't they have some in captivity (none / 0) (#112)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 02:53:06 PM EST
    that they are trying to bring them back with? Or am I thinking of one of the other 2 Rhinos?

    2011 (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 02:58:08 PM EST
    sad ignorance.  Still a bit more bearable than driving them extinct because some stupid old letch thinks it will give him a high hard one.

    It may have been a consumer rumour as much as a poacher's gun that finished off the last rhino in Vietnam. An investigation into the extermination of the animal has led back to a dubious claim - one that has gone viral in Vietnam in recent years - that powdered rhino horn cures cancer.

    The rumour, which has no basis in science or traditional Chinese medicine, is believed responsible for a surge in demand that is blamed for the loss of three rhino populations in the past year, a wildlife NGO claimed this week. It has prompted conservation groups to begin an urgent review of strategies to identify and affect trends in consumer behaviour.

    The Javan rhino was declared extinct in Vietnam last month after the last one was found dead with a bullet in its leg and its horn sawn off. This month, it was followed by Africa's western black rhinoceros and by warnings that the Sumatran rhino is on the brink of extinction in Indonesia.

    We can enter the traffic in rhino horn (none / 0) (#118)
    by jondee on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:23:04 PM EST
    and tiger parts under the heading of utterly insane things people insist on believing in against all evidence to the contrary..

    You Would Think... (none / 0) (#122)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:46:28 PM EST
    ...little blue pills would have given the Rinos a reprieve.

    Right? (none / 0) (#148)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:27:03 PM EST
    they are not endangered as far as I know and they have the added benefit of actually, you know, working.

    those are females (none / 0) (#113)
    by CST on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 02:55:19 PM EST
    I think they have 3-4 in captivity, and they are trying to breed them - unsuccessfully so far.

    Or some other kind of Rhino.


    No Point... (none / 0) (#164)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 08:34:57 AM EST
    ...in cross breeding is there, to keep half the DNA alive ?  They should clone them, but still not going to help the interbreeding issue with a single male.

    RIP Percy Sledge (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 05:52:09 PM EST
    Dead at 74


    When a man loves a woman

    A Whiter Shade of Pale (none / 0) (#106)
    by jondee on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 02:07:12 PM EST
    was the British psychedelic version of When A Man Loves A Woman..

    Percy Sledge was featured prominently in the excellent PBS docu about the history of Muscle Shoals studios. Anyone who likes American music should see it.  


    Hadn't heard that particular theory before... (none / 0) (#155)
    by unitron on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 10:41:07 PM EST
    ...and would never have thought of it on my own.

    Was there a psychedelic version of "Take Time To Know Her"?


    It looks like Dems rope-a-dope Corker Bill (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 08:00:35 PM EST
    It looks like disapproval of any deal will be subject to normal filibuster and veto rules.  In other words, Obama can veto any disapproval of  any deal, and 2/3 vote would be required to override.

    And, the time frame for disapproval--under normal rules--was shortened to 30 days.  Looks like Dems improve their position.   Looks like Corker was so desperate for a deal, he would agree to anything....ha! where have I heard that before?  

    Another one of those times (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by CoralGables on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 07:29:37 AM EST
    Where making secret recordings can come back and bite you in the butt...

    V. Stiviano loses a round in court to Shelly Sterling (wife of Donald). Stiviano is ordered to pay Shelly $2.6 million that she received in gifts from Donald (house, Ferrari, 2 Bentley's, a Range Rover, the list goes on) from money that was ruled to be community property due to the Sterling's 60 year marriage.

    Re: Tulsa Reserve PO "involved shooting" (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by Palli on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:54:56 AM EST
    [read killing] of Eric Harris:

    Records show that Bob "SoSorry" Bates most recent handgun qualification score was 76 percent in April 2014.  Apparently, if he "thinks" taser it is 100%.

    Tulsa PD consultant names a syndrome in which POs in high-stress situations experience diminished hearing and functioning. This explains the POs "callous" treatment of fatally wounded Erick Scott: they did not know he was shot.
    [Funny how PO hearing is impaired under stress but civilians must hear any/all commands from a cop with gun or taser aimed directly at them.]

    Supposedly Bates had been certified to use three weapons but [wonder of wonders]  the Sheriff's Office has not been able to find the certification paperwork. The .38-caliber revolver used in the shooting was Bates' personal weapon that he was allowed to carry on duty.

    Bates must have no tactile sensory perception because the taser was strapped to his chest and the gun was holstered at his hip.  [As a designer, I recommend the first exercise in LE weapon training should be: Close eyes and, with your hand only, identify which object is a gun and which object is a taser.]


    I think the most (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:59:24 AM EST
    disturbing part of this for most will be hearing that some silly old stoat can buy a spot on a police force when the clearly have no business in that position.  I have law enforcement in my family and I never heard of this.  I plan to ask if it's possible around here.
    Based on what I do know I would be shocked if it is.
    Will report.

    Police Reserve Volunteer Service (none / 0) (#105)
    by Palli on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 01:57:20 PM EST
    It seems to me the Reserves are another secret the LE community has soft-pedaled to the general citizenry- NRA members are more aware, no doubt. In fact, the NRA offers National Reserve Police Officers Association (RPOA)members free body armor.
    Also interesting: http://www.reservepolice.org website  states "Join the RPOA now and you will receive the best Disability and Accidental Death Insurance available.
     -Accidental Death and Dismemberment coverage maximum is $25,000.
    -Weekly Accidental Indemnity Benefit has a weekly maximum amount $200 for 260 weeks. That is a maximum of $52,000. (The weekly accidental indemnity benefit is in addition to any other Disability Insurance, such as Workers Compensation.)"  
    But no mention of Liability Insurance for "mistakes were made" such as Reserve "Officer related shooting" incidents.

    Also there is a Public Safety Volunteer Institute for training Volunteer Coordinators for Volunteers in Police Service, VIPS, Reserve's,  etc. http://www.psvi.org

    Apparently, it is a popular American hobby in some subcultures of America. Bet all their guns, travel, time & beer networking at cop bars is tax deductible too!


    You Forgot to Mention... (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 02:46:45 PM EST
    ...that he is 73 years old, was a reserve deputy, and that he donated a lot of money to the Sheriff's Department.

    The whole thing reeks of buying his way into 'Playing Cop for a Day".


    Or worse... (none / 0) (#167)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 10:25:03 AM EST
    buying one's way into a real life version of "Surviving the Game".

    Oh, and this too (none / 0) (#85)
    by Palli on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 09:10:01 AM EST
    Did you know, POs mistake their guns for tasters all the time according to Bates' lawyer. "Mr. Brewster, the lawyer for Mr. Bates, said his client was trying to do his duty as a citizen and a reservist. Mr. Bates made a mistake that law enforcement officers have made many times before"...

    The suspect (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 06:59:16 PM EST
    ...was under control, on the ground and struggling with two deputies when he was shot.  Even if "Special Deputy" Bates thought he was deploying a Taser, he appeared to be doing so just for the heck of it.  The suspect wasn't going anywhere, but maybe he needed a little "lesson" about running from police.

    The other deputies explained their callous disregard for the dying subject by explaining that they didn't hear the shot from ten or twelve feet away, close enough that they themselves were in danger from it, or Bates's apology that he had shot the subject.

    Bates is either completely incompetent or he is a racist who was having a little fun with a suspect.  Neither option is very flattering.  The other two deputies are clearly incompetent.  

    The TCSD needs to explain why Bates was there, and why they are not responsible for his conduct, since he was permitted to take part in the arrest while carrying both Taser and sidearm, and apparently arrived at the scene in an official vehicle.


    There's more (none / 0) (#145)
    by Palli on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:17:45 PM EST
    "Supervisors at the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office were ordered to falsify a reserve deputy's training records, giving him credit for field training he never took and firearms certifications he should not have received, sources told the Tulsa World.
    At least three of reserve deputy Robert Bates' supervisors were transferred after refusing to sign off on his state-required training, multiple sources speaking on condition of anonymity told the World."



    same old story: (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 05:04:00 PM EST
    While Jeb Bush was governor of Florida, state pension officials committed at least $1.7 billion to financial firms whose executives were "Pioneer" fundraisers for his brother's presidential campaigns. To achieve Pioneer status, the fundraisers had to amass at least $100,000 worth of bundled contributions to one of George W. Bush's campaigns.

    balance the death penalty (none / 0) (#12)
    by thomas rogan on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 11:36:49 AM EST
    One innocent person would be alive if this fellow had gotten the death penalty years ago


    and how many innocent people (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by CST on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 11:39:14 AM EST
    have been killed by the death penalty?

    A lot more than one.


    A few observations (none / 0) (#19)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 12:21:59 PM EST
      The number of serious violent crimes committed by violent offenders who have been released dwarfs the number of innocent people who have been executed. A magnitude of 1000x is probably a gross underestimate.

      That said, nyjets response is more on the money. I'd go a little further and say letting "the wrong" violent criminals out early is the problem.

      Of course, it's much easier to say in hindsight when the "wrong" ones were let out than to predict with much accuracy which ones will re-offend.

       This is not, in my mind,  a "death penalty issue" the huge majority of offenders including violent offenders do not receive death or LWOP.
    Some portion of those released, whether released "early" or after being denied any form of early release, will commit serious crimes following release. This link  is to a press release announcing  recent findings (the full report can be linked from that page.)

       Recidivism rates are troubling. Reasonable people can debate whether these findings lend more support to the position that longer sentences and fewer early releases are the answer or whether the better answer would be a combination of  reformed penal methods and the expenditure of more resources to prepare inmates for release with more training, counseling, treatment, etc. while incarcerated and the  continued provision of not only  services and supervision following release but programs to enable more released persons to obtain employment.

      Either approach would be very expensive and the relative increased costs are beyond my knowledge.

     As you might guess, despite the alrming recidivism rates, I support the latter idea. Even now, with poor "rehabilitation" services in prisons and  the lack of post-release services and opportunity, the stats show a minority of those released subsequently commit violent crimes.

      Released prisoners who were incarcerated for a violent, property or drug crime were more likely than other released inmates to be arrested for a similar type of crime. Regardless of the incarceration offense, the majority (58 percent) of released prisoners were arrested for a public order offense within five years of release. An estimated 39 percent of released prisoners were arrested within five years for a drug offense, 38 percent for a property offense and 29 percent for a violent offense.



    Fifteen Years Ago (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 07:42:09 PM EST
    ...I needed to replace former employees in my piano moving company.  I needed big men who spoke English and were American citizens.  I ended up hiring a couple of Black guys, both recently out of prison.

    Last year they bought the company from me.  They have a marketable skill, experience, contacts and a market niche.  Opportunity was all they needed, but it wasn't available to them when they were growing up in a traditionally screwed-over black enclave.


    An interesting in-depth article (none / 0) (#45)
    by oculus on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 06:36:27 PM EST
    about a model prison in Norway. Inconclusive re effect on recidivism rates.



    Yeah, I read that a while ago (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by NYShooter on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 12:32:07 AM EST
    Sadly, I think our country has gone too far down the cruelty, and basic sadism route for any kind of educated, philanthropic, experimental effort to take hold.

    My father was a psychiatrist, and did work for both the impoverished, mentally ill, and the State prison system. It was incredible how these poor, destitute, and impoverished patients & inmates reacted to the doctors, attendants, and their surroundings when they were treated with dignity and respect, as if they were educated, upper class, "somebodies."

    I'm sure you're aware of the many studies showing how students and teachers perform, based on their expectations going in. You know the story, tell a teacher that her class is comprised of low I.Q. dysfunctional outcasts, and, voila! They "graduate" as dysfunctional outcasts.

    And, vice versa, of course.


    thanks (none / 0) (#82)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:53:02 AM EST
     good article Two things jumped out at me:

    only around three-­fifths of the inmates are legal Norwegian citizens. The rest have come from more than 30 other countries (mostly in Eastern Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

      This is in a relatively homogenous nation where around 80% are ethnic Norwegians. So the 20% or so of other ethnicities are overrepresented in the prison population by a factor 2x. Even the most tolerant and "enlightened" societies have their disparities, it seems.

      The other was this very insightful quote from the prison system "social scientist" Kristoffersen:

    ... you shouldn't mix two kinds of principles. The one is about: How do you fight crimes? How do you reduce recidivism? And the other is: What are the principles of humanity that you want to build your system on? They are two different questions."

     ..... "We like to think that treating inmates nicely, humanely, is good for the rehabilitation. And I'm not arguing against it. I'm saying two things. There are poor evidence saying that treating people nicely will keep them from committing new crimes. Very poor evidence."

    He paused. "But then again, my second point would be," he said, "if you treat people badly, it's a reflection on yourself."


    I would think that unless your are (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 09:30:12 AM EST
    talking about life without parole:

    There are poor evidence saying that treating people harshly will keep them from committing new crimes. Very poor evidence.


    That's NOT what he said or suggested (none / 0) (#102)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 12:42:07 PM EST
      He said there is poor evidence that treating people nicely will keep them from committing new crimes.  

       You are attempting to counter him with a logical fallacy.

      If I say there is poor evidence sunshine can cure depression, I am not implying there is any, let alone better, evidence rain can.

      He also spoke as a professional assessing evidence and rather clearly said he wasn't arguing against treating them nicely.


    You do have trouble with reading (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:13:36 PM EST

    No one said that was what he said or suggested. There was no attempt to counter his statement at all. His name is no where in my comment. It was intended to be a stand alone statement.

    There is plenty of evidence available that harsh treatment of prisoners does not prevent or reduce recidivism. If you would like to counter that argument, go for it.

    U.S. Prisons Overcrowded and Violent, Recidivism High

    I don't wish to counter it (none / 0) (#127)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:53:37 PM EST
      but don't weael away from your clear intent.

      I will also point out the equally fallacious argument you now imply:

      U.S. Prisons Overcrowded and Violent, Recidivism High

      That A precedes B, does not prove A causes B.

      I'm the one who stated to begin that I support reform. I stated it clearly. I don't resort to the poor tactics that you like to use.


    Along with a lack of reading comprehension, (5.00 / 6) (#137)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 05:04:01 PM EST
    your mind reading skills are non-existent.

    No one questioned whether or not you supported reform or did not support reform. That premise DID NOT EXIST.  It is something that you chose to read into my comment. It existed only in your imagination. Your tactics consist of making sh!t up on a regular basis to compensate for your lack of reading comprehension and your habit of reacting in an aggressive manner whenever you imagine that someone is questioning your self image of superiority in all things. This trait of yours only displays how really insecure you are. The world does not revolve around you.

    Let me repeat this for you. My original comment had absolutely nothing to do with you. The fact that you chose to make it about you is your problem not mine.

    BTW, you might want to look up black and white fallacy, because that is what you have chosen to exercise. The original concept was not an either or situation.


    Some advice (none / 0) (#162)
    by Reconstructionist on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 08:16:02 AM EST
      If you want to retain plausible deniability that something you write is intended as a direct counter to a prior comment it would be a very good idea not to employ such a parallel construction that you even repeat the grammatical error made by a non-native speaker of English:

      There are poor evidence saying that treating people harshly will keep them from committing new crimes. Very poor evidence.

      Obviously, you did not intend it as a "stand alone statement" because then you would have phrased it in your own words. You might alos not that my pointing out to you the "cheap shot" nature of your retort was not based on my pride of authorship or anything else personal to me because you were reacting to Kristoffersen's words not mine.

      I just don't poor logic and I like blatant dishonesty even less.


    Oh for crying out loud (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by sj on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 12:26:00 PM EST
    She was riffing on your comment. Not everything is about you.

    Very sloooooooowly (2.00 / 1) (#177)
    by Reconstructionist on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 01:19:16 PM EST
      Of course it was "riffing on the comment." Which is exactly the opposite of it being a " stand alone statement" which was not a response to the comment. Which means he was being dishonest when he claimed it was not intended as a retort. You seem recognize that, yet still get it wrong.

       Second, it was not my comment. The comment was made by some guy in Norway. I merely pointed out he (likely deliberately) misinterpreted the meaning of someone else's comment.

       I fully agree it's not about me and I'm not the one trying to make it so.



    Very sloooooooowly (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by sj on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:00:17 PM EST
    You are the one who made it about your comment right there at comment #102. If you knew she was riffing you would have just let it stop. But no-o-o-o you had to twist the whole thing and take up a bunch of the 200 comments to once again try to put someone in the wrong and make yourself seem so much more intelligent than you actually appear to be. You seem to conflate education (and a particular kind of education at that) with intelligence, and sneering with wittiness.

    I guess that feeds your weak ego. But the pattern is tiresome. This time I wish you would just stop while the hole isn't too deep. But I doubt that will happen.


    Are the non-Norwegians in Norway... (none / 0) (#156)
    by unitron on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 10:41:41 PM EST
    ...mostly in the upper or lower economic brackets?

    Recidivism rate comparisons (none / 0) (#117)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:21:45 PM EST
    National Statistics on Recidivism
    U.S. Statistics

    Bureau of Justice Statistics studies have found high rates of recidivism among released prisoners. One study tracked 404,638 prisoners in 30 states after their release from prison in 2005.[1] The researchers found that:
    Within three years of release, about two-thirds (67.8 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested.
    Within five years of release, about three-quarters (76.6 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested.
    Of those prisoners who were rearrested, more than half (56.7 percent) were arrested by the end of the first year.
    Property offenders were the most likely to be rearrested, with 82.1 percent of released property offenders arrested for a new crime compared with 76.9 percent of drug offenders, 73.6 percent of public order offenders and 71.3 percent of violent offenders.

    there is another way to look at it (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by nyjets on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 11:42:22 AM EST
    She would be alive if he had stayed in prison.
    Letting violent criminals out early is the problem, not whether or not he had gotten the death penality

    OR (none / 0) (#58)
    by Palli on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 10:19:39 PM EST
    Making prisons more than cages.  

    She Would Most Likely Be Alive... (none / 0) (#94)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 11:31:31 AM EST
    ...if she didn't marry a convicted wife murderer.  Not to blame the victim, but when you loan someone money, who has bad credit, sometimes you don't get paid.

    Dumb... (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 12:20:08 PM EST
    ...as it was not a capital case and the death penalty was not an option.

    I am sure if we murdered all criminals, crime in general would decrease, but back in reality...


    The 12 four-sport cities (none / 0) (#25)
    by jbindc on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 02:19:30 PM EST
    A comparison

    At least my hometown of Detroit leads everyone else in hockey! Football, not do much.

    I was confused for a second (none / 0) (#27)
    by CST on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 02:35:55 PM EST
    Then realized you meant of the 12 cities and Canadians don't count.  Which is fine by me in hockey!

    Also the only city they didn't invite to that party was Boston :/ (the article writer was from D.C., 10 other cities contributed)

    So as a result, I'm gonna leave this here.  From the same newspaper.  And yes, I realize we're insufferable fans.


    I like articles like (none / 0) (#28)
    by jbindc on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 02:52:35 PM EST
    this one

    And the USA Today fan poll.



    I'll take any sports list (none / 0) (#29)
    by CST on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 02:57:06 PM EST
    that has Boston and Pittburgh on it and has omitted NYC (and LA).

    You can have your sports lists. (none / 0) (#36)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 04:21:41 PM EST
    L.A. has the Stanley Cup. One could argue that there's something inherently sacrilegious about that tacky silver chalice whiling away the hours at Hermosa Beach and Manhattan Beach, which is Ground Zero for the Kings' rabid fan base.

    However, there's a decent possibility that Lord Stanley might prefer a change of scenery this postseason, and instead head down I-5 to Disneyland and Anaheim. No doubt, Southland hockey fans are smacking their lips expectantly at the thought of reprising last year's classic postseason series between the Kings and Ducks, won by L.A. in seven marvelous games.



    something something (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by CST on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 04:47:16 PM EST
    it's baseball season, something something, superbowl, something something, the Celtics somehow snuck into the playoffs again.

    As an aside, I'm finally going to my first ever redsox-yankees game at Fenway this May.  I've been to one in NY, but never at home.  Pretty excited.  Although I'm going with one other Red Sox fan, a Giants fan, and a Yankees fan with a Joe Dimaggio tattoo who will be dressed accordingly.  And we'll be in the bleachers.  Could get interesting.


    Have FUN! (none / 0) (#46)
    by nycstray on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 07:07:38 PM EST
    Wish I could join you in my SF/NYY get up :)

    Nothing like a good rivalry game. All I can say is, Thank Dawg I moved back to an area with good baseball/football.  I'd be lost without a championship here and there, lol!~  I even have a list of cities I would be willing to move to for work (and yes Boston is on the list), all have sports teams that would make me able to watch the games. Voting blue and weather is also heavy in the mix . . .


    That sounds totally awesome. (none / 0) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 08:05:57 PM EST
    I envy you. I've been to several games at Chicago's Wrigley Field, but I've never been to Fenway Park. While I'm no fan of either the Red Sox or the Yankees, a trip to Fenway would be akin to a pilgrimage for this baseball aficionado.

    L.A.'s Dodger Stadium, which first opened in 1962, is now the third oldest venue in major league baseball, after Fenway and Wrigley. A number of other ballparks I've visited over the many years no longer exist, i.e., Riverfront Stadium (Cincinnati), County Stadium (Milwaukee), Metropolitan Stadium (Minnesota), Tiger Stadium (Detroit), the Kingdome (Seattle).

    Have fun.


    No Candlestick? (none / 0) (#53)
    by nycstray on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 08:31:40 PM EST
    I've been to Candlestick many times. (none / 0) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 09:12:19 PM EST
    But as of this writing, it has not yet been demolished. That day is coming soon, though I'm not sure exactly when it's actually scheduled.

    Old Yankee Stadium? (none / 0) (#60)
    by nycstray on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 11:37:48 PM EST
    my heart cries saying that one . . .

    And I thought they had brought down CS? I know they were selling seats etc . . .  memories of watching the Giants on field and the 9'ers on screen there . . .  oh yeah, and the wind picking up in the 7th . . .


    The one game I've gone to in NY (none / 0) (#90)
    by CST on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 09:49:21 AM EST
    was Sox-Yankees at old Yankee stadium the year before they got rid of it.  I felt I had to go once before it was gone.

    Too young for Crosley Field? (none / 0) (#57)
    by oculus on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 09:49:12 PM EST
    Crosley Field and Forbes Field were ... (none / 0) (#68)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:16:08 AM EST
    ... before my time. My only memory of Forbes Field is seeing the archival film of Bill Mazeroski's legendary walkoff home run over the left field wall in Game 7 of the 1960 World Series, which delivered an improbable championship to the Pirates.



    There's something (none / 0) (#39)
    by jbindc on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 05:04:07 PM EST
    Inherently sacreligious and tacky about LA, or any California city, having a hockey team at all.

    And sorry, while other towns may try to claim it, Detroit is, and will always be, Hockeytown.  Original 6. Longest playoff appearance streak of ANY team in ANY sport (24 years and counting). Most (US based) Stanley Cup championships at 11. A town where, not only is the National Anthem singer known by every man, woman, and child, but so is the Zamboni driver.  Flying octopi.

    LA?  Hah!


    First Kings game I went to (none / 0) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 05:36:50 PM EST
    my wife and I were enjoying ourselves and chatting with a friend when all of a sudden, in the middle of the game, the entire arena stood up around us and threw their hats onto the ice.

    What in the h3ll?! We had no idea what was happening.

    Some here are die-hard fans, most of us don't have a clue.


    And the Ducks won too! (none / 0) (#52)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 08:13:55 PM EST
    Hockey is a favorite around here--I have been told it is more accessible to new fans than other sports....

    Well, LA Kings are Stanley Cup winners (none / 0) (#48)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 07:56:31 PM EST
    and team of Wayne Gretzky.....

    And we don't need no stinkin NFL team (none / 0) (#51)
    by MKS on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 08:11:07 PM EST
    Gretzky never won a Stanley Cup in L.A. (none / 0) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 09:08:57 PM EST
    He was the Kings' highest-profile player in the latter part of his career and played for them in the 1993 Finals, which they lost to the Montreal Canadiens in five games. (Interestingly, that was the last NHL team from Canada to win the Cup.)

    Personally, I'll always associate Wayne Gretzky with that great Edmonton Oilers dynasty, which was absorbed into the NHL when the old WHA folded and proceeded to dominate its new league for the better part of the 1980s.

    Here's an interesting Stanley Cup note: In 2006, the National Hockey League was compelled to settle a lawsuit over the Cup's actual ownership and disposition, which had been filed by two Toronto businessmen who were also members of a local pickup hockey league called the Wednesday Nighters, in response to the league's 2004-05 lockout when no champion was crowned.

    The plaintiffs contended that Lord Stanley had originally donated the Cup to Canada as a challenge trophy in 1892 in order to foster interest in the sport throughout the country, and that the Cup's trustees had violated Lord Stanley's specific provisions thereof by subsequently awarding exclusive control of that trophy to the NHL, first in 1947 and then again in 2000.

    As part of that settlement, a stipulation was inserted the NHL's ongoing agreement with Cup trustees, which specifies that the Cup actually belongs to Canada and not to the National Hockey League, and further authorizes those trustees to allow other teams from other leagues to contend for Lord Stanley's ghastly silver hardware, should an NHL season ever again be disrupted as it was in 2004-05.



    jb, please see my comment in #54. (none / 0) (#56)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 09:43:28 PM EST
    The Stanley Cup actually pre-dates the NHL's existence by nearly two decades, and the trophy itself belongs to Canada and not to the NHL. (In fact, its original name is the "Dominion Hockey Challenge Cup.")

    The last non-NHL team to win the Cup was the Victoria (B.C.) Cougars of the Western Canada Hockey League back in 1925, when they defeated the NHL's Montreal Canadiens in four games.

    While I can appreciate your enthusiasm as a Red Wings fan, I think it's important to note that ice hockey is a quintessential Canadian sport which started in Quebec, and is therefore not of U.S. origin. And if we can't remember that, I'm sure there are any number of Canadians who'd be more than happy to remind us.  

    Further, I would also note that over the past decade since the 2004-05 NHL lockout, Southern California has hosted three Stanley Cup winners -- the Ducks in 2007, and the Kings in 2012 and '14 -- to Detroit's one in 2008.



    Like I said (none / 0) (#74)
    by jbindc on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:03:01 AM EST
    California only gas hickey because of northern and Midwest transplants.

    And it's sacreligious. Like hockey in Phoenix.  It's the desert, for goodness sakes!

    But hey, anyone can get on a streak for a short time.  Talk to me when LA has an almost 100 year history and such greats as Gordie Howe, Sid Abel, Ted Lindsay, Terry Sawchuck Steve Yzerman,  Brendan Shanahan, the Russian Five, etc.

    And since we weren't talking about Canada or Canadians - the original list was about US 4-sport cities and best sports fans in the US - who cares if they take exception?

    You can keep Tinseltown - I prefer Hockeytown.  :)


    Gas hickey? (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 09:21:33 AM EST
    I guess it's the phone again. LOL.

    I think I'll talk to you when ... (none / 0) (#107)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 02:21:52 PM EST
    ... the Red Wings get bounced in the first round. FYI, the NHL has been in L.A. for 48 seasons. Granted, during most of that time the hallmark of the Kings has been mediocrity and underachievement, but while growing up and in college I seem to remember a corresponding long and similar stretch of subpar seasons by the Wings, whose resurgence during the last two decades isn't exactly the unique and singular event you seem to think it is.

    And to think that you had the nerve to berate the Seattle Seahawks and their fans in these threads last year for adopting the phrase "12th Man." Well, at least the Seahawks acknowledge its origins and pay royalties to Texas A&M for its use.

    The Detroit Red Wings actually stole "Hockeytown" outright from tiny Warroad, MN, which had been called that for over 40 years. At least, the town was called that until the Red Wings copyrighted the name for themselves in 1999.

    Detroit's claim to the name "Hockeytown" can thus be succinctly described in one word:



    A Little Misleading... (none / 0) (#86)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 09:13:00 AM EST
    ...in that they are counting professional hockey as the NHL only.  There is an American Hockey League.  I know, but it's professional hockey.  Houston lost the team last year, but we did have 4 professional sport seasons.

    The one thing people used to talk about when I moved here that I thought was a silly myth that turns out to be so fricken true that I can't believe it.

    Houston is choke city USA.

    In 15 years and 4 professional sports teams, and not one championship team, even though they have had phenomenal seasons.  The best example is the Astros going to the World Series and getting swept.  For example, the Rockets are on a roll right now, tied for forth place in the NBA...

    Note, football and hockey haven't been here the entire time.  I want to say 13 & 11 respectively.  And if you bring the Oilers into the mix, it's even worse.


    The Houston Aeros were also a WHA team, ... (none / 0) (#110)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 02:40:24 PM EST
    ... until that league merged with the NHL in 1978. In fact, with the legendary Gordie Howe and his sons in the lineup, they were one of that league's marquee franchises, winning back-to-back championships in 1974 and '75.

    The WHA Aeros were the inspiration for the 1977 movie, "Slap Shot," which starred Paul Newman as an aging, Gordy Howe-esque veteran trying to turn back the clock and lead a group of brash young players.

    But alas, the NHL only accepted four WHA franchises in the '78 merger -- the Edmonton Oilers, Winnipeg Jets, Quebec Nordiques and Hartford Whalers. Without a league, the Aeros folded in July 1978.



    They Are Now... (none / 0) (#116)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:17:34 PM EST
    ...the Iowa Wild.  2013 was the last season here.

    How about your... (none / 0) (#168)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 10:26:18 AM EST
    adopted hometown Caps getting spanked by the Isles last night!

    khaki-pants types (none / 0) (#43)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 06:18:55 PM EST
    Former Philadelphia drug squad cop admits to taking cash and planting evidence for decades

    A disgraced ex-police officer testifying against his drug squad colleagues acknowledged on Tuesday that he stole drug money, planted evidence and lied on police paperwork too many times to count.

    Jeffrey Walker told jurors that the Philadelphia Police Department drug squad targeted 'white college-boy, ... khaki-pants types' who were 'easy to intimidate'.

    Would that be racial profiling or just pants profiling???

    Well, isn't it the same thing (none / 0) (#59)
    by Palli on Tue Apr 14, 2015 at 10:24:32 PM EST
    Lawless POs taking advantage of citizens less powerful than themselves. Main difference though- the cops don't kill white college boys.

    not so common, thankfully, but white college students do get killed by cops.

    Regardless of being white.


    This is What I Was Talking About... (none / 0) (#96)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 11:47:21 AM EST
    ...in that thread that was deleted.  I don't want to discuss, only mentioning it because you had asked for examples and I did not have time to provide them.

    referring to...

    Nevermind Then (none / 0) (#100)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 12:14:54 PM EST
    David Brooks on police cameras!!! (none / 0) (#91)
    by Palli on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 09:54:04 AM EST
    Basically, Brooks thinks:
    1.) "The cameras will undermine communal bonds. The cameras will undermine communal bonds. Putting a camera on someone is a sign that you don't trust him, or he doesn't trust you. [read Ferguson Report, Brooks] When a police officer is wearing a camera, the contact between an officer and a civilian is less likely to be like intimate friendship and more likely to be oppositional and transactional.
    1. "Putting a camera on the police officer means that authority resides less in the wisdom and integrity of the officer and more in the videotape.
    2. "Cop-cams will insult families. It's worth pointing out that less than 20 percent of police calls involve felonies, and less than 1 percent of police-citizen contacts involve police use of force.
    3. "Cop-cams insult individual dignity because the embarrassing [and crude racist, sexist, etc] things recorded by them will inevitably get swapped around."  
    Brooks poster adult for white elitist privilege.

    God Forbid... (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 11:52:11 AM EST
    ...cops act like decent human beings or be accountable, the horror...

    If cops can't use racist and sexist language how are they gonna catch the bad guys...


    I bet he doesn't feel the same way (none / 0) (#129)
    by sj on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:56:09 PM EST
    about CCTV cameras...

    Which According to the Story Below... (none / 0) (#130)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 04:12:59 PM EST
    ...is how they got Hernandez, his own security system which caught him right after the murder carrying something resembling a gun.

    blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah (none / 0) (#135)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 05:01:49 PM EST
    "my word as a gentleman should be good enough" blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

    There's been another major trial (none / 0) (#92)
    by CST on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 10:20:22 AM EST
    happening in Boston these days.  Link

    Former NE Patriot player Aaron Hernandez has been found guilty of first degree murder today, he faces a mandatory sentence of Life without Parole.

    "The Bristol County murder conviction is not the only legal trouble Hernandez faces. Hernandez also has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder charges that he killed two other men, Daniel Abreu and Safiro Furtado, in Boston in July 2012 in a drive-by shooting. He faces trial later this year. "

    It's Like a Movie... (none / 0) (#119)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:32:01 PM EST
    ...where you are like 'no way would a professional athlete would be in prison for something so stupid'.  It's literally unbelievable that a guy with so much potential would kill a friend over him talking to other people at the club.

    He could have a SB ring and be living a life most of us can never dream of.  Now he going to be in a nightmare most of will never be able to comprehend.

    That is a shame.


    When the english language and twitter go awry (none / 0) (#98)
    by CoralGables on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 12:01:52 PM EST
    The Senate GOP probably needs a new social media person for their Twitter account:

    Senate RepublicansVerified account

    150 years ago today, the first Republican President, Abraham Lincoln was assassinated. America is forever indebted.

    Cop Runs Over Dangerrous Man (none / 0) (#103)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 01:09:31 PM EST
    Basically a guy went on a crimes spree, including stealing a rifle from Walmart.  He threatened the cops, shot a round into the air, and threatened suicide.

    A cop in THIS video decided to run him over.

    I am mixed on this one, unlike the videos of recent, the guy is a clear danger and seems like running him over was better than shooting him.

    It's violent, and unorthodox, but got the job done and no one died.


    Yeah, I think it was better than the recent (none / 0) (#123)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:47:51 PM EST
    alternatives we have seen. I thought it was going to be the slow moving car with the dashcam that was going to hit him...then the fast one came in. wow.

    Is there any dash cam footage... (none / 0) (#154)
    by unitron on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 10:34:05 PM EST
    ...where you can actually see this guy holding the gun they say he had?

    And with that masonry wall right in front of him when he got hit, it's amazing luck no one died.

    But to me the big takeaway here is that apparently no one specific police officer was in charge in this supposed life and death situation, not to mention what seems to be a lack of previously agreed upon protocols for situations such as this.


    Yes there is footage with the gun (none / 0) (#157)
    by nycstray on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 10:55:18 PM EST
    and security camera footage with each of his previous 'acts' (including allegedly stealing the gun). I'll be curious to see how this shakes out. He looks to have the gun pointed up under his chin before he shoots it once in the air while walking away from the cops. Made me think of death by cop . . . . (we just had one here recently)

    I'm surprised he didn't die in that hit. D@mn, that was one serious HBC.


    Yes... (none / 0) (#165)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 08:46:20 AM EST
    ...there is footage of everything, from Walmart, to him firing the gun in the air, to him holding it up to his chin threatening to kill himself.

    But the more I think about the more I think the cop got really lucky in that the guy suffered minor injuries or no one walked out at a point when the car could not have been stopped.

    To me its very odd that the guy never looked back, had he at the right time that cops could very well be dead or he could have went into a home and a bad situation could have gotten worse, real fast.

    But I can't deny that everything worked very well.


    The S.C. Supreme Court on Tuesday (none / 0) (#104)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 01:48:49 PM EST
    The S.C. Supreme Court on Tuesday assigned a judge from outside the 9th Judicial Circuit to preside over every step of the criminal case against former North Charleston police officer Michael T. Slager.

    Third Circuit Judge Clifton Newman of Kingstree "shall decide all matters pertaining to this case" and will "retain jurisdiction ... regardless of where he may be assigned to hold court," Chief Justice Jean Toal wrote in the order.

    This made me laugh (none / 0) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:35:37 PM EST
    does that make me a bad person?

    DENVER (CBS4) - A CBS4 investigation has learned that two Transportation Security Administration screeners at Denver International Airport have been fired after they were discovered manipulating passenger screening systems to allow a male TSA employee to fondle the genital areas of attractive male passengers.
    It happened roughly a dozen times, according to information gathered by CBS4.
    According to law enforcement reports obtained during the CBS4 investigation, a male TSA screener told a female colleague in 2014 that he "gropes" male passengers who come through the screening area at DIA.
    "He related that when a male he finds attractive comes to be screened by the scanning machine he will alert another TSA screener to indicate to the scanning computer that the party being screened is a female. When the screener does this, the scanning machine will indicate an anomaly in the genital area and this allows (the male TSA screener) to conduct a pat-down search of that area."

    First I thought it was some kind of (none / 0) (#121)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:44:41 PM EST
    virtual groping...now I really don't get it...don't they regularly assign males to pat down males, and females females? Why would screener manipulation be needed for that?

    To Kick Out the Anomily... (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:53:55 PM EST
    ...basically the guy can claim "It's the computers fault it thinks a chick is a dude, but I gotta make sure, grope, grope."

    More importantly, why is the machine detecting sexual organs, are their transvestite bombers with fake penis explosives ?


    You misunderstand (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:48:55 PM EST
    understandably.  First we are taking about old fashioned hands on.  The guy tells the person running the machine it's a woman so that when the machine detects junk, because it's a man, down there a physical "inspection" is required.  
    And yes it's man on man.  Ahem.
    I have to say. As twisted as it is you have to admire the ingenuity involved.

    OMG, I am obviously way too ignorant (none / 0) (#170)
    by ruffian on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 10:44:35 AM EST
    of the worldly ways...that scenario never occurred to me. I have officially become my mother.

    I officially became my mother last night ... (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 01:38:14 PM EST
    ... when we were watching David Lean's 1962 classic "Lawrence of Arabia" on TCM, and I made the passing comment that they don't make films like that any more.

    Elder Daughter and her boyfriend looked at me quizzically, and then she smiled patronizingly and said, "You sound just like Grandma."

    I feel old today. ;-D


    If the correct gender was put into the system, (none / 0) (#126)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 03:50:51 PM EST
    no anomaly in the genital area  would occur and no pat-down would be justified.

    The system is only registering an anomaly because there is a penis where none would exist on a female.


    Maybe, (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by KeysDan on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 05:46:01 PM EST
    The TSA guy was just checking for weapons of a$$ destruction.

    You are on a roll (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by MO Blue on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 05:50:30 PM EST
    My friend.😊

    Aren't something like 4% of us (none / 0) (#171)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 11:02:01 AM EST
    Born a little ambiguous downstairs?

    I'm not sure of the (none / 0) (#201)
    by Zorba on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 04:08:51 PM EST
    exact percentage, but as far as intersex people are concerned, yes, there are a number of them, in a number of configurations and causations.
    Warning: this may or may not be safe for work, because it shows differing intersex genital configurations, but they are very simple drawings, not actual photographs.

    Creepy with a capital K (none / 0) (#147)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 08:25:01 PM EST
    but I stopped apologizing fir my sense of humor years ago.

    Ask kdog how he feels about some dude, (none / 0) (#158)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 12:58:11 AM EST
    in an absolute position of power, who grabs yer package.

    Kdog? (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 07:14:28 AM EST
    they were only doing the "hot" ones.  Any consolation?

    Yeah man... (none / 0) (#166)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 10:21:19 AM EST
    Almost 20 years ago now...some pervy pig stuck his greasy paws in my drawers on the side of the road...under the guise of looking for a nickel bag of sh*tty brick weed.  One of several "Guiliani Time" moments of my youth.

    Police, TSA, Corrections Officer...all perfect cover for serial molesters.  Using the priesthood for cover is sooo last century.

    Though I'd imagine I was a dual disappointment...not holding, and the Irish Curse;)


    A smart compassionate and smokin hot CEO (none / 0) (#131)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 15, 2015 at 04:16:40 PM EST
    I like what I'm hearing (none / 0) (#173)
    by lentinel on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 11:20:25 AM EST
    from Hillary so far - on the domestic front.

    But - not a peep so far on Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan... etc.
    At least - I haven't seen anything.

    Obama made a few nice noises in 2008 also - about leveling the playing field... redistribution of wealth... and the like.

    But with Iraq still raging, stuck in the mud in Afghanistan, and the inability to control a nutty right wing congress - and the compulsion to engage ISIS... not much has happened on the domestic front.

    In fact, the gulf between the richest and the rest of the country has widened since Obama took office.

    My point being that, even with the best of intentions, if Hillary were to be elected, and continued to pursue her apparent hawkish penchant to exhibit what she considers being "tough" ... we are going to continue the downward spiral toward total domination by the 1% and the allied corporate interests and her nice progressive words will ring hollow.

    Don't (none / 0) (#176)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 01:00:18 PM EST
    think that Hillary will operate like Obama. First of all she's going to campaign on a mandate for issues not on amorphorous "hope and change". Second of all it's not going to take her 6 years to realize that the GOP is full of nuts. Thirdly I seriously doubt she is going to fritter away an entire year getting one bill passed.

    However I understand the frustration of people who believed what Obama said and are now distrustful of anyone who promises something they like.


    I like Obama. I like Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by CoralGables on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 02:26:27 PM EST
    And I expect the continued improvement we've had since Jan 2009 if Hillary moves back to the White House in Jan 2017.

    Good Point... (none / 0) (#180)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 02:46:08 PM EST
    ...for some reason that never occurred to me.

    I am not convinced Obama doesn't think he can still compromise with them.  It's not it took 6 years to call him a Muslim, Kenyan, communist, terrorist sympathizer.


    Entertainment from the Lone Star State:

    Female CEO Says Women 'Shouldn't Be President' Because Of 'Different Hormones,' 'Biblical Reasoning'

    The good news is she said she will move to Canada if Hillary get elected.


    Oh, good (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 02:56:48 PM EST
    lord. By that same reasoning she shouldn't be a CEO of a company based on biblical principals.

    And the irony is the rough around the edges guy seemed to like Hillary.

    I'm sure she's one of those evangelicals who believe women shouldn't do certain things.


    Apparently women shouldn't be President (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by sj on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:02:37 PM EST
    but CEO is just fine. Apparently 'Different Hormones' don't affect CEOs.



    Didn't you realilize right off the bat (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by MO Blue on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:17:27 PM EST
    That the female CE0 was just a special case and the rulz just apply to everyone else. :-(

    I never realized (5.00 / 2) (#187)
    by CST on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:05:14 PM EST
    That testosterone as a hormone made people more honorable.

    Whenever this hormone crap comes up I just think to myself - yes, because testosterone is so much better.


    Yeah... (none / 0) (#190)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:26:00 PM EST
    ...we just send people off to die, develop weapons that can obliterate the human race, what's the problem with ?

    I just think it's rather funny that instead of just saying what she means, 'I hate democrats', she decides to go with the most vile thing she can think of.

    I bet she wasn't singing that tune back when Palin was in the game.


    yea (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by CST on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:37:29 PM EST
    whenever I picture an overly hormonal woman it's someone weeping

    whenever I picture an overly hormonal man it's roid rage

    Neither is great, but crying isn't THAT bad.

    And most of all, I picture teenagers, because the rest of us tend to have a handle on that $hit.  And no, I don't think teenagers should be elected president, for many reasons.


    CST, this is OT. (none / 0) (#197)
    by oculus on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:57:07 PM EST
    May daughter is flying to Boston this weekend to find an apartment to share. She starts a three-yr. D.Pt. program this summer. Any leads?

    entirely possible (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by CST on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 04:13:40 PM EST
    I have a friend who was looking for someone to move in May 1st in South Boston - would be with 2 other girls.  I don't know if they found anyone yet, and if they don't find someone by May 1st I'm sure later is fine.

    Also... I may be looking for a roommate soon.

    Otherwise there's always craigslist.

    If you want, you can e-mail me at corinini@gmail.com


    Last Week... (none / 0) (#202)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 04:10:51 PM EST
    ...I scared myself at the and level I hit at 8am while driving in. Sometimes I swear...

    Beyond hormones, ego to me is the number one driver of men.  They say it's why we got into Iraq, so W could show papa how it's done.  While women have them, they aren't anything as ridiculous as men's IMO.


    umm (none / 0) (#181)
    by CST on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 02:49:40 PM EST
    I hate to break it to you, but if you think Hillary will deliver 100% of everything she promises while campaigning... I've got a bridge to nowhere to sell you.

    Most of campaigning is outlining a platform/ideas of where you'd like to take the country.  Governing is a whole different beast.  So while I have no doubt she will attempt some of these things, I also have no doubt she will make compromises based on the political situation at the time.

    That's not an unreasonable assumption, and has nothing to do with frustration about Obama, just a recognition of the reality of federal politics.

    And that "one bill" was, to quote Joe Biden, a "big f*cking deal".


    My problem (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:00:40 PM EST
    with the ACA is that it could have been done in a few months instead of a year. Obama spent a whole year trying to get Republicans on board and moving the goal posts.

    And in that year he allowed the GOP to get out in front of it and define it. He never went on the offensive about his own bill.


    I Agree 100% (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 04:01:05 PM EST
    Obama and his kumbuya non-sense really dulled the teeth of that bill.  He was elected in part because of ACA and he acted like it was Congress problem IMO.

    I think if it came down to it (none / 0) (#188)
    by CST on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:07:31 PM EST
    Hillary may well have chosen to spend the year as well.

    Yes mistakes were made, yes she may have done things differently (perhaps even better).  But I don't think the fact that he spent too much time/energy on it is a good criticism.


    In principle I agree with you (none / 0) (#191)
    by sj on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:28:29 PM EST
    In this case, the year it took gave him too many opportunities to water down the result.



    to your point (none / 0) (#193)
    by CST on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:33:59 PM EST
    The Scott Brown special election certainly didn't help (sorry guys...)

    Honestly in the long run, an Obama-Hillary two-fer could do amazing things for healthcare in this country.  Because not only will she make sure it survives, but she's probably one of the few people we can count on to fight to improve it.  Which shouldn't take quite as much political energy as implementing it in the first place.


    Actually (none / 0) (#183)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 02:58:06 PM EST
    I don't think she's going to deliver 100%. Nobody can but she's going to campaign on issues. She's partisan. Obama was not. That's pretty much the difference.

    You appear to (none / 0) (#192)
    by lentinel on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:32:34 PM EST
    have missed my point.

    No matter what she promises on the domestic front, no matter whether she has every intention of trying to make things better for the "middle" class, she won't be able to do anything if she continues down the path of embroiling us in foreign military adventures.

    And, as much as I will accept the fact that she may sincerely want to living conditions for us, she is also sincerely ensnared in the Bush mentality when it comes to flexing our muscles, depicting adversaries in black and white, sending our drones and committing our troops and our money elsewhere.

    I would like to believe otherwise, but having observed and sometimes endured her performance over the last 15 years, I am extremely skeptical that she would be willing to lose the "tough" thing that she has crafted.

    And that spells disaster.


    Well (none / 0) (#195)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:42:16 PM EST
    yes, then I did miss your point if it was all about wars.

    But sometimes "hawkish" candidates can get away with doing stuff that other candidates cannot. I guess we shall see once the primaries and debates kick off.


    Will HRC have to debate against (none / 0) (#196)
    by oculus on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 03:52:29 PM EST
    that empty chair?

    That's not a nice thing to call Joe Biden! (5.00 / 3) (#200)
    by ruffian on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 04:07:50 PM EST
    Apparently (none / 0) (#199)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 04:03:38 PM EST
    not. LOL. O'Malley is definitely running and probably Webb too so far.

    HRC debating an empty chair? (none / 0) (#204)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Apr 16, 2015 at 10:01:03 PM EST
    No, she'll be debating empty heads, i.e., conservatives.