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Monday Open Thread

First day back after Thanksgiving is always busy. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Got the (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 08:03:34 PM EST
    Looks like Christmas at Charles Buckowski's (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by jondee on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:55:43 PM EST
    apartment..

    With William Burroughs as Belsnickel..

    Parent

    Where's Garuda? (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 08:52:35 PM EST
    Garuda (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 09:15:16 PM EST
    Does look rather christmasie.  If you only see the red and green and gold leaf and don't look that closely at the teeth and claws and fiery wings and stuff.

    Parent
    Shouldn't Maria (none / 0) (#21)
    by Peter G on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 09:16:13 PM EST
    be blue, not green?

    Parent
    Well, that is the traditional color (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by Zorba on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:47:46 PM EST
    worn by Mary as depicted in much of Roman Catholic art.
    In Greek Orthodox icons, she is generally depicted as wearing a blue dress and a red mantle (outer robe with head-covering).
    In past centuries, Mary has been painted wearing many different colors and styles of clothing.
    So choose your color.   ;-)


    Parent
    You mean we can dress Mary however we want? (none / 0) (#107)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:19:13 AM EST
    Thank you, Zorba. I'm now inspired. Hail, Mary, full of grace.

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#120)
    by Zorba on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:56:48 AM EST
    Maybe don't suggest this one to your priest.   ;-)

    Parent
    Perhaps (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 09:34:09 PM EST
    Christmas is my favorite season for decorating.    In the 80s when I lived in NY, in the Ansonia Hotel with very high ceilings, my room mate and I had a 10 foot Spruce covered with green rubber hospital gloves and cans of Spam.

    Then when i worked at Disney my pod mates, their name for a room full of cubes, and I pitched in and made a spectacular display of three singing Angels.  We used white sheets and actual song books open to a Christmas carol and three of these heads.
    Except they were not quite as nice as that one.  But the mouths were open wider.


    Parent

    lol. I think we get it. Well, I get it. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:33:00 AM EST
    I used my decorating time catching (none / 0) (#22)
    by ruffian on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 09:17:01 PM EST
    up on The Leftovers. wow - Liv brings the cray-cray! Excited about the finale - regret not watching it all week-by week to enjoy it for longer.

    Parent
    Also - 'Let the Mystery Be' - best theme song ever (none / 0) (#23)
    by ruffian on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 09:18:22 PM EST
    I like it to (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 09:22:30 PM EST
    I don't see how there can't be a season three.   I have seen speculation that, because of ratings, there might not be.

    I really hope there is.


    Parent

    Me too. I almost have been watching it as a (none / 0) (#28)
    by ruffian on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 09:28:14 PM EST
    short story anthology series. Some of the episodes stand alone as interesting little stories. They could turn it into more of something like that. Sorry I let down the HOB ratings all year - but they saw me binge watch this weekend!

    Parent
    I think Nora (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 09:38:41 PM EST
    Is my favorite character.  She has been through hell and now she finds out she's a "lens".

    The dynamic between her and the next door neighbor with the crazy fireman husband is the best.

    Parent

    YES - I was going to say that too (none / 0) (#45)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:12:40 AM EST
    Midway through season 1 she became my favorite character. Always interesting, and Carrie Coon is fantastic. I'd like to see a whole series of her and Regina King's character figuring it all out.

    Interesting dynamic of how the saner people in general stayed relatively sane during the aftermath even though losing the most. Whereas Meg goes bonkers after her mother died of natural causes, even if relatively young. I do love the character studies in play in this show.

    Parent

    Fargo was awsum last night (none / 0) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:34:13 AM EST
    Two episodes to go.

    FX has a new comedy show coming called Baskets.   It looks, um, interesting.

    LINK

    Zach Galifianakis heads to FX next year in a brand new comedy co-created with Louis C.K. and Jonathan Krisel called Baskets, and the network just released a round of new promos. Galifianakis stars as a man named Chip Baskets, who "leaves his job in the corporate world to pursue his dreams of becoming a respected clown." The series debuts on FX sometime in January; check out some more promos below:

    The promos are intriguing   The is one of him in a gourmet clown nose shop that is wonderful.

    Parent

    Fargo (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:54:01 AM EST
    There was all these little moments that refed other stuff.

    Her banging on the TV with the guy tied up, the native hit man driving by the house where the final battle of last season took place.
    There was several others but they are slipping off my brain at the moment.

    Parent

    The Native American foster son (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Towanda on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 08:15:32 PM EST
    deciding he wanted a more businesslike look from beautician Dunst was . . . so wonderfully weird.

    The episode made me feel actualized. See it, be it.

    Parent

    "You have the bone structure!" (none / 0) (#133)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:01:59 AM EST
    I almost lost it there.

    Parent
    He does (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:03:29 AM EST
    I was disappointed we did not get to see the new doo.

    Parent
    Good looking man (none / 0) (#137)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:05:18 AM EST
    I was hoping we'd see it too.

    Parent
    You can imagine Kirsten Dunsts' (none / 0) (#135)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:03:38 AM EST
    happy dances when she read these scripts. When has she ever gotten something this good?

    Parent
    It sure was! That single episode was better than (none / 0) (#131)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 10:49:06 AM EST
    most movies I have seen in the last 5 years. Hanzee had a very bad day...but not as bad as Dodd's.

    Parent
    FX (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:07:59 PM EST
    Has been doing 90 minute episodes a lot.   For Fargo and American Horror Story.  They also did it for BExecutioner.  I like that.  The really are like movies every week.  

    Parent
    I concur... (none / 0) (#88)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 05:47:01 PM EST
    Let's link it up...Iris DeMent.

    Can't wait to see how the finale goes down.

    Parent

    Were you a "Lostie" (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 06:25:53 PM EST
    I am definitely now officially a Lostie.   I never watched it when it aired.   I am allergic to network TV but everything they said was true.
    It's great.  Great acting.   Great writing.   Great "mythology".

    If you have not seen it you should definitely consider it the next time you have 121 hours to kill.  (Yikes)

    I know what I'm doing this winter.

    Parent

    I am/was not... (none / 0) (#128)
    by kdog on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 10:11:10 AM EST
    I'm somewhat selective in my choice of tv time investment...right now it's strictly The Leftovers.  

    I would probably dig it, but I like my music and reading and outdoors time too.  Hard to find the time.

    Parent

    Same creator/writer (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 10:31:37 AM EST
    Along with J. J. Abrams.  Which is amazing.   There is a third writer credited but that is just because of a legal thing.   That person I believe only wrote the first rejected pilot episode.

    Anyway.   It's very Leftovers.  Still, if you are going to watch one thing you got it right.

    Parent

    thanks for the link! Didn't know who the artist (none / 0) (#130)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 10:46:34 AM EST
    was. iTunes had an inferior knock-off when I searched.

    It is kind of my theme song for watching these shows too - I don't try that hard to figure it out.

    Parent

    It's a great theme song... (none / 0) (#136)
    by kdog on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:05:04 AM EST
    for life, at least as it pertains to life's mysteries.

    Some questions are best left alone, with no pursuit for answers that can never be obtained anyway.  A philosophy I can totally get down with.

    Parent

    Indeed (none / 0) (#138)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:06:31 AM EST
    Really hits all my sweet spots

    Parent
    That made me laugh right out loud (none / 0) (#161)
    by sj on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:33:52 PM EST
    And I really needed a laugh. Thank you.

    Parent
    Planning of Paris Attacks (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Green26 on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 11:06:14 PM EST
    This NY Times article is a very interesting read. As many already know, Europe is quite vulnerable.

    Article.


    Agreed. (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by KeysDan on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 01:23:59 PM EST
    Very interesting reporting.  Seems to me that there was some major intelligence fault lines, despite the strains that have been put on French security, as well as the problems to assure coordination of intelligence within (the fractions of French/Flemish) Belgium and the consequences for Europe.

    As the NYT article states, several of the terrorists came from second and third generation Moroccan and Algerian descent.  And, from intact, middle class families.

    In addition to those killed in the Paris attack, m 100 people are still in the hospital, some clinging to life, others severely injured and in for, at best, a long rehabilitation period.  

    Parent

    Young fogies (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by jbindc on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 10:31:38 AM EST
    We are raising a generation of delicate little snowflakes.

    You've probably heard about "trigger warnings," which alert readers or viewers that what lies ahead might be upsetting or offensive. Initially such warnings were intended to help protect sexual assault survivors from reliving their trauma.

    But on college campuses, they have lately been demanded for all sorts of other displeasing material.

    Among the traumatic topics to which students have objected to being exposed: spiders, "fatphobia," indigenous artifacts, "images of childbirth," being told their favorite artist was probably gay, suicide in a ballet, images of dead bodies, nude models in a drawing class, nude images in an art history class and bloody scenes in a horror film class.

    Also, the Bible.

    These are real subjects of student complaints, as reported by professors in a new survey released by the National Coalition Against Censorship.

    SNIP

    A recent Pew Research Center survey found that 40 percent of millennials believe the government "should be able to prevent people from saying . . . statements that are offensive to minority groups." A third of millennials also say the government should be able to prevent speech "offensive to your religion or beliefs."

    In both cases, young people were substantially more likely to express support for such speech limits than older respondents were. In fact, millennials were about four times as likely as their grandparents' generation to support speech restrictions.

    {Shakes head}

    My 2 (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:29:47 AM EST
    cents is that a lot of the crime laws have created a bunch of helicopter parents who in turn have created people where residing in a "safe" place has become normal.

    Back in the 70's when I was growing up if you did something stupid you got a lecture from the judge or the police. These days if someone sits in your car and you get pulled over and the police do a search and find your friend's cocaine stuffed in between the seats you're going to jail for 10 years. So in essence teenagers and young adults are no longer allowed to learn from their mistakes. You make a mistake and your life is ruined.

    Parent

    I think that's part of it (none / 0) (#51)
    by CST on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:38:43 AM EST
    But it's more complicated than that.

    To be honest, the U.S. is unique in that we allow more free speech than most of the west.  Personally, I think that's a very good thing, but there's certainly a disagreement about that internationally, and as the world get's smaller some of that may spread.

    I will say I found it very jarring to see a student in Germany snapped at for suggesting that Hitler did some things to help the underlying economic conditions which helped him gain power.  Whether it's 100% true or not, the fact that a discussion wasn't even allowed on the subject is not something I found helpful in the classroom setting.  How are you supposed to learn anything from History if you can't even have an open conversation about it?

    I also think that words can have more power these days.  Some lunatic in a small town might have been ostracized in their community in the past, these days, they can talk to the whole world.  I don't personally think that means we should restrict free speech, but the consequences are greater than they used to be.

    Parent

    Did you ever see "The Nasty Girl"? (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 02:15:23 AM EST
    CST: "I will say I found it very jarring to see a student in Germany snapped at for suggesting that Hitler did some things to help the underlying economic conditions which helped him gain power.  Whether it's 100% true or not, the fact that a discussion wasn't even allowed on the subject is not something I found helpful in the classroom setting.  How are you supposed to learn anything from History if you can't even have an open conversation about it?"

    It's a 1990 German film directed by Michael Verhoeven, and loosely based on the true story of Anja Rosmus, a schoolgirl from a stereotypically picture-perfect Bavarian town who won a nationwide essay contest and became everybody's darling.

    Pleased by the result of her earlier triumph and acclaim, which garnered her town a lot of positive attention as well, the town elders encourage Sonja (Anja's fictionalized cinematic counterpart) to enter the contest again the following year.

    Only this time, Sonja chooses as her essay topic "My Town During the Third Reich." And needless to say, when she attempts to research her subject, many of those same once-friendly elders become very unhappy with her efforts, even going so far as to forbid her access to key documents in the town's library and archives.

    This, of course, only makes her double down on her determination to uncover everyone's dirty little secrets from a dark period of contemporary history that most would otherwise prefer to pretend never happened. Loads of hilarity and hijinks ensue -- NOT!

    Seriously, though, it's a brilliant film and highly recommended.

    Parent

    I have! (none / 0) (#121)
    by CST on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:59:16 AM EST
    Great movie.

    Parent
    While I Agree With Everything You Posted... (none / 0) (#58)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:21:43 PM EST
    ...doesn't it have a older generation complaining about the newer generation heavy vibe to it.  I remember a lady at work once complaining that us new generation expects everything for free, to which I replied you are welcome for that free Starbucks coffee.  She was not amused.

    Yes, we have three Starbucks machines that grind and brew coffee one cup at a time.  No one demanded it, but if you want to get young workers you have to cater to what they want, not what the old geezers think they deserve.  I don't drink coffee, but I do appreciate the $.25 sodas.

    Not really related, but it's only story that I think makes the point, the old timers, me now, always think the young ones as spoiled brats.  For the record, and not kidding, millennials are all a bunch of spoiled brats.

    Not for nothing, but these are learned traits, and IMO their parents are to blame as much as anyone.  Just saying 'yes' seems to be new norm in parenting, which leads to non-sense like this, parents coddling their kids so much that they truly believe they are special.  Not special in that they are their kids, but special in that they world should cater to their every whim and desire, no matter how ridiculous.

    These parents are my generation, Generation X.  You see it all the time, "OMG they are making the religious woman do her job, the horror!", or "The government needs to force companies to stop making pretty soap that my kids put into heir mouths, because I can't tell them no and not buy it", and my personal favorite, "My unemployed grown a$$ son living in the basement, who has a college degree, is going through my retirement because he's holding out for a management position."

    Parents who can't say 'no' have created a whole generation of kids who won't take 'no' for an answer.

    Parent

    Not really (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by jbindc on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 02:46:28 PM EST
    But I did start with saying that we are raising a generation of delicate little snowflakes. The parents are definitely to blame because people like teachers have been sidelined because every parent knows what's the best way to educate their child (even when they usually don't), and that if teachers were smarter, they'd have "real" jobs.

    I'm a Gen X'er too, and it's not about "You d@mn kids get off my lawn.". It's more about, "Grow the f@ck up.". Life isn't all about avoiding unpleasant things and ideas and college isn't about living in an echo chamber.  Seriously, how are these people going to handle it when life REALLY hands them a $hit$how? (And as we all know - it will)

    I'm sorry, I guess I should have issued a trigger warning for keeping it real.

    Parent

    Was just saying to a co-worker this (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Anne on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 03:09:29 PM EST
    morning that parents are just so up their kids' butts these days, it makes me a little crazy.  So far, I haven't seen this with my own kids' kids, but they're still young, so...I can only hope they let them breathe a little, have some space and territory that just belongs to them.

    I started to see this when my own kids were little - parents constantly at the school or on the phone with the teachers, never letting the kid do his or her own projects, trying to protect them from having their tender feelings even a little bruised.  Many of these kids just never learned how to cope with things that weren't going their way - which doesn't really prepare them for being fully-independent.

    It's so hard to let them fail, but I think in the end it's harder not to.  And I don't mean to suggest I was a completely hands-off parent, but you just have to let kids learn how to be - and they can't do that when you're all over their lives every waking minute.  I was saying to my friend this morning that I think parents need to figure out whether the activities they have their kids in are for the kids' pleasure/enjoyment, or to feed their own competitive needs.  I don't always think it's about the kids as much as it is the parents.

    You can be involved without living the kids' lives for them - and honestly, if you have to live your kids' lives along with your own, you are going to burn out, and no one's going to be happy.

    The hardest thing is resisting the urge to think that you have to do what all the other parents are doing or your kid will suffer - it's like an even worse version of peer pressure - but you can't live the life everyone else is living out of fear, or you will eat yourself up.

    Sorry for the rant - it's something I feel so strongly about, and it just pains me when I see kids being treated like little puppets who can't make a move without mom or dad.

    Parent

    You know, jb (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Zorba on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 06:00:01 PM EST
    I am of the Baby Boomer generation, my parents were of the Greatest Generation, and my kids are late Generation X'ers.
    And the Greatest Generation complained about the Boomers, and the Boomers complained about the Gen X'ers, and so on.
    I do agree that way too many of today's kids seem to perceive themselves as special, aided and abetted by way too many Gen X parents who have tried to monitor their every waking breath and protect them from everything that might hurt their precious feelings, or their chances at getting into the "best" colleges or getting the "best" jobs.
    But I do think that, in the end, the Millenials will find their own way.  It may not be your way or my way, but they will have to learn to live in this world, especially as their parents start to age (as we Boomers have done) and start to face retirement, health problems, and not having as much money and resources to spend on their kids as they did when they were younger.
    Reality has a way of eventually slapping most people in the face.
    (And the overly-involved Gen X parents may well also find themselves slapped in the face as their protected and coddled Millenials find their own way, and suddenly don't turn to their parents for every little bit of advice and protection, and, in fact, start to resent it.)

    Parent
    Well I guess I don't have a generation (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by fishcamp on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 08:50:41 PM EST
    Category since I was born three years and five days before the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

    Parent
    Happy Birthday! (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 12:03:50 PM EST
    May it live in infamy!

    Parent
    Happy birthday, fishcamp! (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Anne on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:05:05 PM EST
    Best to you for a wonderful year ahead!

    Parent
    You, my friend, are a member (none / 0) (#97)
    by caseyOR on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 08:55:52 PM EST
    of the Silent Generation. This group was born from the mid 1920s to the early 1940s. This is generation is smaller than others due to the Great Depression.

    Parent
    Your generation (none / 0) (#98)
    by Zorba on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 08:56:26 PM EST
    is often called the Silent Generation.

    Parent
    Zorba and casey (none / 0) (#99)
    by fishcamp on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 09:04:05 PM EST
    There's a further clue in that WWll story...

    Parent
    Have a (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by Zorba on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:01:21 PM EST
    Happy Birthday, fishcamp!

    Parent
    Happy Birthday, fishcamp. (5.00 / 4) (#105)
    by caseyOR on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:17:46 PM EST
    May the fishing always be good, and the seas always calm.

    Parent
    Happy Birthday to you (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by MO Blue on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:44:38 PM EST
    Hope you have enjoyed the day and that the fish are plentiful throughout the year to come.

    Parent
    Happy birthday !! (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:15:01 AM EST
    Happy Birthday! (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:36:31 AM EST
    and Give'em hell at the Gym.

    Parent
    Happy B-day fishcamp! (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:23:13 PM EST
    Tight lines my friend.

    Parent
    Sarc and everybody (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by fishcamp on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:03:51 PM EST
    Thanks very much for the birthday greetings.  Funny day at the gym.  Everybody knew it was my birthday, due to the original registration 13 years ago,  they were very kind even though they knew Hillary is my choice.  I swear the torture never stops.  

    Parent
    not for nothing (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by CST on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 03:10:42 PM EST
    But when it comes to economic issues, what this country really needs, is a bunch of spoiled brats who are fed up and don't want to take $hit wages anymore.  I get what you're saying, but we've had too many years of telling everyone to "suck up" lower pay, obscene college prices, and a rising cost of living.

    None of this has to do with the free speech issue - which I agree with you on.  But the whole entitled young people thing is always, always used as an excuse to keep more people at the bottom of the economic ladder.  Also - what's a millennial these days?  I thought their parents were boomers.  How young are we talking?

    Parent

    Probably it's because they don't think (none / 0) (#81)
    by jondee on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 03:26:59 PM EST
    they wield any other kind of meaningful power that students fixate so much on curbing "offensive speech"..

    They get out of school in debt up to their eyeballs and knowing that they have to now shut up and get in line and start kissing the asses of a bunch of one percenters who hold the economy hostage.

    Parent

    Interesting theory... (none / 0) (#87)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 05:25:48 PM EST
    Kick the Dog, Insensitivity Edition?

    Whatever the case, power is scary. How 'bout a trigger warning next time guy. ;)

    Parent

    That is Not What I Was Talking About... (none / 0) (#85)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 05:06:52 PM EST
    ...but I can see where a millennial would not like the use of 'spoiled brats', but I think you should take that one up with your generation and not the messenger.

    I did get a good chuckle from the notion that millennials are up to solving problems beyond their iPhones not getting reception at some bizarre nowhere place.

    Yeah, just as soon as Tinder has as 'swipe up to solve the income and wealth disparity, swipe down to bring world peace, swipe left to have sex with another clueless millennial, swipe right to for mom's meatloaf'.  Tinder defines millennials IMO, they can't even be bothered to put the legwork in for meaningless sex, it's been reduced to a swipe.

    My friend calls them microwave babies, they want everything immediately, most of which they don't deserve, are unqualified to do, or something they cannot afford.  I call them titty babies, they whine and cry about everything and when they don't get it, they cozy up to mommy's bosom who will invariably give them what they want.

    There is a reason so many of them live at home, and it's not that they can't find jobs, it that they can't find a job they think they deserve.  They have unreal expectations, and if they actually did something about it beyond complaining on social media, I would get agree with you.  

    But they want everything their parents have, right now, iPhones, cable, a car, Starbucks, and a their own loft are the necessities, and unfortunately it would seem like their parents just can't tell them that is not how life works, so they jeopardize their financial futures to placate a whole generation.

    Present company excluded, of course, but as far as I know you are the only millennial at TL.

    Parent

    The millennials I know (5.00 / 3) (#143)
    by CST on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:46:08 AM EST
    Are over 30 and have already been smacked in the face, by almost a decade of recession in the workforce.

    Yea, we all lived at home at some point, present company not excluded.  Not because we couldn't find jobs, we had jobs.  Because you can either pay a grand a month to share an apartment on the cheap side of town with a bunch of adults, or you can pay utilities to share a house with a bunch of adults and use the rest of that money (if you make enough) towards your loans or a downpayment, or whatever.  I don't know anyone who jeopardized their parent's financial futures in the process, if anything, they helped with the bills while they were there.  

    And yea, I want what my parents have, a house, and a family, and a retirement, and maybe even a functioning vehicle, most of which they'd already had at my age (not including the retirement).  But they bought their first house for under $10,000.  And they both graduated from college with no loans.  And they managed all that while working as a waitress and a cabdriver/factory worker in their 20s.  That life no longer exists, but hey, at least I have a smartphone right?

    And I've never used tinder but I don't understand all the hate.  It's just another way of meeting people, and doesn't strike me as inherently worse than other ways.

    Parent

    Oh (none / 0) (#166)
    by sj on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 02:20:06 PM EST
    well said, CST.

    Parent
    It Was a Joke for the Most Part... (none / 0) (#183)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 05:05:15 PM EST
    ...and I though the references made it pretty clear I was kidding, but looking back... it reads harshly, my fault.

    For the record, the meatloaf reference is actually a Gen X reference, "Mom the Meatloaf... Now !"

    I thought this has been rehashed here, but millennials are definitely jeopardizing their parents futures.  

    A July 2014 survey by American Consumer Credit Counseling, a Boston nonprofit, found that a higher proportion of U.S. households (1 in 3) provide financial assistance to adult children than support for elderly parents (1 in 5). "This is putting a huge wrench into retirement savings," says Pamela Villarreal, a senior fellow with the National Center for Policy Analysis in Dallas. "The more boomers put out for adult kids, the less they can put aside for themselves, which is scary as they live longer and need savings to last them into their 80s and 90s."

    More than a third of adult millennials receive regular financial support from their parents, and 1 in 5 still live at home and don't pay rent or expenses, according to a November 2014 survey by Bank of America. It isn't just the unemployed or the low-paid who are needy. The poll, which had 1,000 respondents between the ages of 18 and 34, found that among those earning more than $75,000 a year, 25 percent had their parents pay for groceries at some point and 21 percent got money for clothing.

    LINK

    Parent
    It may have that vibe, but it's not the same (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Towanda on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 08:39:02 PM EST
    at all in college classrooms now, believe me.

    It's a widespread phenomenon discussed by faculty across the country for some time now -- and a prevailing theory is that this is the result of now having the first generation of students on college campuses who were entirely educated, in K12, under NCLB aka No Child Left Behind.  

    So, most were entirely educated in schools that faced massive repercussions, from firing of teachers to closing down schools, under NCLB. Administrators had to have teachers extend all sorts of extra credit to replace regular work -- and inflate grades for poor work. And heaven help teachers who told the truths and hurt their feelings . . . for which teachers also got fired.  (Happened to one just this week in my city, an expert teacher, who told truths.)

    The result is what we see now at the college level, students who got undeserved grades and expect that to continue -- and expect professors to cave as the K12 teachers had to do.

    Every semester, I have to say, "we don't have to keep you in school here, as your high schools did."  Every semester, it only sinks in for some . . . until they get the grades that they earned, some for the first time in their lives, I swear.

    And then, their feelings are hurt.  And the pressure is on profs from some administrators, too.  This is why we need tenure -- and need fulltime faculty -- but budget cuts have cut back on faculty so much that many college instructors now are adjuncts, easily fired under pressure from so many snowflakes now that it's a blizzard. levels.

    Parent

    When the Iraq War was ON (none / 0) (#124)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 09:12:01 AM EST
    You really couldn't fail anyone in flight school either. Everyone salvageable had to be salvaged. Some old foggies stood around wondering how many lives would be lost because there were no standards students had to meet head on.

    We are in drawdown now. Now these same people are taking advanced courses to expand their education. They must to make promotions. The amount of plagiarism is astonishing, did anyone do any of their own work 10 yrs ago? I know that nobody checked but sheesh. And those being caught argue all the way out the door with those escorting them out. That's another thing that goes with drawdown, plagiarists get sent home, not one more slim dime spent on you. Goodbye

    Parent

    A great man none of you ever heard of (5.00 / 6) (#73)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 01:43:13 PM EST
    died on Sunday. He was my cousin's (in the DC area) significant other for over 40 years. He was 91 years old. He was a black man born and raised in Jim Crow North Carolina. Became a federal probation and parole officer. He served in Europe during World War II, yet it took over 40 years and Steny Hoyer for him to get his well deserved medals. He played tennis every day up until two years ago when he was diagnosed with cancer. He stood on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on August 28, 1963 (not on the mall, ON THE STEPS). The only person I ever met that was there that day. I was in awe of this man and his history in a country that treated him like a second class citizen for big part of his life. A country he served. I just found out this afternoon that he passed. I cried today. He will be missed.

    So sorry (none / 0) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 02:04:31 PM EST
    for your loss.

    Parent
    I'm so sorry for your loss, Chuck... (none / 0) (#76)
    by Anne on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 02:21:04 PM EST
    amazing to think not just about what he'd lived through, but the incredible amount of change he'd been witness to.  My mom, who's 85, talks about this from time to time, and we both marvel at the things kids these days just take for granted: in a world that's connected on so many levels by technology, it's hard to imagine a world where there was no instant anything.  Imagine going to the local movie theater and watching the newsreels, or it taking weeks to get a letter from someone in the military.  My mom remembers the rationing of things like butter and sugar and gasoline during the war, blackout curtains and air raid drills.

    But the social changes in that time span are mind-boggling.  Even I, at 62, can remember that I didn't see - or at least had no memory of seeing - a black person until I started first grade, in 1959.  I suppose it says something that the school I attended wasn't segregated, but still - it's weird to think life was that different then.

    We still have such a long way to go - this election season has really brought that home to me.  It both saddens and disgusts me that maybe we haven't evolved as much as we like to think.

    Your cousin's significant other sounds like one of the truly good people, and that's a loss for all of us, I think.

    Parent

    I am so sorry for your loss (none / 0) (#167)
    by sj on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 02:23:20 PM EST
    But he has you to remember and honor him.

    Peace, to you and your family.

    Parent

    Recalling Rahm? (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 09:02:27 AM EST
    Apparently this is being seriously discussed as a result of recent events in Chicago.

    And the net is closing in on Cuomo (none / 0) (#184)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 05:10:37 PM EST
    United States Attorney Preet Bharara feels emboldened, sources say, following the conviction of former Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver -- on all of seven corruption charges. Despite lacking a "smoking gun" to constitute an explicit quid pro quo, the jury handed Bharara a sweeping win. Such is the public's appetite for corrupt politicians, observers say.

    Three sources are confirming that Bharara intends to indict Governor Andrew Cuomo on January 2nd -- along with a half dozen associates and former staffers -- on public corruption, racketeering, conspiracy, and honest services fraud.

    The Chronicle is unable to confirm widespread rumors that the former staffers are Howard Glaser, Joe Percoco and Larry Schwartz.

    Glaser resigned in June of last year as Director of State Operations and was thought to be Cuomo's top aide. Percoco left a $175,000 salary with the Governor on October 25th of this year, and was known as Cuomo's "political enforcer."
    The Chronicle is unable to confirm widespread rumors that the former staffers are Howard Glaser, Joe Percoco and Larry Schwartz.

    Glaser resigned in June of last year as Director of State Operations and was thought to be Cuomo's top aide. Percoco left a $175,000 salary with the Governor on October 25th of this year, and was known as Cuomo's "political enforcer."

    Parent

    while you're brushing up on climate science (none / 0) (#187)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 05:20:00 PM EST
    I'd do a little more research before getting overly gleeful about "the net closing in on Cuomo"..

    The only source I've seen for that story has a shaky track record, to say the least.

    Parent

    Another mass shooting taking place as of right now (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by CoralGables on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 02:28:48 PM EST
    in San Bernardino, CA.

    The Freepers are already on it (none / 0) (#171)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 02:56:21 PM EST
    ... It's a "false flag" operation by that sneaky Obama to make crazed gunmen look bad.

    Parent
    False flag.. (none / 0) (#173)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 03:38:07 PM EST
    we don't need fanatical believers in a future caliphate to appear to the rest of the world to be a crucible of lunacy..

    Just look at these people whose narrow, obsessive-paranoid preoccupation with the 2nd Amendment almost mirrors ISIS's way of interpreting the Koran..

    Parent

    "He can't win"? (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by lentinel on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 04:19:52 PM EST
    Sanders Beats All Top Republican Candidates In Latest Poll

    Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), a contender for the Democratic presidential nomination, is gaining steam against top Republican rivals, according to a national Quinnipiac University poll released Wednesday.

    In a hypothetical matchup against the current GOP front-runner, business mogul Donald Trump, Sanders takes 49 percent of the vote to Trump's 41 percent. Against Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Sanders leads 44 percent to 43 percent. He also beats Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) by 10 percentage points and retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson by 6 points.

    Fifty-nine percent of voters also say Sanders is honest and trustworthy -- placing him well above former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, his chief rival for the Democratic nomination, and above all top Republican candidates tested in the poll.  

    Clinton, for her part, has also gained some ground in the race, spelling good news for Democrats overall. She is now performing better against top Republican rivals compared to one month ago, when she was just slightly ahead of Trump and losing against all other Republicans in a Quinnipiac poll. In this latest poll, Sanders performs equally well as Clinton against Republicans or better.

    What it looks like is that what he may not be able to win are the primaries. Two factors: Big money flowing to HRC - and people saying that they prefer Sanders on the issues, but "he can't win".

    The only people that can beat Sanders... (5.00 / 3) (#180)
    by kdog on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 04:42:13 PM EST
    are those that agree with his policy positions, but are too chickensh#t to vote for him.

    We've met the enemy and it is us.

    Parent

    Today's episode of "Petty and stupid": (none / 0) (#1)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 03:16:13 PM EST
    House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy says the House will not agree to funding for any commitments might make on behalf of the United States, should a climate accord be reached in Paris.

    The solution (none / 0) (#2)
    by NYShooter on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 04:09:24 PM EST
    to having "petty and stupid" leaders in charge of our country is rather simple:

    Vote for "smart and intelligent" people instead.

    The fact that "petty and stupid" has been a winner for way too long says something about those purporting to be "smart and intelligent,"  doesn't it?

    Parent

    Not Really... (none / 0) (#4)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 04:19:13 PM EST
    ...when you consider the sums of money spent to keep people stupid.  Not much smart anything can do when the rich can by an entire network and broadcast stupid 24/7.

    I find it amazing that once or two a week I see here a certain someone who spends vast amounts of time and energy to prove lies are not really lies.

    Numero Uno, GW is a myth.  How many dollars and resources have been spent to prove that the lie is not a lie.  Mind boggling, really.

    Parent

    Don't blame the voters. (none / 0) (#6)
    by lentinel on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 04:59:24 PM EST
    The fact that "petty and stupid" has been a winner for way too long says something about those purporting to be "smart and intelligent,"  doesn't it?

    The fact that petty and stupid people have been elected is not something for which you should blame the victim.

    In this case, the victim is the voter. The victims are the people.

    We have been given no one to vote for.
    And if we begin to think that maybe so and so is a candidate worth considering, we are hit with the conventional wisdom that so and so can't win... so we would be wasting our vote.

    So, guess who wins?

    One of the people on the ballot will be elected. And more often than not, that person will behave in a manner that seems petty and stupid.

    That is, petty and stupid to us.
    But not to the corporate interests whose money put them in power.

    To them, those petty and stupid people are doing one hell of a job.

    Parent

    Sorry, but I have to disagree with ... (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 08:57:05 PM EST
    ... that sort of electoral passivity on your part. Speaking as a now-former party official, why are WE obligated to give YOU someone to vote for? Do you envision your own personal role and responsibility in this process to be exclusively that of public critic and / or moral scold?

    Let's please understand one thing here. As a party official, I'm not there to serve you, the citizen voter. (And the same goes for my GOP counterparts.) Rather, because I'm elected by my fellow Democrats in my own community, my primary obligation is to represent their interests at the party's executive level, which may or may not coincide with your own.

    As far as prospective candidates for public office are concerned, the choice and decision to run rests with the individual who desires to do so, and not with me or any other party official. If we need a candidate in a particular district, we'll put the word out in that district and then see who steps up to the plate, but that's all we can do. The bygone days of the smoke-filled backroom, during which party bosses got to decide who ran and who didn't, are exactly that -- bygone. And good riddance.

    That said, I'm there to work with you in the interest of making common cause, provided that you show up and demonstrate a willingness to roll up your sleeves and share the workload. Democracy is meant to be a participatory sport, and your active presence is required for it to take root and flourish. If you seek change, then you must embody that change, and a good place to start is taking an active role in your own community's public affairs.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    That is a HUGE crock (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by sj on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:32:00 PM EST
    As far as prospective candidates for public office are concerned, the choice and decision to run rests with the individual who desires to do so, and not with me or any other party official.
    Having been a lower level party official, I call BS. State level Party officials have a huge -- disproportionate actually -- say in who will get funding and support.

    I am actually still livid when I recall one highly qualified candidate for state office who was sabotaged (yes, that is the right word) because he didn't have the "two million dollar price of admission" while they looked for a candidate who did.

    lentinel is making way more sense then you are, without being half as patronizing and condescending.

    Parent

    Most local political campaigns ... (1.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 03:45:49 PM EST
    ... around the country are at the municipal, county and state district level, and tend to not require a $1 million-plus price tag for entry.

    If your state party does -- California, perchance? -- well, that's too bad. That sort of shakedown behavior is in clear violation of the rules in most all state Democratic parties. As party officers and officials, we are generally prohibited from using our positions and party resources to influence a particular state primary race to the benefit or exclusion of a specific Democratic candidate. (I also held the post of rules committee chair in our own state party for six years, so I'm quite knowledgeable about these matters, not only in Hawaii but elsewhere, too.)

    So, when did this incident happen? And as a party official (even a low-level one), what exactly did you do in response to that "one highly qualified candidate for state office who was sabotaged" for not having the "two million dollar price of admission" -- that is, besides get livid?

    As a party member, you not only have the right but an obligation to file an official complaint about another member or official, if you perceive them to be in violation of the party's rules or state campaign laws. Did you do so with your district or regional chair, or with your district representative to the state party's central committee? Did you call your state party's executive director or someone at national HQ to let them know what was going on?

    If we're talking about CA in the '00s, then your state chair was former State Sen. Art Torres and your executive director was Kathy Bowler. In my opinion, while I like Kathy, she was almost completely ineffectual in that post. And from my perspective, Torres was a genial (and then-closeted) buffoon.

    Both Torres and Bowler generally did the bidding of Richie Ross, a rather notorious and mal-tempered operative out of Sacramento who, if he doesn't actually violate ethical boundaries, certainly likes to skirt their frontiers.

    So, if this is the case, then I can see how your candidate might have gotten screwed, if he refused to sign up his campaign with Richie Ross's consulting group after being referred there by Torres or one of his staff. Ross has been a longtime pox on the CA Democratic Party, and has enriched himself at the expense of candidates and donors alike with these types of quid pro quo arrangements. He tried to branch out his operations to Hawaii five years ago, but was politely and firmly rebuffed by us.

    That said, my question still stands. Did you even try to do anything to help this particular candidate, or did you just seethe in disgust and throw up your hands in despair at the unfairness of it all?

    As someone who served until recently as a senior state party official, I was actually quite capable and ethical in performance of my duties. But one thing I can't do is read other people's minds, and so I really can't help someone like you or your candidate, if such a situation is not brought to my immediate personal attention.

    And further, if my counterpart in your state party was dismissive of your concern or unresponsive to your complaint, then you needed to go over that person's head and work your way up the chain of command, until you found someone who was willing to take you seriously. And finally, there's the California Fair Political Practices Commission, a nonpartisan board which actually has teeth and is quite willing to bare them and bite.

    In short, you have to work the system and not be afraid to butt heads if need be. That's what I do and if people don't like it, too bad. While I'm proud of my own record as a proven team player, I'm not necessarily here to go along and get along merely for its own sake. At all times, I reserve the right to call my own shots and do what I think is right.

    Effective communication between party members is the essential element in preventing such abuses from ever occurring in the first place. The only way to combat political parasites like Richie Ross is to network with like-minded members so you can be watchdogs, and then be prepared to challenge and confront such bad actors directly.

    And as I've told lentinel time and again, confining your actions to incessant bi+ching on a blog doesn't cut the mustard. You need to elevate your own game, if you really want to make a difference. Otherwise, once people in politics see that you're not willing to do anything further about whatever it is that you're complaining about, they will feel free to ignore you.

    And then, what good are both you and your gripes to anyone, really? In my experience over the years I've been involved in politics, I've had to learn -- sometimes to my own chagrin and detriment -- who it is that I can count on, and who's all bark with no bite. I have no time to waste on the latter, if they're not willing to stand up for themselves.

    Granted, it's never easy to rise and speak out in public and take action when you see obvious wrongdoing occur. But as they say, bad actors and unethical behavior are given carte blanche to flourish whenever otherwise good people say and do nothing about them.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Once again (none / 0) (#179)
    by sj on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 04:40:07 PM EST
    A lot of words. A lot of words for a lot of blaming the wrong people. And I really, really resent your implication that naturally I -- and others -- sat back and did nothing but complain and whine. That is not the first time you have made such an insinuation. Insinuation he!!. That's practically an accusation.

    And what good are those the official channels you describe, really? The momentum of the candidate are a thing of the past and a pyrrhic victory is won.

    Frankly, it was much more satisfying to oust leadership at the next state caucus, although the action was also way, way, way too late to do the candidate any good.

    And speaking of seething: now I am seething as you talk out of your a$$ again, as if state politics is all flag, motherhood and apple pie. For a lesson in how effective it is to take leadership to task, please note that there are still only six Democratic Presidential debates: a result of Debbie Wasserman Schulz' unilateral decision, no matter how much she denies that.

    And yes, you have granted "lentinel time and again" all kinds of pompous, arrogant, BS scoldings.

    You, in your turn, have been told "time and again" how obnoxious these patronizing, sanctimonious, self-righteous screeds are. Has it stopped you from typing them?

    Parent

    People have told you quite often that (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by MO Blue on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 06:16:53 PM EST
    they are heavily involved with the party at the state and local level but these disclosures seem to consistently go over your head. Yet, you continue to act as if no one other than you is involved. Case in point a comment recently lentinel made to after one of your lectures on her lack of involvement in the process.

    lentinel

    I am involved.
    As involved as you.
    Perhaps more than you.
    I have been involved with local democratic party politics in New York City. I was even on the ballot some years ago.

    You might want to consider that there are as many experiences within the party as there are wards and not all experiences mirror your own no matter how much others are involved.

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 05:54:46 PM EST
    but there are a lot of voters that like stupid in a president. Maybe not enough alone to win an election but look no further than the Bush apologists that hang out here. There are a lot of voters that refuse to inform themselves.

    There are smart voters, dumb voters and all kinds of voters. Voters who base their votes on religion etc.

    Parent

    Whether (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by lentinel on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 07:13:36 PM EST
    they like it or not, stupid is what they are going to get.

    Or they get an intelligent president who acts stupid, like Clinton.

    Parent

    Unfortunately, he represents Bakersfield, CA, (none / 0) (#26)
    by shoephone on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 09:23:24 PM EST
    considered to be the most conservative city in California. So, it's unlikely anyone intelligent and sane will be elected to congress from there any time soon.

    Parent
    Anyone Else Find It Odd... (none / 0) (#3)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 04:14:42 PM EST
    ...that they tell people not to go to public outings, to be vigilant, only to watch them shoot off fireworks at every NFL game, even the indoor stadiums.

    I mean WTF, put people on edge, step up security, go through their S like they have bombs, then make loud bomb like sounds in celebration at those public events.

    I also wonder if scaring people half to death had anything to do with Black Friday basically being demoted to just another Friday before xmas.

    I'd call (none / 0) (#5)
    by CST on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 04:25:09 PM EST
    The Black Friday situation a silver lining.  Hopefully it ends the nonsense of people working on thanksgiving.

    Parent
    I so completely agree (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 05:59:11 PM EST
    What a croc.  I love the sports store that closed and gave their employees the holiday off.

    It's stupid.  It's embarrassing.  It's pointless.  Particularly now that you can buy anything online.

    I hope those are correct who speculated Black Fridays days are numbered.

    Parent

    re the chicago police (none / 0) (#9)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 06:14:32 PM EST
    do we tend to think something weird is going on?

    Supposedly there are 5 police cams and all of missing some or all of their audio . . .

    a burger place manager claims that police deleted his video of the shooting, but others claim no deletion took place.

    maybe we need someone with the x-ray vision of superman . . .

    either that or a federal investigation  . . .

    1st freddie gray trial beginning (none / 0) (#12)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 07:14:49 PM EST
    The first of the freddie gray trials is beginning . . .

    William Porter is on trial for involuntary manslaughter and some other things . . .

    Pros put Porter first, supposedly, cause they want to use him as a witness in the other trials.

    the van driver is named Goodson.

    what did porter do, if anything, that caused Gray's death?

    which officers, if any, are the ones who should have put him in seatbelt?

    My guess/prediction is . . .

    If the jury has some whites  . . . then  . . .
    officers who should have put Gray in a seatbelt are convicted of some charges and all others, if any, are acquitted.  

    The only officers who are in danger are the ones who can be shown to have had an obligation to have put Gray in seatbelt . . . and their defense, if any, is that they didn't know or whatever it is they will claim, not very convincingly.

    Although, the defense will also try to claim we don't really know how Gray died . . . but I think, from reports, we can reasonably conclude that if Gray had been in a seatbelt, he would not have died that day.  Defense speculations about the death being intentional or an accident or Gray's own self-desctrutive actions--none of it will matter to the officers who did not put the seatbelts on and who had a directive to do so.

    Is clinton being thoughtless? (none / 0) (#13)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 07:29:47 PM EST
    "Well, at this point, I cannot conceive of any circumstances where I would agree to do that because I think the best way to defeat ISIS is as I've said ... from the air, which we lead, on the the ground, which we enable, empower, train, equip, and in cyberspace where, don't forget, they are a formidable adversary online," Clinton said.

    The main opposition to ISIS is currently the kurds.  The Kurds have been and continue to be attacked by Turkey and they are under-equipped and ill-equipped as is reported by mainstream news media such as cnn and cbs.

    For good or for fill the Kurds have reportedly been torturing ISIS surrendered fighters and have been destroying houses and villages of persons and groups suspected of supporting ISIs.

    Clinton explained that sending U.S. combat troops back to the region would "give ISIS a new recruitment tool."

    we or france would face 30,000 who can barely move and man their own checkpoints  . . .  I personally think that 2000 US or French troops would push ISIS over the edge, because it isn't just us . . .

    2000 troops and give the Kurds some tanks and stop Turkey from attacking them . . . bomb the oil of ISIS and it should be over  . . .

    Oh, the brilliant French attacks a few weeks ago left 200,000 people without water, reportedly . . .  Not sure if that was intentional, but it is foolish.

    The news is that the Iraqi Security Forces have successfully captured a bridge from ISIS. . .

    Iraqi forces cut last IS supply line to Ramadi by retaking bridge!

    Iraqi forces backed by Iranian-trained militias and U.S. air strikes have made significant progress in isolating Ramadi, the capital of Anbar province that the Islamic State overran in May, according to Iraqi officials, local residents and Western military advisers.

    But there's no certainty that that means the city will soon be retaken. . . Iraqi Security reportedly will be waiting till Bertha the Seattle tunnelling machine is working properly and tunnelling, since that would be regarded a good omen . . .

    Oh . . .

    Bertha's restart delayed again; will there be drilling by Christmas?

    Tunnel-boring machine Bertha's restart date will be delayed until Dec. 23, a month beyond the latest projection.

    K . . .


    I begin to wonder (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 09:19:17 PM EST
    If perhaps employees and care providers at Planned Parenthood and similar places should take the bad guy with a gun vs the good guy with a gun to heart and arm themselves.

    I have to tell you if I worked at one I would definitely be giving it serious consideration.

    Something the murderous right wing maniacs can understand.

    That would be a terrible idea (none / 0) (#27)
    by shoephone on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 09:25:45 PM EST
    I can't imagine the medical staff or the clients feeling safe with that scenario. Way too much can go wrong.

    I would never want to get medical care at a place where people were armed.

    Parent

    Technically (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 30, 2015 at 09:41:44 PM EST
    You would not have to know.   Colorado is concealed carry.

    Parent
    A medical clinic is no place for guns (none / 0) (#33)
    by shoephone on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:14:07 AM EST
    I find the very idea to be bizarre, and not just a little repugnant.

    Parent
    Opinions are like other things (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 09:26:42 AM EST
    Everybody has one.

    At least eight murders occurred in the United States since 1990, as well as 41 bombings and 173 arsons at clinics since 1977. At least one murder occurred in Australia, as well several attempted murders in Canada. There were 1,793 abortion providers in the United States in 2008,[8] as well as 197 abortion providers in Canada in 2001.[9] The National Abortion Federation reported between 1,356 and 13,415 incidents of picketing at United States providers each year from 1995 to 2014.[10]

    You find the idea of protecting yourself and perhaps clients from this onslaught bizarre?  I find it bizarre that you find it bizarre.
    Repugnant?   Perhaps.  Personally I find the prospect of being brutally murdered more repugnant.

    It would be swell if we all lived in the world we wished we lived in instead of the work we actually live in.

    It's clear, and more clear every day, that law enforcement and government either can not or will not protect clinic workers.   I am no gun advocate.   I have had anti gun comments deleted here more than once.  
    But I am no martyr.   And I think expecting those who put their lives on the line to provide health care to be martyrs is bizarre and repugnant.

    Imo it's time to fight back and stop acting like lambs to the slaughter.  

    Parent

    One other thing (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 09:34:31 AM EST
    When the "Good guy with. Gun" starts being the person who pops a cap in the head of abortion extremists it might just possibly change the whole dynamic of the concept.

    It might stop looking like such a great idea when the gun is in your face instead of in your hand.

    They have passed the laws to make it possible.   Use them.

    Parent

    No thanks (none / 0) (#55)
    by shoephone on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:00:19 PM EST
    As a woman who was poor enough at one point in my life to get almost ALL my medical services from PP, I can state from real experience that it is not a place where I would have felt safe if people inside the facility were armed, just waiting to "protect" me from crazies. No thank you. The PP clinic I went to was on the third floor of a business building with a security buzz-in only entrance. No armed guards needed. However, if it was street level, as some are, the kind of security guards that Scott is talking about make a lot more sense. They are outside the facility, and escort people in, if necessary. And they are hired security guards, hired for that very purpose. They are professionals.

    I can't think of one doctor I know personally (and I have a few in my family) who would feel comfortable carrying a weapon while they are treating patients!

    And no, I sure a hell do not want some pent-up guy with a superhero complex sitting next to me in a women's medical clinic, armed and ready to "protect" me.

    Yep. Everybody has their right to an opinion. As a woman who has actually used PP for medical services, I think my opinion holds a fair amount of weight.

    Parent

    Have you ever been in one (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:19:24 PM EST
    Attacked by a gunman?   Have you seen friends and caregivers blown apart in front of you?  Get back to me when you go have.

    Parent
    IMO (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by CST on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:22:19 PM EST
    A security guard/police presence is probably a better idea, if they can afford it.  Someone trained.  Or hell, metal detectors/security in general.  If they can do it for inner city schools they can do it for planned parenthood.

    Parent
    When more details come out of what happened (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Peter G on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 08:55:33 PM EST
    I don't think you are going to be faulting PP for lack of security. In fact, their meticulous security measures and thoughtful planning, which were followed to a T, are what prevented a much greater tragedy. A heavily armed, perhaps deranged gunman got a little ways into the building but was trapped in a front room, while the staff and patients escaped.

    Parent
    That's probably true about PP (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 09:47:58 PM EST
    A big national organization but I have heard from women who have use the services available to locals that the security leaves a lot to be desired.

    I suspect it's very spotty.

    Parent

    Not meaning PP facilities (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 09:48:27 PM EST
    Of course (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:25:34 PM EST
    I never really meant all employees should be armed.   Though if I was an employee I would be.  

    Parent
    Appreciate your (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by KeysDan on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:49:15 PM EST
    feelings, but I, too, believe that the patients and staff should have professional security protection rather than arming employees.  In an evangelical environment like Colorado Springs, it is not out of the question that a PP staff member would be charged for unlawful use of a firearm. Although, I see your point, that perhaps, staff member may be alive and have saved lives.  But, boy..that's a tough call. (could get a second guesser like Ben Carson, saying the staff should have rushed the killer, or the male client telling the shooter that he really wants that women behind the counter.)

     And, while not having the deterrent or instant protection, in this case, the terrorist killed the University policeman and injured four other policeman--all, of course, armed.  


    Parent

    Dang... (none / 0) (#62)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:33:19 PM EST
    ...that was a bit of an over response.

    Are you suggesting every place that has had a gunman, people need to be locked and loaded, or just PP ?  I am thinking the work place, post offices, malls, schools, recruitment centers, college campuses, churches... the more I think about it that is pretty much every place one goes to outside the home.

    Parent

    Are you suggesting (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:38:47 PM EST
    work place, post offices, malls, schools, recruitment centers, college campuses, churches...

    Have been as much the target of hate and misinformation that Planned Parenthood and abortion clinics have been?

    Parent

    What Does it Matter... (none / 0) (#70)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 01:14:08 PM EST
    ...how much they are hated & inaccurately portrayed, from a safety stand point ?

    I would imagine the odds of getting killed at a PP facility are less than being killed by a terrorist, which is right behind lightening, even if you work there.

    Parent

    To be fair.. (none / 0) (#163)
    by sj on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:58:24 PM EST
    I would imagine the odds of getting killed at a PP facility are less than being killed by a terrorist, which is right behind lightening, even if you work there.
    This killer was actually a domestic terrorist, so the odds would be exactly the same, yes/no?

    Parent
    In All Fairness... (none / 0) (#189)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 05:40:30 PM EST
    ...can we use that term and apply it to actual terrorists, not lone killers who act because they are lunatics acting on some perceived political/religious wrongdoing.

    That is like saying the guy who gets drunk and beats up someone because they are a liberal is a terrorist.  Yeah, buy definition they are using violence to make some political point, but come on, I mean there is another post linking GW and of terrorism, it's getting a little out of hand.

    But if need be, how about you have better odds of winning the lottery than getting killed at PP.

    Parent

    Hyperbole much? (none / 0) (#71)
    by shoephone on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 01:18:36 PM EST
    Have you seen people blown apart in front of you? Didn't think so.

    In case you are thinking of arming yourself and going to protect people at a clinic, you are the last person on earth that should be allowed to own a firearm. You appear to be way too unstable.

    Parent

    And you as usual (none / 0) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 04:01:06 PM EST
    Appear to have far to high an opinion of your own opinion.

    In my opinion.

    Parent

    In Houston... (none / 0) (#41)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 10:28:50 AM EST
    ...I used to live a couple blocks from PP.

    They have two security personnel and a fenced area for protesters.  They appear to be armed.  But they greet people at the street and escort them the 30 foot walk pass the protestors.

    What is really bothersome about the whole thing, down the road about 3 miles is the medical center.  A long time ago I took a close friend their for the same procedure done at PP.  Her parents were loaded and to say that I was surprised to see what kind of treatment people get at the medical center who have means, would be an understatement.  I have never been and probably will never be in a medical area that personal.  No sign in, no waiting for the woman, first class service, literally.

    Long, long, story, but I really was not their as the expectant dad, just a good friend.  But that place was nicer than any medical facility I have ever been to.  The contrast between women without money and women with money was literally night and day. For the record, even though I was a bystander in the whole deal, that was a really bad day, top 10, not because of what I was doing, but my friend was in a bad place mentally.  I can't imagine her having to deal the the out of town christians right down the road with their kids and signs and heckling.  She would have lost it even more than she already had.

    After that, I used to go the few blocks out of my way after work, honk my horn at the protesters, and just when they got all excited thinking on was on their team, I flip them off.  Jockasses, all they were doing is harassing poor women, when right down the road, the people with cash get treated with dignity, but having the same procedure they find so offensive.  Opportunists, each and every one of the adults.  

    Who are these people who have nothing better to do all day that harass vulnerable women.  They were not residents of downtown Houston, and if I had to guess, they were did not live anywhere near Houston.  Just a bunch of unemployed bible thumping carpetbaggers posing their views on everyone else and using their kids as props.

    The waiting room at the Medical center was crowded.  Now I don't know if that is something they do one day a week or a month, but if they are doing it every day, they are performing a lot of them, way more than PP, which for the most part seemed fairly slow.

    IMO, some of those people posed risks, surely enough risk in Texas to claim self defense.  It would be very interesting to see how an abortion protester getting shot and the shooter using the stand your ground defense, or whatever Texas calls it.  I am guessing guilt would not be determined by the facts at hand other than if the shooter was getting an abortion, and if they succeeded.

    I am so tired of these people, for people who claim to love/worship god, they sure don't give it any credit in being able to handle it's business.  The idea that god needs their help is as preposterous as believing that they know what it wants to begin with, which last time I read, was a huge sin.  Hypocrites with hate using god to defend the indefensible.

    Parent

    To be clear (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:27:48 AM EST
    I'm not at all talking about shooting a protester.

    I'm talking about dealing with a lunatic who walks in guns blazing.   Exactly like Mr Dear.

    Parent

    I Know... (none / 0) (#63)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:35:01 PM EST
    ...I got off target a bit, my point was that they have security at PP in Houston who appear to have firearms, but not 100%.

    Parent
    Got to see a couple movies over the break (none / 0) (#35)
    by McBain on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:48:00 AM EST
    Creed is a solid film.  The boxing scenes aren't well done but the acting is good... I'd like to see Stallone get an academy award nomination for his subtle supporting performance.

    Mockingjay part 2 is terrible, almost as bad as part one.  Without actual hunger games competitions, these films don't have much to offer.  I think the death of Philip Seymour Hoffman messed things up a bit.  Jennifer Lawrence not looking her best didn't help either.

    Anyone see the new Bond film or anything interesting?      

    spectre (none / 0) (#36)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 08:35:42 AM EST
    I saw spectre .  . .

    The premise is a bit bad .  . . Spectre claims to have been responsible for all 3 of the last villians to have troubled Bond . . . but the action is fun and interesting, as usual .  . .

    Parent

    I saw "The Secret In Their Eyes", with (none / 0) (#56)
    by caseyOR on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:05:35 PM EST
    Julia Roberts, Nicole Kidman and Chiwetel Ejiofor. It is a sort of murder mystery with a bit of a thwarted love story. Very dark. Very very good.

    Everything takes place in LA in 2002. Roberts plays an investigator for the Los Angeles District Attorney whose teenage daughter is the murder victim. Ejiofor is an FBI agent assigned to a terrorism task force based in the district attorney's office. Kidman is an assistant DA, later the District Attorney. So, we get a murder overlaid with our law enforcement response to 9-11.

    I was blown away by the performances. Roberts is so much better in drama than her early rom-com career would lead one to believe. Ejiofor is always good, always. Alfred Molina appears in a small but very important part. It is all good.

    The story-telling is superb. The ending took me, and everyone else in the theater, completely by surprise, which is always a good thing with this kind of movie.

    As I said, it is a dark story. And it was worth every penny I paid to see it.

    Parent

    I just saw Kingsman (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:24:00 PM EST
    On HBO.   I liked it a lot more than I expected based on what I had read.

    It was that rare treat these days, an R rated actin movie.   Box office has made such things almost extinct.

    IMO it's worth seeing just for Sam Jacksons hilarious performance as the lisping super villain.

    Parent

    Agreed, Kingsman (none / 0) (#69)
    by KeysDan on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 01:12:43 PM EST
    was a good action film, and better than expected.  Also, seen over the past weekend was "Seraphin Falls."   A really good bounty hunt for revenge (Liam Neeson) after the civil war--a mix of violence, war and survival (Pierce Brosnan out-does MacGyver in his improvisational skills).

    Parent
    We saw "Spotlight" tonight. (none / 0) (#109)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 02:37:04 AM EST
    Personally, I'm sorry I saw it. It's a brilliant film that's wonderfully acted by its ensemble cast, but in obvious retrospect, the subject matter is very dark and hit way too close to home for me. And given the family events of the last few weeks, I should've insisted that we see something a little more upbeat, like "Brooklyn."

    That said, I would definitely recommend "Spotlight," and its current Oscar buzz is well-deserved.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    "Spotlight: is an exemplary film, IMO (none / 0) (#200)
    by shoephone on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 10:37:45 PM EST
    It's dark and wrenchin, and will probably be a strong contender for and Oscar for best picture. Great writing, directing, and acting. The pacing was perfect.

    "Brooklyn" was a beautiful, quiet film, with an excellent star turn by Saoirse Ronan. And it hewed very closely to Toibin's novel (he's one of my favorite authors.) But I wouldn't necessarily call it "upbeat." It's heartbreaking in many parts of the story.

    Parent

    I Rented Four (none / 0) (#68)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 12:57:11 PM EST
    • 2015 version of the Stanford Experiment.  Jesus, how that professor was not jailed is beyond me.  Good

    • The new Vacation, surprisingly funny.  Good if you like dumb comedies, I love them.

    • The new Jurassic Park.  Not bad, not sure if the movie is better than the original, the graphics are, but it's pretty cheesy and I think a lot of holes in the story.

    • American Ultra.  I like Jesse Eisenberg and he tends to pick good roles, this one, not so much.

    • The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou was on Encore this weekend.  I could watch Wes Anderson movies all day long, but Steve Zissou is probably my favorite character, followed by Max Fisher.

    I have read one comment that hasn't ripped on Hunger Games movie, but it still racked in the cash at the box office, nearly $200 million in two weeks.  

    Parent
    Yes, the (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Zorba on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 01:57:38 PM EST
    Stanford Experiment was disgusting, unethical, and should never have been allowed.
    I have not seen the film, and I don't intend to.  It would just upset me too much, and I know my limits.
    It all went back to the Milgram experiment, which we learned about when I was a psychology major as an undergraduate.  
    I wasn't terribly thrilled about that experiment, either, since I considered it to be questionably ethical, as well.  But nowhere near as bad as the Stanford Experiment.
    OTOH, this country has funded a lot of unethical experiments.  The Tuskegee syphilis experiment (1932-1972)?  The Project MKUltra LSD experiments (1953-1973)?
    Both of which continued into the same time-frame that the Stanford Experiment began.
    Did they jail any of the people responsible for the Tuskegee or LSD experiments?
    Why no, no they didn't.  :-(

    Parent
    My only problem with those two creepy (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:45:31 AM EST
    experiments is that anyone believed they were necessary.

    Either psychologist could have strolled over to the History Department and learned pretty much the same thing about human behavior.  

    All most of us need is an excuse.

    Parent

    the interesting thing is (none / 0) (#80)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 03:16:55 PM EST
    The interesting thing is that our friends in Hungary who cane people have created several movies based on either the Milgram experiments or the Stanford experiments.  For the Milgram experiments, rather than electric shocks, an intermediary whips or canes the lady who is receiving some pain on the instructions of the person who is the unaware subject.

    one fun thing from a theological point of view is that in 1 or more of the first 3, there is a gal who is supposed to be the one who tells the intermediary to whip who feels bad about that and who then volunteers to be whipped instead of causing a seemingly hapless victim . . . (the seeming victim is actually a fully aware and consenting spanking model).  So, Christianity or Buddhism or some other something has caused some self-sacrificial humanity in some parts of Budapest . . .

    by the time of the 4th in the series, the producers now set things up or encourage the unaware subject to receive the caning . . . .

    Parent

    Seriously... (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 05:14:19 PM EST
    ...you want to an act that is used for harsh punishment to an act that some people get sexual gratification from just because the name is the same.  They are not in any way the related beyond sharing a name.

    You have serious problems and have this almost psychotic ability to turn any conversation into some quasi sexual line of BS that always seems to prove that you are not in touch with reality, in any way shape or form.

    Stop being the creepy dude that freaks people out, and please stop doing in my threads.  I don't care what you think about Hungarian whippings, nor do I care how you think it's related to a movie I saw.

    Parent

    by the way . . . (none / 0) (#89)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 05:47:39 PM EST
    At times I play chess . . . at times I watch popular movies such as Spectre and Man from UNCLE and Taken and Bridge of Spies and Phantom.  Some that I hope to see soon from the grocery redbox include selfless and also, again, the Man from UNCLE.

    I just watched the whole 10 episodes of the man in the high castle.

    My most recent watching on netflix has been Ip man: the final fight.

    Of course, I think the music vids All hands on Deck by Tinashe and Radar by Britney Spears are pretty fun. . . though some dancing in all hands on deck is vulgar . . .

    should all my activities be considered sexually motivated . . . or just the music video ones . . . or the video ones plus Taken . . . or music videos plus "Taken" plus the Milgram Experiment or

    music videos plus the Milgram Experiment but not including Taken . . .?

    "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom the emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand wrapped in awe, is as good as dead --his eyes are closed."--Einstein

    Parent

    The Stanford Experiment (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 04:44:13 PM EST
    Is a very good film.  But pretty hard to watch.  Definitely shows some scary dimensions of human nature.

    Parent
    I'm sure it is (none / 0) (#91)
    by Zorba on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 06:12:14 PM EST
    a great film, Howdy, but I know too much about this experiment and others in the same line to be able to watch it.
    At least, without hurling something large and heavy at the screen.  And I'm sure the theater would not appreciate me ripping out one of their seats and damaging their screen.   ;-)

    Parent
    Ms. Zorba, with full ,respect and regard (none / 0) (#103)
    by NYShooter on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 10:30:11 PM EST
    to your feelings, the lessons learned about peer pressure, granted powers, submission to authority, different forms of "tribalism," and how quickly & thoroughly personalities are malleable were truly frightening.

    Growing up, post German & Japanese atrocities, everyone in my circle was confronted with the question, "could it happen here?"

    The film answered that question quite emphatically.

    Parent

    Shooter, I am not (none / 0) (#123)
    by Zorba on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 09:08:09 AM EST
    planning on watching the film because I already know more than I want to know about the "experiment" and the frightening lessons it imparts.  As well as the answer to that question.  I have studied the reaction of "ordinary" people to authority for years, as well as the peer pressure, tribalism, etc.
    As Mr. Natural commented, all the experimenters had to do was go over to the History Department to find their answers.
    All seeing the film would do is to infuriate me all over again.

    Parent
    Ugh is right (none / 0) (#164)
    by jbindc on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:59:21 PM EST
    Considering how many things were wrong with the experiment, and the fact that Zimbatdo's conclusions don't actually match the reality of what happened (like in the selection bias, Zimbardo injecting himself in the experiment, more important, that the results showed that most of the guards did NOT exhibit cruel or unusual behavior, despite the meme that abounds today). I can't believe they made a movie about it, and now we're going to have a whole new generation of people believing the results of a study that just aren't valid.

    Parent
    Try seeing the movie (none / 0) (#172)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 03:26:41 PM EST
    Before reviewing it.   It covers everything you said and more.    It's an excellent film and would encourage no one to believe it was valid.   Quite the opposite.

    Parent
    Times review (none / 0) (#174)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 03:39:46 PM EST

    Fine ensemble acting brings a notorious psychological study to life in "The Stanford Prison Experiment." The research, now 44 years old, may today seem as if it merely confirmed the obvious, but the film, by Kyle Patrick Alvarez, certainly makes you feel the claustrophobic intensity of what went on.

    The film is about a 1971 study done by a Stanford University professor, Philip Zimbardo, in which students were recruited to play either guards or inmates in a make-believe prison. Guess what? People put in positions of authority, like prison guards, sometimes abuse that authority, and in startlingly cruel ways.

    Billy Crudup, playing Dr. Zimbardo, is the most recognizable name in the cast, and he does nice work portraying a man who, as the experiment spirals out of control, is torn between protecting the students and protecting his research. But it's the young actors playing the students who really make an impression.

    Michael Angarano is downright terrifying as a guard who patterns his behavior after a particularly nasty character in the prison movie "Cool Hand Luke," which had come out in 1967. The students playing prisoners adopt attitudes ranging from rebellious to meek, but none are immune to the brutal treatment of their overseers.

    The experiment's methodologies and meanings have been analyzed endlessly over the years, and the film doesn't delve deeply into these interpretations and critiques. It doesn't need to; this stark and riveting version of events speaks for itself



    Parent
    Agreed Howdy... (none / 0) (#190)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 05:51:17 PM EST
    ...I even mentioned something about the professor not going to jail.  I also think it's odd that JB believes something about what a whole generation will believe w/o knowing what they would view.

    I wouldn't imagine anyone who has saw the movie would think anything but the professor put his ambitions above student's welfare, but that isn't exactly some revelation.

    Parent

    I think it odd (none / 0) (#202)
    by jbindc on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 05:09:49 AM EST
    That so many people here think the Stanford Prison experiment was valid science and keep repeating the conclusions that putting people in positions of authority (especially in a prison or law enforcement settings) makes most people act abusively, when in fact, the study showed exactly the opposite.

    Parent
    The problem isn't so much (none / 0) (#176)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 03:56:55 PM EST
    that "most" cops and guards act out in thuggish, sadistic ways, but that so many of them cover for those that do -- which, whether you like it or not, is a passive sanctioning and rewarding of the brutal behavior.

    Parent
    Same for cops (none / 0) (#177)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 03:59:35 PM EST
    I'm a big fan of dumb comedies. (none / 0) (#110)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 03:27:56 AM EST
    In particular, I have an affinity for old Chevy Chase movies like "National Lampoon's Vacation" and "Funny Farm." There's something about that guy that just makes me laugh.

    And prior to bursting on the scene in 1975 with his TV debut as one of SNL's original Not Ready for Prime Time Players, Chevy made a quick but memorable 30-sec. splash in the 1974 big-screen sketch comedy "The Groove Tube," appearing in a very pointed put-down of Geritol's sexist 1970s-era TV commercials that even co-opted its signature but demeaning tag line, "My wife, I think I'll keep her!" It's probably not something you'll want to open and view at work.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I am hoarding popcorn (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 09:14:45 AM EST
    For Christie vs Trump

    Christie won't last long enough (none / 0) (#43)
    by CoralGables on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:00:46 AM EST
    for you to need to hoard any popcorn.

    Parent
    You have never seen me eat (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:25:47 AM EST
    He is definitely having a moment.    Mourning Jie today was the Chrus Christie Show.

    I agree with you in general.   Still, it could be way fun to watch.

    Parent

    Christie (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:30:59 AM EST
    is a target rich environment for Trump. IMO he's going to have a grand time with him.

    Parent
    And vice versa (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:55:10 AM EST
    Heh (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 04:39:03 PM EST
    Christie might just do very well (none / 0) (#111)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 06:10:48 AM EST
    A very accomplished retail politician, will sit and talk with anyone, on any topic at Town Halls for hours
    Completely authentic, as opposed to many politicians.
    He may surprise, he still is my sleeper pick.

    Nice endorsement he received from the NH press also

    Parent

    Question (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:14:38 AM EST
    A very accomplished retail politician, will sit and talk with anyone, on any topic at Town Halls for hours

    Why doesn't the overwhelming stench of corruption that accompanies him bother you?

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#185)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 05:14:48 PM EST
    I don't see what you do

    Some staffers abused their authority with cheap political payback,

    I do not see corruption

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#113)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:15:40 AM EST
    he'll probably do okay in NH maybe but he screams and yells at voters. The voters in the south detest him. Heck, his own constituents detest him. He's the Bobby Jindal of the north.

    Parent
    I'm watching the (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:31:36 AM EST
    Standard Donald Trump opening segment of Mourning Joe.

    It's hilarious that the main stream media, they are quoting J. Martin NYTimes piece being much discussed, is starting to say the same thing you and I have been saying for months.  Donald is probably going to be the nominee and if he is not only will they lose the WH but the will lose the Senate and many seats if not control of the house.    In the article in response to Martins question of what a Trumo candidacy would mean one GOP official sent a link to the WIKI page about the 1964 congressional elections.

    Parent

    This (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:36:44 AM EST
    WIKI page

    The U.S. House election, 1964 was an election for the United States House of Representatives in 1964 which coincided with the election of President Lyndon Johnson. Johnson's landslide victory over Barry Goldwater allowed his Democratic Party to gain a net of 36 seats from the Republican Party, giving them a two-thirds majority in the House. This is the largest House majority held by either party since 1936. The election also marked the first time since Reconstruction that Republicans made inroads in the deep South.



    Parent
    They are even talking about (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:42:43 AM EST
    Losing state and local elections because of the tidal wave of opposition Donald would inspire.

    Popcorn, please.

    Parent

    Here's a link (none / 0) (#126)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 09:35:31 AM EST
    to that Times piece

    Most interesting graph-

    And some Republicans repelled by Mr. Trump feel little urgency to attack him because, they say, he is preventing what they see as an even less desirable standard-bearer -- Senator Ted Cruz of Texas -- from consolidating the votes of hard-line conservatives.

    "He's keeping Cruz where he is," Scott Reed, a veteran Republican strategist, said of Mr. Trump.



    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#127)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 10:00:00 AM EST
    I can see Cruz being worse however at this point they've all pretty much become Trump. Nary a one of them seems to be able to stand up to him. The truth of the matter is Trump is saying exactly what the GOP base wants to hear. So pretty much standing up to him and calling him out is a losing proposition.

    Parent
    Today in Donald (none / 0) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:01:49 AM EST
    He plans to defeat ISIS by killing their families.

    Not making this up.

    Parent

    Oy! (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by Zorba on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:37:45 AM EST
    I sometimes wonder if Donald actually believes even half the things he says, or if he's just saying those things because it fires up the base and will get him the nomination.
    If he believes that sh!t, then he's a nasty bigot and a poor excuse for a " human being." If he doesn't believe it, then he's the worst kind of cynical political whor*, saying whatever he needs to say to get votes.
    Either way, I wouldn't want him elected to be the city dog-catcher, much less President.

    Parent
    He says them because he has a (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by Anne on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 12:00:14 PM EST
     pathological need to always be "on top," and it doesn't matter if the things he has to say or propose are completely wacko/racist/misogynistic/belittling/fascist.

    He is that person who will literally say anything.  I don't think he cares one whit about the base; his main mission in life is to constantly, continuously, vigilantly, feed his insatiable ego, the ego that will not allow him ever to take what he sees as a back seat to anyone.

    digby posted this quote yesterday:

    His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.

    Where is it from?  

    That was an assessment of Adolph Hitler by the United States Office of Strategic Services.

    Am I the only one who has noticed that the media seems to like showing Trump now with one arm raised in a - dare I say it? - rather Hitlerian position?

    Parent

    that paragraph (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:11:36 PM EST
    could describe more than just Donald Trump. It could describe some of the conservatives that post here. It could describe George W. Bush. It could describe most of the GOP candidates for President. People don't seem to understand that Donald is a symptom not the disease. The only thing Donald does that is different is he says it loud and proud.

    Parent
    Doesn't say anything very good (none / 0) (#147)
    by Zorba on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 12:45:21 PM EST
    about Trump's rabid supporters, does it?
    They are supporting and enabling a man with an enormous ego, who will do and say anything to stay on top and in the news.
    Sadly, I even have a couple of older, Democratic friends (not liberals by any means, but previously reliable Dem voters) who are supporting "Der Trumpenfuhrer."

    Parent
    I sometimes wonder (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:43:50 AM EST
    If Donald has his own version of the coffee klatch of crazy old racist white men who gather at the local diner most mornings.   I hear them say crazy stuff, really crazy stuff, then the next day I hear Donakd say the same thing in a stump speech.

    I swear I've heard killing their families at the diner.

    Parent

    Well, gee, Howdy (none / 0) (#146)
    by Zorba on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 12:13:51 PM EST
    It makes me feel so much better that Donald appears to be taking political advice from a bunch of "crazy old racist white men."  Not.   :-(

    Parent
    After posting that comment (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:11:02 PM EST
    I was thinking that coffee klatch is probably the Internet.  I expect he, or his minions, comb the craziest right wing sites, find out what they are saying and repeat it back to them.

    Parent
    Not surprised (none / 0) (#141)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:37:58 AM EST
    to hear that. Of course that kind of statement will endear him to the GOP base. You gotta give it to Trump. He knows exactly what the GOP base wants and he's giving it to them.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#186)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 05:18:11 PM EST
    If you have watched his town halls in New Hampshire, he speaks candidly with those in attendance,
    He tells them, you may agree with some of what I say, and disagree with other things I say,
    But you will know I will not patronize you,
    That I say what I believe.
    A contrast with most politicians.

    And , the only times he has yelled at voters, is where someone tried to take over a event for their own purposes.

    Christie is still my sleeper pick

    Parent

    Read (none / 0) (#192)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 06:43:40 PM EST
    the NJ Star Ledger. Christie is an opposition researchers dream candidate. You have to remember Romney was considering him for VP but found something that disqualified him for that position. There's something there but we don't know what it is yet apparently 'cause Romney is not talking other than to say there was a red flag that came up on Christie.

    However, considering the desperate straits the GOP currently finds itself in I would not be surprised to find that some in the GOP establishment are pushing him. We already know Jeb is a miserable candidate but there must be something on Rubio too if Christie is being pushed in front out in front of him.

    Parent

    Yea (none / 0) (#193)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 07:01:25 PM EST
    I think it was the Obama hug, lol

    Same story was circulated about Rubio having red flags, and debunked.

    There are numerous political campaigns vying for the Republican nomination, so "stories" are apt to be thrown around.

    Christie has been governor for 7 years, He is a outstanding contrast to Hillary, he is a talented retail politician, but he still has a long road to climb.


    Parent

    Rubio's (none / 0) (#195)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:28:29 PM EST
    problems have not been debunked and unfortunately are facts like him mishandling the funds of the FL GOP and he himself has come right out and said women should be birthing slaves for criminals. Rubio's real problem is he is quoting Obama circa 2008 verbatim.

    I don't think the Obama "hug" would have disqualified Christie. That is something that is known.

    If he's so talented why do the people in his state hate him so much? I don't think even Romney was hated by his constituents as much as Christie is. Hillary would have a field day with Christie. Your statements are why the GOP believes they are going to lose in 2016. No way Christie could have stood there for 11 hours responding to crazy conspiracy theories. He would have had a meltdown and started shouting. He's a ticking time bomb just waiting to go off.

    Parent

    Oh well (none / 0) (#196)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:50:38 PM EST
    Yet, in an email to POLITICO, Beth Myers, a longtime Romney political adviser who in 2012 oversaw his vice presidential search, pushed back on the assertion.
    "As the senior Romney advisor who handled VP vetting and had access to all the vetting documents, I can say that Senator Rubio 'passed' our vetting and we found nothing that disqualified him from serving as VP," wrote Myers, who counts herself a Bush supporter. "The Bush aide referred to in this article is simply wrong."

    Both Rubio and Christie would make for a dynamic contrast with Hillary, most likely either of these two are the matchup the Republicans want

    Parent

    She's (none / 0) (#197)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 09:16:53 PM EST
    saying she found nothing on Rubio not Christie. Christie is the one that had a red flag. Apparently mishandling funds of the FL GOP aren't disqualifying for a VP spot. I mean Rubio was caught red handed and made to pay back the funds. He wasn't the only one though in the GOP mishandling the funds.

    Alrighty. Hillary can take apart Rubio too. He's easy pickings. And how is the GOP going to put up someone like Rubio after screaming about Obama not having enough experience. Roll the tape about what they said about Obama and insert Rubio's name. It'll make for great comedy!

    Parent

    Lol (none / 0) (#198)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 09:47:04 PM EST
    Rubio is using the Obama playbook, except he has far more  experience than Obama at his stage of his career.

    Rubio was a Florida Legislature leader, not a back bencher like Obama who voted present.

    And Rubio has more time in the Senate than Obama had.

    Not too worried, and being that Obama was elected, Democrats cannot use inexperience against Rubio, he has more than Obama had when elected.

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 10:14:13 PM EST
    Rubio does not have "far more experience" He has not completed one term in the senate much like Obama. There's a reason why the Union Leader in NH trashed him on that account.

    Florida has term limits so unqualified people like Rubio are given leadership spots. He was only in the senate for two years and given one. Perhaps he was the "leader" on that odious scarlet letter legislation Jeb had.

    Rubio was elected to the senate in 2010. Obama was elected to the senate in 2004. That's months difference not "a lot". Besides Rubio doesn't even show up for work so I'm not sure you could even count a whole year. Do you think not showing up for work counts as "experience"? It seems like you do.

    No the irony is that the GOP has said Obama's experience is a problem and with Rubio they would have eat their words. They would look like a bunch of fools. Never fear. He's easy pickings for Hillary to take apart. And the GOP base doesn't like him either it seems.

    Parent

    Lol (none / 0) (#203)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 05:38:36 AM EST
    You mean this shot at Rubio?
    Lol,

    The editorial also goes on to say that, "We don't need another fast-talking, well-meaning freshman U.S. senator trying to run the government. We are still seeing the disastrous effects of the last such choice."

    Seems more like a shot at Obama.

    Parent

    And monkeys (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:24:36 AM EST
    Might fly out of my butt.

    Parent
    rosa parks bus day (none / 0) (#40)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 09:36:13 AM EST
    today in history 1955 rosa parks was arrested for not giving up her bus seat.  Not long afterwards, the SCOTUS ruled that segregation in bus seating was not constitutional.

    I recommend you read (5.00 / 5) (#44)
    by jbindc on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:06:07 AM EST
    At the Dark End of the Street by Danielle L. McGuire

    Rosa Parks was often described as a sweet and reticent elderly woman whose tired feet caused her to defy segregation on Montgomery's city buses, and whose supposedly solitary, spontaneous act sparked the 1955 bus boycott that gave birth to the civil rights movement.

    The truth of who Rosa Parks was and what really lay beneath the 1955 boycott is far different from anything previously written.

    In this groundbreaking and important book, Danielle McGuire writes about the rape in 1944 of a twenty-four-year-old mother and sharecropper, Recy Taylor, who strolled toward home after an evening of singing and praying at the Rock Hill Holiness Church in Abbeville, Alabama. Seven white men, armed with knives and shotguns, ordered the young woman into their green Chevrolet, raped her, and left her for dead. The president of the local NAACP branch office sent his best investigator and organizer to Abbeville. Her name was Rosa Parks. In taking on this case, Parks launched a movement that ultimately changed the world.

    The author gives us the never-before-told history of how the civil rights movement began; how it was in part started in protest against the ritualistic rape of black women by white men who used economic intimidation, sexual violence, and terror to derail the freedom movement; and how those forces persisted unpunished throughout the Jim Crow era when white men assaulted black women to enforce rules of racial and economic hierarchy. Black women's protests against sexual assault and interracial rape fueled civil rights campaigns throughout the South that began during World War II and went through to the Black Power movement. The Montgomery bus boycott was the baptism, not the birth, of that struggle.



    Parent
    Aw, jb (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by sj on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 02:08:40 PM EST
    I know you meant well, but supplying this particular commenter with an opportunity to fantasize about rape might not be what you intended.

    Parent
    thanks (none / 0) (#54)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 11:57:51 AM EST
    thanks; how interesting!

    Parent
    Anyone still watching the Good Wife? (none / 0) (#100)
    by McBain on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 09:44:30 PM EST
    I thought I was done after last season but I can't seem to kick the habit.  It's hard to keep up with who's at what firm now.  "Lockhart, Agos and Lee"?...what happened to "Florick and Agos"?

    At least there's a flicker of chemistry between Alicia and Jason Krouse.  There was zero with the campaign dude from last season. The show has really struggled in that aspect since the death of Will Gardner.

    I'm not sure if I'm supposed to root for Alicia to build a bigger practice or to become the first lady?  

    clinton's syria plan (none / 0) (#125)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 09:24:47 AM EST
    Clinton's plan for Syria appears to include, as the major part of the plan, the creation of a no-fly zone in northern Syria.  Rubio's plan also does, if I recall correctly.

    To create that, she would be risking war with Syria, Russia or both.  Some of the military who have discussed the topic say that creation of a no-fly zone would require putting "boots on the ground."

    Clinton claims that creation of a no-fly zone would increase the pressure on Assad to have a diplomatic solution.  

    However, a large chunk of Syria is controlled by ISIS and another large chunk is controlled by Al-Nusra the affiliate of Al-Qaeda.  A no-fly zone in the north would make it much harder to control the border with Turkey which is alleged to be permitting oil trading and terrorist passage.

    Obama, acknowledging the rift with Clinton over Syria at a news conference this month, complained that critics of his policy on Syria are merely tossing out "half-baked ideas."

    But when asked if he was referring to Clinton, the president tried to qualify his remarks while making clear he believed there was a difference between campaign trail rhetoric and the responsibilities of the presidency.

    "Hillary Clinton is not half-baked in terms of her approach to these problems," Obama said.

    Hillary is in Orlando (none / 0) (#148)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 12:51:08 PM EST
    and I am missing it...dang!

    In other news, they euthanized a 9 ft anaconda.

    Why (none / 0) (#149)
    by Zorba on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    did they euthanize the anaconda?

    Parent
    Why? (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by kdog on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:20:10 PM EST
    To get it to the other side. yuk yuk yuk;)

    Parent
    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 05:23:43 PM EST
    I believe Florida now has a annual python hunt in the everglades, the Everglades is a perfect breeding , feeding ground for the large pythons (up to 20 feet) and anaconda that may now be there.

    The state of Florida is set to open its second Python Challenge, which is a public hunt in the Everglades that aims to kill off as many of the invasive snakes as possible.

    The first Burmese python hunt was held in 2013 and attracted almost 1,600 participants. According to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, one of the organizers of the challenge, 68 snakes were removed from swamp ecosystem.

    The four week hunt is scheduled for January of 2016, and will award cash prizes to participants who collect the most snakes the longest snake. It costs $25.00 to register and participants must complete an online course.

    Parent

    It is a non-native species (none / 0) (#154)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:15:36 PM EST
    "considered dangerous to the ecology and/or health and welfare of the people of Florida"

    Parent
    Another fine example of (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by CoralGables on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:19:39 PM EST
    global warming in Florida...heat, tides, and very large snakes.

    Parent
    Your problem with large snakes ... (none / 0) (#160)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:33:35 PM EST
    ... has nothing to do with global warming, and everything to do with the often illicit global trade in exotic species. Suffice to say that adorable baby python you bought at the annual pet show in Miami becomes a lot less adorable, once it reaches six feet or so in length and starts sizing up your Pomeranian as a prospective meal.

    Parent
    I take your meaning (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:46:08 PM EST
    But I suspect the Venn diagram overlap of Python and Pomerania owners is pretty small.

    Parent
    You're right and wrong (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by CoralGables on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 02:35:45 PM EST
    that is where the snakes originate, but we used to have temps that dipped into the low 30's on occasion during a South Florida winter knocking out most of the invasive species of animals and plants. Not any more, not so much as a morning frost in many years.

    Parent
    Ah. (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Zorba on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 01:29:16 PM EST
    I can see that.  I assume that this was another example of some idiot who bought a snake when it was much smaller, and when it got too big to handle, or they got bored with it, just released it to the wild, where it bred with others that were released.

    Parent
    Couldn't it have been released ... (none / 0) (#168)
    by sj on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 02:25:03 PM EST
    ... into its own natural habitat?

    Parent
    I believe that they are (none / 0) (#181)
    by Zorba on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 04:52:05 PM EST
    South American in origin.  I doubt that they would fly the snake back to South America.


    Parent
    ah... (none / 0) (#182)
    by sj on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 04:56:33 PM EST
    Oscar Pistorius ruled guilty of murder (none / 0) (#201)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 03:02:12 AM EST
    Appeals Court overturns earlier manslaughter conviction

    So Judge Lorimer Leach at the Supreme Court of Appeal in Bloemfontein has said that in the interest of justice, the manslaughter conviction of Oscar Pistorius for killing his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp must be set aside and replaced with the correct conviction - murder.

    Under South African law, murder has a minimum sentence of 15 years.

    However, experts say that a judge can exercise discretion if there are compelling reasons to do so.

    Pistorius is currently under house arrest, staying at his uncle's home in Pretoria.

    He was transferred there in October after serving one year of his five-year sentence for manslaughter, also known as culpable homicide.

    He is likely to be re-sentenced in the New Year by his original trial judge Thokozile Masipa.

    You know what that means, folks!  You can call the murderer a murderer.