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Thursday Open Thread

Here's a new open thread, all topics welcome. I may not be back online until sometime next week. Hopefully you find the open threads useful in my absence.

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    GOP Candidates Support ISIS (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 03:15:29 PM EST
    Everyone in the GOP debate agreed with ISIS that we need to be terrified of them., even though we are in hundreds of times more danger from drunk drivers.

    When did cowardice become an American value?

    I love you (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 03:21:13 PM EST
    Do you have this diary up at Orange?

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 03:24:44 PM EST
    Haven't done a diary there in a while.

    Now I have to look and see who had the same thought.

    Parent

    I thought it would make a good (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 04:07:27 PM EST
    Diary. I don't know if anyone has done this topic yet.

    Parent
    Didn't we just make this mistake? (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 03:30:50 PM EST
    sometime after 9/11/11 to present?  Fear, panic, surrender liberties, two wars, hundreds of thousands dead or displaced, billions and billions of dollars wasted?  

    Parent
    "For they have sown the wind..... (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 08:30:41 AM EST
    .....and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up."

    A C-SPAN caller from Utah first asked Tea Party Representative Dave Brat what they're getting for all the money they're spending, and then had a second question that was more controversial.

    "Can I sh!t in your mouth," the caller asked before being hastily cut off by CSPAN's moderator.

    LINK

    More sowing (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 08:44:44 AM EST

    (Raw Story) Conservative columnist Kurt Schlichter had a bizarre analogy for GOP front runner Donald Trump. On Tuesday, Schlichter went on CNN and criticized Trump, comparing him to a "hot chick" who "puts out," but who in the end is crazy.


    Parent
    And yet (none / 0) (#45)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 08:47:37 AM EST
    I saw another columnist who previously was chiding the GOP for being crazy jumping on the crazy train. Strange times we live in for sure.

    Parent
    Pope Franis Bullsh*t is at it again (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 08:43:25 AM EST
    Clears the way to Sainthood for Mother Theresa, one of the worst people to ever walk the earth. (link) She was a strident anti-choicer who abused the poor in her care for her own purposes, and who chose to misuse the hundreds of millions in funds donated to her to keep people poor and suffering because she thought it was "beautiful."

    Two lauded but ultimately nothing people who deserve each other. Pope Francis is just not a decent or serious leader of any sort. Pfft.

    MOTHER THERESA: Hell's Angel (link)


    Brace for incoming (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 08:46:05 AM EST
    :)

    Parent
    Bring it, people (none / 0) (#46)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 08:58:58 AM EST
    I love the smell of keyboarding in the morning. Peace to east to you, mi amigo.

    Parent
    Mother Teresa is a saint (5.00 / 5) (#93)
    by KeysDan on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:27:15 PM EST
    only if you are willing to overlook patriarchal authoritarianism in the service of her cause. She worked with and lived with the poor, but, to me, sacrificed integrity in her cozy relationships with despots.

     And, Mother Teresa eagerly permitted Catholic dogma to override good works. An appalling example is the Mother Teresa Hospice in Washington that would not allow men dying of AIDS to have their loving partners visit them. Because this would recognize gay love and relationships.

    A real candidate for sainthood would be Sister Agnes Kunze.  An ecumenical German who cared for the poorest of poor in India, including leprosy patients.  An organization formed in Sister Agnes' memory is the Hope Project.

    Parent

    it is estimated she spent 5-10% of donations... (5.00 / 4) (#94)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:28:22 PM EST
    ...on the poor. That is all you need to know. She thought suffering was a spectacle to exploit for organized religion's reasons. sorry, she was a complete and utter fraud.

    Parent
    hum . . . (none / 0) (#48)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 09:16:09 AM EST

    Christopher Hitchens was the only witness as far as he knew, called by the Vatican to give evidence against Mother Teresa's beatification and canonisation process,[128] because the Vatican had abolished the traditional "devil's advocate" role, which fulfilled a similar purpose.[129] Hitchens has argued that "her intention was not to help people," and he alleged that she lied to donors about the use of their contributions. "It was by talking to her that I discovered, and she assured me, that she wasn't working to alleviate poverty," says Hitchens. "She was working to expand the number of Catholics. She said, 'I'm not a social worker. I don't do it for this reason. I do it for Christ. I do it for the church.'"[130]

    In Slate magazine, Hitchens pondered the notion that, instead of curing antisemitism through the creation of a Jewish state, "Zionism has only replaced and repositioned"[111] it, saying: "there are three groups of 6 million Jews. The first 6 million live in what the Zionist movement used to call Palestine. The second 6 million live in the United States. The third 6 million are distributed mainly among Russia, France, Britain, and Argentina. Only the first group lives daily in range of missiles that can be (and are) launched by people who hate Jews." Hitchens argued that instead of supporting Zionism, Jews should help "secularise and reform their own societies", believing that unless one is religious, "what the hell are you doing in the greater Jerusalem area in the first place?" Indeed, Hitchens goes so far as to claim that the only justification for Zionism given by Jews is a religious one.[112]

    Hitchens often spoke against the Abrahamic religions. When asked by readers of The Independent (London) what he considered to be the "axis of evil", Hitchens replied "Christianity, Judaism, Islam - the three leading monotheisms."[134] In God Is Not Great, Hitchens expanded his criticism to include all religions, including those rarely criticised by Western secularists, such as Buddhism and neo-paganism. The book received mixed responses, from praise in The New York Times for his "logical flourishes and conundrums"[135] to accusations of "intellectual and moral shabbiness" in the Financial Times.[136] God Is Not Great was nominated for a National Book Award on 10 October 2007.[137][138]

    Parent

    His support of Dubya's Iraq invasion... (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:29:53 PM EST
    ...is the disgrace of his career. I was pained and disgusted to see his logical mind twisting itself to rationalize idiocy. We're all human, ultimately.

    Parent
    If they had invited Bill Maher (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 09:24:19 AM EST
    They would have had more fun.

    Loved Hitch btw.

    Parent

    I still reflect on what Hitchens said about (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:51:02 AM EST
    Buddhism being a lazy faith. I would have scoffed at that once. But I had to face that fact in a life changing way once. Buddhists believe that if we change how we perceive things and interact with things we can change  outcomes. Love, kindness, patience fixes everything

    When I was dealing with Tricare denying Josh the surgery he needed to save his life, I really thought keeping a positive frame of mind and continuing to politely ask Tricare would get the job done. I trusted the universe (now I don't even know what that means). But it was a retired Chaplain who had a son who was a physician's assistant who snapped me out of it. His son had been phoning his dad trying to deal with what the insurance companies were doing to people. The Chaplain told me, "Look, they want to kill him. He's going to cost them money they don't want to give. The plan is to kill off everyone like him. You have to fight, or you will never recover from how this turns out."

    I have a hard time meditating since then. He was right. And I did fight, the one thing a Buddhist kind of conditions themselves not to do. And I fight a lot of things now. Silence is too dangerous in this world. When facing evil, life can evaporate in the silence.  I struggle now to understand how all this is supposed to go though where faith is concerned.

    Parent

    All organized religions suck (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:26:55 PM EST
    Buddhism included. There is nothing you can't understand, nothing that can't connect you to something larger, than standing under the night sky and staring up and the stars.

    No one, NO ONE, needs ORGANIZED religion. It is a curse, because the spiritual life can never be quantified, and organizations are ALL about quantifying.

    And, like you said via that chaplain, when it comes to fighting for your child in the context of modern medical madness, or most modern madness for that matter, hell, you better meditate with a metaphorical (or sometimes literal) dagger in your hand. Sad, but true.

    Peace out, Tracy.

    Parent

    Of course, there are some Buddhists (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 01:27:27 PM EST
    who fight. See Myanmar. Some portions of Buddhism advocate for and do violence against Muslims.

    Parent
    My understanding of what is going on (none / 0) (#128)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:16:33 PM EST
    In Myanmar is that Buddhists are fighting Jihadism, not Islam. Even the Dalia lama has spoken out though on Jihadism and terrorism. It destroys the fabric of civilization. Becoming self actualized is big in Buddhism, and even psychologists have documented that living in real fear chronically prevents all of us from becoming self actualized, no matter what your faith is. You can't get there when your life is constantly in danger. So the monks view sacrificing their lives fighting that fight as a benefit to all of mankind.


    Parent
    The segment of Buddhism (none / 0) (#152)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 08:47:50 PM EST
    that is physically harming Muslims in Myanmar is not trying to stamp out ISIS. They are trying to eradicate the Muslims in Myanmar.

    Parent
    I have read Jihadists oculus (none / 0) (#159)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Dec 19, 2015 at 07:19:20 AM EST
    Not that reading the press is very informative when it comes to foreign countries. When we were in Poland, the family we visited was in Greece during one of the financial meltdowns. They said the press were desperate to find protesters, but almost none were to be found. A local young woman listened to a reporter give his report and afterwards told him he needed to calm down, have a glass of water, everything was fine :)

    Parent
    News to me. NYT and google news (none / 0) (#160)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 19, 2015 at 09:51:26 AM EST
    haven't included this info.

    Parent
    News to me. NYT and google (none / 0) (#161)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 19, 2015 at 09:52:46 AM EST
    News haven't included this info.

    Parent
    Something that has fed it too (none / 0) (#162)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Dec 19, 2015 at 01:10:33 PM EST
    Is sadly Muslim men doing harm, raping, setting on fire, killing Buddhist women.

    Parent
    It is a very different concept though (none / 0) (#130)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:18:44 PM EST
    When you reflect that initially Tibetan Buddhists didn't really condone fighting. It is an evolution in the faith.

    Parent
    Or his cousin (none / 0) (#50)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:00:35 AM EST
    Bill O'Reilly

    I now understand it.  Maher and O'Reilly share the same blowhard gene.

    Parent

    Focus on the Family (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 08:46:29 AM EST
    supports Ted Cruz. I guess it's good news for them they finally have someone they can love after McCain and Romney. I have to wonder if this will have any effect on Ted's numbers.

    Turns my stomach (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:12:25 AM EST
    Hate filled faith? How does that work? It's grotesque.

    Parent
    For something a lot different (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by CST on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:05:04 PM EST
    "Astronomers have spotted a planet that is the closest potentially habitable world humanity has ever seen."

    "It is one of the first times that astronomers have spotted a planet near to us that has the kind of rocky, solid surface that is thought to be necessary for alien life.

    "It is a particularly exciting find because all three planets are of low enough mass to be potentially rocky and have a solid surface, and the middle planet, Wolf 1061c, sits within the 'Goldilocks' zone where it might be possible for liquid water -- and maybe even life -- to exist," said lead study author Dr Duncan Wright in a statement."

    Link

    Heck, time to start (none / 0) (#118)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:43:55 PM EST
    building our spaceship.  And, while we're at it, invent some form of suspended animation so we aren't too old by the time we get there.   ;-)
    It's "only" about fourteen light-years away, but we can't get anywhere near the speed of light in a ship.
    Darn, where's a wormhole when you need one?

    Parent
    Based on the pirate crew's fantasy (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by caseyOR on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:55:39 PM EST
    expertise at navigating the Seven Seas (well, the warmer ones) perhaps we could be of assistance in the building and operating of said spaceship. I mean, a fantasy ship is a fantasy ship, right? :-)

    Parent
    I got something... (none / 0) (#132)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:38:33 PM EST
    to make us slumber Captain Casey...but I don't know about 14 light years of slumber.  

    Parent
    Well, work on that, kdog. (none / 0) (#135)
    by caseyOR on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:49:00 PM EST
    We have some time before liftoff to work out the kinks in whatever plan might be devised.

    Parent
    current estimates (none / 0) (#147)
    by ragebot on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 04:58:58 PM EST
    are it would take from 3,000 to 20,000 years to travel a single light year using current technology.

    So a WAG would be around 50,000 years to nap.

    Parent

    That's why we need (none / 0) (#149)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 05:42:43 PM EST
    suspended animation.
    Or better yet, a convenient wormhole.

    Parent
    Make it so... (5.00 / 3) (#153)
    by desertswine on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 09:00:39 PM EST
    LOL! (none / 0) (#154)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 09:07:29 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    It Will Take... (none / 0) (#163)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 10:32:59 AM EST
    ...Voyager & Voyager II approximately 30,000 years to clear the Ort Cloud, which some believe is the cosmic edge of our solar system.

    But more importantly, we don't even know where our own boundary is in the universe.  The notion that we are capable of space travel outside the solar system is funny considering we longer have contact with either craft and they relatively close.  Plus both have unexpectedly slowed down and we don't know why.  Not only would you need to heat the craft, but you would need oxygen and food for a human being to travel in a suspended state 4 times longer than most humans live just to hit the closest star.

    If wormholes were viable, we would have detected one IMO.

    Also, I highly doubt we will travel in my lifetime to Mars.  Because of how the planets rotate, it's only close enough to Earth every two years.  The technology to launch and have human beings away from Earth for two years simply does not exist.  I get that we want humans to do it, but right now the money is better spent sending probes and robots IMO.

    Parent

    I dunno (none / 0) (#121)
    by CST on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:50:02 PM EST
    For all it's problems I kind of like this planet.  I can think of a few other people I'd send there though :)  And I don't really care what they look like when they get there.

    Parent
    Trump on ISIS... (none / 0) (#4)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 03:27:30 PM EST
    recently:
    This is like no other war we've ever had.  This is a war, believe me.  We're going to have to knock them out and knock them out hard.

    So far some of his ideas are killing their families, dropping nukes, and of course my favorite, kicking them off 'our' internet.

    But what was Mr Foreign Policy saying 3 months ago:

    Let Russia get rid of ISIS. What the hell do we care?

    No point other than that no one seems to remember when Trump wanted to let Russia fight ISIS, less than 90 days later he is ready to kill their families.

    One has to wonder if Trump would call the Trump of 3 months ago a 'feckless weakling' for not wanting to go bananas on ISIS.

    Actually (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 03:30:44 PM EST
    Christie was the one with the feckless weakling line.   Feckless is sort of a big word for Donald.

    Parent
    I'm so feckless (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 08:36:31 PM EST
    ...that I can't even give a single feck.

    Parent
    Got my ticket (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 03:28:31 PM EST
    For The Force Awakens!

    Tomorrow night. 11:20pm showing. (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 05:18:03 PM EST
    Me, the Mrs., and nine 14 y/o's.

    The Mrs. Sarc and I may not have thought this one through well enough...

    Parent

    Good luck. (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 06:25:59 PM EST
    My husband is only taking one 14 year old.

    Parent
    I have every confidence in you. (none / 0) (#32)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 11:52:40 PM EST
    Be thankful that you and the Mrs. aren't shepherding nine four-year-olds. Of course, were that the case, I doubt that you'd be attending an 11:20 p.m. movie showing.

    ;-D

    Parent

    As I Have NMentioned... (none / 0) (#8)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 03:51:25 PM EST
    ...never saw any of them, but they are selling a ticket for all the movies, 7.  I did it with Batman and 3, but to sit in a theater for 12 hours, I don't know.

    I am not opposed to seeing them, but when you missed the first couple jumping in mid point seems dumb, and now I would be lost.

    If the reviews are accurate, you will love it.  I have read nothing but good things, surprisingly good considering in the past I don't ever remember reviews like I am seeing.

    Parent

    Also (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 04:04:14 PM EST
    I recommend seeing them the was the appeared in theaters.   Not the way they are numbered.  4,5,6 then 1,2,3.
    4,5 and 6 are excellent.  1,2 and 3 are pretty effects movies that are often painfully stupid.

    Parent
    "effects movies" (none / 0) (#21)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 08:11:44 PM EST
    I'm glad you said that, Capt.  I never went to another Star Wars after Attack of the Clones.  Part way through that piece of junk I realized I was predicting every freakin' word they said.  Nothing was new.  Nothing.  This was how the supposed masters of a galaxy talked?  

    The effects were great.  Everything else sucked.

    Did you see Wall-E?  That was a great piece of sifi.  

    Parent

    I did (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 09:34:34 PM EST
    And it definitely was.
      Not to keep going on about it but it was really fun seeing Childhood's End on the screen.   THAT is great Scifi.  From back when great Scifi was about something more that bigger weapons and bigger explosions.  Back when it made you think.  It was amazing how many classic Scifi movies you could see in that story.  How many directors stole from Atrhur.  Lucas, Speilberg, Cameron and most of all Roland Emmerich.  
    The giant ships hovering over cities, the star constellations as symbols.  The reviews were interesting.  One said it was like a cliffnotes version of the story.  Some truth in that.  One criticized it for so many Scifi "cliches".  Amazing being written in the early 50s and the actual source of the cliches.  

    Yeah.   The last three movies sucked and blew.  Hard to decide which was worse the insulting racial stereo types like steppenfetchit Jarjar, or the Jewish junk yard supervisor or the insufferably stupid dialog.   But the were beautiful.  

    They are saying J. J. resurrected the franchise.  I can't wait.

    Parent

    I am so not a Star Wars fan (none / 0) (#90)
    by sj on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:10:09 PM EST
    But even I spent a couple of hours reading the comments and following the link on this reddit post. Which was made even more titillating this comment of JarJar Binks' voice actor.
    As far as you know, did George Lucas ever consider making any changes to Jar-Jar Binks in light of the general negative reaction towards him?
    [-]bestahmed[S] 153 points 1 year ago

    Not to the character, but to the story arc there were huge changes.



    Parent
    It was a good thing that I wasn't armed ... (none / 0) (#33)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:04:55 AM EST
    ... when we saw "Star Wars, Episode I: The Phantom Menace." I'd have jumped up halfway through the film and opened fire point blank on Jar-Jar Binks, just to try and put him out of our misery.

    Special effects aside, "Phantom Menace" was a tedious and laborious film that at key moments teetered on the brink of being truly awful. It didn't even possess any partially redeeming camp value.

    Liam Neeson did well to ensure that he was killed off in that episode, and did not agree to hang around for another segment. And Natalie Portman was lucky that her own role in that overblown piece of dreck didn't subsequently derail her career.

    ;-D

    Parent

    J. J. Abrams (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 03:59:28 PM EST
    Simple as that really.

    Actually I think you could see this out of order.  Personally I would binge at home.  I would kill myself if I had to sit in a theater that long.  I can't believe I'm fighting the crowds.   I never do it.  I know I will hate it.  But I couldn't help myself.

    Parent

    Not meaning to question your math (none / 0) (#22)
    by CoralGables on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 08:11:57 PM EST
    But the running time of all 7 back to back is about 15 hours 26 minutes. You could watch all 7 here in Miami starting very early this morning for $60, which included 4 15 minute breaks and a pair of hour long breaks, making it over 18 hours in total from start to finish.

    Parent
    Once had a friend visiting (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 09:43:58 PM EST
    Who had never seen the Rings movies so I made him watch all three extended directors cuts back to back.  He has never visited again but he still talks about how he had dreams about Hobbits for years.

    Parent
    My daughter just texted me (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 10:56:11 PM EST
    Josh is going tonight (none / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 04:13:04 PM EST
    With a friend. I'm going to bleach the porch. I have been waiting for my begonias to die so  I can decorate outdoors for Christmas. I guess they aren't going to die this year, and I'm going to have to weed whack the nicotiana? Strange petri dish weather.

    Parent
    Youngest (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 04:53:49 PM EST
    is going on Monday with his dad. I bought the tickets a couple of weeks ago.

    You really are Suzy Homemaker these days aren't you? :)

    Parent

    I'm doing my best (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 07:17:57 PM EST
    It wasn't what I ever thought I would be doing. I worked until Josh was born. It's a hard transition. I didn't have much of an identity when it came to cooking, decorating for holidays. I tried to be a cool minimalist :) I don't know how some women have done this so well :)

    Parent
    While I was Xmasing indoors (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 07:20:52 PM EST
    I also watched Soaked in Bleach on Netflix. Courtney killed Kurt :)

    Parent
    Bleaching the porch (none / 0) (#23)
    by CoralGables on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 08:13:30 PM EST
    sounds more enjoyable.

    Parent
    What did the South do before bleach? (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 10:17:46 PM EST
    And Tide (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 04:52:18 AM EST
    detergent. Growing up we washed everything with Tide, floors, you name it except dishes. My aunt cleaned her entire house with a paste of Tide and bleach. I have to say though knowing about that paste of Tide and bleach came in handy when I had a white kitchen floor :)

    Parent
    But not for windows (none / 0) (#107)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:11:48 PM EST
    For those, you use a mixture of white vinegar and water.  ;-)

    Parent
    Have fun! (none / 0) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 04:55:00 PM EST
    Tonight we're seeing the latest onscreen incarnation of William Shakespeare's epic masterpiece "MacBeth," starring Michael Fassbender as the corrupt and duplicitous Steve Jobs, and Marion Cotillard as the ambitious and manipulative Edith Piaf, or something like that.

    Seriously, though, both the film and its two leads have garnered superb reviews thus far. The Guardian's Peter Bradshaw calls it both a "Shakespearean noir thriller with operatic verve" and "dream team pairing in a charismatic but unsubtle version of the Scottish play," while the respective performances by Fassbender and Cotillard are "award-worthy," according to Leslie Felperin in the Hollywood Reporter, who further compares the film flatteringly to "Game of Thrones":

    "[A] lot of the extra-textual additions work to flesh out Lady Macbeth's character and make her less than a stock scheming b*tch and more comprehensible as a woman driven by frustration, grief and, yes, greed. Cotillard's French accent effectively underscores her otherness, suggesting that she might be the equivalent, with her Medusa braids and outre, Adam Ant-style smear of blue eyeshadow, of a medieval mail-order bride who'd understandably like a better life than the hardscrabble of survival in a shabby tent watching her children die. It's a smart move, making her a witness to the death of Lady Macduff, thus precipitating her guilt-fueled breakdown later. Cotillard nails the character's final, 'out damn spot' monologue with a display of cracked sanity and despair that will surely reap this already much admired actress further awards recognition."

    "MacBeth" has always been my favorite Shakespeare play, and I'm really looking forward to this. Cinematic productions of his works generally don't fare too well come awards season, certainly not since Laurence Olivier's plodding and now-dated 1948 version of "Hamlet," but perhaps this time might be the exception.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    what? And miss Obama on (none / 0) (#15)
    by Anne on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 05:16:41 PM EST
    "Running Wild with Bear Grylls?"

    Set your DVR!

    He helped make tea from catkins, ate a salmon pre-chewed by a bear, and discussed why people would drink their own urine.
    From Our Advertisers

    On Thursday night, President Obama will appear in an episode of the survivalist reality show "Running Wild With Bear Grylls," part of an effort by the White House to highlight the perils of climate change. While trekking in the Alaskan wild, the president and Mr. Grylls, one of reality TV's biggest stars, bemoan the rapid retreat of a vast glacier.

    But the episode also reveals Mr. Obama as a leader made claustrophobic by tight security, a father who is worried about appearing cool to his daughters, and a man who likes pushing through a forest and scrabbling over rocks to reach his campsite.

    "I think you assume that someone with that kind of responsibility and power is somehow different from the rest of us," Mr. Grylls said in a telephone interview on Wednesday. "So it's surprising to see how he really is."

    I'm intrigued...

    Parent

    I am not a fan (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 05:21:11 PM EST
    Of all TV.  I look forward to your review.

    Parent
    "Macbeth": Two thumbs up! (none / 0) (#34)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:11:32 AM EST
    Go see it. It's like "Game of Thrones," before there ever was a "Game of Thrones." Both Michael Fassbender and Marion Cotillard are outstanding. I'm certain that at least one of them will garner an Oscar nomination for their lead performances.

    Parent
    2 outstanding actors (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 08:09:08 AM EST
    Especially her IMO

    Parent
    Is That a Rerun... (none / 0) (#164)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:05:22 PM EST
    ...because Obama already did that about a year ago.

    I would love to see the filming of it, with 50 dudes in black suits, right out of view of the cameras, maybe shaking down a suspicious looking Elk.

    Parent

    He did it August, I think (none / 0) (#165)
    by jbindc on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:07:57 PM EST
    This was the first airing.

    Parent
    Josh says new Star Wars is fab (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 10:16:53 PM EST
    And the next episode is out in about 500 days?

    And supporting Christmas gets a (none / 0) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 10:43:02 PM EST
    Vote in the House? Jesus freakin cripes. No Hanukka support vote you pathetic panderers? And of course Kwanzaa support is OFF the table. Who votes these worthless fruck ups in power?

    ;-D

    Parent
    My gym guys are totally confused (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by fishcamp on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 07:13:57 AM EST
    after the last debate.  They say it's sad they have nobody qualified to vote for.  When I suggested Hillary they gave me the stink eye, but didn't argue back.  Could be progress.

    Parent
    You have (none / 0) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 07:20:06 AM EST
    to be loving this or at least I would if I were in your shoes as much grief as you have had to endure from them.

    What all of a sudden made them decide nobody was qualified? Did they say? Was it Christie saying he'd talk to King Hussein who died 16 years ago?

    Parent

    Doesn't matter dead or not (none / 0) (#38)
    by CoralGables on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 07:24:48 AM EST
    His mistake was saying he'd talk to any one named Hussein.

    Parent
    Did they say anything (none / 0) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 09:07:10 AM EST
    about who they would like to run?

    As an aside, if they won't vote for HRC, they can always vote for Bernie. 😉

    Parent

    Oh, that rascally Bernie (none / 0) (#51)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:04:51 AM EST
    Charlie Pierce (none / 0) (#58)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:31:15 AM EST
    If the roles were reversed Clinton (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by caseyOR on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:30:47 AM EST
    would be pilloried in the town square. The assumption would be that Hillary personally ordered the breach, maybe conducted it herself.

    And that bro-dude, Jeff Weaver, Bernie's campaign manager, would be screaming to high heaven about the evil of Hillary Clinton.

    Debbie Wasserman-Schulz is at best a dope and at worst a bungling Clinton partisan who's actions are not really helping Clinton. So, if DWS is the source of the leak she has once again damaged the DNC and Clinton's campaign.

    Parent

    I don't think Pierce or anyone else, (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:59:54 PM EST
    including me, has indicated that Hillary's campaign leaked the story. That could have been the story line but it wasn't. From everything I've read all the published criticism has been leveled against the DNC.

    Here at TL of course, there is a different mindset. The story was included in the thread by a HRC supporter, theories that the Sander's campaign leaked the story has been put forth by more than one Hillary supporter and based on no evidence you are now indicating that Sander's campaign manager would scream to high heavens that Hillary was evil.

    What continues to be ignored or discounted is that the DNC took punitive action against the Sander's campaign that could damage his campaign. It would not be ignored or discounted by Hillary supporters if the DNC took action against her.

    Many pundits and members of the Democratic Party, believe that DWS is a dope and many are of the opinion that she is a Hillary partisan who structures events to benefit her preferred candidate. This opinion or possibility has been put forth even by pundits who are for all intents and purposes HRC supporters.

    Parent

    I have not yet decided who i (none / 0) (#111)
    by caseyOR on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:24:44 PM EST
    am supporting. As I have said here before, I find myself torn between Clinton and Sanders. My comments about this data breach are not based on anti-Bernie feelings.

    That said, Jeff Weaver has shown himself quick to castigate and demean Hillary Clinton. My remark about him screaming to high heaven had Clinton's campaign committed the breach is based on his past behavior, not on some non-existent antipathy toward Sanders.

    I don't know who leaked the story. If it was DSW, well, as I said previously, she is dope. She is also a liability to the DNC.

    Let's keep in mind that the Sanders' staffer who was fired for the breach was not some kid new to high stakes political campaigns. Josh Uretsky is in his late 30s, has worked on many campaigns, including Obama's, and bills himself as an expert in the use of this particular campaign data base. It is inconceivable to me that he did not know exactly what he was doing and knew it was a major violation. He, and the other four Sanders staffers who accessed the Clinton campaign info, basically stole proprietary campaign information about voters and voting patterns that had been compiled by the Clinton campaign.

    This was not some minor transgression on the part of Sanders' campaign.

    To me, the story is less that news of the breach was leaked, although DSW is a dope, and more that Sanders' campaign staffers intentionally accessed the Clinton campaign data knowing full-well to do so was an egregious act.

    I do not for a minute think Bernie told them to do it, but Bernie is responsible for who he hires. And, based on past performance, it would not surprise me to know that Jeff Weaver was a party to the breach.

    Parent

    The more I read, the more I think the (5.00 / 4) (#138)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:58:32 PM EST
    timing of this is highly suspicious.  And the fact that DSW is involved doesn't help.

    Josh Uretsky says that this was just the latest collapse of the firewall - that they notified the vendor two months ago about this kind of thing happening, and that there have been ongoing problems.  What no one seems to be addressing is that these glitches exposed the Sanders campaign's data, making its information vulnerable to being accessed by other campaigns.  

    What does the DNC say about that?  Why didn't we hear about those problems then?  If it was your job to manage a database where the firewalls kept coming down, how much confidence do you have in the integrity of the information in the database?  Aren't you going to be checking it regularly to make sure it isn't being exposed to other campaigns?

    I'm sorry, but this has DWS written all over it.

    Hey, I almost forgot: there's a Democratic debate tomorrow night, 6 days before Christmas, when no one has anything else to do, nowhere else to be, so of course, as many people as possible will be tuning in to see it, right?  DWS, again.  Makes me think that if she had her way, there would be no debates.

    Why the holy fk can't the fking DNC just let us have a fking election?

    These people are really getting on my nerves.

    Parent

    And (none / 0) (#139)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 04:02:21 PM EST
    Going against NFL football, and the NY market as well

    Parent
    Massive overlap (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 04:09:40 PM EST
    No doubt

    Parent
    Oops (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 04:12:46 PM EST
    Can't forget Cowboys Nation as well

    So which gets more viewers,

    The debate, or the football game?

    Parent

    Ah yes, (2.00 / 1) (#63)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:45:44 AM EST
    The conspiracy theorists rise!  Can't believe it took this long. Here's one back at ya:  it's a set up by the Sanders campaign to attack Clinton without attacking her!  Bernie's name has been out of the news for a while, and he's getting killed on foreign policy, so let's do something to shake things uo!

    The Clinton campaign hasn't commented, and I could be wrong, but my guess is, when asked about it at the debate tomorrow night, she will take a pass on making this an attack item, even though the moderators will try to make it so.

    And of course, if the reverse were true, there would already be special committees set up to investigate.
    (For the record, I too, think this is a big pile of nothing.  The staffer has been dealt with and the security needs to be checked.  End of story)


    Parent

    Do you have a link to any (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:12:55 AM EST
    major blog or paper suggesting that Bernie's campaign was able to get the vender to Fck up the system so that he could attack Clinton without really attacking her.

    It is not the end of the story until the DNC restores Sander's ability to access the database.

    What was in the news prior to the DNC snafu:

    Sanders camp had one of its very best days of the campaign, announcing two million contributions and major endorsements from a leading labor union and progressive group.  


    Parent
    Do you have a link (none / 0) (#75)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:35:12 AM EST
    Proving that this is a DNC conspiracy against Sanders?  Do you have a link showing that the DNC leaked this to the press - especially because it was a day that Sanders announced the number of donors he supposedly has (I haven't seen it attributed, so it could just have easily been the Sanders camp who released this info).

    To answer your question - no, I don't have a link because I was making up a conspiracy theory like Charlie Pierce seems to be doing.

    Is the DNC firmly in Hillary's camp?  I have no idea, but to the effect that she is actually electable, where Sanders is not, then sure, they are in her camp.  That's kind of their job.  And they aren't above it - they did it in 2008.  But the biggest piece of "evidence" that there's a conspiracy is because they're "only" holding 6 debates.  As if we need as many as the Republicans who have 17 people running who need airtime.

    This will be resolved before tomorrow's debate, I predict.

    Parent

    O.K. (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:52:59 AM EST
    So you admit that this is a conspiracy theory that you made up. I linked to what pundits were saying on the blogs and in the papers and you made up a story line.

    BTW, the number of debates is not the only issue. Another issue which has been clearly stated is the scheduling of when the debates occur. Saturday evenings are not considered prime time to hold debates. A Saturday night before Christmas is even more questionable. I can provide data that proves that the Democratic debate on Saturday night were viewed by significantly fewer viewers than the Republican debates held on week nights.

    Yes, the DNC is not above structuring things to get the results they want and yes, they did it in 2008. And yes, you IIRC strongly objected to their actions. You definitely had a different opinion when they took actions defermental to your chosen candidate then now when they benefit the candidate you chose.

    Parent

    So you admit (none / 0) (#97)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:47:37 PM EST
    That your "proof" is what certain pundits (who are known to dislike the Clinton's) speculate may be a conspiracy?  That is quite a stretch.  My made up conspiracy theory is just as viable as Charlie Pierce's.

    And if you read my comment, you'll see I freely admitted that the DNC has acted shady before, so your "gotcha" is falling about as far as Jeb Bush's poll numbers.  However, the big difference between 2008 and now is that there were two candidates who could conceivably  win a general election, whereas now, there just isn't.  Why would the DNC leak this to manufacture a scandal now?  HRC's numbers are growing in the polls and why would the Dems want a scandal anyways?  To give the Republicans a break from coverage of their craziness?

    And sure, the debate schedule isn't ideal.  But since HRC is an excellent debater who has a strong and vast grasp of issues, this isn't exactly a huge win for her.  (If she makes a gaffe, it won't matter if viewership will be down, since the whole world will know about it and it will be played ad nauseam.  But fewer people will actually get to see if she knocks it out of the park.  Is that an advantage?)

    I get that the media isn't paying attention to Bernie Sanders. But jumping on the conspiracy bandwagon because the campaign made a mistake is not the way to go.

    Parent

    Ah, so Pierce and Sargent's (none / 0) (#99)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 01:17:27 PM EST
    opinions are based on their dislike of Hillary.

    Yes, you can definitely tell that Sargent's critique of Hillary's debate performance was written by a real hater.

    This came up again and again. Clinton used her opening statement to immediately call for doing "more to help us balance family and work," coming out for "paid family leave." This isn't to say that the other candidates didn't also support such policies. But Clinton was clearly more passionate than her rivals in discussing them, and in those moments, she had plainly found her sweet spot.

    They were among her best performances. When CNN's Dana Bash pushed Clinton by asking whether paid family leave programs would hurt small businesses, she pushed back hard, making a wonky case that such programs can be smartly designed to avoid the downsides Republicans predict from such policies. (See Jonathan Cohn's piece on how Clinton got this right.) Clinton used the discussion over structural racism to pivot to a call for more investment in early childhood education. And one of her strongest moments came at the end, when she attacked Republicans for opposing government-mandated family leave while arguing: "They don't mind having big government to interfere with a woman's right to choose and to try to take down Planned Parenthood." This brought in women's health issues, which is to say, women's economics.



    Parent
    There is not much damage (none / 0) (#80)
    by CoralGables on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:49:27 AM EST
    that can come from this. Sanders is as far behind Clinton as Santorum is behind Trump.

    Parent
    December 2007 (none / 0) (#87)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:07:45 PM EST
    Clinton Maintains Large Lead Over Obama Nationally

    by Joseph Carroll
    Leads Obama by 18 points in latest poll
    PRINCETON, NJ -- Despite extensive news coverage of Illinois Sen. Barack Obama's improved position in Iowa and New Hampshire recently, there has been little change in the positioning of the Democratic presidential candidates on a national level, according to a new USA Today/Gallup poll. New York Sen. Hillary Clinton continues to have a substantial lead over the group of Democrats vying to win the party's nomination for president in 2008. Obama remains a solid second, as he has been all year, with former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards continuing to hold down third place. Clinton's support improved modestly from a dip earlier this month and is nearly back to her high levels from the late summer and early fall. Obama's support has shown a gradual improvement in the past month, and has returned to its late summer/early fall levels.

    Democratic Nomination Ballot Trends

    The Dec. 14-16, 2007, poll shows that Clinton continues to have a large lead over her competitors, with 45% of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents saying they support her for the nomination. Twenty-seven percent of Democrats support Obama and 15% support Edwards. Sen. Joe Biden (3%), Gov. Bill Richardson (2%), and Rep. Dennis Kucinich (2%) are well behind in what has pretty much been a three-person race the entire campaign.

    Link



    Parent
    Daydreaming is fun isn't it? (none / 0) (#91)
    by CoralGables on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:17:40 PM EST
    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:29:23 PM EST
    Polls in Dec. 2007 indicated HRC would win in a landslide. The story line was no way Hillary could lose but Obama became the 44th president.

    Headline today.

    Bernie Sanders Can Still Catch Hillary Clinton In Iowa

    There is clearly a relationship (just as there is between national primary resultsand national polls from this same period). But just six of the 12 candidates leading the Iowa polls at this point went on to win the caucuses. Those who led and then lost include Democrat Howard Dean in 2004, Republican Mitt Romney in 2008, Republican Herman Cain in 2012 and, of course, Clinton in 2008. Not only didn't they win, none came particularly close.

    Now, I'm not saying that Sanders will win the nomination or that O'Malley will find his way north of 5 percent. But there's still time for a Sanders upset in Iowa. At the very least, there's time for him to finish closer to Clinton than current surveys indicate.

    If Clinton were to underperform expectations in Iowa, it could easily lead to a loss for her in New Hampshire, which has consistently been Sanders's strongest state. We know from past campaigns that candidates who underperform in Iowa tend to do worse than expected in New Hampshire, while those who outperform expectations in Iowa tend to also outperform expectations in the Granite State. The ultimate example of this is Democrat Gary Hart's stunning upset of Walter Mondale in the 1984 New Hampshire primary. Hart's stronger-than-expected second-place finish in Iowa gave him a lot of positive media coverage and momentum going into New Hampshire.

    link

    The author does think HRC will win the nomination acknowledges that it is not a done deal.

    Parent

    I think that second question (none / 0) (#61)
    by CST on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:35:39 AM EST
    Is a bit of a red-herring.  Let's just say that if the NYTimes had gotten wind of it, one way or another, it would be front page news.

    I also think that Clinton supporters in that regard would be out front blaming the staffer just like Bernie supporters are - and they aren't wrong.

    But while you might be right about the DNC having a Bernie issue, every media organization has a Hillary issue, and frankly, it's hard to get my outrage up when it happens the other way a little bit.

    All that being said, this is a non-story, and I don't think anyone really cares other than as a weird kind of "gotcha" moment, and frankly it makes the DNC look completely incompetent.

    Parent

    I don't think Pierce's point (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:54:15 AM EST
    was that the papers would not have printed the story if the DNC had leaked it to the papers.

    He is questioning if the DNC would have leaked the story to begin with.

    Parent

    I get that (none / 0) (#67)
    by CST on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:04:52 AM EST
    I don't disagree - although I think there's a decent chance that someone - whether at the DNC or on Bernie's staff, might have leaked it.

    My point was that it is more than a bit tone deaf to whine about unfair coverage of a "scandal" compared to Hillary Clinton - however it got there.

    Parent

    Pierce clearly questions why the DNC (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:37:03 AM EST
    leaked the story. None of the stories I read indicated that anyone other than the DNC leaked the story.

    It not merely a matter of leaking a story to the press. The DNC has taken putative action against the Sander's campaign. The DNC has prohibited the Sander's campaign from accessing the database until further notice. Based on the WaPo article  this loss has the potential to cause damage to his campaign.

    Also, this leak drowns out the positive news about his campaign reaching a milestone in campaign contributions and the endorsements he received.

    Parent

    Is it a non story or does it (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:02:57 AM EST
    have the potential to cause damage. Washington Post:

    The DNC has told the Sanders campaign that it will not be allowed access to the data again until it provides an explanation as well as assurances that all Clinton data has been destroyed.

    Having his campaign cut off from the national party's voter data is a strategic setback for Sanders -- and could be a devastating blow if it lasts. The episode also raises questions about the DNC's ability to provide strategic resources to campaigns and state parties.

    It is understandable that the DNC is demanding a full accounting from the Sanders campaign, since the DNC should get to the bottom of what happened, so that the campaigns can have confidence in the security of voter data. But, based on what we know at this point about what happened, preventing the Sanders camp from accessing voter data for any meaningful length of time is not tenable.

    Making this appear worse, it comes after the Sanders camp had one of its very best days of the campaign, announcing two million contributions and major endorsements from a leading labor union and progressive group. It comes just before the Democrats are set to debate on Saturday night, in a gathering that is expected to attract fewer viewers than this week's GOP debate did, due to poor debate scheduling that already has Clinton's rivals asking whether the DNC is gaming the process to benefit her. (I think that charge is largely unfair, but it's true that the Clinton camp did lobby the DNC early on for a lower-exposure debate schedule, and the DNC was to some degree sensitive to the Clinton camp's demands.)

    link
     



    Parent
    If Hillary was asking my advise (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:20:52 AM EST
    I would tell her to demand their access the continues immediately.  

    Parent
    I think that would be good advise (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:54:17 AM EST
    It is not a non-event (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 01:45:17 PM EST
    The DNC has ordered NGP VAN -- the technology company -- to conduct an audit.

    "We have also instructed NGP VAN to conduct a full audit of the system to ensure the integrity of the data and the security of the system for the campaigns that use it, and to begin a review process with every campaign and user to ensure they understand and abide by the rules governing the use of the system," Miranda told ABC News in a statement.

    The DNC may also order an independent audit by a data security firm, in addition to the audit that NGP VAN is conducting, according to a Democratic official.

    link

    This is a "penalization that could affect the presidential hopeful's field organizing and campaigning efforts six weeks before the first primary votes are cast in the Iowa caucuses."

    Parent

    Fwiw (none / 0) (#104)
    by CST on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 01:47:26 PM EST
    Bernie is suing and if I had to guess I'd say the DNC drops this nonsense.

    It's not helping anyone, not Hillary, not Bernie, and certainly not "the party" to have this $hit going on.

    Parent

    Doesn't sound like DWS (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:07:54 PM EST
    wants to drop this nonsense. Latest from DWS:

    She brushed off the threat of legal action. "The Sanders campaign doesn't have anything other than bluster to put out there," she said on CNN.
    ...
    It also lays out the stipulations for Sanders to regain access to the voter file -- "until the DNC is provided with a full accounting of whether or not this information was used and the way in which it was disposed."

    The firewall was down two months ago and the Sander's campaign privately notified the DNC about it even though they thought their data had been accessed.

    I don't care what candidate you support, the DNC needs to quit fcking with elections (2008 and now).

    Parent

    If I was a Bernie adviser... (none / 0) (#108)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:20:47 PM EST
    I'd tell him to tell Schultz to stick her database up her arse...since his only chance to win is bringing large chunks of new voters to the polls.  The formerly apathetic and hopeless.  

    I don't those voters he needs are in their stupid database, and he sure as hell doesn't need it for fundraising...the internet handles that.

    Parent

    You know (none / 0) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:22:29 PM EST
    that is kind of what I was thinking. I mean if Bernie supposedly appeals to people that don't normally vote why does he care about a database anyway?

    Parent
    o.K. It might be because (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:44:56 PM EST
    his voter information is on the database. You know the kind of information that helps candidates to get their supporters to the polls and the caucuses.

    Why does the DNC care about the database if it has no value? If it has no value, then what is the big fuss all about. If it has no value, why would anyone care if the Sander's campaign viewed Clinton data? If it has no value, aren't the DNC taking a completely unwarranted action against the Sander's campaign?

    Parent

    Okay. (none / 0) (#127)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:16:16 PM EST
    I did not know that he has his information on that database too. I was thinking that each had their own database.

    Parent
    Seriously... (none / 0) (#117)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:37:31 PM EST
    I suppose there may be procedural bureaucratic DNC crap at play I don't (nor care to) understand.

    It's time like this I wish we could just time warp to November 2016 and find a 4 way race...HRC, Bernie, Trump, and a second lunatic from the GOP side.  Wouldn't that be a great race?  No 3-way with a spoiler...4 rather distinct choices.  

    Parent

    Lordy (none / 0) (#124)
    by sj on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:02:30 PM EST
    You know (none / 0) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 01:22:29 PM MDT

    that is kind of what I was thinking. I mean if Bernie supposedly appeals to people that don't normally vote why does he care about a database anyway?

    This is the same logic as "if you're so psychic, why did you have that car accident?"

    Logic fail. Sniping success.

    Parent

    Nope (none / 0) (#148)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 05:07:49 PM EST
    Hillary's supporters are cashing in.

    Brian Fallon, Hillary for America's national press secretary, tweets:

    Brian Fallon-
    @brianefallon

    Four users linked to @SenSanders campaign steal data from a rival campaign. Only one is fired. Guess the others get a pat on the back



    Parent
    They should (none / 0) (#109)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:21:09 PM EST
    just have the audit done quickly and have it be over with. Bernie suing does not make him look good.

    Parent
    So says a very partisan Hillary supporter (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:32:29 PM EST
    This action reinforces the already wide spread belief that the DNC and specifically DWS, is rigging the election for HRC. If anything this action will fire up Bernie supporters, add more supporters who like candidates who buck the establishment  and generate additional campaign donations for Bernie.

    If anyone looks bad, it is DWS and the DNC.

    Parent

    The fact (2.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:18:34 PM EST
    that one of Bernie's employees was ordering people to pilfer information does not speak well of his campaign. Somehow his employees pilfering information is Hillary's fault? This apparently is not some guy who didn't know what he was doing. He knew exactly what he was doing. I don't blame Bernie for what happened but you blame Hillary?

    Parent
    You might want to go back and actually (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:38:43 PM EST
    read all of my comments regarding this issue.

    At no time did I blame Hillary. All of my comments and all of my links were placing the blame on the DNC and DWS.

    The fact that you have stated that you didn't know Sanders' voter information was on the Van system is a clear indication that you did not actually take a few minutes to read about the issue or read the subsequent comments.

    Making things up as you go along does not give your comments much weight.

    Parent

    You should (2.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:43:30 PM EST
    read up on this. Sanders has not been truthful about what has been going on. I linked to an article in the other open thread about it.

    Parent
    If someone on Sanders (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:58:06 PM EST
    campaign was not truthful, does that somehow give you permission to distort my comments and make untruthful claims about what I wrote.

    If someone on Sanders' campaign was untruthful, does that somehow eliminate the fact that you did not spend enough time to read about the issue to know that Bernie's voter information is on the VAN system before you made numerous comments on the subject.

    I'm glad that you finally took the time to actually read what was written in the Time article because you surely didn't take the time to read what I actually wrote before you started to make stuff up.

    Parent

    What you did there is interesting (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:58:23 PM EST
    Your link says Sanders supporters.   But you said Sanders.   Isn't that sort of what you were accusing Mo of doing?

    Parent
    There (none / 0) (#140)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 04:06:54 PM EST
    are a lot of people saying a lot of things right now.

    Parent
    Yes but the subject of this (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 04:22:04 PM EST
    sub thread is you distorting my comments and the fact that you are doing what you erroneously accused me of doing.

    Parent
    It is clear from your comments that (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 04:07:53 PM EST
    you have not educated yourself on this matter - why this doesn't keep you from making statements like this:

    one of Bernie's employees was ordering people to pilfer information

    is beyond me - although I'm not particularly surprised.

    And while you say you don't blame Sanders, actually, you kind of do: that's what "does not speak well for his campaign" does - it blames Sanders.

    It was Josh Uretsky's job to manage this aspect of the campaign, so yes, he knew what he was doing.  The problem is that you clearly don't know, but have no problem making these kinds of irresponsible comments.

    Parent

    According (none / 0) (#144)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 04:13:35 PM EST
    to the Washington Post yes, he was telling them to "look" at the information IIRC. However as more as come out there were four employees searching through the information and compiling lists of voters in NH and IA under the direction of Uretsky.

    Parent
    But you said he "ordered them to (none / 0) (#146)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 04:53:10 PM EST
    pilfer" the information, didn't you?  That's not the same as "look," at least as I understand what these two words mean.

    I still think there's something rotten here.  It just doesn't make sense to me that two months ago the Sanders campaign reported problems with the firewall, making voter information accessible by any of the campaigns.  There continued to be problems, which were duly reported.  I am not aware there is any indication that Sanders' people accessed and made lists on any of these other occasions - so why now?  

    If lists were being made, there's no question that was wrong, and as the guy responsible for this area of the campaign, he takes the fall.

    I'm just not convinced we know everything, that we're getting the whole story. That DWS is insisting the Sanders campaign prove a negative before it gets its access back is fking with the election.

    Which I think is the whole point.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#150)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 06:34:13 PM EST
    from reports it would seem they were pilfering the information.

    Well, the data company says there was no problem with the firewall. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see. It might be that there wasn't a problem months ago and he's just saying that now to cover up.

    My understanding is what DWS is asking for is the information that was taken and a one page report of summary data.

    Parent

    Actually no (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 06:41:10 PM EST
    They said there was a known bug.  There is a link on the other thread to an LATimes pieces.

    Parent
    It also looks bad for Bernie. (none / 0) (#131)
    by caseyOR on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:27:07 PM EST
    It appears that his campaign has been less than truthful about exactly what the Sanders staffers did and did not do with the Clinton data, according to TIME Magazine.

    Sanders campaign has said only one staffer breached the Clinton data, but it appears that at least four viewed the Clinton data. Sanders campaign has said they only looked, did not take, but the audit shows that Sanders' people created files on their computers loaded with Clinton voter data.

    Parent

    This does Hillary much more (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:36:48 PM EST
    harm than good. Bernie is bringing more people into the process. It is not to HRC's benefits for the DNC to give them a reason to throw up their hands in disgust and not vote.

    Parent
    Of course Bernie should sue. (5.00 / 6) (#120)
    by caseyOR on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:49:41 PM EST
    Outsider status notwithstanding, Bernie's campaign info, voter information compiled by the Sanders campaign, is held on that system. He needs access to the system to have access to his own database.

    The DNC audit needs to be fast, as in finish it today. Make sure all the holes are plugged, and restore the Sanders' campaign's access.

    Parent

    Okay. (none / 0) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:14:57 PM EST
    I did not realize his own information was on there too.

    Parent
    Personally I think the opposite (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by sj on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:58:56 PM EST
    They should (none / 0) (#109)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 01:21:09 PM MDT

    just have the audit done quickly and have it be over with. Bernie suing does not make him look good.

    I think it doesn't make the DNC look good. All Democratic candidates should have access to the VAN database.


    Parent
    I agree with all of that (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:47:38 AM EST
    I also think if it was reversed Sanders supporters would be crashing Great Orange saying Hillary personally ordered it.

    Parent
    It's gotta be you pointing out their (none / 0) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:10:11 AM EST
    Various forms of denial helping this along.

    Parent
    Sanders v Clinton (none / 0) (#53)
    by ragebot on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:11:22 AM EST
    Not sure what to make of this.

    Seems the DNC was patching their database of dem voters and someone from Sanders minions accessed some Clinton that was not, but should have been protected.

    Any of you dem insiders know more about this.

    Sounds like a big nothing... (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:29:49 AM EST
    to me...followed by the DNC carrying water for their preferred candidate by trying to make something out of nothing.

    Parent
    It's called manufacturing controversy. (none / 0) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:29:13 AM EST
    Every major campaign regardless of party affiliation attracts all kinds of supporters, of whom some are the kind of people who will engage or attempt to engage in unethical conduct in the mistaken belief that they're somehow helping their candidate, when the reverse is actually true.

    Neither campaign really needs the distraction, and each would be foolish to take the media's bait. Rather, the Sanders campaign will likely deal with it as a disciplinary matter. Bernie Sanders will apologize to Hillary Clinton personally and privately. Her campaign will decline to comment on the matter publicly. And both candidates and their campaigns will move on, leaving their armchair supporters on the fringe to continue to flail away at each other online over at Big Orange.

    These are nothing more than sideshows. And sideshows will be part of every campaign for as long as we have elections. The Ron Paul campaign ran into sideshow controversy in 2012 when some of its supporters literally attempted to purchase the support of select Iowa caucus delegates. Did the candidate authorize it? Likely not. Was it helpful to him? No, it was an embarrassment.

    And that's all this is.

    Parent

    Would agree.. (none / 0) (#114)
    by sj on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:33:59 PM EST
    Without pix it didn't happen (none / 0) (#55)
    by ragebot on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:16:00 AM EST
    I always thought the tin foil hat thing was a figurative not literal thing.

    Seems that is not the case, at least for this IRS guy.

    I Think It's Odd... (none / 0) (#166)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:17:39 PM EST
    ...that you thought it was figurative only.

    The number of mentally ill people who think that foil blocks the rays used by the government to control people's thoughts, is not a small number.

    But the funny thing is when the vastness of the governments spying programs was unveiled, many were saying something like all those fools in tinfoil hats don't look so dumb now.  Which I would imagine increased the numbers and fortified the positions of wearies.

    Parent

    OTOH, (none / 0) (#197)
    by Zorba on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 05:37:19 PM EST
    Aluminum foil wrapped around your credit cards and passports apparently blocks the ability to read the RFID chips imbedded in them.
    So maybe the tinfoil hat crowd is not so crazy.  Especially if they have a chip implanted in their brains.    ;-)

    Parent
    You know it's a weird election season (none / 0) (#56)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:17:50 AM EST
    When you are rooting for a conservative radio host because he's telling the truth. (Full transcript - quote about 3/4 down).

    Last night on Erin Burnett Out Front (on CNN), conservative radio talk show host, Ben Ferguson, got into it with Donald Trump's National Spokesperson, Katrina Pierson. The topic was Vladimir Putin's comments regarding Trump, and Ms. Pierson showed that has about as much grasp of foreign policy (and history) as her boss does, which is to say, not much.

    FERGUSON: Katrina, with all due respect -- with all due respect, let's be intellectually honest here. Don't tell me that you actually -- maybe the Trump campaign believes this -- that somehow he's a savior in the Middle East and Donald Trump is somehow in line with Vladimir Putin on foreign policy is kind of embarrassing if you actually think that's what the foreign policy of the United States to be, in propping Assad up --

    PIERSON: No, let's be intellectually honest here, how many countries has the United States invaded in the Middle East, taking out dictators, creating vacuums, making ISIS grow stronger. Ben, is that what you're saying?

    FERGUSON: Are you saying that Donald Trump's foreign policy would be not to go into Afghanistan specifically and not go after al Qaeda after 9/11?

    (CROSSTALK)

    FERGUSON: You said we had wars in the Middle East. The first war that we're talking about is Afghanistan.

    PIERSON: Actually, Iraq is the first war. Actually, Iraq.

    FERGUSON: We went in to Afghanistan first after 9/11. You should know that. We went into Iraq second. You should also know that.



    Sounds to me like they both have a point (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:31:28 AM EST
    Picking a favorite would be like picking sides in Game of Thrones.   They are both right.  They are both idiots.  Can anyone make an honest case that one side winning would be substantially better than the other side winning?

    Parent
    I was more syruck (none / 0) (#62)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:37:39 AM EST
    By the fact that she kept insisting that we went to war first in Iraq after 9/11.

    This is a basic fact that a high level campaign person should know.

    Parent

    Afghanistan is not (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:18:53 AM EST
    a country "in the Middle East," nor is it a country the U.S. invaded to "tak[e] out [a] dictator." I certainly carry no water for Trump or his campaign, but I don't think this attack on Trump's spokesperson is fair at all.

    Parent
    The G8 (none / 0) (#71)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:26:22 AM EST
    Considers Afghanistan as part of the Middle East.

    Parent
    Interesting. It's only a figure of speech, (none / 0) (#74)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:31:30 AM EST
    anyway. It's not in the "Far East," so I suppose you could say that. (Is there a "Near East"?) I would have said, and thought, that Afghanistan was in Central Asia.

    Parent
    Do you think either side (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:39:18 AM EST
    Could find it on a map without labels?

    Parent
    There are several definitions (none / 0) (#78)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:39:50 AM EST
    So you aren't wrong.

    And then again, I'm from the Midwest, and that's something like 8000 miles from the Mid East.

    Go figure.

    Parent

    Yeh, well, we both (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:56:53 AM EST
    now live in what is called the "Mid-Atlantic" area of the East Coast.
    Mid-Atlantic?  The Atlantic is a long, long ocean, and we don't live anywhere near the middle of it (assuming you are only talking about latitude, not longitude, as well, or we'd be on an island).
    Who makes up these designations, anyway?     ;-)

    Parent
    And why is it called the Midwest? (none / 0) (#101)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 01:29:22 PM EST
    Definitely Mideast for westerners.

    Parent
    Because... (none / 0) (#102)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 01:39:40 PM EST
    NYC is the center of the universe, Silly! ;)

    Parent
    "Near East" and "Middle East" (none / 0) (#79)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:47:59 AM EST
    Overlap, and are very Eurocentric terms, in any case.

    The term Far East usually refers to East Asia, including Mongolia, China, Korea, Japan, and Southeast Asia. It sometimes includes the Philippines, Indonesia, and the other Oceanic countries, and it sometimes includes eastern Russia and the Indian subcontinent. The Near East is the eastern Mediterranean region once dominated by the Ottoman Empire. Middle East--the newest of the three terms--originally referred to everything between the other two Easts (Mesopotamia to Burma), but it now usually denotes the Near East in addition to Afghanistan, Iran, and the Arabian peninsula.

    Link.

    Parent

    I've always considered the Far East to be (none / 0) (#82)
    by CoralGables on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:52:29 AM EST
    Naples, Florida, but I guess that's very FloridaEastCoastcentric.

    Parent
    It's entirely Florida (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:02:28 PM EST
    centric, never mind the East Coast part.
    You do realize that the entire East Coast of the United States, north of about the middle of South Carolina, is farther east than Florida?

    Parent
    Well that would make everything north (none / 0) (#89)
    by CoralGables on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:08:42 PM EST
    of South Carolina the far west to me. That would put you in the northwest from my Floridaeastcoastcentric standpoint.

    Parent
    FWIW... (none / 0) (#167)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:28:56 PM EST
    ...in that blurb above it's clear they both believe Afghanistan is in the Middle East.  Doesn't matter anyways, because it's clear she thinks Iraq happened before Afghanistan, which was JB's point.

    I would think if she felt the same as you she would have mentioned it instead of insisting that Iraq happened before Afghanistan.  

    Parent

    So what! (none / 0) (#88)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:08:13 PM EST
    Afghanistan is adjacent to the Middle East. So too, for that matter, is its immediate neighbor Pakistan. But other than that, neither country's populations have much at all in common with their Arab and Persian neighbors to the east, save for the fact that they share an Islamic faith.

    Further, straddling the border of both Afghanistan and Pakistan is a large tribe of some 40 million people called the Pashtun, who probably could not care any less about the G8's designation of roughly one-third their number as "Middle Easterners," by sole virtue of their residency on the Afghan side of the frontier.

    The G8's designation of Afghanistan as a Middle Eastern nation actually serves as a likely and unfortunate hindrance to the pursuit of peace in the region of South Asia. That's because it underscores the historical fact that since the 19th century, western diplomats have artificially divided without due cause peoples such as the Pashtun, who otherwise consider themselves wholly autonomous and really tend to not pay much if any attention to artificial western political constructs, such as the governments in Kabul and Islamabad.

    And if we really desire and seek peace in south Asia, then at some point in time we will eventually need to deal directly with Pashtun elders, as well as the elders of other tribes in the region, in order to achieve it. They're the ones who likely possess the capacity to marginalize the Taliban in the Hindu Kush, and not the presidents of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Ummm....slight typo there, (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 03:14:20 PM EST
    Donald.  Their Arab and Persian neighbors are to the west of Afghanistan and Pakistan, not to the east.
    But I do agree that the erstwhile colonial and other western powers royally messed things up in the entire region by drawing arbitrary country borders without respect to the ethnic, tribal, and religious differences of the populations.  They threw together peoples who did not want to be together, and divided those like the Pashtuns (and the Kurds, for instance) who wanted to be together.

    Parent
    Differences in parenting (none / 0) (#60)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:35:30 AM EST
    Most of this is not really surprising.

    American parents want similar things for their children, the Pew report and past research have found: for them to be healthy and happy, honest and ethical, caring and compassionate. There is no best parenting style or philosophy, researchers say, and across income groups, 92 percent of parents say they are doing a good job at raising their children.

    Yet they are doing it quite differently.

    Middle-class and higher-income parents see their children as projects in need of careful cultivation, says Annette Lareau, a University of Pennsylvania sociologist whose groundbreaking research on the topic was published in her book "Unequal Childhoods: Class, Race and Family Life." They try to develop their skills through close supervision and organized activities, and teach children to question authority figures and navigate elite institutions.

    Working-class parents, meanwhile, believe their children will naturally thrive, and give them far greater independence and time for free play. They are taught to be compliant and deferential to adults.

    There are benefits to both approaches. Working-class children are happier, more independent, whine less and are closer with family members, Ms. Lareau found. Higher-income children are more likely to declare boredom and expect their parents to solve their problems.

    Yet later on, the more affluent children end up in college and en route to the middle class, while working-class children tend to struggle. Children from higher-income families are likely to have the skills to navigate bureaucracies and succeed in schools and workplaces, Ms. Lareau said.

    But it is puzzling that lower income parents tend to raise more independent children who defer to authority, while higher class parents raise children to question authority, but the kids expect their parents to solve their problems.

    Also interesting are the findings that less educated parents think there's no such thing as too much involvement in their child's education, but white, wealthy, or college educated parents say too much involvement can be bad. (Aren't those the same people who are helicopter parents who are always at the school wondering why Johnny is only getting an A- in math, instead of an A?)

    This isn't puzzling at all (none / 0) (#112)
    by sj on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:30:45 PM EST
    But it is puzzling that lower income parents tend to raise more independent children who defer to authority, while higher class parents raise children to question authority, but the kids expect their parents to solve their problems.
    OTOH, this goes against my preconceptions also:
    Also interesting are the findings that less educated parents think there's no such thing as too much involvement in their child's education, but white, wealthy, or college educated parents say too much involvement can be bad
    But then I thought about it.

    Parent
    yea when you think about it (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by CST on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 02:37:01 PM EST
    I feel like lower income/less educated parents are trying to prepare their children for the world that they know and live in, and likewise for the higher income/more educated parents.

    Lower income people need to be independent, but likewise, it can be dangerous for them to question authority too much or "talk back".  As a parent, that's something you might try to protect them from, while still providing them resources to make it on their own.  Likewise, they may feel the need to be more invested in their education because it won't happen otherwise.

    For higher income/more educated parents, they are trying to raise children who "make the world their own" and be authority figures.  But in all likelihood they will need significant help from their parents to get there.  And they don't need to be over involved in their education, because they live in places where they can trust that the system in place will do a decent job of it.

    Parent

    Lets bomb Agrabah!!! (none / 0) (#155)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 09:49:30 PM EST
    A recent survey from Public Policy Polling asked respondents their opinion on bombing Agrabah. Among Trump supporters, 41 percent were in favor of bombing, while 51 percent were not sure and only 9 percent opposed.

    That's great . . . I've been wondering how many other people want to be bombing Agrabah, now that there have been these terrorist attacks!

    My only problem is that I don't see anything at the websites of Cruz, Rubio or Trump about bombing Agrabah . . .  I think they're soft on terrorism!!

    Aladdin might object (none / 0) (#157)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:20:10 PM EST
    Alladin the Muslim terrorist? (none / 0) (#158)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:39:27 PM EST
    Well, if we bomb from Damascus to Tehran, I am sure we can find and include Agrabah in there somewhere .  . . and those people who might object can just move  . . .

    Parent
    kooky UN resolution (none / 0) (#156)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 10:19:18 PM EST
    The un has a resolution saying that Syria needs to have nonsectarian governance created by free and fair elections.

    However, in a Muslim majority country, absent very strong constitutional guarantees or the army stepping in, "free and fair elections" mean the imposition of Sharia law.

    Sharia law immediately places Muslims ahead of all others . . . and as it is interpreted, it tends to place some Muslim sects ahead of others, invariably in practice.

    Guess which college... (none / 0) (#168)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:29:43 PM EST
    Not only does the Banh Mi Sandwich and General Tso's Chicken at the cafeteria taste like arse, it's also racist cultural appropriation!  We demand to see the president.

    If you guessed Oberlin, winner winner chicken dinner! Just not General Tso's, you racist privileged sh&tlord.  No MSG for you!  

    Oh man (none / 0) (#169)
    by CST on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:40:17 PM EST
    I took a road trip to Oberlin when I was in college, with 3 friends.  I miss those girls.  It was a hell of a trip.  And you know what, they should demand higher quality Banh Mi!

    That being said, it's a bit ironic that they are complaining about cultural appropriation considering that Banh Mi has strong french influences from when the French ruled Vietnam and all of the food we call Chinese food is already Americanized Chinese food.

    Parent

    The north Vietnamese paid close (none / 0) (#170)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:45:16 PM EST
    attention to making the perfect pain au chocolat.

    Parent
    Yes... (none / 0) (#171)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:53:02 PM EST
    more than a bit ironic.

    Unless I'm mistaken, General Tso's is totally a Chinese-American thing...no one in China eats that sh*t.  

    Much like nobody in Ireland eats corned beef and cabbage...it was "appropriated" from the Jewish people by Irish-Americans.  Beef was strictly for rich people back in Ireland...Paddy ate pork or lamb.  But in the New World, corned beef was pretty cheap.

    I think most cultures consider cultural appropriation a compliment, at least as far as food is concerned.  

    Parent

    American "Chinese food" (none / 0) (#172)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:56:16 PM EST
    Has very little to do with what actual Chinese people eat in China.   I've had a few Chinese friends who have exposed me to actual Chinese food.  

    Yikes. Let's just say there's a reason a lot of it is not commonly served to Americans.

    Parent

    The closest correlation I can make (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:57:38 PM EST
    To popular culture is Klingon food.

    Parent
    Whereever it came from... (none / 0) (#175)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    if it's got MSG, it's for me.  Be it Chicken w/ Garlic Sauce or Doritos.

    Parent
    No MSG (none / 0) (#177)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:12:14 PM EST
    in chicken toes

    Parent
    I had chicken feet (none / 0) (#178)
    by CST on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:15:01 PM EST
    In Jamaica once.  Once was enough.

    Parent
    Ever had (none / 0) (#180)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:19:16 PM EST
    Loach soup?

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:23:34 PM EST
    Loach soup may be Korean or Japanese.

    Always had a weakness for Asians.

    Parent

    Worse Thing I Ever Saw a Human Eat... (none / 0) (#191)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:36:59 PM EST
    ...was gf eating these golf-ball sized octopuses that came on her noodles, yes there is a joke in there.

    Not parts, not squid, little purple octopuses with eyes and tentacles, that apparently you just pop in your mouth and chew for a long time.

    I think it would have made the most battle hardened Klingon, queasy.

    Parent

    no and I googled (none / 0) (#184)
    by CST on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:27:55 PM EST
    and... You know I'm a firm believer in trying anything once.  But that looks like it would be a tough one.

    Parent
    I've had more than a few (none / 0) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:39:15 PM EST
    Encounters with Asians.  One was quite extended.  One morning I woke up to the most gawdawful smell.   Honestly my first thought was the septic system had exploded.   I walked into the kitchen and he was in the process of "surprising me" with mackerel for breakfast.

    It took months to get the smell out of the house.

    But he was totally worth it.

    Parent

    I ate some weird things (none / 0) (#187)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:29:50 PM EST
    when I was in SE Asia in the late 70's. But, I tried to be careful. I was hyper-sensitized from the get-go...my second day at the outdoor marketplace in Seoul, I walked by a long table of... dead puppies for sale. As food. That pretty much colored my whole experience there.

    Vancouver, BC has some of the most authentic Chinese food I've ever had on this continent. And some of it is really scary looking, foul-smelling stuff.

    Parent

    Indeed (none / 0) (#188)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:33:29 PM EST
    I love them.  I love their culture.  But their food is weird.

    And their idea of "desert" is laughable.

    Parent

    The Best Vietnamese Sandwich... (none / 0) (#179)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:18:05 PM EST
    ...place in town has something they call the fifty cent devil.  

    For $.50 you can put a fried egg on anything, I don't get the feeling that is French or Asian, but purely American.

    Parent

    My Favorite Part... (none / 0) (#174)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:59:00 PM EST
    ...of the article:
    Oberlin College is known to be a fairly liberal campus, as well as actress Lena Dunham's alma mater.

    I get the feeling that white kids are feeling left out with 'black lives matter' and the whole MU university boycott, so it's time for privileged kids to take it to the streets, or cafeteria.

    Parent

    White students will feel even more left out... (none / 0) (#176)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:10:44 PM EST
    if the Black Student Union at Oberlin gets their way...they are so desperate to escape their white do-gooder classmates, they want segregated "safe spaces".  And 49 or so other demands over 14 pages.

    I'm left to wonder, if the school sucks so bad why does anyone go there?  Or does one enroll specifically for the suck?

    Parent

    Oberlin is known for its opera program (none / 0) (#181)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:22:05 PM EST
    I knew someone from Seattle Opera who studied there.

    Apparently, the bahn mi is nothing to sing about.

    Parent

    I hope the Opera department... (none / 0) (#185)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:29:34 PM EST
    has proper Italian representation, or they'll be in as much cultural appropriation trouble as the Jazz Department;)

    Parent
    Maybe Paolo Conte (none / 0) (#195)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:46:14 PM EST
    could bridge this gap, with his Boogie?

    Parent
    I like how you think shoephone... (none / 0) (#196)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:56:27 PM EST
    but it appears gaps are best highlighted, not bridged.  Surrendering to the boogie in every set of bones is treason.

    Parent
    I Was Too... (none / 0) (#183)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:26:03 PM EST
    ...drunk to remember, but I do know there were like 50 million other things to do than worry about culturally insensitive food that tastes like cr@p.

    Don't these kids know about the miracle byproduct of yeast and sugar that can aid in social interactions.

    Parent

    I was very worried (none / 0) (#186)
    by CST on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:29:49 PM EST
    About the offensive sushi that tasted like cr@p and made me feel sick.  So I stopped eating it.

    Parent
    Oh they do... (none / 0) (#189)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:33:33 PM EST
    but that yeast sugar byproduct drink is part of the patriarchal rape culture.  

    Parent
    I got drunk at Oberlin (none / 0) (#190)
    by CST on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:36:45 PM EST
    And survived.  I did chop off all of my friend's hair, but she asked me too.  I was lucky I didn't accidentally stab her, but the hair cut was terrible.

    Parent
    You Mean the Drunken... (none / 0) (#193)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:42:43 PM EST
    ...haircut by a friend didn't turn out well, surprising.

    Parent
    Would that be considered... (none / 0) (#194)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 01:44:43 PM EST
    hairstylist appropriation?  And without a license no less!

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