Monday Open Thread: Staying Safe

It is not true that the Coronavirus mostly infects old people.

For example, in Colorado, as of March 29, 2020, 47% of the 2,307 people afflicted with the virus are between the ages of 20 and 50.

According to the projected U.S. Census tables for Colorado, 36% of Coloradans are between the ages of 20 and 44. In 2017, 80% of women bearing children were between 20 and 44. [More...]

You don't have to be a statistician to realize that young children face a non-insignificant risk that one or both of their parents will be infected with the Coronavirus. Some of them will die.

We've been told over and over for the past month how to minimize this risk: Wash your hands and STAY AT HOME.

Update: Here are the latest numbers from CDC on age and mortality. It's true that deaths have mostly been among the elderly. But the number of hospitalizations from other age groups is not insignificant. Why take a chance? Please, let's not unnecessarily add orphaned children to the list of tragic consequences of the coronavirus.

[Thanks to the TL kid and TL granddaughters for letting me use their photos for this post, and to Mrs. TL Kid for taking the photo.]

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Sunday in Coronavirusville
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  • Display: Sort:
    I love that photo. (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by leap on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 03:58:38 PM EST
    Makes me smile just looking at it!

    Sweet kids. (none / 0) (#53)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:13:44 PM EST
    Try to practice social distance in your posting.

    Disturbing headline... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by jmacWA on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:08:12 AM EST
    but most likely true:

    Trump says Republicans would `never' be elected again if it was easier to vote


    It would (none / 0) (#24)
    by NoSides on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 12:58:36 PM EST
    be interesting if there was a concerted effort to get rid of the electoral college.

    In relatively recent memory, the elections of 2000 and 2016, the presidency was decided by a partisan supreme court, or the electoral college.

    In both cases, in my opinion, the voice of the people was not respected.

    Now and then I read of someone saying something about the electoral college, and then it dies off the pages. And nothing is done.

    So, we don't have much to look forward to.


    The Way Candidates are Chosen (none / 0) (#27)
    by RickyJim on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 02:56:24 PM EST
    is at least as bad.  Unrepresentative, hardly democratic procedures force the populace to end up deciding in November between two, often unpalatable choices.  A procedure where elected officials have the first vote, narrowing the field to 10 candidates, say, followed by a couple of runoff elections where the entire country votes, would lead to better, fairer results.

    My LTE (5.00 / 8) (#22)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 12:16:54 PM EST
    ...Ran in the local paper. Not related to any other current discussion.


    I find it ironic that big shipping companies who register their ships in every country EXCEPT the United States in order to avoid paying taxes here, have asked for federal assistance to offset their recent losses. Why don't they call Liberia or the Bahamas for it, since those are the flags they fly?

    RANT ALERT (none / 0) (#25)
    by ragebot on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 01:07:46 PM EST
    I know I got bashed last time I posted on this topic but I would love to see all the cruise lines go out of business.

    Every year all the big cruise lines are fined millions of dollars for dumping trash and human wastes in the worlds oceans.  When they hit port they all seem to have tour contracts that avoid helping the local economy and instead focus on hiring attractive English speaking guides who are often not from the local country.  In many cases these ships require dredging (read that as destroying the local sea bed) to get to the dock and dump the passengers ashore.

    All in all most of the passengers on cruise ships are examples of the classic Ugly American.


    I agree. (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:55:57 PM EST
    So does Maher (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:58:49 PM EST
    Agree, (none / 0) (#39)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 05:33:48 PM EST
    although have not observed the Ugly American syndrome when living in Key West.  Mostly older exuberant tourists, but unlike as billed, parsimonious---they buy a T-shirt and an ice cream cone and head on back to the ship.  Otherwise, spot on, from my perspective.

    They also destroy (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by ragebot on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 06:02:09 PM EST
    We're All on the Cruise Ship Now (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 07:01:54 PM EST
    And (none / 0) (#47)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 07:22:03 PM EST
    Captain Ahab/Bligh/Queeg is at the helm.

    The name is (none / 0) (#57)
    by ragebot on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 11:13:01 PM EST
    Yes. And please keep in mind that ... (none / 0) (#79)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 11:57:26 PM EST
    ... with one notable exception, the S.S. Pride of America (which sails around the Hawaiian Islands), as well as a few riverboats plying the Mississippi River, every single one of those large cruise ships is foreign-flagged to avoid U.S. tax and labor laws. Disney cruise ships are registered in the Bahamas. Celebrity Cruise Lines flies the flags of Liberia or Malta. Carnival Cruise Lines Flies the Panamanian flag. P&O Princess Cruise Lines are flagged in Bermuda.

    They're going to be asking for U.S. bailout money. F*ck 'em.


    Disney has been bribing the pols in the Bahamas (none / 0) (#80)
    by ragebot on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 08:28:22 AM EST
    for years.  The law is that a non US flagged ship can't go from one US port to another US port so Disney ships leave South Florida, go to the Bahamas and then return to the same port in South Florida.  Currently Disney owns two exclusive islands in the Bahamas where their cruise ships go.  No one but passengers on the Disney ships are allowed on the islands.

    Baking bread (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Yman on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:48:39 PM EST
    I don't generally bake much, but we can only keep bread fresh for so long and I don't want to go to the store for just bread, soooooo ... Almost No-Knead Bread it is.

    This is a variation of the NYT/Bittner No-Knead bread that was so popular awhile back.  If you have a dutch oven, it's super easy and really good.  I generally make 1.5 times the basic recipe  for a 7 qt. dutch oven, let the second rise happen on a long piece of parchment paper, then lower the whole thing into the hot dutch oven when it'sready.  There are lots of variations out there for whole wheat, sourdough, focaccia, etc.

    I love (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 05:44:27 PM EST
    Cook's Illustrated but love Cook's Country more. Any recipe from either one is pretty much never fail. I did not know there was a no knead bread. I may be needing to keep this in my brain for use at a later time. I do have yeast on hand.

    You have yeast?! (none / 0) (#31)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:52:13 PM EST
    The James Beard bread book (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 04:03:08 PM EST
    rocks. We've made a few of the recipes in there and they've all come out great.

    Whats better than a good fresh-baked bread?


    My son is a baker. (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 06:05:30 PM EST
    Last night he made corn bread.

    We have some yeast, although most of it is out of date (by several years).

    None of the stores around here have yeast.


    I am married (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:10:23 PM EST
    ...To a great baker.

    She made corn bread with blue corn the other night, tonight, Italian fagottini d'albicocca cookies filled with apricot jam tonight.  Clafouti after dinner.

    Making lots of soup. You can't buy chicken broth, but my 99 y.o. mother saves the bones from previous chicken dinners. I boiled them along with carrots, onion and celery, strained it, and it's richer than what you buy.


    Is it hard to find, now? (none / 0) (#55)
    by Yman on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 09:11:20 PM EST
    We usually keep some in our freezer - lasts a pretty long time that way.

    Definitely (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 04:15:41 PM EST
    Doing this

    I am still on the keto diet (none / 0) (#45)
    by ragebot on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 06:08:25 PM EST
    and find this a viable substitute for bread.

    Not to mention it literally takes a couple of minutes to make; 90 second keto bread.

    Down from over 230 when I was diagnosed with DTV to just under 170 now.


    Good for you! (none / 0) (#95)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:08:33 AM EST
    It's really a hard diet to stick to, but I agree the foods on it are filling. (meaning the bad keto foods like bacon and hot dogs and cheese and peanut butter).

    Not sure they are bad foods as such (none / 0) (#103)
    by ragebot on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    If you read the label on something like bacon it can be an eye opener.  At Walmart for example there are at least a dozen choices of bacon.  First thing to notice is the ones that say water added.  Without exception they all have tons of chemicals added with names I could never pronounce.  Same thing goes for lots of the more expensive ones.  Next thing I look at is if sugar was added (and not just for bacon it is shocking how many foods have sugar added).  There is only one brand of bacon I buy at Walmart and it is easily twice as expensive as other choices; but it does not have any sugar or strange chemicals added.  But truth be told I am now driving about 15 miles from Tallahassee to a soul food butcher shop in Quincy that sell even more expensive bacon that is better tasting and in my opinion better for you health wise.  Problem is I have to call ahead to make sure they have some since it sells out quickly.

    Same thing goes for lots of other foods; as an example hot dogs like Nathans or Hebrew National are way more expensive than the discount brands.  There is nothing wrong with hot dogs per se if they are made with good ingredients; but by the same token if you use strange meat parts and chemicals with long names you can't spell without help you probably should not eat it.

    Cheese is often preserved with chemicals as well.  I have also noticed some cheese has had starch added which boosts the amount of carbs in it.  But again if you buy the more expensive cheese with nothing added to extend the shelf life it is a good food.

    First thing I look at when buying peanut butter (I don't really buy a lot) is how much sugar is added; also look at the carb count.  It is shocking to see how many things like corn syrup (and a host of other tings) are added instead of sugar so the makers can claim no sugar added.  But it always shows up in the carb count.

    Bottom line is that not only does keto food costs a lot more to buy you also need to get up to speed on how to select the right products.

    A lot of critics of keto point out what they call "bad foods" are full of what they call high fat content that can raise cholesterol.  But they don't mention there is bad cholesterol and good cholesterol and if you pick the right high fat foods they will lower your bad cholesterol and increase your good cholesterol.

    The key for me has been finding foods I like to eat that fit into a keto diet.  The biggest problem is how much time, effort, and expense is required to put those foods on the table.  Not only is the shopping more expensive and time consuming but the time required to prepare the food once I buy it is a lot more than popping a TV dinner in the microwave.


    Peace to all my new and old TLers (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 06:01:21 PM EST
    Trump continues (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 10:50:10 AM EST
    to put his followers out on a limb only to have him saw it off.  Trump, now for way over two days, according to the hapless media, is "somber" and sports a new "tone".  Monday was the day Trump "became president", apparently supplanting the day  he became president when he shot missiles off into Syria.

    Georgia's Republican Governor, Brian Kemp, is now going to a stay at home, claiming news that asymptomatics may be transmitters was "revelatory", and a course changer.

      The Florida Governor  found his way off the beach, and the Mississippi Governor who in old timey days, like last week, proclaimed his state would "never be China" is now---China. Other lame excuses and lies abound.  Fox and other Trump media are doing pirouettes. However, if Trump decides to declare the all clear signal this afternoon, they surely have their Sunday-go-meet'n Easter clothes ready to go.

    Sh*t cried the King, and 50,000 subjects squatted and strained to their utmost, for the word of the King was law.

    Corona victim - Jazz great Ellis Marsalis, 85.. (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by desertswine on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 03:22:16 PM EST
    father of Wynton and Branford Marsalis.

    Branford said in a statement: "My dad was a giant of a musician and teacher, but an even greater father. He poured everything he had into making us the best of what we could be. My friend and Harvard Law professor David Wilkins just sent me the following text: `We can all marvel at the sheer audacity of a man who believed he could teach his black boys to be excellent in a world that denied that very possibility, and then watch them go on to redefine what excellence means for all time.'"

    I don't think (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 02:23:10 PM EST
    it's that it doesn't affect young people. The thought is that young people don't die from coronavirus.

    The permanent lung damage (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 09:24:07 PM EST
    does give one pause.....and for a young person to have permanently damaged lungs....

    That appears to be (none / 0) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 06:06:21 AM EST
    debatable. No one is really sure that the lung damage lasts in all patients from what I have read. Certainly there is short term.

    Unless they have (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 02:46:23 PM EST
    pre-existing health conditions, see this ABC news article from yesterday.

    The number of deaths so far (none / 0) (#3)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 02:50:34 PM EST
    is small, but here's a graph from CDC showing hospitalizations by age from the virus

    That is really helpful info (none / 0) (#11)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 09:29:39 PM EST
    That graph really summarizes the key information--hospital admissions, ICU admissions, and deaths....

    Positive test results do not tell us all that much because it would include asymptomatic people and is dependent on the level of testing.  Counting those in hospital beds is where it gets real and is not open to a lot of subjective interpretation.


    The infant in Chicago (none / 0) (#48)
    by Towanda on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:02:00 PM EST
    who had covid-19  and died is reported to have had no health conditions.

    The four-year-old girl in Milwaukee who died due to covid-19 is reported to have had no health conditions.

    I wonder if the virus is morphing. Or if the Chinese, whose problematic reporting in other ways  led to the thinking that  only the elderly died of covid-19, also misreported on this.


    I actually (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:06:06 PM EST
    wondered why they were reporting about how it didn't affect children at first especially since children are more susceptible to this kind of thing than many adults.

    And yet here in GA we have great resistance still to doing anything. Mainly because it hasn't killed enough people yet it seems.


    The Young Have Died (none / 0) (#94)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:05:10 AM EST
    Via CNN: Healthy 30 year old dies from Virus

    Ben Luderer, a 30-year-old New Jersey teacher and coach, passed away only days after contracting coronavirus. Brandy Luderer, his wife, shares the heartbreaking details with CNN's Alisyn Camerota.


    We've still a way to go... (none / 0) (#4)
    by desertswine on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 03:23:12 PM EST
    for the worst yet to come.  The peak day for the US is projected to be April 15.
    For New Mexico its April 30.
    For Colorado it looks like April 17.
    According to this site.

    April 24th (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 04:14:34 PM EST
    here in GA. NY and MI are hitting peak next week. NY may even be this week.

    the orange clown (none / 0) (#5)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 03:34:52 PM EST
    is already doing an end zone dance at his success at only having 100,000 to 200,000 dead Americans.

    This is a big deal (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 07:17:31 PM EST
    I hope it's not delayed again because of this crisis or the next.  Or the next.

    It's been delayed and delayed.  Mostly Trump nonsense like the Space Farce

    In Exactly A Year Our Knowledge Of The Cosmos Will Change Forever. This Is The $10 Billion Reason

    In precisely one year--on Tuesday, March 30, 2021--the almost US$10 billion James Webb Space Telescope (JWST or "Webb" for short) will launch on a European Ariane 5 rocket from the Guiana Space Centre to the northwest of Kourou in French Guiana.

    Will COVID-19 delay the launch of Webb?
    It's highly possible. Originally conceived in the 1990s and at first expected to launch in 2007, Webb has been beset by delays--the latest being COVID-19--but at the time of writing the massive telescope was safely in its cleanroom at Northrop Grumman in Redondo Beach, California, and March 30, 2021, was still the target date for Webb's launch. However, there could be an announcement on April 15, 2020 about a new schedule.

    Space Farce (none / 0) (#12)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 09:34:19 PM EST
    Uhmm, not really a typo at all.....

    Not a typo (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 09:03:00 AM EST
    For once

    Remember this? (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 08:34:38 PM EST
    Those blue eyes (none / 0) (#13)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 30, 2020 at 09:35:31 PM EST
    really stand out.....

    Our case numbers in Hawaii have escalated ... (none / 0) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 02:18:48 AM EST
    ... from 26 to 204 in a week's time, with 55 determined to be recovered. The overwhelming number of new cases are on Oahu; here on the Big Island we've had 15 diagnoses thus far, including three today. Our surge in new cases diagnosed is expected to peak in either late April or early May.

    Hang in there, everyone.

    Power corrupts... (none / 0) (#16)
    by NoSides on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 07:43:10 AM EST
    Edward Snowden was quoted today as saying, ""The emergency tends to be expanded. Then the authorities become comfortable with some new power. They start to like it."

    The government has been manifestly incompetent in preparing for this pandemic.

    Still no masks.
    Still a shortage of tests - except it seems for the well-connected.
    Hospital workers in NYC wearing garbage bags because of a shortage of hospital gowns.

    But what is for sure is that the government, and governments around the world, have managed to affect each of our lives. We cannot leave our homes. Some here in the land of the free threaten jail time if people venture out.

    As Snowden says, the people in power, once they are granted even more power, start to like it.

    I have yet to see politicians willingly give up power once they have been given it - or taken it on the pretext of an emergency.

    The "patriot act" is an example.
    It will never go away.
    It isn't even a subject for discussion anymore.
    They rubber-stamp its' prolongation.

    And anytime they like, in fear of whatever they say, they can make us stay home, pay anything, do anything... And they're not about to give that up.

    Welcome to "1984" - 2020 style.

    Go out (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:00:01 AM EST
    Shake some hands.

    That'll show um.  


    So far, (none / 0) (#23)
    by NoSides on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 12:51:29 PM EST
    the government has offered us the advice to stay home. That's about all they have to say.

    If we want a test to see if we are infected, there is little or no information about how to get one.

    In Germany, the rates of fatalities is comparatively very low. That is attributed to the use of widely available tests.

    Why is that not common in the US or France, or Spain, or Italy?

    What in the world is going on?

    The only people who we hear about getting tested are the rich and famous - or politicians.

    We need tests.


    ... can be attributed to a rigorous testing policy which has been in place for five weeks now. The reason why that country's reported number of fatalities is accelerating is because public health authorities have been re-examining prior deaths in retirement homes and skilled nursing facilities and re-listing the cause as COVID infection.

    Yes, we need more rigorous testing nationwide. What we're getting instead are presidential promos for MyPillow.com.



    I was thinking about the horrific death toll (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Towanda on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:09:08 PM EST
    of the flu pandemic a century ago. The death toll was extrapolated by comparing the death rate in those years to the average number of deaths in each country in previous years.

    I think that, owing to the criminal lack of tests today, we will see that extrapolation done a few years from now and find that the death toll in this pandemic is far higher than even the horrific numbers we see now . . . and will continue to see soon.


    This is our president (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 09:10:29 AM EST
    President Trump hasn't spoken to Speaker Nancy Pelosi in more than five months but he tweeted he did watch her on MSNBC this morning.

    Said Trump: "I watched a portion of low rated (very) Morning Psycho (Joe) this Morning in order to see what Nancy Pelosi had to say, & what moves she was planning to further hurt our Country. Actually, other than her usual complaining that I'm a terrible person, she wasn't bad. Still praying!"

    During the interview, Pelosi said she now just talks to Trump through the TV -- and she was right.

    I watched too.  She was a breath of fresh air.  

    Flummoxed by his last sentence. (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:48:16 PM EST
    He was making fun (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:51:53 PM EST
    Of the fact she said she was praying for him.  He said once before he did not believe she was praying for him.


    Still praying!


    Larry Sabato Crystal Ball on Virtual Conventions (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 09:13:54 AM EST
    Sad. Milwaukee was so excited (none / 0) (#52)
    by Towanda on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:12:03 PM EST
    about winning the competition tombe the site of the convention,

    On the other hand, I am not crazy about 50,000 people from elsewhere coming to cough and sneeze and shed virus in my city.


    No mail (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 03:53:49 PM EST
    Maybe I'm old fashioned but letting the mail stop running in an election year seems, I don't know, bad.

    Postal Service Could Shut Down by June

    March 31, 2020 at 2:09 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 225 Comments

    Fortune: "With a negative net worth of $65 billion and an additional $140 billion in unfunded liabilities, the USPS originally expected to run out of liquidity by 2021 without intervention. That has accelerated rapidly because of COVID-19. Fewer people and businesses are sending mail because of the outbreak, which could hasten the decline of the Postal Service and close its doors as early as June."

    Agreed, bad. (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 04:56:31 PM EST
    The USPS is subject to changes occurring and contemplated--less first class mail and more parcel deliveries.

    However, the funding issues are more about the Congressional mandate to prefund long-term pensions and health care liabilities. Mandating 100 percent prefunding of future liabilities that are based on frequently changing and uncertain assumptions places the USPS in a position not encountered as a quasi-governmental or governmental agency, or, even, the private sector. The prefunding includes people who have not even started work. The USPS does not run on US taxpayer dollars, although it receives benefits by not paying federal taxes---similar to that of non-profits.

    Cynics argue that the prefunding burden gives an advantage to UPS and FedEx. Or, promotes full privatization or a sell off.  


    the Post Office (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by leap on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 05:12:46 PM EST
    is written into our Constitution. For what's that worth. Not much, these days.

    Feeding my (none / 0) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 05:46:10 PM EST
    family 3 meals a day is getting expensive. I'm used to a husband that travels for work and a high schooler that eats at school and at work.

    It's not the expense but the time consumption (none / 0) (#56)
    by vml68 on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 10:55:36 PM EST
    that I've been grumbling about. I'm also used to a husband that travels every week for work. I don't think I've ever made three meals a day for more than two days in a row before this.

    Worse still, I'm a night owl and my dogs were happy to keep my hours, now, they are up at the crack of dawn raring to go because my husband is an early bird. Lack of sleep is making me grumpy!


    Definitely an (none / 0) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 06:55:12 AM EST
    adjustment here having everybody in the house all the time though they fix their own breakfast and lunch. The only thing I cook is dinner.

    Nice quote (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 31, 2020 at 08:56:50 PM EST
    from evolutionary biologist Bret Weinstein:

    "The fact that we are putting safety over
     productivity is actually the best
     feature of our humanity struggling to
     emerge aagainst our basest evolutionary

    Almost 4500 gone (none / 0) (#59)
    by desertswine on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 12:18:15 PM EST
    in the US this am.  5 deaths in NM so far.

    I started reading about NM (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by jondee on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 01:33:56 PM EST
    yesterday and somehow got caught up reading about a couple who both got the bubonic plague of all things while hiking in northern NM.

    Next thing I know I'm down the rabbit hole and reading about the 14th century Black Death, plague ships, and the excavation of medieval cemetaries in England. From the examination of skeletons, they've determined that people who survived the plague lived much longer than the average person lived before plague swept through Europe.


    I have the same pattern (none / 0) (#97)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:20:14 AM EST
    I read a story about bats and coronavirus and ended up reading medical articles about how bats transfer virus cells to Malaysian pangolins who likely give them to humans. Pangolins are the most sought after animals. and there is a real danger they will become extinct. Six of their 7 genomes match the corona virus. These scientists don't believe that bats can transer to humans, only to a host animal like the pangolin which then transfers to humans.

    Also reading about how people view these bat caves with millions of bats inside as hallowed places that should be designated historic monuments so the bats will still be there. They don't mind leaving the cave with nasty bat droppings all over them. Really bizaree.

    Many of the medical journal articles are fascinating, nothwithstanding the terms I don't understand. Lancelot has a lot of links to them and many are free to read.

    They say the virus first surfaced in November (not December) but was either purposely hid or nobody knew what it was.


    Just returned from Walmart (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 12:53:54 PM EST
    I don't know if it was Trumps little come to Jesus speech last night or those numbers or what but the atmosphere has definitely changed to the next level.

    It was packed.  They were running out of a lot of things.  That's not been so.  Also, almost everyone was wearing gloves and as many as half had masks.  Home made or otherwise.  A couple of day ago I was one of two or three people in gloves.

    They seem to have gotten the message.

    I guess that's good.

    I got the literal last package of TP.  Actually needed it.    It was one of those giant Brady Bunch size packs so I probably have enough TP for the rest of my natural life.


    I (none / 0) (#61)
    by FlJoe on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 01:01:30 PM EST
    made a run to Walmart yesterday during "Senior hour" at 6 am. Fairly calm and not crowded but stupidly they were still stocking the shelves on many of the aisles so maintaining social distancing was difficult.

    First thing in the morning and they still had no TP.


    It was actually still in the box (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 01:06:14 PM EST
    Still on the floor.

    He had just opened it.  People started grabbing them.

    Right place right time.


    I was in Walmart during the old folks hours (none / 0) (#63)
    by ragebot on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 01:27:25 PM EST
    Left the house at zero dark thirty and got there to be one of the first inside.  Maybe 50 peeps in the whole store.  Plenty of TP but also lots of empty shelves for some things; but nothing I really buy.  Also picked up a couple of nice steaks.

    This is my second trip at 6:00AM.  Both time were very similar.  Biggest difference is that all the employees seemed to have been told by the boss to be very polite and to ask the old guys if they needed any help with anything.  I have also gone in twice much later in the day because they don't seem to put out the meat till later on.  Much more crowded and never seems to be any TP after lunch.

    As an aside DeSantis just ordered a statewide shutdown.


    I haven't been in a Walmart.. (none / 0) (#65)
    by desertswine on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 03:18:39 PM EST
    since this thing started.  I just figured that there would be too many people there to be safe.  But I guess nowhere out of the house is really safe.  This is the new America I guess.  

    Walmart (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 03:51:45 PM EST
    Is testing employees for fever before they go to work.  Officially.  And sending them home with pay if they have one

    It is probably as safe as anywhere right now.  Definitely around here


    Also (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 03:53:08 PM EST
    It was packed but everyone was taking personal space very seriously.

    I go to my local grocery store (none / 0) (#96)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 07:14:05 AM EST
    big chain but only sells food. They have wipes out for the you so you can clean the cart handles. and they have staff cleaning all the shelves with spray bottles and paper towels. They come over the PA and say "Time for X department to clean aisle 4". I go at noon and they have toilet paper and everything but eggs and rubbing alcohol and hand sanitizer and disinfectants. They even had thermometers this week.
    But at 5:00 I had to go pick up a prescription at their sister store 1 mile away, and the shelves were just bare. Scary how bare they were.

    Come to Jesus (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 04:08:00 PM EST
    Why Trump Changed Tack on the Pandemic

    April 1, 2020 at 4:00 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 133 Comments

    Gabriel Sherman reports that President Trump only shifted his tone as the coronavirus virus spread to "Trump country."

    You all (none / 0) (#71)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 06:54:24 PM EST
    must be about 2-3 weeks behind us. I saw all of that a few weeks ago right after the crazy speech or press conference. Thankfully we are now getting restocked though today stores were still scant on cleaning products for the most part.

    Does this mean (none / 0) (#70)
    by KeysDan on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 04:39:38 PM EST
    the Churches will not be packed on Easter?  Maybe, just the Church graveyards.

    Ghost Cities (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 04:15:07 PM EST
    Jesus (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 07:19:17 PM EST
    Which is creepier?

    Anthony Fauci's Security Stepped Up

    April 1, 2020 at 8:16 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 2 Comments

    "Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious-diseases expert and the face of the U.S. response to the novel coronavirus pandemic, is facing growing threats to his personal safety, prompting the government to step up his security," the Washington Post reports.

    "The concerns include threats as well as unwelcome communications from fervent admirers."

    Talk about creepy... (none / 0) (#76)
    by desertswine on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 09:57:14 PM EST
    Scamvangelist cures coronav.   I don't know what we were worried about now.

    When (none / 0) (#73)
    by ragebot on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 09:05:06 PM EST
    Wow (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 09:57:13 PM EST
    I think this is going to spread.  The crazy.  The worse things get.

    It's being driven by people like the most recent Medal of Freedom recipient.

    The interesting thing will be how Trump deals with it.  How much is he willing to do and to who to try to keep enough of his voters alive to have a chance of winning.


    He said he did it (none / 0) (#77)
    by jondee on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 10:12:47 PM EST
    to wake people up to what's going

    Pure looney tunes, QAnon, 'big government takeover' stuff.


    to what's going on (none / 0) (#78)
    by jondee on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 10:35:08 PM EST
    It's a good thing (none / 0) (#85)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 02:53:11 PM EST
    ...that a guy like that wasn't given a position of authority.

    Captain Ahab (none / 0) (#87)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 03:50:14 PM EST
    going down with the locomotive.

    Carnival Row (none / 0) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 01, 2020 at 09:51:33 PM EST
    Other fans?  I'm really liking it.  The production is close to perfect.  I love some of the ideas. Great cast.  I'm a big Alice Krige fan.  

    I love the stuff about The Martyr.

    Which is a religious figure who is represented by very lifelike replicas of a man hanging from a noose.  You see them everywhere.  Which seems horrible until you realize we have very lifelike representations of a man nailed to a cross every where you look.

    I like it.  New season in Oct supposedly.

    More crazy news (none / 0) (#81)
    by ragebot on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 08:39:54 AM EST
    Again unexplained crazy stuff.

    A Venezuelan Navy ship tried to detain a small but tough cruise ship and after the Venezuelan Navy ship rammed the cruise ship several times it sustained enough damage that the navy ship sank.

    Seems the cruise ship had been designed as an ice breaker and was tougher than the Venezuelan Navy ship thought it was.

    In other news (none / 0) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    A couple days ago a Venezuelan Naval vessel sank itself while trying to hijack a German cruise ship (flagged in Portugal) in International waters. Shots were fired by the Venezuelans.

    When the cruise ship refused to follow the Venezuelan orders, the Venezuelan Naval ship rammed the cruise ship repeatedly.

    Little did the Venezuelans know that the cruise ship was built with a reinforced hull for ice-breaking. The Venezuelan Naval vessel took on water and sank. The cruise ship was barely scratched.

    Pretty embarassing, but not a tragedy, (none / 0) (#84)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 01:08:50 PM EST
    as no one was injured nor killed.

    I guess (none / 0) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 05:34:24 PM EST
    I an laugh then. This really is pretty funny since nobody got hurt only that idiots sunk their own boat.

    Sanity from San Francisco (none / 0) (#88)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 03:55:10 PM EST
    What about people not (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 03:58:53 PM EST
    wearing freshly-laundered clothing at all times?

    They need some Larry David outfit-trackers there.

    And wtf does "virtue signaling" mean?


    Actually I know what it means (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 04:03:44 PM EST
    it's right-wingese for moralizing that has nothing to do with guns, abortion, and gays.

    Wingnut welfare (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 05:33:43 PM EST
    has it's own language. I had to tell someone on Facebook that I didn't speak Breitbart.

    The ban. (none / 0) (#98)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 08:44:42 AM EST
    Showed just how virtuous the banners were. What could be more virtuous than "saving the planet (tm)"

    The ban (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 09:50:54 AM EST
    ... mitigated the pollution of our planet.  It has nothing to do with demonstrating virtue, but with facts and science.  I remember when conservatives used to at least pretend to be concerned with conservation and polluting, but I guess they now get more enjoyment from making false, hypocritical accusations of "virtue signalling".

    Not surprising at all.


    "Virtue signaling" - heh (5.00 / 4) (#91)
    by Yman on Thu Apr 02, 2020 at 04:22:12 PM EST
    Is that what they call a desire to reduce pollution, now?


    I thought it was when someone pretends to be morally superior over an issue that's either: 1) not important or 2) laughably hypocritical.  Like when wingers lose their $hit over someone respectfully protesting while the national anthem is played.  Or while they loudly proclaim their religious faith while cheating on their spouse, watching pron, cheating their business associates and lying on their taxes.  Or maybe when they laud the importance of sacrifice and military service as they get their doctor/podiatrist to given them a note.  Or fill their FB feed with "pro life" memes while they whine about tax money being used to feed the poor and applauding children being separated from their parents.

    "Virtue signaling".



    Yeah. (none / 0) (#99)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 08:48:42 AM EST
    That it helps disease to spread is is a cost well worth paying seems to be your point.

    "Seems to be"? (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 09:47:00 AM EST

    Always a tell-tale signal that a winger is going to distort your words to make up a strawman argument.

    My actual point is that wingers love to call important measures "virtue signaling" simply because they disagree with them, while they hypocritically perform their own virtue signaling on unimportant issues.  With respect to single use plastic bags, banning their use and substituting reusable bags prevents millions of pounds of plastic pollution every year.  During a pandemic, however, they rightly recognized that such a ban could spread the virus and should be lifted.  That's called logical, smart governance.  I get that wingers have trouble dealing with that concept, especially with this administration - but it's not rocket science.


    You can wash a reusable (none / 0) (#107)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 02:52:01 PM EST
    shopping bag as easily as you can wash anything else.

    You're letting your mind be infected by the COVID-19 of wingnut memes without thinking them through, Abdul.


    3M faces pressure from Trump order (none / 0) (#102)
    by Natal on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 11:23:27 AM EST
    to stop exporting N95 masks to Canada.

    Here's some of Trudeau's response:

    trade goes in both directions...there are thousand of nurses in Windsor, who work in Detroit everyday, Americans depend on them...it would be a mistake for both of our countries to limit access to goods and essential personnel,"

    Here's 3M's response:

    "Ceasing all export of respirators produced in the United States would likely cause other countries to retaliate and do the same, as some have already done. If that were to occur, the net number of respirators being made available to the United States would actually decrease. That is the opposite of what we and the administration, on behalf of the American people, both seek."

    It looks like Canada will no longer be the closest Ally.

    Not sure what to make of this (none / 0) (#104)
    by ragebot on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 01:00:19 PM EST
    I (none / 0) (#108)
    by FlJoe on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 03:09:01 PM EST
    Don't see them doing "just fine" According to K Drum they are still on Italy's path.

    Bill Withers... (none / 0) (#105)
    by desertswine on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 01:30:42 PM EST
    I applied for the Paycheck Protection Program (none / 0) (#106)
    by McBain on Fri Apr 03, 2020 at 02:15:04 PM EST
    this morning.  I wasn't expecting my bank to be ready but they had the online app up and running.  Not sure how long it will take to be approved or if I'll have to submit more info.  Lot's of questions but so far so good.

    Anyone else apply for this or a disaster loan?